INTERPOL in Colombia 3 + 3 = 8

ixent says on Jun 20, 2008, 12:23:

I have verified some of the things in the article above to be true, by scanning the report, but haven't had time to read it all. It is located at:

http://www.interpol.int/Public/ICPO/PressReleases/PR2008/pdfPR200817/i...

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ixent says on Jun 20, 2008, 12:30:

I would also question the efficacy of checking a timestamp on a computer file. If you type "change file timestamp" into google there is a plethora of software which will assist you with this. For example:

http://www.novell.com/coolsolutions/tools/18707.html

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romy says on Jun 20, 2008, 12:32:

great work ixent. this is unbelivable what you have discovered... I have a basic rule that if Uribe or his lackies say it I hardly believe it. But I did not know about the specifics of this report like you have provided. 'The war machinery' is truly something that has taken over our lives...

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truthspeaker says on Jun 20, 2008, 12:44:

Could it be that a PC could have had more than an hard drive or that they were externally attached to the computers?
Or do you think that Interpol detectives are a bunch of dumb guys?

Remember, I can only tell the truth. No more Sex Tourism in Colombia.

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billyb says on Jun 20, 2008, 12:46:

Math lesson fellers, there were 2 external drives.

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ixent says on Jun 20, 2008, 13:02:

The most worrying point, to me, is the fact that the interpol investigation did not involve actually verifying the origin of the hardware they examined. Throughout the report they just basically take for-granted that it is the case that the hardware was seized from the farc.

According to page 7 of the REPORT:
"The scope of INTERPOL’s computer forensic examination was limited to (a) determining
the actual data contained in the eight seized FARC computer exhibits, (b) verifying whether
the user files had been modified in any way on or after 1 March 2008, and (c) determining
whether Colombian law enforcement authorities had handled and examined the eight seized
FARC computer exhibits in conformity with internationally recognized principles for
handling electronic evidence by law enforcement."

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billyb says on Jun 20, 2008, 13:04:

"Colombian commandos recovered the three Toshiba Satellite laptop computers, two external hard drives and three USB memory sticks in a March 1 cross-border raid into Ecuador that killed FARC foreign minister Raul Reyes and 24 others."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/topstories/2008-05-15-3845428655_x.htm

Romy, what he discovered was unbelievable because it wasn't true, yet once again. Yesterday we had a discussion about the diff between news and propaganda, well Ixtent's farce is an example of the latter.

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gato-bandido says on Jun 20, 2008, 13:04:

> Or do you think that Interpol detectives are a bunch of dumb guys?

No, they think we are.

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romy says on Jun 20, 2008, 13:07:

are you quoting USAtoday when you need to be quoting the interpol report???

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ixent says on Jun 20, 2008, 13:10:

Errrm... the usatoday article is based on an interpretation of the Interpol report. So please, if you are going to counter-argue, use the original source, ie. the interpol report. I know it's over 100 pages long, but it's the most reliable source.

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billyb says on Jun 20, 2008, 13:22:

The fact remains that there were 2 external drives, sorry boys, you'll have to postpone your frothing for another occassion.

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romy says on Jun 20, 2008, 13:39:

how about you read the interpol report and actually make an argument... the key issue isn't the 3 3.

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billyb says on Jun 20, 2008, 13:41:

"the key issue isn't the 3 3."

So why the title of this thread? So let me get this straight, the title of the thread is not the issue we are supposed to be discussing on this thread? Too funny. BTW, have you read the whole report? Right, i didn't think so.

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ixent says on Jun 20, 2008, 13:51:

the title "INTERPOL in Colombia 3 3 = 8" simply alludes to the fact that the interpol report does not add up, which is the subject of this thread.

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romy says on Jun 20, 2008, 13:56:

discussing with billyb is like talking to a rock... why do I bother?

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billyb says on Jun 20, 2008, 14:16:

Why do you, "clever" boy?

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romy says on Jun 20, 2008, 14:25:

I think it's because you seem to have a brain... however you let your feelings distort your rationality, which is a truly intriguing mix.
at least your cheerleader complex seems to be somehwhat resolved, that was also entertaining

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billyb says on Jun 20, 2008, 14:29:

"at least your cheerleader complex seems to be somehwhat resolved, that was also entertaining"

Do't worry, that can change when I see some posts worth cheering.

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ixent says on Jun 20, 2008, 15:08:

before this post descends into personal attacks, I'd like to urge people to address the intial issues which were raised, making reference to the interpol report.

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jorgegdiaz says on Jun 20, 2008, 15:32:

Ixent, I know you are a computer expert, and I know it`s easy to find timestamps in a Windows based machine. Easy to manipulate... I wouldn`t know how.
The article raises a legitimate question (3 3 ≠ 8)

Were they overlooked, the 2 external drives got to Bogota after, were they "planted". I think it`s legitimate to ask.

BTW, which USA Today article are you refering to?

But refusing an INTERPOL report (for Pete`s sake, it is friggin` INTERPOL, it`s not like the report was made by Venezuela PTJ) based solely on that detail? Look at the sources:

Indymedia...no comment there
Eva Golinger (mas Chavista que Chavez)

I don`t know the other ones, but I assume they are alike.

"To err is human - and to blame it on a computer is even more so."Robert Orben

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ixent says on Jun 20, 2008, 15:41:

jorgegdiaz, I am not refusing an interpol report.

The main points I've being trying to make are that
1. the Interpol report is the most reliable source.
2. if you look at the report, you'll see that they did not take steps to forensically verify that the computer was indeed from a FARC camp. Basically, they just seem to take the word from the colombian authorities.

Please read the report if you don't believe me, I know it will take some time, but I think it is quite important to ascertain what the facts are.

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robi666 says on Jun 20, 2008, 15:45:

If someone could find some articles from newspaper about the death of RR and computers finding, I think it would be easy to realize if the existence of the external disks was known at the time (I mean, before the Interpol was requested to investigate).
If the existence was known, then we can think about a simple omissis in the original letter.
I think that I remember about the external disks being mentioned by the media just after RR death, but I could be wrong.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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robi666 says on Jun 20, 2008, 15:48:

More, what could be the reason to add two more disks to the computers?
I mean, two internal disks would be enough for tons of invented documents... so why two more disks?

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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ixent says on Jun 20, 2008, 15:49:

Jorgegdiaz, to answer your other question, I did not refer to a usa today report, I was reponding to billyb about an usa today report which he had cited (see post above).

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jorgegdiaz says on Jun 20, 2008, 15:50:

I read most of the report when it came out. Yes, they saved their butts by stating how the specimens were obtained.
Their conclusion was that user files, not O.S. files, were not changed and some were accesed.
if I were DAS / Army / whatever I would have had to look at the contents to realize what I had in my hands had to be verified by and external, impartial, reliable, and thrustworty authority, and 4 days latter they realized that. There was no Interpol on-site to guard the information b/c nobody would ahve guessed what was about to be found.

"To err is human - and to blame it on a computer is even more so."Robert Orben

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tasco66 says on Jun 21, 2008, 04:44:

You mean to say Chavez turned his coat based on some spotty Interpol report?

Jajaja you lefties are very entertaining today

Bravo, Presidente Uribe for the perfect operation!

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tasco66 says on Jun 21, 2008, 04:54:

From Wikipedia:

"The Independent Media Center (aka Indymedia or IMC) is a global network of participatory journalists that reports with a left-wing perspective on political and social issues. "

Another left wing article that got all the usual PBH lefties agitated, jajaja

Bravo, Presidente Uribe for the perfect operation!

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dwmte7 says on Jun 21, 2008, 06:19:

they just need a lesson from our homies...."...one and one and one is three..."

dwmte

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ixent says on Jun 21, 2008, 06:56:

Tasco66, I'm perfectly happy to acknowledge that all news entities report from their political perspective, and that this is the nature of all media. This is the case whether it's left wing/right wing/mainstream/whatever. Therefore I maintain my point of view that scepticism of **all** media is a healthy thing to have, whatever your political affiliation is.

The reason I cited an Indymedia report at the beginning of this thread is not because I take it as gospel. I went back to the source (the original Interpol report) and corroborated many things it said to be true. For example, the interpol investigation is hinged on the assumption that the laptop indeed came from the Raul Reyes Farc camp. Interpol does not carry out any forensic investigation which has been carried out by interpol to ascertain this.

Do you not agree that the most reliable source here is the Interpol report, and certainly not Indymedia or usatoday.com (or any other media report for that matter)?

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ixent says on Jun 21, 2008, 06:57:

Tasco66, the Interpol report is at http://www.interpol.int/Public/ICPO/PressReleases/PR2008/pdfPR200817/i.... Read the paragraph in page 7 about the scope of the report. It's only one paragraph.

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juancegomez says on Jun 26, 2008, 09:50:

I read this article elsewhere, and I am still profoundly unimpressed. And yes, that is after reading the INTERPOL report for myself, in a less selective way than the above author if I am allowed to say so.

It is certainly true, and not surprising at all for those who were paying attention, that INTERPOL wasn't tasked with confirming the identity of the owners...nor could they really, just from a technical analysis alone.

A larger investigation would have to take place, and other materials would have to be studied, including the video and photos showing the PCs and their extraction from the camp. What video, some may ask? A video which is available on Youtube, and probably elsewhere, albeit in edited form, yet still shows at least one of the survivors from the camp. The Mexican girl, I believe. The unedited version of this video would have to be analyzed.

In the meanwhile, the technical branch of INTERPOL, so to speak, can only go so far. But INTERPOL, as a law enforcement agency which has dealt with FARC and even "Raúl Reyes" in the past, is capable of reaching its own conclusions and assuming its own positions, using the results of the report and whatever else they may know.

The article assumes that all the correspondence between INTERPOL and Colombia is included as an annex to this report. I wouldn't be so sure, since there must have been at least direct talks at some point, and they may not be properly reflected in this report.

Taking that into consideration and since, unlike what Chávez and Correa swore, there was no proof of any actual manipulation of the computer contents, it's possible for INTERPOL to assume the position that the computers belong to FARC. Just as there are others like Chavez who assume (or pretend to assume) that everything must be a sham and whatnot. What's valid for one side can't be invalid for the other.

Of course, that alone means little until the issues have to go before a judicial tribunal. Then, certainly, it will be necessary to conclusively prove one thing or another, regarding the actual origins of this computer. I am certainly aware of that.

It may be that at least the external harddrives were planted, if one wishes to assume so, but this could also be proven or dismissed in several ways, not just by asking the question and leaving it at that.

But the alternative this article and some commentators seem to suggest is to immediately believe that the Colombian government had prepared all these computers well in advance of the Raúl Reyes raid, expecting to incriminate Correa and Chávez, and somehow made any and all necessary modifications or manipulations, covering hundreds of GBs, between March 1 and 3. Does anyone realize the complexity of such an operation, unless it was all part of some grand master plan that required taking too many variables into account? And if such a plan was in motion, wouldn't it have been easier to do everything possible in order to respect the chain of custody from the very beginning, and still get the same result? Think about it for a minute.

This all relies on a grand conspiracy theory, and most of those turn out to be quite...questionable, in the end.

Somehow, I really don't think that is too likely. Unless someone can come up with a better theory, one that actually makes that scenario work.

That doesn't mean I agree with the way the Colombian government has interpreted or presented this data, and there may be specific leaked documents which may be false. That, however, can also be addressed by comparing their digital signatures, or hash numbers, before a court.

And finally, I don't think the only government in Latin America which is capable of lying is Uribe's, thank you very much, or that it has to do so every single time.

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juancegomez says on Jun 26, 2008, 10:25:

A couple of interesting quotes from the article:

"And referring to Ecuador, President Rafael Correa has said that if we
are to believe what the FARC-EP has supposedly said about Ecuador than
we should also believe what they have to say about President Uribe's
links to drug trafficking and to the para-militaries. Now that
INTERPOL has made back-up copies of everything on these eight pieces
of hardware, it would be nice if Colombia would share them with
Venezuela and Ecuador so that these countries, which seem to be
mentioned so frequently in the computers, could see if any mention is
made about Colombia in them."

This is quite a flawed logic though. FARC would obviously refer to
Uribe as a paramilitary and worse, just as I'm sure there are
documents in paramilitary computers that refer to Chavez and others as
guerrillas and worse. How they describe their foes is one thing, what
they say about their own operations is something else entirely. That
entire comparison is useful for exactly one thing...political rhetoric
and personal attacks.

The only thing that could remotely be useful for that would be if FARC
was somehow conducting an investigation of those links and whatnot,
but it's obvious that FARC isn't in a position to do that.

Still, I understand that there must be careful investigations into the
claims made thus far about Chávez and Correa, because some statements
have proven to be faulty already.

Btw, it's also a distortion for Chavez and Correa to pretend that the
computers couldn't have survived or needed to be magical, when it's
not like the camp was bombarded to hell and all the bodies were burned
to a crisp. In fact, according to the Ecuadorian press, a fair amount
of the camp was pretty much intact, including electronic equipment,
kitchens and power plants, as well as other things seen in photos.

But apparently, oh no, the computers couldn't possibly exist or even
survive...

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romy says on Jun 26, 2008, 10:29:

"How they describe their foes is one thing, what
they say about their own operations is something else entirely."
your statement assumes that Chavez and Correa re part of their operations...albeit their statement is rhetoric, but their logic is of deconstructive nature, not to establish anything.

where have you seen pictures of the bombed campsite?

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juancegomez says on Jun 26, 2008, 10:46:

Again, I have to assume that FARC would describe their own operations in a different manner than when they state "Uribe is a paramilitary".

Yet you have Correa saying, in public, that we must treat both kinds of statements as inherently equal, and this article picks up the same point. Doesn't that sound wrong to you?

FARC's statements about their own operations would tend to include any links or relationships with Correa or Chavez, naturally...regardless of how these might be further interpreted, or any flaws and falsehoods related to particular documents, which I've repeatedly admitted since almost the beginning. But it's not the same thing.

I've been reading El Comercio and a couple of other newspapers, on and off, for much of the past few months but especially during the crisis. There are a few photos, though most of them tend to focus on the damaged areas or dead individuals, but more importantly, there's descriptions of the actual camp and its extension. Only a part of it was actually bombed, not the entire thing, which was a fairly big complex, which wasn't exactly blown to bits all across the board.

Here's just one article:
------------------------------------------------------------------
El tour FARC acabó en tragedia

La base de la guerrilla, que tenía una inusual infraestructura, fue visitada por varios extranjeros. Tres sobrevivientes relatan cómo fue el ataque colombiano.

Si las FF.AA. colombianas no interceptaban una comunicación radial de los militares ecuatorianos esta historia no iba a ser contada.

A las 11:30 del sábado 1 de marzo dos patrullas salieron de la IV División del Ejército con la orden de detener a la unidad colombiana que penetró sin permiso a Sucumbíos. Para esa hora, el mundo ya sabía que ‘Raúl Reyes’, el segundo hombre de las Fuerzas Armadas Revolucionarias de Colombia (FARC) había muerto en un bombardeo a un campamento levantado en Angostura, un caserío inhóspito en el cordón fronterizo.

A esa hora, en Angostura, una patrulla de 18 policías Antinarcóticos de Colombia cuidaba las espaldas de los soldados que incursionaron en la base y que habían conseguido un botín de guerra sin precedentes para esa nación.

Ellos llevaban un uniforme totalmente verde con distintivo rojo en uno de sus brazos, recuerda Lucía Morett, una de las tres sobrevientes del bombardeo. Ella estaba herida en su pierna y glúteos y los policías le dijeron que la llevarían a Bogotá. Su destino sería la cárcel para que afronte un interrogatorio y un seguro juicio.

La amenaza no se cumplió. Súbitamente los policías dejaron el campamento. Le dijeron a Morett, de 26 años, que los militares ecuatorianos “estaba bravos�? y que llegaría de un momento a otro. Lo mismo escuchó Martha Pérez, una colombiana, que estaba cerca, tendida en el piso con fracturas en un brazo y en las piernas. Antes de partir a su país, les dejaron una botella con agua y dulces.

Doris Bohórquez, la otra colombiana herida y que estaba escondida metros atrás, también miró que los policías regresaban a su país.

Según su relato, las tres mujeres nunca se habían visto, pero esa noche sobrevivieron a un feroz bombardeo.

Los ideales y la simpatía que tenía Morett por los movimientos de izquierda afloró en 1998. “Sí mi hija es de izquierda, pero no guerrillera�?, dice su padre Juan, que trata de explicar cómo su hija estaba en el mismo cuartel que el número 2 de la guerrilla más antigua de Colombia. Ese año, ella fue multada por protestar contra su presidente Ernesto Cedillo, y dos años después en la
Universidad Autónoma de México (UNAM) proclamaba un discurso de bienvenida al subcomandante Marcos, el líder de la rebelión de Chiapas en México.

En cambio, Martha y Doris nacieron en el Putumayo colombiano. Martha tiene 24 años y hace uno las FARC la reclutó -ella sostiene que a la fuerza- y le prometió una vida de miliciana. Doris (21) estuvo con la guerrilla desde enero, cuando llegaron a su comunidad en Pinuña Negra y le dijeron que debía ir con ellos.

Por su corto paso con la insurgencia, dicen ambas, que aprendieron básicamente a cuidar animales. Llegaron a Angostura los últimos días de febrero.

En ese lugar, las FARC habían montado clandestinamente por los menos tres meses atrás, una base que rompía las reglas conocidas de la insurgencia: moverse para no ser encontrada. El asentamiento, que no se puede identificar por aire, tiene unas dos hectáreas de extensión y estaba cubierto por bosque nativo, con árboles Guambo ó Sangre de Gallina. Se podía ingresar por tierra. Además, a 1,5 km había una finca, que se sospecha era su centro de abastecimiento.

La base estaba divida en áreas de dormitorios, cocina, para el aseo, para el cuidado de animales y otras para adiestramiento y capacitación. Además, tenía generadores de energía eléctrica, televisiones plasma, antenas satelitales, computadoras portátiles...

Martha y Doris eran de los rangos inferiores de las FARC, pues dicen que no vieron nada y no conocían a nadie. Pero por los uniformes hallados en el lugar, durante esos días, allí estaban miembros de las columnas 48, 55, 56, 59... El contingente más grande de las FARC, que opera en la zona sur del vecino del norte.

Lucía Morett llegó a Quito a fines de enero en compañía de Juan González (28 años), Verónica Velásquez (30), Fernando Franco (29), Soren Avilés (33). Cuatro eran estudiantes de la UNAM y Avilés del Instituto Politécnico.

Todos eran solteros. Vinieron para participar en el II Congreso Continental de la Coordinadora Bolivariana, desdel 24 al 27 de febrero. Antes del Congreso, los jóvenes participaron en un seminario sobre el pensamiento de Simón Bolívar. Según la Coordinadora Continental Bolivariana, el seminario era un instrumento de desarrollo de la Escuela de Formación Bolivariana de Cuadros.

Tuvo una parte formativa destinada a líderes populares y revolucionarios destacados de los diferentes capítulos y organizaciones filiales de la Coordinadora.

Morett recuerda que ella y sus compatriotas conocieron Quito, visitaron universidades y hablaron con las personas que organizaban el Congreso. A ese encuentro también acudieron delegados de ‘Reyes’ que llevaron su saludo grabado en video (ver pág. 23)

“Posteriormente, tuve la oportunidad de conocer un campamento de las FARC, lo que me ayudaría a continuar mi investigación sobre la cultura de América Latina�?. Ella se destacó en la carrera de Literatura Dramática y Teatro de la UNAM. Egresó y luego trabajó recopilando información para las noticias el Centro de Medios Independientes. Y actualmente, realiza la tesis. ‘El teatro de creación colectiva en América Latina: dos casos, Cuba y Colombia’.

Morett guarda en secreto cómo ella y sus cuatro compañeros consiguieron llegar al campamento de ‘Reyes’. “No hice ningún contacto, talvez fue una de las personas fallecidas�?. Aunque se sospecha que la visita ya estaba programada desde mucho antes.

Dos chilenos Valeska López y Manuel Olate también estuvieron en el campamento de ‘Reyes’, sus fotos aparecieron en la computadora del guerrillero. En ellas se ve a un ‘Reyes’ risueño, seguro y tranquilo. Los chilenos tampoco sitieron temor, sabían que estaban en Ecuador y no en Colombia.

La noche del 28 de febrero, los cinco mexicanos salieron en un bus hasta Nueva Loja, capital de Sucumbíos. Al día siguiente, con
su contacto, que no lo identifica, fueron en una camioneta a la frontera, luego tomaron una lancha (en el sector de Palmar) y posteriormente caminaron hasta la base. El trayecto a pie no superaba los 40 minutos y la guerrilla había hecho trochas como guías.

Cuando llegaron al campamento insurgente eran las 18:00 del 29 de febrero. Entonces, esperaron hasta que su contacto hablara con una mujer y les explicó que hacían una investigación. Luego la mujer les llevó hasta los dormitorios, con la promesa de que al otro día podían aclarar sus dudas.

Pero la evidencia encontrada en la base dice lo contrario. En una hoja se detallan las actividades de la noche del 29, las cuales incluían la bienvenida a la delegación mexicana, una hora social organizada por los visitantes, teatro música, poseía. El festejo terminaba en un ‘streptease’.

Lejos de Angostura, la Policía y los militares de Colombia estaban afinando los últimos detalles para un operativo sin precedentes, que era parte de la estrategia del presidente �?lvaro Uribe para terminar con el Secretariado de las FARC. A principios del 2007, nació la unidad especial Dipol, con la misión de ubicar a cada uno de sus siete miembros.

Para seguir a ‘Reyes’, que se movía en la frontera colombiana-ecuatoriana, agentes encubiertos se radicaron en Puerto Asís, Colombia. En esa zona un informante les proporcionó pistas clave de la seguridad y los movimientos del líder guerrillero.

Les entregó el número de teléfono satelital de ‘Reyes’, que fue rastreado y que permitió ubicarlo en el sitio donde estaba.

La noche del 29, el operativo militar colombiano empezó en la base de Tres Esquinas, en el Putumayo. Los informes militares ecuatorianos señalan que los aviones Súpertucano cruzaron en pocos minutos el territorio ecuatoriano y con precisión milimétrica descargaron sus bombas en la zona de dormitorios de la base.

A las 00:00, Lucía Morett se despertó con el estruendo de las bombas. Percibía un olor a quemado y veía cómo los árboles caían con fuerza. Quedó herida y tuvo que arrastrase para protegerse con una mochila en el piso. En ese lugar sobrevivió a un segundo bombardeo a las 03:00. Luego llegaron las tropas.

“No se mueva somos el Ejército colombiano, le estamos apuntando tres personas. Me hicieron levantar las manos y me esposaron. Entonces, me dieron los primeros auxilios�?. Cuando la atendían escuchó los últimos tiros. Las evidencias muestran que se usaron tres tipos de armas, entre ellas pistolas o revólveres.

Martha Pérez intentó correr. Se puso sus botas y salió de la cama, pero sus heridas le impidieron seguir. Antes de desmayarse solo oyó gritos de hombres y mujeres.

En cambio, Doris Bohórquez solo esperaba la muerte. Ella estaba atada a un árbol. Se liberó como pudo, corrió y se refugió en un hueco, pero las esquirlas la alcanzaron. Oculta escuchaba el vuelo de aviones y de helicópteros que disparaban sin cesar. Observó, sin ser ubicada, el arribo de soldados colombianos.

“Gritaban y alumbraban. Decían entréguense que les respetamos la vida y luego escuchaba disparos�?. La acción militar siguió hasta el amanecer.

Con el alba, las mujeres contemplaron el festejo de los soldados y policías colombianos, en medio de la devastación. Tenían como trofeo el cadáver de ‘Reyes’ y de otro de bigote (su lugarteniente Julián Corado, que era conocido como el cantor de las FARC, por sus vallenatos). Decían que habían hallado la computadora del guerrillero. Exclamaban “nos van a condecorar�?.

Llegaron más helicópteros para llevarse el cadáver de ‘Reyes’. En la base solo se quedaron los policías. Ellos alertaron al Ejército ecuatoriano que estuvieron en combates con la guerrilla, que necesitaban su ayuda.

Ese aviso ocurrió a las 06:30, el Ejército ecuatoriano envió helicópteros con personal de Inteligencia para ubicarlos, pero las coordenadas entregadas estaban erradas.

Los policías no se preocuparon por el tiempo. A Morett y a Pérez las ubicaron en la zona norte, mientras apilaban 22 cadáveres. Se afanaron en el cuidado de Morett, la ayudaron a cambiarse de ropa y la inyectaron medicamentos para el dolor.

Pero también la vejaron con comentarios sobre sus nalgas, busto y con pedidos para que sea su novia. Cerca de las 15:00, los policías dejaron Angostura. �?Les pregunté si me llevarían a Colombia y me dijeron que no, que iría a Ecuador�?, recuerda Morett.

Ella y Pérez esperaron por ayuda. Mientras que Bohórquez prefirió quedarse en su escondite. Unos minutos después observaron a helicópteros, Morett se quitó una camiseta blanca que llevaba en la cabeza para dar señales. Eran naves ecuatorianas, pero no pudieron desembarcar a las patrullas y decidieron bajar unos 2 kilómetros antes de la base.

Los soldados llegaron al anochecer (18:00). Ayudaron a Morett y a Pérez y sacaron a Bohórquez del refugio.Recogieron las pruebas del ataque. Un soldado le mostró a la mexicana la credencial de González que había muerto. Sus otros tres compatriotas tampoco sobrevivieron.

Los ecuatorianos les dijeron que esa noche no saldrían del campamento. Morett se durmió agarrada de la mano de un soldado. Mientras que Pérez y Bohórquez descansaron tranquilas.

En el campamento

En la base guerrillera no solo se encontró armas y electrodomésticos, sino también hojas para dibujo, partes para elaborar muñecas y cartas de los miembros de la guerrilla colombiana.

En el terreno aledaño también tenía un puesto de vigilancia, que se encontraba en una elevación para poder observar cualquier movimiento no programado. Esta es una de las tácticas que usa las FARC como protección.

En los últimos días de febrero no llovió en la zona. El calor fue agoviante según los vecinos. Eso causó que los cadáveres se descompongan rápidamente.

http://www2.elcomercio.com/noticiaEC.asp?id_noticia=177679&id_seccion=...


http://www2.elcomercio.com/nv_images/fotos/2008/03/ec16_info1.gif

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romy says on Jun 26, 2008, 11:04:

of course it's wrong because it's pretentious. but it's a 'catch 22' because assumptions must be made otherwise. We really have to wait and see, like you have pointed out elsewhere.

I think the most telling image is that of Reyes' body... has anyone seen that? a computer with such sensible data would most likely be kept at arms reach. I have also heard that where the bomb struck it created a crater... unfortunately the information we (at least me) receive from our many 'great' sources is not very pure.

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juancegomez says on Jun 26, 2008, 11:32:

Actually, if you look at the condition of the body, it seems somewhat likely that Raúl Reyes stepped on a land mine while he was fleeing.

Why? Because he's clearly shown to have lost his entire foot. That's the most damaged part of this body, the rest of it is mostly intact.

While there are shrapnel wounds, on his face and elsewhere, a bomb wouldn't have just destroyed his foot, it would have ripped him apart.

If you can explain how and why a falling bomb would happen to explode in such a way as to cause the most damage to his foot, as opposed to a land mine, I would like to hear it. It's true we don't have all the information, but right now that looks more reasonable than a bomb, which would have caused far more devastation, and probably did...in other sections of the camp. Still, it wasn't some sort of carpet bombing campaign.

It's hard to tell where those computers could have been found. They might have been in his personal sleeping quarters or in some sort of nearby "office" space, like the one we've seen in photos where he's talking to Piedad Córdoba or other individuals, sitting across a table. Would he grab them when he's trying to flee from an incoming air attack? Probably not but, again, we don't know.

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romy says on Jun 26, 2008, 11:37:

I haven't seen the condition of his body... that's why I asked.

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juancegomez says on Jun 26, 2008, 11:53:

Here's a link I found through Google image search, but I warn you...it's pretty graphic and, I would add, horrible.

http://www.colombialink.com/01_INDEX/index_personajes/guerrilla/devia_...

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romy says on Jun 26, 2008, 12:27:

I see the need for the services of someone like http://explosion-experts.com/
... too late now, probably

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