Immigration TO Colombia

miamimike says on Dec 27, 2004, 19:43:

Para la izquierda(legal?) You may want to ask some of the longtime posters here what avenues are open to you if marry a colombian citizen. May speed the process up drastically. They do that in Mexico frequently. If you were going to panama, honduras or Nicarauga you may fall under these countries "Pensionado" program and your $800/monthly would get you in like Flynn but Colombia, to my knowledge, does not offer such a program. That puzzles me because I would think Colombia would be bending over backwards to attract new residents, especially those with a guarenteed income in Hard Currency. In those other 3 countries I mentioned-they also let the Pensionados import a their cars, Motorcycles and boats plus their household items when they relocate there TAX FREE and then every 2-3 years after that, they can import a new car tax free. These are great deals but not in Colombia.

Avatar Legend: Bush "If any of you Reporters are wondering, it was a Size 10"

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Gomezman5 says on Dec 27, 2004, 20:27:

They probably don't believe you! I think the concept of someone immigrating to Colombia is so foreign to Colombian officials, they have no reason to set up a system for people to immigrate. In your case, they really don't believe you are going to do so unless there is a hidden agenda. (FARC sympathzer.etc)

Apart from those who are of Colombian origin, or those that still have family in Colombia, frankly, I have never heard of anyone immigrating to Colombia. Immigration means a permanent state of residency. Americans come to Colombia all the time to work, to tour,or a combination of both. However, I have never heard of an American moving there with the intent to stay there and not return here (states).

0 funny, 0 helpful.

kernow62 says on Dec 27, 2004, 21:20:

Gomezman5 believe it or not it happens. There are a few on this list as well as a few I know personally. I will admit that it is not common and you are correct in that it is probably a bit suspect to officials.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Gomezman5 says on Dec 27, 2004, 22:01:

It happens...but ...... I know 2 people in Bogota. But, again immigration by law requires a committment to permanency. Countries don't ussually allow you to get permanent residency unless they really belive you are going to stay.
Furthermore, they want to know why.

Allow me to elaborate. By issuing a visa, and requiring a person from time to time, to renew the visa, either by extention or by changing the type of visa from one to another, it allows the country to keep track of your movement. You mentioned Panama and Mexico earlier. Colombia is a far cry form Mexico and Panama. Those 2 countries are not having a civil war going on. In the case of Mexico, no country in the world has the degree of interlocking business relations with the US like Mexico does. In any event, when someone says let me move to your country, don't worry, I have the money to survive, just give me a visa.......that does not quite cut it....so to speak. By making him renew his visa, they know where he is and generally what he is up to while in Colombia, if they want to inquire. Now it's different if he says he is coming there for a job with a company. These people do not get immigrant visas, they get extended stay visas of the type that the US gives to foreign nationals who come here to work. Such as the way the doctors we have from India and asia, and the number of nurses we have from the phillipines come here. They can change their non immigrant visas to immigrant visas and obtain permanent residency after they get here--albeit at least 2 years later. But NOBODY, enters this country with any type of visa that grants them permanent residency status.

Now, how do these people stay in colombia?? That is the only real issue here. It's simple. As your visa expires, they go to DAS and they extend the visa. It's done almost without question. In fact, I think that the the Colombian embassy has limited power in terms of granting the amount of time a person may stey. I believe 4 months is the most amount of time. But, I think upon presenting yourself to DAS in Colombia, they can give extensions of much longer periods of time if they want to do so. Think of it this way. When the US embassy issues a visa to a Colombian in Bogota, that never gurantees entrance to the US. Especially these days, many Colombians arrive to US ports of entry, (NY MIAMI, etc) only to get refused entry by our own homeland security dept. They have total discretion as to if one is going to be admitted and how long one can stay here. DAS, functions in very much the same way.

I think he will do fine if he enters Colombia and goes to DAS for an extention..

0 funny, 0 helpful.

untreated says on Dec 28, 2004, 07:43:

I did it in 1975. I had to get a notarized job contract (Forma Minerva), as an English teacher, at a private high school (Bachillerato) which had a "personería jurídica". With this contract and other requirements, including a local police clearance, I applied for (at a Colombian Consulate)and received (from the Colombian Ministerio de Relaciones Exteriores) a resident visa, which allowed me to get married to a Colombian in a civil ceremony in 1978.

After I was resident in Colombai for 2 years, DAS ("FBI") investigated my activities, and I was given permanent resident status.

I renewed my ID card (Cédula de Extranjería) every five years, until in 2002, I got my laminated barcoded resident ID valid for life.

By the way, one of my children recently started a thread in this forum.

Web site: geocities dot com slash SantaMarta3000

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Gomezman5 says on Dec 28, 2004, 08:25:

Untreated---says essentially the same as me There is a difference between you wanting to go to Colombia, wherein you seek employment after arrival versus going there with a specific employment opportunity already in hand like Untreated had. In the later case, it is clear why you will be going there and what your intentions will be during your stay. In fact, I would not be telling the embassy about how much money you have and that you desire to buy property. That might work to your detriment in that agaim, they don't know who you are or what you will be doing there. Remember, the political climate is different there.

In fact, I'll go a step further about your desire to buy property. You probably will not be able to do so unless you have some form of permanent residency. In Colombia, the cedula that Untreated is referring to, is a form of national identification that all residents of Colmbia must have to do almost anything involving the government or making commercial transactions. In fact, I know of a dry cleaners in Medellin that asked me for my ceduala when I took clothes to them for cleaning. I am certain you will need a cedula to buy property. This type of activity is normal for Latin America. As close as are relationship is with Mexcio (US), up until only recently, American citizens were not able to purchase property in Mexico. Even now, there are limitations.

If I were you, I would stay in touch with Untreated (the person with the prior entry). I think this person can fill you in on all the requirements you will need to teach there. Then secure a job in writing from a rebutable school before you go. You can always change things when you get there, but you will probably have to notify DAS.\

0 funny, 0 helpful.

untreated says on Dec 28, 2004, 08:37:

I have been lurking for years so I want to take this opportunity to say hello to all the posters, especially the guajiro Elmo DeLuque, also DJSL, whazzupa?

The Colombians don't want any trailer trash or rednecks migrating, if you are worthy then you may be approved for the privilege of living for the rest of your life with a Colombian in Colombia.

Challenge: let's make this the most active post!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

tzion says on Dec 28, 2004, 08:44:

Thanks all... ...for answering. Something tells me I'd better get
a foothold in eg. Panama first, marry a Colombiana
(which I'm hoping to do anyway) and then move to
Colombia. Crap.

Untreated, I'm definitely not trailer trash: I have
a degree in law from the University of London, a lot
of computing/programming knowledge, speak several
languages...y'hear naw. According to the above, I
should really secure a job offer before going
anywhere. What chance does a guy from Europe have
to get a teaching job in Colombia over the
Internet!!?

Similar experience, anyone? *cheesy grin*

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Patrick says on Dec 28, 2004, 09:04:

Have you thought of… Have you thought of a business visa? If you go to www.cartagenainfo.net there is a section on retiring to Colombia to live. This is not an easy site to navigate but if you scroll down on the left you will see a text link “investing, retiring” click on it and it will take you to a page entitled “Retiring in Cartagena, Colombia” scroll down to the section on “Your own business in Cartagena, Colombia” in that paragraph you’ll see a “Click here” takes you to a page written by a local Attorney send him an e-mail and get the straight skinny from him. The reason I’m suggesting this approach is that in order for you to do any banking business in Colombia you must have a “Cedula de Extranjeria” (Colombian I. D. Card) and you can’t get one on a tourist visa. They are not hard to get and are issued by Departamento Administrativo de Seguridad (D.A.S.) but you must have one to open a bank account or transact business.

Hope this helps you.

Patrick

Don't blame me I voted for Ron Paul!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Gomezman5 says on Dec 28, 2004, 09:34:

Tzion---I think she was joking I think Untreated was only joking since we were all talking about the twists and turns for one to live in Colombia. Her first thread was very informative and helpful to you.

Now one word of caution................!!!!
If you want to marry a Colombiana, DO NOT FIND ONE IN PANAMA!!
No way, no exceptions, UNLESS you can confirm that she is working for a legitimate company--in other words, where there is an office, a desk, a phone etc. Colombians have strict limitations on their ability to work legally in Panama. Most, young, hot Colombians working in Panama, are working illegally and they are working in prostitution or prostitution related professions. Not all, but a lot of them--clearly a majority. I only say this because you are mentioning going to Panama and wanting to marry Colombian......Careful man. Listen these hot Colombians will charm the pants off you---figuratively and literally if ...you are not careful.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

tzion says on Dec 28, 2004, 09:46:

Patrick and Gomezman: Well, I didn't think of a business visa because I thought that was only for people who had a job offer in Colombia. It had seemed that Colombia has no "investment" program as such. But I've e-mailed that lawyer so fingers crossed.

Gomezdude, hehe, no worries: I was thinking of finding myself a lady in Colombia itself. :-)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Gomezman5 says on Dec 28, 2004, 10:01:

Good idea !! Forget aboutlooking in Panama !

0 funny, 0 helpful.

tzion says on Dec 28, 2004, 10:09:

Never even thought of it!!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

untreated says on Dec 28, 2004, 18:40:

Go as a tourist first and get yourself a notarized job contract, then go back to home country and apply for a residence visa.

If you speak Spanish, check out: http://portal.minrelext.gov.co/portal/webdriver.exe?MIval=po_inicio.html

In English: http://www.colhouston.org/english/visas.htm

0 funny, 0 helpful.

calipro says on Dec 28, 2004, 19:43:

tzion If you are interested in teaching english in Cali I would recommend that you contact this college: Colegio Bennett, Ciudad Jardin 572-332-2353. They pay a relatively high wage and will provide an apartment for you to live in if you can secure a postition with them.

As for getting a visa I suggest that you contact: Olga Tapias Docurapid Corp, 300 Aragon Ave. Suite 390
Coral Gables, FL 33134

(486) 552-5011

She has helped hundreds of gringos get visas to live in Colombia and has good connections within the Colombian Embassy in Miami.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Hunter says on Dec 29, 2004, 06:06:

tzion I suggest you just come as a tourist with a return onward ticket, on entering the Country ask Immigration for a 90 day stamp, I would then head for Cartagena first.

After you have found a place to stay and settled in, I would look into getting a business, student or retirment visa. I suggest Cartagena first because there are a lot of foreigners living there, who have one of the above, so there are plenty of people around to ask advice from and also the local goverment is used to dealing with foreigners.
I would not bother getting any legal advice outside of Colombia, you will be waisting your money. I would bring a police certificate of good conduct with you and some up to date bank statememts (helps on apt rentals), everything else for the visa you should be able to sort out in Colombia.

Here is a link below to give you a rough idea of the visa requirements, although there are other types of visa available in Colombia. If you decide on Ctg and want me to pass a contact on to you, let me know.

http://www.colombianconsulate.co.uk/

After you have started on the visa process, you can take trips to other coastal towns and decide on where you want to live.

This is the path I took just over three years ago.

Gomezman5, you do not need a Colombian cedula to own property in Colombia, also you can open savings acounts at some banks without a cedula.

Hunter

0 funny, 0 helpful.

calipro says on Dec 29, 2004, 06:22:

Hunter "also you can open savings acounts at some banks without a cedula."

I would like to know which banks will open a savings account without a cedula. I went to DIAN when I was in Cali and got an NIT. It was my understanding that with an NIT you can legally open a savings account but every bank that I went to had a policy against a foreign that doesn't have a cedula opening an account. I went to Conavi, CITI Bank and Lloyds.

I met three americans on my last trip that were buying property in Cali and using all kinds of different methods to get money into the country because none of them could open a bank account. One guy was just depositing money into a colombianos bank account in the states to buy an apartment without any paper work or contract. I couldn't believe the stuff I was hearing and I can't wait to see what happens.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Gomezman5 says on Dec 29, 2004, 07:32:

Calipro.... Is correct. No ceduala no bank account. Period. If fact in Colombia, the cedula is more important to have in your possession than a social security card is here. It is a form of national ID. Technically all Colombian nationals are supposed to have that in their possesion at all time. In the same way Colombian tourists have to have their tourist forms that are issued to you upon addmision at all times as well.

Police can ask to see your cedula at any time and for no particular reason. So if you need it under those circumstances, you certainly need a cedula to open a bank account.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

zambo says on Dec 29, 2004, 09:20:

untreated, my man Hi pops, good to see you here. No clue that you were a regular lurker here, lol. Anyways, sorry for not replying to emails or whatnot but you know, i got your lazy gene.
Untreated is the man to answer the questions about staying in colombia. I would like to work/live in beautiful santa marta as well, but i dont know if i am ready to give up on my salary and other perks i get in US. i will graduate next may with BS in comp Science and BBA in MIS, dual citizenship (thanks to untreated's extended stay in colombia) and fluent in both languages, but earning $800US/month?? i dont know if i can live with that. I had planned on maybe going the corporate route and get sent here as an ex-pat and work for some multinational (dreams, dreams) but oh well. i guess i ventured off-topic a lil bit.

ps. say hi to moms for me untreated

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Hunter says on Dec 29, 2004, 15:41:

Gomezman5 & calipro I have a foreign friend who has savings accounts in Colombia, without a cedula, I will ask him what banks he has them with and get back to you.

I also used to think that you needed a cedula to open any bank account, until he told me the above.

Hunter

0 funny, 0 helpful.

tzion says on Dec 29, 2004, 16:10:

Thanks for all your advice... Hunter, can you actually change your terms of stay WITHIN Colombia itself? In other words, if I come in as a tourist and found a job, could I supplant my tourist visa with a business one there and then? I'm asking because there's no way I'm paying a thousand bucks (minimum) traveling back and forth just for a stupid piece of paper. I'd rather spend a year in Panama or the DR, get married and then join my wife in Colombia.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

untreated says on Dec 30, 2004, 05:35:

NO You can't change visas WITHIN Colombia. Go to Colombia as a tourist, then go back home and apply for resident visa. That's the way to do it, if you don't like it, then forget it. It's your call. Married or not, you still have to apply for residence from your home country.

Zambo, are you really graduating in May?? You are one smart cookie!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

tzion says on Dec 30, 2004, 06:05:

Untreated, why wouldn't I apply for a resident's visa in the FIRST place then??

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Gomezman5 says on Dec 30, 2004, 08:09:

Your friend is not telling all............ Remember Hunter how one manages his/her money is a very personal affair. It could be that your friend has an account in another persons name. A bank account without a cedual is impossible.
Period. Something is amiss -- not kosher -- if he has a bank account without a cedula.

Specifically you need a "cedula de extranjeria", and you will need a visa to procure a cedula. Your cedula will contain your
"numero de identificacion tributaria." It's absured to think that a country is going to allow you to open up an account with some form of verifiable government issued ID. How else could they find you in the event of fraud?

Look, all you have to do is call a bank in Colombia. Banco do Bogota' would be a good start

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Dec 30, 2004, 09:41:

that's what I was also told when trying to open a bank account in Banco de Colombia. No cedula, no bank account. I also have a nit, but my cedula is not valid any longer and I haven't bothered to get a new one. Since I'm planning to stay in Colombia for longer periods this coming year I'd very much appreciate the information about opening a bank account without a cedula de extranjería.
Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Hunter says on Dec 30, 2004, 09:54:

Gomezman5 My friend is travelling at the moment, when he answers my e-mail, I will confirm, all I can say that he said that HE had opened two savings accounts last time he was in Colombia. It is possible that he has them under somebodys else name, but that is not the jist of the conversation that I had with him.

As to the rules they don't mean a lot in any Country, I have no offical source of Colombian income, which means you can't get a loan from a bank, yet I can (and have had) get a loan from a bank here, its not the rules, but who you know.

Hunter

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Gomezman5 says on Dec 30, 2004, 10:09:

Desi Hi Desi.

As I have said here a few times before. As fun and informative as this Board may be, when it comes to complying with the law, there is a lot of bad or patently wrong info given here. Like a newspaper column or a TV talk show, this place should only be used as a general guide. It should not be used in leu of competent legal assistance or in leu of consulting a governmental authority. People here are always looking for ways to "get around" something.

My advise to you and others similarly situated would be to contact your local Colombian consulate here and follow their advise. There is no fee, and in the end you will be happy you ended up doing things the RIGHT
way.

Hey, maybe it's the lawyer (US) that cause me to think this way. But on the other hand, it's because of all the misinfo and peoples desire to do what they want, in the way they want, that us lawyers stay in business and people end up having to pay dearly for our services. I keep wondering when people will understand that it is much much cheaper to do things correctly in the first place, than it is to undo things after they, because of their own disregard for the law,did things improperly.

Bottom line:
Call the consulate, or a bank in Colombia. The rule raquiring a cedula is national and uniform. Hence, if one bank requires it, they all do. But in no case listen to someone who "figured out a way around something." That way around something could cause you to loose your money if a bank/government official discovers your failure to technically comply. And one thing I know for sure about Colombia, it goes to the top of the list in terms of being beaurocratic when you want to resolve something. Good luck.......

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Hunter says on Dec 30, 2004, 10:09:

tzion A visa for a job, is not a business visa, its differant type of visa.

The return ticket/onward ticket does not have to be used, its just so that you can enter the Country, if you don't have one, they probably won't let you board the aircraft in your home Country, just make sure that you can cash in the ticket after arriving if you don't want it, there was a thread on this a couple of weeks ago.

You will become a resident in Colombia after a certain amount of years, if you keep renewing the business visa, 5 years I think.

Any business visa you do, the first time (second time you renew in Bogota I think) you have to make it outside of Colombia, you get somebody to do the paperwork, they send it to Bogota, then you go to another Country, if you were in Ctg, you go to Panama, one day there get the visa and return.

For a student visa, I don't think you have to leave the Country.

To do al the paperwork, set the company up, flight ticket etc for a business visa is going to cost you about $1,000.

I don't know if because you marry a Colombian you get automatic residency or not, or you have to wait a certain amount of time.

Hunter

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Hunter says on Dec 30, 2004, 10:17:

Gomezman5 You must be living in a differant Colombia to me then, because as far as I can see nearly everything can be arranged and sorted out and that normally is the only way to do it here.

As to checking with the Colombian consulate, it is a waste of time unless you are going to use that consulate to do the job. Differant DAS offices ask you for differant information around the Country, best to ask the DAS office where you are going to apply.

Hence the reason I told tzion, not to waste his money on lawyers outside the Country but to wait until he got there.

Hunter

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Gator says on Dec 30, 2004, 11:53:

Just Cross the T's and Dot the I's You should obtain your visa BEFORE entering Colombia from a consulate in the United States. You can sometimes obtain a visa in Colombia but it is a bitch to do. To do this you MUST contact the Ministerio de Relaciones Exteriores, División de Visas, in Bogotá

Anyone staying in Colombia for more than six months must obtain a Colombian identification card (cedula de extranjería). You must apply for it within 30 days of your arrival in Colombia. You are "dead" without this little card. Especially banking and financial dealings.
Before you can apply for residency you will need a resident visa. If you chose to marry a Colombian national it reduces the wait time. to APPLY for residency from five years to two years. You will receive Cedula Extranjería. To apply you will need your current passport, photo copy of the visa you used to enter the country(this will be in your passport.) a photocopy of the biographical information in your passport, 3 photographs and proof of posting the residence bond which is about $110.000 CPOs.

This can often, and does, change without notice so check first. Do not risk shotcuts or try to work outside the system-a big headache could result.

Whill all of this my seem like a PITA just reverse the situation. Walk in the shoes of a Colimbian attempting to obtain a visa in the USA.

I have done it, Hunter has done it and Desi, et.al. have gone thorugh the process so it can be done-just put up with the red tape and the Colombian bureacracy and give them what they want.

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Gomezman5 says on Dec 30, 2004, 12:02:

Gator ...is ....apparently.... On tip of things. He basically sticks to my mantra, but he is much more fact specific in terms of the details. So now you have it...do things the proper way !! No shortcuts !!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Hunter says on Dec 30, 2004, 14:22:

Gomezman5 As gator states the facts change all the time, one fact is that I have helped approx 30 people get their cedulas/visa, they have all got them with zero problems, other than the normal Colombian paperwork.

One thing I always recomend is to take the short cut in Colombia, as long as you are covered and do it properly, its the only way to go, in fact it is the NORMAL way of doing things in Colombia and it is always within the Colombian system, because thats how they do it here.

Gomezman5, tzion stated at the beginning:

"I went to a Colombian embassy website and had a look at its visa regime. It seems I will only be able to stay there for four months maximum!! "

Either he read the site wrong, or it is giving inacurate information, I have been reading this site and others since 1999, one thing you quickly learn, is that differant offices give differant information regarding the same type of visas.

So its impossible to give a fact connected with a visa, because it depends on which office in which Country he goes to, hence why I only give rough information, I knew exactly what they required in Ctg a month ago for a business visa, but there is no point in posting it because it can change and he may not use the Ctg office anyway.

Hunter

0 funny, 0 helpful.

tzion says on Dec 30, 2004, 14:29:

Hunter, May I PM you?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

viewpoint says on Dec 30, 2004, 14:57:

good information - tzion Hunter, Gator & Desi as usual are providing good information for you. One other throught is that if you go the business visa route your cedula de extranjería (and business visa) will be issued and valid for one year only. Each time you obtain a new business visa you have to register again at DAS and apply for a new CE (not a new number).

I went through this three times and never got my original CE except for once (DAS claimed they never received mine from Bogota). I had to always work with the temporary CE but no big deal. In 1999 I explained to my Colombian business friends that I wanted to obtain a Colombian resident visa and utilimately citizenship and a passport. My friends were polite enough that they would just smile and politely ask why. A resident visa or residing in Colombia more than 180 days a year will draw the attention of DIAN. Not a big deal for most people but if you don't reside in Colombia over 180 days per year and can get by without the cedula you can be better off residing as a tourist. You can still purchase and own real estate but your banking, and many other business matters (utility connections) will require someone with a cedula as the principal on the account.

The normal person with long term plans needs the cedula (CE) and to get it you need some form of Colombian visa. If you end up with an expired cedula (CE) don't jump out a window as no one seems to care about it being expired only they care about the number.

Once they issue you the cedula (CE) that number is matched with your passport number permanantly on their computer system. Everytime you clear immigration coming and going you will have to produce that cedula CE expired or not expired. Immigration has never made one comment to me ever about period that the cedulas were expired.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Lionheart says on Dec 30, 2004, 15:12:

viewpoint: DIAN? "A resident visa or residing in Colombia more than 180 days a year will draw the attention of DIAN. "

Can you explain this more? Is that for taxes?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Gomezman5 says on Dec 30, 2004, 15:28:

Hunter & Gator....it's your call
You guys obviously have more experience than me on this matter. I am an American attorney and I do NOT do immigration law. I have little knowledge about what the easiest route is to procure some form of estended residency in colombia. I go there frequently for 2- 3 weeks a few times a year, so a visa is not an issue for me inasmuch Americans do NOT need a visa to travel there--as opposed to an extendes stay. Americans are allowed at least 30 days and I believe longer.

I do know however, that it while it is not imossible to get accurate info from a lay person, I certainly would not advise doing so without knowing who that lay person is and what they do that enables them to hold themselves out as having knowledge in any given area of the law..
This rule is especially true for those getting advise on the internet.
Make sense ??

It appears however, based on what your saying, you two, as well as Desi appear to have special knowledge. I'll take your word for it.
May I also add that I have never had any experience in working with the Colombian consultes, therefore when you tell me that they give conflicting info, I will have to believe you. I will say that I have had enough experience in Colombia to know that they can be very disorganized and arbitrary in how they function. Therefore, I am not suprised by what you tell me in regards to how the consulates function.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

viewpoint says on Dec 30, 2004, 15:39:

Lionheart It's my understanding that there is a days count much the same as the USA has that triggers a tax filing responsibility for a non resident foreign alien in Colombia. In the USA the days count I think is 120 days for a non resident foreign alien and I understand that it's 180 days in Colombia. One little known fact is that Colombia (like the USA) taxes global income or I should say that the law is on the books but not enforced.

Separately, as Hunter has explained in prior posts there is an asset count which triggers taxation (wealth tax) which I think is about CP$80.000.000 for Colombian citizens and resident aliens.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Hunter says on Dec 30, 2004, 15:43:

DIAN is for taxes, they also give the NIT number for a business.

One thing to note a new tax law was introduced about a year ago.

Anybody with non liquid assets over 80 million pesos has to register them by April of the following year, stating the assets you owned the previouse year and what income if any they produced, that also affects foreigners, wether they are in the Country for short periods or time or not, the asset includes your private residence.

You can use an accountant to register the assets with DIAN, at the moment they are not chasing people about this law, but who knows about later.

With a business visa you have to get a new visa each year as viewpoint and I have pointed out. There are about 60 differant types of visa, I have a investment visa, which is good for 3 years, your ID card is linked to the time of the visa.
The funny thing is the Investment visa was easier to get than my first business visa and cheaper.

tzion, feel free to PM me.

Hunter

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Hunter says on Dec 30, 2004, 15:54:

Gomezman5 I agree with your comments that everything you read here and other places, should only be a guide, nothing else.

Even if you have all the up to date info, you can be in the middle of doing the visa paperwork, then they want something else, a new requirement, its a pain in the ass, if you let it be.

One good thing though, is because the labour is cheap here and there is always people who want to earm money, I try and take most of the pain out of doing things by using a local who knows what the offical wants in that specific field. Leave it to him to do the running around, but always keep half a eye on what they are doing with the odd prod here and there to keep them moving.

Hunter

0 funny, 0 helpful.

viewpoint says on Dec 30, 2004, 15:55:

Gomezman5 Yes, it's true that you can get different answers to the same question at consulates and notarias not just at different offices but within the same office from different people trying to assist you. Mix the language and translation between spanish and english and I guarantee you that all the answers would come back incorrect.

It reminds me of trying to get an answer about a simple question from an attorney in the USA (or anywhere). You can be sure that you will receive a big bill but never the answer to your question.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Lionheart says on Dec 30, 2004, 16:05:

personalized goal From all the official information I have been trying to get I have never received the same definitive answer twice. To me is seems to be a very personalized deal to get what you want. Therefore I am planning to go to Colombia as tourist and invest my time from the beginning for the max 6 months to get all paperwork, visas, whatever lined up to be able to stay in Colombia. The key seems to be to find a string of people agreeing on what you need, then stick to them to get the approval. Plus several in Colombia keep telling me, all is possible, just know how to get it. And I doubt I can achieve this over the internet.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

viewpoint says on Dec 30, 2004, 16:41:

Lionheart In 1999 when I first came to Medellin I found a lot of helpful people to assist me with things like getting my Colombian drivers license, opening bank accounts, health insurance, business visa, cedula and business license. Many times I got discourged over the simplest things that were so difficult for me because I didn't speak spanish fluently. Many times I was tempted to leave because the door was closed for some reason I couldn't understand. Thanks to my girlfriend, her brother, professional friends, and business friends that were all mostly or partly bilingual the doors kept opening and everything got done.

It's hard to get excited about fighting the language barrier day after day, month after month and year after year. That's why I can appreciate what foreign people are able to accomplish in their pursuit to immigrate to the USA or other foreign countries with different languages and customs.

They are solving the same problems day after day working with other Colombians or spanish speaking aliens sharing advice and experiences much the same as we do on this forum.

Hunter as a full time resident has gone through the same experiences but solved most of them on a personal basis where I got a lot of handholding along the way in my part time pursuit of residency.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Gator says on Dec 30, 2004, 16:41:

I Am Not.. an atorney and will state that my private attorney from Medellin took care of my paperwork and it was done some time ago. If you feel uncomfortable seeking advice from the internet my suggestion would be to retain an attorny in the USA to get you started. While I cannot recommend anyone in particular there are numerous lawyers in New York City and Miami who are licensed (passed the bar) in both Colombia and the United States. I, and others who have taken time to reply, can only speak to THEIR personal situation(s). Most of what was offered was only presented to, perhaps, shine a little light on the matter. Perhaps you would be better off just coming to Colombia and hoping things work out.

Good luck,

Gator

P.S.
Lionheart, please make sure to obtain ALL of the required paperwork and bring it with you when you come. Some may go "stale" date wise and will have to be renewed-sometimes those apostilles can be a bitch.

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Hunter says on Dec 30, 2004, 17:04:

Lionheart Bring what you think is required with you to Colombia, I left all my other personnel paperwork with my accountant in the UK, a good friend, so if or when I needed something he can then copy it or send it by fedex.

He never had to send me anything, but it was there as a back up, hopefully you can do the same with a family member or friend.

Hunter

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Gomezman5 says on Dec 30, 2004, 17:08:

You people deserve some credit for..... this nonsense. It sounds like things are so arbitrary over there.
The info varies with the offices, the people the consulates and ....
Does the day of the week make a difference too...It sounds almost comical!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Lionheart says on Dec 30, 2004, 17:12:

stale dates that is one of my main worries, because I intend to enter Colombia with my Europass. My parents in Germany normally stay in good contact and refresh any papers when needed. My greatest concern is the police record then, because I have been criss-crossing the States for 10 years now. Will I still get a valid German police-record?

Gator - I agree, I think it is safest to try to get all worked out in Colombia. With all the little options popping up here and there, I think I will get best results in Colombia.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

viewpoint says on Dec 30, 2004, 17:19:

Lionheart Most of what you will need is common sense and street smarts. If you seek an attorney in Colombia make sure that they are recommended by a close and trusted friend. Even then watch you ass as more than likely you are the planned dessert for the last supper.

On my first real estate transaction there I retained an attorney (related to a friend) who immediately made a deal with his good friend real estate salesman to split a big 6% real estate commission on a transaction that the salesman didn't even produce. Before it was over I had to pay some dollars to get them pushed aside so that my life was out of danger.

Now I know many more attorneys on a personal basis and can keep out of trouble. Yes, there are attorneys in NYC that work on Colombian litigation and there billing rates are $325 to $575 an hour. Get on the airplane to Colombia and you will find your way. Just pack your suitcase full of patience and have lots of time. What took you an hour to do in the USA will take you days or weeks to do in Colombia.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Lionheart says on Dec 30, 2004, 17:38:

viewpoint "more than likely you are the planned dessert for the last supper"

same as in the USA or anywhere else .... at least a lawyer in Colombia won't cost $325 to $575 an hour.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Gomezman5 says on Dec 30, 2004, 22:07:

This sounds......difficult to believe I'm a lawyer here in the US, big city too----those fees sound a little high. The best corporate litigaion firms that I know do not charge 575 an hour. Remember, if the matter is not a state matter, a lawyer licensed in any state can represent a client in that matter. For example, a lawyer with a Montana law license can do immigration in New York, or in any other state in the country. So you don't need to retain a highly paid New York lawyer

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Lionheart says on Dec 30, 2004, 22:17:

not my numbers but just as a figurative number ... I assume a lawyer in Colombia would be much cheaper, plus I would assume the lawyer there has more rabbits in his hat than a lawyer in the USA concerning a move to Colombia.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Gomezman5 says on Dec 30, 2004, 22:21:

I agree again In other words, I have learned in Col., a lot of times it's not as much as what you know, as it is who you know

0 funny, 0 helpful.

gabriel says on Dec 30, 2004, 22:49:

What about opening an account in Panama thats has branches in colombia, I know for fact that alot of well off colombians bank in Panama. Does anybody know how hard is it to open an account in Panama, what type of documents or references do you need, I myself would rather keep my money in U.S. dollars rather than colombian pesos.

Yerba mala nunca muere....

Yerba mala nunca muere....

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Hunter says on Dec 31, 2004, 03:24:

Savings account My friend has just got back to me and he opened the accounts with
Megabanco and Bancopopular, the accounts will not allow you to wire money in from overseas though. I would not be surprised that if you go to one of these banks another day or in another City, they won't open the account. If you want to know which town he opened the accounts in PM me.

Here is part of his e-mail:

"You might want to mention that it was a massive pain in the ass to open these accounts and that I visited literally every bank in ..... last summer. Most would not open one to a foreigner w/o a cedula. These 2 would for some reason- but even then they seemed confused and i doubt many foreigners even try. Both accounts are still active, just in case i need them in the future..."

Lionheart, as viewpoint says, streetsmart is everything, I didn't have a police cert, one of the requirements, the UK doesn't have a national police force, so any police certs will only be for your local area, so I never brought one with me, also I only went to Colombia for 6 months, I wasn't sure if I was going to stay longer, so didn't look into things before hand.
I got away with this by getting a letter from British Embassy, explaining that there was no national police force and as far as they were aware that I was of good conduct etc etc.

Hunter

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Dec 31, 2004, 05:25:

getting the cedula de extranjería can be a time-consuming process. When I got mine it might have been easier and simpler, but that was a long time ago, and I'm sure they've changed the rules many times after that. Thus, my experience has not so much infiormative value and is merely anecdotal in essence.
I went to Colombia as a tourist, applied for an extension and then just overstayed my extension. I had started to work as an English teacher at the Colombo and another institute at the same time, and the contract from Colombo made it possible for me to apply for the resident status at that time. I was already dating my husband-to-be at that time. I made a total of four visa runs to Tulcán, Ecuador, and somehow something was always wrong. On the fourth time I made sure that the authorization had been sent there from Bogotá, but when I got there I was told that they've run out of stamps. The consul was a woman known for her dislike for gringos and making things as hairy as possible for them to get their visas.

Anyway, to make the long story short, she looked at my passport and noticed that I was a Finnish citizen. She told me to sit down and wait. (This was after she had told me that they didn't have any stamps left for "visa ordinaria"). I guess she felt sorry for me or something, but she issued me a "visa oficial" which was also free of charge.

I got married a little after that and went to the Policia Nacional Headquarters to change my status and we were interviewed by the Chief of DAS. (He had, btw, offered to fix my problem himself if I agreed to go out with him). So, I took my husband with me on that visit. He looked at us, at my passport with the visa official, my marriage certificate and muttered something like...."dammit the things they do in Tulcán...", issued my cedula de residencia and that was the end of it.

I know this sounds quite Kafkan or maybe even a little Macondian, but it's the true story.

Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

viewpoint says on Dec 31, 2004, 05:56:

Gomezman5 Gomezman,

I am not sure what "big" city you are practicing in but it is not NYC. As an example call Bingham McCutchen, LLP in their NYC office and ask them their billing rates http://www.bingham.com

I don't profess to know very much but I know the billing rates of the major NYC lawfirms practicing corporate law in the USA and through their Colombian counterparts. You couldn't even get them to answer in inquiry about the time of day without at least two people working on it and charging $1,000 but never being able to answer the question. I work with these firms and they are bloodsuckers of the worst. I review a average of $500,000 a year of legal bills and work with these people. I know the billing rates and the games they play with other peoples money.

Lionheart, take your chances in Colombia as you could hardly do worse. Follow Hunters suggestions as he has walked the same path. Obtaining the VISA is not all that difficult as even I speaking no spanish was able to do it not once but three times without the assistance of an attorney. Having good contacts within the central government is certainly a help. I obtained all three of my business visas through the Colombian consulate in Panama City. The first two were a breeze as the consulate knew the people from the company that sponsored my application. I went early in the morning for the interview and picked up my passport with the VISA in the afternoon. By the time of the third visa the consulate had been replaced by a new pers0n (change of administration) with very little experience (new to the job) and that approval took three trips.

Sure, you can find an attorney in Montana and the billing rates might be $125 to $200 hour that could have a little immigration experience but I would be concerned about his or her ability. Montana is sure not known as the home of the best legal talent in the USA. I never suggested going to a NYC attorney as that would be my last choice for any legal work.

I would wing it myself as Hunter talks about and has done. There are a lot of qualified immigration attorneys in southern Florida available at more reasonable billing rates. But most of these lawyers work mostly with USA immigration law.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Lionheart says on Dec 31, 2004, 20:59:

Hunter/viewpoint thanks for confirming my assumptions

I agree, connections are everything, especially within the DAS. I have about 6 months now for fine-tuning ideas, then I'll see what works best, plan A, B, or C, heck, I got the whole alphabet. Not the first time I outsmarted papertigers. Best beat them with their own weapons.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

umm says on Jan 11, 2005, 00:44:

looking for immigration detai Four month???? that sounds already great, it used to be three month but you can extend the visa three times for one month which costs about 42.000 pesos. As tourist the maximum you can stay are 6 month per year.

looking for immigration details for Colombia?
It seems its one day so and the next day different.

You have to get a workpermit. So, you need a job there which pays you 320.000 pesos
You can also marry there and get a residents visa
or you invest, some years ago you had to invest 200.000US$
according to following website its now only 50.000US$
http://www.immigration-world.com/immigration/info-colombia-eng.shtml

Still be prepared for some hefty paperwork. Colombia is very bureaucratic.
That paperwork goes away easily if you marry.

UMM

My Forum

lpdiver says on Jan 11, 2005, 01:38:

Transacting in Colombia I against all advice arranged my own marriage in Colombia. I found it very straight forward and fairly easy to accomplish. My spoken Spanish is very poor (but improving rapidly). The notaria was very aggravated that I insisted on reading the multipage document carefully word for word. Then further aggravated when I pointed out several errors.

Amongst other errors she had the wrong wedding date and did not intend on showing up on the correct date. There was some very heated and rapidly spoken words between her and my now wife.

She retailiated at the wedding because my espousa was 45 minutes late and we got some sort of lecture on the wedding tape about respecting governmet officails ot something.

Cashing travelers checks (American Express) was a great ordeal and I
am sure I could not have done so alone.

For all of my legal dealings in Colombia I had copies of the law with me as well as my wife. Sometimes we lost but when confronted with the regulations in writing we usually got our way.

"cook some rice!"

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Patricio Puentes says on Oct 31, 2005, 12:41:

Hunter, There are always ways to skirt laws. I'll take notes of all this great information that I se on this site and use it when I go to Pereira.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Hunter says on Oct 31, 2005, 12:55:

Patricio Puentes Laws/Rules can be interprated differantly by differant people in Colombia or anywhere really.

Hunter

0 funny, 0 helpful.

BAQ says on Oct 31, 2005, 13:10:

Two or Three years ? ? ? Gator, is the time in country requirement for "Residency" TWO or THREE years ? ? ?

I was under the impression it was three (or used to be). PLEASE tell me it is TWO YEARS, jajajaja

Semper Fidelis !

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Hunter says on Oct 31, 2005, 14:50:

BAQ Its two or three if you are married to a Colombian.

Last time Gator wasn't sure, hopefully he has more info now.

Hunter

0 funny, 0 helpful.

vicshere says on Oct 31, 2005, 15:22:

2 years if you are married to a Colombian and have resided here those 2 years .....I am just starting the process now I thought it was 3 years but stand corrected 2 years ...I let you know how the exam goes that's my biggest hurdle as reading Spanish is a bit tough for me


listo
"con mucho gusto"
Vic

listo

0 funny, 0 helpful.

creamontop says on Apr 30, 2006, 14:29:

It looks quiet easy to apply for a visa in a Colombian consulate (I'm not talking about costs of anything) Just... it is not very clear if it is "necessary" (as stated on the form) to HAVE an address beforehand in Colombia where you will reside. Usually when you would go to Colombia to find a job or to remain permanently you start off at a hotel or something similar. Does anybody thinks it would be appropriate to fill in a hotel address in this form ?

http://www.emcolbru.org/img/SolicitudVisa1.jpg

http://www.emcolbru.org/img/SolicitudVisa2.jpg

yo me puse tengo un guayabo ahora, yo seguro hace cuando estoy en Colombia

0 funny, 0 helpful.

lawyerincolombia says on Jul 14, 2006, 09:08:

Lawyer in Cali Colombia I am a certified lawyer in Colombia. My name is Carlos Arturo Dorado and I can help to you about inmigration and legal problems in Colombia.
I am located in Cali Colombia.

Best regards:
Carlos Dorado
http://nicelatinladies.com/abogado.html

0 funny, 0 helpful.