Is it that bad?

adrimm (Moderator) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jun 14, 2005, 12:12:

platano says on Jun 14, 2005, 12:27:

Adrimm, barred windows made me feel safe for a while... until one day on the news....(on tele-arepa) I saw a report about a house in Barrio La América in Medellín. A jeep backed up to a nice residential house, hooked a chain around the window bars and then pulled half the window and wall down. When the resident came to see what all the ruckus was about he was assassinated. That was the plan all along as this was one of Pablo's ordered hits. I never felt quite as safe after that, nor did the barred windows and precautions prevent my kidnapping. But, hey, you do what you have to do. And for love people will do darn near anything!

Plátano, el banano verde
Oxigeno Verde ¡Libertad por Ingrid y los demás!

plátano

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capt.lou says on Jun 14, 2005, 13:49:

I am surprised Definition: Total recorded intentional homicides, completed. Crime statistics are often better indicators of prevalence of law enforcement and willingness to report crime, than actual prevalence. Per capita figures expressed per 1000 population.

Amount
1. Colombia 0.63 per 1000 people
2. South Africa 0.51 per 1000 people
3. Jamaica 0.32 per 1000 people
4. Venezuela 0.32 per 1000 people
5. Russia 0.19 per 1000 people
6. Mexico 0.13 per 1000 people
7. Lithuania 0.10 per 1000 people
8. Estonia 0.10 per 1000 people
9. Latvia 0.10 per 1000 people
10. Belarus 0.09 per 1000 people
11. Ukraine 0.09 per 1000 people
12. Papua New Guinea 0.08 per 1000 people
13. Kyrgyzstan 0.08 per 1000 people
14. Thailand 0.07 per 1000 people
15. Moldova 0.07 per 1000 people
16. Zambia 0.07 per 1000 people
17. Seychelles 0.07 per 1000 people
18. Zimbabwe 0.07 per 1000 people
19. Costa Rica 0.06 per 1000 people
20. Poland 0.05 per 1000 people
21. Georgia 0.04 per 1000 people
22. Uruguay 0.04 per 1000 people
23. Bulgaria 0.04 per 1000 people
24. United States 0.04 per 1000 people
25. Armenia 0.03 per 1000 people

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felipe.galindo says on Jun 14, 2005, 17:30:

comment Colombia is just plain awesome.
You will see the contrasts specially in the Big cities, In the north (depending on the city) is pretty much like europe or North America, and in the other side it is more like a developing country.
You just need to have a tiny bit of common sense and you will be fine.

Hope it is hopeful to you.

Felipe

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IMorcombe says on Jun 15, 2005, 06:27:

Is it that bad? Adrimm: and where do you live? sounds like a nice and safe area. I am planning to live in Chia, is it safe?

Thanks!

Maria Ines

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platano says on Jun 15, 2005, 06:31:

All of Colombia is safe, as Felipe correctly states.... and Felipe gives the secret: have a tiny bit of common sense. The lack thereof has gotten me into problems in Colombia.

Chia is great and you will enjoy it! Say hi to Danny who runs the Christian bookstore!

Plátano, el banano verde
Oxigeno Verde ¡Libertad por Ingrid y los demás!

plátano

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go2pr says on Jun 15, 2005, 07:22:

Capt lou You're not surprised that Seychelles appear on those so-called 'statistics' and not Brasil ?

Seems to me that they're inaccurate (wherever they come from).

Anyway if one day I visit Victoria (Seychelle's capital) I'll watch my back, more than I do in Sao Paulo.

lol

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Rubiazo says on Jun 15, 2005, 07:35:

One big myth is that the cities are always the most dangerous places. This is very often not true.
Historically and today, the most dangerous parts of Colombia are the llanura and the amazon, both in the very rural southeast. In Brazil, it is this same area just across the border that touches Colombia and Venezuela.
Also since Puerto Rico is not considered a country for those statistics it doesn't show up, but it trumps Colombia even for violence.

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adrimm (Moderator) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jun 15, 2005, 08:15:

capt.lou says on Jun 15, 2005, 08:18:

go2pr You might want to ask the good people at nationmaster.com where they came up with these stats. What I am suprised about is that Colombia is 2 times worse than Venezuela and without seeing the stats I figured it would be reversed. I have been to both countries and thought Colombia was 100 times better.

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Rubiazo says on Jun 15, 2005, 08:24:

Adriim, plenty of dangerous small cities in canada
Thunder Bay
Moosejaw
Ft St John
Dawson City
Ft MC Murray
Dryden
Kenora
just to name a few.
I'd pick Toronto or Montreal over ANY of those places for safety.
I don't know which city you are in but even in Canada I'd say that there are lots of small towns worse than any of the big cities. And THOSE are the areas where shit goes unreported, mainly because the whole police force in those places are in the pockets of the bikers or the Vietnamese mafia or whoever else is really running that shitty little town.

Just because there are no metal gates on the businesses, no graffitti and no iron bars on the windows, it doesn't make a place safe. Often it just indicates that people living there are still in denial. Or maybe they simply can't afford them!!

Once again, I'm the last person on Earth who would say that Colombia or anywhere else in Latin America is not dangerous. I simply look on any place as being potentially very dangerous. Parts of the US can all of a sudden be a hotbed of danger for you if you are white and your spouse is black (or vice versa). In Canada if you are white and your spouse is Indian the same thing is very true in many areas.

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Rubiazo says on Jun 15, 2005, 08:26:

also from every source I've ever read from, Colombia Brazil and Venezuela were always pretty much neck and neck for violent crime, at least for homicides. They all share that crazy border region which drives the statistics up quite a lot.

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dwmte says on Jun 15, 2005, 09:26:

i lived all over antioquia... and from my perspective, even during the drug lord days (late 80's and early 90') you're safe just about anywhere if you pay attention, don't make unnecessary waves, be smart and alert and don't do what you wouldn't do at home. there are some exeptions, but i have serious doubts you'll find yourself in any of these places, so i'll just leave my advise as it is.

dw

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adrimm (Moderator) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jun 15, 2005, 10:38:

miamimike says on Jun 15, 2005, 11:01:

We see a lot of Iron Bars in the so-called good ... neighborhoods in the Miami areas like Kendall, Coral Gable and Miami Beach. Not much Iron seen on homes in Opa-Locka, Overtown or Liberty City(the really so-called "bad" areas of Miami).Residents there cannot afford that luxury. That said, members of the Notoriously Dangerous Gang, the Mara SalvaTrucha(M-13 guys with all the Tatoos)) have been observed in South Beach,Little Havana and one Gang memeber was arrested last week where I live in North Miami.They have been spotted in various Miami areas; so where is it safe anymore?

Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte después Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte de

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Rubiazo says on Jun 15, 2005, 13:38:

Here you must have bars or the insurance companies will triple your premiums. Ditto for metal gates on the businesses.

I've never seen iron bars or gates anywhere in Canada, but I know lots of places that have suffered repeated hold-ups and break-ins. Americans seem to be very security-conscious in that way. They also seem to be the only people who use aluminum or vinyl siding. I think it looks like shit on my house but I'm not going to tear it down and see how fucked up it probably is under there either! Plus, if it looks like shit on the outside, it's less likely to get robbed on the inside!

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juancegomez says on Jun 15, 2005, 13:52:

Homicide rate has gone down I'd just like to point out that capt.lou's homicide statistics are true, though out of date by several years.

Those are 1999/2000/2001 vintage, at least, so they don't reflect the 2004-2005 reality.

Current figures, if you can find them, are significantly lower, even if still high when compared to other countries. Especially in the main cities but also overall, the situation has improved.

EDIT: The current rate is the lowest since 1985.

THE LOWEST RATE FOR HOMICIDES since 1985 in Colombia was recorded last year thanks to the Democratic Security program, explained the Director of National Planning, Santiago Montenegro, to the participants in the National Table for International Coordination and Cooperation, when he delivered the results of the National Development Plan "Toward a Community State".

He indicated that in 2004 the homicide rate fell to 44.15 for each 100 thousand people, a rate that in 1985 was 40.82. Attacks on towns were reduced by 97% between 2002 and 2004, going from 32 to 1 last year. In 2002, 158 municipalities did not have any Police or Armed Forces personnel present, but today they have the Army, the Police, or other institutions.

http://www.embajadacolombia.ca/posi-06-05in.htm

http://www.seguridadydemocracia.org/news_desc.asp?s_year=2004&s_news_id=107

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utopiacowboy says on Jun 15, 2005, 13:56:

What? I see vinyl siding all over the place in Canada. I don't see too many mobile homes though.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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