Is it common for a colombian boyfriend to financially support his girlfriend?

Mario says on Sep 2, 2005, 17:59:

$1,800.000 is probably more than sufficient. She could probably have some savings with that amount (if she doesn't have kids).

Desideria (Moderator) says on Sep 2, 2005, 18:12:

that's way too high a single colombiana, in B/quilla sharing an apartment with friends would need about 750 000 Col pesos a month to pay for her food, housing, transportations, utilities, clothes and entertainment.

Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

tomtom33 says on Sep 2, 2005, 18:20:

I won't send money monthly. But I do seem to manage to pay for grandmother's hospital bill, regalas, and some past due bills.

Mario says on Sep 2, 2005, 18:30:

Sorry Desi, I think it's about right if I were handling it generously. That's only about $900.00 a month.

bufalo says on Sep 2, 2005, 18:30:

"Why is it that most colombianas expect their foreign boyfriends to send them money each month?" Simple. Because you can. What does a girl here have to do to make that amount of money every month? - Work a lot. But how long would it take you to make that where you are? BY COMPARISON, not that long, so "hey, what´s the problem, you have it, send some to me". I don´t know you nor your girlfriend so take what I say for what it is, a lot of american guys are being played for suckers by colombianas here. You´re right, she used to be able to pay her bills, why can´t she do that now AFTER meeting you? I used to party a lot, a whole lot in Santa Marta, I met and had some really good times with chicks from all over Colombia (lots of paisas), a good number of them were getting money sent by some sucker in the states who had no idea that she was on a vacation, flirting on the beach, dancing with a bunch of other guys in the clubs at night and every now and then hopping in the sack with one of them. I AM NOT SAYING THIS IS YOUR SITUATION, just that I saw this a lot, take a good look, hope all works out.

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

caslug says on Sep 2, 2005, 18:33:

Where's is Suipacha??? This is too easy!.. A LOCAL COL boyfriend does NOT have EXTRA money to give his gf(unless they have a kid together). They'll pay for dinner, drinks, vacation, etc., but not a monthly stipend. Beside if they had extra money for stipend, they help their family or get a second GF! ONLY foreign boyfriend or MAYBE COL living abroad will give monthly stipend.

Why don't pay 400-600k/mo for her own apartment and utilities. That way, she gets her own place, you have a place to crash when you visit, and it frees up 200-300k a month for her. And you pay it directly to the landloard, you can even prepay the landlord. That way, she still has an needs to find some job to pay for her entertainment. If you pay her 750k-1.5mil, then she has NO INCENTIVE to work! Because at most that is what she'll be making. 1.5mil/mo is 700USD/mo, a DOCTOR working 48 hrs a weeks in Medellin gets 1000USD/mo.

kernow62 says on Sep 2, 2005, 18:49:

Wait a second, I thought all the gringos want a nice stay at home wife with old fashioned values like June Cleaver that you can't find in American girls these days. Now I hear you want her to go to work?

bufalo says on Sep 2, 2005, 18:54:

Good one!

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

cam0940 says on Sep 2, 2005, 19:07:

I hear ya, Don. You have to really trust this girl.

On what basis to do you say that MOST Colombianas expect their boyfriends to support them financially? Are there others you know that are experiencing this same thing?

IMO, if you're going to send her a monthly stipend, you need to ask yourself where this situation is going... that is, how long are you going to do this for? You said she was your fiancee, so I would assume that you're in the visa process and you'll only be separated for a few months. If that's the case, then you may have to mantenerla in the meantime. But if you haven't started the process, if this is a situation that could go on indefinitely and you have no "exit strategy" (e.g. she finally moves here) then I wouldn't do it. You could be sending monthly payments with no return on the investment.

But I do agree with you, give her a fixed amount and that's it. If she blows it in one weekend, well she's going to have to learn to manage her money. It'll be a good lesson if she doesn't know how to do that already. Why not give her $750 or something comfortable for you, and if that's not enough for her, then she can get a part time gig. Remember, she's not your dependent yet, this is just interim boyfriend courtesy. Do what you can afford comfortably. $750 is a nice supplement to whatever she was earning before you came along.

RUV says on Sep 2, 2005, 19:15:

I do not get it. You should be asking what has changed from the time you meet her to now that she need you to give her money. What will she do if you say you will not send any money? Have you tried that? Will she leave you? If so, do you really want her? Do not send any money until you can justify it. You already said "that she pays", meaning that she is paying it already. Sounds like she wants party money.

Bufalo, sending money just because you have it does not make sense.

caslug says on Sep 2, 2005, 19:24:

If you want to send money.. because you got it and want to help her and it makes you feel good. go for it. But if you think it'll teach her financial budgeting then that's little crazy. If she's a nice girl with good intention, she would still try to get a job and help her family financially. If she not a nice girl then she'll blow it shopping and partying and NOT try to get a job. SO i guess it's a good test of her character if you want to look at it that way.

back to the original question, do anyone know if LOCAL COL BF give money to GF as cultural norm?

Lucia Rojas says on Sep 2, 2005, 19:47:

No they don´t.

Anything else I would like to say could attempt against good faith...

I do think you should be able to help the people you love.

toneloc24 says on Sep 2, 2005, 20:10:

Local Colombian BFs do not, as a norm, financially support their GF, unless they are living together as a couple or have a baby. The Colombians guys that I know all have girlfriends who have jobs. The girls have ambition, were independent, but at the same time very feminine, beautiful, and respectful nonetheless. Of course, they help each other out when the money gets short each month, but that is very different than expecting a monthly stipend. I can understand your desire to help out monthly, but think it through. Would you do the same in the USA?

To the OP, I don't know the status of your fiance and your relationship with her, but....just heed the words that others have already said. You're her boyfriend, her fiance, not the bank.

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

miamimike says on Sep 2, 2005, 20:31:

The Only Colombian Men I saw giving their Girlfriends $$$$ were older Colombianos (PapiChulos)maintaining their younger Girlfriends. And then they payed the Rent(apartment)and at no times did they put the money directly into their Armante's hands(girlfriend's hands)Same for food, clothes ect-they took 'em shopping but NEVER gave them a Wad of money.There is a current situation in Barrinquilla--involves a group of three women-between ages 22 to 35--they have Papichulos in this city and also Novios in the USA.They are Double-Dipping and doing OK. They all have plans on coming here to the USA.One of their group is here already and in a few months after she gets Permenent residency, she is "flying the coop". Poor guy and he doesn't even know it! He has already dropped over $10,000 on her. These women met their American Boyfriends through an agency for the most part, one did not! I would as soon NOT list their Names on PBH. Never know.I would be EXTREMELY careful about sending money; as a few posters wrote, what did they do before they met you??? That is a LOT of money you are contemplating sending. Sorry, but over the last 11 years I have just seen too many of these arrangements that did not work and the guy lost his money.Caveat Emptor!

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,

DoninLasVegas says on Sep 2, 2005, 20:58:

Thanks for all the input!! Thanks to all for the input!

Just to put some minds at ease my financé & I are in the process of applying for a K-1 (fiancé) visa. Our relationship is the real deal. I consider it more important for her to attend English classes at this stage & consider that to be her full time job. For actual employment she is a self employed architect. There are a lot of dry spells inbetween clients. She works as time permits & when she has clients. She has always been careful when spending my money (for instance with the english school she chose to attend) so she has passed the tests I put in place to earn my confidence.

She is 30 years old & of course goes out with friends periodically. I encourage her to get out more. She is very much a home body & enjoys spending time with older more mature people. Having fun with friends outside of the house is a great part of life.

I admit I have never given any money to any girlfriends I dated in the USA. If one would have asked me it would have been our final date. That's the reason I generated this thread with my question. Although I am happy to help my Colombian girlfriend financially, it still feels strange. Everything in my upbringing & general philosophy of life would tell me not to send $$ to a novia. Yet I am going counter to my upbringing -- I must be in love.

I spoke to her about 30 minutes ago on the phone for about 45 minutes. We came to a general agreement that I would send her about $600 each month. That seems reasonable to me as we went down her list of expenses.

Thanks again to all.

Don

kernow62 says on Sep 2, 2005, 21:22:

Hope things continue to work out and that your love for each other flourishes. There are more than a few PBH members who have wonderful longlasting marriages to Colombianas. So it obviously can, and does work occasionally. :-)

utopiacowboy says on Sep 2, 2005, 21:25:

You are being milked like a gringo cow, dude. Colombianas don't expect their boyfriends to support them, only their "rich" gringo boyfriends that they see as their version of a lottery win. Even though I was married, I did not support my wife while we were apart and she was still living in Colombia. She had an ATM card on an account that she could get a little emergency money but she continued to support herself from her salary.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

adrimm says on Sep 2, 2005, 21:45:

Expectation = warning sign. I'm torn between hoping that your case is one of the good ones (in part becuase your novia's situation echoes that of a cousin I have who is an architectural draftperson - Everyone in the family has had to help her out now and then becuse the contracts are so sparse)...

BUT Iview the expectation as a huge red flag, even more so if it starts off early.


Here goes (In general):

I know guys like to treat their girlfriends, but the currency difference between Colombia and other places makes it awfully easy to really go overboard becuase so much more can be had there for so much less in a foreign currency.

An analogy is the holiday for a foreigner in Colombia: Why spend $50 for a perfectly nice and comfortable hotel room when for $90 or $120 will get you luxury you have never dreamed of affording at home....? Tempting isn't it? That's great except that in Colombian eyes those prices are only for the supremely wealthy.

So the temptations to treat (becuase really, it's sooo affordable), can make the foreigner look like Mr (or Ms) Moneybags. Even when from your perspective it is a logical indulgence and treat.

So long story short, a girl who has the expectation that you will support her entirely right from the get go becuase you have *tons* of money (from her POV), may be percieving you in a false light.

IMHO if it is a distance relationship then don't send money because it is soo easy to do and makes you feel better. Rather, get on the phone and spend as much time as possible together getting to know one another. Imho, time is a far far better investment for strengthening a relationship then regular cash injections. Buy for herexactly what you would buy for a cherished girlfriend of your own culture.

So the occasional financial bailouts are fine, but don't turn it into a regular support payment.

toneloc24 says on Sep 2, 2005, 21:45:

Gotta agree with UC. You're being milked. Money does not equal love. $600 a month in Colombia??? As a supplement? As a general agreement? You are asking for it.

I do wish you the best in your decision. However, the same common sense that you applied in your relationships here in the USA, should be applied in Colombia. Keep your eyes wide open, buddy.

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

DoninLasVegas says on Sep 2, 2005, 22:13:

I will admit I have not asked her why she needs my $$ I will admit we have not had the conversation of why she needs me to send her money. I talk with her on the phone almost every night 30 - 45 minutes. I'll ask her the question tomorrow & will post her response here so inquiring & suspicious minds will have an answer from the perspective of a colombiana receiving the $$.

Don

caslug says on Sep 3, 2005, 00:19:

Dude, for $600 USD a month.. you can keep THREE GF! Why settle for one??? Some guys like spending money on their GF as a way to prove their love. If you like that then go for it. BUT dont kid yourself and think that is the amount she needs to "get by". Her rent is only $90USD/mo so where is the rest of the $500 going? Food a month in COL is at MOST $50-100USD/mo. Unless she buying new cloths all the time, where would she spend that kinda of money.

flaleo says on Sep 3, 2005, 03:04:

$600 USD????? You mean 600.000 pesos right?

aztec says on Sep 3, 2005, 03:06:

To each his/her own! Been married for 16 years to a Colombian. She absolutely refused any money from me. Even after we were married she insisted she pay off all her accumulated bills(credit cards & auto)without any assistance from me. Even today she is extremely frugal with "our" funds

I refuse to judge another's motives. Just be careful.

Lucia Rojas says on Sep 3, 2005, 03:29:

I Lived in a peruviam amazon jungle city were I was working in a sexual education program for teenagers. And in Perú, which is country much more used to tourists and foreigners than Colombia, people actually make a living out of it. There is a special term for it and everything: brichero/a: a person that seduces gringos/as so that they will pay for stuff and take them out. In Pucallpa it was a big problem...( you also had tons of blonde, blue eyed father-less babies running around town) Many women there had a couple of gringos sending money (bare in mind that "gringos" there, come from all over the world). My english friend said he never knew if they were interested in him because they liked him or because they thought he had money....Finally he met somebody he trusted and fell in love, and even though he payed for a lot of stuff because he had a job and she didn´t, he was always very careful so that she wouldn´t think it was his obligation to pay.

kernow62 says on Sep 3, 2005, 05:47:

I mean why would a beautiful girl in Colombia be interested in a guy that looked like Woody Allen's poor relation on crack? If one can't get a hot looking girl to date you in the USA or wherever one lives then it is reasonable to believe there must be something else contributing to your sudden change of luck.

One can try to convince themselves that it is because Colombian men are players, or that they abuse their women.

The truth is that more than likely you are providing something, be that money, a ticket out, or even just a home for her and her sproggs.

If you enter the relationship with doubts about why the woman is attracted to you, it will be always hanging over the relationship.

adela says on Sep 3, 2005, 09:12:

Donin.
1.I guess 750mil per month in B/quilla is ok.

2. Why you send money to her, except for the phone? Even sending money for paying the phone bill, if she is really interested in having a talk every night with you...she would look pc-pc chat.

Try not to send her money three months. Just try.

CaliCalor

2retirensa says on Sep 3, 2005, 09:19:

OK Don You even have the women suggesting you not send $$. Think about it!
As a woman, we always want to help and protect our "sisters", but even we don't want them taking advantage of someone and giving the impression that's what women expect. (Only certain ones do). I suggest the same as Adela- don't send $$ and see how it goes.
Maureen

utopiacowboy says on Sep 3, 2005, 09:51:

Roofus, how about a photo? I don't think you need the silicone but we need to be sure.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

utopiacowboy says on Sep 3, 2005, 11:35:

So you think you got enough as it is and then after a good shave and a skirt, you'll be all set! Too funny, man.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

CaryGrant says on Sep 3, 2005, 15:25:

Expectations of financial support before marriage seem suspicious. I do not believe that *most* Colombian women have this expectation. After marriage is a different story. That said, however:

I happen to agree that her most important job is learning English, once you're sure your relationship is real and will last. My fiancee never asks for money, but every now and again I force some upon her for things like ADSL. She would be willing to use Colombia's .000006Kb/s dialup rather than spend the money, so it took some convincing. That I considered a good sign. When I asked her about supporting her daughter, she made clear that while she preferred not to work, at least immediately (not like she could anyway), she did not expect me to support another man's child. Another good sign.

At some point in a relationship, after enough of these signs, you get a feel for each other's character, and you decide to trust each other. It does not sound like you are at that point, or you wouldn't be asking this board. It is not a cultural difference. Women of good character do not have expectations of financial support before marriage.

cam0940 says on Sep 3, 2005, 15:41:

CaryGrant is all over this thread with good old fashioned common sense. My girl doesn't have a child, and lives at home with her parents, so her financial pressures are less than what some other women might experience. If/when I send money, I know it's so she can go to the mall. Or out to eat. Or just blow on whatever. But if it's a few hundred dollars here and there, and it's not crimping my lifestyle, who cares? I asked her not to work for these few months, so I don't mind giving her a little money for her bolsilla. But again, back to good ole common sense Cary Grant, I guess we had built that trust before we got to where we are now.

DianaMa says on Sep 3, 2005, 15:56:

Why.... ...do you feel obliged to send her money? I'm just curious. Did she tell you a sob story? Does she get a headache everynight until you show her the money? It just seems so....odd, and mildly sleezy.


cheers
Diana

macacu says on Sep 3, 2005, 15:59:

Americans supporting GF in Colombia I invite all those guys that are sending money every month to come unannaunced and see what their GFs are doing with their $$$$.
The only women that receive $ from their boyfriends in Colombia are the ones having affairs with old men (papichulos).

cam0940 says on Sep 3, 2005, 16:34:

The unfortunate truth is that there is a sucker born every minute. And if you can't see what you're dealing with, then maybe you're in a position to be taken advantage of. First of all I have an IQ of about 145, plus I have the street smarts to go with it. I highly doubt there is a woman in all of Colombia that could dupe me. I've seen it all. That is why I'm qualified to say the woman I'M dealing with, can't speak for all of them, is not trying to get over.

And as far as being obliged to do it, some men want to take care of their girl, whether she's Colombian or not. I had a girlfriend once who was getting her Master's degree. To pay for this, she had one job during the day, went to class in the evening, and then occassionally was one of those supervisor's at a girls group home, and she had to spend the night in the group home. Obviously the nights she was at the group home she couldn't spend the night with me. So I asked her to quit. She explained that if she quit, then she wouldn't be able to pay all her bills. So I offered to help with her bills. Now since it's my idea for her to quit the group home so she can spend the night with me, I'm obligated to fulfill my part of the bargain. Same thing with Colombia. I asked my girl to focus primarily on her English classes, but then she should still be able to buy a new pair of shoes or jeans or whatever. I kind of owe that to her.

Crazy4Cali says on Sep 3, 2005, 17:03:

Mis dos centavos... Q. Why is it that most colombianas expect their foreign boyfriends to send them money each month?
A. First of all "Most" don't, but "Some" do. Why? Why not? nothing ventured, nothing gained. Right?

Q. They survived without our money before meeting us. Why should things be any different after meeting us?
A. They shouldn't.

Q. Is it normal for colombian boyfriends (with good jobs) to support their girlfriend if she in unemployed?
A. No. Colombian boyfriends know they don't need to, they can always get another colombiana if one becomes too much trouble.

I can't say anything about your novia or your situation in particular but "asking for money" is generally a red flag as almost everyone above has pretty said.

My colombiana was (and still is) loath to accept any money from me no matter how much I pressed her. Only reluctantly and in the most dire of circumstances would she accept it (and even then, it was after much insistence on my part). As you can see from the other posters, the attitude of my novia is not unique. At the same time, unfortunately, neither is that of the original poster's novia.

Hopefully your novia is honest and sincere, but the odds are against it.

utopiacowboy says on Sep 3, 2005, 17:06:

How is giving money to a chick in this situation different from getting a prepago?

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Crazy4Cali says on Sep 3, 2005, 17:08:

how? easy.
unless you're in Colombia, you're not getting your money's worth.

flaleo says on Sep 3, 2005, 17:44:

typically, i'd side with most of you - only gringo fools give their colombianas money. but, is there an exception? in all of the country, is there one girl (maybe two or three?) that are good girls, living a hard life, with no papichulos on the side? if you come down with no notice and surprise her is it possible you'll find no surprises?

your generalizations kill me sometimes.

i call me girl two or three times a day, at her office phone and at home. she works 6-7 days per week, 8-12 hours a day. i've had many girls try to scam me during my many trips to south american countries. there are girls that are the exception.

Lucia Rojas says on Sep 3, 2005, 22:51:

You might think you've seen it all but colombian in general have seen more.... This is the country of the kings and queens of scams....

cam0940 says on Sep 3, 2005, 23:39:

Lucia That's very cute dear, but really. These ladies here are playing varsity level. Because life here is more complicated, these women I'm talking about are running games the typical Colombiana wouldn't even understand.

Mario says on Sep 3, 2005, 23:54:

Yeah, my wife was/is an exception, and so are all six of her sisters. There are people who are raised by their parents to live with integrity, and good moral values in all countries, and there are simple-minded sluts too - male and female.

I'd say that the kings and queens of scams are everywhere in the world to some degree and more than not - right here in the U.S. because the word 'integrity' isn't really taught here anymore for the most part. Sad but true.

It also speaks to the lack of discipline, and 'right from wrong' instilled into children these days and I'm not talking about corporal punishment. Although I was raised with that as the norm in Catholic schools, I've always refused to practice it, never believed it does anything but teach a child it's okay to hit to get their point across rather than verbalizing, and my children are in their teens and still as sweet and well behaved as they always were.

It comes down to the parents, siblings and peers. What are young people exposed to - and more importantly, what do we allow them to be exposed to. I'm not going to shelter my children from the chaos in the world, I'll teach them with it. And also with examples of the bad behavior of other people. They should see that because that will teach them what's wrong with some in our different societies. But the other side of the coin is that I'm not going to allow them to be glued to the TV watching bullshit that is destructive to their mental health and harmful to their development as young people. It amazes me at some of the totally detrimental garbage "parents" will allow their children to view or participate in.

Anyway, I'm thankful to my Colombian parents-in-law for a job very well done and to my wife for the excellent job she's done in raising a respectful, intelligent and caring young man who has mucho integridad and a whole lot going for him now and in the future.

Yorkie says on Sep 4, 2005, 06:45:

Money for GF... Why...? I don't know the situation, but as a Colombian woman, I would advise you not to do it. Why? Simple, like many others have said how did she managed before she met you. Another reason, I do not think life in Barranquilla is that expensive. I have a relative with three children and a husband who has been with out a job for years and some how she manages to support her entire family with her salary, little more than CP$2.000.000 in Bogota.

Cerealkiller says on Sep 4, 2005, 10:48:

totally with RUV and GiB thats totally nuts, i think someone is getting marraneado...Personally, if she cares for you and love you she wont end up the relationship because youre not sending her any money. i suppose it is a little bit more reasonable, if youre living together for you to help her out making ends meet, otherwise i think it is better not to base a relationship on how much you send her a month...

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

Crazy4Cali says on Sep 4, 2005, 18:53:

Isn't it obvious? Q: how did she managed before she met you?
A: By milking another gringo before she met you.

But if you don't mind paying for something your not getting, that's your business.

viewpoint says on Sep 5, 2005, 06:04:

I really don´t know where some of the foreign posters come from let alone undertand their posts. You come to Colombia to meet women (mostly unemployed) that on average (strata 1-3) make on average (if they have a job) of $200 per month (or maybe less) and you whine, cry and defend your positions of not ¨sharing¨ you wealth with another person that lives with an income of less than 20% of what the proverty line would be considered in your foreign country.

Every day your so-called girlfriend is making choices of which meal she can eat, walking instead of riding because she has no money or taking a bus because she can´t afford a cab while you are sitting on your fat ass in some foreign country wasting more money than it would take to share with a SO-CALLED love one (GF) while she is living in proverty (by USA standards).

What do you expect to find when you seek these women out ? Do you expect they should be an economic equal with resources they don´t have. Take your sorry asses back to your foreign country as you are right these women don´t need your money they need the comittment and love they will find in Colombia from a Colombian man that will share what he has without counting pesos every time he reaches into his pocket when a need arises.

Very simply if you can´t afford or don´t want to help someone you call a ¨girlfriend¨ to subside then I sure am glad that I am not a victim of Hurricane Katrina depending upon your aid.

kat1 (Moderator) says on Sep 5, 2005, 06:11:

I agree with you Viwepoint, if you're going to send and winge about better don't send. see what's happends if it mean to be. y punto eh ave maria que cosa

engage brain before opening mouth

kernow62 says on Sep 5, 2005, 06:40:

Calling your girl 2 or 3 times a day? Seems a tad excessive, hopefully her boss doesn't mind. If I called my wife here in the US that many times a day she would lose her job and she would suspect I didn't trust her.

brunito says on Sep 5, 2005, 07:02:

the only times I've sent money to her in Colombia were for english courses because I was pushing her to attend some more and I said I would help her out pay tuition fees. I think it has cost me maybe 500,000 COP over the last 3 years so she's probably paying a part of it.

i have also sent her money to reserve hotels (El Dorado in Ctg for example) or our flights together between Ctg and San Andres.

when we've been to other cities visiting friends and families, we've always stayed at their places and even though I wanted to leave a small allowance for the troubles, I've always been told that my presence was enough of a gift and not to bother with that.

I've even been made to understand by friends and or familly that they would be offended if i insisted on leaving a gift (monetary or otherwise) as a thank you.

4 years ago she did ask me to help her out with paying her last tuition fee at University for her accountig degree (she's a certified accountant down in CTG). She told me she needed no more then 300,000 COP and she would give it back to me as soon as she was better financially.

Her former employer had just went under, she had not worked for about 2 months (without telling me) and she'd just found another job in accounting. I was able to confirm all of this.

I sent her the money but not wanting to pay Western Union's fees, I sent her a cashier's check from a canadian bank in USD.

She got it but exchangin proved to be a pain in the at #$ (colombian banks wanted to freeze the money for 6 monhs)

She sent it back to me and I told her I would send her some with Western Union (wich I always use now) and she told me not to bother because she was now better financially and that she had managed to pay the tuition fee.

It's the only time she's ever asked me for help.

Like I said, when I send her money it's either for english classes wich I've strongly suggested to her to take so it's normal I help her out or when we plan vacations.

Anyway, my 2 cents.

Crazy4Cali says on Sep 5, 2005, 08:25:

An opposing "viewpoint" The sense of entitlement expressed by viewpoint is, to me, a bit troubling. By his/her reasoning those with less should expect more from those with more. I guess they are entitled to that perspective, but there are alot of people who take pride in what they have and that they have it through their own hard work and perseverence not from some handout. Fortunately, not everyone (in Colombia or anywhere else in the world) shares viewpoint's viewpoint where those rich foreign bastards should just send all their extra money to their poverty-stricken girlfriend in Colombia. There are many who value honor, integrity, and hard work.

There will always be people with more than you have and people with less. Ironically, many people with a fortune don't feel they have enough while others with little more than a roof over their head feel they have more than they need and look forward to sharing it with others. (Believe it or not, not everyone in those foreign countries is a sitting on their fat ass squandering their money).

The problem with viewpoint's viewpoint is that encouraging it just breeds a larger sense of entitlement--of deserving money for nothing just because someone else has it and they don't. You end up with people unwilling to work, because, hey! why should then when they can just get money from someone who is willing to work.

If it's all about the money, what makes that different from prostitution? (Remember, engaging in Prostution is grounds for denial of a U.S. Visa.) But, I'm not going to stop anyone from having a contractual relationship based on money (i.e. no money, no more relationship....Hmmmm, that still sounds like prostitution, to me), if that's what you're looking for. But if you're looking for one based on love, the money issue will certainly complicate things.

Mario says on Sep 5, 2005, 08:55:

brunito Search: "usps.com" or "Seguro Dinero" on this site and you will find by far, a much better alternative to the thieving costs of sending money via Western Union.

poco says on Sep 5, 2005, 17:29:

This thread has a huge potential Even though I was married, I did not support my wife while we were apart and she was still living in Colombia. She had an ATM card on an account that she could get a little emergency money but she continued to support herself from her salary.

In my opinion UC’s post is correct but there will be special circumstances but I can’t think of one right now. Well,, maybe you found them in an anorexic condition on the street.

How about who sends the MOST ??? and gets,, their moneys worth? Know any women who won the Gringo lottery? Subjective I guess. Here is mine.

We visited a girl friend in a town outside Cali. She was about 30, very attractive and lived in a beautiful small house. Much more than I’d have expected, new furniture patio washer. They were decorating the living room but the den off the kitchen was complete.

We went to a fish farm that served “fresh fish� outside town. Came back, looked at some stores, had coffee, sent her home by cab and we left by bus.

I commented how well she was living and what was her “occupation�,, well,, that was NOT her house she lived with her mother. The house belonged to her sister, the girl that dropped in to say Hi,, and that guy,, he was her sisters boy friend. Wow,, her sister DID look NICE, rightly so, silicone and lipo will do your figure wonders.

Is her boyfriend rich? Noooooo, not that one,, the rich boy friend lived in Miami and sent her $2,000 U.S. Dollars per month. Wow,, that is a LOT of money,, she now owned two other houses, rented one and she and her boyfriend lived in the other.

What did the boyfriend in Miami expect? maybe a girlfriend with big t*ts but he did expect her not to be keeping a boy friend.

She told him she needed help with her family, needed the house, of course furniture etc. I doubt he knew the FAMILY HELP was probably $300,000 pesos a month max. Gezzz back then that was,,, 5-1/2 MILLION pesos a month.

When he flew in her sister would move back with their mother and she’d be waiting with open arms in THEIR house…. I guess the boy friend had a “boys night out� for a week or so. TRUE LOVE,, I need to check how long this lasted.

The house switch made this story "special"..

So,, any verifiable ‘better’ stories costing more money.

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

Gomezman5 says on Sep 5, 2005, 17:57:

UC ,,,,,is right on the $$ In UC's typically short, but to the point style, he nails it right on the head. If you send the money, she is laughing all the way to the.......(come to think of it, she probably doesn't have a bank account). She does not need one. You're it !! Enough said.

viewpoint says on Sep 5, 2005, 19:12:

Crazy4Cali I am not talking about entitlement or handouts but rather SHARING if you know what that means. What comes through your posts clearly is that you are not a sharing person. If sharing equals prositution then I wonder where you have learned that. Everyone that donates to the Red Cross or other social causes is involved in aiding prositution ? You have a lot a learn about life and people. There isn´t an ounce of trust in your body.

I have shared with other people in Colombia less fortunate than me and it´s came back to me 100% fold (or more). No one ever asked me for money but rather when I saw a need that needed to be taken care of like education or emergency situations that otherwise couldn´t be met I sometimes rose to the occassion as the last resort. Does that make me a sucker NO it makes me feel better as it didn´t change my life style doing it.

As to your statement "There are many who value honor, integrity, and hard work" I find that more common in Colombian people who (the majority) work their ass to the bone for so damn little than I find in the USA. If members of your family were living in proverity then by your analyis you wouldn´t provide them with finanical help. What´s the difference between helping your family members and helping your girlfriend or wife-to-be ?

Crazy4Cali says on Sep 5, 2005, 20:17:

The difference is... sharing vs. entitlement.

Sharing is a voluntary gift. It is neither expected nor demanded. Entitlement, on the other hand, is something that is expected and often demanded. As you say "No one ever asked you for anything..." and that's fine. The problem arises when "voluntary sharing" becomes an expected monthly source of income. In the original poster, the girlfriend was negotiating her stipend. BIG DIFFERENCE, IMNSHO.

Sharing is perfectly fine, but when the relationship lasts only as long as the money is flowing, then there is little difference between that and outright prostituion. Well on second thought, there's a big difference, the donating gringo is 4000 miles from his hooker.

poco says on Sep 5, 2005, 20:53:

No problem ? Every day your so-called girlfriend is making choices of which meal she can eat, walking instead of riding because she has no money or taking a bus because she can´t afford a cab while you are sitting on your fat ass in some foreign country wasting more money than it would take to share with a SO-CALLED love one (GF) while she is living in proverty (by USA standards).

Viewpoint: This is just flat wrong. You can easily RUIN a persons image and self sufficiency. It seems to me incomprehensible to send money that elevates a persons status for NO REASON. It almost seems you are belittling their efforts. You seem clueless as to how these people live and what they do in an attempt to better themselves through their own effort.

Accepting money is prostitution if they genuinely like the person and is an enormous NO-NO, especially in a rural community. I know this for a fact and it is the thinking of MORE than the majority.

The entire girl friend, lover, sex partner has ridged definitions. This probably has evolved due to 50 years of war and the resulting poverty and no opportunities.

When I’m gone she may tell me she was “taking a shift� for a friend who works at the bakery-coffee shop or restaurant. Probably 10 plus hours on her feet and the pay might be 10 or 12 thousand pesos. That is the going rate, about FIVE DOLLARS or 50 cents an hour and NO ONE tips.

I read into your post that you might believe I should send her $50 more dollars or so a month,, right? NO, not right because employment defines her self worth and ANY employment where I live is worth while. I think I could easily ruin her self image by belittling her efforts. My biggest problem is to determine how she can make more money and I’ve found it almost impossible, so I leave it alone.

I reread the posts and have no problem with what Crazy4cali has posted. Except this:
Is it normal for colombian boyfriends (with good jobs) to support their girlfriend if she in unemployed?

I don’t know if it is normal but in the rural area where I live it seems more the rule than the exception. Last time I was there I noticed a estrado 1 house with new paint. I knew a young girl 18 or 19 lived there with her mother, no children. I also know they are very poor, she works but at her age and no education it was very little money. I doubt the entire household income is 300,000 pesos per month. She had a policeman boyfriend. He had arranged to have their house painted and the kitchen bath area “fixed�. The girl I’m with said he might have spent 500,000 pesos for the fixup and addition. Who knows the exact amount but it would have been a huge part of his monthly income.

I believe one problem with the U.S. is that people will NOT work for little money because they have determined how to get by w/o working. There will NEVER be any opportunity for these people. They might as well be in prison with 3 hots and a cot and a TV room.

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

flaleo says on Sep 6, 2005, 09:56:

hey kernow, that post cracks me up...

her boss doesn't care (know) when i call her at home, so many days she receives no call at work... but luckily with a 10-12 hour/day job comes sufficient time to rest or accomplish a personal need, including a quick phone call.

it's not like we talk for hours per call, frequently it's a call to ask a simple question.

DonkeyDust says on Sep 6, 2005, 11:32:

Not helping can only be because of a fear of getting suckered. First I guess everyone knows one of Mexicos biggest national resources is money sent from relatives in the USA to relatives in Mexico.
My ex gf (2 years) Colombiana from bogota in vancouver regularly sent part of her $8/hr minimum wage to an uncle in Colombia and the others in her family were doing it also.
This is perhaps because of strong family values that go deeper than what us gringos are used to.

That being said I am concerned not to be used also. I had a girfriend, Patrcia, in Mexico and after we paid for the day for Patricia and also for an unexpected guest and her son that turned up I told her I didnt mind paying for us but I am afraid the whole village will turn up eventually.

By the way the total bill was $20 or 30 for the day at a little resort on Stone Island and Patricia drove myself and 2 buddies there.

Patricia came to breakfast with me the next morning and my buddies were already there. She stold them: "I invited the village but they said they already had breakfast". What a great sense of humor and her response was to help me even more with keeping expenses down as I was there for 6 weeks.

Still I paid for her as I am sure we all expect to do, but it was not expensive. this shows to me that she was not a gold digger and she cared that I should not be put in a financial position that is uncomfortable.

I appreciated it and I still would be lucky to marry such a wonderful girl but long distance makes it hard as I won't commit until I am 1000000% sure.

I would give a spare ATM card to a GF though and help her out a bit. I fill it here and she drains it there.
If I am comfortable I would like to have a guest house of some sort and if she ran it when I was away (3 to 4 months / year) she would have her own extra cash earasing any chance she feels less than worthwhile.
Is that a good idea?
I would have to come back some and she would accompany me sometimes I am sure.

Latitudes attitudes & platitudes.

mikecolombia says on Sep 6, 2005, 19:35:

Your comment about Americans Most Americans aren't stupid enough to work for a little money.
As far as the question asked about how much he should send, $200 is more than enough until they get married. That is a month's wage in Colombia if your not a professional, and apparently she isn't.

utopiacowboy says on Sep 6, 2005, 21:42:

So you don't think she's a pro, Mike?

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

cam0940 says on Sep 7, 2005, 05:43:

If you pay $2000 a month spousal support for a #$% at ! on her way OUT the door, surely you can pay $600 a month for a beautiful partner on the way in. There are a lot of guys here paying spousal support and/or child support because the court says you have to maintain their "standard of living" etc and these guys aren't considered bobos. We men tend to empathize with them and their duty.

Seems like you ought to be far more willingly support your fiancee.

As I wrote earlier, if you are trying to keep this up indefinitely, say years on end, then that's a different story. I wouldn't send regular money to her if we weren't engaged. But if you've proposed, she's wearing your ring, she's done her part down there to get the visa, why not give her a little cash during the 3 month process before you're together? For WHATEVER purpose? I was mocked for talking about getting her hair and nails done. So what? That's what she's going to do here. I don't think it cripples the relationship if she starts a month or two early. I don't think it means the relationship is based on money, because she said yes to your proposal before you started helping improve the quality of her life.

One person says it undermines what she could earn herself. If that pride is part of who she is, it wouldn't disappear when she arrives in your home country. So by that logic, you shouldn't take care of her here either. That's just stupid.

When you're in a relationship, you want all boats to rise.

The OP said he was specifically talking about his fiancee. So she obviously said "Yes" to him without him sending a regular stipend. So how can all you guys say that his relationship is based on him sending her money?

In the "home stretch", that is, between proposing and actually saying "I do", you should already be treating your fiancee like a spouse. This includes fidelity, commitment, etc. The whole shot. That can include helping her financially. Even if she DOESN'T need it for something serious. If you can't afford to spend a few hundred dollars a month on your wife, that's one thing. But if you CAN, and you know she's making $5 a day and has nothing left over to enjoy herself, seems to me that if this is to be your WIFE you would try to make her last 10-12 weeks a little more comfortable for her.

cam0940 says on Sep 7, 2005, 05:54:

I might also add, in any long distance relationship, even in the same country, and even if you're not sending money, you need to be reasonably comfortable with your partner's fidelity. Recognizing that comes with experience. If you are with a girl who would play you, then you've made a fatal error in judgment to begin with. If money becomes an issue later on, it's just an additional reason for her to continue doing it. But the problem is the character of the woman you chose in the first place. Getting taken for money is a consequence of your failure to judge character, which is the real problem.

Crazy4Cali says on Sep 7, 2005, 06:28:

I don't completely disagree... ...but there's a big difference between court-ordered support payments and voluntary colombianita payments. The only reason the aforementioned gringos are paying support is because they have been ordered to. I don't think ANY of them are doing it voluntarily.

That said, whether it's a "bobo" thing or not comes down to how you feel about the yourself and your relationship. Some people send money because they feel insecure emotionally and feel the money will is necessary to keep the relationship. Some send money because their colombianita is pressuring them with all sorts of bogus (but heart-wrenching) reasons. Some are sending money because they know it will be used purposely for some common goal.

Of course it's hard to tell which case is which over the internet. Especially since those that have to ask, usually don't have much of a cultural context to say, "My girl is playing me" or the self-esteem to say "I'm such a wimp that if I don't send money, my girl will leave me and I'll never find another like her."

So let your conscience be your guide and "trust but verify."

toneloc24 says on Sep 7, 2005, 08:01:

Crazy4Cali Gotta agree with you.

As a "for instance" of what can happen when one of these dudes fail to correctly judge character, check out the "Looking for Lowell in Panama" thread (http://poorbuthappy.com/colombia/node/12855). The dude meant well, but just got taken for his money and played. Now he doesn't know what to do.

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

mikecolombia says on Sep 7, 2005, 08:09:

So you think she's a pro, Mike? No, she's just a woman! I'm not saying she's a pro nor a bad woman. If a person is being abused financially or whatever, I personally put the blame on the person themself. Use your big head instead of your little one, and If she is a good woman; she'll respect you more for it. In any relationship it is "give" and "take", and it has to balance out. I married a Colombian woman, and I had the same problem you have now. I did the exact same thing you did, and it caused alot of problems when she came here thinking that I had alot of money; which caused alot of problems our first 2 years of marriage. But it in the end, we grew together and now have balance in our lives. She contributes just as much as I do now.
I really don't want to give you any advice on this woman, because I really don't know her. She might be a good woman or bad woman, or you might be a bad or good man. Who knows? hard to say from a computer screen.
But it doesn't matter, $200 a month will suffice until your atleast married. .

Crazy4Cali says on Sep 7, 2005, 08:33:

Cultural differences One thing seems evident from a lot of these postings and that the gringos seem to be unaware of the psychology going on.

Sometimes (and again, it's hard to say which times through the internet) the woman really wants the man to say "no" when she's asking for money and things like that. She'll never tell you this, of course, but when you say "no" you appear strong and in-charge. When you say "how much" you appear weak and a pushover.

It's all part of the mating "game." A game that not many gringos are particularly good at playing. Game maybe a bad word. "Dance" might be better (not that many gringos are good at that, either). It's part of the way to understand the other person's character. This can be played consciously or unconsciously, but it is almost always played.

If she really needs the money, she might ask, but it's better if you sense the need (i.e. read the clues) and offer some limited amount rather than wait for her to ask and "give in." The net result might be the same in that she'll get the money for whatever it is, but the appearance and impression will be vastly different. There's no reason to vastly improve her lifestyle until you've signed the paper and she's living with you. (the Fiance stage is a grey area, admitedly)

One problem with meeting during a vacation is you can unintentionally give the perception that your "vacation" life is a reflection of your "normal" life and the pobrecita colombianita can be in for a major shock when she finds out differently.

But, in general, if sending money is necessary to sustain the relationship, you are just renting her and it will never be permanent.

mikecolombia says on Sep 7, 2005, 18:58:

I can tell crazy4cali that you don't know too much about gringos. A matter a fact,I don't think you know too much about the world either; and most gringos that write to this site are a little higher on the maturity level than you are apparently. We've played this game your talking about since you were in diapers. The gringos on this sight just choose not to play this game. The women you're talking about are still little girls still trying to find out who they are and where they are going, but don't know how to get it.

Crazy4Cali says on Sep 7, 2005, 19:27:

Nope I don't know "jack" about gringos.

However, I have to ask, if so many are "hip" to the game, why does the same question keep coming up over and over? Is it just the one clueless gringo posting under different names?

I don't think so.

poco says on Sep 7, 2005, 20:23:

Be careful MM says: she came here thinking that I had alot of money

If you are new to Colombia it would be almost impossible not to get caught in this trap.

Your actions are probably NO Different than dating in the U.S. I don’t know of a single person who Doesn’t want to make a good impression especially in the beginning.

Take your Colombian girl out for a nice evening a stay in an expensive hotel, $250.00 ? This is at least equal to $1,200 in the U.S. You are giving her a false impression, unless of course you WOULD spend $1,200 in the U.S. for a similar date. You could TRY to explain,, I'd find that difficult.

Colombia is different, the girl may not understand your financial conditions and/or can’t relate. I always joke about having a maid in a rural town costs less than a washing machine.

My neighbors are both are school teachers, have a car, maid and are gone at least one weekend a month with their 13 years old daughter. This girl has NEVER been required to do anything except study. The maid comes in early, cooks breakfast everyone goes to work / school. Maid changes the sheets, hand washes the clothes, hangs them on the line, sweeps etc. then they come back for a waiting hot lunch. Dinner is the same.

First time I encountered this it was IMPRESSIVE. Asked me if I wanted something to drink and I said do you have coffee? Woman asked her maid to get us coffee and a while later the maid came in with a tray. At the time I didn't know she had a maid.

Being a school teacher and living this way is not common but with two !!! This is the life of riley. I can almost see the disappointment when she comes to the U.S. with her RICH husband.
Be careful not appear to be Donald Trump only to have her find out you are a motor cycle mechanic.

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

cam0940 says on Sep 8, 2005, 17:40:

Toneloc Thanks for listing that post about the guy that got played. All I can say is "Damn." Poor guy seemed nice enough, and under the circumstances I don't want to be critical of him. What's done is done. I will say that never in a million years would I be caught dead in that situation. Little too much game for that.

toneloc24 says on Sep 8, 2005, 23:12:

Cam0940 I just thought that thread completely relevant to this subject here. Some of these dudes see the beauty, but don't understand the culture at all. That dude made many, many mistakes in the process that common sense should have accounted for. Blinded by the beauty.

Of course, every Colombiana is not a gold-digger. However, you must have your eyes wide open, because some end up being just that. Some of these dudes are doing things with their girlfriends/fiances in Colombia that they would NEVER do with any girlfriend/fiance in the USA or Canada or Europe.

Helping out occasionally your girlfriend/fiance is one thing. I have done so, and feel no way about doing so on occasion. Many highly functional relationships in Colombia do not have monthly maintenance fees included. So the whole $600/month or $2500/month thing before getting married to any chick in Colombia, is quite bizarre to me.

I recently showed this thread to one of my Colombian friends who migrated up here to Atlanta, married his girlfriend back in Bogota a few years and brought her up as well. He just laughed and said, those dudes are complete idiots and getting played left and right. That it was not normal at all.

There was much more that he shared, but I'll keep it clean and leave it at this. His girlfriend had a decent profession (nothing extravagant, but not minimum wage either) and lived within her means. If the monthly support expectation became a requirement, he said he would have dropped her, as there were too many other quality beautiful women available to replace her with. And yes, he did state that he helped her out when she needed it most. Needs, not wants. That was not a regular occurrence as she is/was full of pride.

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

cam0940 says on Sep 9, 2005, 07:47:

Well Tone, for the record, I don't send my girlfriend regular money either. I have sent her money on occasion though. She had a kidney infection, no insurance, I paid the doctor's bill and the medication. I loaned her Dad $100 one time, he paid it back on his payday. And maybe 2 or 3 similar instances over time. Nothing I wouldn't do for a friend or family member here. I will grant that the EXPECTATION of an ALLOWANCE looks bad. I just don't know if sending her money in and of itself automatically means she's playing the guy. Seems to me if he was paying attention there would be other evidence. Put that evidence together with the expectation of a stipend, he ought to be able to see what's going on.

For example, if every other week she comes to you with a Charlie Brown sob story about how she needs another break off to pay this or that, you have to ask yourself some questions. Nobody has that much bad luck. But then again, you'd ask yourself the same questions if it was a local girlfriend, friend, or family member too.

toneloc24 says on Sep 9, 2005, 08:15:

Cam As stated, needs, not wants. I completely understand, and have helped out my friends in times of utter need. Again, not a big deal to me, as it wasn't regular nor expected. I didn't completely agree with everything my buddy told me, but he made some interesting points along the line.

Sending the money does not automatically mean that she's playing the guy. Every situation is different. However, the expectation does sets up future entitlement expectations. Again, these dudes are doing things with Colombianas that they wouldn't do in their normal relationships. Why? Therein lies your common sense/BS detector (paying attention) deficiency. Blinded by the beauty.

The OP already stated that he and his fiance came to a "general agreement" that $600USD/month was sufficient. In Colombia, of course it is sufficient, LOL!!!

I do find it interesting that many people here in the USA call for the abolishment of welfare, yet we have cases of American guys setting up their own welfare system.

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

cam0940 says on Sep 9, 2005, 08:45:

Well all we can do is hope for the best. He did say that they came to a "general agreement". I wonder what she was negotiating with. Did she agree to take on extra expenses such as English lessons? Was this done because she was changing/leaving a job somehow for his benefit? What was she bringing to the table to negotiate an agreeement?

The OP never said anything about that. It makes it look like he brings money to the table and she's charging for her time.

Crazy4Cali says on Sep 9, 2005, 09:11:

Geez Loueeez!!! WRT: "The OP already stated that he and his fiance came to a "general agreement" that $600USD/month was sufficient. In Colombia, of course it is sufficient, LOL!!!"

$600/mo is what a lot of full-time JOBS (you know, the kind you have to show up to every day) pay. And many hard-working Colombians work 50-60hr weeks to make that.

If that's what it costs to support her in Colombia, all I can say is be ready with 3-4 times that once she gets to Gringolandia where everything is more expensive.

I hope she's worth it.

I hope the OP is ready to shell out even more in alimony when she dumps him in a couple of years.

What a deal. She'll be on the beach with her latest surfer while our pour unfortunate gringo will be working overtime to send the alimony (or whatever they call it in your state).

America...the land of opportunity.

miamimike says on Sep 9, 2005, 10:24:

Crazy4Cali--and they all end up in Miami most of the time jaja Many cases you describe end up down here. Seems the Ladies like the Weather(Hurricaaaaanes, high rent prices, lousy driving and all). Got to go Miami where everything will be all right!! A fresh Start jaja. Heard and saw this 100 times if if I saw it once-could write a book! haha

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,

caslug says on Sep 9, 2005, 11:19:

helping here and there is one thing.. regular monthly payment is another. I think all the posters AGAINST sending money were against REGULAR monthly payments, just seem to welfare-ish) or at least if you send regular payment it should be to cover the basic neccestities, school, rent/food, maybe utilities, not so they have extra money to go drinking, gambling or shopping. They can easily get that spending money with their jobs.

But hey, if you got the dough and want to do for your OWN pleasure then there's nothing wrong with giving them monthly stipends.

CaryGrant says on Sep 9, 2005, 15:34:

based on the responses of many of you, you will not be supporting your wives in the United States, because that would destroy her self-worth, and make her a prostitute.

Self-worth does not come from a paycheck, or how much you earn. That reminds me of the 1950s attitude that "women's work" was of little value because it consisted primarily of maintaining the household and raising the children. This contribution to the family was judged be of less value than the man's paycheck, and was one of the reasons child and spousal support had to be legislated.

Not every man who chooses to support his wife or fiancée is a fool who is being played, nor is every woman who is supported by her husband or fiancé a prostitute.

Crazy4Cali says on Sep 9, 2005, 15:50:

say what?! It's completely different when she's married and living in the same house.

1. the couple has a confirmed and legal relationship
   
2. the couple shares household finances i.e. she has claim to half the income, however, she is also liable for half the debt and expenses
   
3. the couple shares household chores and child care in what ever form makes sense under the circumstances
   

viewpoint says on Sep 9, 2005, 15:57:

CRAZY4CALI You must be in your early twenties and never been married yet. You are in for a RUDE awakening. Please print a copy of your post so that you can keep it for future reference when and if you ever get married.

Crazy4Cali says on Sep 9, 2005, 17:31:

I wish! I wish I was in my twenties (early or otherwise).

What part did I get wrong?

1. marriage is, at the very least, a legal partnership. Hopefully it's more than that.
   
2. legally, after having all this explained during my divorce, the wife is half-owner to all community property and half-liable to all community debt. Whether she has a job and contributes financially to the community property or not depends on the woman and the relationship.
   
3. If there are kids, you might share childcare by the man making the money and the woman spending it on daycare, groceries, toys, or whatever, but, like I said, how things are divided depend on the nature (and the health) of your relationship
   

cam0940 says on Sep 9, 2005, 17:43:

Don't jump on Crazy4Cali's case prematurely. Actually, he's got it right. And he's not an inexperienced twentysomething. The only area where he and I may not disagree on is that I think that once you've passed that "point of no return", you may start treating her like a wife.

Not that I do it. I help my fiancee as needed, but I don't give her a regular allowance.

But I could see a guy who's basically in the home stretch on his way to getting married, he's established that he's not being played, and he wants to give his girlfriend a little something extra to make her more comfortable. I could see that. WRT how she got by before he came along well, at some point, which will be different for everyone, I don't think it's a crime to improve her standard of living a little bit. This is a terrible analogy I'm about to use but I'm gonna do it anyway: I don't think it's so wrong to let a child open a Christmas gift on Christmas Eve as compared to waiting till Christmas morning. Terrible analogy, but conceptually I think you know where I'm coming from.

Now, financing her lifestyle while the relationship is still developing is another story altogether.

mikecolombia says on Sep 9, 2005, 20:32:

On second thought crazy4cali, I believe that I changed my mind about you now that I've read all of your postings. I don't believe in everything you say about gringos. I don't think Colombians are different than gringos when it comes to women. I don't think a man in Colombia is anymore capable of figuring out the woman than any other man in the world. The woman is the most complicated unpredictable creature on earth. I think the difference lies in the fact that there are 3 women to every man in Col., and the colombian male doesn't stick arround long enough for it to get too complicated. Sorry if I insulted you on the earlier postings.........Mikecolombia

miamimike says on Sep 9, 2005, 21:07:

Been there, done that! I would have to agree with Crazy4cali- I would never send money on a continual basis while living long distance here in the USA or elsewhere(canada, europe)That would change if we were legally married but NOT until then; An occassional gift OK, but not a huge sum like $500 or more. Sorry, seen the game too too often!And I'm not in my 30s either!

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,