I want the U.S. going there

utopiacowboy says on Jan 5, 2006, 11:19:

I don't want that. I want the US to get the hell out of Colombia.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

toneloc24 says on Jan 5, 2006, 11:38:

Dude Pick up a gun and get to it yourself. Go to any Army/Navy store and get your gear, then have at it. Leave the US military out of it. Don't you think their hands are full already?

Let Colombia fight its own battles and war.

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

DayTripper says on Jan 5, 2006, 12:44:

Maybe after Iraq is done.... Alejandro, maybe if Mr. Bush has finished his job in Iraq he can go to Colombia. But well, that could take a while.

juancegomez says on Jan 5, 2006, 16:59:

... I'd want the U.S. to scale back its presence, in a reasonable manner, yet actually provide a more balanced form of aid than it currently does.

A U.S. invasion, so to speak, is not only unrealistic and unnecessary but potentially very counterproductive for all parties involved.

juancegomez says on Jan 5, 2006, 17:33:

... Well, some money's already being spent on that. Not enough, but then again our economy is only at slightly above acceptable levels, not in the middle of a mesmerizing bonanza.

And, unfortunately, given that our economic realities are eventually going to become unstable, and that then we'll pay a larger price when that happens than either the U.S. or Europe, that is hardly something easy to do.

Not to mention that the free trade agreement being negotiated with the U.S., if it manages to pass both our Congresses that is, isn't exactly going to work without plenty of "growing pains", at the very least.

Sr Tertius says on Jan 5, 2006, 17:35:

Alejandro Once thing is to assume the coward position of having a foreign nation do your job, trading sovereignty for a cheap sense of safety. To compound it by picking the one nation that showed better than any other that your idea is also counterproductive, attains levels of stupidity rarely seen. And, of course, you couldn't forget the offensive ingredient of assuming the same cowardice and stupidity on everyone else.

I'm with toneloc. If you think war is the answer, your only moral and logical action is to pick a gun, join the paracos, the army, go commando, or something like that. Yelling to be invaded is pathetic, and embarrases me as a Colombian.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

bufalo says on Jan 5, 2006, 20:34:

I agree with everything here so far. I´ve heard several colombians say they want the US here to kick ass. then I tell them that they´d have to go through US checkpoints, maybe have their house accidentally raided, all the negatives of having a foreign country come in and kick ass, they didn´t like it too much. And what about the first innocent civilian killed, the same people would then want the US out of Colombia.
I actually ran into some gringos in Santa Marta a few years ago, definitely not selling boy scout cookies, really scary people.. I definitely would not want more of them here.

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

silviat says on Jan 6, 2006, 10:06:

Alejandro What has been written here pretty much reflects my opinion. I think the US is already far more involved than it should in our country...

platano says on Jan 6, 2006, 11:28:

Alejandro, I am in agreement with bufalo, Silviat, and all the others who want less USA military presence in Colombia. plátano

plátano

landcruiser77 says on Jan 6, 2006, 11:38:

you don't want usa there so,keep crying all of you babies,because for sure my colombian military force is doing nothing against this 23 thousand of stupid asshole with guns.
keep trusting in our colombian goverment,i hope colombia can resist another 40 years OF CONVERSATIONS AND MEETINGS WITH THIS JERKS.

I WANT EVEN CHINA OR RUSSIAN THERE,WHOEVER WHO CAN HELP

£æ

Tinto (Moderator) says on Jan 6, 2006, 11:47:

My broken record: More and better-paid COLOMBIAN soldiers and more and better-paid COLOMBIAN police (that answer to a municipality head; enough with this failed Latin American model of militarized, and often corrupt, national police).

landcruiser77 says on Jan 6, 2006, 11:52:

I BET NOBODODY HERE ..KNOWS like me,what in the world want the guerrillas and paramilitares, i know something this criminals have guns and they want you to obey them!!!
and they fighting for democracy???
comunist doesn't work in any part of the planet!!!,cuba and rusia for example.they broke and no money like before
they are kidnnaping people,but they doing this because they want democracy???
they're a group of lazy people,laughing of you people!! all the way to the bank to put the money they get for the narco- terrorism.
you don't want usa there,then reject all the money (plan colombia) and helicopters and all that s***t and do it for yourself.
my colombian people make guerillas a excuse for do nothing and spend money and a excuse for political figures to sell chaos and fear and then get more money from other goverments.
this is not good,because while we fighting against our own people,others country like venezuela,chile,argentina they're making economic progress and gaining economic power too.
but it's ok,we want to sit and talk and talk and talk with this criminals,keep talking people of the goverment,keep talkin ya.BY THE WAY FARC you need to shut up and look forward for peace,IRAQ AND HUSSEIN may SAY SOMETHING TO YOU FARC.maybe because of you FARC colombia can be invaded...keep spreading terrorism farc you turn is already coming!!
F=feos
A=amargados
R=rateros
C=cobardes

£æ

platano says on Jan 6, 2006, 13:19:

You want help from communists? I WANT EVEN CHINA OR RUSSIAN THERE,WHOEVER WHO CAN HELP

Does that mean you would welcome help from Venezuela, Bolivia and Cuba, too?

plátano

Tinto (Moderator) says on Jan 6, 2006, 13:21:

I want to play this game, too! Raúl Reyes:



F Fat

A Alcoholic

R Ratbag

C Cocalero

platano says on Jan 6, 2006, 13:28:

FARC F flatulentes
A asquerosos
R rudos
C cretinos

plátano

juancegomez says on Jan 6, 2006, 13:33:

.. Obviously the "romantic image" that the guerrillas want to project is definitely a complete fabrication. That, however, doesn't make them inhuman monsters, for the most part.

Though I agree that, if it weren't for our current conflict, we could actually be taking care of more important matters in a much more efficient way (or at least attempt to do so).

EDIT: Bah...for what it's worth:

F = Fracasados
A = Atrasados
R = Retardatarios
C = Contraproducentes

platano says on Jan 6, 2006, 13:36:

juancegomez, The sudden availability of additional material resources due to a diversion of funds from the ongoing conflict does not necessarily imply any improvement of social or economic conditions given the propensity for corrupt economic behavior on the part of far too many people.

plátano

Sr Tertius says on Jan 6, 2006, 13:42:

This is fun! F = Fight with
A = Acronyms what
R = Reasoning
C = Can't

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

Sr Tertius says on Jan 6, 2006, 13:44:

More! A = Acronyms
U = Unlikely to be
C = Creative

E = Even
L = Lamer
N = Name

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

Sr Tertius says on Jan 6, 2006, 13:45:

Does Uribe have an "F" somewhere? y'know.... for FAILURE!

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

platano says on Jan 6, 2006, 13:51:

FARC F fastidiosos
A avariciosos
R repugnantes
C crueles

plátano

juancegomez says on Jan 6, 2006, 14:01:

platano:

"The sudden availability of additional material resources due to a diversion of funds from the ongoing conflict does not necessarily imply any improvement of social or economic conditions given the propensity for corrupt economic behavior on the part of far too many people."

That's true, strictly speaking.

However, there will likely be sudden availability of additional political space for discussion and, ultimately, a resulting increase of public pressure.

With the conflict out of the way, the predominant "security or else" platform will tend to lose, in the long run, its importance.

This will eventually improve the level of the debate of the most important problems that Colombia still has to face.

Those conditions may well create an environment that, eventually, may make it possible for a better (slightly better even) set of people to be elected. Not without going through a few hoops, but sooner or later, things may improve.

That's what I hope, but of course it's just a prediction for now.

utopiacowboy says on Jan 6, 2006, 22:40:

Definitely the most amusing Politics & the War thread ever. Great acronyms, guys! Very entertaining!

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

paz_para_colombia says on Jan 6, 2006, 23:10:

I agree The Americans have helped heaps i just want them to go in there and kick the ass out of the Guerilla! Colombia has waited too long for this and deserves it. I and i know many have families there and everyday i dread hearing a phone call in the morning that it mite jsut be that some one was kidnapped or killed. I don't think any real colombian would mind raids in there house if it means their safety is at hand.PEACE OUT!!!

VIVA COLOMBIA

VIVA COLOMBIA!!! LETS KICK THE GUERILLA'S OUT OF THE MOST BEAUTIFUL PLACE IN THE WORLD!!

vladimiro says on Jan 7, 2006, 07:29:

US military in Colombia The Americans went into Afghanistan and put the country's war lords into the new government, drug production increased, Colombian-style narcoterrorism is on the rise and plagueing nieghboring countries. If the US got deeply involved in Colombia they would most likely just throw the country into chaos and walk away. Its not likely any way because to paraphrase Rumsfeld: there are no good economic targets in Colombia.

platano says on Jan 7, 2006, 07:48:

don't think any real colombian would mind raids in their house? You don't think any real colombian would mind raids in their house?

Do you know how the Americans do these raids? They go house to house and in the middle of the night they kick the doors in. They put hoods over peoples' heads, terrorize families, kidnap innocent people (ask the German chancellor) and take innocents off to gulags to be tortured.

You want a network of those kind of secret prisons to be set up in Colombia? You want the barrios of Colombian cities to be terrorized to find the FARC militias and kick their ass? You have no idea what you are inviting into Colombia. Yanquis go home! Colombia for Colombians!

plátano

Sr Tertius says on Jan 7, 2006, 08:50:

The lack of memory... "I don't think any real colombian would mind raids in there house"

Oh, really?? Hmmm... I remember some 13 years ago, I believe, a little inicident in the resort town of Juanchaco, where unarmed US marines came in to help build a school. Public opinion in Colombia wouldn't even tolerate that. But someone knocking down your door, pointing an assault rifle at you and taking your brother for interrogation... that'd be okay.

Tinto: You know that's exactly what's going to happen ;)

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

platano says on Jan 7, 2006, 10:44:

Elmo's moving to Bolivia? I sure hope he has an internet connection there.

plátano

landcruiser77 says on Jan 7, 2006, 10:45:

UNITED NATIONS GO THERE And KICK SOME ASS my stupid colombian goverment is too busy collecting and spending money in war agaisnt 23 thounsand little fu at ###ers and s***t
please usa and other nations don't send more money,so the political figures and goverment oficials can't buy new cars and spend money in themself,traveling the world to collect more money from other people.i have a question!!!why the politicos in colombia are rich,armor new cars,nice security houses,the best thing in colombia,we need polticos with out money ,with no armor vehicles, so they can feel the heat and scare of the normal people like us
WE NEED A PERSON LIKE MICHAEL MOORE TO MAKE A DOCUMENTARY HONEST AND TRULY CLEAR ABOUT OUR GOVERMENT.
I WONDERING WHY WHE THE PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES WENT TO COLOMBIA,THE GUERRILLAS SHUT UP AND DON'T MAKE ANY KIND OF TROUBLE.
because they already know how is your daddy,fellows please wake-up you know already U.S.A CAN KICK SOME ASS there .im proud to be colombian and american resident,soon i'll be citizen,but im still worried about my beloved country.
like a high rank u.s army official said in the news 8 years ago:
we can solve the 40 years colombia rebels problems in couple weeks.
shame on you colombia,we need to get together stop thinking and start acting.
i already know ,usa can be watching this asshole in their holes in to the jungles,with satellite spy photos and infra-red scan,that's is for sure,

£æ

utopiacowboy says on Jan 7, 2006, 17:16:

I am all in favor of sending Michael Moore to Colombia. Just don't send him back.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

bufalo says on Jan 7, 2006, 17:29:

I actually contacted Moore´s office about Colombia once before. It was about how, I think it was Sony records, put out a new CD by the then encarcelated (probably spelled that wrong) rapist, murderer, and all around vallenato fave Diomedez Diaz. They never got back to me. And that asshole Diaz still walks the planet with those plastered lips of his.

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

jalf12 says on Jan 20, 2006, 19:12:

"You Can't Help Someone Who Won't Help Themselves" I must be bluntly honest on this subject. My suegro is a firm hater of American Global politics (and I can't blame him). I have read books he has given me about how the money the U.S. has given to Colombia ends up back in our own pockets. Seriously, our Presidents are businessmen. When we give Blackhawk helicopters to Colombia, we buy them from American firms or give our old Vietnam ones that need repaired by American firms. When Bush buys weapons for Colombia he is probably buying them from a firm that is in the mutual fund of the Carlyle Group (of which his father is chairman) and when we help dust a crop of cocaine, we make sure another two go up somewhere else to keep feeding the drug culture in the US. So first, don't think that U.S. aid is the answer for Colombia.
Second, if you are Colombian, realize that only Colombians can fix their problems. After much internal debate (and even a bit of guilt), reading such books as "Con las Manos en Alto", I came to the undeniable conclusion; Colombians are screwing Colombians. Although corrupt US politics may have a hand in the Colombian pie, it is a corrupt Colombian that helped them. If every able man in Colombia were willing to die to elevate his country, Colombia wouldn't need help from anyone. But too many (maybe too tired from poverty) are willing to sell out their country to the highest bidder. So follow others advice if you are fed up with the war in Colombia, pick up a gun, join the army, and fight to the death for what you believe. God knows the U.S. had its civil war (over tariffs not slavery) and brothers fought brothers; but they fought to the death and we are what we are (be it good or bad), thanks to love of our own country. Remember Skybroken, actions speak louder than words, if your sky is broken: fix it. But don’t expect others to do it for you.

aztec says on Jan 25, 2006, 05:33:

"Taxpayer Colombia ends up back in our own pockets." ...Please, Please, Please, No more U.S. Taxpayer funds sent by "corrupt US politics" to Colombia.

My family can better use the money!

juancegomez says on Jan 25, 2006, 09:53:

Not exactly "sent...to Colombia" A sizable amount of those funds go right into the pockets of U.S. companies or contractors, in one way or another.

aztec says on Jan 27, 2006, 08:07:

Reduce... ...U.S. Personal Income tax rates enough so there is not "A sizable amount of those funds go right into the pockets of U.S. companies or contractors, in one way or another."

If there is no confiscated taxpayer earnings to reallocate in a transfer of the wealth scheme you and I will both be satisfied!

jccg says on Jan 27, 2006, 08:28:

JAjajaja! Jajajaj jejeje "AND KICK SOME ASS TO THE GUERILLAS
STOP THE HYPOCRESY,I KNOW YOU WANT THAT"
Yes, it could be with Stallone or with Arnold (althoug he allready do one) full of spetial effects and music, making war look as fun!!

OR... we can return to real life, were the gringos are humans like anyone else... dude... you really need to stop watching movies!

This is just the true!!

landcruiser77 says on Jan 27, 2006, 15:49:

yeah you too!!!!!!! does iraq and hussein say something to you!!!!!!!!
that was a whole nation ,the guerrillas are a bunch of assholes hidden like rats in several mountains ,maybe 12.000 thousand!nothing imposible you fool

£æ

jccg says on Jan 29, 2006, 13:10:

jejeje.... ¿are you suggesting to drop a couple of atomic bombs over the amazonia and the mountains and cities? dude you are a geniuns!!

This is just the true!!

jccg says on Jan 29, 2006, 13:14:

By the way... Iraq fight adirect war, and they loose it, now they are figthing a guerrillas war.... Vietnam fought a guerrillas war and they get free... Colombia is suffering a guerrillas war and we have 40 year on it. A guerrillas war is almost "unwinable", (Vietnam "won" because USA get tiered, not by been military supperior)
¿what? you have no idea what a guerrilla is?, so go check for the dictionary and history books
jejeje...

This is just the true!!

cali373 says on Jan 31, 2006, 11:18:

You guys are still feeding this stupid post. There is no money to be made by defeating an insurgency. the money is made by making it drag out for 40 more years.

Smile if you are a thinker!

juancegomez says on Jan 31, 2006, 12:43:

"the money is made by making it drag out for 40 more years."

Have you actually proven that it's necessarily the case and that any other hypothesis is flawed and incompatible with it?

I'd like to see a serious statistical analysis myself.

Wastelandlive says on Feb 1, 2006, 19:02:

All depends on who's making the money, I suppose. MOTO

Wasteland