I'm So Disgusted

romy says on Aug 8, 2008, 02:10:

The question is can I remain a Madridista??? I guess I can't expect much else from a team that is sponsored by the crown... and its administration is referred to as the 'White House' because of the amount of corruption that goes down.

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pobrecito says on Aug 8, 2008, 02:59:

It looks like a prisoner's suit (identification number 1).

De que vale la vida si cuando la tenemos parece muerta. La vida es para sentirla, para vibrar, para luchar, para combatir. Eso justifica nuestro paso por la tierra........Jaime Pardo Leal

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dtapia says on Aug 8, 2008, 04:05:

Sure, do us all a favor and become a madridista and never consider yourself a Columbian ever again.

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pobrecito says on Aug 8, 2008, 04:25:

Colombian = furibist ???

De que vale la vida si cuando la tenemos parece muerta. La vida es para sentirla, para vibrar, para luchar, para combatir. Eso justifica nuestro paso por la tierra........Jaime Pardo Leal

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romy says on Aug 8, 2008, 07:18:

I've been a Madridista for a long time... And Colombian through my parents' birthright

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tasco66 says on Aug 8, 2008, 07:23:

Romy, your post and comments pretty much confirms my description of your ideology

Not being bound to swear to the dogmas of any master

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romy says on Aug 8, 2008, 07:25:

no

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turnmeon (☼Travelguide writer) says on Aug 8, 2008, 08:09:

turnmeon (☼Travelguide writer) says on Aug 8, 2008, 08:14:

august says on Aug 8, 2008, 08:21:

"talk crop about our president or country"

This is the internet man, I´ll talk alfalfa, maiz, lechuga - maybe even banano - any day, all day! Talkin´crop! Makes you want to chew on a piece of hay or something.

In other news, one day Colombians like Turnmeon will learn that in a democracy, it´s OK to be critical of your government. That´s, in fact, the healthiest thing in a democracy. I´m no expert on Colombian history, but I do believe Colombia - like most former colonies in the Americas - was founded on challenging and questioning its governing structures (España in Colombia´s case). So, let´s try to relax and put things in perspective my expression-stiffling friends, Turnmeon and Tasco. According to history, to challenge the governing structures (Uribe included) is actually more Colombian than telling someone to shut up or accusing them of being a FARC sympathizer.

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pobrecito says on Aug 8, 2008, 08:38:

"romy you are not colombian, you werent born in colombia, so stop interfering with MY COUNTRY'S problems, it is none of your foreign born azz bussinesses, go talk about your country and leave us colombians alone"

If you were alone, without the US army, the US intelligence, the US planes, the US satellites, the US dollars, would Uribe exist ?

De que vale la vida si cuando la tenemos parece muerta. La vida es para sentirla, para vibrar, para luchar, para combatir. Eso justifica nuestro paso por la tierra........Jaime Pardo Leal

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tasco66 says on Aug 8, 2008, 08:46:

Yep, he sure would

The US army did not elect Uribe twice, the Colombian people did

I know that’s hard for you to admit, but the truth hurts sometimes

Not being bound to swear to the dogmas of any master

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romy says on Aug 8, 2008, 08:49:

I guess I'll throw my Colombian passport in the garbage as it has been 'officially' disapproved...

btw, Who paid Yidis (and others) so Uribe could be re-elected?

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tasco66 says on Aug 8, 2008, 08:52:

Fact: Uribe was re-elected with over 62% of votes

The rest is just leftie talk, "yes BUT bla, bla, bla…"

Not being bound to swear to the dogmas of any master

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august says on Aug 8, 2008, 08:53:

Tasco, you must be insane to think that Uribe´s popularity has nothing to do with the massive infusion of US dollars into Colombia´s military budget which allowed Uribe to so successfully take on the FARC and win the support of so many Colombians. In 2002, US support made up 11% of the Colombian military budget. Does that not strike you as notable?

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turnmeon (☼Travelguide writer) says on Aug 8, 2008, 08:53:

turnmeon (☼Travelguide writer) says on Aug 8, 2008, 08:57:

tasco66 says on Aug 8, 2008, 08:58:

august, you are wrong again

"the massive infusion of US dollars into Colombia´s military budget" or Plan Colombia as it is called, started before Uribe was elected President...

Not being bound to swear to the dogmas of any master

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turnmeon (☼Travelguide writer) says on Aug 8, 2008, 09:04:

romy says on Aug 8, 2008, 09:06:

"i didnt know the colombian goverment is giving passports to argentinians..."

They kind of do that when your parents are Colombian and you happen to have been born abroad... actually I think most countries are like that. A certain CANADIAN hockey player happened to be born in Brazil, he still plays for the Canadian hockey team. Or a certain ENGLISH football player that happened to be born in Canada still caps for England. I think it's fair.

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romy says on Aug 8, 2008, 09:07:

"yet Pastrana was hated by every colombian."
somebody must have liked him if he was elected... aren't most of you guys conservatives anyways?

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dwmte7 says on Aug 8, 2008, 09:12:

as much as i agree with the issue of undisciplined crying babies. a democracy has to be able to withstand free speech or it's not a democracy.

dwmte

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august says on Aug 8, 2008, 09:14:

Alright turnmeon, I can see where you´re coming from. But I still think in a democracy, as a principle, it´s important to allow freedom of speech, including criticism, in any form. I don´t like the KKK rallies in the US myself, but they are part of this "freedom of speech" thing, and we have to be careful where we draw the line there.

As far as one´s right to infer in Colombian politics, I can´t speak for romy, but knowing that I am working to pay taxes that contribute to the more than 750 million dollars the US sent to Colombia in 2008 alone, more than 600 million of which was directed to the military and police, I feel like that does in fact make me a stakeholder in Colombia's future and one with a right to criticize its governance if necessary.

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turnmeon (☼Travelguide writer) says on Aug 8, 2008, 09:33:

turnmeon (☼Travelguide writer) says on Aug 8, 2008, 09:35:

romy says on Aug 8, 2008, 09:39:

so why was he elected? if most Colombians are conservative??? I was too young to vote back then...
So decades of FARC being around and you found your scapegoat? How many years does Uribe need to end FARC?

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august says on Aug 8, 2008, 09:45:

Tasco,

"august, you are wrong again

"the massive infusion of US dollars into Colombia´s military budget" or Plan Colombia as it is called, started before Uribe was elected President..."

Right, it started in 2000 and continues on to this day. I´m familiar. You blatently ignored my statement that:

In 2002, US support made up 11% of the Colombian military budget.

So you´re suggesting that by 2002, the effects of that infusion of billions of dollars (even at 11% of the total Colombian military budget) had no effect whatsoever on Uribe´s ability to take on the FARC? Whoa. Sort of makes you wonder why Uribe fights so hard to keep the money coming from Washington, but I guess folks in the US should just go ahead and hold onto that money for ourselves instead? We certainly have enough problems in the US that we don´t need to be sending Colombia that gift if it really isn´t doing any good.

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poco says on Aug 8, 2008, 09:49:

Quote: btw if you research to what pastrana offered to the voters if he would become the president(1998-2002), you can perfectly see he was from the left side of the road
============
Nothing wrong with being on the left side of the road. The problem is when you get onto the sholder,, move into the ditch, run through the fence and kill some poor innocent cow.

From an unreliable source.

His presidency is remembered first for his negotiations with the two left-wing guerrilla groups FARC and ELN, culminating in the grant of a demilitarized safe haven to the guerrillas the size of Switzerland, and second for his breaking off said negotiations which resulted in Ingrid Betancourts kidnapping.

Damn that Pastrana !!!!!

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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tasco66 says on Aug 8, 2008, 09:51:

After Pastrana Colombians were desperate for a leader like Uribe…

Not being bound to swear to the dogmas of any master

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august says on Aug 8, 2008, 09:57:

tasco, please respond to my most recent question.

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pobrecito says on Aug 8, 2008, 10:11:

August, if you expect that tasco answers your questions ...

De que vale la vida si cuando la tenemos parece muerta. La vida es para sentirla, para vibrar, para luchar, para combatir. Eso justifica nuestro paso por la tierra........Jaime Pardo Leal

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tasco66 says on Aug 8, 2008, 10:12:

Uribe has used wisely US aid, contrary to many countries that waste the aid they receive (just look at Africa)...

But as I said before, Plan Colombia was put in place before Uribe, so you can not say that it helped him get elected

Not being bound to swear to the dogmas of any master

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august says on Aug 8, 2008, 10:18:

tasco, I was responding to your statement:

"Fact: Uribe was re-elected with over 62% of votes"

I´ll accept that Plan Colombia might not have had anything to do with his 2002 election, but Uribe could never had realized his success in challenging the FARC and, thus his RE-ELECTION, without the financial support, especially for the military, from the US.

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Joel y Luza says on Aug 8, 2008, 10:57:

Yes, it is safe to say that a fair more Colombians would be speaking "FARCinese" without Plan Colombia...Regarding Uribe..A man that knows how to play the political game, to win hearts and minds

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tasco66 says on Aug 8, 2008, 11:25:

Uribe may not have had as much success against the Farc, but he would have been re-elected anyway

Colombians like his leadership

Not being bound to swear to the dogmas of any master

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august says on Aug 8, 2008, 11:28:

tasco, you´re useless.

I think we should end Plan Colombia just to see what would happen to Uribe´s popularity. Are you in?

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tasco66 says on Aug 8, 2008, 11:32:

August if you can not accept that people may have a different opinion than yours, what are you doing on this message board?

Not being bound to swear to the dogmas of any master

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august says on Aug 8, 2008, 11:38:

I´m here for discussion, not political posturing. I don´t like Uribe´s style, but I can admit that there has been progress against the FARC while Uribe has been president. You, however, seem unable to offer us anything more complicated than "Uribe is great and popular" and anyone who disagrees with you is a FARC sympathizer. I guess that´s just not very interesting to me.

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Cerealkiller says on Aug 8, 2008, 11:55:

Good thing I happen to hate football. As for countries wasting aid money...Last time I checked Africa was a not a country. But I guess in Tascoland anything is possible.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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tasco66 says on Aug 8, 2008, 11:58:

CK, look on the map where it says Africa, and you will see it is made up of many countries...

Not being bound to swear to the dogmas of any master

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webmanco says on Aug 8, 2008, 12:00:

Where in earth is Tascoland? Is it there where there are women with the "Comeme look"



All I know is that in Guinea Ecuatorial they do speak spanish

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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dogfart says on Aug 8, 2008, 12:01:

You are right Romy,




He should have been given jersey #10 !!

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Cerealkiller says on Aug 8, 2008, 12:07:

WOW Tasco you managed to figure that one out on your own? Im impressed.
I just wonder if Africa (as a whole homogenous mass of land as you made it sound) is really as miserable and mismanaged as you made it sound? As far as I know african countries such as Mozambique, Sierra Leone and Ghana, which have been far more impoverished than Colombia are now thriving (which by no means can be interpreted as "are now developed") and new industries are being created (as opposed to Colombia, where all industries are just being sold to foreign investors and there is no real growth in employment)... must be all that wasted money.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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tasco66 says on Aug 8, 2008, 12:15:

This is what Tascoland looks like:

Not being bound to swear to the dogmas of any master

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tasco66 says on Aug 8, 2008, 12:21:

Chill out CK, it’s Friday afternoon….

We’ll talk about Africa another day

Not being bound to swear to the dogmas of any master

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turnmeon (☼Travelguide writer) says on Aug 8, 2008, 12:25:

august says on Aug 8, 2008, 12:25:

tasco, seriously, you´ve got to fill us in with a little bio info. Where do these opinions come from? Where do you come from?

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dwmte7 says on Aug 8, 2008, 12:43:

precious LORD....what are you guys doin tonight? no leftie/rightie remark. just what are ya eatin, where are you goin, what are you gonna do. now that sounds interesting.

the only left and right i have, are the buggers out of my nose. some are lefties and some are righties....but, and i know it'll come as a surprise, they don't argue nor disagree.

peace. wish i could join you all (you, too, CK) for a drink and an evening out. that would be a lot more fun than this. (know what you mean, turnmeon).

dwmte

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tasco66 says on Aug 8, 2008, 12:48:

august,

Didn’t you say I was not interesting 10 minutes ago?

I hold several passports, but to me they are nothing more than travelling documents.

Lived in several countries, travelled the world and fell in love Latin America and in particular Colombia...

Not being bound to swear to the dogmas of any master

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Cerealkiller says on Aug 8, 2008, 12:48:

Im just bitter tonight douglas. I am sick and will stay in :( You can have a drink for me though.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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tasco66 says on Aug 8, 2008, 12:49:

agree with dwmte7

Let’s have an Olympic truce

Not being bound to swear to the dogmas of any master

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tasco66 says on Aug 8, 2008, 12:58:

Now for a bit of fun:

Un ventrílocuo está haciendo una gira por clubes, y para en una pequeña ciudad para una representación.

Empieza su show con su muñeco a quien lo hace hablar contando chistes sobre las rubias:

De repente una mujer joven, muy bonita y rubia se levanta indignada:

-Estoy harta de sus chistes estúpidos sobre las rubias, ¡Pelotudo!

¿Qué le permite hacer un estereotipo de esta manera sobre las mujeres?

¿Qué relación puede tener el color del pelo de una persona con su personalidad y su alma?

¡Por culpa de gente como usted, hay mujeres como yo, que no son respetadas en la vida en general y en el trabajo! Por su clpa y sus prejuicios la gente sigue propagando esta leyenda. Es usted un retrasado patético y lo que hace no es solamente contrario a la ley sobre la discriminación del país, sino también muy ofensivo para toda persona sensible. ¡Le tendría que dar mucha vergüenza!

El ventrílocuo, muy avergonzado, empieza a tartamudear una disculpa cuando la rubia lo interrumpe:

-¡Usted no se meta! ¡Hablo con el enano de mierda que está sentado en su rodillas!

Not being bound to swear to the dogmas of any master

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Lcacique says on Aug 8, 2008, 13:04:

To everyone, if you think that Us assistance began with Plan Colombia you are either ignorant, misinformed or in denial.

Some quick examples:

Between 1913 and 1929, the US increased investment in Colombia from $4 million to $200 million. This period is known as the dance of the millions in Colombia. Oh the days when the banana workers used to burn dollars while dancing the cumbia....Companies like UFCO owned many politicians who were on their payroll. After the famous banana strike (not the only strike that was met with military violence), President Olaya Herrera was forced to wait until UFCO's management declared its approval of his candidate for Minister of Industries before he could appoint him to the position.

The US sent aid during La Violencia...and shortly after it built Latin America's first counter-insurgency school in Colombia. It also recruited Colombian soldiers to be trained in Panama at the SOA. Check out the training manuals from this period...they are very interesting. In the 1950s an 60s, the US continued to increase its military aid to Colombia.

The US developed Plan Lazo, and donated helicopters and intelligence for the attack on Marquetalia in 1964.

In the 70s, the US broadened its role in Colombia to include counter-narcotics instead of solely focusing on counter-insurgency. Because of the Marijuana trade, Washington pressured Colombia into developing new anti-drug policies. The US Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) was commissioned to lead narcotics related investigations in Colombia where it worked in concert with the Departamento Administrativo de Seguridad (DAS), Colombia’s intelligence agency, as well as with its law enforcement and military; however, the military was eventually sidelined after government officials in both countries expressed credible fears about soldiers being corrupted by such endeavors.

By 1980, a new Colombian anti-drug unit was created that would be trained and supervised by the US. Amongst other things, the US assisted Colombia with the purchase of “helicopters, boats, radar equipment� and other supplies to fight the drug war. Reagan more than tripled counter-narcotics funding in foreign countries.

Immediately after Galan's death, the US sent $65 million worth of military aid. Of course, this was added to the millions of dollars that the US was already giving Colombia.

The US utilized Samper’s scandal to pressure the president into allowing the US to become even more involved in the country. To combat the rise in coca cultivation, the DEA and the CIA trained yet another special police force and Colombia embarked on a more aggressive eradication campaign. The US also pressured Samper to reinstate extradition.

Pastrana's original Plan Colombia was quite different than the one that eventually went into effect:
"Most of the Program that we want to invest in the Plan Colombia wants to go really into implement policies on health, on structural reforms, strengthening our institutions, human rights and alternative development and social investment. We want to get into the real essence of the problem: that is, bringing back to Colombia prosperity and health and richness to our people, and that’s the way of eradicating drugs from our soil and from our territory." ~ Pastrana

It became a military aid package when the US got a hold of it.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uribe's success as a President absolutely is rooted in the fact that he has received way more US assistance than any of the Presidents that came before him. He also has benefited from the fact that he only has one main threat (FARC) instead of several. I am not arguing that US involvement and/or assistance has always been beneficial, but clearly Uribe and Colombia would not be having the success that they are enjoying with respect to fighting crime and terrorism without the US aid.

That doesn't mean that Uribe is without positive characteristics...he has simply been lucky to come to power at the time that he did.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

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turnmeon (☼Travelguide writer) says on Aug 8, 2008, 13:24:

dwmte7 says on Aug 8, 2008, 17:12:

fuck it, i'm goin for the nose.....where those righties and lefties get along.

CK...just call my name and i'll be there................i'll have a drink for anybody....mom's a bit tiffed at me tonight. why? who knows. because i'm me. but that's alright, she gets in that mood everyday or so for the last 20 years. like soloman said...'their aint nothin new under the sun.......................

the rest of you blokes, the olympic peace is the best thing i've heard in weeks. anybody can go for that.

dwmte

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Aug 8, 2008, 17:15:

I want that t-shirt.....

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dwmte7 says on Aug 8, 2008, 17:18:

i want your t shirt Kat....off. i think that would be an improvement here on pbh and would definitly raise the group morale. now dont' get mad at me, dear, it's purely aesthetic appreciation, nothing more. just ask morphus.

dwmte

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Aug 8, 2008, 17:20:

Dear dwmte you and me need to talk..........:)))))

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webmanco says on Aug 8, 2008, 17:20:

Yeah take it off

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Aug 8, 2008, 17:21:

you first webmanco.... jejejej

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poco says on Aug 8, 2008, 17:21:

Quote: Uribe's success as a President absolutely is rooted in the fact that he has received way more US assistance than any of the Presidents that came before him
-------------
Nice history lesson,, did you have the 40’s / 50’s photos of the U.S. military ships (was it destroyers?) sitting in the,, what? Bogota River,, naw,, too high,, anyway,, it was Colombia.

The quoted statement,, kind of true,, picky,, but Pastrana,, DID NOTHING MUCH on the offense with the funding. Uribe changed that, he went on the offense. at least that's the way I remember.

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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webmanco says on Aug 8, 2008, 17:22:

I will if you do it.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Aug 8, 2008, 17:22:

hola poco :)))

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poco says on Aug 8, 2008, 19:28:

Quote: hola poco :)))
----------------------------------
Hummm,, made me look at your picture,, I recognize the door frame but the face,, something seems changed ?

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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dwmte7 says on Aug 8, 2008, 19:55:

what's got you so serious in that photo?

dwmte

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billyb says on Aug 8, 2008, 23:55:

Cerealkiller says on Aug 8 (today): flag

"Im just bitter tonight douglas. I am sick and will stay in :( You can have a drink for me though."

Don't worry CK, I have taken care of that for you. BTW, a wee dram of the whiskey will cure you.

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manINred says on Aug 9, 2008, 00:01:

Madrid are a disgrace of a club, very much a fact.

Yet this image is about the only good thing about Madrid these days. Too bad Uribe couldn't join Man U.

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billyb says on Aug 9, 2008, 00:08:

To his credit, Pastrana did start the professionalisation and modernisation of the colombian armed forces thanks to US help, but it was too late for him to recover from the disaster of El Caguan. US aid has helped tremnedously, but without a president like uribe to force the armed forces to be accountable, it would all have been a waste. All this aid could have been available to any other theoretical president, but I think it would have gone to waste. Also the most important aspect was when the US let Colombia change the focus of the aid from "drug enforcement" to the main problem, which was fighting the FARC, and as a by-product it also addressed the drug problem. But I don't think the drug trade is going to go away if the FARC disintigrates, or if the paras actually disband for real, because as long as there is millions (billions) of dollars at stake, people in colombia will take a chance on the "good life' provided by the drug trade, even if that good life currently only averages 2 years before you are captured, killed, or turn your self in for a reduced sentense.

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Lcacique says on Aug 9, 2008, 03:08:

Nope...I don't have any pictures of ships, poco; however, here are a few tanks that the US donated:

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

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dwmte7 says on Aug 9, 2008, 06:45:

are those M-60'S A-1A abrams?

dwmte

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romy says on Aug 9, 2008, 08:14:

Hey ManInRed, I'll send him your way for a box of chocolates, or better yet once we get the Ronaldo deal sorted out I'll throw him in as good gesture and to avoid hard feelings...

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manINred says on Aug 9, 2008, 20:02:

lol, fair enough!

I must stilll question Uribe's taste as to choice of club ;) At least he didn't pick the scouse scum or something even more atrocious.

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goin_south says on Aug 9, 2008, 23:23:

TASCO.... U......R......................DE MAN!

Why Not Colombia?..........Stay Tuned, for more.... utterly worthless, self-indulgent gobbets of nonsense.

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