I need ur opinions....please!!

kernow62 says on Aug 19, 2005, 09:28:

I think only you can answer that question.

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adrimm (☼Travelguide writer) says on Aug 19, 2005, 09:38:

viewpoint says on Aug 19, 2005, 09:43:

The answer to your question must be with you desire for upward mobility in your future and career. If I was twenty-one again and faced with that choice the answer for me would be to stay in the USA and pursue my education in english instead of completing it in spanish. You know exactly what your options are in Colombia with a spanish degree majoring in "Industrial Design". There are throusands of graduating Colombian with this degree seeking too damn few jobs that don't pay all that well. If you have more ambition that settling for that go for this oportunity. Even if "in the end" you return to Colombia possessing that english language degree and being completely (total fluent)in english will open lots of doors for you at much higher compensation.

I have watched my GF's family struggle in making the transition from a spanish speaking culture in Medellin to the english speaking culture in the USA. It has been difficult for them to learn the language but her mother and father both found jobs right away (after obtaining political asylum) while her sister (23) was able to obtain a student visa take english courses at a local university and find part time work. My GF has been attending a local (US) university and will graduate in the spring of 2006 with a US university degree in education. It didn't come easy but it will be worth it.

I will give you an example of a woman from Argentina that moved with her husband to Panama City three years ago. This woman was well educated and completely bilingual (spanish/english). She obtained a Panamanian residency, a real estate license and will make US$150,000 this year in sales commissions in Panama. She is the top producer in the real estate sales office but she is at work at 7:30am (when no one else is including the owner) and still working at 7:30pm (after everyone has gone home) showing and closing sales. Weekends are just another workday to her. Yes she has good disipline and sales skills but the primary reason that her earning are so high is because of her bilingual skills. All of the foreign people inquiring about properties that speak english are turned over to her (and one other woman) because the rest of the sales people can only speak spanish. Over seventy percent of this "office" sales are to foreign people. Last week while I was working out of the same office I watched this woman close three transactions (in a day)!!

Colombians dream for an oportunity like you have to better yourself. You may never have this opportunity again, in fact, you may never even get a USA tourist visa in the future. You have an opportunity that millions of Colombians would jump at "go for it" !!

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 19, 2005, 09:43:

Go back to Colombia! You will regret it for the rest of your life if you stay in gringoland. You will end up bitter and spend your time posting meaningless drivel on internet sites about Colombia and spewing hatred for gringos and the land they come from. There are over 600,000 Colombians now living in the USA and none of them are happy. Don't end up like them.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Sylvie says on Aug 19, 2005, 11:00:

You're almost graduated at Los Andes (which is an excellent school) and you're thinking about staying in the states and going to an American school? No offence but that is a bit crazy! If you stay in the states you will probably lose a good part of your school credits that you earned in Colombia. That means you'll have to start them all over again. Do you really want to stay in school for another 2 or 3 years because that is a possibility? My friend completed 2 years at Los Andes and then went to University of Miami and was told she had to do 4 years because only few of her courses were valid on her American transcript.

Plus, from what I understand you will be paying International Student tuition at the American school and they can be VERY costly.
From and emotional standpoint I think you'd be ready to stay in the states since you love the family so much but unless you're very well off financially it may be a problem on the wallet.

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platano says on Aug 19, 2005, 11:09:

I agree with Sylvie... Finish your degree in Los Andes. Then apply for a post-grad scholarship. My cousin just did that after graduating from Univalle. He got a full scholarship to work on a Master's degree in the USA. Don't throw away the chance to finish and be eligible for post-graduate work (in Spain, Argentina, Mexico or the USA).

Plátano, el bobo simplón
Oxigeno Verde ¡Libertad por Ingrid y los demás!

plátano

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adrimm (☼Travelguide writer) says on Aug 19, 2005, 11:13:

Sylvie says on Aug 19, 2005, 11:26:

Good thinking adrimm! I think you can do that. Atleast for Canada you can. One of my cowokers is doing that with her working visa.

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aztec says on Aug 19, 2005, 11:38:

Review all your options We need more information re. your circumstances.

I agree with viewpoint and all things being equal his advice is right on. Plus he has real hands on experience with this problem. Also, you would find better opportunities in the US.

Los Andes is probably the best University in Colombia so it is nothing to throw away. Many students don't qualify academically or financially for this institution. I can understand your dilemma.

You need to be rather confident you can be admitted into a US major university and the program of interest. No one can guarantee your admission and it is getting harder for the better schools.

Why don't you visit the admission office of some schools in the US in which you have an interest. Then you would have more information for making a decision. You still have time unless you are talking about this Fall admission. In which case you may have an even harder time getting into a US university school this year.

Another option would be to finish Los Andes and move to the US for your graduate degrees. I assume since you are enrolled in Los Andes University money shouldn't be a problem.

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Neonovo says on Aug 19, 2005, 11:40:

Mag, so what did you decide? I say is a toss-up; Cara o sello?

Paz
Neonovo

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poco says on Aug 19, 2005, 11:40:

Key word - Haunted Haunted by missed Opportunities, not something you need 30 years from now. Especially the one you describe.

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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jbk0904 says on Aug 19, 2005, 11:59:

Your country needs you.... Go back to Colombia... for the future of Colombia, your country needs many highly educated technocrats like you. You have very high education in both countries. Now go back to Colombia and contribute to her. There are not many educated people over there. You can go back to school to teach students like you and work in the private company or work for the government. Colombia needs professional mind young technocrats for the her development. Do it for your people. Reform the system of country in a positive direction. President Uribe needs more people like you...God bless you and Colombia

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viewpoint says on Aug 19, 2005, 12:05:

The pitfall that Sylvie, Platano and Adrimm point out about the inability to transfer the spanish lanuage credits to an english language university (after four years of study) is something I never gave enough weight to. Regardless of what you do their advice is probably correct that you should finish the last year in Colombia even if you pursue your further education in the USA.

My GF was able to transfer 27 credits from her Medellin university to the US university which was unusual as most US univerities would not have allowed the transfer of spanish language credits to an english language university. I remember some of those credit transfers required special testing before they could be transfered.

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kernow62 says on Aug 19, 2005, 12:09:

Not many educated people in Colombia?

I suppose it depends on where you are talking about, and what you mean by educated. If you mean university educated Colombia is teeming with grads at least in the cities. I found it to be a highly educated place, my wife, all her family most friends are all university educated.

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jbk0904 says on Aug 19, 2005, 12:13:

yes Yes..there are many educated people in Colombia..but..for example..there are so many CPA in Bogota.. but their education level in college is little more thank book keeping. I am talking about professional technocrats.. Love Colombia

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jbk0904 says on Aug 19, 2005, 12:14:

correction little more thank book keeping...=== a little more than book keeping.

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adrimm (☼Travelguide writer) says on Aug 19, 2005, 12:20:

Sylvie says on Aug 19, 2005, 12:28:

Viewpoint, you're girlfreind got lucky with 27 credits. My friend only got 9 credits transfered out of the two years she did. She was really disappointed because she wasted her time.

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kernow62 says on Aug 19, 2005, 12:29:

The number of universities alone is quite impressive, just look how many there are in Bogota alone.

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viewpoint says on Aug 19, 2005, 13:46:

Sylvie The only reason she got that many credits transferred was because of my personal and business contacts at the "caribbean" university and the fact that she was a mostly "A" student on their honor roll.

I think that they were trying to "help" her within their ability to do so. In education her emphasis was on spanish teaching which helped too. She had to "CLEP" a number of the subjects to get them accepted. A large US mainland university would not have been so accommodative.

I don't think she realized how helpful they had been until she tried to transfer to Nova University in Flordia for her final year and ran into a brick wall as they weren't going to accept a number of her courses and transferred credits. She retreated in a hurry and is finishing this year in the caribbean university.

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Miguel says on Aug 19, 2005, 15:41:

UC Time to put your "disclaimer" back on stupid ass comments like the one about 600.000 unhappy colombianos here in the States. Y, aproposito, creo que usted no es muy contento aqui en mi pais.

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 19, 2005, 17:48:

Damm, they're NOT all unhappy? Geez, you wouldn't know it from PBH. The gang here describe life in the USA like doing time in some kind of institution. Glad you pointed that out - I never would have known otherwise.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Sonny says on Aug 19, 2005, 17:58:

UTC This is great. I love you attitude. Kinda reminds me of HULK HOGAN when he went from the great good guy to the very bad bad guy and then back to the good guy but what you say is true. If you read all the post then you would know that most people on this site hate the USA and can't wait to get away from it. You read the Visa side and they can't wait to get here. I think someone is very confused. It is kind of simple actually. Those that do not like the USA just leave and let the new blood that wants to come, come. That way the post here will be fresh and new. What do you think? 600,000 wow. Just think of all the new comments that lay ahead.

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 19, 2005, 18:36:

What an honor to be compared to Hulk Hogan. Actually posting on this site is a lot like professional wrestling.
"Damm you, Kernow, with that body slam!"
"Uh oh, Sylvie's got me in a vise grip with those legs of hers!"
"Here comes GIB with a pile driver!!!!"

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Sonny says on Aug 19, 2005, 18:48:

UTC It is a good thing that Andre the Giant is not around. Hang in there UTC. It is good to know that you can speak your mind to some of this garbage. Good for you.
Just take a deep breath. Think about the lights and music on the river walk, drink three CR's and go to bed.

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platano says on Aug 19, 2005, 21:32:

UTC, Don't make me start citing scientific studies about how unhappy people are in the USA...

Just listen to daytime talk radio... half of them are bitching about the liberals and Hollywood traitors who are ruining the country... the other half are bitching about how the christian fascists are ruining the country. Some people are unhappy about meth houses, sexual predators who rape children, others about stem cell research, illegal immigration, Iraq occupation, etc. The list is long. Rarely do you read about people being happy with the way things are in the USA.

Of course, there are some happy people in the USA... among them happy Colombians (and those lucky enough to be living with a Colombian... and other Colombians are happy about getting out of the USA and going back to Colombia (like my friend who is leaving Miami next week). She doesn't hate the USA... just doesn't want the hassle of living there and struggling to raise a child on minimum wage.

plátano

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miamimike says on Aug 19, 2005, 22:17:

Foreign College Transcript Evauluation in the USA This issue was discussed in depth in the very recent past; while there seems to be a debate on the process, "Communidad" lists steps for various professions and more or less, what the applicant needs to follow as far as validating and transferring credit. I don't think who you know, who your sponsor is, ect will influence the outcome significantly. Nor should it! It should be a transparent objective fair process so all are treated the same. The folks who really get a BIG break are graduates of Cuban Universities-their courses(at least nurses and Docs)transfer equally across the board. The debate over the fairness of this continues to this day but that is the law currently. Several AMERICAN MINORITY students are currently attending Medical School in Havana, Cuba and are being hosted by the Cuban Government-Free of Charge. Once they graduate, their courses will transfer 1 to 1 across the board. These students were unable to attend Med School here in the US, due to cost or maybe they did not have influence here in the US to gain entry. Family influence plays a big part in gaining admission to some of the better known Universities here in the USA such as Harvard, no matter what the grades were.

These were some recent comments from various posters on the matter:

check local medical licensing board
Submitted by lala96 on Tue, 08/16/2005 - 02:40.
I have worked with Medical licensing boards and how it usually goes is that you first have to make sure the University you attend in Colombia or anywhere else in the world is listed in the American Medical Association as equivalent in the US, one school I know is the Andes in Bogota but that is suppose to be very expensive. Then you do your course of study in Colombia and have to find a residency program in the US to accept you for a 3 year program, you get paid for this about $40,000 a year like the American Medical Docs in training except they do it for 1 year and you do it for 3. You don't have to validate anything like many tales you hear out there you just have to translate your transcripts and diploma.
Another option is Ireland, great affordable medical schools.

» reply
boards
Submitted by jaramillo on Tue, 08/16/2005 - 21:50.
Lala is right:you do not have to validate anything. However, to get a U.S. teaching hospital to offer you a residency with a colombian degree is highly unlikely, to put it mildly. At the very least, you will have to do well at the foreign boards, i.e. two days of testing with a passing rate below 10% for those taking the basic sciences and clinical components. By the way, one year residencies are virtually gone. Internal medicine is typically 3-4 years.

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Do nurses get paid enough in
Submitted by quinceanera on Wed, 08/17/2005 - 03:49.
Do nurses get paid enough in colombia, more particularly bogota, like i have heard that they get paid alot less then in the US, not like exact amount but ratio wise

» reply
Nurses Salaries in Bogota??? Foreign Course Validation...
Submitted by miamimike on Wed, 08/17/2005 - 07:28.
Depends probably on whether you are a Nurse "Jefe"(professional-Bachelor's Degree or a Nurse "Technico"-less then a Bachelor's Degree. Speciality, years of experience you have probably also affect salary(or should anyhow, unless you have a machismo element in play). Have heard the salaries were 80% less then salaries here in the US and Canada but have not seen a Colombian Nurse's Paystub firsthand so maybe others here that have seen such can comment on Salaries.

Course Validation: Evidently there are different trains of thought on Validation/revalidation but the following Article in "Comunidad" is more or less what is followed here in Florida(unless your are from Cuba-as far as latin countries are concerned-aforementioned--courses transfer 1:1). BTW, a Colombian(from Bogota)friend who is a U of Miami Graduate(BSN-Nursing)and is originally from Bogota decided to return home(to bogota) from Miami(where she works at Jackson Memorial Hospital in ICU-last 11 years, so lots of experience)She assumed that it would be a relatively simple matter to show her Florida License, Demonstrate her Clinical Skills if need be, Colombian Passport, resume,Diploma from U of Miami with her transcripts and go to work within a few months or when a Position turned up. WOW-was she in for a Surprise-seems the equiv. to what would be our board of Nursing in Col. intended to put this RN back through Nursing school again, informing her how she would have to repeat her science courses,some nursing courses ect. NO courtesy of Validation so she could get credit for these courses. She related to me, "It's a wonder they didn't ask me to repeat Spanish 101, but they passed on this(she was a Spanish Teacher having graduated from Los Andes as a teacher(spanish) in the early 80s, guess they figured this + 40 years of speaking spanish sufficed. Speaks perfect English also-she seemed like a shoo-in, a Bi-lingual Nurse who was willing to work for maybe $15K in Bogota to be close to her aging parents. So, Unless the Foreign School's Curriculm has been evaluated by the US Credentialing organizations they then should have to perform this step here to insure Parity of Course content. Many don't like it but for patient safty(consumer)its needed.

Comunidad------------

How to Revalidate Your Profession in the United States

Many immigrants come to the United States resigned to work in any job that is available to them, because they assume that the language barrier, tests, textbooks and license validation make for a difficult process. If he or she is truly dedicated, tenacious and willing to follow the correct steps, the road to revalidating a vocation or career becomes much easier.

The majority of technical, post-graduate and doctorate degrees require a license from the state where the person is seeking employment. Before doing that, the applicant must first validate the degrees obtained in his or her native country. It may be also necessary that he or she enroll in additional educational courses, pass technical exams and the TOEFL, among other procedures.

The state department or office whose branch relates to that particular profession is the party that grants the license. For example, the Department of Health regulates any health-related profession, teachers should direct their application to the Department of Education, and the Board of Professional Engineers supervise engineers.

The first step that an immigrant (who is a college graduate) should take is to have his or her academic credentials *******evaluated***********. An institution accredited by the National Association of Credential Evaluation Services (NACES : www.naces.org) should examine all titles and certifications in order to verify their validity.

English-language skills may be a requirement for some careers, such as medicine, law, odontology, engineering and accounting. Therefore, the majority of exams are written in English and the applicant must also pass the TOEFL (Test of English as a Foreign Language -- www.toefl.org).

The procedures for each particular career differ in time, type of exam and fees. You should investigate the proper procedures for your line of work keeping in mind that your state may have a profession that does not require a license. For example, in Florida, journalists, PR professionals, computer technicians, graphic designers, retailers, trade experts, chefs, etc. do not need licenses.

An applicant can also decide on a secondary license related to his or her profession. For example, in odontology, the applicant can opt for a dental hygienist license, and in medicine, he or she can apply for a medical assistant's license. For psychology, he or she can decide to apply for a counselor license; in law, they can submit an application for a license as a paralegal, or a legal consultant with an emphasis on the laws of his or her native country, etc.

If you are determined to follow the complex but more satisfying route in order to work in your own profession, the following is a brief overview that explains the revalidation procedures for certain careers:

PROCEDURE FOR DOCTORS

Foreign doctors must submit academic credentials from their native country's school of medicine to the Education Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates (ECFMG). To obtain ECFMG certification, they will be required to satisfy a series of tests offered throughout the year. Soon after, he or she must complete a Residency Program. A year after they complete their residence program, they should take the (United States Medical Licensure Exam). Then they should complete the second year of the Residency Program, among other steps.

PROCEDURE FOR ODONTOLOGISTS

Dentists should first submit their credentials for evaluation to the Educational Credential Evaluators (ECE) agency. Later they should pass Part I and II of the National Board Dental Examination and present their results to the American Dental Association's Joint Commission on National Dental Examinations. Afterward, they should complete two years of supplementary education in Odontology at a US accredited university, among other steps.

PROCEDURE FOR LAWYERS

The foreign lawyer needs to attend Law School in the United States in order to obtain a diploma. He or she must also validate the titles and certification they achieved at their country of origin. After three years of study, he or she may be eligible to receive a Juris Doctor title. The applicant must present his or her request to the bar association in the state where he or she intends to practice, and undergo a background check. Once completed, he or she can begin practice, among other steps.

PROCEDURE FOR ACCOUNTANTS

Accountants must be admitted to an Accounting program at an accredited university and complete a minimum of 15 semester hours of post degree. Nine hours must correspond to accounting, and he or she should at least three semester hours on tax education. The university must also verify that the applicant has exemplary conduct. Additionally, the applicant must present his or her credentials before an agency accredited by the Board of Accountancy, posses a license from an unaccredited school (from his native country) and demonstrate that they have completed a pre-determined amount of semester hours in accounting and business. Lastly, the applicant will have to pass the Uniform CPA Examination in order to obtain his or her state license.

PROCEDURE FOR TEACHERS

A teacher must obtain an evaluation of his or her credentials. After that, they need to present it along with a certified copy of their diplomas (clearly showing the date of graduation) to the Department of Education's State Board for Educator Certification. They can go to any public notary or directly to the School Board office to notarize the original diploma. They should then submit the results of their evaluation, a certified copy of their diploma, and a request for certification along with the corresponding fee. After approval, they will be presented with a certificate and he or she will now be authorized to teach in the United States.

» edit | reply

Avatar Legend: Bush "If any of you Reporters are wondering, it was a Size 10"

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viewpoint says on Aug 20, 2005, 03:56:

MiamiMike Interesting post !!! Are the Medical Courses in Cuba that can be transfered 1 to 1 (accross the board after graduation) taught in english ?

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aztec says on Aug 20, 2005, 05:00:

Reference unhappy Colombians It is my observations that people who are unhappy in the US will be unhappy in Colombia. In other words people who have generally unhappy and unpleasant personalities will also reflect those personalities where ever they go.

Perhaps my wife and I are fortunate because all of the Colombians we have met in the USA are happy, successful and productive members of the community. It is true, however, the Colombians we are around in the USA are professional and well educated.

My wife is a citizen of both countries and feels fortunate. She loves both countries and will tell you quickly that each have good and bad things about them.

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kernow62 says on Aug 20, 2005, 09:08:

The way I look at thing is you can be unhappy with certain aspects of life in the US or Colombia or wherever, that doesn't make you an unhappy person, nor does it mean you hate the US. I just happen to know for a fact that some things are better in other countries, but I love the US all the same.

US patriotism is being shoved down our throats all the time and much of it is false patriotism.

Oh you disagree with the war, you are a traitor, get out of the US!

You think prices for medical treatment is too high, get the hell back to Canada you socialist!

How dare you speak Spanish your in America, speak American, go back to where you come from!

I hear this crap all the time, of course I live in the south. ja ja

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 20, 2005, 09:24:

With regards to whether a professional can practice in the US, there are some advantages to coming from another English country. Since we share the same legal system, lawyers from Canada, England, Australia and NZ will usually have no problems getting admitted to the bar here. I know several lawyers here who went to law school in Canada and were able to take the bar exam here just like the graduate of an American school.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 20, 2005, 09:28:

People from the US are much like Colombians in this regard. It's ok for "one of us" to criticize but "one of them" better not say anything negative. It's really a double standard but I guess it's understandable.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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miamimike says on Aug 20, 2005, 09:42:

Viewpoint- beleive the School is taught in English because in the below attached article it says nothing about Spanish being a pre-Req. Furthermore it also says they are taught and housed apart from the other Cuban Medical Students though am not 100% sure if its in eng. or Esp..

Cuba Giving 8 Americans Free Medical Education
by Richard Chacón

HAVANA - They want to be doctors but didn't think they could afford the sky-high tuition, so eight minority students from the United States have dropped everything back home to study in communist Cuba for free, compliments of Fidel Castro.

One is the daughter of immigrants who fled communist China for Minnesota. Another spent two years in the Navy. A third is the son of Mexican-American activists from Chicago. And still another left her 2-year-old son with relatives back in Florida.

With slightly more than a week's notice, the students left their jobs or colleges last month, said goodbye to friends and relatives, and began a six-year program at the Latin American School of Medical Sciences, a sprawling complex on the western outskirts of this capital city.

The Cuban government launched the school two years ago with a mandate to train foreign doctors from mostly poor Latin American or African countries. Last year, Castro decided to include US racial or ethnic minority students on the condition that they practice in underserved communities when they return.

''Everyone here has been warm and welcoming, but the attention has been a little overwhelming,'' said Karima Mosi, 22, who is a few credits short of receiving her undergraduate degree at the University of California-San Diego. ''The philosophy here is that doctors should work for the people, not for their own financial benefit, and I agree completely with that.''

Castro's plan is a gamble - both for Cuba and the students. Although Cuban-trained doctors are widely respected, no one is sure yet whether the American students will be adequately prepared to pass a rigorous series of licensing exams required of all doctors who want to practice in the United States.

''Our biggest concern is whether these students will be able to pass these difficult hurdles for residency or licenses,'' said Dr. Jordan Cohen, president of the American Association of Medical Colleges, which, among other things, takes part in accrediting medical schools.

The school, on a former naval base, has been converted into a miniature city along a beach 20 miles west of central Havana. It was established shortly after Hurricane Mitch devastated Central America and exposed the region's need for more doctors, especially in rural and poor areas. The school already has 4,000 students, all of them foreigners.

Not surprisingly, Castro's offer to train US medical students has become a political issue in the always tense relations between the two countries. Critics see the plan as nothing more than another Castro-led campaign to tout his country's policies and tweak Uncle Sam's nose. But supporters say the school will help fill a void in many countries, including the United States, for better health care in poor areas.

''This is not a political school,'' said Juan Carrizo Estevez, the rector. ''This is about medical training that's rooted in the deepest concept of humanity, because we hope that one day these students will become health missionaries in their countries.''

Despite chronic shortages of equipment, medicines, and money, Cuba's medical system has become a model of effectiveness in some areas. Its infant mortality rate is one of the lowest in the world, and its programs of child vaccination and prevention of meningitis and AIDS are internationally famous.

But the country also has a glut of doctors, forcing many to find jobs in other fields, such as the booming tourism industry, or take temporary assignments in other countries, such as Haiti. Those who find work as doctors make about $30 a month.

Castro offered to train as many as 500 American students last year during a speech at Riverside Church in New York, and later at a meeting with members of the Congressional Black Caucus. The scholarships are being coordinated through the Interreligious Foundation for Community Coordination and the New York-based Pastors for Peace.

''We have children dying in our districts because of inadequate health care, so why should it matter what country a doctor was trained in?'' said US Representative Bennie G. Thompson, a Mississipi Democrat. ''Rich folks go to offshore medical schools all the time, so why shouldn't poor students whom we know will come back and serve our communities?''

Mosi, the daughter of pro-Cuba activists in Southern California, decided to apply after reading a copy of Castro's speech online. She, like many of her American classmates in Cuba, says the United States should end its 40-year-old trade embargo against Cuba and has pledged to return to the United States to practice community-based medicine.

''I don't mind making an antiembargo statement with my presence here,'' said Sophia Ali, 21, of New York. ''If we can encourage others in the US to pay attention and learn about this wonderful country, then that's fine too.''

Their dormitories lack hot water, air conditioning, and toilet seats, the students said. They are required to wear the school uniform: blue pants and white doctor's smock. In addition to picking up their tab for tuition and housing, the government provides a stipend of about $5 a month.

They are kept at a distance from the residents and distractions of the bustling capital city, which they visit via school-provided shuttle bus on weekends. They mingle only with other foreign students. Cuban medical students attend schools elsewhere.

Those constraints aside, the students agree that the opportunity to study in Cuba influenced their decision far more than the free tuition.

''It's not just about the money, although that's very important,'' said Monica Fowler, a 21-year-old Houston native. ''For me, it's been mostly about the experience of living and studying in a country as fascinating as Cuba. But it's nice to know we'll be going back without school debt.''

US applicants must be 18 to 25 years old and have a high school diploma. They must also come from a racial or ethnic minority and have no criminal record. Most of the current students have not yet earned a college degree.

Although they're not prohibited by the trade embargo from studying in Cuba, the eight American students, like all doctors trained in a foreign country, will have to pass two sets of exams in order to get a US medical license and qualify for a residency program. They'll also have to meet state requirements.

Before giving its final endorsement to Castro's plan, the US congressional caucus is sending a delegation of observers to Cuba this weekend to visit the school and meet with the students. The group will include some US doctors and members of the National Medical Association, an organization of African-American physicians.

''We're giving them an education that combines the practical and theoretical and that's valid for today's medical reality,'' said Carrizo, the rector. ''But we have also thought about inviting US professors to give seminars to prepare the students for their exams, or to add a course on some financial or economic issues in medicine.''

Khalil Marshall, a 20-year-old resident of the Bronx who tried unsuccessfully to work as a hospital corpsman during his two years in the Navy, is not worried about passing the US exams.

''I know the education we'll get here is as good or superior to most foreign programs, and even better than many in the states,'' he said. ''It's also about the person and how hard they try. In my case, I've wanted to be a doctor ever since I was a child.''

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miamimike says on Aug 20, 2005, 09:49:

BTW-Colombia also sends Medical Students to Cuba Colombian government sends Colombians to study in Cuba
Submitted by vladimiro on Sat, 05/14/2005 - 03:11. | Report a problem (See the rules) Friendly Talkzone
This month 35 Colombians will head to Cuba to study medicine for the next 6 years. Cuba awarded scholarships, through the Colombian government's ICETEX institute, to 17 women and 18 men from lower income Colombian families that had done well in the Physics, Chemistry, and Biology sections of the ICFES tests. In the last 5 years Cuba has awarded 374 scholarships to COlombians. Apparrently, the Colombian government is not worried that the Cuban doctor's real object is to convert these young people into communists as the US often says of Cuba's doctors:)

http://periodicoamigo.com/382_becas_cuba.html

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CaryGrant says on Aug 20, 2005, 10:06:

MaG - ultimately, of course, you will have to decide what is best for you. Others can only tell you what they *believe* they would do were they in a similar situation. Life is meaningless if you are not happy. You can make millions in the US - or Colombia - and still be extremely unhappy.

If you stay in the US and become an Industrial Engineer, you will earn enough money to visit Colombia once or twice per year, at least until you have a family. However, visiting is not the same as living in a place.

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viewpoint says on Aug 20, 2005, 10:33:

MiamiMike Very interesting posts !!! I had read (and heard) about Cuba medical schools but I had never realized that they were taught in english.

Four thousand foreign students is a substanial number for that program.

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miamimike says on Aug 20, 2005, 13:24:

Viewpoint-the course is in Spanish! I was curious a so I checked into ita a little farther and Yes, it is in Spanish according to this article by the Canadian Medical Group:

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Cuba trains American medical students — to work in US
CMAJ 2001;164(10):1477 [PDF]



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eight young Americans have recently taken up President Fidel Castro's offer of a free medical education in Cuba, much to the chagrin of American anti-Castro groups.
Castro hopes that the 8 students, all from low-income, minority families and communities where health care is in short supply, will be the vanguard of a corps of up to 500 US students taking advantage of Cuba's willingness to train doctors to treat poor Americans. The next 30 students from the US will arrive this summer.

The offer originated last year after Castro met with the US Congressional Black Caucus. Benny Thompson, a Democrat from Mississippi, complained of the high infant mortality rate and lack of doctors in his district.

Castro responded by offering to educate students from low-income American families who agreed to return to their communities after the 6 years of training. Cuba is paying all costs save for the students' airfare.

The Americans won't be alone in Cuba. More than 3400 medical students from 23 Latin American, African and Caribbean countries are already being trained at Cuba's expense. After intensive Spanish-language training, since all courses are taught in Spanish, the students spend their first 2 years at the Latin American School of Medical Sciences in Havana and then move on to 1 of Cuba's 21 other schools.

Joe Garcia of the Cuban American National Foundation doubts that the students will ever be licensed to practise in the US, but a spokesperson for the Florida Board of Medicine told CMAJ that they would be considered for licensure as international medical graduates. A spokesperson for the National Federation of State Medical Boards said they would be eligible for licensure as long as they meet state medical board requirements.

Physicians are one of Cuba's prime exports. A country of 11 million people, it has 60 000 doctors — roughly the same number as Canada, which has 3 times the population. Many are assigned to developing countries. In Haiti alone, 800 Cuban MDs are doing community outreach work.

After Hurricane Mitch in 1998, more than 120 Cuban doctors were sent to Honduras, where they have since treated 1.2 million patients. In Uganda, Cuban doctors have created a highly respected AIDS-prevention program that the UN considers a model.

Dr. Anthony Kirkpatrick, a professor of anesthesiology at the University of South Florida who advocates freer relations between the US and Cuba, says he would not hesitate to work with a doctor educated there.

He says that even though Cuba is one of the poorest countries in this hemisphere, it has developed model public health and child vaccination programs and has successfully curtailed the spread of HIV that is ravaging many other Caribbean and Latin American countries.

Kirkpatrick, who has flown many medical supplies to Cuba, says American students trained there will learn how to get the best outcomes with the fewest resources — something they would not be taught at an American medical school. He says Cuba's centralized system of primary care outreach services is ideal for it and the country has "simply built a better mousetrap." — Milan Korcok, Florida





Copyright 2001 Canadian

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miamimike says on Aug 20, 2005, 13:29:

Can't undrstand that comment By Joe Garcia of the CANF as to these "Students probably never will be licensed in the US" And he's from Miami-home to 800,000 Cubans and Many Doctors were trained in Cuba and passed the USME here in Florida. Many also failed the Medical exam due to their lack of English.Many. This won't be the case with these younger students as English is their first langauge.

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CaryGrant says on Aug 20, 2005, 13:36:

How can Americans study in Cuba? I thought is was illegal for Americans to go there, never mind live.

And no wonder Cuba is so poor, between the US embargo and training zillions of doctors for free.

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miamimike says on Aug 20, 2005, 18:34:

Not Illegal to go to Cuba Illegal to spend our money there. These students expenses are 100% covered by the Cuban Government so no law of any type is being broken.Some of the Right wing loonies here in Miami would differ but thats their problem.

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Hunter says on Aug 21, 2005, 03:19:

Waivers are also given to certain American Citizens, tei groups that recently visit that come to mind are some Politicians and Grain exports.

Hunter

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