Ignorant warnings

Sam Salmon says on Dec 19, 2004, 11:12:

That's the Internet for you-people are in a hurry to 'give the right answer' and end up posting BS.



' a la orden!'

' a la orden!'

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bickerss says on Dec 19, 2004, 12:15:

Most of the people who write crap regarding Colombia have never been there, like watching CNN and reading gov websites on the dangers!!

Investment Strategy - buying when others are crying!! Offloading when others are gloating!!!

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Gator says on Dec 19, 2004, 13:03:

Gee Whiz, Good Golly Miss Molly and all this time my wife and I thought we were safe living here. For that wandering gringo, "¡Qué lástima que muriera tan jovan!"
But there are RISKS and stupidity WILL get you in trouble REAL fast.

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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bickerss says on Dec 19, 2004, 13:13:

¨¨I reviewed all three of the previouse posters comments and they are tourists or have only been here for a short time¨¨

Yes, I am a tourist but come here to Colombia every 6 weeks for two weeks, so know the country reasonably well. My post was not an attack on ur previous post about the buses (which I have not read) or any other. It was that generally, I have found that the people who assume that the moment u step of a plane in Colombia, you are going to be kidnapped, are ones who have never ever been and quote the embassy website pages. On the lonelyplanet website, I was once told my Op on something I was doing in Colombia was made up and that if I wanted to find out the truth regarding the situation here, to rent Collateral!!

I gave up counting the amount of people who express horror about my coming to Bogota, but have no reservations for me going to Rio, which is far more dangerous than Bogota in my opinion!

Investment Strategy - buying when others are crying!! Offloading when others are gloating!!!

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bickerss says on Dec 19, 2004, 13:36:

Most of the people who write crap regarding Colombia have never been there, like watching CNN and reading gov websites on the dangers!!

this comment was NOt directed at gringoinbogota!

Investment Strategy - buying when others are crying!! Offloading when others are gloating!!!

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adrimm (☼Travelguide writer) says on Dec 19, 2004, 13:59:

isaactraveler says on Dec 19, 2004, 14:32:

LaloG Good post, a bit strong If you feel that sometimes you have to wade through the bullshit for real information, you are right. But as they said above, you will find some very solid information here, and people who love Colombia. I would say 95 % of the posters (that are real) defend the country and try to express how inaccurate media and ignorant people do an injustice to a beautiful land.

That said, there are very real dangers here, almost all of them you have to go in search of. Most answers are usually given with first time travelers in mind and are usually followed/qualified by comparison to danger relative to a US city.

I love that you feel this way, every day more and more people are traveling to Colombia and are seeing first hand how great it is. Just remember that some people forget they arent at home.

BTW, Angelica told me that she rode an overnight bus from Bogota to Armenia and there was an armed guard on board. It is generally considered a safe ride, so maybe he was just taking a ride.

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LaloG says on Dec 19, 2004, 16:51:

You should read my post again. I DO live in Bogotá. I actually live in a barrio we have been told repetedly, by Colombians, is one of the most dangerous in the city. However, We don´t find it to be true at all, any more so than it was extraordinarily dangerous when I lived in the Lower East Side of Manhattan, and after that on the Bowery. So I think, having survived this long (I´m 60) living in bad cities and bad neighborhoods, I qualify to recognize danger when I see it. Since I read your post, I´ve been looking at every bus I see, which is a lot, but I don´t see any evidence to support your contention. Regarding robberies at ATMs, it is a fact of life if you stand on the street in any major city and withdraw cash from the machine, you are a making yourself a target. All I´ve been trying to say is that Bogotá, is no different from LA, London, Paris, or Calcutta, in that regard. So if I made you angry, maybe it´s because you didn´t understand what I wrote.

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LaloG says on Dec 19, 2004, 17:09:

Thanks Isaac, I don´t doubt there are dangers here. I just wanted to point out the irony that posters stating this country is more dangerous that others, haven´t been living in the real world. The whole fucking world is dangerous for stupid people, or people making dumb decisions.
We had an older friend come down to visit us here in Bogotá for a six week period. He was in a daydream most of the time, and was shortly robbed, had his pocket picked 12 times, and was scammed by the phony police routine. (come with us, you need to register your passport) He left Bogotá saying it was the most dangerous place he´d ever been in his life. Well, we both (my partner and I) think he was directly responsible for what happened to him. After the first week, we wouldn´t let him go anywhere alone. It helped, but he still had his pocket picked on Septema, (8 more times) because he was buying stuff from the vendors and was constantly pulling out a roll of several hundred thousand pesos to pay for a two peso item. He lost over $500 USD to pickpockets while he was here, and seemed incapable of realizing the stupidity of his own actions. The same thing has happened to him where he lives in the U.S. So he makes my point. It´s stupidity, or simply not pausing to think about what you are doing, that gets one into trouble no matter where you are. Then there is always Papaya rules. eh?

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 19, 2004, 18:58:

GringoinBogota just tell it like it is..... You just keep posting what you want. To some people, the truth hurts.
People want to live in a world of denial. If I may add, it is this very form of denial that will allow the situation to continue indefinitley. Colombians or people who were born in
Colombia like myself, but have lived here most of their adult lives should not be so interested in "Defending" Colombia, as muuch as they should be interested in doing all that they can to solve the problems that face her. People are quick to say..."Don't listen to those Gov. warnings...they're just lies...or just exagerations." So now I ask, what is the governments incentive to lie? Why??. Why don't they lie about Panama, or Costa Rica, or the Dominican Republic, or Chile, or Peru????? Why would they target poor Colombia to lie about. That's pretty ironic, considering apart from Iraq, Colombia, Israel, and Egypt are the top three countries that benefit from American aide. By the way, the US gov, puts out the same warnings about Israel. Is that a bunch of lies too???? I suppose Israel is safe too. All those suicide bombers .... that's just an exageration. Is Colombia the most dangerous place??? Of course not. But to make oversiplistic statements like..."If you watch where you go you will be ok.." --is just plain stupid. When you go to Colombia, you go to enjoy, the people, the culture, the music, the food, the women....IN SPITE of the fact she is a more dangerous than average country to visit.....And now I await the personal attacks that always come after I write things like this.....I see the cast of characters coming around the bend

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 19, 2004, 19:42:

Gingoinbogota...I hear ya !! Hang in there What a pleasure it is to know you. And in the short time I have been here, I have taken quite a bit of heat from my own people. As you should know by now, I was born in Colombia and I have been in the US most of my adult life. I still go back to Bogota to visit family and enjoy my people. And...I do cry when I leave. At least my eye waters as my plane takes off for the states. But I must tell you, deep down inside, my people, my wonderful loving Colombian people know I (we) speak the truth. But...they hate me for saying it on this web site. You see, everyday, the American press, Univision, Telemundo, Galavision, BBC,CNN....we are inundated with all the bad in Colombia. One day, even I was furious when I watched Univsion do a segment on the potholes in the streets of Bogota. I almost died. I thought..those Mal....Pxxxxs. Can't they ever say anything good about Colombia. Yes we have the FARC, the kidnappings, the paramilitaries, mafiosos and bla bla, now they have to talk about the porholes in Bogota?????? I almost threw the TV out the window. I wrote a letter to Univision and complained. Why couldn't they go to show Monserate, El museo de oro ??? Something good. Of course, they never answered. I thought, is this a conspiracy or what? So you see, where we come from? And then comes Gomezman5 (me) making negative statements...so I get attacked by my own people...Maybe I am wrong??? I don't know. But, I hear ya and I am with you and now you know there is at least one person from Colombia, that agrees with what you have said....but be carefull...of what you do, and don't give people here to much info about where you are in Bogota...Feel free to send me a personal message if you want.

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ColombianoX says on Dec 19, 2004, 20:13:

"You see, everyday, the American press, Univision, Telemundo, Galavision, BBC,CNN....we are inundated with all the bad in Colombia. One day, even I was furious when I watched Univsion do a segment on the potholes in the streets of Bogota. I almost died. I thought..those Mal....Pxxxxs. Can't they ever say anything good about Colombia. Yes we have the FARC, the kidnappings, the paramilitaries, mafiosos and bla bla, now they have to talk about the porholes in Bogota?????? I almost threw the TV out the window. I wrote a letter to Univision and complained. Why couldn't they go to show Monserate, El museo de oro ??? Something good. Of course, they never answered. I thought, is this a conspiracy or what? So you see, where we come from? And then comes Gomezman5 (me) making negative statements...so I get attacked by my own people...Maybe I am wrong??? I don't know."

Gomezman,

Yes Gomezman, I think you were wrong because at first you sounded just like those malicious reporters who only focus on the negative aspects of Colombia. There's nothing wrong with telling people the truth about the reality of the situation in Colombia, it's just how you go about saying it! You made it sound as if you hated the country and were trying to put it down, but now I see that's not the case.
As for those bastards from Univision, you know that Univision is run by mexicans who can't stand showing anything positive about any latin country that's not Mexico. I stopped watching that miserable channel a long time ago, thank God I get Caracol TV on DirecTv.

I congratulate you for writing that letter to Univision. Let me tell you that I used to frequent Univision.com a lot before I came to this page and you won't believe how many times I had to battle it out with mexicans who were always insulting Colombia. But I always put them in their place and many learned to think it twice before picking on Colombia again.

"I thought, is this a conspiracy or what? "

Sometimes I have thought this same exact thing, you never know. That's why it's up to us (english-speaking colombians) to defend Colombia, because if we don't do it, then who will?


ColombianoX

'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 19, 2004, 20:28:

Thanks ColombainoX I am so glad you had a chance to see what I wrote above..Even now I tear (honestly) because I am in %1000 agreement with you about Univision. Do you remember that guy Raoul Benoit??? I wanted to talk to this guy so much.!! The way he would distort the facts, and report with such an anti Colombia bias. To this day, I wish I could ask him why?? I don't want to take shots at my Latin brothers, but the hispanic media does have a propensity to have a pro Mexican..."all is perfect" bias. I know they are the largest Latino population here, but that does not mean that the Spanish speaking media doesn't have a duty to report fairly about other Latino cultures as well...And, on a personal note....I just want to be fair. I love Colombia,,,I know all the good, but sometimes.......I have to talk about the bad too.....I have toned it down..

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juanalejo says on Dec 19, 2004, 20:28:

Lets give Colombia a rest. I must say I do not know what to think, but I do agree that I feel our friend gringo does tend to concentrate on posts that tend to alarm people. For those of us who have lived in Colombia for most of our lives, and especially does of us who lived during the height of the guerrilla attacks in around 1999 we got so sick and tired of hearing the same story over and over again in diferent parts of the country and with diferent actors, to the point you did not know if it was true or not. Those stories enclosed our country to our departamento and for many people to their own cities, where they were familiar. Cali people thought Medellin was to dangerous, Bucaramanga people were scared of Pereira, so on and so forth. That was the main reason many Colombians stopped travelling by car, because people were ignorant about where they were going and all they heard were second hand stories. Then came Mr Uribe a few escorts and millions of cars on the road, now main roads do not have caravanas because they really never needed them, and the caravanas are going to places unthinkable a couple of years ago.
I got really worried with the Tota story as a good friend of mine has a finca near the lake, so I called him and told him what had happened as I occasionally get invited and according to him it has been some time since they have heard anything about the guerrilla in that area. He called the police in Sogamoso who he knows and they have not heard anything about guerrilla presence any where close to Tota, or in most of Boyaca for that matter. So what can I say, I just hope we do not fall into the same gossip times of a few years ago when people would not even travel to Bucaramanga or Cali from Bogota, roads that have never had problems and that I travel on 2 or 3 times a year. Travel by day still my best bet, but because I am more affraid of bandits on empty roads than guerrillas on miracle fishing. If I have even a doubt about guerrilla presence, I simply do not travel nor day nor night.
Yes we get a lot of bad press, more than we should, nobody talks about the caravanas escorted by army in Egypt, and it is the only way allowed to travel there by land towards southern Egypt, yet why do millions of tourist flock that place every year. My guess? Egyptians make sure tourists feel at ease with the security measures taken, to the point those bombings in a hotel not long ago do not harm their precious tourist industry. And lets not even talk about Spain, my all time favourite place in the world (after Colombia obviously), even if a bomb blows up every week, and at times 10 like at the beggining of this month, a few just outside Madrid and with a few people injured. Lets give Colombia a rest and always put things into perspectives. Just like Gomez said, why did Univision concentrate on potholes? Because Colombia sells in prime time news as long as the stories told are bad.

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isaactraveler says on Dec 19, 2004, 20:29:

There is a HUGE reason why govts lie with regards to exagerating the warnings, it is called political pressure by economic sanctions with scare tactics.

yeah there are dangers. But pay attention to local and national media, and SEE what is playing the most. When a country is not politically correct with the U.S., notice how we get swamped with bad news. Before we blame the U.S., note that this happens around the world. It is politics at its best.

Currently, Colombia is viewed in a favorable status so the media doesnt pepper us with crap. In fact, we started seeing articles in the Travel section regarding the people, politics and growth of Colombia in the last 6 months, all positive articles.

I don't believe that either, because I am not foolish. I do know that sometimes it seems that the WORST offenders of misinformation are the newly expatriated Colombianos. Not saying that you are wrong, not at all. just saying that the beauty of this forum is that we can see both sides, and do some personal homework on the subject.

Before I went to Colombia the first time, I actually made out a will, expecting that I could and would be a kidnap victim. BAH.

Colombia needs the tourists, and the country is quick to see that. I never felt in danger while I was there, but I also used common sense. Please note that I have yet to see anyone say to go to Colombia and feel free to get drunk and flash cash. But shit happens everywhere, and you can be a victim anywhere. Maybe we should all stay home and watch TV.

Elmo, where is that pistol?

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adrimm (☼Travelguide writer) says on Dec 19, 2004, 20:35:

Gomezman5 says on Dec 19, 2004, 20:38:

How true??? Let's look at Spain....At least to the extent there is terrorism, I have not heard on any trains being bombed or soccer stadiums being evacuated in any of the bid cities in Colombia like has happened recently in Spain. Are there any travel advisories against travel to Spain??? Besides, I am still a bit pissed at them for imposing visa requirements on Colombia. I think they have become more arrogant then the Argentinians. Is that possible???

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isaactraveler says on Dec 19, 2004, 21:04:

Adrimm that wasnt a sloth it was a very fat cat with some of its toes missing. hee hee

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Sam Salmon says on Dec 19, 2004, 21:16:

"sometimes it seems that the "sometimes it seems that the WORST offenders of misinformation are the newly expatriated Colombianos"
How very very true!
When I was in Colombia last February someone I know met some Colombians who had just arr'd here in Vancouver.They told him that tourists like me were being slaughtered almost daily on the streets of Bogota and the chances of my returning home were poor-total pendejada.
Yet he still believes them-whom I have never met-and is convinced that I was 'just lucky'.



' a la orden!'

' a la orden!'

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adrimm (☼Travelguide writer) says on Dec 19, 2004, 21:26:

Gomezman5 says on Dec 19, 2004, 22:02:

Do they ever really leave....? Most of the rich Colombians that I know, come here (the states) to places like Miami, buy a condo, just to spend some time here, but they never really sell their homes in Colombia. They kind of go up and back. However, in fairness, I know of one rich paisa, who was getting calls threatening to kidnapp a member of his family. He owns a bus. in el centro. I don't know how much time I would be there if I had these kind of calls. On the other hand, he had that condo in
South Florida before he ever got a call(s) of this nature.....
Who knows?

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adrimm (☼Travelguide writer) says on Dec 19, 2004, 22:06:

Gomezman5 says on Dec 19, 2004, 22:26:

adrimm has it right Canada, especially BC, is fairly upfront about buying your way into what they call "landed". In fact, in British Colombia, shortly before Honk Kong was returned to China, wealthy Chinese came to BC, obtained landed status, and drove up property prices so fast and so high, --- I had never seen anything like it in my life. Canada was all to happy to accept them b/c they brought a lot of $$ to Canada and that helped the local economy. Of course they did not know any English. To this day, if you walk around, downtown Vncouver you will note that there are at least as many Asian people as non asians

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ColombianoX says on Dec 19, 2004, 22:52:

"One thing I've noticed with amusement is that in brief cruiseship advertisments is that other ports are often listed by their nation, BUT Cartagena is always the standalone city name.

ie. Port stops in: Mexico * Belize * Costa Rica * Cartagena * Brazil"


I think this is very discriminatory and we can't allow this to continue! This turned my stomach when I read it! It's almost as if they perceived the beautiful name of our nation to be some sort of 'bad word'. It's completely insulting!

ColombianoX

'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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adrimm (☼Travelguide writer) says on Dec 19, 2004, 23:11:

kernow62 says on Dec 20, 2004, 04:48:

Trust Adrimm to see the bright side. :-)

Once many of those folks arrive in port though they just stay on the ship. I don't care for cruises, my wife however loves them. So she goes on cruises with her sister and parent's and I stay home and babysit the cats.

I like to stay at least a few days in each town I visit, cruises allow only a few hours. Ships are romantic though, especially if you have a private balcony and the moon is full.

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 20, 2004, 07:37:

Good Morning Gringo You know I'm with you in general. Denial...is a problem for some. But, at the same time, I will generally agree with those who say if you are in the big cities, especially on the north side of Bogota, you (someone) should be ok. May I say this however, I have tried to avoid mentioning individuals who disagree with me. Some do get personal, and uneceesarily so. I have had it out with ColombianoX and Greenday to a greater degree. Yesterday, Colombiano X and I were able to agree on a few issues and I think as we get to know each other better, we we will find more common ground.

But friend, enjoy the good part about Colombia. Remember, you are in the country with the most beautiful women in the world. Ok, call me biased. They are as beautiful inside as they are outside. The people are friendly. The food is great. It's cheaper to live there. Today I pay the maid $45 to clean my house. She will be here 3 and half hours and then she leaves. In Colombia, or that price I can get my house cleaned every day for a week.

My point is that you are living there and while you have to keep the risks in mind....just enjoy and be carefull. You know where you can go in Bogota. Don't walk down the Caracas in the night. (that's an obvious one) But you can walk on the CR 15 anytime. As to San Andrecito...it's not really dangerous. I just don't like the area. It's kind of messy especially after a heavy rain. It's far. And, above all, I don't think the prices are that great. I don't think you will save much more for things over the prices you pay in the centro or Chapinero.....Anyway,,,take it easy.

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Sacramento_saint says on Dec 20, 2004, 07:39:

Good Point I agree with you-- I went to Armania, Colombia and had a great time with my Wife and her Family--- That being said I was quite aware of the places that were dangerous. I grew up in New Orleans and later moved to Sacramento, for year I would tell people that New Orleans was a safe city to visit and not to listen to the news reports that they were #1 Murder Capital in the U.S. per Capita. The truth is there are places in New Orleans that I would not be caught alive in, or at least alive for long. These are places in New Orleans where drugs are bought and sold, and crime is rampid. New Orleans is a great place to visit but people should stay in the tourist area and not go on a long walk because the project are pretty close to the French Quarter. I know where to go and where not to go so I have never been a victim of crime there, but if I told you go down there have a blast, "problems no problems there", and you were a victim of a crime, I would be partly at fault for giveing you a false sence of security.

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mrxcol says on Dec 20, 2004, 07:41:

Hope you gringo mantain your decision. If you think sanandresito is a safe place to go, you have no idea what a safe place or a dangerous place is. San andresito is a dangerous place if you don't keep an eye on what you are doing, i mean, you need to know how to move, what to do. I'd recommend Sanandresito but for somebody who's been living in Colombia or going (first time) with a colombian. It's different that saying it's safe.


Julian

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 20, 2004, 07:48:

Gringo San Andres is still nice It's still a popular place. San Andres is unique. It's a very scenic island. People still travel there from europe. I have a friend in Cali who works for one of the largest travel agencies and they are always selling out package specials to SA.

Now if you are flying from the US, there are no direct flights. But if SA is your destiny, I am sure it is closer and cheaper to fly from a central american country and then switch to a flight to SA. I did it in 98. I flew to Costa Rica...stayed there a fewm and then caught a flight to SA. It was only about 45 minutes from Costa Rica. Flying to Bogota is way out of the way......

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 20, 2004, 07:52:

mrxcol You have it right. It's not too safe from a tourist perespective. I just don't think it's worth going to period....It's messy and after your done bargaining with these characters...I don't think the prices are that good either.

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 20, 2004, 08:06:

San Andres is not safe? They pride themselves on how safe it is and how it isn't at all like Colombia. At least that's what all the cab drivers would tell me in English once they knew that my wife could not speak English. It's a favorite destination for Canadians and Canadians are safety-obsessed - they generally do not go anywhere that is not safe. Even the overly paranoid US State Department concedes that San Andres is safe.

As for New Orleans, it has a bad reputation but I have never had any problems there even to wandering around the cemetaries which are supposed to be dangerous. Of course its murder rate is still less than most Colombian cities.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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mrxcol says on Dec 20, 2004, 08:32:

Sorry gringo but that's the reason why most of the world hate americans. Most of the world deal with USA because of the money you have not because you're the best place to live in. Don't come here pretending you have the best country and don't try to impose your manners here. This is colombia and we do the thing here the way be want. I don't waste my time talking to americans like you. I prefer the 4 americans i'm waiting for this christmas and are eager to know Colombia although stupid people like you think it's stupid to come here having better beaches in Miami, better saftey in Panama, better universities in LA and better social system in the whole USA.

So, and this is personal:

Que putas estas haciendo en Colombia gringo de mierda ? andate para tu país y dejanos vivir en paz y dejá que los que de verdad quieran venir conocer Colombia vengan sin tener a un hijueputa gringo sensible hablando solo mierda de Colombia !

If don't understand, fuck you it's up to you. It's OK to have different opinions about something but remember: you're in Colombia and unless you work for the Embassy it's ok that you you give warnings but not to speak shit the whole time when somebody wants an american to come here. I have lots of USA born and grown friend who come to Colombia to find is a safe place despite you opinions.


Julian.

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dwmte says on Dec 20, 2004, 08:35:

posts on safety.......... one hopes that those who post are familiar with what they speak of and that the readers have a bit of a clue as to how to separate the wheat from the chaf.

i've lived 4 1/2 years in and around medellin. first during the heighth of the pablo years, '89-'92, and let me tell you, i was like an experiment in virtual reality...living in the mayhem, murder, bombings and violence. i saw them shot dead right in front of me...more than once.

here some 15 years later, clearly, as medellin's mayor, mr. valderama points out in his concerned and thoughtful post, things have changed. they've changed so much, that for those who lived during the high violence years and those who live there now, it's like living in two different worlds.

however, to say that those who post cautioning comments are perveyors of bull shit and scare tactics is to miss the truth. colombia IS dangerous. poverty and a drug born economy along with the on going problems of armed insurgency creat a very serious crime problem which inturn creates a need for very serious caution and applied common sense. failure to do so, will, as i have repeatedly posted, get you dead. i've lived in areas where the campesinos are farmers during the day and put on camoflauge at night. the only reason i had no problems with them is because i taught their children english for nothing other than concern for them. they spoke well of me and the result was my long term safety. had i not put some generosity into the bargain, i, like so many other travellers and colombians, been one more miserable/sad statistic.

i have and will continue to post common sense warnings as to what to do, where to do it, who to do it with and the like. failure to pay attention to mine and other familiar posters is to increase the dangers that can confront one. paying attention can reduce them.

i have no wish to alarm anyone, rather to arm them. the dangers and problems are real. there are places safer left unvisited. there are things one can do that are better left undone. and there are people with whom one can associate with who are better left out of ones life.

ilove colombia (am married to a paisa, have buried a son in medellin and have a 12 year old daughter, also born in envigado) we will ultimately retire there permanently (i'm 62) we have a home in envigado, although we wont live in envigado. probably in llano grande or maybe sabaneta. you see, i choose colombia over my own country. because she's wonderful, warm, charming, full of art and ancient culture, her music is the best and her people endearing. but with all this, she's still dangerous and don't any of you forget it.

be safe by being wise.

peace to all of you and enjoy the wonderful wonders of colombia.

dwmte

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Crazy4Cali says on Dec 20, 2004, 08:35:

you can't believe everything you see I was watching "Exciting Police Videos" this morning and all the car chases seemed to be in LA or some other part of California...I wonder why no one has warned me about how dangerous it will be to drive to and in California?

Nowadays, that rough neighborhood known as Iraq has drowned out anythong goinh on in some of the other world's most dangerous places. Consequently, Colombia doesn't get much airplay in the news these days (for better or for worse) however, the mere mention of even thinking about travelling to Colombia still raises all sorts of concern from my seriously underinformed friends. Maybe they should watch more of the police chase videos to have a better sense of perspective.

What's most disappointing is how quickly and easily people seem to draw conclusions from very little (if even accurate) information.

I'm glad I went to Colombia and can't wait to return!

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mrxcol says on Dec 20, 2004, 08:36:

Forgot to say: It's OK that you have different opinions as it's the basis for mankind evolution. but it's not OK to speak with so much prejudice. In spanish: "A tierra que fueres, haz lo que vieres"

If you notice i always warn and give advice about Colombia. In fact i'm a litlle exagerated in my advice but it's better to have a warned tourist than a robbed tourist. But from warning to give advices full of prejudice there's a big difference.

Julian

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 20, 2004, 08:46:

Thanks for the post, DW. I like to refer to my wife as Mrs. Magoo (hmmmm, that would make me Mr. Magoo). She lived in Medellin for 25 years and even during the worst of it she says she never witnessed any bad happenings - it was always "muy tranquilo"! Of course she's the same person who says that her neighbor got shot by "accident" - they were aiming at someone else and missed!

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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ColombianoX says on Dec 20, 2004, 10:27:

"will never repeat anything I have heard I will just choose to ignore all the dangers and be just like ColombianaX who is absolutely clueless. This person was an adopted Colombian Baby and since this time has never been here but considers himself an authority on Colombia. "

GringoinBogota,

Just what the hell are you talking about? When have I "chosen to ignore all the dangers"? I usually don't comment on the security situation in Colombia because I don't live there! So don't put words in my mouth! Just because I stick up for the country doesn't mean that I'm "ignoring the dangers"! Yes, Colombia is dangerous, but you know what? That's not gonna change how I feel about her! BTW, I'd love to be in your place right now, living in Bogota, man you're lucky!

And where did you come up with this adopted baby nonsense?

CX

'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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caslug says on Dec 20, 2004, 10:56:

safety warnings or personal stories about safety.. are helpful, especially the personal stories because they give one person's view on their exp in COL. Maybe GIB exp is not like the rest of us, but as long as he's telling the truth then he can should explain & post it. Even if he "inadvertingly" scare away a few readers from coming to COL, so what? Do you really want to tell people to ignore warnings because they are outlandish, and have some "newbie" get robbed. THEN that "newbie" will tell everyone that listen how "dangerous" COL is and everyone visiting will get robbed. I rather have that "newbie" either be very cautious if going or not go it all.

Even local COL tell me to be careful, I told a taxi driver that i wanted to see plaza de bolivar and the gov't buildings, he told me that it was very dangerous(this was a weekday around noon). When we got in front of the presidental palace and i saw all the security, i decided that it wasn't so dangerous afterall, and had him drop me off. But i didn't tell him that he was BS me, i thank him for the ride and left. I was my own decision, based on my own observation, i went down there twice and both times taxi driver told me it was dangerous. Both time i looked around THEN ignore their warning.

Unless w/ live there awhile and develop "street smart" and local knowledge, everyone should be "extra" careful.

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ShazCas says on Dec 20, 2004, 10:57:

My two cents For those who don't know me very well, I am a gringa who lived near the centre of Bogota for four and a half years. So I guess you'd say I'm not a tourist. Although I wouldn't tend to be as alarmist as gringoinbogota, I would defend him and say his warnings are a good thing - of course they are, what if you were a gringo thinking of going to that lake and you read this, well you'd know to stay clear for a while, wouldn't you? Surely that's what this forum is all about - providing useful information for visitors to Colombia?

Colombia is a very dangerous place in many respects, and there's no denying that. I wouldn't have much sympathy for a person who acted recklessly there and then complained about getting robbed or something. Or for someone who wasn't prepared - you've got to be prepared for anything there - if you don't like the risk, don't go.

I think Colombian families exaggerate the danger in cities, and many tend to live sheltered lives, only visiting certain areas. They say that any other area they don't know is very dangerous. Many Colombians living outside Colombia and foreigners who have fallen in love with the place tend to speak less of the dangers and more of the positive sides to the country. If you live in a dangerous place you get sick and tired of your country's bad international reputation and you want to show people that there is so much MORE. Amd of course Colombia is a hundred times LESS dangerous than the US and European media often portrays it to be!

But terrifying, blood-curdling things happen there. There's no getting away from that. The thing is, the chances that it will happen to you are slim, and very slim if you take precautions. It's up to the individual how cautious they want to be. Gringoinbogota is much more cautious than me, but that's a personal decision and he's probably less likely to get into trouble than me! The thing is, I'm willing to take a bit more of a risk, because I'm enjoying my life to the full that way.

And personally, as a child of the troubles in Northern Ireland, I know that if you worry about things and let fear control you, you're not living your life to the full. You have to push it to the back of your mind and say to yourself, "It'll never happen to me". And it probably won't. But who knows, you could die of a heart attack tomorrow.

It's your choice.

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elmodefoque says on Dec 20, 2004, 11:13:

shazcas, you're always so wise. why can i be like that too? must be that damn goat and burro milk i grew up drinking.

I'll get there, when I get there!

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caslug says on Dec 20, 2004, 11:38:

taxi driver warning.. Both times, when i got down to the plaza, i looked around and saw office worker and policeman walking around. I figure if it was safe for some female office worker to walk around then it was safe for me. Plus, i took the necessary caution like not wearing flashy jewlery, staying close to the all the cops(see my foto album) or crowd of people. I was more concern about pickpoketers. So i had all most of my money/creditcard/etc., in a money belt. I always ask the hotel manager if a particular area is OK to go to.

My big safety strategy is stick to crowded streets when walking. And look at the crowd, if i see old people & women walking around, it's usually safe. If i see bunch of dodge guys maybe not. I ALWAYS asked taxi driver/hotel clers if this area is safe to walk around, especially at night.

Most of us would agree w/ Shaz in not letting our fears paralyze us from having a good time. A good traveller doesn't discount danger, we understand that's it is there and to be watchful.

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Sam Salmon says on Dec 20, 2004, 12:09:

"San Andres is not safe? They "San Andres is not safe? They pride themselves on how safe it is and how it isn't at all like Colombia.It's a favourite destination for Canadians and Canadians are safety-obsessed - they generally do not go anywhere that is not safe"
Hey!
I resemble that remark!
How dare you say something like that about 'the most insured people on earth'?
And Yes San Andres is a favoured destination for Canucks especially ones from Ontario and Quebec-the proof is that Charter companies fly plane loads of snow refugees there all winter long.Any hint of trouble and those people would disappear.
The proof is that once upon a time Cartagena was a popular place to spend a few weeks in winter-that business died decades ago and has never recovered.
The good news for Canadians is that some people in CTG remember those visitors and we have a good name in many places still.

' a la orden!'

' a la orden!'

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 20, 2004, 12:27:

Funny post, Sam! I was looking for a way to go directly from the US to San Andres and all I could find were those damm charter flights from Canada!

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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ShazCas says on Dec 22, 2004, 13:03:

Thanks elmo Me? Wise? Thanks for the compliment elmo, though I'm not always that wise, unfortunately.

Juanalejo, I just wanted to say that I wished I had known someone like you when I lived in Bogota, because I loved travelling around so much, but it was really had to get a proper realistic perspective on the situation in different places. So I sometimes ended up being scared on buses because I really didn't know if there were any risks or not on that road on that day, and maybe I did end up a bit trapped in Bogota for a while. People either said "No way, no bus travel" or "It's absolutely fine everywhere all the time!" neither f which was very useful. You sound informed and realistic - oh well, maybe you'll still be a member of this forum when I eventually get to go back to Colombia - I'd really value your advice!

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magicheater says on Dec 25, 2004, 16:36:

safety in colombia:dwmte post thanx for what appears to be a very realistic assesment. I am traveling to colombia in a couple of months so am finding out as much as I can before hand and posts like this are very helpful. There was useful info in some of the other posts too. Perhaps when I get back I will be able to comment on my experiences in this area.

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Sac_Saint says on Dec 25, 2004, 17:08:

WOW! You are an angry person. First I want to start out by saying that I don't think the whole world hates Americans. I think some people hate what the U.S. Govt does, including some Americans.

Second me and my wife have traveled both to Spain, Portugal, Colombia,and the U.S., what we found that the people in Colombia and the U.S. are more polite by far then in Spain, and Potugal... Go ahead and travel to Lisbon and watch how they will delay you as they scan your passport. I am sure that happens in the U.S. but it didn't happen to my wife and she is the one that was livid at the way the Europeans treat people who are not from there country. I noticed it to but I could care less because it just tells me that they have issues in Europe.

A little off the subject.... Why are you so angry? It is only opinions. I travel a lot but to be honest with you my favorite place in the World so far is California. My Opinion, don't be so sensative.
P.S. I know enough Spanish to understand what you were writing. Which is why again I ask why are you so angry?

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 25, 2004, 18:36:

Why is he so angry? They put starch in his shorts again and he hates it when his BVDs are harder than he is. Can you translate what he said? The rest of us can't speak any Spanish and we are trying to learn. How do you feel about Monica Belluci?

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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kernow62 says on Dec 25, 2004, 19:06:

gringoinbogota you mentioned that $1 million in ransom insurance was only around $1000 a year. Seems sort of low to me, shouldn't it be around $20,000 to $25,000 a year given that kidnapping is so pervasive in Colombia. Is it such a low premium because the payout is usually less than $5000? Just curious, $1000 seems like a pretty good deal. I can't even insure my car in the US for that.

It sure would be beneficial to the FARC if they ever got a list of those holding such policies!

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 25, 2004, 19:11:

The premiums would have been higher but he's had a few fender benders over the years. All they're going to give them is his depreciated value. What kind of car are you driving?

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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kernow62 says on Dec 25, 2004, 20:20:

What do I drive? Why a taxi of course, want a tour of Medellin?

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 25, 2004, 20:44:

Muchas gracias, Pablo's pissed because I told everyone about his slightly used photo of Monica Belluci. I would take the tour but I read that Medellin's highly overrated. Does "sabelotodo" really mean shithead in Spanish? I read that but I'm not sure if it's true.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 25, 2004, 21:02:

Kernow You might want to consider working for Utopia. I think you will do a hell of a lot better job than Pablo. You might even be able two help those Gringo millioaires looking to get laid.

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kernow62 says on Dec 26, 2004, 04:31:

I'm not helping anyone get laid, if they can't do it by themselves...Heck if they're millionaires I might just kidnap them. Then gringoinbogota can negotiate their release, but I am going to keep them locked safely away, I might even taunt them by bringing beautiful paisa women in and get laid right in front of them.

The more people are scared shitless about Colombia the more kidnappings; the better Ackerman does, heck they might even be in on it with the kidnappers! ;-)

kernow the virtual taxista.

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 26, 2004, 09:29:

Kernow, que locura! Taunt 'em dude! Taunt 'em! While you're at it, get Greg and make him watch too.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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miamimike says on Dec 27, 2004, 22:10:

GTB-one of my Bogota experiences !!! In '96 I was a few blocks north of Plaza Bolivar with some time to kill and I decided to go into a bank to check on some CD rates. It was about 10am and many business types folk walking in the streets. I was dressed in a way that should not have drew any attention-no loud clothes, gold rings or fancy watches of any sort. Plus no aimless gawking at the skyscrapers you get the drift....Entered the bank, talked with the investment manager and upon shaking hands and turning around to leave-the Banker told me-Senor ya esta marcado, as it was only my 1st trip there wondered what the hell he was talking about. He told me to take off my jacket and there it was evident--a white chalkmark about 8" long down the back of my jacket--he informed me the gruops of 3--as you mentioned--one of them had marked me(he said they use a perfume type spray bottle with chalk dust to mark their Target--you don't feel a thing. The banker informed me that if I leave by the same door I entered--probably another one of the group would have nailed me a few yards down the street from the bank--and then a 3rd member of the theft ring would have come and the loot would have been passed off to this guy. He called me a cab and it arrived at the back door of the bank--the guard escorted me to the back door and I had the driver take me back to my hotel and nothing uneventful happened--BUT it almost did. Gets your attention for sure. Up to that point in time I felt 100% safe in walking around but you never know. I use that same tactic you do--I carry a decoy wallet with a few bucks and those credit cards they send in the mail for Solicitation purposes. Thats what these guys would got had they nailed me--I have used this tactic for over 20 years in my travels since my work in the merchant marine from the Far East, south america and Europe. Great tactic--better off to lose a few bucks then possibly your life or a broken nose. This travel adviseries are not just for Bogota but ANY big foreign city worldwide. Travel, have fun but NEVER let your guard down.

Avatar Legend: Bush "If any of you Reporters are wondering, it was a Size 10"

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miamimike says on Dec 27, 2004, 22:31:

ATM Safety living here in Miami-the ATMs can be dangerous. In my case here I probaly am overly careful-if I have to make a withdrawal at night I always pull through the drive thru first and check the other side for a lurker-they rob people frequently here at the ATMs-catching people offguard during withdrawals AND it does happen more then it should in miami. In Bogota I use 'em frequently and I always try to use the one at CitiBank-as it is inside away from prying eyes. If possible I leave via another exit. Usually the security will accomadate your request. If I have to use one in a mall and I do-I will always KNOW my surroundings and who is hanging around. Sometimes I grab a cup of coffee and survey the scene from a distance to see if any of those 3 group gangs are hanging around to hit an unsuspecting customer--one hits you, a 2nd passes by and gets the $$ handoff, then its passed to a 3rd guy at a door and they are gone and so is your $$$. Easy. When I am satisfied its safe-I make that withdrawal and leave the area-I can count it elsewhere. Overly concerned-maybe-but better safe then sorry. ATM hits are commen in Miami,why wouldn't it happen in Bogota??

Avatar Legend: Bush "If any of you Reporters are wondering, it was a Size 10"

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miamimike says on Dec 27, 2004, 22:53:

A Colombian/american Buddy got Fleeced in Bogota 2 years ago a buddy who is in his 50s is colombian/american and was born in North Bogota. He speaks perfect spanish like a bogotano, he has traveled south america many many times in his work and was never robbed until one night in Bogota. He probably did a stupid thing by his own addmission-he was returning from the mall at Santa Barbara(in his sister's barrio) and as we all know this is a pretty nice area, appears safe, not too many vagos in sight.Maybe it was his dress--he had a small gold diamond pinky ring, his seiko watch and otherwise was not dressed to the "nines" He had his ATM and credit cards in his shoe and maybe $50 in pesos in his pocket. This night he called a cab from the mall and as it pulled up he got in and nothing appeared out of place. A few blocks down the street the driver pulls off the main street and told my buddy "were here" before my buddy could protest we are not here over another car pulls in behind the Taxi and the HIT was on-they blindfolded him--drove him to South Bogota(as he discovered later)and then robbed him of his money, watch and Ring. They placed him against a bldg and told him not to move for 15 minutes or he would be dead meat. He complied and then a passerby came to his aid. Luckily-they did not get the cards in his shoe and he got by with a relatively small loss but it could have been worse. Point is--HE did not look like an American Tourist and yet it happened to him. To say nothing happens in Bogota is simply being disingenous. Did he go back--you bet--2 0r 3 times since. Does he do things different-YOU BET. He loves Bogota but he let his guard down just once and BAM-got nailed. Maybe his number was up-by the law of averages. For the Doubting Thomases I wish you could talk to him. Have fun, go to Bogota but be aware and profit from my Buddy's hard luck !!

Avatar Legend: Bush "If any of you Reporters are wondering, it was a Size 10"

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Lionheart says on Dec 27, 2004, 23:14:

areas known to me like that As miamimike states ... it can happen in any major city world-wide. I got into some trouble in Amsterdam, escaped a close call in Paris, and got held up a few times in Eastern Europe, including date rape drugs twice - don't drink with strangers. Any major port city along the Mediteranean Sea is dangerous too. The practises are the same everywhere. Be on your guard at all times. My parents keep getting robbed in Southern France and Italy because they refuse to drive in cities with the car windows shut. Passing motorcyclist lean in and grab what they can, and use knives if needed. Some never learn.....

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