If you argue correctly, you will never be wrong.

litost says on Nov 19, 2006, 09:40:

Juan Pablo, I also defend Colombia constantly with people from all over the world who have negative perceptions... but please don't speak for all of us saying that "no colombian will accept bad judgement on us"! I welcome open and direct constructive criticism, and I think that's the most civilized thing to do... if not we would be just as intolerant as islamic fundamentalists are towards anyone who criticizes their religion for example. If we don't accept judgements from others and just limit ourselves to the mindless "colombia is paradise and colombians are the best" chorus, all we do is sound stupid and avoid adressing the many negative aspects of Colombia which exist, as in any other country.

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arthur brode says on Nov 19, 2006, 09:48:

"Colombia IS paradise and Colombians ARE the best" When are you guys going to finally get that through your heads!!!

http://www.calirentals.net/

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Miguel says on Nov 19, 2006, 11:07:

Hermanitos Anyone who has lived in or traveled to Colombia knows it is what it is.

In my experience...if I were paided the hourly Colombian minimum wage for the time I have defended Her, I would have already made enough plata to retire in an estrato 4 apartment on the north coast.

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bufalo says on Nov 19, 2006, 11:14:

Here's the visa thing... let's say you have a party and you invite me and I bring along some (uninvited) family members. Some of them decide to move in, break some of your stuff, complain that they want to live in the best room in the house, don't flush the toilet, etc. They get offended when the owner tells them to stop behaving as such and even call lawyers to defend their rights (again, these are UNINVITED guests or invited guests who decided they weren't going to leave.)

Now again, this is YOUR house. Are you going to invite me again? If you do are you going to first give me a good talking-to to make sure I don't invite any more relatives? Again, it was only one or some of my relatives, not every one. BUT it is your house and you have absolutely NO obligation to invite me nor anyone in my family.

If Colombians would respect the visa limitations, they wouldn't have problems with it. It isn't so much about the "drug fame". They don't leave when asked to.

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

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Miguel says on Nov 19, 2006, 11:59:

Snr Medellin-Londres Grab a mitt and get in the game. The so called Elmo is just as much of a colombiano as you are. You come off as a cachaco; therefore the friction.

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Miguel says on Nov 19, 2006, 12:01:

Snr Medellin-Londres Happy Thanksgiving.

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goin_south says on Nov 19, 2006, 12:44:

Juanp and SML Nope. Your b*tching ain't gonna change PBH, but your constructive Posting might. I was thinking of writing a new post before logging on today, but this one gives me the reference I had. PBH is what it is. IF YOU - ANYONE - CAN..."READ BETWEEN THE LINES"...

...YOU - ANYONE - CAN LEARN ALOT ABOUT COLOMBIA ON THIS SITE, and maybe we can all learn more if you quit the complaining and start writing about your country.

There are quite a few other Colombianos/Colombianas who write very well on here; maybe you can take a lesson from them and help to make PBH a the better place you are looking for.

Si, Juanp... I got lost reading your initial post here, wondering WTF you were trying to say.

Ciao! Gustav. Bienvenitos, Ike.

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arthur brode says on Nov 19, 2006, 12:49:

bufalo sounds like a description of an univited Gringo guest to me.bufalo,here is what Honda thinks about your "uninvited" guest.

http://www.calirentals.net/

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Nov 19, 2006, 12:51:

SML There is some truth in what you say. "Bueno es culantro pero no tanto".

Cheers,
Desi

«Sé que los seres humanos y los peces podrán coexistir en paz». ( George W. Bush, Saginaw 29-09-00)

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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podborski says on Nov 19, 2006, 13:24:

juanp I think sometimes you misunderstand what people write here because your english isn't absolutely perfect (not criticising you, your english is far better than my spanish). Sometimes people are being sarcastic or satirical and it's hard to tell if you are not a native english speaker.

I just don't see anyone bashing colombia here, and so I don't understand why people feel the need to defend it. And to do so by hurling insults, as some do, is bizarre. No big deal, but I just don't get it.

Some of 'the boys' talking about a few pretty/manipulative/professional women or why you shouldn't go to a bank machine at 3 AM while wearing neon coloured shorts is hardly anything to get all worked up over.

No one ever said bad things don't happen in other countries, but we are not talking about other countries, this is a site about colombia.

As for all the talk about women, that's common everywhere you go. You can't tell me colombians are not the first ones to bring up that topic. Men like to bitch about women, just like women like to bitch about men.

If I wanted to have an intellectual debate I sure wouldn't do it with a bunch of anonymous jokers on the net.

And I can't believe anyone thinks that anything said here influences world opinion of colombia...I mean come on...

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billyb says on Nov 19, 2006, 13:59:

SML. don't you ever get tired of... whinning like a little B$tch?

BillyB

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Miguel_Clavo says on Nov 19, 2006, 15:01:

Bufalo, i believe your argument applies more to the illegal Mexicans currently in the US as opposed to the Colombians. The number of illegal Colombians pales compared to illegal Mexicans in the US.

And when it comes to positions on various issues argued here on PBH, i seriously doubt that one side will ever convince the opposing side to change their opinion of the matter at hand. Can you imagine someone like G5 switching his opinion on security in Colombia? or Platano suggesting Nuclear Weapons to solve the FARC situation? So what results is perpetual arguments (and insults, of which i share the blame..)and the positions just keep repeating themselves over and over and over and over...just like a broken record...

Sr ML, not every gringo on this site is obsessed with cheap sex, hookers, drugs, and Elmo. In todays societys no one can control personal thought and the exchange of views. The only option if one disapproves of the subject matter is to not participate.

Me, personally , i like Arthur Brodes take on the situation.....he has the right attitude......


Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo...Listo!! Libertad!!!...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Dan says on Nov 19, 2006, 15:08:

going of the title I like the title "If you argue correctly, you will never be wrong." It reminded me of a guy I know who went to another country in South America. He got pulled over while making an illegal right turn at a red light. The police asked for license and paperwork. Since the police ask for payments right there, he was expecting to make some type of payment to the police. He handed a US drivers license, saying that it was an International license, arguing that he isn't from that country, and the guy I know brought up the Hague Convention agreements and pretty much BS'ed this police guy for a while and was pretty much told to be respectfull of the laws when visiting other places. He didn't have to pay anything at all either. A good argument can save your butt from a lot of trouble.

God Bless America!

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Miguel_Clavo says on Nov 19, 2006, 15:28:

That might work, but the way it works is that in addtion to presenting the drivers license from your own country you also need to present the Hague Convention approved International Drivers License which is only good for one year at a time....if the country was a signer to the Haque Convention agreement.

When i rode the police motorcycles, i let the attitude of the offender determine whether he got a ticket or a friendly warning...

and yes, a good argument can save some skin abrasion! hahaha...


Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo...Listo!! Libertad!!!...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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goin_south says on Nov 19, 2006, 15:33:

Si, Dan And, a cousin of mine in Miami wrote a few days ago, that he has a couple of friends who go to Colombia 3 times a year, and one guy was having some problems with some guerillas and he started using his best Deutche on them and convinced them that he was European, not N American... Does that make any sense? Ich sprechen ein bisen deutsch,... Quiza, necesito mas!

Ciao! Gustav. Bienvenitos, Ike.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Nov 19, 2006, 15:44:

I would think that claiming to be Irish IRA would work well with FARC......or being related to any of the celebrities they have been soliciting lalely...........

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo...Listo!! Libertad!!!...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Miguel_Clavo says on Nov 19, 2006, 16:16:

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo...Listo!! Libertad!!!...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Gomezman5 says on Nov 19, 2006, 16:41:

Move Over ColombianoX "Can you imagine someone like G5 switching his opinion on security in Colombia?"

LOL. I have not even visited this web site in about 3 weeks, and the very first time I log in, and the very first thread that I read, my name is brought up. Why are people so obsessed with me? Things must be pretty boring around here that I have to be made a part of the debate when I have not even been on the forum......


It only substantiates my point all the more....correctly I may add. If you have to use me in one form or another to substantiate your point, what ever your point may be, you're in sad shape my man.

I wonder how many other times my name has been brought into play???ColX, just like they will not let you go in peace. I guess they will not let me take a time out either. Let's face it. YOu guys desperately need me here. Who else is there on this forum that has even come close to being the recipient of illogical and personal arguments like I have? Answer: Nobody

That's why they just can't leave me out of things. Long live G5.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Nov 19, 2006, 16:48:

G5, it is so much more fun to talk about someone behind his back.jajaj.....its an American traditon! i made that point that i dont think anyone on this site will convince you to change your position on the security issue in Colombia.....didnt you read the post? not in sad shape at all....but since you are one of the hard core Chicken Little club members, your name popped up.....nothing personal, just a comment on your steadfast belief on the security position....(and to see if you were lurking out there! jajajaja..)..i think the opposite it true, G5, YOU NEED US! jajajaja...


Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo...Listo!! Libertad!!!...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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bufalo says on Nov 19, 2006, 17:31:

My post was in reference to all of the illegal immigrants. Why do so many people on this site have problems with their wives going to the US? Because of all the illegals from the same country who overstayed their visas before them. Mexico has way more illegals in the US than Colombia does, but the country passes a certain percentage point of people who overstay their visa and it screws it up for everyone else. Uruguayans didn't used to need a visa, but too many were going and staying, so something had to be done.

Arthur, I never overstayed my visa here. I don't break the law so I don't see how that applies to me. You are right in what you said (or as I saw it implied) gringos can be uninvited guests as well. In all seriousness the scariest group of guys I ever met in Colombia (and I knew some big-time dealers who are now "in another place") happened to be gringos. Plenty of others just come for prostitutes, underage kids, or think they are better than the colombians. I'm not in that group.

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

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Gomezman5 says on Nov 19, 2006, 17:41:

Miguel.....miguel I just find it ironic that I check in for the first time in weeks,and the very first thread I read, my name is mentioned.I have to admit that I miss certain aspects of this web site. To be honest with you, I really started losing a lot of interest after ColombianoX. He had this strange ability, more than anyone else here, to .....for lack of a better word, keep me in check. It started with his private messages. Next thing you knew, I was defending him. The guy clearly has a calling in diplomacy. I give him credit, because although we disagreed on many things, him being one extreme, the ultimate defender of Colombia, and me, a person.....almost on the opposite end (not quite however we were still able to strike a balance in our postitions, and able to recognize the strenght and weakness in each others point of view.

As to me never changing my position......that's a lot of rubbish. My position is a result of the exagerated sense of security that people promulgagte here.

One of these days, I just might floor everybody here, and provide the links to OP ED opinions that have been published in 2 major newspapers as well as one prestigious law journal wherein a wrote about Colombia from a positive perspective. People will be fainting in disbelief. The problem is I cannot obviously provide the information without disclosing my true idenity......which I do not care to do. MAybe some day I will however.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Nov 19, 2006, 17:56:

A Closet Go Go Team Member, G5? No way, Jose!!!!!!! My point was that you believe in what you believe, just like everyone here on PBH. I dont think anyone here will be able to convince DG of his opinion that Bogota is dangerous to foreigners. I also used Platano as an example as well. We are all pretty much set in our opinions, so the next question is why all the arguing? Maybe we should just respect the opinions of others here on PBH? What a novel idea......Agree to Disagree?...i agree with some of your other positions, just not the security issue. But will you ever convince me or I you to change positions on that issue? Probably not...

On positive issues that you mentioned, my comments were directed toward your position with regards to security issues only. I am quite sure that you are not an anti-Colombian Colombian!

You can always cut-and paste the articles without reference points....i, for one, like to read positive things about Colombia...


Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo...Listo!! Libertad!!!...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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rocinante says on Nov 19, 2006, 18:18:

just delete this thread too A good debate usually gets deleted. The internet is a tough place to argue a point

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

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goin_south says on Nov 19, 2006, 20:04:

Possibly,... The Unknown Comic? G5 writes: "problem is I cannot obviously provide the information without disclosing my true idenity......"

"Tengo mucha compasión para el loro."

REMEMBER 'THE GONG' SHOW. (I think it's what we need here on PBsH; just a moderator with a Gong.... make stupid or derogatory comments, and you get gonged. Turn-up the volume...jeje) Juanpbadillo,...meet G5.

Ciao! Gustav. Bienvenitos, Ike.

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utopiacowboy says on Nov 19, 2006, 20:42:

Speak for yourself, I am "obsessed with cheap sex, hookers, drugs, and Elmo". Take that away from PBSH and what have you got left? Boring threads about ATM machines and cheap phone calls. Hell there wouldn't be any point to screwing around on this site in study hall.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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utopiacowboy says on Nov 19, 2006, 21:38:

"Maybe we should just respect the opinions of others here on PBH?" What! And spoil all the fun of PBSH? Insulting each other is what we do best. Mutual respect is for grownups. Y tu mama tambien!

G5, no good can ever come of disclosing your identity no matter how temporarily satisfying that might be. In the long run, it would be a bad idea.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Nov 19, 2006, 21:51:

Colombia gets bashed enough, and doesnt need your help, UTC your dry humour is often times very funny. Its the overkill with regards to violence in Colombia and your contempt for people you refer to as "dumb ass gringos" of which you exclude yourself, which may or may not be justified.

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo...Listo!! Libertad!!!...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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utopiacowboy says on Nov 19, 2006, 22:03:

Soy El Rey de los Pendejos Gringos. Y muerte a todos de ellos en Colombia! Gotta hit the sack, dudes - school tomorrow.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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goin_south says on Nov 19, 2006, 22:09:

to Juanpbd Podborski wrote: "And I can't believe anyone (juanpbdll) thinks that anything said here influences world opinion of colombia...I mean come on..."

HEY PETER, WHILE YOU'RE HAVING SO MUCH FREAKIN FUN IN BOGOTA, maybe you could tell us:
How many members have registered on PBH, en total?
How many registered members have actually written an origianl post?
How many have returned to the site, more than 10 times after registering?
How many have returned over 100 times after registering?
How many have written more than 100 times on the site?
How many have been kicked off the site?
(Puedo pensar a dos, pronto!)

Where's that little counter at the bottom of the page that so many sites have, to count the number of visits to a page; it would be more telling, though to have it count the number of NEW VISITS to the site.

"Tengo mucha compasión para el loro."

Ciao! Gustav. Bienvenitos, Ike.

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. says on Nov 19, 2006, 22:34:

I am not saying that we do not accept to be judged, the head of my post says..."If you argue correctly, you will never be wrong", and any one including the rest of the world will accept any judgement, m wife judges me most of the time, but she knows how to do it, and after that, I accept any CONSTRUCTIVE suggestions coming from her.

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goin_south says on Nov 19, 2006, 23:12:

We'd like further commentary, juanpb: m wife judges me most of the time, but she knows how to do it,
does she 'do it' in a black robe?

Ciao! Gustav. Bienvenitos, Ike.

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Gomezman5 says on Nov 20, 2006, 00:37:

UC......thanks and I agree I may be suckered into things from time to time, but there isn't anyone on this forum that could sucker me into anything, which includes revealing my idenity. With these clowns? huh.

But the irony is one of the few people I do have respect for on this forum, UC, is the guy who warns me about revealing my idenity. Me admiration for him is obviously not misplaced.

I swear, when I got here 2 years ago, there weren't nearly as many goofs as there are today. Oh well......I think its time to disappear for another 3 weeks to a month. I wonder if the next time that I check in, I'll be the subject of some other goofy thread that debates how to argue.........

See ya all later

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goin_south says on Nov 20, 2006, 01:15:

Never. jaunp.
Never.
just like Chavez. los Colombianos want that gringo dinero, y mas, mas pronto.

Ciao! Gustav. Bienvenitos, Ike.

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Miguel says on Nov 20, 2006, 01:18:

"Good bye every one" ...to be continued...?

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Miguel_Clavo says on Nov 20, 2006, 15:12:

Dont flatter yourself, G5, the reality is that no one noticed your absence..........chao!

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo...Listo!! Libertad!!!...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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goin_south says on Nov 21, 2006, 00:03:

Not even the parrot "Tengo mucha compasión para el loro."

Ciao! Gustav. Bienvenitos, Ike.

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Nov 21, 2006, 05:20:

I never wrong :P
I never wrong :P

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podborski says on Nov 21, 2006, 16:37:

jajaja kat your slightly imperfect english makes you even funnier. Please don't change that.

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goin_south says on Nov 21, 2006, 17:28:

when she starts leaving out the 'r' s, then we'll know: she's pulling her hair back, way too tight ;)

Ciao! Gustav. Bienvenitos, Ike.

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