Is PBH a slander on Colombia and Colombians?

kernow62 says on Jul 4, 2005, 13:24:

Stick to latex and cucumbers!

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adrimm says on Jul 4, 2005, 13:33:

Perhaps This is why there is a distinct shortage of Colombians posting here.

I don't blame them if this is the case, and in the last few weeks I've found myself sometimes wondering what on earth I come here for. Maybe JamesVH was correct in bidding us adieu.

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quindioman says on Jul 4, 2005, 14:16:

the people that portray these wrong stereotypes are the ones that stink...not this site...the majority of posters are on point....don't let the few bad apples win....you guys have an amazing little forum going on here....keep it up!!!

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MacGringo says on Jul 4, 2005, 14:35:

I agree with you there cockney,on all points, this forum has been a good source of info for me.
Keep it coming!

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Peter (Moderator) says on Jul 4, 2005, 16:44:

Any post like that should be deleted. But we as moderators are sometimes too busy... unfortunately. If you want to volunteer to be a moderator, we'll definitely consider it. Or just let us know about these pages and they'll be deleted.

Poor but snappy

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silviat says on Jul 4, 2005, 16:53:

agree with cockney & mcgringo I personally hate the people who writes mean posts about colombian women, or colombian people in general.

But even thought I hate it when I see things like that, that is just every once in a while, and I have to say pbh is a really good invention.

I personally love that here I can see how some foreigners do really love this country, more than many colombians do.

So yes sometimes there are jerks that write bad things here, but thats their individual fault, not the forums fault.

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Sylvie says on Jul 4, 2005, 17:24:

hmmm I'll play devil's advocate.

Sterotypes exist for a reason. They don't just formulate on the basis of one person's observations.

Although some people on this site have what I call huge internet balls. That is when cowards grow balls and state their opinions of people using harsh words while they are sitting safely behind their pc. If they were to express the same opinion to someone's face they would typically have their balls fed to them after getting the shit beaten out of them.

On that note. Take this site for what it is worth. UC, you are an adult and if you think this site stinks then maybe you could stop yourself from reading and posting on said site.

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caslug says on Jul 4, 2005, 17:43:

the heated discussion are not bad.. what IS BAD is the lack of civility. Poster sometimes make personal attack on other poster instead of stating point of view in a objective way. There is NO right or wrong answer to somethings, no one is keeping score, that is why i don't understand when people let things get to them. You believe what you believe, but give the other person the courtesy of their views. If we state or own experiences or observation then that is valid, people's observation are always skewed due of their unique personal experiences, but that does not make it any less valid. So why attack it. Simply say,"here's what I saw or think"..The KEY "I", your own Personal POV. But sometimes people lose it and start ranting that their way is the ONLY way to think..

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Gomezman5 says on Jul 4, 2005, 19:38:

Caslug has a point.. More censoring...really? More hypocracy ! I realize that this is a private forum and on the whole, it allows people to pontificate or comment as they choose to do so. But if more censorship is needed, it is needed along the lines Caslug suggests. The problem of people taking personal shots at each other, of which I myself have been a target of, because I represent the minority and conservative view, goes completely unsanctioned.

Tinto, I suggest that you might want to censor those who attack the minority opinion personally. More often than not, I am attacked personally because what of what I say. I guess to should be flattered in some sense because I was told a long time ago that those who attack you personally, only do so because they either lack the intellectual capacity to debate you on a personal level, or your argument is so compelling they have nothing substantively to challenge you with. Either way, the personal attacks have gotten worse. That explains my infrequent participation these days. Therefore, Peter, Tinto and Lionheart, if I were you guys, I would worry more about you scaring off people with differing opinions, than I would worry about a sexist remark or generalization about Colombian women. What kind of forum will this be if everyone gets on here everyday and sings praises to Colombia and does not mention what some perceive to be some of its shortcomings. Do you want to make this web site an extension of Colombia's Department of Tourism?

Tinto, this is a big world where everyone has a lot of opinions. There negative stereo types about Colombian women are indeed sad. But so what? So a few, a distinct minority I may add, (despite what UC states) are creators or perpetrators of such language. Big deal. Ignore them. I am a Colombian born American and to this day, I get comments about drugs, and mafias, and all the rest. In American society, I NEVER hear people talking about loose Colombian woman, but I hear people remarking almost daily about the traditional negative stereotypes of the Colombian people. What do I do? I ignore it. Forget about it.

I will say one thing however, our Colombian woman by and large are some of the most sexy and sensual women in the world. Who can debate that. At the same time, Colombia is near the top of the list of Latin American dating sites where Colombian women look for a way out of Colombia by marrying a person from a world they know little or nothing about. You don't believe me??? Go Google 2 words: "Colombian women" and see what comes up. Dating, dating, and more dating sites. My point is that some of that dating and sexy nonsense is going to spill over into this site whether you like it or not. I don't know about you Tinto, but I sure get a lot of PM's from people who have talked about their exploits and conquests while in Colombia and some of you guys would be amazed which of your fellow PBH members are sending me these messages.

UC, you are right. It is hurtful and sad. But, you are also married to a Colombian lady so that also makes you a bit more sensitive to the comments. Am I right or wrong? My suggestion: Ignore them.

I am not a fan of censorship. But if you are going to censor, than enforce the rules as they exist. In that respect, I think the moderation department is asleep when I get called an idiot, stupid, "a lawyer who got his license in a Cracker Jack box,” etc. etc. Sound familiar Tinto? It should. Those are personal attacks. Those are violations of the rules that are far more serious than generalizations about a group of people. So I ask, if you can't enforce the rules as they already exist, than from what realm do you think that you should start censoring people who make mere, albeit hurtful generalizations about Colombian women? A generalization about Colombian women, is not per se, a violation of the rules unless they use such insulting words that clearly on its face can be considered insulting. So be careful as to what you consider insulting. If you delete a post because someone says Colombian women are easy, and you allow a personal attack when someone is called an idiot, I would not only call that censorship, but I would also say that is not very good moderations but in fact I would call that selective enforcement and that does not sound very fair to me. Does it?

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caslug says on Jul 4, 2005, 20:08:

GMAN..u r WRONG about why poster attack you.. It has nothing you being a conservative, etc., It's because you're a LAWYER..NO one likes lawyers, LOL! j/k.. But there's more lawyer jokes than salesman jokes... ;-)

Notice other guy that caused alot of grief lately is suipacha(lawyer in waiting).. between you guys spouting prenups, contracts, etc., this site is NO LONGER about POORBUTHAPPY.. no longer about romance, love, sacrafice, paradise, it's become about backgruond checks, prenup, self interest, safety! Let's get back to that period before the lawyers, when the view of COL on this board was shangri-la, land the entranal pleasure and youth, because the people are friendly and hosptitapal, everyone was a virgin till marriage, everyone stayed faithul, and there was no danger at all.. What happen to that world?

So to hopefully bring that back, I'm all for banning lawyers! But then what about those pesky engineers? They sometime make damn logical, factual arugements that also ain't very romantic.

As for dating or no dating..Dating is the one thing that you can still do when POOR and you'll be HAPPY. So why not about to talk about? (devil's advocated) Afterall, most foreigner on this site have date, is dating, or married to COL men or women. So their exp in COL certainly including dating, yet now we want to bann the subject.. Which can't be done because peopel always find loophole to post subject..where is a good place to party in XYZ city? Isn't this a dating related questions or what? Or how about the visa forum, most questions there are about bring someone' fiance or spouse that they met and DATE in COL.

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Gomezman5 says on Jul 4, 2005, 20:29:

Well.....you can dislike lawyers all you want..but When you need one, you still have to call upon us to handle the trouble you get yourselves into....(whether you intended to get into that trouble or not)

As to the dating stuff. Who cares? Look sexuality and obsession with sex is a part of this world. And I can think of no better place is it typified than in Colombia.

My only beef is that the ussual crew of complainers are obsessed when someone makes a generalization about women, whether it be Colombian women or others, but when personal attacks are made, something that is a direct violation of the rules, they sit in silence....(like uh duh???) Hey, by the way, if you guys can make generlizations about lawyers, then they should be able to make generalizaions about any other group of people........that includes women.

The funny part about it all is, that there is one moderator who did violate the rules, and did make an attack on me as to how/where I obtained my law license. Guess what? He never sanctioned himself. Nor did he apologize. And this is the person that is worrying about comments made about women as a group. I think it's called hypocracy.

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caslug says on Jul 4, 2005, 20:47:

What i find funny is that.. while everyone foreign & col alike have NO PROBLEM talking about the "virtues" of COL men/women. BUT you can't talk about DATING them, just how nice, sweet, romantic, easy-on-the eyes, but don't ask how to date them. I think MOST dating related questions or issues are NOT unique to COL, or even Latin culture. Only very few issues are cultural difference. Yet we have people asking "relationship" question in the guise of "COL" related. The only thing "related" is one of the subject is COL. NO one post questions Dating questions on NON-COL, ie, where to find educated, attractive girl in the (substitute USA for COL), do (substitute US for COL) women cheat? questions like apply to anywhere not COL specific, etc.,

Why not create a seperate forum for "relationship questios". It's been brought before. At least this way, people that have dating questions(good AND stupid) can post in that area while the rest of the folks that don't need to read it..DONT read it. We have that Visa forum, o spanish forum. Notice people that don't need visa or can't speak spanish, don't go to those forum. One benefit of doing this is to make PBH a one stop info provide for COL related questions, from hotels, politics, tourist, etc.,

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Gomezman5 says on Jul 4, 2005, 21:00:

Caslug....You are %100 CORRECT!! And guess what? The moderators know this. Peter, Lionheart, and Tinto are all very intelligent individuals. I especially agree with your assertion about how people often speak or ask questions using "coded" words for fear of violating the rules. Tinto knows it and he dare not deny it. He is too sharp and has too much common sense to pretend that would you describe does not happen here.

Caslug, your point(s) are good ones

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kernow62 says on Jul 4, 2005, 21:16:

Damn G5 I missed where Tinto said you got your license to practice in a Cracker Jack box. Did a search and it still didn't show up, maybe it was deleted by a moderator. ;-)

Perhaps he meant to say you are a Cracker Jack lawyer, which is I am lead to believe some sort of American compliment.

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Gomezman5 says on Jul 4, 2005, 21:33:

I knew you would be lurking out there somewhere Kernow. You just see my name, and you get orgasmic at the thought that you get a chance to rattle my cage...

By the way, I didn't say who made the Cracker Jack comment. It may or may not have been him. But I remembered that he pariticipated in a thread where that remark came up. I did Google it and I can't locate it anymore. The only reference I can find is where it was suggested that taxi driver got his license in a cracker jack box.

Nevertheless, I remembered the comment. Hmmmm somehow it did get editited out. Interesting....

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caslug says on Jul 4, 2005, 22:20:

Hey GMAN.. since u r a lawyer.. Why don't you volunteer to draft/write a T&C(term/condition) for being a member of PBH. All existing and NEW member MUST sign(digital sig) the T&C to have posting privilages. Maybe in the terms you have something where the following words are banned "dating", "cracker jack", "cheating", "prenup", "hos", etc., And we have to be civil, no swearing, no calling anyone name, and other code of conduct. Anyone using the above words and violating the code of conduct will have their posting privilages susupend for x days. Repeat posters are banned. If you need help, get suipacha and may UC(he's an ex lawyer) to volunteer their time in writing this up.

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Gomezman5 says on Jul 4, 2005, 22:45:

Ex lawyer ?? That is one concept I don't quite understand. The only people that are ex-lawyers are people that are disbarred, and I can't imagine something like that happening to UC. I think he is a lawyer that simply has elected not to practice law.

But you know what? Once a lawyer, always a lawyer. Lawyers develop a form of thinking that never escapes them. When you "think like a lawyer" you think like a lawyer in your every day affairs, not just when you practice law. In other words you can take UC out of lawyering, but you can't take the lawyer out of UC.

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Miguel says on Jul 4, 2005, 22:51:

PBH I have learned much from this site and appreciate Peter's project and many of the posters' input. You take the good with the bad.
And "lleno de mentiras"? Hardly.

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Condorlisa Arroz says on Jul 4, 2005, 22:51:

Thats also my impression. The PBH forum is slowly developing into a slander, defamation, talk bad about Colombia forum and a talk good about the USA forum. CA Montañas de Colombia

CA Montañas de Colombia

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Sylvie says on Jul 4, 2005, 23:11:

Condorlisa Arroz I think the USA gets made fun of enough these days. Let them have their glory on PHB :-P


hehehehehehehe

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Albatross says on Jul 5, 2005, 06:44:

Legalese The idea of members signing up to a "terms of use" agreement is redundant, we already agree to abide by the rules simply by posting here.

Maybe I missed something, but I don’t remember any recent comments “along the lines of all Colombianas are whores who'll sleep with anyone and the majority of Colombians live together without being married” and I don’t see this site as being anti-Colombiana in any way. I think it’s more a case of PC police attempts to restrict dialogue or as G5 said, “the usual crew of complainers (who) are obsessed when someone makes a generalization about women...”.

But of course, these same people have no problem calling men who visit Colombia to meet women "scumbag losers" or whatever other epithet they can drag up.

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

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Gomezman5 says on Jul 5, 2005, 07:17:

Very astute observations Albatross-you are correct Scumbags, drooling at women in Chipi Chapi, sleazy, etc. If you are single man going to Colombia, and you don't have family there, God forbid you go alone. A few women, (I will not name them..but you moderatores know who) love to assume that just because a man or men go to Colombia, and they happen to be alone, they are to be looked at as the lowest of the lowest.

Where are the moderators then? Like I said abouve. Hypocracy is a practice that is perpetrated all too well here. Defend and protect the women at all costs, and if a crack is made about a man, you will never see Tinto or Lionheart jump in on their behalf.

And you are also right about the rules observation. The moderators don't enforce the plain and easy to understand rules they have now about personal attacks. And they want to make more rules and have greater enforcemnet?? That is funny. Unless the personal attacks that have come my way aren't really personal attacks. That is probably true just because I have views on a forum that is filled with liberals, that happens to be contrary to the views of their own.

More rules, more enforcement, more moderation......but please only against those views we disagree with. As to the rules against personal attacks.....oh forget it, it's not a rule, it's just a standard to aspire to.

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 5, 2005, 08:35:

*yawn*zzzzzzzz

Hi G5 and Kernow How are you today :-)

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bufalo says on Jul 5, 2005, 10:10:

Like people said before, this site has a lot to do with opinions. I try very carefully to put in disclaimers and say that something has been MY experience everytime I say something that is say, "negative" about Colombia. what i don´t get is how people see the "negative" as rascism or stereotyping, but not the "positive". For instance, and these are not my views, just things I have read off this site, I have seen people say that colombianas are some of the most beautiful, sensual, sexy, attractive... women in the world. This is as mucha generalization as saying colombianas like to cheat on their husbands. The only difference is that one statement is "positive" and one is "negative". What would be the point of this site if people only gave galzed over "positive" postings? I´v e seen some "negative" postings that I agree with, it´s just that I´ve seen them worded in an offensive manner, maybe care should be taken in that. If people wouldn´t be so picky sometimes, I think things would be better. Heck, the NAME of this site is a generalization. POOR BUT HAPPY (now this is sarcasm people), What´s Peter trying to say, ALL Colombians are poor campesinos that are so stupid that they don´t relize the situation that they are in and are in a mind-numb way HAPPY? Is he trying to say that there are no RICH well-off, educated colombians? Of couse not (I hope anyway). It´s just a freaking name, but I think this example might have helped my point. Now I have to go and buy a platano to go with the soup for lunch.

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

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Gomezman5 says on Jul 5, 2005, 10:40:

Hello Ms. Kitty Kat I am fine and .... I am hard at work in my office. However I do have moments where I go check out things around here. Anyway, I hope you are ok.

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adrimm says on Jul 5, 2005, 10:43:

bufalo Peter is not necc. referring to Colombia in the site title.

Back in 1997/98 this site began as a way for him to share his experiences as an english teacher in Colombia. There was no forum, just a collection of text divided into different subcategories, along with some photos.

Considering he was probably earning significantly less than a teacher in Belgium would the title could refer to his own situation at the time.

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Peter (Moderator) says on Jul 5, 2005, 16:38:

adrimm, you're right, the name "poorbuthappy" was referring to me in that time, not to Colombia.

As for the girl threads, I think I've deleted all of them. If you find a thread that is about dating, it is against the rules. Just let me know and I'll delete it. Nothing wrong with dating, but this site is not the place for that discussion.

Poor but snappy

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Rubiazo says on Jul 6, 2005, 03:56:

Just to point out There is no rule agaisnt swearing in this forum that I've ever heard of. I'm aware that it offends people but frankly they can take a flying fuck at a rolling donut, :PPP

There also is no rule against being tangential at times or talking about subject matter others find offensive. If G5 is correct and the forum is full of liberals, there are some pretty puritanical liberals in this forum.

The only thing that pisses me off is all the bad rhetoric and when people go ad hominem. But I don't think deleting threads or banning people is necessarily the answer either.

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Albatross says on Jul 6, 2005, 12:26:

. It seems to me that discussions of dating as a natural part of life aren't discouraged, but forums of the more artificial; "Lookin' for Luv" or "Where's the best place to score" type are generally limited.

Why they let Widower run on, I don't know...

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

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go2pr says on Jul 6, 2005, 12:26:

Amazing how you 'mods' "If you find a thread that is about dating, it is against the rules."


Amazing.

Amazing how you 'mods' feel the need to delete threads where discussions about Colombian women are unbiased and adult and NEVER delete the COUNTLESS ridiculous threads or posts, like the recent 'Pereira capital of gorgious girls' (http://poorbuthappy.com/colombia/node/10771), where some of the most prolifics posters of this board, in their silly and childish need to promote Colombia, stupidly alimentate the enticing (and unjustified) myth of "the Colombian girls being the most beautiful, easygoing and available women on the planet".

This board is directed with tons of hypocrisy.

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caslug says on Jul 6, 2005, 15:09:

maybe a better idea.. would be that you can talk about ANYTHING, as long as its CIVIL and things don't get UGLY. Granted many topics about women/dating start out as CIVIL then degenerate into a UGLY name calling back&forth. Maybe the real reason behind the NO DATING rule is to reduce that kind of rudeness. Of course it also happens on the Political topics too, there the moderate usually tells everyone to play nice, but the let the thread stand.

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Colombiche says on Aug 3, 2005, 09:11:

Good thread I am just writing to bump it back up and maybe throw down the stupid, moronic Colombiana-bashing "my girlfriend is a cyber-ho" thread.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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Colombiche says on Aug 3, 2005, 09:12:

My man COLX Where are you when I need you?

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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Colombiche says on Aug 3, 2005, 09:15:

up up up up.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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Colombiche says on Aug 3, 2005, 09:20:

What happened to.. The informative,intelligent posts by people like Platano, Colx, Adrimm, Desi, Santibog, JuanAlejo, sr tertius, Carolain? Eventhough I don't always agree with everything they say, at least they have useful Colombia info to contribute.

It seems like colombians are being scared away from this site, too much crap being said about us, especially the women. Most of the Colombian posters are becoming scarcer and scarcer.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 3, 2005, 09:36:

Colombiche, some of those guys stick to the political stuff. Hardly any Colombians post on the site - it's for morons like me married to Colombians who post for entertainment. My wife would never post here. OTOH she thinks the entire internet is a waste of time, which is interesting when you consider that she met me there.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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quindioman says on Aug 3, 2005, 09:38:

que paso con chillax?

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quindioman says on Aug 3, 2005, 09:40:

100% behind UTC (not in that sense). If I am after serious news the last place I'll check is PBH.....i'm another moron that uses this site purely for entertainment....

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Colombiche says on Aug 3, 2005, 10:30:

I don't think the entire site Is a waste of time. There have been some interesting discussions here, but I agree with your original post that a lot of the crap that is said about colombiana is just purely insulting.

No matter how much you chillax, it is just way over the top.

zzzzzzz

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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cali373 says on Aug 3, 2005, 10:31:

This thread is SOOOOOOO long. You folks have too much time on your hands

Smile if you are a thinker!

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platano says on Aug 3, 2005, 11:42:

I kind of like the idea that another forum be created... Maybe a category like: man/woman relationships, for anything gender-related (including burras and where fingers go, but, of course, excluding dating) because I mostly ignore all that stuff about "ugly Colombian men" and "hot Colombian women" which is mixed into the friendly talk zone with other cultural/travel topics. I'd be OK if they were separated.

Plátano, el banano verde
Oxigeno Verde ¡Libertad por Ingrid y los demás!

plátano

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Aug 3, 2005, 12:19:

Coming in late on this thread too (first time I saw this was just about ten minutes ago) I'd have to agree that there has been a lot of slander and name calling here lately. I heard it was due to general crankiness caused by hot weather in the States.
With all respect to Peter's no dating rule (I think it's what keeps this board going and gives it a certain standard) I don't mind relationship topics as long as they are handled in a civil manner. Talking about courtship, marriage, family, child-raising and everything around those topics is just part of everyday normal life.
Light-hearted bantering is ok with me, malicious slander and name-calling is not. Knowing the difference can be hard.

Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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Rubiazo says on Aug 3, 2005, 20:24:

Part of what pisses me off is the way some of the male posters on here have SUCH low respect for women. I feel the need to jump in and contradict because to me somebody deserves respect, regardless if they are a prostitute or if they believe in free love or if they are a lesbian or whatever. Those are supposed to be choices an individual can freely make in a free society. I see a lot of intolerance on this board which frankly disgusts me. To me, people who look down on prostitutes need a punch in the face, or better yet, need to walk a mile in those girls' (or guys) shoes and get a little bit schooled!

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caslug says on Aug 3, 2005, 21:21:

couldn´t agree more RUBIZIO.. all the ones i´ve talked with are human beings afterall, they have lives, they kids, they families, they put on their pants(or panties) one feet at the time like us.. The only difference is when we have sex, no one pays us!

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Lostgringo says on Aug 3, 2005, 22:02:

Caslug I agree with Caslug 100%. I also want to remind you Utopia that you yourself have said a few assinine things on this site. I have found your sarcasm at times not in good taste. In fact sarcasm can often be taken as an attack on people because it sometimes shows lack of feelings or empathy. It does not mirror constructive critesism.

My novia is NOT a tramp and I an sure the same holds true with your wife. And, I do NOT believe most Colombianas are tramps. Nor do I think that way about Canadian women. Women, are often like a box of chocolates, you never know what you are going to get. That means they are NOT all alike. Let's face it, there are lots of men that could easily be classified as tramps.

In Cuba I have seen many men and women trying to hook up with Canadians and get married with the intension of immigrating to Canada. Does this make them tramps? I do not think so. They want out of Cuba and are willing to sacrifice a few things to do this; mostly their good looks. Is this wrong? I don't think so. It is done all the time in the US and Canada and around the globe. Woman and men trade their good looks etc., for a better life. In my opinion this does not make them a bad person. It is life. People often marry for wealth and power.

We will always get idiots here who do not have a clue about the world we live in. I pitty them with their little lives surrounded by ignorance and hate. As for you and your wife, try (I know it is hard) and remember the source. Most are gutter snipes. What they have to say really does not matter. They don't know your wife or the Colombian people. Chances are they have no friends at all. There are good people on this site. Don't throw out the baby with the bath water........

Your Home Away from Home www.welovebogota.com and www.apartmentinbogota.com "Luxury apartments and rooms Cheap" Only 2 blocks from the American Embassy! 24/7 hour security.

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Lostgringo says on Aug 3, 2005, 22:19:

gringolousianna wow well said my friend.

Your Home Away from Home www.welovebogota.com and www.apartmentinbogota.com "Luxury apartments and rooms Cheap" Only 2 blocks from the American Embassy! 24/7 hour security.

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Lostgringo says on Aug 3, 2005, 22:39:

Rubiazo 'free choice You are correct Rubianzo.

I do not believe that there is such a thing as "free choice" in the true sense of the intentend meaning. Nor the idea of "determinism". I used to love philosohpy in school lol. Anyway, think of it this way...all of us have choices in this world, but our "choices" are "determined" by many things. For example, the more opportinuities a person has in this world the more he/she is able to make various choices. The more education an idividual has the more opportunity he/she has.
So let's think about a person who is raised in a family with few opportunities in life. Their life is determined by their circumstances. Ok let's kind of jump here to prostitition. If you understand just a little of what I have discussed here you will understand that (for the most part), prostitutes have little choice in their decision to sell their bodies. Their life and "choice" have been determined by their life's experiences, usally bad.
And, of course, there is always the exception to the rule. Poor boy/girl comes from the other side of the tracks and becomes successfull. Yet, for most in the world our success in life is determined by our past and circumstances in which we are nurtured. Statitics have also proven that the poorer you are (American study), the less likely you are to have medical treatment. There was a strong correlation between being poor and longevity. That's right. If you are poor in the US you life expectancy is less than if you are a high earner.

Looking down on prostitutes and the poor is to show ignorance and intolerance. You who is without blame cast the first stone. Anyway enought of my bluttering lol. Wake up...I think I put everyone to sleep lol.

Your Home Away from Home www.welovebogota.com and www.apartmentinbogota.com "Luxury apartments and rooms Cheap" Only 2 blocks from the American Embassy! 24/7 hour security.

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 4, 2005, 08:38:

Yeah but assinine comments are my specialty!

The one thing you need to remember about the Internet and this site, Frank, is NOTHING is as it appears.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Rubiazo says on Aug 4, 2005, 09:17:

Franko I don't even look at it like that. I just see prostitution as another profession; you have doctor, engineer, lawyer, street sweeper, waiter, sex worker. I see it as a necessary part of society, and I think a world where one could not pay for sex would be as terrible as a world without doctors!
As far as education, I think it's incredibly important but also in some ways overrated, here in NYC everybody is going to night school and constantly taking this course and that course, but they are doing it because they think it's the path to wealth. If education really were the key to FINANCIAL success, America would be poor and Colombia would be filthy fucking rich right now!!!
You are also forgetting the most important part of the equation, our WILLS. Will power can overcome any circumstance IMO.
But to me, one should not judge prostitutes not because 'oh, poor them, they had no other choice.' but because I don't see anything wrong with it. To me it's just as bad as judging gay people for being gay. I really do think people's messed-up attitdues do a lot more to block our progress in this world than any economic 'lack of opportunity'.
If anything in some ways we should feel sorry for the Americans and Canadians OVER people in Latin America, because most of them are eating WAY better than we ever could, no matter how much we look for fresh stuff and organic stuff and free-range stuff, their stuff is still fresher and healthier.
Anyways I'm getting into Bogota one day before you. Cya there!

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calipro says on Aug 4, 2005, 19:57:

I'm with UC on this one.... I’m with UC on this one.

I particularly took offense to someone’s remark that Colombians have low moral values and the fact that they blamed in on the way their mothers and father raised them appalling.

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Rubiazo says on Aug 4, 2005, 20:53:

Even if she were a tramp That would be her right, as long as she were honest with you and about it. Sometimes it's the hypocrisy and dissimulation that gets me. I'd love to see a world where a woman can stand up and say 'yo soy una perra puta' and still hold her head high. I think if anything a woman should be ashamed of being a virgin and not having any sexual experience. It should be like not knowing how to brush your teeth or clean yourself.

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Sylvie says on Aug 5, 2005, 10:51:

I've mentioned it a few times and I'll say it again. Stereotypes exist for a reason. Yes it could be a generalization, but they exist because of a popular trend amongst one ethnic group.

Secondly, I'm afraid that the guys who say that all colombianas are whores also think that all women are whores. Guys who say such things lack something called class and respect. I could only imagine how they would feel if someone called their mother or sister a whore.

I usually spit on any guy who refers to any woman as a whore or bitch.

PS: Guys who call women whores have really small penises. :-)

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kernow62 says on Aug 5, 2005, 16:49:

"I usually spit on any guy who refers to any woman as a whore or bitch."

You are one classy lady!

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lpdiver says on Aug 5, 2005, 17:59:

But Sylvie What if the woman IS a whore? jejeje

Tony

"cook some rice!"

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Sylvie says on Aug 5, 2005, 19:03:

kernow62 When I say “spit” it is an expression. It is most commonly used by people of Southern italy and greece. We don’t actually spit saliva at them. It is customary for us to spit to ward off evils, bad things, assholes and so on. The person does not actually spit, what they say is "Ptew, Ptew, Ptew"...Although a few Italian soccer players sometimes let out a bit of saliva when they get into brawls.

I guess I should have explained that for the cakes…..well now you know.

And yes I am one classy lady. ;-)

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Sylvie says on Aug 5, 2005, 19:10:

lpdiver If the woman sells her body for money then she is a whore but I suppose you could call her a prostitute or hooker instead. :-P

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lpdiver says on Aug 5, 2005, 19:14:

Slyvie A rose but any other name eh?

antony

"cook some rice!"

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Sylvie says on Aug 5, 2005, 19:38:

I’ve noticed that people around the world are quick to accept the positive stereotypes but get offended by the negative ones.

For example, my Colombian friend Carlos was once asked by a gringa if he knew how to dance and he said “Of course I can dance I’m Colombian!” Now that is a stereotype, no? It is also stereotyping when someone says that Latinas all have nice big butts. And they’re proud of that stereotype…which they should be of course because flat butts are ugly on women.

Now with the good you’ll have to take the bad. Lets face it, when you want your cell phone unlocked you go to China town. When you want a quality suit made you look for an Italian, when you want someone whacked you look for an Italian, when you want a good financier you look for a Jew! Stereotypes exist for a reason. No one denies that they are blatant generalizations but they hold some truth for some of the people in that population.

Take the negative stereotypes with a grain of salt and eat up the positive ones. Don't get hung up over stupidity!

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Rubiazo says on Aug 5, 2005, 19:44:

I'd rather take back Words like 'whore' and 'slut' and turn them into words with positive meanings. We have traditionally prized womens virginity for the past 2000 years which is really fucked up if you think about it. The model for women is a model whereby the race can't possibly propagate itself? Yeah, THAT makes lots of sense!
Studies show that people who are inexperienced sexually are MUCH more likely to get STDs the moment they actually become sexually active than people who have experience and know the score. Many females who contract HIV do so because they are to naive to insist on safe sex, insist on knowing their partners status by getting tested, etc. Many of them are also dating DL homos and are too naive to see it.

(Going to Bogota in 9 days with HIV negative papers in hand and GLAD I did it!!)

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 5, 2005, 21:27:

Yeah, Rubiazo, I notice that the race has been having trouble propagating itself.

Personally I'd rather have a virgin than a whore for a wife, but hey, maybe that's just me. Call me an old-fashioned guy.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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platano says on Aug 5, 2005, 21:44:

the race can't possibly propagate itself? Naaaahhh... The race will probably never have trouble propagating itself since propagation depends on unskilled labor and the labor pool is big and more than willing :)

Plátano, el banano verde
Oxigeno Verde ¡Libertad por Ingrid y los demás!

plátano

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Rubiazo says on Aug 5, 2005, 22:02:

Actually we DO have a problem propagating ourselves. Aside from a few impoverished regions, most of the world is BELOW replacement rate for births. Even Brazil which used to be at 4.8 kids per family 50 years ago is now right at 2.1, which is generally considered to be replacement rate. Check birth rate statistics worldwide right now, it's a real eye-opener!!!

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Rubiazo says on Aug 5, 2005, 22:07:

UC My current GF really is neither, or rather, she's somewhere in between virgin and whore. But I never would have said boo to her if she were a virgin.

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Sylvie says on Aug 6, 2005, 10:37:

The best is to be a virgin in public and a filthy slut in the bed :-P

If girls talk and act like a filthy sluts in public then they sure will get a lot of attention from the wrong guys but they wont get any respect.

I find its usually the dumb ones who cant get guys without talking like a skank.

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 6, 2005, 10:39:

That's what they say, "You want a lady in the street and a freak in the bed". Is that what you are, Sylvie?

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Sylvie says on Aug 6, 2005, 10:44:

UC Yes I am. I guess I'm more like a lamb in the street and a tiger in the sheets because when someone ticks me off in the streets I'm no longer a lady. I often times find myself threatening to hit them and stuff....not too lady-like.

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 6, 2005, 10:46:

Ah, those hot-blooded Italian chicks! Mama mia!

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Sylvie says on Aug 6, 2005, 10:49:

Lambs get viscious when messed with. I actually got bitten by one at a petting zoo when I was 5. :-(

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 6, 2005, 10:53:

What were you trying to do to that lamb? I guess you took the term "petting" a little too far.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Sylvie says on Aug 6, 2005, 10:57:

I was feeding him with a cone of petting zoo food while petting him. I wanted to pet him longer because I used to like lambs a lot so I decided to move the food away from his mouth so he wouldn't finish so fast. When I did that he bit me.

I ended up crying for about an hour, not because of the bite but because I felt betrayed.He was using me for the food. He didn't care about me! :-(

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 6, 2005, 11:14:

Betrayed at 5 by a little lamb that cared about nothing other than stuffing its face. Might have been a useful lesson in life. I think you should have had him whacked and turned into lamb chops.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Rubiazo says on Aug 6, 2005, 22:53:

I have to break the rules here Mario, you are seriously retarded. I already told you I have a 4 1/2 year old daughter. And between the two of us, it's obvious who respects women more. Go away.

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Lostgringo says on Aug 7, 2005, 10:58:

Refreshing Attitude Yes, you are correct I am in agreement with you line of thinking. I do believe in Will Power too. But 'will power" is the same in some ways as "free choice". As I mentioned there are exceptions to the rule. For sure. We all know that anyone in the US can be president right? We all know that you can simply lose weight and live a healthy lifestyle if you chose to you...right? I agree with the food idea too. I hope to lose weight in Bogota and get my health back. I am a slave to the fast food places here in Canada. Especially now since I am in limbo here. Suitcase in hand and living with my daughter in Victoria BC. Just waiting for the 16th to arrive so I can fly off to Bogota. Hope to hook up with you in Bogota.

Your Home Away from Home www.welovebogota.com and www.apartmentinbogota.com "Luxury apartments and rooms Cheap" Only 2 blocks from the American Embassy! 24/7 hour security.

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Lostgringo says on Aug 7, 2005, 11:24:

Menza or Mentally certified - Mario Wow what got up your ass Mario? Is this an ongoing thing with you and Rubiazo? Or is this just happening in this thread? I don't understand why you are do upset? Is that Mensa Right Wing Certified? Or, Mensa Religious Fanatic Certified?
In terms of pulling the plug on Terry they should of had done that much sooner. Religious fanatics let her hang in all that time with no hope of recovery. They only did this for themselves and their lame beliefs. They certaintly were not helping Terry out. I want them to 'pull the plug" if it happens to me. No thanks I don't want you wiping my butt for years on end just because you think it religiously correct for you.
Rubiazo has some good points. Why don't you address his points without your barrage of insults? You can do it if you try. Remember you are "certified!"

By the way, the little ditty from Mark Twain..is different from what you quoted...he said, "It is better to be thought stupid, than open you mouth and remove all doubt". see this thread, http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/20010115.html

Your Home Away from Home www.welovebogota.com and www.apartmentinbogota.com "Luxury apartments and rooms Cheap" Only 2 blocks from the American Embassy! 24/7 hour security.

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Rubiazo says on Aug 7, 2005, 14:17:

To be president you must be born here. You or I would never be eligible. You also must be at least 35 years old.
I'm beating you to Bogota by one day. :)

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 7, 2005, 16:18:

Everyone on this site has other people that they hate and fight with constantly. There's about 20, no make that 30 people I fight with all the time. No it's probably more like 50 or 60. If I was in Colombia I'd have them whacked but even there at $50 a pop, it would get expensive. Maybe I could get a bulk rate.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Sylvie says on Aug 7, 2005, 22:09:

utopiacowboy, there is no bulk rate when it comes to getting people whacked. Although you can get a discount by doing your own research and telling the "Whacker" where he can find the victim alone and at what time.

This saves them the time and trouble of finding the perfect place and time.

Its not like Costco or Sam's club where you can just purchase in bulk. Geez, must I explain everything to you?

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 7, 2005, 22:22:

Maybe you could have a guy on retainer. Like a lawyer but a lot more effective. We used to know guys in school in Montreal North that you couldn't fight with. Yeah, you could fight with them but you and your entire family would regret it later.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Sylvie says on Aug 7, 2005, 22:24:

You know my uncles? lol

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 7, 2005, 22:26:

Hell, everybody knew your uncles and your cousins and your in-laws and your little brothers. Geez, there was a whole huge list of people you couldn't afford to piss off.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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