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is it possible to open a bank account without being a resident?

hi.has anyone opened a bank account with a bank in bogota,just with their passport,without having a cedular?is it possible?

By melindamcgrath on Apr 26, 2008, 14:02 in Friendly Talkzone.

jorgegdiaz says on Apr 26, 2008, 14:48:

I´ve asked DAVIVIENDA and they say that with your passport and yoru cedula de extranjeria there´s no problem. Anyway, google it here, it´s been beaten to death.

Man with hole in pocket feel cocky all day.

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RAAAY says on Apr 26, 2008, 15:59:

The short answer is no. But, it has been known to happen. Your only slim chance is, if you know someone who has a good relationship with their bank manager, the manager might do it for you.

.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

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Noelito40 says on Apr 26, 2008, 17:24:

Raay´s right, I opened an account with Davivienda after only a week in the country, with my foreign passport (well before I had my cedula de extranjeria). But my wife is Colombian, and had her account with the same branch. Without this I reckon it was a longshot at best.

After my trials and tribulations trying to open accounts in other banks (just look up my recent thread on "banks and bank accounts",) I think it’s safe to say that a) it’s nigh on impossible to open an account here without a personal introduction from a native, and b) Davivienda seem to have the most relaxed rules when it comes to opening accounts for foreigners.

Noelito

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robi666 says on Apr 26, 2008, 17:50:

Noelito, as per what some PBHers say, you will have your account closed soon. Mine, almost three years old now, will be closed, too. Also, some other PBHers that I know will have their account closed, too. Money will be stolen by the bank.

Because:
you cannot open your account without a definitive cedula
if they open it, it is against the rules, and the "superintendencia" will close it

Sorry to let you know it.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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Noelito40 says on Apr 26, 2008, 19:00:

Thanks robi but that won´t affect me. I closed my Davivienda account about a month ago, and opened a new account in another bank just last week with my valid cedula de extranjeria...

This is a very serious matter however and could obviously have serious consequences for many of us, so I will contact the superintendencia on this and get a definitive...

Will keep you posted

Noelito

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elk says on Apr 27, 2008, 01:56:

Robi666 says: Money will be stolen by the bank.

I would like to hear more about banks robbing your money. I have two bank accounts in Colombia, Davivienda and Bancolombia and would like to hear of personal experiences regarding the loss of funds. What if any protection do we have with our personal accounts in Colombia. I know Bancolombia is on the New York stock exchange with many foreign share holders and should have better controls and security than others...??? I know our funds are not FDIC insured, but how can a bank simply take your funds.

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Ctg Bound says on Apr 27, 2008, 05:17:

robi666,

Yes, some banks will open an account without a cedula, just on the passport, because they don't know the rules, when somebody higher up finds out, thy close the account done.

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tomtom33 says on Apr 27, 2008, 05:58:

Elk, some 9 million pesos of my money was stolen from my novia's Bancolombia account. We discovered the theft in October of last year. Bancolombia said that they were having problems with employee theft from accounts. I believe that they are finally ready to give me the money back. However, my novia has been waiting over a year and a half for her cedula. They will not give her the money with a contraseña. Someone on PBH suggested that she get a passport. Unfortunately she can't get a passport without a cedula.

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robi666 says on Apr 27, 2008, 07:13:

Ctg, I would really like to have a look at that rule.
I am not saying that it is not true, but I could not find anything like that, although I have asked to many.
The lawyer on this board was talking about the same, and promised to post here the reference, but he did not do it, yet.

Do you have any reference? What do you mean with someone higher?

People talk about a lot of shit in Colombia. The only way to know the truth is to read the law.
As an example, I can tell you that I find it strange that you can file form 11 with your passport, buy real estate, and cannot have a bank account, by law.

My personal experience is that I had my account opened almost three years ago with a contraseña backed by a DAS certified letter and a good introduction. Moved money back and forth, form 5, 4, 11 with no problems.

Tom's problem is of a different kind.

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robi666 says on Apr 27, 2008, 07:35:

It is hard to find something on the Internet about it.
But, just as an example, have a look at a Bancolombia document.

http://www.grupobancolombia.com/personal/formatosPDF/comunes/reglament...
ARTICULO QUINTO: CONDICIONES PARA LA APERTURA:
"Para la apertura de la cuenta, el depositante esta obligado a presentar su Cedula de
Ciudadania si es colombiano, o el Nit y el documento pertinente indicado por la Ley si
es extranjero. "

Interesting the following, from the Colombian embassy in Bruxelles:
http://www.emcolbru.org/

APERTURA DE CUENTAS BANCARIAS PARA EXTRANJEROS EN COLOMBIA

Ante el creciente número de consultas sobre el documento que deben presentar los ciudadanos extranjeros que desean abrir cuentas corrientes o de ahorros en Colombia, se consultó a la Superintendencia Financiera sobre este punto y la entidad precisó que de acuerdo con las normas vigentes los ciudadanos extranjeros deberán presentar cédula de extranjería o pasaporte vigente. Otros requisitos de ley pueden preguntarse en esta misión en el teléfono 02/649.07.68 o en el correo consulado.colombia at scarlet.be, como también en la página de la entidad, www.superfinanciera.gov.co

It clearly says that the Superintendencia Financiera stated that you just need your passport.

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robi666 says on Apr 27, 2008, 07:49:

Bottom line, I am quite sure that Banks do not open an account with passport because of internal rules made up to cover their asses from Money Laundering.
Those rules can be bypassed with a central authorization, that will be requested on the manager behalf thanks to a good introduction to the Bank.

Have a look at this blog.
http://extranjeroencolombia.blogspot.com/2008/02/intentando-abrir-una-...

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pedro says on Apr 27, 2008, 08:07:

Tomtom, I know it's possible to get a first passport issued while waiting for a replacement cedula. My girlfriend has done exactly that.

que nota!

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Boatygringo says on Apr 27, 2008, 08:09:

Unless you have income in Colombia why do you need a Colombian bank account. From what my friends tell me the fees are sky high and the service is poor.

Boatygringo

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tomtom33 says on Apr 27, 2008, 08:57:

Thanks, Pedro. I will try again.

Boaty, the bank account comes in handy to move money into and out of Colombia for buying and selling property. Yup, the service sucks. And every time you do a transaction(it seems), you pay a fee. What, I deposit money and they want a fee? Yesss.

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Ctg Bound says on Apr 27, 2008, 09:26:

robi666,

No I have never seen the rule, they just say it exists, wether it does actualy exists is another matter.

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Gator says on Apr 27, 2008, 11:29:

Regulations of Colombia governing the requirements to obtain documentation confirming the identity of the account holder(s).
(i) Organic Statute of the Financial System, Decree-Law 663 of 1993, as
amended, Part Three, Chapter Sixteen, Articles 102-107, Part Seven, Chapters
One-Two, Articles 209-211.
(ii) Code of Commerce, Articles 203, 207 section 3.
(iii) Basic Legal Circular Letter of the Banking Superintendency (External Circular
Letter 007 of 1996), Title 1, Chapter 9, section 6; Title 5, Preliminary Chapter,
section 1.
(iv) External Resolution 8 of 2000 issued by the Board of Directors of Banco de
la República (the Central Bank), Articles 1, 3.
(v) External Regulatory Circular Letter DCIN 4 of 2001, issued by the Foreign
Exchange Department of Banco de la República (the Central Bank), Section 1.3.
The preceding laws and regulations substantively apply to all institutions under
the supervision of the Banking Superintendency.

The most perteniant of these is account holder shall use the following specific documentary evidence I(does not apply to accounts opened before January 1, 200).
For natural persons: Item 1
(a) A passport, or
(b) Cédula de Ciudadanía (Colombian adults' I.D.), Tarjeta de Identidad
(Colombian minors' I.D.), Cédula de Extranjería (I.D. card issued by
Colombian authorities to resident aliens).
Institution shall not open an account by any means other than by establishing in
person the identity of a customer through the account holder’s own identity
documents...

3. The following penalties apply to failure to obtain, maintain, and evaluate documentation obtained under the laws and regulations identified in item 1 above.

(i) Personal penalties assessed against directors, managers, external auditors,
officials or employees of the Supervised Institutions:
(a) Fines, payable to the National Treasury, for breaches of any law,
regulation, rule, by-law, or other legal provision: up to Col$31,562,472.48.
(b) Fines, payable to the National Treasury, for violations against the
asset laundering prevention and control rules: up to Col$74,760,356.00.
Such fines are applied per violation and may be successive.These fines are readjusted based on the Colombian Consumer Price Index (CPI).

"Brevior Sltare Cum Deformibus Mulieribus Est Vita!" .

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robi666 says on Apr 27, 2008, 12:52:

So, it seems a passport is ok.

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tomtom33 says on Apr 27, 2008, 13:01:

That is the way I read it, too. However, there could be another provision elsewhere that would require a cedula.

And, of course, there is the law on one hand. And how the law is interpreted/enforced on the other hand. I don't know much about how stuff in Colombia works. But in the US, the Code of Federal Regulations also carries force of law. A regulation could have been written that, in effect, requires some type of VISA. If you have a VISA, you must have a cedula.

Or the banks could just be covering their asses on money laundering.

And the last time I had an attorney in my employ explain Colombian law to a Colombian bureaucrat, that bureaucrat made me pay for making him look stupid.

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RAAAY says on Apr 27, 2008, 13:03:

robi666 says

.." So, it seems a passport is ok.'

Not the way I read it...........

" For natural persons: Item 1
(a) A passport, or
(b) Cédula de Ciudadanía " .....................

That appears to mean, a Colombian National with a Colombian passport.......No ?

.

.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

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Gator says on Apr 27, 2008, 13:08:

Spoke to a bank manager and he said it is up to the individual branch manager on what ID is accepted. It must be at least one of these; a valid passport, Cédula de Ciudadanía or a Cédula de Extranjería

I am afraid Tomtom is absolutly correct, "Or the banks could just be covering their asses on money laundering." Best way to stay out of trouble is just say NO!

"Brevior Sltare Cum Deformibus Mulieribus Est Vita!" .

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robi666 says on Apr 27, 2008, 13:16:

Well, Ray, a natural person is a natural person... Colombian or else. It says "natural person", not "Colombian citizens".
But you can interpret it the way you want.

Anyway, I am still waiting for someone to show me the law from the Superintendencia Financiera.
Where did you get it Gator?
What I read from the Colombian Embassy in Belgium website is pretty clear, too, on the other hand.
Even the Bancolombia internal document is pretty clear.

Gator, that's exactly what I was saying. They do not care a shit about opening an account for you, so they just find an excuse to say no.
I spoke to a couple of bank managers. They clearly said that they will not accept any request of opening an account from a foreigner walking into their branch without a cedula, IF they are not introduced by a well known client.
Many banks will turn you out even with a cedula.

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RAAAY says on Apr 27, 2008, 13:30:

Robi......................." Well, Ray, a natural person is a natural person... Colombian or else. It says "natural person", not "Colombian citizens".
But you can interpret it the way you want "

Natural Person is a term used, to otherwise describe a citizen of a country.

You are a Natural Person of Italy. I am a Natural Person of Ireland. I am also a " Naturilized Citizen" of the US.

.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

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robi666 says on Apr 27, 2008, 13:34:

Ok... you're right :)

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robi666 says on Apr 27, 2008, 13:35:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_person

http://www.nolo.com/definition.cfm/Term/61D37D9C-A50D-4E29-86A8E661D7D...

http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_person

now, if you want to add to it a citizenship meaning, that's up to you...
maybe I follow Latin Jurisprudence and in Ireland you have a different jurisprudence, coming from some kind of Barbarian code written in stone up there something like 400 years ago, or Vikings... who knows...
maybe you do not even know what I am talking about, my English is not good, etc.... :)

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Gator says on Apr 27, 2008, 13:45:

Where did you get it Gator?

Superintendencia Financiera de Colombia's site

"Brevior Sltare Cum Deformibus Mulieribus Est Vita!" .

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robi666 says on Apr 27, 2008, 13:47:

In English? Good!

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RAAAY says on Apr 27, 2008, 13:55:

I don't know either way...........however I would be inclined to think, that the term used in this context, refers to a Colombian citizen.

There are various ways that termonolgy is interperated here. For example, " A company's legal representative" in Colombia means...........a member of the corporation.

In the US and elsewhere, " A company's legal representative" would refer to the attorney for the corporation.

.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

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Noelito40 says on Apr 27, 2008, 16:43:

“Many banks will turn you out even with a cedula.�?

Good point Robi and my (very recent) experience seems to back this up. 2 banks had no problem opening an account for me, with my cedula de extranjeria, but as I wanted to deposit a sizable sum, to buy property here, they suddenly said no! My guess is that they were more worried about possible money laundering (even though my money is clean, i.e. not laundered, haha!!) than they were about having my account.

What puzzles me though, is that if banks here are so scared of the authorities, and having any connection with money laundering on their rap sheet, why aren´t the authorities using their powers to reduce the extortionate interest rates the banks charge? Why isn´t the superintendencia trying to break up the cosy cartel the banks have here? In fact one of the most striking things I found when I arrived in Colombia was just how many banks there are here!

Noelito

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