I suppose some of you will say that Consuela Gonzalez is a traitor

cassini77 says on Jan 12, 2008, 04:32:

Clara and Consuelo confirm that military operations retarded their deliverance.
Are they traitors, because if what they say is true, it means that Uribe is a liar?

http://www.telesurtv.net/secciones/noticias/nota/23066/clara-y-consuel...

PALEOLITICO says on Jan 12, 2008, 04:58:

Y todavia CHAVEZ dice que las FARC no son terroristas!!!. Es que no hay derecho.. qué se necesita entonces para ser terrorista?? porque es que a mi la imaginación no me da para concebir mas maldad.

"Amar a las personas y usar las cosas; y no amar a las cosas y usar a las personas"

robi666 says on Jan 12, 2008, 05:02:

Cassini, why would someone think that she's a traitor? For what? Por lo que indicó que el presidente Hugo Chávez puede jugar un papel fundamental?

Of course there were troupes, they walked for 20 days. There is a difference between stop military operations and "realizar un despeje". What did you think? That they were going to retire all the troupes from southern Colombia? Come on...
Maybe we should give a definition of military operation.

Anyway she said: Por otra parte, confirmó que durante la caminata de 20 días que tuvieron que realizar en la selva del sureste de Colombia hasta donde se concretó la liberación, había helicópteros "por un lado y por el otro" y que encontraron "dificultades para pasar".
She talks about a military presence and nothing more, even though a journalis tries to make her say more.
He's clearly a BIG BASTARD of the VTV, Eduardo Silveira. You can hear him talking, putting unnecessary statements in the middle of his question, to make her say what she clearly didn't want to say.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rC8-HY07_1k

And of course, telesur translated it in military operations. Propaganda.

Bring in a telesurtv article is not the smarter thing to do to judge events.
I really cannot understand your war on PBH.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

elk says on Jan 12, 2008, 06:06:

The FARC and Chavez are one and the same. They have the same goals..."control by force". Chavez would love one day to have the FARC in control of Colombia. Chevez is a spreading "cancer" that needs to be removed along with the FARC!

Uribe is correct. Release all the hostages and then we can talk. The FARC is nothing more than an organization for drug dealing, kidnapping and murder. If Uribe gives in the problems will only continue with increased kidnappings and violence. Uribe is applying the pressure and keeping the bastards contained...what other choice does he have?

Just my two cents......

"The FARC did this as a political gift to Chavez, not because they have come to any agreement with the Colombian government," said a Bogota-based diplomat who asked not to be named.

"What's new is that Chavez has a direct and very public line of communication with the FARC. Meanwhile he and Uribe are not even talking," the diplomat said. "Chavez now has better relations with the Colombian insurgency than with the Colombian government. That's an ugly situation, diplomatically."

Uribe, whose father was killed in a botched FARC kidnapping in the 1980s, was reelected in 2006 after cutting crime and bolstering the economy with his U.S.-backed security push.

tasco66 says on Jan 12, 2008, 06:17:

Cassini if the Farc had kidnapped a member of your family and kept him or her in the conditions described above…how would you qualify the Farc?

Bravo, Presidente Uribe for the perfect operation!

robi666 says on Jan 12, 2008, 06:21:

One thing I know. If I was a Colombian who had one of the family killed or kidnapped by FARC, I'd know my place would be right there with Mancuso and the others, or still fighting en el monte. And Chavez and Piedad Cordoba would be declared "objectivos militares". Asi es sencillo.

So, I understand Colombians on this board and their anger. They are good person and I sympathize with them.
Que respeten, por dios!

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

MitchAlvarez says on Jan 12, 2008, 06:27:

No al despeje!!!!!!!!!!! No a la liberacion de criminales!!!!!!!!!! No la mierda expansionista de Chavez y las ratas de la FARC!!!!!!

Adelante Presidente...mate a esos hp.

Tengale miedo a una huelga de mujeres o a una escasez de aguardiente. :)

bamacellist says on Jan 12, 2008, 07:37:

I for one don't beleieve it mattered in a material way. This operation was named after the boy. He was the poster child for the release. It's absolutely unbelievable that they would have released just the two women. What would they have said??? Chavez was, unless he's lying, unaware the boy wasn't with the Farc. He said that if Uribe's claim turned out to be true that that would make the Farc look very very bad in the eyes of the world. (Whatever happened to that?) They were delayed as they waited to recover the boy. Simple as that.

I still believe that had Uribe not come forward with this information the Farc would have happily killed Clara and Consuelo in the jungle and claimed that the three hostages were "lamentably" killed in an ambush by the army. What better way to get themselves out of a mess, generate outrage against Uribe and sympathy for themselves and Chavez's agenda? And who can say this wouldn't be true to form? Uribe took the risk of looking foolish by exposing this information and letting the Farc know this wasn't going to fly. That may be why they're free today.

"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."

Ctg Bound says on Jan 12, 2008, 07:44:

cassini77, NO military operations should be cancelled, you can't deal with terrorists, just kill as many as possible, which then pushs the others in giving up.

There should be little softly softly approach, just extermination, pure and simple.

tasco66 says on Jan 12, 2008, 08:10:

al-Qaida killed four French tourists:

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jtIC_6LWHqXWKkcAOrarQSywUKdAD8U3U0V...

Cassini please tell us how do you feel about this?

Bravo, Presidente Uribe for the perfect operation!

cassini77 says on Jan 12, 2008, 08:17:

Al Qaida exists because of the USA politics in the world, especially in Palestina.
If Ben Laden did not exist, Busch would have invented him.
They have a hand in.

tasco66 says on Jan 12, 2008, 08:32:

so you are blaming the death of four French tourists on USA politics in the world?

Are you also going to tell us that that French foreign policy is perfect? Remind us how many Algerians you have tortured and killed in the last century?

Didn’t you guys used to call the FLN maquisards "terrorists" when you were occupying Algeria?

Bravo, Presidente Uribe for the perfect operation!

El Polo says on Jan 12, 2008, 08:34:

Im not a fan of sitting back on my a** but realisticly speaking a botched military operation would be disastrous, it would bring world wide condemnation and only supress the insurgency. By sending soldier's in, you not only risk them, but you risk the innocent people who you are fighting for in the first place.

cassini77 says on Jan 12, 2008, 08:38:

Many french people were against the war in Algeria. Some were killed when demonstrating for the peace:

"8 February 1962 Charonne massacre

On 8 February 1962, another demonstration against the OAS, which had been prohibited by the state, was repressed at Charonne metro station. Nine members of the CGT trade union, most of them communists, were killed by the police forces, directed by the same Maurice Papon under the same government, with Roger Frey as Minister of Interior, Michel Debré as Prime minister and Charles de Gaulle as president, who did all they could to "dissimulate the scale of the 17 October crime" (Jean-Luc Einaudi[26]). The funerals on 13 February 1962 of the nine persons killed (among them, Fanny Dewerpe) were attended by hundreds of thousands of people.[27][28][29]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_massacre_of_1961#8_February_1962_Ch...

tasco66 says on Jan 12, 2008, 08:46:

There are a lot of Americans that are against the present foreign policy of the USA, and they have made many protests. None have been killed by the US government, what is wrong with France?

By the way, why do you never answer my questions?

Bravo, Presidente Uribe for the perfect operation!

cassini77 says on Jan 12, 2008, 09:11:

Because you disgust me.

tasco66 says on Jan 12, 2008, 09:27:

Sounds more to me like the truth disgusts you!

Bravo, Presidente Uribe for the perfect operation!

elk says on Jan 12, 2008, 09:57:

Ctg Bound:

For once I agree with you! Open season on the FARC and good hunting....
Perhaps someone can catch Sr. Chavez in the cross fire as he visits his FARC friends.

cassini77 says on Jan 12, 2008, 10:08:

[DELETED]. Participate in a civil manner or don't participate at all.

Well so you agree with elk inciting to murder Chavez.

tasco66 says on Jan 12, 2008, 10:13:

Oh boy, Cassini now wishing the death of PBH members, this is as low as it gets

Bravo, Presidente Uribe for the perfect operation!

tasco66 says on Jan 12, 2008, 10:13:

Cool down Cassini..

Bravo, Presidente Uribe for the perfect operation!

tasco66 says on Jan 12, 2008, 10:44:

I am glad that was deleted, it was getting pretty ugly here.

Bravo, Presidente Uribe for the perfect operation!

Ctg Bound says on Jan 12, 2008, 11:22:

cassini77, the media estimate that FARC has 750 kidnap victims.

The FARC executed the 8 congress men a few months ago, the FARC have orders to execute ANY prisoners if it looks like the military/police get anywhere near them.

Make some nice excuses up for the above.

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jan 12, 2008, 11:34:

they are terrorists, Guerrillas don't exist anymore.

engage brain before opening mouth

Ctg Bound says on Jan 12, 2008, 11:44:

To be a rebel, means that a large percentage of the population has to support them.

Virtually nobody in percentage terms in Colombia supoports FARC, so they can't be rebels, they can only be terrorists.

catherine b says on Jan 12, 2008, 13:21:

"they are terrorists, Guerrillas don't exist anymore." Kat1, I concur.

Rikito says on Jan 12, 2008, 15:40:

cassini only has criticisms and no solutions. he can only denegrate others and others no value. why do people in here patronize him. It's like arguing with a two year old. If anyone in here should be disgusted it is PBH in general in allowing this person to spill his vile all over.

It is not life that matters, but the journey.

Rikito says on Jan 12, 2008, 15:45:

I doubt if Consuelo, etc are traitors, but the way they looked when they were released leaves one to suspect that there is something with these two women. They looked more like they just came back from a shopping trip than years and years in the jungle. I could go on and on here to prove my point, but I am afraid cassini might respond. sorry.

It is not life that matters, but the journey.

Rikito says on Jan 12, 2008, 15:45:

I doubt if Consuelo, etc are traitors, but the way they looked when they were released leaves one to suspect that there is something with these two women. They looked more like they just came back from a shopping trip than years and years in the jungle. I could go on and on here to prove my point, but I am afraid cassini might respond. sorry.

It is not life that matters, but the journey.

catherine b says on Jan 12, 2008, 16:22:

Rikito, I think it's likely that the guerillas took better care of these ladies in the last month or so before releasing them. Remember the world is still outraged about the way Ingrid looks and everything that we've known about the farc but the rest of the international community is just starting to discover. Farc knew images of Clara and Consuelo would be seen around the world. I'm sure farc did'nt want them to appear completely malnourished and weakened.

diabloblas says on Jan 12, 2008, 16:38:

rikito...how come cassisni gets only a one paragraph dressing down when i get 4 or 5...

gatogris says on Jan 12, 2008, 16:49:

It seems like there was a little Stockholm syndrome going on here, but at least, as far as we know, Clara and Consuelo didn't go Patty Hearst and take up arms against the Colombian state. 5 years is a long time, a girl gets lonely out there in them hills...

cassini77 says on Jan 12, 2008, 16:57:

I do not understand why my comment was deleted and not this of Elk asking the murder of Chavez.
In democratic countries the incitement to murder is severely punished by the law and even more severely when it concerns a chief of state. The responsibles of PBH can be prosecuted in many countries for not deleting these incitements. Excogitate it.
Some moderators here are not true moderators and agree with the dangerous crazies who attend PBH.
I suppose that we are witnesses here of what happens too on the french newspapers Internet sites and blogs: a recent lot of posters who insult the others and sing the praises of Uribe. Very strange. I am sure that the uribists have recived orders to infest Internet.

cassini77 says on Jan 12, 2008, 17:02:

What Rikito wrote does me puke.
Same remark as above: responsibles of PBH can be prosecuted if letting this kind of posts.

diabloblas says on Jan 12, 2008, 17:03:

that's the way it is cassini

...i dont have a dog in this fight...but it's amazing the chavez/farc haters...they accuse them of being ruthless & in turn call for their heads.

...oliver stone gets off easy....they just want to punch his lights out

...very caring people these uribe lovers

manINred says on Jan 12, 2008, 17:07:

I will say one thing: Chavez is an incredible politician who maintains a lot of popular support amongst the Venezuelan population. His legitimacy and influence cannot be denied.

catherine b says on Jan 12, 2008, 17:09:

No, the internet is actually infested by PAID Bolivarian Circle/farc supporters/chavistas to spew disinformation to the English speaking world which remains largely ignorant of Latin American history and politics...most would'nt be able to even find Colombia on a map.

Those of us here who oppose the farc and are happy to see a president that has finally weakened them do so out of a legitimate concern and love for Colombia and to counter balance the farc lies/propaganda and hopefully encourage those outside Colombia to do some research and not just accept at face value the disinformation of farc sympathizers.

diabloblas says on Jan 12, 2008, 17:09:

maninred...no doubt in my mind about that both from the legitimate press & casual observation

...but don't try to tell that to bush or pat robertson

cassini77 says on Jan 12, 2008, 17:28:

We are paid by the FARC or by Chavez ? Your arguments are more and more great.
Take some sedative.

catherine b says on Jan 12, 2008, 17:32:

I'm not the one who's calling for the death of fellow PBH members even if they disagree with me or threatening moderators. Ergo, I'm not the one who needs a sedative.

cassini77 says on Jan 12, 2008, 17:37:

And I am not the one who wants murder Chavez or Piedad. Go and pray for your God.

catherine b says on Jan 12, 2008, 17:42:

Hahaha...que loco. When pray tell did I ever call on the murder of Chavez or Cordoba or anyone for that matter?

webmanco says on Jan 12, 2008, 19:42:

El odio contra la bajeza desfigura la cara.

cambiábamos de país como de zapatos
a través de las guerras de clases, y nos desesperábamos
donde sólo había injusticia y nadie se alzaba contra ella.
Y, sin embargo, sabíamos
que también el odio contra la bajeza
desfigura la cara.
También la ira contra la injusticia
pone ronca la voz. Desgraciadamente, nosotros,
que queríamos preparar el camino para la amabilidad
no pudimos ser amables.
Pero vosotros, cuando lleguen los tiempos
en que el hombre sea amigo del hombre,
pensad en nosotros
con indulgencia».

bertold brecht.

But, I'm going to start making some assumptions here.... Which means I might actually end up making an ass out of myself ..........Thu 04 17, 2008 11:34 am

billyb says on Jan 12, 2008, 22:03:

You have to laugh when a froggie talks about traitors, then again their country does lead the world in that category.

billyb says on Jan 12, 2008, 22:16:

tasco66 says on Saturday January 12th, 2008 8:46:

There are a lot of Americans that are against the present foreign policy of the USA, and they have made many protests. None have been killed by the US government, what is wrong with France?

By the way, why do you never answer my questions?


cassini77 says on Saturday January 12th, 2008 9:11:

Because you disgust me.


tasco66 says on Saturday January 12th, 2008 9:27:

Sounds more to me like the truth disgusts you!


elk says on Saturday January 12th, 2008 9:57:

Ctg Bound:

For once I agree with you! Open season on the FARC and good hunting....
Perhaps someone can catch Sr. Chavez in the cross fire as he visits his FARC friends.


cassini77 says on Saturday January 12th, 2008 10:08:

[DELETED]. Participate in a civil manner or don't participate at all.

Well so you agree with elk inciting to murder Chavez.


tasco66 says on Saturday January 12th, 2008 10:13:

Oh boy, Cassini now wishing the death of PBH members, this is as low as it gets


tasco66 says on Saturday January 12th, 2008 10:13:

Cool down Cassini..


tasco66 says on Saturday January 12th, 2008 10:44:

I am glad that was deleted, it was getting pretty ugly here.


Priceless!!!LOL. Let's see, cassini has to edit his comment because it is not civilized, but yet in the next sentence of the very same post he insist others , and i quote, " Participate in a civil manner or don't participate at all."

does anybody else find this high quality comedy? Is it wrong to be laughing at such an obviously disturbed being????

Rikito says on Jan 13, 2008, 05:54:

catherine b, ok so they got primped and quaffed, but… Maybe there is someone in here more experienced as this than me, but I am concerned and more interested about the psyc side. I have seen some prisoners who were recently released from long term captivity in another country. These people looked and acted confused, their speech patterns were not good, they became very upset at their new surroundings, they acted disoriented, the cameras, lights, many people, etc. When these people saw their relatives the wept uncontrollably. They also had a difficult time walking due to the movement around them. Finally, they really looked and acted very scared. I have seen this occurrence in three different countries: Argentina after a 1976 kidnapping, in Greece in the early 90s, and in Saudi in the late 90s. None of these people were tortured, but all of them acted extremely disoriented when released. One person had to be placed on a stretcher. I know of cases that takes years to get back to normal. These two ladies looked like they were getting ready to party with Elmo after they finished their press conference and took calls on CNN.

I'm sorry catherine, but I am not buyin the "I was a prisoner of farc for ‘X’ number of years and I survived." As my 4 year old son said to me one morning after I was drinking beer and eating sausage..."something ninks daddy."

It is not life that matters, but the journey.

catherine b says on Jan 13, 2008, 06:09:

I understand what you're saying Rikito, but I do recall yesterday Consuelo was answering a few questions to either RCN or Caracol and she really REALLY seemed out of it... I think she was probably sedated.

I think it's best to just wait and see. The post traumatic effects may not be visible immediately. These ladies at least Clara are def not defending farc. It's a diificult situation for them to speak freely: they have to think about the hostages that are still in farc's power and what repercussions their words might have on them and they're still in Venezuela which I know a lot of people will take offense for what I'm about to say but Venezuela under Chavez IS farc territory.

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jan 13, 2008, 07:14:

When My brother in law was released, he lost a lot of weight, his face looks very drawn and he was very quite, he did develop a little nervous tick on his hands, he didn't suffered the Stockholm syndrome he hated his captors, he was torture mentally, he was very paranoid when he was released looking over his shoulder, having nightmares. he did have some physiological help, but the kidnapping did affect him a lot. he hasn't been back to Colombia since his released nearly 7 years ago, and he said it will take him a long time to get comfortable in Colombia again.

engage brain before opening mouth

Man Tequila says on Jan 13, 2008, 11:15:

The most famous Cassini was a professor of astronomy at the University of Bologna in the 1600s. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, and some still have their head in the clouds and attend the University of Bologna.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

Tinto (Moderator) says on Jan 13, 2008, 11:28:

Priceless!!!LOL. Let's see, cassini has to edit his comment because it is not civilized, but yet in the next sentence of the very same post he insist others , and i quote, " Participate in a civil manner or don't participate at all."

does anybody else find this high quality comedy? Is it wrong to be laughing at such an obviously disturbed being????

-------------------

a clarification. Those were my comments. I deleted Cassini's words and told him to play by the rules. I guess I failed to sign my name behind the comments.

cassini77 says on Jan 13, 2008, 14:21:

So you are a "moderator"; you should be neutral then. You are not.

athensugadawg says on Jan 13, 2008, 14:28:

Boohoo.....then why don't you just pick up your toys and go find another sandbox to play in....and take some sedative while you're at it...

Tinto (Moderator) says on Jan 13, 2008, 14:42:

Cassini, that's where you are wrong. This is a free site with volunteer moderators. We can have opinions, even strong opinions, as long as we follow the same rules as everyone else. Your post was modified because it contained an insult or a threat of physical violence directed at another member. I don't care if you love Chavez or Uribe or Pedro Marin, but you have to treat other PBH members with a basic level of respect, even if you disagree with them.

diabloblas says on Jan 13, 2008, 14:49:

tinto.. if you modify a post you should notate it....& you should make it well known that you are a moderator

Lcacique says on Jan 13, 2008, 16:33:

"No, the internet is actually infested by PAID Bolivarian Circle/farc supporters/chavistas to spew disinformation to the English speaking world which remains largely ignorant of Latin American history and politics...most would'nt be able to even find Colombia on a map."

Come on catherineb...There is just as much, if not more, disinformation about Colombia being spread by the "rightwing." The majority of the english-speaking world that knows anything about Colombia views the FARC as terrorists. So if there is a huge amount of disinformation being spread, it is not working.

What saddens me is how fractured Colombia is and it is demonstrated continually here on PBH. People angrily condeming the other side while overlooking there own side's shortcomings. I completely understand why a person would feel a violent rage towards the FARC if they lost a relative/friend to them. I also understand how someone could feel the same sort of hate towards the government for its support of rightwing terrorist organizations that also have killed many innocents throughout the years. Personally, I feel for the masses of Colombians that do not identify with either side of this debate. Those who recognize that government corruption is just as damaging to the country as a leftist-insurgent group. But I am just an outsider. And this is nothing more than an outsider's opinion. I can say, that as a US citizen, I feel a certain responsibility for the violence in Colombia because of the role that the US has played there throughout the years (long before the drug war).

The calls for the assassination of Chavéz are silly (and don't think for a second that I support his agenda). Are you suggesting that Colombia carries out the assassination? Or should the US government offer to pay and supply locals to do it like it has done in the past? What is the motivation? Are you concerned about the overall well-being of Venezuelans? Or are you simply angry that he openly disagrees with the US government? Should we make a list of other presidents to kill while we are at it? It has been a long time since we have been succesful at such operations (excluding Noriega's removal from power), can we risk the failure or the backlash? What if some lunatic government decides to off our president because it believes that he is a belligerent leader that invades countries that pose no real threat? Please help me out here, I am trying to understand.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

Rikito says on Jan 13, 2008, 16:41:

so my post was deleted huh? interesting in the face of the ignorance that cassini supplies.

It is not life that matters, but the journey.

catherine b says on Jan 13, 2008, 16:43:

I have to disagree with you. There's more disinformation in English about farc than the government.
I recall when former president Ernesto Samper was involved in that major scandal of his campaign being backed by narco money it was in the US press or a couple of years ago when Gore cancelled his meeting with Uribe because there were accounts of Uribe links to paramilitaries. But when and how often do you find accounts of the atrocities perpetrated by farc in English speaking media?

I've never asked for the assasination of Chavez or anyone else. But he needs reminding that he's the president of Venezuela and ONLY Venezuela.

diabloblas says on Jan 13, 2008, 16:57:

i agree catherineb...& the same goes for bush

Lcacique says on Jan 13, 2008, 18:15:

The US and other english-speaking media outlets are littered with coverage about the atrocities committed by the FARC. In addition, most of the serious books written about Colombia deal with them as well. It is obvious that you are passionate about your position; therefore, it is possible that you tend to notice things that reaffirm your beliefs.

You are correct that there was coverage of the Samper scandal; however, I do not understand what you are getting at by pointing that out. Are you claiming that some of the coverage was disinformation? I thought there was a suitable amount of evidence in the case. I've never read anywhere in a major media source that Uribe HAS connections with the paramilitaries, only that there HAVE been ACCUSATIONS that a connection MIGHT exist. Quite frankly, I think that is newsworthy: A president connected to the most violent terrorist group in the country. Obviously news organizations are going to cover the topic. But I have not read any disinformation in the major sources about the issue.

Keep in mind, that it is much easier for a government to conceal information (I'm not claiming that Uribe is doing this!) and we generally do not find out the truth about government actions until long after the fact. History demonstrates this over and over again.

In the past, the paramilitary was accused of committing the vast majority of abuses (now, with the war on terror they are not needed); therefore, it would make sense that they would get the greatest percentage of media coverage. They did not as far as I am concerned. Much of what I have read in the major sources has been about the FARC's bombing of pipelines, kidnappings and their narco-involvement. Many serious books also deal with the FARC problem as well.

I agree diabloblas.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

Robert Jorge says on Jan 13, 2008, 21:17:

diabloblas: You said to Tinto: "if you modify a post you should notate it....& you should make it well known that you are a moderator." Umm, I thought Tinto being a mod was common knowledge and clearly stated on this site. And he did notate it. Otherwise, how would you have known? He actually typed it as a response in this thread. Short of sending you a written letter, what else could he do?

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

MitchAlvarez says on Jan 13, 2008, 21:33:

Tinto is the man.

Plus I was raised on tinto in the morning, afternoon, and evening.

I dont like my coffee with milk. lol my grandparents messed me up.

Tengale miedo a una huelga de mujeres o a una escasez de aguardiente. :)

diabloblas says on Jan 14, 2008, 17:13:

i stand corrected rj

aztec says on Jan 15, 2008, 07:53:

diabloblas, anyone who has been on the site a while knows who are moderators. While they all are to the left of me in philosophy/politics they by and large refrain from imposing their beliefs on anyone. That does not mean they don't express their opinions.

There was a time when a person or a subject would irritate me. I have since learned to ignore certain attacks or statements because the persons making them usually don't know any better. It is a reflection of the persons intelligence.

diabloblas says on Jan 15, 2008, 08:02:

i see my above admission of fault wasn't enough for you aztec...so i'll go subject myself to some corporal punishment

aztec says on Jan 16, 2008, 08:51:

diabloblas Not necessary. I responded before I saw your comment. Sorry.

gatogris says on Jan 16, 2008, 09:39:

Consuelo was a Liberal congresswoman from Huila, and she had a great career when she was kidnapped. Re-elected by a huge landslide in 1998, a real brass tacks, pragmatic, non-ideological politician dedicated to helping the people in her district, never tied to political corruption of any kind, Consuelo was exactly the kind of politician Colombia needs. Kidnapping her was like when the narcos shot Jaime Garzon in El Patio - a crime not just against a person and their family, but a crime against the political and civic culture of a community and a nation.

I think what angers people most about the FARC is not the violence and atrocities so much as the hypocracy. To claim to have the interests of 'the people' at heart while at every turn undermining the communities' democratic ability to help itself. Claiming to seek to empower the people while constantly robbing them of agency, placing them powerless once again in the hands of one irregular armed group or another, or under the spiked jackboot of the military.

As far as traitorous goes, only a twisted fanatical maniac would accuse Consuelo of such a thing. She was held for so long her husband died, her daughters married and her first grandchild was born. She showed incredible mental toughness in surviving, seemingly without grave trauma. Her strength and resiliency is an inspiration to people all over the world.

diabloblas says on Jan 16, 2008, 09:58:

aztec...what a couple of sorry bastards we are...

...but we're in appropriate company here at pbh

aztec says on Jan 16, 2008, 11:25:

Learning to keep my head down and keep moving.