I would like some basic info on Military Conscription

tomtom33 says on Jun 25, 2005, 07:36:

I doubt that there is much of a problem for the government or other factions to recruit. When you have no food and they do, you join. I have heard nothing about kidnapping young boys.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Jun 25, 2005, 08:15:

Other factions Colombia has compulsary service for all young men at 18, but it appears that it's pretty easy to buy your way out of. There are also options of doing "public service" in other ways if you are a conscientious objector.

If you really want to learn about how the guerillas and paramilitaries recruit kids, this report from Human Rights Watch is really disturbing and sad but seems totally believable.

http://www.hrw.org/reports/2003/colombia0903/

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goosekirk says on Jun 28, 2005, 15:44:

Service Military service is compulsory for all males. Here's some info...

Standard practice for all the families that can afford it is to pay about US$1000 to purchase a military ID card from a corrupt Army officer. The card 'proves' you served your time. This is very common and easily done, although considerably expensive. For most people, there's not much pride or honor in serving with the military, and for many people you're either too poor to buy your way out, or a fool for going off to fight for the corrupt government.

A couple times a year, a canvas-walled truck will show up in a given neighborhood, and soldiers will fan out and round up every guy they can get their hands on. Sometimes they'll just pat them down and ask to see the ID cards, or sometimes they'll just throw everyone into trucks and drive them to a nearby post where they'll run all the names through the computer.

If you have a military card but don't have it with you when the soldiers stop you, there's a good chance you'll get thrown into a holding facility for 72 hours, and you better hope your family can find your card and bring it down to the facility to get you out. Otherwise, you might be going to basic training.

If you don't have a card at all, and the computer shows you never served, you're going to basic training - right then, right there.

On days when the army comes around, all the bars close. Nobody wants to be on the streets.

I got stopped by the army along with three Colombian friends, two of whom didn't have their cards with them. As soon as the soldiers figured out from the photocopy of my passport that I was American, they turned all smiles. They patted their rifles and asked if I knew what they were (yeah, American M-16s, buddy - thumbs up!). They told me they were being trained by American advisors, gave me pats on the shoulder, and we were on our way. It was kinda weird.

I know one way the guerilla recruit people for certain jobs they need: they call you and tell you to show up for a certain bus at a certain time, bring a little money for food and a couple changes of clothes, and 'be smart.' More subtle than the army, at least.

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quindioman says on Jun 28, 2005, 17:31:

personal expereince goosekirk seems to know what he's talking about.
I thought it quite apt to share my experience in this thread with the problems I encountered when trying to get my libreta militar.
When i went back home to Colombia in 94 for the third time since being uprooted to London, it was intended as a 3 month vacation June through to the end of August.
I had travelled back home with my passport already expired (i didn't know you could travel with an expired passport...albeit only to the country the passport is from), so I obviously had to renew my passport if I were to fly back to London in September...that gave me 3 months....
I already had my cedula (which i keep losing) and all of the documents needed to renew the colombian passport....except one...yep that bloody libreta militar (and being 18 at the time meant i HAD to have one)
Ok we tried the legit way first...apparently if you are in full-time education abroad you are exempt until you finish the course/diploma/degree. We got all the documents that gave evidence to the fact I was still in f/t education but these guys didn't have any of it.....I lost count how many times me and my padre went up to la 8ba brigada to find out what was going on....my dad reckoned that they wanted their hands greased because they knew i lived abroad and thought we were rich (which is a very common misconception with ppl in colombia)
time passed september came (i missed my flight...missing my formal education but unaware i was about to enrol in the Marijuaneros Sirvepanadas High School) and september passed, so did another 10 months pass before i boarded a plane back to london..In the end we ended up buying it but prices must have rocketed from 94 because we payed medio palo or half a million pesos.
This of course was the last recourse...we had to go and do that in Bogota...8 hours along la linea through Tolima.
Before buying it, I gave some consideration of "presentandome" so i could do my military service..i'm no big fan of any army anywhere including my country's (something I admire about Costa Rica) and i had no plans of enrolling....even though i could have gambled in presentandome and then hoping to fail the medical on my poor eyesight, but this was a gamble I was not prepared to take hence having to buy it in the end.
It was sometime during my stay in colombia 94/95 that i accompanied a friend to this place where the fresh out of schoolers are sent to meet their fate regarding the compulsory military service...the place was like a small theatre and there were scores of young colombian boys ready to become men....i thought events that afternoon quite funny...each colombian was called down individually...... ANDRES HERNAN OSORIO CORTES!
Andres would come on down as if the price was right and pick a ball from bowl (unbelievable but you pick what happens to you for the next 18-24 months as if you were drawing the world cup groups...ahh yes Romania get Brazil in Group 1 and you Andres get the National Police)
Check this though...there are a few "lucky" balls...if you draw one of the lucky balls you don't need to do Military Service and you still get your military card....i think there was about 3 or 4 lucky balls and each time it was drawn that colombian WANTED and INSISTED on doing military service...i found this quite interesting.
The places they could have gone were :
National Police
Military Police
Prison Guards
I haven't heard about the conscientious objector one but that's not to sya it ain't true
OK what Goosekirk said about the military coming roung your way in a big truck is 100% right...i should know, i've had to dissapear pretty fast in more than one occassion....fortunately my barrio ain't changed much in that time and being the young nimble athlete i was back then they would have had better chance of finding a gringo waving benjamins in Calle Cartucho than me in el zuldemayda...i'm actually laughing when i recall an incident where we were in quite possible one if not the worse parts of Armenia...way deep inside el Barrio Santander (that's the barrio to the right of the terminal when you get into Armenia by bus) where the marijuana and basuko are sold...and dress code is strictly trainers that talk more than that irritating muppet on coke, shorts that looked like had been used by zorro to warm up, and a top...the more holes the better.
We were killing a few cells that night, as we did everynight, braincells, liver cells, man we were the cell assasins!....when out of the blue we heard la patruya......get the ftumch out of dodge as the say my friend.....we were actually on top of a little mond and they came up from behind...i ended up rolling down the little hill doing some damage to the local banana/plantain trees but i'd rather that than getting taken by the military.
Mind you....if you ok and not doing anything shady you could just stay and show em your papers...that's happened to me a few times as well...like last august in Cali...the military pulled up a big truck across the raod from where my uncle lives (barrio jardin )....it was about 7 in the evening...i was on my way to see my one and only, and i was walking towards them....one of them looked at me and signalled me with his rifle to step aside...i duly obliged...a quick search followed...hands against the wall...cedula? tome viejo.....you're from armenia...what are you doing here? visiting my uncle sir.....libreta militar? aqui esta.....officer gave me back my documents looking rather pissed i was legit.
I can't say anything about guerilla or paramilitaries as i don't really know too much about how they recruit but i do know that small pueblos are fertile grounds for recruitment.

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goosekirk says on Jun 28, 2005, 17:53:

cockney Thanks for the stories - very interesting!

One thing I'm curious about: how do you actually purchase the card? Do you go down to the brigade headquarters with a nice fat envelope of cash? Is it all very sneaky, or is it pretty much out in the open? How do you know which officer to see to conduct the transaction?

I'm surprised that the guys who picked the "lucky ball" still wanted to serve. Nearly all of my Colombian friends have very strong feelings about not wanting to be in the army. What was the general attitude among your friends about it?

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Jun 28, 2005, 18:09:

Does anyone know what the Colombian Army pays? Are the pay scales online somewhere?

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Mr. Hollywood says on Jun 28, 2005, 18:49:

Great stories! thanks for your tales, cockney-Colombian.

On an aside, I read a piece last weekend in Seman or Cambio about the Colombian defence minister and why so many people in congress want to be rid of him even though he's showing good results.

One of the reasons, and one of the laws he proposed that congress killed, was a law that would determine which young men served in the military purely by lottery. In other words, much like the old US draft worked where you'd get a lot number and then they'd start drafting people with low numbers.

Apparently Colombia's congress didn't like the idea of such an egalitarian way of deciding who serves because they prefer to be able to do "favors" and exercise influence with their constituents.

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Veronica22 says on Jun 29, 2005, 08:18:

you dont have to do it if you are a teen father.
my cousin and his girlfriend and i went out to town and it was quite quiet that night which was a bit odd and and the reason was because the military van was there, grabbing boys. my cousin saw the van too late and he tried to run but they stopped him. they asked how old he was and he said '18'. they wanted to know why he wasnt doing service and then they were going to bundle him in the van when his girlfriend shouted 'no you can't, he's the father of my baby!!!!' i was like 'what!' but i didnt say anything because i didnt know she was pregnant.
then she continued saying 'i'm 3 months pregnant and he needs to support me' she then started crying and they released him and said 'fine' they left us and went off to chase another boy down the street. when they had gone i turned to them and i saw them smiling. i said 'i didnt know you were pregnant' and then i was going to start shouting at my cousin and she said 'i was lying.....'
i didnt know what to say but all i can say is she is an amazing actress and my cousin is lucky to have her

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caslug says on Jun 29, 2005, 12:42:

Maybe that exlains why.. there's sooo many teen mothers in COL, the DRAFT is to blame. The young girls were just trying to help their 18 yr boyfriend at the time avoid conscription. It's too bad, many guys leave the girl to be single mother afterward.

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quindioman says on Jul 3, 2005, 03:15:

goosekirk to purchase the card you really need "una flecha" a contact that will st the whole thing up for you.
Fortunately my dad knows one or two people back in Quindio. I think it was a retired Military official that still had ties inside.
We payed him the money one day over coffee in a discreet panaderia around the corner from la plaza bolivar (armenia).
We just had to go to Bogota to pick the card up, no more money to pay.
On the lucky ball thing. I think that these guys actually wanted to serve I do recall their body language and they were dead set on doing the service...I think these guys actually wanted to make a career out of it.
It all depends on the individual....i'm guessing that the type of Colombian i relate to is a few estratos beneath the type of Colombians you relate to. Middle class colombians might see it as an inconvenience or just don't want to do it.
The pipol i know don't really have opportunities much less a decent/stable job...if the army/police offer them at least a basic salary and a job then they would take it.
My cousin (who makes me look like someone out of the Brady bunch) went to join the army...ended up contrcting hiv and now he's on a nice little compensation packet...he is one of the wealthiest bums i know (well for at least 2 days a month).

Veronica..i think your cousin deserves an oscar nomination, i'm actually surprised they showed some sympathy.....if that would have happened anywhere else that guy would have been on that truck faster than speedy gonzales on speed.

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poco says on Jul 3, 2005, 07:51:

Not willing to fight with the possibility of dying,, hummm,, typical thinking of many, let someone else shoulder the burdens to obtain freedom and increase security under law.

Who I wonder will it be,,,,

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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