Information on Manizales? (and special note to Vildkatta)

Colombia-Jane says on Nov 11, 2004, 18:50:

Manizales Hi there! I'd definitely reccomend driving from Bogota to Manizales. It's about 6 hours away and other than all the damn curves in the roads, it's a great drive! I know Canadians require driving permits so I would assume it's the same for everyone else.

Manizales is great! If you need a place to stay I suggest Termales del Otono. Beautiful cabins with amazing service and thermal jacuzzis (say hello to my Tias Tonia and Dorita for me! They run a beautiful spot.)
I wish I could remember the names of the places I went when I was there but they're so popular that I'm sure you'll find out no problem. There are several nature parks with great guided tours and el nevado is a huge attraction. You'll also be sure to see the famous statues and the cathedral. Go to Don Juaco for the best chicharron in the world! :)

Manizales was pretty chilly in August so be prepared for cold and maybe even hot. It's also near la zona cafetera if you're up for a great roadtrip. :)

Have fun!





www.community.webshots/user/cjontheloose

www.community.webshots/user/cjontheloose

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litost says on Nov 11, 2004, 19:11:

Hi heat, check out the following threads where I've spoken about Manizales, a city I know pretty well and like a lot:

http://www.poorbuthappy.com/colombia/node/3421

http://www.poorbuthappy.com/colombia/node/4881

Hmmm... I was sure there were other older posts with discussions specific on Manizales, but it looks like they got lost during the transition to the new format. That sucks! I'll gladly rewrite my impressions of this city for you, but it'll have to be tommorrow cuz it's kinda late right now and I work early.

I'll be there myself in a few weeks, visiting friends, enjoying the december atmosphere and then partying my a$$ off in the Feria in january... so you'll be getting reports and some visual material I promise.

And Congratulations on your decision!

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Peter (Moderator) (Trustee board) (Dev team) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 12, 2004, 00:55:

villdkatta says on Nov 12, 2004, 14:01:

Hi Heat... That is so exciting! I'm thrilled for you! I will e.mail you right now. Kim

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heat says on Nov 13, 2004, 18:05:

litost - thanks for the links. can you tell me what the weather is like there? if they have all 4 seasons, can you tell me when they are (for ex: when is summer?). The young girl lives or goes to school at a place called Hogar de la Alegria. It is located on Calle 64 - Barrio Fatima - just curious but by chance are you familiar with this area?

colombia-jane - thank you for your advice as well. the place w/the hot springs sounds cool. my husband was excited to learn about the different nature parks and guided tours so i will definitely look into that. sounded similar to arenal and tabacon in costa rica.

vildkatta - thanks for the email. i have responded with lots of questions but please take your time responding.

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litost says on Nov 15, 2004, 18:33:

heat: ok, so Manizales....

It's a city of approximately 500,000 people, capital of the Caldas department located 4 hours south of Medellin, 5 hours north of Cali and some 8 hours west of Bogota. Other nearby cities are Pereira (1 hour) and Armenia (2 hours), which combine to make up the three cities of what is know as the "Eje Cafetero" or Coffee Region, the departments of Caldas, Risaralda and Quindio (up until some 50 years ago they were all just one department called Caldas and Manizales was the capital of it all, the coffee boom and rapid growth of these other cities provoked the controversial division). It is in many ways a typical Andes city, built on an unlikely mountaintop thus giving it a very hilly structure, somewhere I read someone comparing it to San Francisco in that, but also in a certain "feel". Due to its altitude of about 2100 meters above sea level, it is cooler than Medellin and warmer than Bogota. No seasons in the traditional sense, temperatures vary little throughout the year and there are just some months when it tends to rain more than others... I believe it's something like september-november and march-may. The driest and therefore warmest months tend to be january-febrary and july-august. This is by no means the rule, sometimes there'll be the "fenomeno del niño" which will screw up all the weather... so general rule would just be mild to warm days and cool nights (light sweater or jacket). The natural setting is one of the most impressive in Colombia, the Nevado del Ruiz and other snow-capped mountains from the Parque de los Nevados offer a beautiful backdrop to the city, though clear skies to enjoy the view can be a rarity. To the other side of the city there's a quick drop into a large valley with rolling hills where temperature is year-round tropical heat. And of course, practically everywhere you look there are the infinite shades of green of the Andes in that area.

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heat says on Nov 16, 2004, 23:46:

thanks litost- i owe you a cup of coffee :) sounds really lovely there! i can't wait to go. just got to figure out when......

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Lionheart says on Nov 17, 2004, 14:34:

confused about driving Almost everywhere here in this Forum and definitely everybody I have talked to directly in Colombia has told me not to attempt to drive in a car through rural areas in Colombia. It is simply too risky. Go by bus at least, but flying is even better, that is the general recommendation.

What is special about this tour that makes it safe for a gringo to drive in a car alone? Or am I just misinformed about the risks? One Colombian told me if I had car trouble on a generally safe road, the opportunity would be too good for many passing or living there.

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Sam Salmon says on Nov 17, 2004, 16:31:

OK-Here We Go Again Lionheart-in the past it was true that almost all rural roads were unsafe.
The Good News is that the Old Days are gone hopefully never to return.
So now you'll hear from some people "Sure no problem" and others will say literally "You'll be fine as long as you never leave the city/this neighbourhood/my house/your room".
Believe me we've heard it all here.
I myself travelled some of the roads mentioned in the above posts back in February-no probs of any kind anywhere and the guy I hired to drive for me was happy to see the few Army checkpoints that we did encounter.
It was his opinion-and that of many others-that in the past the Army had little political support for doing their job of keeping the roads safe for all to travel on.
OTOH-How much mountain driving experience do you have?
I live in British Columbia so the roads in Colombia while a bit steeper, more tortuous and narrower held no surprises-for a half blind Belgian that might not be the case.




' a la orden!'

' a la orden!'

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Atrevido (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 17, 2004, 16:43:

Lionheart says on Nov 18, 2004, 14:01:

I have to disagree Sam I had a long talk with my friend in Cali last night about your reply. She is lawyer and has pretty deep insight in the situation. She has to travel a lot to many cities and villages around Cali and stated she would never use her car to do that. Just last week her bus was held up and robbed on the way back to Cali from Palmira. She said if she had been alone in her car anything could have happened.

I also recall a different thread about traveling from Bogota to Medellin, where even worse dangers were pointed out by many living there. Too many others in this forum point out the dangers constantly so that I cannot simply brush their opinions away and say it is safe to drive alone in a car around Colombia, especially as a gringo. If you want to drive, fine, but be aware of the risks.

As for my driving skills, I have mastered almost all the highest passes of the Alps in Europe, several were closed to the public and really adventurous, but fun. I am a rallye fan and a German driver ...

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heat says on Nov 18, 2004, 17:09:

hmmm i don't think i will do that drive from bogota to manizales. i'm a pretty shitty driver anyways. and yes i remember now, very clearly, driving on those curvy mountain roads above bogota and seeing big buses passing cars on those crazy curves (with big cliffs!). i remember one time in particular, as we were driving back to bogota, there were at least a couple of different occasions where a bus was passing a car ahead of them on a teeny, curvy road and we had to swerve to avoid hitting the passing bus head on. they drive a little crazy there. i forgot about that.

with regards to manizales, i was just talking to a friend of my husbands who has spent quite a lot of time in colombia and traveled all over. he told me that he thought manizales was very conservative and there wasn't much going on there. he loved pereira though. he said he thought they had the most beautiful women there.

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Sam Salmon says on Nov 18, 2004, 17:10:

I was thinking about my earlier post this afternoon as I was servicing my truck.
It's so easy and cheap to hire someone with a car in Colombia I'd never drive myself.
The mountain scenery is so beautiful and changing and there's so much to see it's not worth it IMO.
I drive mountain roads here all the time-will be again tomorrow in fact-and so for me a holiday is just that-a chance to relax/gaze out the window/stop shoot photos whenever I want not jostle with large slow trucks on narrow mountain roads.


' a la orden!'

' a la orden!'

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Atrevido (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 18, 2004, 17:48:

litost says on Nov 18, 2004, 20:21:

part 2 The rivalry between Manizales and Pereira is legendary, they are both similair in size and importance, and they are only a little over an hour apart from each other by car! This brings me to the continuation of my description of Manizales...

Culturally speaking it is a direct descendant of the paisas, so in most noticeable aspects the people from Manizales will resemble the people from Medellin. The population is predominantly white and mestizo, the "colonizadores" came from Antioquia to these fertile lands fleeing from ongoing civil wars in the nineteenth century. The following coffee boom gave the city and its population much wealth and power, turning Manizales into an important commercial and cultural center. Many traditional families got wealthy off land ownership and coffee trade, to a great extent this is what created a somewhat rigid and conservative social structure in the city that is still perceivable today... the conservativeness is also derived from a strong attachment to the catholic religion, epitomized by the massive Cathedral in the city center (though unfinished and hollow, still very impressive). So yes, many people have the image of Manizales as a conservative city, especially when compared to the sister city Pereira (the naughty sister, but that's another story...).

But in Manizales I see and have experienced a totally different side. Because it is, above all, a college town... despite its small size, it has a large number of both public and private universities. And they are good quality, among the best after the top universities from Bogota and Medellin. People from all over the Coffee Region and neighboring provinces go study there, sometimes from as far away as Pasto to the south and Santa Marta to the north. Its strategic location, convenient size, and the comfortably cool weather all year makes it an ideal setting for studying. True, the high class in Colombia won't send their kids to study in Manizales, but it is a very respectable location for upper-middle class students and like a dream come true for middle or lower class colombians who manage to study college. Anyways, the point is that since it has an unproportionate number of universities, it also has a high proportion of students... and everyone knows that where there are significant numbers of young people, students, there are bound to be countless options for going out... for night life there's lots of cafes, bars, clubs... for culture there are theatres, events, festivals, expositions, musical shows, etc. In fact, despite being culturally very paisa, there is a certain "Bogota" feel to the city, mostly due to the climate but also to the good manners and education people from Manizales tend to have. But don't worry guys, the women conserve the paisa charms, though a little more covered up. People are civic, worry about keeping their city clean and organized. This is uncommon in the other similair cities in Colombia.

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Lionheart says on Nov 18, 2004, 21:00:

thank you litost I have been reading many of your insider articles about Colombia. Since I will be moving there soon they are of great value to me. I enjoy knowledge and understanding. If you ever plan to go to Europe, please let me return the insite you are giving me.

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Miguel says on Nov 19, 2004, 00:49:

Driver's License Law Now, who knows if it is enforced, but Colombian law requires the International Driver's License. I got one before I went to Colombia in June, but when I rented a vehicle, no one asked to see it. I paid 10usd for it through Triple A Motor Club.

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litost says on Nov 20, 2004, 09:48:

You'r very welcome Lionheart, I'm glad to share my still very limited knowledge of my country with anyone truely interested. I will be moving back soon after almost two years away, so I hope to further my knowledge of Colombia in order to enrich myself and share with everyone here.

I actually am planning on going to Europe sometime in the next few years, I hope to get my Masters degree over there and do some travelling of course... I love Europe, I'm fascinated with its history and all the culture it has given the world. I also think there are a lot of lessons for Colombia to be learned from Europe, on ways of achieving peace and development without giving in to the ultra-capitalist consumption and work obsessed system, which has taken foot in the US and elsewhere.

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villdkatta says on Nov 20, 2004, 14:05:

Litost... what are you studying for your master's degree, if I may be so inquisitive?

Suerte,

Kim

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litost says on Nov 20, 2004, 18:42:

Something along the lines of Economic Development or International Business, hopefully combining both...

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Lionheart says on Nov 21, 2004, 13:06:

Europe .... I guess I can make this offer to anybody interested in Europe. In case I go AWOL from this forum, feel free to contact me via email: Lionheart_Live at hotmail.com

For your studies I would recommend Germany for the high quality, or Spain for ease of language. I heard some Spanish universities are really good. I know Germany offers international courses at certain universities, when you are ready I can help you locate them.

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villdkatta says on Nov 21, 2004, 14:18:

Litost... good luck with your studies! You'll do well in anything you choose, I suspect.

My advice - avoid a thesis if you can. ;-)

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heat says on Nov 23, 2004, 16:43:

More nice information. Thanks Litost. I'm curious to speak more to that friend of my husbands. Once I do I will post his comments. He had also mentioned some other place in the coffee region that he really liked but I didn't quite catch the name of it. We were on a crowded, noisy train.

With regards to studying in Europe - what about the Netherlands? Well actually it might not be the most practical as you would probably have to learn some Dutch. Though for some reason I really love that language. If nothing else it's a great place to go live for a month or 2 or 3...... I think they have wonderful way of dealing with certain social issues and are so very forward thinking in their approach.

Spain however sounds pretty heavenly. I've never made it there yet but my Spanish teacher raves constantly about it. Madrid, Barcelona, Seville, the Alhambra, the warm weather in the south, tapas, wine yatta yatta yatta!

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litost says on Nov 25, 2004, 16:59:

heat... I think you owe me a couple of cups of coffee now ;)

I know I've only given you pretty general and factual info on Manizales, I'm gonna tell you all about the specific places to go and things to do, but I might as well wait a few weeks cuz I'll be back over there and can give you some fresh updated tips.

En ce qui concerne etudier en Europe... well, I already did a year as exchange student during college in Paris, so that is my first choice for getting a Masters because I loved the city and want to practice my french as much as possible until fluency. Germany would be great too, never been there but I'm sure it would be very interesting and I am really starving to get into my fourth language, and I've already taken a few semesters of german in college. Netherlands should have some very good schools too, and the progressive culture and mentality there apeals to me a lot, but the language might be a problem, I enjoy learning new languages but don't know if dutch would be worth it just for a year or two of a Masters, then when would I use it? Britain has some of the best universities of course, but it is almost as expensive as the US and on the down-side I wouldn't be practicing a new language. Spain, been there and had a great time, but wouldn't put it high on my list for studying, because of the language and it just doesn't come off to me as somewhere to really get serious and hit the books.

Anyways, I'm just dreaming out loud... don't even know if I'll have the money to go back to college and study in Europe, especially with the euro through the roof. I try to save up as much as possible, but my hopes are set on some kind of scholarship, which I have been investigating on a lot over the net.

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heat says on Nov 29, 2004, 17:07:

litost muchas gracias amigo for all your help. i'm excited (and jealous) that you will be there shortly. will wait patiently for your reports back and will start saving my pennies for the many coffees i now owe you. this isn't going to be another "adela" situation is it? (just joking)

my favorite town in germany is berlin. love, love, love it there. i'm very interested in design and found the germans in berlin to be very innovative as the dutch are.

the only thing about britain for me is the weather. thus my handle - "heat" i like things hot :)

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