Indeed, Typical PBH Distortions

Tinto (Moderator) says on May 18, 2006, 13:23:

Before your arm gets sore from patting yourself on the back you might consider:



- There has been plenty of discussion on this site about kidnapping for ransom vs. kidnapping for political purposes vs. kidnapping by a family member (marriage/custody disputes)



- There has been discussion about the ransom/extorsion figures vs the other two types and the reporting system(s) the Colombian government uses



- There has been discussion about why the reported numbers soar in December



- I think most people who have posted on this subject or posted a link to a story about this subject are well aware of the fact that a LOT of kidnappings never get reported. The same is true in places like Mexico and Argentina -- Govt figures are far lower than private security consultant figures, although both organizations have a vested interest in having you believe their numbers.

Sr Tertius says on May 18, 2006, 13:56:

Good job G5! "The reason that the kidnapping rate dropped so dramatically had a lot to do with the fact that the criteria for reporting had changed. The Colombian government decided to their own distorting."

As an (reluctantly) appointed member of the Go Go team (by you), let me be the first to congratulate you for rediscovering the light bulb.

In terms of the Uribe regime, this is ancient news.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

Colombiche says on May 18, 2006, 14:00:

Yawn zzzzzzz..... wake me up when somebody stops the broken record.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

ds says on May 18, 2006, 14:56:

Uribe is a media statistis expert! All Uribe did in 4 years was to change the way Colombia counts. He kicked out the director of national statistics institute DANE César Caballero after presenting an uncensored report. As we just learned in this thread even the kidnappings count got reenvented under Uribe. Read last weeks news to learn how military presented innocent but daed farmers as guerilleros killed in battle. (Good for the bodycount statistics and military earns tips on killings.) Paramilitaries got disarmed, but now they carry legal arms. Coca fields grew 30% but Plan Colombia is very effcient. In five years they spent billions of dollars on aerial defense to bring down one single plane with coca. Economy grew 5% this year, but only banking and constructing sector.... All this information gets filtered through vicepresidents media house El Tiempo. In literature you call this "magic realism", one of the very big Colombian innovations!

Gomezman5 says on May 18, 2006, 15:33:

Tinto Kidnapping is kidnapping.

What difference does it make if it's familial or for political purposes. The net result is the same. Who cares what the reason is? To the one that is kidnapped, would you dare suggest that one should feel more assured that one form of kidnapping is preferable to another?

But as typical of how people just demur things around here, your point does not address my post. In fact, you only make it worse. I know that Colombia, as well as in other countries where kidnapping is prevalent, many episodes go unreported. Still that does not address the issue.

The only point that is important here is that when a government superficially changes the parameters so as to make it appear that there are less kidnappings than there actually are, and thus provides a false sense of security and hope, if you will, you have a government that acts out of desperation. By the same token, the credibility of the governmnet is called into question on a host of issues when you try to sugar coat something of this importance.

By the way Tinto, I did not say that it was not discussed. In fact, I said quite the opposite. What I did say, is that while the Go Go Colombia people on here were engaged in some form of mental masturbation over tainted figures released by the government, nobody bothered to address the real reason why the numbers looked as low as they did. Like I said in my opening post, if it feels good, and you like what you hear, than go for it. But, all I am saying is that saying something, does not make it so.

And Colombiche, if you feel that things are going to get better because you keep telling yourself that it will, than keep telling yourself that it will and the net result will be.....nothing gets better, and it might even get worse.

Colombiche says on May 18, 2006, 15:52:

ja ja ja Things are getting better.

Vos si sos un ave de mal aguero, derivas un morboso placer de resaltar todo lo negativo, de esperar todo lo peor y de no dejar ni una pequena rendija por donde entre la luz.

How do you get up from your bed in the morning? Do you play every possible bad scenario or calamity before you walk out the door? I really never met anyone quite like you in real life. Close, but not that negative. Just reading your posts wears me out with all the negativity and cynisim!

If I ever start thinking life is that somber and no bad situation ever gets better, I will end up in a mental home. Every negative situation has a positive side, every problem has a solution. This is how I see the world.

No tapo el sol con un dedo tampoco. I know there are lots of things wrong with colombia and in many small ways I try to do my part to help and will try to do even more in the future. Why do you seem to think that your way of seeing the world is the only right way? Let people be. I think that is why you have lost respect, because you seem to ramble on for the sake of rambling, but nobody quite understands what the heck you are trying to achieve.

If you think Colombia is so bad, what are you doing to help? Rambling on PBH is doing nothing.

At the end of the day, only time will tell. Ni usted ni yo somos duenos de la verdad.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

Sr Tertius says on May 18, 2006, 15:57:

"all I am saying is that saying something, does not make it so." More than 10 paragraphs to say just that? Talk about verborrhea...

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

ds says on May 18, 2006, 16:16:

Positive ...well, Colombiche. As you have read my mind: The only positive in my life was my AIDS-Test. Thats why I need to bother Uribe, the "Leader of the Year". Think positive, read this:
http://www.latinbusinesschronicle.com/reports/reports/1205/uribe.htm

and send your mother in law to vote: Otherwise the good guys have to spend again serious money to get 120% of the votes in Magdalena....

Blue says on May 18, 2006, 16:59:

If gringo murders, kidnappings and atm pistol-whippings are greater than 5% of those visiting the Sane Man Principle says stay away.

Blue

Miguel_Clavo says on May 18, 2006, 17:00:

So Which Is It?? Is the Cup half-full or half-empty??? Whine, whine, whine....Uribe is going to win, so get over it and stop whining about it....Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and i really doubt that anyone here is about to be convinced of a position that is not their own....And i would think that just being able to post on the internet is a positive thing, so now you have 2 positives in your life, DS..=) unless of course, you meant that your AIDS test was Negative (no virus), and not Positive (with virus)......and if all you are doing is whining, bitching, and moaning about all the bad things about Colombia, and you are not doing something positive to make it better, i suggest that you STFU!!! or submit an application to the Whine and Cheese Club..or become a FARC Cheerleader....your option!

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.......faltan 43 días.....

"Ignorance is a Weapon of Mass Destruction..."

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

Miguel_Clavo says on May 18, 2006, 17:24:

Ummm...Gomezman5..... Your link states “According to the attorney general's office, 800 people were kidnapped in Colombia last year, a 50 percent drop from the previous year due at least in part to a change in reporting methodology. A kidnapping is now only officially registered after the attorney general opens an investigation.� I thought “due at least in part to a change in reporting methodology� is not exactly “had a lot to do� with the results. talk about putting a spin on things….and standardizing reporting of crimes is not a new thing…the FBI, who maintains the Uniform Indexing of Crime statistics in the US does it all the time…The FBI does not include “un-reported crimes� in their statistics for obvious reasons….and in California, “kidnapping� your own child in an attempt to deprive the spouse of ones child is not kidnapping, but “childstealing�, a separate category….sooo, the type of “kidnapping� is important…so why shouldn’t Uribes government standardize the statistical methodology, just like all government and NGO’s do… sounds more reasonable an explanation as opposed to the government conspiracies that are all the fad and rage nowadays…...along with being CSI forensic sleuths...now if they change methodologies every year, I agree, sounds fishy, but your comments are not in line with the article…….

Not directed to GM5:

Also noted in the article was the following:

“Earlier this year the FARC said the three men were alive. Uribe has tried to negotiate a hostage swap with the rebels that would include the Americans but the FARC has so far rebuffed him.�

Yup, FARC wants to exchange thousands of FARCettes in exchange for 60+ hostages…..sounds like a good deal to me!......yeah, right….But I did read something that was interesting, though:

“Patricia Medina, the Colombian girlfriend of Keith Stansell and mother of his two-year-old twins, said her children are not recognized as family by the governments because Stansell was kidnapped three months before they were born.�

I fail to see how the 2 children in this would not be recognized as family…and why the 2 kids would even be a factor in negotiations? maybe someone can explain this??


Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.......faltan 43 días.....

"Ignorance is a Weapon of Mass Destruction..."

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

dwmte says on May 18, 2006, 18:17:

whine, moan, yawn, criticize, ridicule, negate, hate, disagree.. woopie...i know i'm on pbh. by now we should all be on the same page and the truth (or at least the one i believe) is that there's more than enough crime and problems in colombia to satisfy anyone...the naysayers and the promotors who deny... whichever, it's an absolutely marvelous country full of gracious, hospitible, loving, caring, sharing souls...not to mention an asshole or two and a fist full of corrupt politicians and their corrupt adversaries, the farc, eln and carlos costeno's buddies. so f****** what!

by the time my ass landed in colombia, 18 or 19 years ago, i had lived and worked for years all over the middle east, india, africa, europe, mexico and central america. i can only share MY experience, but when i finally got to medellin, pablo was alive and well and bombing, killing, kidnapping and trafficking as anygood bad guy should do/would do. that didn't change my opinion at all. it along with los angeles, was the greatest fricken place i'd ever been. sure, there were killings and sequestros...some right in front of me, close enough to touch. but that didn't change my feelings for the place and it still doesn't. i love it. sure, medellin now, in comparison to years ago, is a tourist trap. but it's still one of the greatest places this poor tortured planet has to offer.

common,friends, all of you, give the gal a break and a boost. give her what she needs...LOVE. it is the only medicine that doesn't need to promise anything. it works, it heals, and if applied with a true and faithful heart, it can ultimately change those aspects which we all see as the 'taints' in colombia to something better. just remember, life aint about "good" and "bad" but rather about degrees of good.

peace,

dw

juancegomez says on May 18, 2006, 19:25:

I have to side with Tinto and also with Miguel Clavo, mostly... I have to side with Tinto and also with Miguel Clavo, mostly, as far as the figure is concerned. Not that much with G5 and Sir Tertius, I'm afraid.

For example, the article itself explains that the methodology change is only part of the reason for the modification, not the only reason.

Therefore, generalizing things about all figures from just one or two available examples is, to say the least, rather unscientific (for those few that actually care about that).

And, for the record, even the U.S. and Venezuelan governments (to name but two important examples) have implemented methodology changes in order to, allegedly, better measure certain figures. This isn't an invention or a monopoly of the Uribe regime, let alone of Colombian administrations in general.

This logically doesn't intend to say that no real distortions happen, which is certainly a possibility, but there's a difference between a fabricated distortion (an outright lie and illegal) and the employment of a different methodology (which can be questioned, but is not a fabrication, and in fact can be a scientifically valid modification).

Then again, perhaps some people are happy living in a black and white world...I'm quite happy with the gray, thank you.

To use another example: I don't believe that the UN is intentionally distorting things when it consistently measures significantly LOWER amounts of coca in Colombia than official U.S. estimates do. No lie, look it up.

Both methodologies are different yet scientifically valid, but they can obviously be debated in a serious manner (unless of course, anyone here wants to jump ahead and accuse the UN of "conspiring with Uribe" or somesuch).

Miguel_Clavo says on May 18, 2006, 19:53:

Juancegomez, why did you have to reveal that!!!!! =) Now, all the Crisis-Driven people, both gringo and hispanic are going to have deal with yet another consiracy!! The UN conspiracy where they manipulate the stats!!! These people will never get a chance to lower their blood pressure or stop taking their prosac and valium!!! (maybe a good time to invest in the pill making companies!!)... Well, no more sleep for them!! Too bad, as sometimes it is better to stop and smell the flowers...

There isnt a country that does not have its problems, but that doesnt stop cultural explorers....I believe Colombia is headed in the right direction politically, economically, and the majority of people seem to agree from what i can tell...am i an expert on Colombia? No. Are there ANY experts on Colombia on PBH? No....just a group of people with internet access expressing their perceptions and opinions..i believe it was Colombiche who spoke of low self-esteem of the Colombians, and it is amazing what people can do when they believe in themselves, despite the predictions of those who seem to always have that black cloud following above them!..or was that a cloud of dust stirred up by the security blanket following them...i forget!...oh well...


Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.......faltan 43 días.....

"Ignorance is a Weapon of Mass Destruction..."

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

Miguel_Clavo says on May 18, 2006, 19:54:

Well said, Dwmte!!! Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.......faltan 43 días.....

"Ignorance is a Weapon of Mass Destruction..."

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

Rubiazo says on May 19, 2006, 00:49:

at G5 Let me ask you again, point blank.
Is physical security the most important thing on earth to you?
If people think a place is safe and it's not safe and they go there and die, SO WHAT? The beat goes on. We're all gonna die sometime anyways! What are you anyways, Mr. Save-A-Retard?

I think everybody here is well aware of the fact that Colombia is a violent country. I personally find many things down there that more than make up for that. Why the hell should my or anybody else's priorities in life be your priorities? It's not that any of the info you post is wrong, its just that WE ALREADY KNOW ALL THAT AND REALLY DONT GIVE A DAMN ANYMORE!

I repeat, personally I think security is overrated. I have no respect for anybody who values security over freedom, I believe that those people truly deserve neither. I refuse to live my life and make all decisions based on what is the safest course of action. I'm sure there are many more on here that feel as I do. Why do you feel the need to be our Jewish mother?

webmanco says on May 19, 2006, 06:08:

Sounds like the reincarnation of another poster "And who cares if we don't tell the truth, as long as it makes us feel good. But, woe to the person who comes to this web site for honest information about the security situation in Colombia. He might just end up believing what he reads......to his detriment of course." The person who comes to this website if he/she is into ilegal activities or work for Goverment Agencies with hidden agendas and activities view by ilegal groups as going against their point of view, that person knows that is at a higher risk of being taken away for such activities, so dont´n need to be reminded. But regular folks who just might have a friend in Colombia, or who just want to spend vacations in Colombia, wether it is in Pasto, Cali, Barranquilla, Cartagena, etc. the changes these folks will be taken away from ilegal groups in Colombia are minimal or non-existant. Kidnapping is kidnapping. By reading the Yahoo article I can only come to the conclusion that there weren´t that many kidnappings even before Uribe, yes some of them were real kidnappings, the real kiddnappings are those political related, between ilegal groups to force payment of a deal gone wrong. False kidnappigs are more commun, read this as an example Detenciones Falso secuestro de un taxista Junio 19 de 2005 Un taxista, quien junto con otras tres personas simuló un secuestro para extorsionar a su jefe, fue detenido por unidades del Gaula de la Policía Metropolitana de Cali. De acuerdo con las autoridades, estas personas le hacían creer a un transportador, dueño de varios taxis, que habían secuestrado al conductor de uno de sus vehículos. A cambio de liberar al falso plagiado y de devolverle el carro, le exigían $30 millones. La captura de dos de estas personas se efectuó cuando recibían un paquete que simulaba el dinero de la extorsión en el barrio Nápoles. Luego los otros dos hombres fueron sorprendidos en el Popular. Another example in Argentina Dos casos de falsos secuestros en Ituzaingó pero con distinto final Una mujer pagó 10 mil pesos de rescate por su hijo, quien luego regresó a su casa e informó que nunca había estado secuestrado. En el mismo barrio, otra mujer fue víctima de la misma modalidad pero no llegó a efectuar el pago ya que se contactó antes con su familiar. Unfortuanly security is a business, so Politicians, the military and even the press benefits from it. So there come those articles, each one expressing its point of view, one article Yahoo article expressing the view in favor of the relatives of those kidnapped. The other one trying to express why Uribe should be reelected. I can only be positive as well. Just for the record, It is not "Indeed, Typical PBH Distortions" It is "Indeed, Typical of a few PBH posters distortions"

But, I'm going to start making some assumptions here.... Which means I might actually end up making an ass out of myself ..........Thu 04 17, 2008 11:34 am

dwmte says on May 19, 2006, 06:16:

don uribe again...... que pena jorge baron for president.

amen

dw

bkcarolina says on May 19, 2006, 06:17:

the light bulb was discovered????? where, under a rock?

Sr Tertius says on May 19, 2006, 10:00:

my bad I meant reinvented. Or rediscovered the South Sea. I ran out of metaphors.

Juance: Good points. However, if the Uribe campaign is going to boast improvements in certain indices, the least it could do is temper their claims with footnotes regarding the methodology changes. Otherwise, this is, in the words of the Great George W. Bush, little more the "fuzzy math."

I know, I know... little footnotes don't fit the print of propaganda posters. That's why candidates with academic backgrounds like Gaviria or Mockus don't stand a chance. Now, Jorge Barón or Galy Galeano: That't the caliber of president we probably deserve.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

dwmte says on May 19, 2006, 12:56:

at least jorge baron... has the respect of just about everyone...good guys, bad guys, the general population, etc.

dw

Gomezman5 says on May 19, 2006, 23:47:

Mostly non responsive posts....but Rubi Rubi....
I have decided to address your post only inasmuch as the other are non responsive or invariably distort reality.

Look Rubi, it's not that security is the most important thing to me. I only go to Bogota to visit my family and friends for a couple of weeks. Where I go on the north side of Bogota, is as safe as anywhere in the entire country. The day a person would have to worry about going there, the whole country will have gone to hell. That said, security should be important to the casual traveler. Don't ya think? When you talk about traveling to Colombia, you cannot compare the "base level" of security required for an outsider to that required of myself. I recognize no place is safe. No place. But look, it's not a black and white issue. There are many neighborhoods in Chicago or Miami that I would never even consider going. The Englewood neighborhood in Chicago is about as dangerous as any big city neighborhood in the country. But staying out of bad neighborhoods is very easy. Take Mexico City. At this time even the good colonials like Condeza or Roma are good place to live or work. But, street crime is so common throughout the city, and the police are so ineffective, that it is dangerous to walk through even the best part of condeza. The only Colonial in Mexico City that I can say is 99.9% safe is Polanco. I use Mexico City as an example because it is the second largest city in the world

Colombia, from a security perspective is ok for someone like myself or others who have family...friends....(who will look after them) is ok to visit. But, I would not tell someone who does not have a compelling interest to go there. There are far safer countries to visit. Hey, I feel the same way about Israel. I always get invites from these Jewish organization to take tours to Israel. For what? to run the risk of some bomb going off in an outdoor cafe? And keep in mind, unless you are visiting the West Bank, Israel, overall, is a far safer country than Colombia. Street crime of any form is very low. And as to extortion and kidnapping...that's not even an issue in Israel.

So ...do you understand my perspective better?

morphus says on May 20, 2006, 07:53:

I'm the "guinea pig" when it come to danger in Colombia. When I am in Colombia, I like wandering around strange barrios drunk with a wallet full of pesos bulging out of my pocket. Its also not unusual for me to accept car rides from strangers. If its a strange taxi, I pat him down to make sure he's not carrying weapons. Its also good to check under the seat and in the backseat. So far I have'nt had any problems in Colombia. I know crime exists there like everywhere else in the world. Thats why I don't worry about it. I'm quite sure that horrible things happen to people when they least expect it and in places that they least expect. If you worry about saftey and danger all the time, you can get cancer or heart disease. All that worrying stresses your immune system and clogs your arteries. Right now, if I was offered a free 2 week vacation to take your pick: Isreal, Iraq, Sudan or anywhere else in the world, I would go.

webmanco says on May 20, 2006, 08:29:

Could not agree more. horrible things happen to people when they least expect it and in places that they least expect. If you worry about safety and danger all the time, you can get cancer or heart disease. All that worrying stresses your immune system and clogs your arteries.

and if you transfer those vibes to other persons, it does not make it better.

Could not agree more.

But, I'm going to start making some assumptions here.... Which means I might actually end up making an ass out of myself ..........Thu 04 17, 2008 11:34 am

Gomezman5 says on May 20, 2006, 08:51:

Morphus...Webmanco I understand what you are saying. Look, of something tragic can happen someone anytime wheter you are in a good are or a bad one. But you would have to be dishonest with yourself that it is more likely that you are going to be victimized in a bad area than a good one. The same applies to countries.

I think I made this clear in my above post. People just disagree with me so often, they don't even read my posts. I know that because their post never quite seem to respond to mine. You can cut it anyway you want, but if someone who had no connections to Colombia, were to call me and ask me what country would I reccomend that they visit, Colombia would not be one of them. The security threat is unacceptably high. Peru and Chile, would go to the top of my list. On the other hand if someone told me they were dating someone from Colombia, and they wanted to visit Colombia, I would say it might be safe to visit Colombia. It would depend on what part of Colombia that person came from. Keep in mind that Colombian people that live in Colombia tend to be either dishonest, or naive about the security situation in Colombia. In that regards, it's funny....when Pablo ran around terrorizing Medellin in the late 80's and early 90's, people were getting killed everyday, often by the dozens. When someone witnessed a murder, these people weres scared, their initial response upon questioning was,: Aqui no pasa nada. They just pretended nothing happened, even when they saw the event go down perfectly.

Here in Chicago, Colombian people have a double standard. When they are with their own people, they talk about the situation and how bad things are. When they are with gringos, they tell a different story. I know this...because they always talk one way with me, and when they hear me speaking in a derogatory manner in front of gringos, they get upset with me. Hypocracy at its best/

dwmte says on May 20, 2006, 10:37:

point well made, marcos... i think that one needs to see both sides of this issue CLEARLY; it's is imparative for a long life to make judicious decisions all along the way. failure to do so can mean calamity...often for simply not using common sense. too, 'danger zones' exist everywhere, in all countries and surprises do occur, even in the most unexpected times and locals.

then, being aware of potential dangers, although prudent, can take itself to literally unnecessary extremes wherein the 'thinker' is rendered paranoid of life itself.

we just need to be ever alert, even at home, and don't be driven by fear through life, but guided by common sense and a good measure of caution.

dw

Gomezman5 says on May 20, 2006, 10:51:

Thanks Douglas 2 points....
1. The bias here is so anoying. Are the people here so insecure, that if one in a hundred poster come on here questioning the security situation in Colombia, these people compelled to do everything possible to blast that person off the site. They use everything from personal insults to erroneous conclussions to rebut what I say.

It just amazes me that the same people come on here day after day, talking about the same "mush". Just read the posts. With minor exception, the same posts come up here again and again. I don't see Colombiche writng "zzzzzz" and thus yawning away when someone want to know about plastic surgery in colombia, or safety in Cali. The same nonsense. My point is that while I may sound reduntant, the people for me to be. If despite all the unbiased web sites that give you an honest assertion about the safety sitution in Colombia, if someone comes on here and wants info from the people here that heavily downplay the problems, I'm going to go into high gear and speak my peace. I'll say this, their winning this little battle. I should go back into my email and post the names of people who think like me, that no longer post here anymore because they got disgusted with the situation. It's quite a list. Even the reknowned GIB, threw the towel in one time about a year and a half ago. I have not seen him here for a while, so maybe he did it again.

Second point.
I don't edit my posts. My posts are quite long and I am always worried that I will time out. Hence the left out words, or spelling errors. I know I can write it in word and edit as long as use the spell check, but, I am too lazy to do so.

I forgot
What's happening here? I am using a resolution of 1024x768 and I still can't properly fit the threads on my screen.....What happened?

webmanco says on May 20, 2006, 11:16:

Life goes on
Keep posting and don´t add your name to that black list.

You will always find people thinking different, any way I would stick more on positive views even knownig there are danger zones all over the world, yes even in Colombia.

I can agree more on posts from ColombianoX than GIB.

But, I'm going to start making some assumptions here.... Which means I might actually end up making an ass out of myself ..........Thu 04 17, 2008 11:34 am

Gomezman5 says on May 20, 2006, 11:29:

ColX....should finally come back He is like a legend on this site. Look how long he has been gone, and is name still pops up all the time. I know he still reads the threads. He sent me an email in anger. I did not respond....not because I don't like him. He really is a very nice person. I can say this even though I never met him.

Miguel_Clavo says on May 20, 2006, 11:53:

How can anyone take personally/seriously what is posted here? Everything posted here is opinions....not fact...more fiction than fact..more bullshit than helpful....People are taking this shit personal...call me ignorant, stupid, spic, beaner, wetback, mojado i could give a rats ass. I dont listen to those who portray Colombia as Utopia, nor to those who run around screaming "the sky is falling, the sky is falling!!!" these extreme positions are to be taken with a grain of salt....I can see where Gomezman5 is concerned with security issues, as it readily apparent...however, i have traveled to Colombia many times, and have only had 2 problems (the police in the checkpoints between Cartagena and Barranquilla...."la mordida"...imagine the police trying to scam another copper" hahahah..)

However, seeing the glass as half-full, i recognize the issues and look toward helping solve the problem....as opposed to being a perpetual victim helping the economy out like some drunk americans (=P)...casual tourists anywhere in the world have to be cautious, not only in Colombia.....being positive will help one live longer too.....no guarantee, though!

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.......faltan 41 días.....

"Ignorance is a Weapon of Mass Destruction..."

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

Colombiche says on May 20, 2006, 11:57:

Gomez The reason why the plastic surgery posts don't even get a "zzzzzz" from me is because I zoom past them, don't even go there. Everything on my body is real so far, I don't believe in tummy tucks because I know of a little place called "THE GYM". I might consider a facelift when I am starting to resemble a prune, but that day is still fairly distant.

I couldn't agree more with Miguel Clavo's post. Both extremes are indeed harmful. I don't know why some people here take their pov's so seriously that they fly into a rage when people don't agree with them.

I tend to take a moderate position, no the sky it is not falling and no Colombia is not utopia.

I have never denied that colombia has its share of problems, but G5 keeps blasting me because I believe there is hope.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

morphus says on May 20, 2006, 12:09:

Gomezman5, how do we know you're not part of the distortion? You are a PBH member, are'nt you? You are definately a know-it-all type of guy...ha ha

Miguel_Clavo says on May 20, 2006, 12:43:

Morphus had an idea there...Maybe Gomezman5 and Monporri ... are in reality the SAME person, just split personalities!! has anyone seen them together at the same time???? Then we would know for sure!!!

=)


Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.......faltan 41 días.....

"Ignorance is a Weapon of Mass Destruction..."

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

utopiacowboy says on May 20, 2006, 12:43:

Colombiche, I bet everything about your body is real. REAL FINE. Damm, I imagine you like an Anna de la Reguera. As Colonel Sanders says, it's finger licking good.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Colombiche says on May 20, 2006, 12:49:

ha ha ha ha ha.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

Colombiche says on May 20, 2006, 12:58:

Big A Yes, I'm one of the girls that's at the mental home with you, guess which one.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

COLDK says on May 20, 2006, 13:03:

Who could imagine that after leaving Colombia to escape from violence , one could die cause of a terroist artack in NY, Madrid or London?.

G5: "Here in Chicago, Colombian people have a double standard. When they are with their own people, they talk about the situation and how bad things are. When they are with gringos, they tell a different story. I know this...because they always talk one way with me, and when they hear me speaking in a derogatory manner in front of gringos, they get upset with me. Hypocracy at its best/"
Para ninguna madre hay hijo cabezón ni barrigón! Do you think a mother will ever accept that strangers start talking bad about her kids even whe she knows very well how difficul they are?

Colombiche says on May 20, 2006, 13:16:

Did you ever watch that novela porque diablos? Remember the psychologist lady?

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

Gomezman5 says on May 20, 2006, 16:05:

OK Colombiche, At least should consider myself fortunate that you take time to read my posts, as opposed to the ones on platic surgery. By the way, I was not implying that you should read them or that you were in need of such services. If I recall, you said you are a woman in your 20's, so if that's the case, I would hope that you're not contemplating plastic surgery. As to your contention that the gym is the way to go......When you get a bit up there in age (a bit) absent digital photography, it takes a lot more than a guy to make you appear they way you really want to appear.

Rubiazo says on May 20, 2006, 21:23:

Part of what heats me up Is that when people hear that I'd like to move to Colombia, they get all crazy like as if I belong in a mental institution. Is there a higher risk factor than here in NYC? HELL YEAH!

But the day I start worrying about safety UBER ALLES is the day somebody needs to put a bullet in my skull and end my miserable existence. G5, there are plenty of great things about Colombia than IMO more than make up for the security threat. I actually think the USA's best years were also it's most violent and dangerous years. Now that the violence is over I'm bored shitless and need a new adventure. See ya on the flip side :)

dwmte says on May 22, 2006, 07:09:

shit!... i thought ya'll called it a draw and got onto issues that brought greater concensus of opinion. needless to say, i was wrong.

dw

Gomezman5 says on May 22, 2006, 09:42:

My typing again!!!!! Some day, I really will edit my posts. In my above post, I said it will take more than a "guy" to make you appear the way you want to. I meant to say "gym". That of course was not a spelling error, it was a typo. (Kernow will not believe me though). On the other hand, maybe it was a freudian slip?

dwmte says on May 22, 2006, 13:30:

geez, marcos... all this time i thought it was the 'guy' within me that makes me appear the way i do... one more dillusion shot to hell!

dw

kernow62 says on May 23, 2006, 04:15:

I am not going to say a thing about your typing G5. Now go enjoy your nice, piping hot bowel of soup. ;-)

Colombiche says on May 23, 2006, 04:47:

I did wonder ... what you meant by "it will take more than a guy" .... what, by the time you get up there in age it takes 2 guys or more?

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

dwmte says on May 23, 2006, 04:53:

i knew.... the moment i saw G5 and colombiche on the posting and responding lines of this thread there was good chance of lucha....

i'm disappointed...common, you two can both do much better. get the gloves on and let's get at it again. go ahead marcos, finish your soup and you, colombiche, organize your make-up and brush your teeth, the opening bell is just moments away.

Colombiche says on May 23, 2006, 08:55:

DW so the Roman colisseum-attending masses sound like they want to see a bloody spectacle. You want bloody bring me somebody meaner than Gman, for all the roaring and clawing, he can be still be tamed in about 5 minutes or less ;)

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

Gomezman5 says on May 23, 2006, 09:12:

"he can be still be tamed in about 5 minutes or less" Sad but true. Some women have this ability to mellow me out fairly quickly. I just tend to succumb to the forces that they emit. Whether Colombiche has the ability to maniputate me in such a manner remains to be seen.

And Colombiche......what's this:

"by the time you get up there in age it takes 2 guys or more?'

How the hell do you know what I am capable of doing? I think you're being way too presumptive.

Colombiche says on May 23, 2006, 09:22:

"by the time you get up there in age it takes 2 guys or more?"

You said "when you get up there it takes more than a guy"....

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

Colombiche says on May 23, 2006, 09:25:

How the hell do you know what How the hell do you know what I am capable of doing?

I never said I know what you are capable of doing, did I?

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

Gomezman5 says on May 23, 2006, 09:33:

No No Colombiche.... You did not read my post about typos......I corrected myself. You said you said....back somewhere, that you did not need plastic surgery. You said, all you needed was to go to a GYM. I said when you get to be my age, it will take you more than a GUY, but I meant to say GYM.

In other words, I corrected myself in the post about my typos. See above.....if you would have read that post, you would have caught my correction.... :)

Colombiche says on May 23, 2006, 09:43:

Retroactive I will go back and read. You didn't answer my question:

When did I say that I know what you are capable of doing?

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

Miguel says on May 23, 2006, 10:07:

Oye Colombiche y G5 At no point in this hijacked thread did you (CB) state that you (G5) stated that you (CB) knew what you (G5) knew what you (G5) were capable of.

GOL Colombiche.

Mr. Hollywood says on May 23, 2006, 10:20:

Back to kidnapping for a sec This G5 comment strikes me as naive: "Kidnapping is kidnapping. What difference does it make if it's familial or for political purposes."

Well, let's see, would you rather be a child caught up in custody battle between two divorced parents (the usual cause of familial kidnapping) but treated well by the parent who presumably loves you enough to take you, or, in contrast, would you rather be taken by a guerilla group who will march you through the jungle for months on end, keep you in a pig-wire cage, and then, even after a ransom has been paid, they'll very likely just shoot you in the head anyway. I know which I'd pick.

Sr Tertius says on May 23, 2006, 11:07:

"Kidnapping is kidnapping" Whoa. I missed that one completely. That's like saying "death is death, regardless of whether you are clubbed to death by a criminal gang, fried in a chair by your government, or due to liver cancer. The net result is the same."

It is obvious, almost trivial at this point, that the government has played with its stats. But that's just not as simple as adding a zero here, or dividing by two there.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

Gomezman5 says on May 23, 2006, 13:29:

Hollywood.....you took my post out of context..and Colombiche HOLLYWOOD

Calling me naive due to your taking my post out of context is your problem. Behold:

Tinto, made the following post at the begining of this thread:

"There has been plenty of discussion on this site about kidnapping for ransom vs. kidnapping for political purposes....."

Those are Tinto's words.

In the context of either form of kidnapping in Colombia, I see both of them as essentially political in nature and therefore of equal significance. It's the guerilla's who do most of the kidnapping, and if that is not kidnapping for political purposes, than what is it? I was not comparing it to situations to where kidnapping is done by one parent so as to deprive the other parent of the right to custody and/or contact with the child.

I was not ever addressing the issue of a kidnapping in a familial setting. Any fool would recognize the difference. I was just saying when it come to kidnapping in Colombia, let's not split hairs.

I think that clarifies things.

COLOMBICHE
You said,(refering to my age)"by the time you get up there in age it takes 2 guys or more?"

So....I assumed you were referring to me when I mistakenly said that it a guy as opposed to a gym was all that was needed for you to stay in shape.....forget it... there is too much miscommunication..

Colombiche says on May 23, 2006, 13:52:

Non capisco niente.. sono molto confusa Two guys, at your age? Woudn't even recommend one! That's not what I said.

I'm confused. could have spared ourselves the confusion by using spellcheck ha ha ha.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

Sr Tertius says on May 23, 2006, 14:10:

The Context Tinto: "There has been plenty of discussion on this site about kidnapping for ransom vs. kidnapping for political purposes [G5, look at what your ellipses were hiding, talk about "out of context":] vs. kidnapping by a family member (marriage/custody disputes)"

G5, then: "Kidnapping is kidnapping. What difference does it make if it's **familial** or for political purposes. The net result is the same. Who cares what the reason is? To the one that is kidnapped, would you dare suggest that one should feel more assured that one form of kidnapping is preferable to another?" (my emphasis)

G5, now: "It's the guerilla's who do most of the kidnapping, and if that is not kidnapping for political purposes, than what is it? I was not comparing it to situations to where kidnapping is done by one parent so as to deprive the other parent of the right to custody and/or contact with the child." Then what does "familial kidnapping" mean?

Maybe I shouldn't be such a nitpicker, but making an explicit retraction shouldn't hurt that much.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

dwmte says on May 23, 2006, 15:03:

RRIIIINNNNGGGG...... ok boxers, go to your corners....

take a drink...preferrably ron medellin and some coke and sit back.. kick back, catch your breath.....

the fight's almost over and looking at the point count, there are no winners, only whinners. whoops sorry, sounds like i'm whinning.

rriinngg.... go ahead, get at it/each other. then, kiss and make up.

big a...have you been keeping score?
tertius...wont ask you, it's clear you have been.

oh GOD, yawn, here we go again.

Mr. Hollywood says on May 23, 2006, 19:04:

G5 I don't understand how I quoted you out of context. You said "familial". Does that have a meaning I don't understand?

BTW, a huge portion of the kidnapping in Colombia is done by criminal gangs simply as a way of extorting money. Even kidnapping by the guerillas is divided into two different categories: political and extortionate. You'll notice that the FARC never asked for a ransom for Ingrid or for the 3 American contractors. They're holding them as political negotiating chips. When they grab a bunch of oil patch workers and ask for $5million, that's considered extortionant, because the aim is to raise money, not political leverage.

Monpirri says on May 23, 2006, 19:18:

The Word's Largest Cities Here we go again, patronizing the other country, as usual on this forum. If we have more people like him patronizing Colombia here on PBH, the public opinion on our country will have a positive and definitely a more favorable outcome in all prospects!


The world's largest cities
Cities ranked 1 to 100

Rank City Country Population
1 SEOUL South Korea 10,231,000
2 São Paulo Brazil 10,009,000
3 Bombay India 9,925,000
4 JAKARTA Indonesia 9,373,000
5 Karachi Pakistan 9,339,000
6 MOSKVA (Moscow) Russia 8,297,000
7 Istanbul Turkey 8,260,000
8 MEXICO (Mexico City) Mexico 8,235,000
9 Shanghai China 8,214,000
10 TOKYO Japan 8,130,000
11 New York (NY) USA 8,008,000
12 BANGKOK Thailand 7,506,700
13 BEIJING China 7,362,000
14 Delhi India 7,206,000
15 LONDON UK 7,074,000
16 HongKong China 6,843,000
17 CAIRO Egypt 6,800,000
18 TEHRAN Iran 6,758,000
19 BOGOTA Colombia 6,422,000
20 Bandung Indonesia 5,919,000
21 Tianjin China 5,855,000
22 LIMA Peru 5,681,000
23 Rio de Janeiro Brazil 5,613,000
24 Lahore Pakistan 5,143,000
25 Bogor Indonesia 5,000,000
26 SANTIAGO Chile 4,788,000
27 St Petersburg Russia 4,678,000
28 Shenyang China 4,669,000
29 Calcutta India 4,399,000
30 Wuhan China 4,040,000
31 Sydney Australia 4,031,000
32 Guangzhou China 3,935,000
33 SINGAPORE Singapore 3,894,000
34 Madras India 3,841,000
35 BAGHDAD Iraq 3,841,000
36 Pusan South Korea 3,814,000
37 Los Angeles (CA) USA 3,694,000
38 Yokohama Japan 3,426,000
39 DHAKA Bangladesh 3,397,000
40 BERLIN Germany 3,386,000
41 Alexandria Egypt 3,339,000
42 Bangalore India 3,302,000
43 Malang Indonesia 3,173,000
44 Hyderabad India 3,145,000
45 Chongqing China 3,127,000
46 Ho Chi Minh City Vietnam 3,015,000
47 Haerbin China 2,990,000
48 ANKARA Turkey 2,984,000
49 BUENOS AIRES Argentina 2,965,000
50 Chengdu China 2,954,000
51 Ahmedabad India 2,954,000
52 Casablanca Morocco 2,943,000
53 Chicago (IL) USA 2,896,000
54 Xian China 2,872,000
55 MADRID Spain 2,823,000
56 Surabaya Indonesia 2,801,000
57 PYONGYANG NorthKorea 2,741,000
58 Nanjing China 2,678,000
59 KINSHASA Congo (Zaire) 2,664,000
60 ROMA Italy 2,648,000
61 Taipei China 2,640,000
62 Osaka Japan 2,598,000
63 KIEV Ukraine 2,589,000
64 YANGON Myanmar 2,513,000
65 Toronto Canada 2,500,000
66 Zibo China 2,484,000
67 Dalian China 2,483,000
68 Taegu South Korea 2,449,000
69 ADDIS ABABA Ethopia 2,424,000
70 Jinan China 2,403,000
71 Salvador Brazil 2,331,000
72 Inchon South Korea 2,308,000
73 Semarang Indonesia 2,221,000
74 Giza Egypt 2,221,000
75 Changchun China 2,192,000
76 Havanna Cuba 2,192,000
77 Nagoya Japan 2,171,000
78 Belo Horizonte Brazil 2,154,000
79 PARIS France 2,152,000
80 TASHKENT Uzbekistan 2,142,000
81 Fortaleza Brazil 2,139,000
82 Sukabumi Indonesia 2,137,000
83 Cali Colombia 2,128,000
84 Guayaquil Ecuador 2,117,000
85 Qingdao China 2,101,000
86 Izmir Turkey 2,081,000
87 Cirebon Indonesia 2,080,000
88 Taiyuan China 2,051,000
89 BRASILIA Brazil 2,016,000
90 BUCURESTI Romania 2,016,000
91 Faisalabad Pakistan 2,008,000
92 Quezon City Philippines 1,989,000
93 Medan Indonesia 1,988,000
94 Houston (TX) USA 1,953,000
95 Abidjan Côte d’Ivorie 1,929,000
96 Mashhad Iran 1,887,000
97 Medellín Colombia 1,885,000
98 Kanpur India 1,879,000
99 BUDAPEST Hungary 1,825,000
100 CARACAS Venezuela 1,823,000

http://www.citymayors.com/features/largest_cities1.html

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

Monpirri says on May 23, 2006, 19:22:

If you do not like the list above Largest Cities in the World - List One
Most Populous Urban Agglomerations

This is a listing of the 26 most populous cities in the world (those having a population over eight million). Data are estimates from late 2005.
All population figures for the world's largest urban areas are simply estimates. There's no way to know the exact population of such a large place. If you don't like this list, you can review Largest Cities in the World - List Two, based on different methodologies. Both lists are valid estimates.

1. Tokyo-Yokohama, Japan - 33,200,000
2. New York, United States - 17,800,000
3. Sao Paulo, Brazil - 17,700,000
4. Seoul-Incheon, South Korea - 17,500,000
5. Mexico City, Mexico - 17,400,000
6. Osaka-Kobe-Kyoto, Japan - 16,425,000
7. Manila, Philippines - 14,750,000
8. Mumbai, India (formerly Bombay) - 14,350,000
9. Jakarta, Indonesia - 14,250,000
10. Lagos, Nigeria - 13,400,000
11. Kolkata, India (formerly Calcutta) - 12,700,000
12. Delhi, India - 12,300,000
13. Cairo, Egypt - 12,200,000
14. Los Angeles, United States - 11,789,000
15. Buenos Aires, Argentina - 11,200,000
16. Rio de Janeiro, Brazil - 10,800,000
17. Moscow, Russia - 10,500,000
18. Shanghai, China - 10,000,000
19. Karachi, Pakistan - 9,800,000
20. Paris, France - 9,645,000
21. Nagoya, Japan - 9,000,000 (tie)
21. Istanbul, Turkey - 9,000,000 (tie)
23. Beijing, China - 8,614,000
24. Chicago, United States - 8,308,000
25. London, United Kingdom - 8,278,000
26. Shenzhen, China - 8,000,000

http://geography.about.com/od/urbaneconomicgeography/a/agglomerations.htm

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

Gomezman5 says on May 23, 2006, 20:48:

sir Tertius...or ...whatever and hollywood First...The "Sir"
I took nothing out of context....NOTHING. I did not address the familial aspect of kidnapping because it was not in the context of what I wanted to address. I didn't get my education from a box of cracker jacks. Anyone that would compare the situation where familial rivalries and jealousies that cause one form of kidnapping, with the type of kidnappinging done by guerilla groups, would have to be an idiot. I addressed 2 or the three types that Tinto mentioned. I have the perogative of addressing all or part or any one part of what was said. I did not slant, or distort. I said it and I'll say it again, political kidnaping and common street kidnappings are the same, that's my opinion. If you don't like it toooooo bad!!!!! If you want to split hairs, than pluck one from the top of your head and splice away.

And Hollywood, the same...What nonsense you guys write. So I am supposed to believe that if the FARC kidnapps you, it's really supposed to make a difference to the loved ones of the person if the perosn was kidnapped because of politics or because of extortion??? Cut the crap. BTW, FYI, you're not talking to a neophyte. What you neglected to say is that a lot of the so called "criminal gangs" that kidnap, sell their hostages to bigger and more sophisticated kidnappers and very often they are sold to the guerillas. I hate to tell you that happens more often than you think. Why? Kidnapping in and of itself is not that hard. Holding the person and negotiating a successful amount to return your hostage is far more difficult and hence the guerillas are in a much better positon to handle that end of things. ....Please, don't write to me like I am clueless about this stuff....I am quite obviously not.

Hollywood, Sir Ter....(whatever) started making silly posts, I expect better from you.

Mr. Hollywood says on May 23, 2006, 21:12:

I still don't understand how I took you out of context. You wrote what I quoted. It's pretty clear, unless there's another meaning of "familial" that I don't know.

I principle, I agree with you that the difference between "political" and "extortive" seems like hairsplitting. Personally, I think about it like the apocryphal 200 words for snow in Eskimo languages. If you've got a lot of kidnapping, you've got to figure out some way to parse it.

Gomezman5 says on May 23, 2006, 23:04:

Hollywood..... It's just not like you to do this kind of stuff. Let's just forget it....

dwmte says on May 24, 2006, 04:29:

yawn... let's see now...what was this thread about?

duh

Miguel says on May 24, 2006, 05:26:

...dejeme ver... Accounting?

Sr Tertius says on May 24, 2006, 06:55:

"what was this thread about?" I don't know, but they are giving away titles of nobility if you point at incongruencies and endure silly replies. Is a limited time offer.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

Colombiche says on May 24, 2006, 07:51:

..... "...they are giving away titles of nobility if you point at incongruencies and endure silly replies..."


Indeed, they are.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

Colombiche says on May 24, 2006, 08:12:

Hmmmm... Brody has been a member for 6 days and he says "G5 rules".

This is too hard to guess.. who could he be???

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

Colombiche says on May 24, 2006, 08:14:

Si se creen los Expertos Si saben tanto sobre Colombia, escriban en pinche Español para creerles.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

Colombiche says on May 24, 2006, 08:28:

Brody Como que si me da la impresión de que te estas pasando por "varias personas a la vez"....

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

Colombiche says on May 24, 2006, 08:31:

Pues resulta que en Bogota si he escuchado que se usa la palabra "pinche", sobretodo entre los sardinos.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

Miguel_Clavo says on May 24, 2006, 08:33:

Brody must have not taken his anti-hallucinating pills.. and paranoia pills again this morning.....sound pretty much paranoid about everything, including his/her shadow....or was that a first reading to an upcoming fiction novel? I happen to live in the land of beach bunny beauties, so Colombia hardly has the market on "beautiful women", and although i would agree that a majority of single males enroute to colombia go there for the sex trade industry and wife-shopping, there are some people on PBH who are not PBH-nazis, which is pretty much an ignorant term by itself, but who can appreciate things about Colombia other than Colombian putang....Which, btw, is the only thing that Platano and i can agree on, meaning Colombian culture....And i have always posted that there are no Experts on Colombia here (sorry to hurt the feelings of those self-appointed pseudo-intellectual experts..=(.....just people with varying experiences, perceptions, and opinions. Each individual person has their own level of security in which they live...some are totally oblivious to danger, whereas others see danger where it does not exist....Colombia can be dangerous in some places....others it is not so dangerous. the usa can be dangerous in some places...and in others it is not so dangerous. To require bullet proof vests is not needed in Colombia when visiting there. But to walk around not exercising common sense saftey precautions is just plain stupid, but that applies here in sunny California as well....

However, to see kidnapping as a probably result if one visits Colombia is just plain ridiculous and unfounded. Feeding paranoia is not wise. And to have fantasies in how the victims of kidnappings are treated, as mentioned by brody, indicates a watching of too many action movies....

If one goes to play with the bad guys in Colombia, then shit can and does happen....but for the general tourist, leave your Kevlar at home......and enjoy the culture and what Colombia has to offer....Colombia es Pasión!

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.......faltan 37 días.....

"Ignorance is a Weapon of Mass Destruction..."

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

Colombiche says on May 24, 2006, 08:44:

Tomese las pastillas que te r Tomese las pastillas que le recetaron para la esquizofrenia, parece que se le paso la hora de la dosis.

Se dice: "Usted puede pensar lo que quiera"
No: "Usted puede pensar que quieres"

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

Sr Tertius says on May 24, 2006, 08:59:

Pinche es una palabra perfectamente colombiana, bogotana para ser más precisos. De ahí se deriva el famoso PPP: "Pobre Pinche Pendejo".

Ejemplo de uso: "El pinche altanero éste entró repartiendo insultos y cuestionando la nacionalidad de los participantes; ni originalidad tiene. PPP"

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

Colombiche says on May 24, 2006, 08:59:

Gosh "Affraid"...
for Christ's sake, you can't even spell in English.

You are obviously a beginner, you didn't have to tell us that. That shines through with every word you type.

Quit insulting me before your sorry ass gets deleted.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

Miguel_Clavo says on May 24, 2006, 09:03:

isnt Brody the same type of name category as Biffy and Buffy? Dont embarrass the rest of us Americans by calling yourself an American..you seem to have this "Nazi" paranoia theme going on...be sure to mention that to your therapist, ok? ..take your meds and all will be well in short order....temper, temper, mijo.....and what do you know about my "action" in CA, or do you just really want to live vicariously through me?

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.......faltan 37 días.....

"Ignorance is a Weapon of Mass Destruction..."

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

Colombiche says on May 24, 2006, 09:04:

Ja ja ja Y fuera de ser PPP, debe tener hasta "cachupe" el mansito.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

Miguel_Clavo says on May 24, 2006, 09:05:

Whoz your daddy, brody???/ Clavo is!!!! jajaja Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.......faltan 37 días.....

"Ignorance is a Weapon of Mass Destruction..."

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

Miguel_Clavo says on May 24, 2006, 09:09:

Ignoramus....aka Brodyopolous delusionatus... "Hey Clavo!!!!
Don't take it out on me because they are closing down the borders in California. I swear I had nothing to do with it. I'll bet you were one of the protestors huh?"

read my post entitled "Mexican hypocrisy"...enlighten yourself about my position on illegal immigration before opening up that blowhole of yours......this mexicano might actually suprise you!

you need to return to Somalia where you can finish acting out your sex fantasies and desires to star in a "snuff" film, bro...



Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.......faltan 37 días.....

"Ignorance is a Weapon of Mass Destruction..."

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

Gomezman5 says on May 24, 2006, 09:13:

Colombiche....your comment is out of line. And I will tell you why.

It makes no difference how long our new PBH member has been affiliated with this site. 6 Days or 6 hours...it is irrlevant. What is relevant however is that as a new member, unlike many who we often label as trolls, he presented a very honest an cogent argument that just so happens to be supportive of my position. Are you that insecure with your position about Colombia, that you feel that you have to attack a new member because you happen to be displeased with the content of his post? Of course you are! Suffice to say, if he came on here as a new member and started posting the mumbo jumbo that monpirri and others like him post, we would here nary a word from you....Isn't that true? Those are rhetorical questions by the way.

When you consider that about 9 out of 10 share your perspective, and disagree with mine, it astounds me that you would feel so intimidated by the fact that another new member would enter this site and try to take on the Go Go Colombia gang. Sounds a little arrogant to me.

There is a bit of sarcasm in your second post that implies that our new member might not be who he is? What's your point? Would you mind being a little more direct? If you're thinking what I am think you are thinking, please don't insult me in that way. If I wanted to create a new member to help bolster my minority opinion, don't you think I would have done that a long time ago? You sound silly. Very !
There is something called an IP address. I can assure you that this person's IP address does not even closely resemble mine.

So Colombiche, give our new member a break, and just keep in mind that now when you argue a point on Colombia, you will have to argue with someone that is even more eloquent, and expresses his argument in a manner even better than I do. That will just make your work that much more difficult.

And since nobody has bothered to welcome our new member, allow me this moment to take the opportunity to do so. And buddy, don't let the Go Go cheerleaders intimidate you off this site. They will try, as exhibited with the warm greeting from Colombiche, but, just hang in there.