Is Colombia Dangerous now? Claro Que Si

morphus says on Dec 27, 2005, 14:49:

Why would you live in Cali after all these incidents? Getting arrested for being a gringo would be enough for me to get the hell out of there.

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litost says on Dec 27, 2005, 14:56:

"I knew if they wanted...They could have killed us both and nobody would ever know."

OK granted, you've had some pretty bad experiences but comments such as this one are just sensationalist garbage. Corrupt police... maybe, but willing to kill and disappear you over an iPod incident, com'on!

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caslug says on Dec 27, 2005, 15:02:

Walter.. sorry to hear about your situations.. i stayed in cali for 7 weeks this october thru november, cali SEEMS to me a little more dangerous than MED(where i spent 4 weeks). That said, i never had ANY problem in cali. I think you are right, you were probably setup. Do you remember the bar or the area of the bar?

I'm very suprise to hear about the shooting near karen's pizza on avienda sexta, i walk by that place all the time when i was in cali. I met another gringo that got robbed at knife point at bancocolombia on avienda sexta at night.

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walter says on Dec 27, 2005, 15:57:

Why? Well I am waiting for my wife's interview at the embassy which will be probably in March. We both want to get the hell out of there. HEHEHHE. Seriously, yea, in about 3 more months, we are raising our new family in the Good Old USA. And just visit Cali for her mother once a year if possible.

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walter says on Dec 27, 2005, 15:59:

No..I don't It was one in Juanchito. It was a thursday night. Thanks for the kind words.

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walter says on Dec 27, 2005, 16:07:

Maybe ??? You go driving from Medellin to Cali in the night, I can almost guarantee you, you will not say "maybe" anymore . Dude, my wife is from Cali, Colombia. And she has stories to tell you that are true. And it wasn't for the IPOD when I made that statement. It was for my pesos in my wallet, my beautiful wife who could have gotten raped and killed, our new car stolen, and all our possesions IS WHAT THEY WILL KILL FOR... "la Plata" money... Do you know that a RIDICULOUS IPOD can feed a Colombia family for a month, pay their utilites, and pay there rent? In this time, IPOD was not even in Colombia yet..He didn't know what the hell he just stoled..TO HIM...it just looked like a new cool expensive gringo toy that he can be sold. LUCKILY it was only an IPOD...$600,000 peso....thats is why we were fortunate..Men with guns and power in a particular location do get greedy..., and when you are all alone in a country road like in Colombia with cars that come by every 20-30 minutes or more if that.., and you got two low paid poor policemen from Medellin, Colombia all alone with guns waiting to search the next rich couple with a car... And they choose what car to pull over and check. And they picked us because we seem to a vulnerable target and we had a nice car. In Colombia, a 2002 small Daiwoo car with 30k..is a very nice ride to steal and sell...That would take care of family money problems for a year in Colombia. Anything is possible. Its not like the US, where they will be an investigation and someone will get caught and executed for murder. Murder is so much easier to get away with than in the USA. Because if you rat on a murderer in Colombia, there will be payback brother..If you ever go there..I hope that you will be safe.. Take care

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 27, 2005, 16:11:

I remember when I wrote that my wife and stepchildren all think that Colombia is no place for an unaccompanied gringo to be wandering around. There was much weeping and wailing about that, it's perfectly safe, blah, blah, blah... Thanks, Walter. More evidence that my wife knows EXACTLY what she is talking about. Good to hear that you are ok.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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caslug says on Dec 27, 2005, 16:18:

cali.. after spending lots of time in cali. I think the only reason that gringos come to cali is there's a int'l airport. If cali had no int'l airport, then it'll be another city but not one that gringos come to. Between the lack of tourist attraction and traffic problems, cali is not a tourist mecca. but i do see lots of gringos especially on avienda sexta..

Walter, i heard that juanchita has gotten more dangerous. That was the main reason why i didnt visit that there, because there's nothing there that other parts/safer parts didnt have.

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ElPadrino1 says on Dec 27, 2005, 18:53:

Walter, Good Post I am surprised some here didn't Pin you down for an EXACT LOCATION to the 1/10 of a mile as to where your incidents happned. To some here, exact Coordinates changes the gravity of the whole scenario! LMAO!! Its like when a group of thugs Rob someone and then the police come and ask the Victim what color Socks or Sneakers the Robbers were wearing-as if this changes anything! You shouldn't be embarrassed to post your story, some, not all, will read it and pay heed and profit by your experience. You made some extremely valid points, Others here in the past have posted their advice on ATM use, Taxis,Bus and Car Travel at night, 2nd wallets(fake and a real one)ect and they have had fun poked at them. Wait 'til something like this happens and maybe they will have wished they payed heed! What's the old saying "Wise men need no advice and fools pay no attention to it(advice) Very True!

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Caballista says on Dec 27, 2005, 19:48:

That happens in Manhattan too My son lives at 46 Ave near Broadway, and a gringo attacked him with a gun and knife, and took USD$300.00. Then it's not safe here either.

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Colombiche says on Dec 27, 2005, 19:53:

Toronto Shooting Yesterday, there was a drive by shooting in broad daylight here in "Toronto the good". 7 people were shot, one of them was a 15 year old innocent by-stander who died. This happened on Dundas and Yonge, Toronto's busiest corner and heart of the city's commercial district.

I guess nobody has any business going down to Yonge and Dundas anymore.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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morphus says on Dec 27, 2005, 20:10:

muggings happen everywhere but its a little unusual when you have to worry about taxi drivers. here in New York, the taxi drivers are more scared of us. of course, if they were only making 30,000 pesos instead of 300,000 pesos aday it would be different.

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rapi2000 says on Dec 27, 2005, 21:07:

It depends on which city/region you are in. Walter,
I am sorry that you and your wife have been through all this ordeal in Cali. I am from Colombia, but I have lived in the USA since long ago. I think Cali AND Medellin are very dangerous places. I feel better in Bogota than in Cali or Medellin. I am from the 'Costa Caribe' and have traveled with my my gringo friends to Col several times, we have not had any problem ever. Of course, we need to be extra cautious in Cali and Medellin, especially. We never travel by car or bus, only plane. (BTW we travel to Colombia twice a year)
All your incidents in Cali are believable, but the one that caught my attention is #4. Did they just arrest you 'out of the blue'? Are you sure you didn't do ANYTHING that provoked the SOB cops to arrest you? I find it hard to believe that they just jumped on you for being a gringo! My wife is a blond/blue gringa who lived in Barranquilla for some years and everywhere she went there on her own they treated her like a queen. She even danced in the Barranquilla Carnival parades, she loves Colombia so much. We all plan to retire there in the future.
Do not feel embarrassed about posting these events. WE ARE the ones who should feel embarrassed that these things happen in our country.
Feliz año nuevo!
RAFA.

rapi2000@yahoo.com

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Sam Salmon says on Dec 27, 2005, 21:31:

"I promised to find this colo "I promised to find this colombian policeman and take care of him."
Bad idea-very fucking bad idea!!!
And you said this out loud in front of other people?
I suggest you find another place to live for a while-your big stupid mouth is going to do you in one way or the other.








' a la orden!'

' a la orden!'

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 27, 2005, 21:38:

You need to follow the "Utopia dog running loose" rule. Shortly after I moved to Utopia I was told by several people that if I was to ever see a dog running loose to immediately shoot it and drag it off and dump it in a ditch without saying a word to anyone. You never see a dog running loose there or if you do you only see it once. No one says a word about killing any stray dogs. You just do it and shut the hell up about it.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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morphus says on Dec 27, 2005, 22:58:

thats how it is everywhere in Jerkwater U.S.A. hicks will come up with any little excuse to shoot a friendly dog dead without a leash. my father had a beautiful labrador retriever at his place in upstate New York. the dog got loose one day and was found dead in the street from a gunshot.

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 28, 2005, 08:30:

The difference between Jerkwater, NY and Utopia, Texas is in Utopia, Texas you never would have seen that dog again. Loose dogs are killers of livestock and wildlife. There is no excuse to have a dog running loose and some of my own dogs have come to that end.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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MrOutis says on Dec 28, 2005, 09:04:

amen Finca dogs bug the shit out of me.

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walter says on Dec 28, 2005, 12:29:

For rapi2000 Well, at this time Rapi2000, we were in Buenaventura...couple hour drive, if I remember right..from cali...My was working there at the time. So the cops there are littel bit more different than in a major city like cali. I quess?

One guy just wanted to check me out..since I was not a usual in that neighborhood...me and my wife just moved there due to her job. And once he found out, where i was from and who I was with my passport...that is all she wrote for that incident...Thanks for your words..Chao

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walter says on Dec 28, 2005, 12:35:

For Sam Salmon "I promised to find this colo
"I promised to find this colombian policeman and take care of him."
Bad idea-very fucking bad idea!!!
And you said this out loud in front of other people?
I suggest you find another place to live for a while-your big stupid mouth is going to do you in one way or the other.
' a la orden!'
By Sam Salmon at Wed, 12/28/2005 - 05:31 | reply

No, NO NO SAM... That isn't want I wanted to say or meant to say. What I meant, and I screwed up on my typing..is the DAS GUY...He promised to find the colombian policeman and would take care of him for being out of line with an extranjero...for no legitimate reason.... My wife was more pissed off than I...She was embarrassed and angry at her own country police...and they way they treated me..Me, I was like...These guys are 20-26 years old..young, ignorant and probably for the first time in their life...they felt they had power..due to the guns and they could do anything..I can kind of relate to them when I was a young new sergeant in the military 15 years ago..
Take care Don

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walter says on Dec 28, 2005, 12:37:

CORRECTION ON MY STATEMENT HE (NOT I) promised to find this colombian policeman and take care of him. I thought that was bull. The only reason my gringo butt got off is because my wife knows people in Cali.

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colombiaboy says on Dec 28, 2005, 12:58:

My stupidity also.. I too was nearly taken advantage of while In Bogota a few years ago.. I just found this website and say thank you to all who give advice and put warnings on here for "US" naive gringos.. When in Bogota for a visit a couple of years ago.. after having lived there for quite awhile before this never happened to me).
I had an experience on Calle 15 that I now read as a TYPICAL SCHEME AND CON by Con People there.. I was walking up Calle 15 and a lady approached me and said she was from Peru and was looking for a tienda for making international calls... stupidly I talked to her and pointed her in the direction of the store( this was in broaddaylight about 11am. Just seconds later a plain clothed man approached me and the lady and said he was undercover drug police and wanted to know what our conversation was about .. then told us we had to go to his office in the Atlants Mall where he asked her and me how much money we had and to see our passports- stupidly I BELIVED ALL THIS.. BUT LUCKILY I didnt have my passport and only a few thousand pesos on me.. after showing him an expired cedula that I had from living there previously he let me go-- I NOW AFTER READING THE ARTICLE OF TYPICAL CONS SCHEMES IN COLOMBIA-- I am sure He was a fake.. and Thank God that I was not schemed... YES I TOO FEEL embarrased.. and stupid.. Maybe I should not consider going back to Colombia to live... because am easily taken advantage.... WHILE LIVING THERE I also remember a time where a lady approched me in daylight for money with a babybottle saying she needed money to buy formula or milk.... .. I had read this as another scheme.. luckily here.. I sadly just kept walking... who knows if it were real or someone was waiting to scheme me.... THANKS FOR THE ADVICE AND INFORMATION I AM GAINING FROM THIS WEBSITE...

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Rubiazo says on Dec 28, 2005, 21:15:

Ok here goes -You are talking about shit that happened in Cali and Buenaventura. Those are two of the worst parts of the country for violent crime. I'm surprised you wouldn't have known this beforehand. Much worse than Medellin and much MUCH worse than Bogota!

-#1 is one of the oldest tricks in the book. I'm REALLY surprised that you would have done such a thing. NEVER take a taxi waiting for you right outside of a club, ANYWHERE on Earth. The one possible exception to this may be Singapore, because apparently you have to by law! Even if you were ignorant of this, I can't believe somebody around you didn't warn you of that!

-#2 happened to me too, but I was in Winnipeg, Canada at the time! It probably happens more frequently in Cali than in most other places these days though, to be fair.

GIB, are you still SURE driving between cities is safer than taking a bus? This is exactly the reason why I would never drive between cities!

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Rubiazo says on Dec 28, 2005, 21:18:

BTW You'll never find my ass on a finca either! But not for either of those reasons.
My hours are from 2 or 3pm till just after the sun comes up in the morning. I don't do daytime well at all. I'd be bored out of my gourd on a finca!

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morphus says on Dec 28, 2005, 23:43:

i always take taxis outside of clubs. so far no problems. if the club is in a desolate area, you don't have much choice. one night in Bogota, i did a dumb thing; i was coming out of a club and got into a regular car with a Colombian guy that offered me a ride. he turned out to be a nice guy and there was no problem. in Medellin, i take rides with people i meet in bars whie drinking all the time. sometimes you get a good vibe.

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morphus says on Dec 29, 2005, 02:38:

i would rather see hicks and rednecks in Jerkwater U.S.A. get shot than the dogs. they carry guns around like it was an extension of their penis. hunting season is the worse. they buy all kinds of hunting gear to kill helpless animals. its not for food or controlling the animals population. they are just a bunch of sadistic fucks. they had bear season over in New Jersey last month. the hunters killed about 300 bears. they love it. humans are way more over populated than any animal on Earth. we should be allowed to hunt humans too.

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quindioman says on Dec 29, 2005, 10:50:

takes a BS artist to know another BS artist......shucks..I really, really, really couldn't contain that one.

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DayTripper says on Dec 29, 2005, 12:25:

Two "incidents" I did have in Cali Two "incidents" I did have during a recent trip in Cali:


1) while having lunch in a restaurant in the centre near Torre de Cali I heard gunshots. Before hiding in the kitchen of the restautant I saw a motor cop shooting at a car speeding away. He was aiming to hit. Strange was that all trafic in the street just drove on. Few minutes after the shooting everything was back to normal.
Also strange that everyone in the restaurant assured me that the quarter was very safe ("este barrio es muy seguro").


2) In one bar also not far from La Sexta there were a bunch of yelling Colombians. Suddenly comes in a guy telling that the police is coming in. In a second everybody disappeared through an alternate exit. Kind of panic. After the police went away the guys who disappeared came back. And they took out the guns they had hidden under the seats of the chairs. I went away. Don't like the combination of guns, liqor, yelling at each other.


I heard that in Cali you certainly should NOT go to the following quarters :
* in centro the San Nicolas, El Clavario and Barrio Obrero. The rest of centro is also not safe at night.
* also don't go to Siloe (south, not far from Calle 5) and Aqua Blanco (also south).


I didn't visit Juanchito, the famous disco area just outside town. I, as a Gringo didn't want to go alone to that area (safety) and couldn't find a reliable Colombian guide.

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dwmte says on Dec 30, 2005, 05:48:

buenaventura..... now that's a frickin joke...who in hell would go to buenaventura for sightseeing or a vacation. it qualifies as colombia's suck hole. there is nothing there but very poor blacks, gators and a sea port.

cali...same applies...just another suck hole.

now to compare medellin with cali is pretty wide of the reality of both cities.

medellin has a shit load of crime and many areas where a local wouldn't go. i.e. nikitau, triste, itagui, east bello, st helena, etc. just going in these places is cause for alarm. it's no different now than it was 15 years ago. remember, shit runs down hill and all of these places are pits. not to mention damned dangerous. it always gets me when someone posts that bello is a good hang. whew! need to know what those posters think of as the pits. another 25 or thirty miles north of bello is barbosa. cool little burg on the surface, but dangerous as hell. used to be a place low level wannabe capos (trafficantes) had their fincas. now, they're all dead...good riddance.

back in medellin. i must have commented on countless posts as to the need for common sense and colombian 'ships legs' before one becomes an explorer in the vast majority of medellin, outside of poblado, parts of laureles and las palmas. daytime is alright, but for nightowls, 'buyer beware'. a visitor cannot be warned enough to be on the alert, don't go where you don't know. travel in the regions around medellin with reliable friends and dont be a fuckin dummy.

after many years of living there, i've seen it all, most of it many times...right before my eyes. shootings, murders, bombings, sequestres, robberies, muggings, car accidents/fatalities, etc. and they ONLY THING that kept my inquisitive ass out of any number of these fixes, is being alert, common sense, and not playing hero or being stupid. countless times i could have had my ass shot, robbed, mugged or worse. it was only that internal voice to which i pay good attention, that kept me free from harm. thanks to GOD.

yes, medellin has changed like nite and day over the past decade, but that is no reason to drop one's guard or begin risky activities.

stay on the alert, know well those whom you call friends, know where to go, know who to go with, know what to do when you get there, and know what/who/where to avoid.

i had a gun put to my head by my land lord and talked my way out of it. other's might not be so lucky.

don't go to the police reporting something about someone you know. it's a death warrant. either deal with it your self or forget it.

when my neighbor in poblado stole my sony handycam ($1,000.00) my brother in law (which brother in law was later killed by sicarios) told me to whack him. i told him i'm not gonna kill someone over a fuckin camera. he said to me that if i didn't whack him, i'd have no respect in the community. something which was of no importance to me. as it turned out, the culpable neighbor spent the next two years scared to death...never knowing when i was going to order his demise.

my neighbor in llano grande killed his majordomo because 'he insulted him'. when the military commander got there, because he knew the landowner, just ordered a beer, visited with the killer a while and left. there would be no investigation. they just left the body there in the road to be retrieved by the family later. so folks, don't think that it's all roses in colombia, wake up. and stop fuckin comparing it with east LA, or new york or west hell italy. we're talking about colombia. it's dangerous there. it's also wonderful, exciting, romantic and, over and above all, a fantastic place to live.

just make sure you have your shit together, use common sense, and dont be foolhearty, and you will get to know colombia, and know how to live there and enjoy it.

good luck to all.

dw

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 30, 2005, 07:07:

Itagui is a little rough but I've been there several times without mishap. The textile plant where my wife used to work is in Itagui and her sister has an apartment there. Of course my sister-in-law's family now live in my wife's apartment near Laureles since it is a much better area. You're right, if you wander around Medellin it's best to go with a native or local.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Rubiazo says on Dec 30, 2005, 14:13:

It's not taking a taxi from a bar It's taking the first taxi you see when you walk out. ALWAYS walk a block and get one. This is just basic common sense almost anywhere in the world! It is literally one of the oldest tricks in the book. I wouldn't do it in North America and I sure as hell wouldn't do it in South America!

Tinto, I'd tell the five year old, this is how life is on Earth, get fucking used to it NOW, be fucking thankful it wasn't us because tomorrow is promised to nobody.

Remember, you have no idea why those people were shot. For all you know the shooters could have been doing the world a huge favor by removing those people from it!

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Dec 30, 2005, 14:21:

you guys scare me Why would somebody go to Buenaventura?
To get to the beaches of Juanchaco and Ladrilleros.
Not dangerous during daytime.

Barrio Obrero, San Nicolas? During daylight hours, anybody can go there and be reasonably safe. At night? I wouldn't know, never had any business there after nightfall.

I'll be in Cali in about a month. Will report if I survived.

Cheers,
Desi


Embrace your uniqueness. Time is much too short to be living someone
else's life.

-Kobi Yamada

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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tomtom33 says on Dec 30, 2005, 14:31:

Buen suerte, Desi. I left after 3 days, happy that I had all my body parts intact.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Dec 30, 2005, 15:22:

I'm shaking I don't believe you guys. You're making this up.There's a gringo conspiracy against Cali.

Cheers,
Desi

Embrace your uniqueness. Time is much too short to be living someone
else's life.

-Kobi Yamada

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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aztec says on Dec 31, 2005, 02:22:

Cali Desideria Cali has become more dangerous. Or maybe it has become visibly dangerous whereas in the past danger was confined to those involved in the "trade".

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Dec 31, 2005, 04:49:

I'm getting more and more scared all the time There's a lot of conflicting information about safety in Cali. Most gringos report increased crime and violence on the streets of Cali. Most people who live in Cali (Colombians) say that it's about as usual. I'm not really concerned about ordinary street crime in bars and clubs on Avenida Sexta or dance clubs in Juanchito after hours; not the places I hang out ordinarily but rather the malls, better restaurants, residencial neighborhoods and the immediate vicinity like Carretera al Mar, Saladito, Jamundí, Palmira.

As the date of my trip draws nearer I'm getting worried; the way I've never been before a trip to Cali. Maybe I've been hanging out on this site too long. However, I just read an excellent column written by Ma. Elvira Bonilla in today's El Pais, "Civilización o barbarie?" http://elpais-cali.terra.com.co/historico/dic302005/OPN/opi5.html
and it might just be true that Cali is going through some really rough times, la mala hora.

I'm really very interested in hearing balanced opinions about the situation in Cali.

Cheers,
Desi

Embrace your uniqueness. Time is much too short to be living someone
else's life.

-Kobi Yamada

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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tomtom33 says on Dec 31, 2005, 05:01:

My Paisa novia was quite wary during our 3 days in Cali in Jan, 2005. She explained that the unemployment rate was higher than Medellin. She was constantly pointing out people just standing around with nothing to do.

One time we were walking toward a church in centro during the afternoon. We were still a block and a half from the church when she suddenly said, "Let's turn around." We did a 180 and walked back where we came from. She just didn't feel right about the area. I accepted her feeling without question.

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litost says on Dec 31, 2005, 06:25:

Desi,

I agree that Cali has been going through some pretty tough times the last few years, and thus an additional sense of caution should be excercised, but I don't think there's reason to actually reconsider your vacation. The main thing to remember is that, as far as the most serious crimes such as homicides are concerned, they are due mainly to the narco wars that have made a comeback in the city (and Valle department in general). At least as far as I know, there haven't been bombs going off or generalized attacks on normal civilians. You just have to be careful of common thieves, specially regarding ATM machines for example, avoiding shady neighborhoods and keeping a low profile. That said, I think you will see that most caleños still love their city and try to enjoy life as is their usual spirit. Besides, the normal everyday activities you'll most likely be involved in - visiting friends and family, shopping at Chipichape or Unicentro, going to restaurants or cafes - will put you in no kind of particular threat. Ditto for driving outside the city, whereas the situation inside the city for crime has worsened some, Uribe's security policies have made it safer to travel by land. I was in Cali for a week in july, staying at a friend's house, and we went with his family to the Km 18, Jamunudi, Palmira etc. and they expressed no worries. We drove around Cali quite a bit, visiting his friends and family in different areas of the city and it was OK. He showed me some really nice cafes and bars in the Granada neighborhood, I was actually impressed with the quality and variety of places there.

So there Desi, I just wanted to balance things out a bit because the board's been really hard on your dear Cali the last few days... and although I agree the general security situation inside the city has deteriorated relatively to other cities in Colombia, it is still worth visiting and especially for somebody who knows people there already such as yourself.

PS - I highly recommend a Cabalgata in Rosso at sunset, beautiful!

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paisa29 says on Dec 31, 2005, 06:40:

Desi lo siento pero muchos aquí tienen razón sobre Cali, puede ser que no estes muy informada sobre la situación de ordén público allá, pero en este momento Cali es la ciudad mas violenta en toda Colombia, según he escuchado en las noticias parece que en la feria hubo muchos incidentes y lo que me pareció mas triste fue que mataron y maltrataron varios caballos durante la cabalgata.

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El bueno says on Dec 31, 2005, 07:21:

I´m from Sweden ("the worlds most peaceful country") I´m sorry for your bad luck man I really am. But upon these experience you cant judge Colombia like that. I´m living in Sweden one of the most "calm and peaceful" countrys in the world, but still I could tell you some nasty shit that is going on here, for example that a guy split another guys head with an axe a couple of days ago.
That our minster of foreign affairs Anna Lindh was killed by a young boy etc.

Does this make Sweden a dangerous country? No a don´t think so. I meen come on you had some bad luck, rembember you said at first that you had been living in Colombia for over two years without any problems, so now when this has happend suddenly Colombia is one of the most dangerous countrys in the world?? I´m sorry but I am not buying it my friend.

Well take care and have a happy new year!

Best regards

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Monpirri says on Dec 31, 2005, 07:58:

These threads about negative news about Colombia are become to be a facsimile of news broadcasted by the TV moguls in the states.
Colombia is just as dangerous as any other country! I have read very awful news or atrocious crimes committed here and in other nearby countries.
Let’s post the good news only on PBH, the bad news you can see and hear it every day on the media that capitalized on picturing Colombia as a monster.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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dwmte says on Dec 31, 2005, 08:32:

monpirri... you make a good point...

however, we're not talking about other countries, we're talking about colombia. i've lived all over north africa, throughout the middle east, india and europe, and believe me there i witnessed men's conduct that makes what goes on in colombia, a bit of a walk in the park. unfortunately, since we're talking about colombia and trying to help--for the most part--greenhorn travellers and visitors to maximize their experience of the wonders of colombia...safely!, it is imparitive that the narratives shared be realistic and not glossy. i go back--for a gringo--a long time in colombia, and i have witnessed her rise from the ashes of such chaos, the difference now, with then, is almost like i was in a different country. now, dear colombia has rid herself of a host of difficulties that used to plague everyday life, problems i witnessed first hand and head on; ones which scarred the livin shit outta me and hardened my resolve not to give into the fear, but to be resolute and continue. well, here now some 18 years later, i have no regrets for my decisions and have an experience of colombia few can match. i know her from the enauguration of giviria (a guest) to having lunch with a family of sicarios in east bello on the most dangerous urban mountain in all of colombia. i watched men gunned down for nothing, robbings and so much more...yet, here i am, more in love than the day i discovered medellin...which was marked by p. escobars bombing of the hotel inter where i was staying.

so, dear, i can talk all night of the 'wild west' aspects and the wonders that eclipse all the problems and still take me back.

i hope you don't think that realistic narrative--at least on my part--in anyway detracts from the reality of the colombia i love, wherein lives half my family, wherein is buried one of my children and wherein live some of the best friends a man could have.

i would only choose to inform the uninformed of the realities they must address to safely advance their knowledge of COLOMBIA and not just a passing visit to bars, tourist traps, brothels and the like.

these features are everywhere the same...colombia, vietnam, china, u.s. or where ever. on the contrary, THE REAL COLOMBIA is only found in colombia and nowhere else. it is this magnificent lady i would share with others...but to know her, there is a price. to pay this price, one must be prepared, have their ships legs and know what it means to really depend on common sense.

i hope my narratives haven't truly offended you, as offence for colombia is something i have not.

dw

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Dec 31, 2005, 09:39:

I've been following closely the goings-on in Cali over a great number of years and especially after my last visit almost three years ago. I'm fully aware that Cali has become shabbier, badly managed and that there's been a cartel turf war that has affected mostly the northern towns of the departamento with fringe effects on Cali itself, but I was yet not aware that Cali has become a scary place to visit. I'm not changing my travel plans since I have to attend my house there but I might reconsider opening the B&B there and may instead sell the house. I haven't decided anything yet before I visit the city and complete the necessary repairs on the house. I've already informed the Inmobiliaria of my plans.

Thank you litost for a balanced opinion; that pretty much confirms what I thought of the situation at the moment. Paisa and tomtom, thank you for alerting me for possible disillusions at arrival. Monpirri, in general I agree with you, let's focus on the positive but in this case I did want to get a realistic picture of what's happening in my Cali.

El bueno, I live in Sweden too and know that there are nasty things happening here too, but yet I feel safe walking around on the streets of Stockholm at any hour without a thought that I might be mugged, killed or raped by some insane criminal who ought to be locked up. There's no comparison between these two countries; Colombia is clearly the more dangerous one, many times over. Denying these facts (homicide and kidnapping statistics) would indeed be very foolish. (Gott Nytt År)

Cheers,
Desi



Embrace your uniqueness. Time is much too short to be living someone
else's life.

-Kobi Yamada

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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caslug says on Dec 31, 2005, 16:03:

Desi..since your not planning to go partying everynight.. security situation for you will be different than a tourist who's looking to party. I dont think you have to worry about ADDITIONAL security precuations, just do what you done in the past. However, if your sons&daughter want to party and explore, they should be more aware and careful. I actually found the city buses to be very safe especially during the day. i'm alway a little extra careful getting a taxi on the street even during the day. But buses, no problem!

When people here are saying cali is not worth the visit, they're usually refering to tourist who have NO connection and can pick ANY other city in COL to visit. a tourist who has NO friends or family in cali, needn't bother to visit Cali, I would suggest they go to BOG or MED or CTG. They're nothing in Cali that those cities dont have, you can party everywhere, you can met people everywhere, you can dance salsa everywhere, etc., Cali is NOT a city with lots of things for tourist to do, living there maybe great and fun, but if you have only 2 or 3 weeks of vacation a year, why go? There's other cities that are better to spend the 2 or 3 weeks a year you have for vacation.

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 31, 2005, 16:26:

Don't tell that to the guys on Planet Love, Caslug. They're absolutely stuck on Cali. You can hardly persuade them that there are women in any other city in Colombia.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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caslug says on Dec 31, 2005, 16:32:

that's because.. most of the guys on the board use or have used agencies, and they're more agencies in Cali than other cities. If it wasnt for the agencies most of those guy would NOT have come to cali, or maybe COL.

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dwmte says on Jan 1, 2006, 03:03:

desi... i cannot imagine you experiencing any problem re-visiting your old city, cali. you are long sense colombia-wise and know full well the need for common sense in ones movements and conduct in colombia in general and cali specifically.

alerts/alarms/warnings which find post in PBH, for the most part, apply to those coming to colombia for the first time. 'old salts' like ourselves and others need only take note of current events which sometimes change the balance of the scales on the side of caution.

i'm certain that your visit will be most wonderful and rewarding.... not just for you and your family (if the children are going with you), but for those you know and love in colombia as well.

go, relax and enjoy the snow-free environment you know and love so well and bring back exciting, positive, memories to share with us.

via con DIOS,

douglas

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dwmte says on Jan 1, 2006, 03:04:

desi... i cannot imagine you experiencing any problem re-visiting your old city, cali. you are long sense colombia-wise and know full well the need for common sense in ones movements and conduct in colombia in general and cali specifically.

alerts/alarms/warnings which find post in PBH, for the most part, apply to those coming to colombia for the first time. 'old salts' like ourselves and others need only take note of current events which sometimes change the balance of the scales on the side of caution.

i'm certain that your visit will be most wonderful and rewarding.... not just for you and your family (if the children are going with you), but for those you know and love in colombia as well.

go, relax and enjoy the snow-free environment you know and love so well and bring back exciting, positive, memories to share with us.

via con DIOS,

douglas

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Jan 1, 2006, 04:27:

Now there is Oh dear,
"At least as far as I know, there haven't been bombs going off" (litost).

"Atentado
Milicias, tras bomba en Tequendama"
http://elpais-cali.terra.com.co/paisonline/notas/Diciembre312005/A1131N1.html

That's my old neighborhood! I used to live just a couple of blocks away from the site. My kids used to play in Parque Tequendama. My house is just about five blocks away from the site of the bomb going off.

NO CHEERS
Desi
(off to Finland in a couple of hours)






Embrace your uniqueness. Time is much too short to be living someone
else's life.

-Kobi Yamada

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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El bueno says on Jan 1, 2006, 19:10:

To Desideria Gott nytt år! :=)

I´m not saying that Colombia is less violent that Sweden, not at all, I´m just courious about this guy living for almost two years in Colombia and nothing has happend, and now he is suddenly changing his view of the country in a split second saying that it is the world most dangerous country just because of that he had some bad luck. I meen that does not make sense.

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juanalejo says on Jan 4, 2006, 07:12:

Cali Arrived two days ago from Cali after a fantastic too few days out there. Party, party, party, nights clubs in Cali could not be more full. Lots of them in a row north of Chipichape near Arroyohondo. The best ones imho are Jungla, Praga and Mibushi(or something like that). Queued for over 1 hour every day to get into each one of them. The new mall Palmetto Plaza is very nice, and the Christmas lighting is out of this world, especially around the Rio Cali. Lots of paseo de finca to Candelaria, Palmira, Dapa and Calima. Cabalgata was way to crowded and unorganized, heard of several incidents with horses although not in the cabalgata itself but near the stables. Did not get to ride, although several of my gringo friends did, and had a blast. Far less drunk people that a few years ago, but again way to many people. I heard over 10.000 horses came out to the cabalgata. In general seemed the same Cali, busy as usual, although the construction of the MIO (transmilenio) does make traffic worse around la 5a. They do have a problem with trash, they need to resolve. Hopefully the new people the mayor named as aides will help the city out. So for my European friends a fantastic trip, for my American friends fantanstic for those who flew Avianca, hell for those who flew Delta, but that is another story.

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