Is corruption part of south american culture

quindioman says on May 13, 2005, 10:36:

corruption is seen everywhere.... even in so called "DEVELOPED" COUNTRIES....at least we "third world countries" need the money to feed our families....what's the excuse of the crooked US cop?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

juanalejo says on May 13, 2005, 11:05:

Corruption comes with poverty in low levels of society and comes with greed in high levels. That is why poor countries like Colombia have crook cops and crook politicians, and that is why countries like the US have less of the first but the same of the second.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

dr75200 says on May 13, 2005, 11:38:

Corruption I believe their is just as much corruption in the U.S. as Latin America. The only difference is that in the U.S. its done behind closed doors.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

ARMacleod says on May 13, 2005, 11:51:

In the UK Corruption is not only legal for politicians, it is a mandatory activity. It is almost on a par with lying and greed. Here it is expected. If a politician in England was ever suspected of being honest, god forbid, the whole parliamentary system would fall.

My novia was refused a visa because she was given rubbish information from a gopher in the British embassy, we lost the money already tendered.

David bloody Blunket (Parliamentary labour party) fiddled the visa for his ex girlfriends nanny. He had to resign Five months ago.

Last week he was back in parliament with a top government job.

Corruption? We could teach the Colombians a thing or two on that subject.

F*** off kerry!

Being of unsound mind and dubious disposition, I cannot be held legally liable for any indiscretions."¡El diablo me hizo hacerlo!" But don't worry, be happy.

The brain is like a parachute, it only functions correctly when it is open. Pax vobiscum.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

SingSling says on May 13, 2005, 11:59:

Silly James, you have been reading the tabloid press too much, if that is the worst example of corruption you can come up with count yourself lucky to be in the UK.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

poco says on May 13, 2005, 12:00:

Informed at least we "third world countries" need the money to feed our families

So what you’re saying cockney is that immorality and perversion practiced by people with vile dishonest disgusting personalities can be excused if they are feeding their families because of economic conditions?

Do you personally know any in Colombia? The use of our and prior posts indicates a vast knowledge of Colombia stretching over decades should enable you provide a few Colombian examples of how you gained this insight.

Or maybe there is some other definition of Corruption you have in mind for these Third world countries?

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

0 funny, 0 helpful.

SingSling says on May 13, 2005, 12:04:

Should answer the question. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_perception_of_corruption

0 funny, 0 helpful.

sandramoreno80 says on May 13, 2005, 12:05:

I agree with you there dr75200, which country's politicians haven't been involved with any type of sleaze or corruption, such as any sly back handers?

Just now in the news over here in the UK have been the accusations of sleaze involving former Labour MP Galloway with Sadam in Iraq with the Oil For Food programme.

My aunt in Colombia tells me all the time about how things work in Colombia. She works with Civil Engineers and it is so common place for part of the monies paid out for a contract to be "returned" to the officer who conceded the contract, how the whole tendering system was just a sham and the contracts are allocated to the persons in charge's friend. Can I say that this does not occur in the UK? Well I can't comment on that because I don't know anyone in that environment here.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

ARMacleod says on May 13, 2005, 12:09:

SingSling No my dear fellow. That just happens to be one of many that has affected me personally. In most countries it is normally an open or overt affair. Here it is very covert, and can normally be justified or covered up,if it is revealed. I could write a book on the system here but I would probably 'dissapear'

James.

The brain is like a parachute, it only functions correctly when it is open. Pax vobiscum.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

SingSling says on May 13, 2005, 12:11:

Crime vs Corruption There are certainly criminals in every society, corruption is different, it is the systematic use of position to grant favours and enrich oneself or ones friends/relatives. If you know to get something done you have to bribe someone (such as winning a contract or obtaining planning permission) that is corruption, if someone diverts money to himself that is theft and if proved will be punished.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

SingSling says on May 13, 2005, 12:12:

James Yeah right.... like a bit of melodrama do we?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

quindioman says on May 13, 2005, 12:41:

poco i'm only trying to justify it on the grounds that these people are not born with a silver spoon in their mouth as most people in north america are....corruption is wrong full stop...my post was a sarcastic reply to the original post which i felt is trying to generalise Colombians as a whole....yes we have corruption in Colombia....but my point is that corruption is universal and with that I concluded that at least this person is trying to feed his family...i never used the words immoral, pervert...
as for knowing any in Colombia...my friend I extend a personal invitation to come see me in Armenia...I would be more than happy to walk through a few barrios and point out a few people who I would not class as dishonest or vile but they need to put food on the table and if they need to do it by unconventional means...
know i don't have a vast wealth of knowledge on Colombia but I feel I have more than the necessary experience needed to post a comment like the one I did....
in case you had missed my prior posts i happen to be a colombian who was born in Colombia...to colombian parents...my granddadies were colombian (all 4 of them) i have only 1 passport too and that like the owner is 100% Colombian....i leave the googling to others....
Viejo ...estas mas que bienvenido a Armenia....es no mas que diga mijo

0 funny, 0 helpful.

quindioman says on May 13, 2005, 13:04:

or perhaps you're infinately better qualified than i am//.....

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Lionheart says on May 13, 2005, 13:36:

I disagree in one point ** these people are not born with a silver spoon in their mouth as most people in north america are **

To me this is a wrong perception of reality in the USA. I agree that the middle and upper classes in the USA have a higher percentage compared to many other countries, but the majority? I also doubt that corruption can be directly connected to poverty, I believe that a person needs to add greed and selfishness to the average corruption case. The so-called emergency opportunity for corruption to help an urgent need is only a small percentage overall in this equation. I also think that most people without the silver spoon are not alone in the gambit, they depend on key players to cooperate.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

quindioman says on May 13, 2005, 13:47:

exactly..... ...i'm talking about the poor bleeding colombian peasant that has to put food on the table not white collar corruption (on that subject i can say next to nothing)....as for the silver spoon bit...don't the USA control something like 90% of wealth? or even if it's 80% or soemthing it's still high, and compared to "third world countries" these guys don't have a silver spoon but a platinum and gold plated one

0 funny, 0 helpful.

poco says on May 13, 2005, 13:48:

cockney Cockney,, I posted the definition of corruption.

Yes,, I’ve read all your posts. Very impressive,,, you only made one BIG mistake,, unscrewing a few light bulbs from a fixture will reduce the electric cost.

However,, compared to previous posts, in the last week you have degenerated to inane out of topic babble. Why is that? Have you given up on posting interesting responses or topics?

Sorry,, it seems quite impossible a poor person can feed his family by being corrupt. Corruption requires them to have something of value. You need FIND another thread or topic to play the sympathy children starving, dying card.

I intend to purchase treated Guadua in Armenia mid to late June. Think there was a big outdoor restaurant coming in from Tulua. Assume you’ll be around ehh?

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

0 funny, 0 helpful.

quindioman says on May 13, 2005, 14:12:

in 2 deep.... i wave the white flag....i'm not going to get into a debate about corruption....poco it seems you took exception to my sarcastic response to the original post.. i hadn't realised that my post degenerated into inane out of topic babble (I thought i stayed within the boundaries of the topic)...and to trivialise their plight by suggesting i start another thread to play the sympathy card, well i'll ignore that comment...shame I have to be in London when you're in Armenia but I'll drop another post when I'm back home

0 funny, 0 helpful.

maleorange says on May 13, 2005, 15:36:

A few thoughts about what you have said In Britain the British government is obviously corrupt and every government in the world is. what I am saying is the degree of corruption in South America is literarlly 10 times worse. At a high level our politicians may be just as corrupt but they have to make sure they dont do anything too outrageous. They also have to do a certain amount for the people and have to fulfill certain tasks. David Blunkett was sacked because he used his position to get his friends nannny a visa. In Colombia no politician would be sacked for that.
South America has blatant corruption. I think Britain is getting worse especially due to the Iraq war. Lower down the spectrum like the average policeman in Colombia, it does seem that they just dont care about the society they live in. They do next to nothing for people that are victims of crime. The British police have always made an effort and had a certain level of responsibility.
For developed countries to be where they are you need a certain level of responsibility from people on all different levels. Dont get me wrong The developed countries of this world have some absolutely disgusting corruption.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

quindioman says on May 13, 2005, 16:21:

maleorange.. regarding the police issue i'll take a corrupt colombian cop over an istitutionally racist one...i've got personal experiences with the police in the UK (mind you my brother's had worse), there was only one experience where i was left dumbfounded by the two coppers' generosity (considering the circumstances) but that was certainly the exception and not the rule...i personally feel that in England if you speak little or no english they can take the piss with you...i guess it's a matter of managing a way to integrate in the place one dwells or chooses to dwell in...what was that they said about doing when in Rome?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Sam Salmon says on May 13, 2005, 20:29:

It's All Over Canada Too The latest Canadian Govt is about to fall over a corruption scandal and that's nothing new believe me.






' a la orden!'

' a la orden!'

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Rubiazo says on May 13, 2005, 20:50:

We really don't know.... what kind of corruption goes on at the highest spheres of government, international finance, etc. (or if anybody here does, they are not telling :P)

It's not like shit like that is ever gonna make the 6 o clock news. I think South American journalists are a lot more aggressive (and maybe LESS corrupt) than North American ones, and it makes South American countries LOOK worse. I can't prove it, but it's one of my cherished pet theories. Or maybe its the WASP mentality much of the people with money here have, where they have learned to successfully sweep the elephant under the rug.

I have yet to hear an example of South American corruption that doesnt have its paralell in my experiences in the USA or Canada. Especially in the case of Canada, when you consider how much money they suck from the population in one kind of tax or another, and the immense resources they have in comparison to its relatively small population.

In the Dominican Republic recently, the President bailed out customers of a failed bank, and had to spend a whopping 26% of his country's GDP for that year to do it. The whole country went without electricity for a couple weeks because of this. I don't know if that would fall under corruption or just really poor decision making. But maybe richer countries get away with shit like that because they can do it and keep the lights on at the same time!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

poco says on May 13, 2005, 23:29:

New more recent link The link referred to was DELETED,, one trouble with those FREE sites. This will get you to the Latest Report. The page has a link at the top if you want to see what Transparency International is doing today. Hard to believe the data being compiled.
2004 Corruption Report Ranked by Country

New Zealand moved up and the U.S. is tied with Ireland.

Colombia is still down the list but better than Cuba and Panama.

Corruption is one thing,, ethics another. I think Colombia would rank much higher on an ethics scale.

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

0 funny, 0 helpful.

viewpoint says on May 14, 2005, 04:27:

Corrpution has existed in every country and culture throughout all of recorded history and I am sure much before history was every recorded back to Adam and Eve. It is certainly nothing unique to the south american culture. Colombian laws place much higher legal standards on government and municipal administrators than USA laws and enforcement place on equivilent positions of responsibility in the USA (making the individual personally liabile for any illegal or improper act). Any Colombian can file suit in Colombia to challenge the legality of any public officals action and if successful share in the recovery including the recovery of legal fees and 20% of the financial recovery. For this reason Colombian administrators are very careful about any decision they make being firmed supported by the laws and regulations of Colombia for fear of being sued or challenged. Sometimes they are very resistant to making an decision until being directed from someone further up the chain of legal responsibility relieving them of the legal liability.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

marcitos says on May 14, 2005, 09:48:

How about Corporate America Corruption? Corruption in the Senate, Congress, and the Supreme Court system. Before you start looking into other people's backyard, see what's in yours! How is corruption in South American 10 times worse?

The only reason you don't see it here in the good ol' USA, is because with enough money you can cover it up and put the blame on some one else. It's not what you know, it's who you know! Most of the crimes don't make it to the public, because the one's who are involved are owned by the media.

marcos

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Cerealkiller says on May 15, 2005, 19:27:

I think assuming corruption is part of the Latin American character is quite erroneous. I think corruption is rampant here because the systems are not designed in an efficient fashion when it comes to prevent and fight corruption. Not because its inherent to the character, I am convinced corruption is present everywhere but fighting mechanisms work better in other countries.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

0 funny, 0 helpful.

platano says on May 15, 2005, 19:49:

Corruption in Colombia is decreasing... I make this unequivocal statement by generalizing from one personal experience to all of Colombia. And I refer specifically to corruption on the decrease among the military as I have no experience with the police. The Colombian military is combating corruption in its ranks and is being successful. I think recognition should be given when the ethics ingrained by military training causes a common ordinary soldier at a roadblock to be offended when the taxi driver tried to offer the soldier a bribe because the taxi driver did not have permission to leave the urban perimeter (this between Popayan and Piéndamo). After refusing the taxi driver's offer of a bribe the offended soldier took the driver to the comandante. The driver had to beg them not to take away his taxi. This happened in February 2004. Colombia is changing. Not everyone is on the take.

Plátano, el banano verde
Estudiante del Manual de Urbanidad y Buenas Maneras por Manuel Antonio Carreño
Oxigeno Verde ¡Libertad por Ingrid y los demás!

plátano

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Lionheart says on May 15, 2005, 20:07:

I agree with Cerealkiller Corruption is not a Latin trait, Chile is the best example for cleaning up its act. It is rated in that chart right under the USA, but from what I have been hearing and reading I personally believe there is less corruption there than in many of the other countries listed higher up.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

miamimike says on May 15, 2005, 20:22:

How About Enron..They could't cover that up anymore and all those poor working class enron employees who lost their life savings as many of them invested everything in Enron Stock. Meanwhile the CEO skates free with his Big Bag of Money(very big)happy as a Loon. United airline workers are having their pensions taken over by the Gov. so many stand to lose a share of their pensions. And posibly GM and Ford may follow suit. Scary times here in the US.Glad 75% of my working days are done..The change I have witnessed from my first job to now is nothing short of incredable.

Avatar Legend: Bush "If any of you Reporters are wondering, it was a Size 10"

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Crazy4Cali says on May 15, 2005, 20:25:

that's the difference In Latin America, that is called "corruption," in the U.S. it's called "business." Ergo, they have more corruption.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

miamimike says on May 15, 2005, 20:42:

We do it on a bigger scale here.. I was reading about Florida Health Insurance HMOs in yesterdays Miami Herald Business section and for many HMOs Profits DOUBLED in one year even though insurees dropped by a good shot. Many simply could not afford the monthly premium anymore. This is proving to be a real drag on the US economy as the automakers in the same report said that they have to charge $1500 per Car to cover employees' health insurance.Even The Steel used in the Car is less-$850 per car--that was a surprise! So many companies are dropping the health insurance. Next thing is where does a guy/woman making $10/hr. here in Florida find insurance at a reasonable cost? There isn't any-that is if you have to purchase an Individual policy-looking at a minimum of $500 monthly for a young very healthy Single person-no family. A real dilemma.

Avatar Legend: Bush "If any of you Reporters are wondering, it was a Size 10"

0 funny, 0 helpful.

lpdiver says on May 16, 2005, 12:35:

miamimike Don't forget all us taxpayers, who will shortly have their SS benifits reduced, delayed, or SS tax rate increased.

t

"cook some rice!"

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Mr. Hollywood says on May 16, 2005, 13:05:

Petty Corruption What the 3rd world has more of is "petty corruption". By that, I mean little things like a cop taking a bribe to let you off of a ticket, utility officials demanding personal payment before you get your power turned on, etc.

The US and the rest of the 1st world have every bit as much or more high level corruption.

0 funny, 0 helpful.