I have a question for forign men who visit this site

flatworld says on May 26, 2007, 19:07:

CA's going to have a party with you I would bet it's the same as any other demographic, all of the above. It doesn't really matter where you are. Human nature is generic. Some men will look for love and get taken by women "gold diggers". Some men will use women for sex. Some men and some women will look for a relationship and find one. Some will negotiate a price for an exchange upfront. Others will negotiate it later, after the fact . . . how can you generalize these things?

Why don't you tell us, what are you looking for?

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David in Idaho says on May 26, 2007, 19:12:

I sat here trying to formulate a good reply and then flatworld's appeared, and I realized it was no longer necesary. Well put Flatworld!

I'm one of the lucky ones that went looking for love and actually found it. Yes, she is slightly younger than I am but this difference doesn't seem to be much of an issue. I'm 36 and she is 28. The "same look factor?" That's a good one Susy. Like any man who is in love, I honestly believe that my wife is the most beautiful woman in the world. Why she settled for a balding guy with a (little) beer gut is one of life's greatest mysteries. Yet, she thinks I'm very handsome, as do all of her sisters and girlfriends. Go figure.

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Miguel_Clavo says on May 26, 2007, 19:29:

Hmmm...... susylinda
view contact
History
Member for:
47 min 42 sec

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo =)..aka, DragonSlayer..2-0..Colombia es pasión!

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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jinksmiester says on May 26, 2007, 19:31:

Lots of good men go to colombia.Having said that lots go just to meet and date different woman with no intent of seaching for a wife.Whether or not that makes them bad depends on your perspective...if they are straight up and hounest with the ladys they meet then id say they are doing nothing wrong.
Ive been fortunate and have been around colombia quite a lot over the last three years.Ive made a dozen trips to various places in colombia and have probably spent a year +there in total.I met the lady who is now my wife on my first trip and had been going back and forth spending time and learning about her culture.I did not go there in seach of a wife,it was more of a holiday as i wanted to visit someplace that has not become americanized.I met my wife by accident and felt she was to good to pass up not getting to know her.
I feel fortunate...ive met a lot of great people in colombia and ive made some friends for life.I hold them in high regard with respect.Fact is i believe people in north america could take a lesson in family values from most of the colombian people ive met.
There are good and bad people everywhere...I think that boils down to who you are and the values you were brought up with...it has nothing to do with skin colour or nationality.To say that everyone who visits colombia is bad is simply not true...lots of decent guys go there...that said there are also decent colombian men to...i know some ,they are my friends.

A man is not old until regret takes the place of dreams

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CaritadeAngel says on May 26, 2007, 20:35:

Actually I agree with Flatworld but of course, you know that bad men are drawn - in droves - to places which are most vulnerable. Colombia's vulnerable economic position makes it fertile ground to pull in the worst of them.

Many women from Asia and Latin America think that if they date a gringo, he will not treat them in the same nasty way she may be accustomed to in her own culture. If I date/marry a gringo, she thinks, then he will not lie, cheat, or beat me up, he will let me develop my career, he will help in the house, help with the kids he will treat me as an equal and not as a slave, he will not visit the putas, etc etc.

For many western men who marry or date foreign women, this is in fact the case. America is evangelical about its values of liberty and equality, and many many American men are honourable, goodhearted, and have noble intentions towards the women they date. I know there are gringos who have married Colombianas and are disgusted by the activities of other gringos here.

The trouble is that so many of the gringos down here are bigger perros than the local perritos. They are looking for a woman – or several - who won't realise this (because you can hide all kinds of things when she doesn't understand the culture). They are on vacation from the real world. And from justice. And from sanity. And possibly from the 21st Century. Far from being progressive and enlightned, and economically secure, they could in fact be the opposite. If you end up in the EEUU with a man like you could be living in worse conditions than you do here – and with a complete bastard/loco.

So how do you know a good gringo from a bad one? One way to tell is that if he bitches about American women (they are all fat feminists who don't know how to treat a man etc), this is the “machista dog” alert: a man of justice and compassion will accept the obvious truth that there are good women everywhere, beautiful women everywhere, and sweet women everywhere, and that there are also bad women everywhere too. And the same goes for men.

"I hope I never say anything worth quoting".

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Aji1 says on May 26, 2007, 20:58:

Yes

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Aji1 says on May 26, 2007, 21:01:

All the Above.

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flatworld says on May 26, 2007, 21:25:

CA You mean you're not a card carrying member of the she-woman man haters club?

I agree with you as well, most men in America welcome equality. We like our women educated and worldly. We also wish they'd take out the garbage or mow the lawn now and then.... But guess what, that's the other side of the coin. Western women want equality and chivalry. Any idea how difficult it is to straddle that chasm? "Open the door for me and stop treating me like I'm different...."

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Simon says on May 26, 2007, 21:32:

Hey Susulinda,And who do Hey Susylinda,

And who do you think Colombian men are cheating with? With Colombian women!! So don't come here and only call us "dogs"...porque PERRAS también las hay por montones en Colombia!

"DON'T FOK WITH COLOMBIA!!"-----Simon

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Dr.Watson says on May 26, 2007, 22:22:

And now for something completely different.... Gringos, such as myself, find Latinas, and Colombianas in particular, interesting as prospective wives. Why? There will be many reasons among us, but I will venture one that is probably broadly shared. It is attitude.

For those NOT born and raised in the "first world" here are a few websites to peruse and terms to enter into search engines: www dot heartlessbitches dot com (a website where norteamerican*as* can proudly proclaim they are "Being In Total Control, Honey" and most definitely do not need a man in their lives) or enter the words "political lesbian" or the words "lug and lesbian until graduation" into google. Spend some time at these sites. You will taste some of the silliness that men in the US and Europe put up with from *some* women. The anger palpitates and does not discriminate between the bad guys amongst us and the normal ones. We are tired of that angry attitude. Who wants to go to sleep each night with somebody with those attitudes?

If you are a Colombiana, or are like the two Mexicanas to whom I showed these sites, you will likely find their content either funny or weird or strange. But they do capture a segment of the "first world female" and the attitudes expressed therein do trickle down. This is a fact, not an opinion. These sites are not created by Neanderthal Norteamericanos. They are created by women with an attitude that is malignantly anti-male.

Reading this and other sites the chant seems to be that Norteamericanos are looking for subservient wives when they look southward. First, anyone who has dated a Latina knows that she is not subservient -- and she will disabuse you of that notion quickly. Second, guys who want families know that their children will be some mixture of the psychological makeup of both parents. Who wants to have children prone or conditioned to subservience? We want children (and wives) who are equal human beings, not because we are special but because we are normal.

Some of the women on this site (and I have lurked for months) are quick to cast the European or North American male as a sex tourist and nothing more. They have no experience as a male, yet speak as if they know what we face. Colombianas know about men and their predilictions and shortcomings; we are no different from your Colombianos in many respects. But take my suggestion seriously. Visit the websites I have described, and do so before you believe certain females here who think they know what NorteAmericanos/Canadienses/Europeos actually face in their lives.

Besides, what law says you have to marry somebody born in the same country you were? That's the point, there isn't such a law. And it wouldn't work if there was one. I trust this shows you a different, non-stereotypical perspective on this topic.

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CaritadeAngel says on May 26, 2007, 22:27:

Pasty, open your eyes. I've seen that many times... The jinatero - I dont know the Colombian name this but I'm sure he exists - is with your mature plus sized gringa for exactly the same reasons as your hot prepago mamacita is with your average 50-something balding pasty gringo: no relation to you of course.

The older female sex tourist hasn't yet discovered Colombia. She's there - oh crikey, is she there - in Cuba. Habana Vieja is jinatero central - and one of the few places in the world where I had exactly the same soliticing from male "hookers" as the men were getting from the females. It was kinda creepy, truth be told.

It's only a matter of time before the same thing happens here.


“It's a common misconception that black men are bigger than latin men, and latin men are bigger than white men. This is untrue; a shameful prejudice. A****holes, however, are the same everywhere.”

"I hope I never say anything worth quoting".

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scotty says on May 26, 2007, 22:44:

Dr Watson I just have one thing to say concerning your post above. BINGO!

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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Miguel_Clavo says on May 26, 2007, 22:47:

Dr Watson, I presume..... Dr.Watson
view contact
History
Member for:
1 hour 9 min

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo =)..aka, DragonSlayer..2-0..Colombia es pasión!

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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goin_south says on May 26, 2007, 22:52:

www.heartlessbitches.com LMAO, Doc Watson.
Now,...back to the movie.

Voy por del Sur

Why Not Colombia?..........Stay Tuned, for more.... utterly worthless, self-indulgent gobbets of nonsense.

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Dr.Watson says on May 26, 2007, 22:53:

Clavo.... and what are you implying, old-timer?

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Miguel_Clavo says on May 26, 2007, 22:57:

Nothing...other than what a coincidence, Doc... you a real doc? or a Dr Watson/Sherlock Holmes fan?.. a Windows Dr Watson type person...just curious..no harm in asking is there?? interestin screen name...

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo =)..aka, DragonSlayer..2-0..Colombia es pasión!

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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CaritadeAngel says on May 26, 2007, 23:03:

I'll assume you are posting in good faith, Doctor
But you sound suspiciously like a well-known troll known for creating controversy. Your response will reveal your true motivations. 53 minutes old hmmmm? And like Susi, your English is excellent. Same patterns and sentence structure... well, as I say, I'll assume I am not “feeding the troll” and will answer your points. You have said “some female posters” - by which of course you mean me, since I am the only one who posts objections to sex-tourism here, and not without considerable vitriol on the part of those whose consciences I have pricked.

I agree with you that mysandry is a problem in the west. Like all forms of fundamentalism I despise it - along with racism anti-Semitism etc. Mysandry - to give it its proper name - is also a problem everywhere: there are, in every society women who hate men so much that they conduct a bitter war against them. This is just crazy.

I also agree with you that latinas are not “subservient”. But fantasy is the fuel that sustains sex-tourism: fantasy and perception, not reality. Since when did the real woman have anything to do with “dogs” and “players” here? He who marries here does so with his eyes wide open, or should do, he knows something of the language, the culture, and the way things really are. He marries a woman he really knows, likes and loves. If he doesn't marry for these reasons, he is in deep trouble.

The sex-tourist, on the other hand, is living in the dream-world of a manufactured Colombia: one which caters to his every illusion. He is not interested in the real Colombia, or the real woman. Colombia and Colombians are merely the necessary apparatus for sustaining his illusions.

I do not accept that all western women are somehow "contaminated" with mysandry. We are capable of thinking for ourselves. I looked into feminist philosophy, decided it was a pile of neo-pagan prejudiced nonsense, and rejected it. So have many other women. I refuse accept that an objection to sexual tourism - to "playing" women can ever be interpreted as being anti-male, or anti-marriage, or a form of mysandry. I also believe that there are many gringos who enter inter-cultural marriage in good faith. I have not "written off" "all" men from the west. Just the players, the ones who use Colombia as their personal pleasure ground. I love transcultural relationships for the same reason that many men do: difference in culture adds tremendous zest and creativity to a relationship, and I know many men (and women) who have married into other cultures and did so for the right reasons.

Elementary, don't you think?

"I hope I never say anything worth quoting".

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Dr.Watson says on May 26, 2007, 23:32:

For an Angel you are unduly suspicious.

Of course my English is excellent. I was born in California. English is the second most commonly spoken language in that state.

And as for being a "troll" -- what a fine welcome I receive for my initial post here! A troll is a disruptor who adds nothing but animosity to a discussion. Where exactly have I done that? Surely posting a well-reasoned and logical post does not constitute "trolling."

How about not questioning my bona fides ("you sound suspiciously like a well-known troll known for creating controversy"). and I will refrain doing the same to all other posters (new and old) who adhere to board guidelines?

And no, nothing dealing with human nature is "elementary" -- especially if it deals with the male/female relationship. Trust me. Dr.Watson

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billyb says on May 26, 2007, 23:53:

Watson/UTC, too bad you have become... I take it back.

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Dr.Watson says on May 27, 2007, 00:08:

Don't Attack Personally Billy B I don't know who UTC is and I have never posted here before, and I am wondering exactly what anything I said makes me a "little p*ssY" -- this board has two people fighting ghosts, you and that CA person. Don't take it out on others. Argue rationally. Is every new poster treated this way?

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billyb says on May 27, 2007, 00:17:

I'm impressed UC.. nice attempt at immitating a colombian speaking english ;)

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podborski says on May 27, 2007, 00:28:

not nearly as good as Borat speaking kazakhlish:

'these eesh VCR recorder'

I'm thinking the same people who don't get his humour, well their lives just aren't worth living.

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Dr.Watson says on May 27, 2007, 00:34:

"nice attempt at immitating a colombian speaking english ;)"

If you read the posts, sir, you will notice I was born in California and am a native English speaker. I am not Colombian, didn't say I was, and you are on some weird vendetta that adds nothing to this board.

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raulinho says on May 27, 2007, 04:48:

Simon you are right there are PLENTY of Colombian putas haciendose pasar por good girls and you know the ones who complain the most about the Colombian men are the most putas. So a word of warning if your Colombian girlfriend wants to marry you within 3 months of meeting you or has dated gringos before on the internet wave.... byebye ...and especially if they say te amo.... te amo..wave byebye

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miamimike says on May 27, 2007, 04:58:

SusyLinda, why do you assume all NorthAmericans Come to Colombia for the Colombian Women? Not all come for this Reason,myself I come for Medical procedures, Travel, Cultural ect, others visit family with their Wives. I would say many would not come if it were not for this reason you mention but not all. In Miami, with so many Colombian Women, you needn't really leave the area(miami)if meeting Col Women is your sole criteria,,,

Avatar Legend: Bush "If any of you Reporters are wondering, it was a Size 10"

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aztec says on May 27, 2007, 05:11:

Dr.Watson "Clavo....

and what are you implying, old-timer?"

You will have to forgive us our suspicion. Here lately we have been scammed often by interlopers who come on and then disappear only to return as someone new. Assuming you are indeed a new poster, welcome. Your post was very well done.

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CaritadeAngel says on May 27, 2007, 06:49:

Dr Watson, this Angel is a Scot The Scots were e're suspicious bastards. Lochdhu, a fellow scot, will confirm this even if he agrees with nothing else I say. We are possibly the most suspicious people on God's sweet earth, which is why American direct sales companies don't even bother with Scotland when they come to the UK.

You are indeed welcome if you are not one of the many incarnations: some trolls have been incarnated more times here than a Hindu diety.
By your posts we shall know you.

Between men and women it is ideed elementary. Treat women as you would your friends, with justice and honour. You will find that things become very simple, very quickly.

"I hope I never say anything worth quoting".

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Waterdawg says on May 27, 2007, 07:15:

Other side of the coin ! .. Having lived in Latin America for four years now ( Panama , Ecuador and now Colombia ) I can say that folks is folks .. The LA. Culture is very different than , say the USSA ; But so is each Country I have lived in . I find really great Gringos living and working down here & also a bunch of guys coming down to Party .. I find a ton of Latin Lady's up for the party game ( and benefits ) and guys willing to pay or dumb enough to pay to play ( pay me now or pay me later ) ..

.. There are some ( like me ) in my 50's , Own a small leather export Company , just trying to make a living and live a better (I hope ) life . I don't hit the clubs , not looking for love in all the wrong places , not looking for some hot twenty year old ( man needs to know his limitations, lol ) ..

..Close in age , looks , education , some culture linkage ??? Try that on for size .. Ain't so easy down here .. People need to remember that life and people are not like " Walmart shopping " ONE SIZE FITS ALL !

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susylinda says on May 27, 2007, 07:44:

Thank you all for your posts. Well most of you anyway. To those paranoid people that attack a new poster for making some very insightful comments I say GET A LIFE! I too am a new poster, first time in fact. Is this some clicky club or something? Why not take the post of an indivual for what it is? Dr. Watsons post was a very insightfull intelligent post and should be taken on that merit alone and not attacked for being a troll. If he was dissruptive and taking from my post then by all means attack. This guy was doing none of that.

Yet people that I have noticed have absolutely NOTHING to say themselves drive off the intellectual. Why don't you and you know who you are go join a nursery school class where your in class acting up can be appreciated.

OK now I hope we could continue this as I find your responses very interesting and would like to hear more.

To further clarify, gringos have a reputation for being better husbands than Colombiano's. Yes we know the dog gringo and spot him very quickly. We have been conditioned to spot the dog Colombiano all our lives so trust me a dog gringo is getting nothing but prepago action.

I know the reason for this. In the US a guy who cheats on his wife is considered a piece of garbage and here in Colombia he is considered a viable male. It really is that simple.

But anyway it just seems to me that gringos are rather tired of the treatement they are getting from some gringas and the Colombiana is sure tired of the treatment they get from Colombiano's. So to me it is very interesting to study the microcosm of those who are honestly seeking out the advantages of this type of relationship and those who are trying to capatalize on it and all the reasons for both. A very interesting study indeed.

Again thank you Miami, Dr, Angel, Rubio and others To the dissruptive ones please find something else to do. We are not bothering you or invading your life. Just let us continue a discussion please.

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flatworld says on May 27, 2007, 08:07:

Susy Your English is commendable. Where is it in Colombia that you are from? Where did you learn to speak/write English so well?

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bueno_pues says on May 27, 2007, 08:26:

Los gringos en Colombia son perdedores que no pueden conseguir las mujeres en su propio pais. No haga nada con ellos!

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on May 27, 2007, 08:57:

and the real UTC has spoken, at least twice.

Susy, Dr. Watson, no, I don't think you're new handles of an old troll, or new names for our favorite split-personality forum cynic U(T)C. ("Muerte a los gringos" is his favorite battle-cry). Miguel, Billy et al would you please give these good people a 24-hour window before starting to call the trolls? Or UC spinoffs?

Cheers,
Desi


"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe
they are free." —Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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paisa29 says on May 27, 2007, 09:20:

Caritadeangel wrote the following...

"Many women from Asia and Latin America think that if they date a gringo, he will not treat them in the same nasty way she may be accustomed to in her own culture. If I date/marry a gringo, she thinks, then he will not lie, cheat, or beat me up, he will let me develop my career, he will help in the house, help with the kids he will treat me as an equal and not as a slave, he will not visit the putas, etc etc."

It describes the thoughts I had some years ago about foreigner men, but now after having the opportunity of meeting men from different nacionalities I can say you are right about this:

"The trouble is that so many of the gringos down here are bigger perros than the local perritos."

It´s like if SOME of them have taken the actitudes of Colombian men, they become perros, you can see this especially here in Medellín where there are more women than men, that is the main reason I am not looking for other different than a friendship.

"Fill the earth with the light and warmth of hospitality" Conrad Hilton

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Leeroy says on May 27, 2007, 09:27:

It's true that Colombian men generally do not have a good reputation for staying faithful - but this in itself raises some questions.

Statistically speaking, if loads of Colombian men are being unfaithful, but no Colombian women are, then there must be a select few Colombian women sleeping with scary numbers of men. I find this unlikely. What is more probable is that as (in Latin cultures especially) men are the ones who initiate sexual encounters more often, it is considered their "doing" when infidelity takes place. Thus, we might all say "Colombian men sleep around", when it might be more accurate to say "Colombian people sleep around, although it is normally the men who initiate it".

Furthermore, are there scientific studies that have proven beyond doubt that Colombians are more unfaithful than (say) their gringo counterparts? Might it be that, actually, Colombians do not stand out statistically speaking from other nationalities? Perhaps (again, purely as an example) Americans cheat on each other just as much as Latinos/as, but they are better at keeping it secret... Perhaps Colombians are more likely to kick up a fuss about percieved infidelity, and Americans are more likely to keep quiet about it. Maybe Colombian guys boast about being unfaithful as a way of advertising their masculinity, while American guys keep it quiet as they don't see it as something to be "proud" of.

It could simply be, however, that Colombians are less faithful than gringos - I don't know...

So where and how do Colombianas stand in the eyes of gringos? Personally, I do not see this massive gulf in culture between "Colombianas" and "gringas" that others describe. Women are women, I would argue that there is much more similarity between a Colombiana and a gringa because of their sex, than difference because of their culture.

We have all noticed, I suppose, that poor Colombianas are impressed by guys with money (and there is little difference here between a gringo with money and a colombiano with money). Considering the circumstances, this is hardly surprising. Poor women everywhere are impressed by guys with money - this is human nature, and nothing specific to Colombia.

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gringoloid (Trustee board) says on May 27, 2007, 09:30:

Desi..... you have to admit that this is an interesting site. Trying to figure out who is who and who is not who is highly entertaining.

Someone is playing us here, or there may be more than one, but it sure is fun!

I've never posted under any other name but my own, so I'm removing myself from any suspicion.

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podborski says on May 27, 2007, 09:31:

OK I'll bite (jeje this site is a lot of fun lately) I don't hate gringas, in fact I left a really good one behind when I came to Colombia (where I spent about 9 months all told before heading to BsAs).

The one I left behind was young (15 years younger than I), beautiful, intelligent, fun, sexy and down to earth (meaning she didn't freak out when I watched a pretty girl go by, or when I raved about how great a person a very attractive co-worker was).

The problem in north america is these women seem few and far between, and if they aren't, they sure are hard to meet.

In Colombia they are everywhere, and don't make you walk over hot coals to get an introduction.

And yes, a lot of gringas have what I consider really bad attitudes and outlooks on what is important in life.

I don't think having a massive house, 2 cars and kids in snobby private schools should be life goals.

Let me give just one little,tiny example of why I am happy I left NA behind:

I was sitting in the Bogotá Beer Company one day and 3 girls and a guy sat down at the next table. One of the women was strikingly beautiful and I couldn't help but notice.

She was wearing a fashionable little hat and as she adjusted it she caught me staring. (Now, in Toronto, this is where you would immediately look away, because she's probably going to scowl back, or complain to her friends and maybe her boyfriend about the creep staring at her, and then maybe the boyfriend feels the need to say something, it's just all bad)

So when she caught me looking I had that momentary 'uh oh' feeling, but then I remembered I was in Colombia and so I didn't look away, just smiled at her. She gave me a big smile in return, asked me where I was from, and invited me to join the table, where she introduced me to her husband (damn!)

So the story didn't have a perfect ending (for me anyway) but I think it just wouldn't happen in NA.

I also like that after about my third or fourth day in Bogotá, the waitresses in at least 2 establishments all knew my name and would wave to me as I walked by.

Never gonna happen in Toronto.

In general, Colombian women just seem more open, friendly and down to earth.

(ok, you can start with the jokes now about me having hundred dollar bills stuck to my forehead)

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Leeroy says on May 27, 2007, 09:32:

"you can see this especially here in Medellín where there are more women than men"

My girlfriend and her (female) friends have often lamented the above, but at a national level. "In Colombia", they say, "there are more women than men".

Are there?

Being the nerd that I am, I went on the CIA world factbook to check it out, and (sure enough) there are a few more women than men. But this is the same as in all countries, men die earlier, so of course there are more women:

Population: 42,954,279 (July 2005 est.)
Age structure: 0-14 years: 30.7% (male 6,670,950/female 6,516,371)
15-64 years: 64.2% (male 13,424,433/female 14,142,825)
65 years and over: 5.1% (male 968,127/female 1,231,573) (2005 est.)
Median age: total: 26.04 years
male: 25.14 years
female: 26.93 years (2005 est.)
Sex ratio: at birth: 1.03 male(s)/female
under 15 years: 1.02 male(s)/female
15-64 years: 0.95 male(s)/female
65 years and over: 0.79 male(s)/female
total population: 0.96 male(s)/female (2005 est.)
Infant mortality rate: total: 20.97 deaths/1,000 live births
male: 24.92 deaths/1,000 live births
female: 16.89 deaths/1,000 live births (2005 est.)
Life expectancy at birth: total population: 71.72 years
male: 67.88 years
female: 75.7 years (2005 est.)

"Go to a bar", the girls tell me, "and there will be 4 girls to every guy..."

I personally haven't noticed this phenomenon, but they all seem convinced that it's true. How can this be? Where are all the guys?

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billyb says on May 27, 2007, 09:43:

You are right Desi. I apologize to Dr. W... ....

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David in Idaho says on May 27, 2007, 10:18:

podborski, you summed it up That is exactly the way I see it too. Thanks for taking the bait and spelling it out so well. If anyone wants to attack you, I'll back you up!

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jinksmiester says on May 27, 2007, 10:23:

well put waterdawg

A man is not old until regret takes the place of dreams

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Waterdawg says on May 27, 2007, 10:57:

Thank you ! There always two side to a story . Bottom line folks is folks # 1 ; If you don't like it here/there get your ass in gear and move . Don't fix the blame - Fix the problem !

Oh yea , I may have some years & Miles on me , but I ain't ready to call it quits just yet .. I still love to look at beautiful Lady's no matter what the age .. And Colombia is Blessed ( and I mean Blessed ) with some of the most lovely and charming women in the world ! That ain't a bad thing !

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CaritadeAngel says on May 27, 2007, 11:25:

It's also blessed With handsome charming men. But we should not all loose our judgement over it all.

My apologies Doctor, it seems you are the genuine sort.

Susi, just be careful, my friend, thats all. They are not all sweetness and light.

Carita

"I hope I never say anything worth quoting".

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Cerealkiller says on May 27, 2007, 11:43:

Pod they know my name too!!! And they have security camera pics saying "if you see -name-, dont sell her any booze, she likes it a little bit too much."

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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podborski says on May 27, 2007, 13:47:

jaja I believe you CK They have my picture up too, but the warning says 'don't let him sit beside overly friendly colombianos who delight in buying him strange blue and green flaming cocktails that invariably lead to near unconsciousness and a severe inability to remember where he's staying'

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Simon says on May 27, 2007, 14:12:

"She was wearing a fashionable little hat and as she adjusted it she caught me staring. (Now, in Toronto, this is where you would immediately look away, because she's probably going to scowl back, or complain to her friends and maybe her boyfriend about the creep staring at her, and then maybe the boyfriend feels the need to say something, it's just all bad)

So when she caught me looking I had that momentary 'uh oh' feeling, but then I remembered I was in Colombia and so I didn't look away, just smiled at her. She gave me a big smile in return, asked me where I was from, and invited me to join the table, where she introduced me to her husband (damn!)

So the story didn't have a perfect ending (for me anyway) but I think it just wouldn't happen in NA.
"

----------------------------------------------------------

Podborski,


Dude, that's a good story and it's so true!! Those women in the north can be some real unfriendly...how is that agressive and rude women are called in english? Ah yes...BITCHES!!

BTW, this Susylinda sounds like one of those snobby, pretentious, self-hating Colombianas who have it in for Colombian men. Her Colombiano probably dumped her 'Betty la fea'-looking ass for a prettier girl...awww pobrecita!!

"DON'T FOK WITH COLOMBIA!!"-----Simon

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Portena says on May 27, 2007, 14:30:

Maybe latin americans are just more friendly and socially outgoing (in general) than North Americans and gringo/gringa North Americans in particular. I haven't been to Colombia yet, but in other South American countries the men were quite friendly and flirtatious (in a charming not perro kind of way). Most gringos I know - good hearted, honest, lovable fellows - just don't seem to have this talent.

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Miguel_Clavo says on May 27, 2007, 18:11:

Dont flatter yourself, UCLown.....you are only one of the trolls here, little cowpokey.....my arch-nemesis? not even in my league, Mr Pastyness....=),,,and you call that laying into the poor bastard? not even close there either...laying into someone is closer to the "The Great Fall of Texas" post of mine directed to the many clown faces of yours....including the buffoons bum one of you...=)

Dr Watson....you claim to be a long time lurker, yet you are totally unaware of the troll problem and multiple screenname posters here???

at Desi.....oh, i forgot...the 24 hour hour rule here...ok


Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo =)..aka, DragonSlayer..2-0..Colombia es pasión!

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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CaritadeAngel says on May 27, 2007, 18:23:

Bitchin' about bitchin'. And to my everlasting sadness and exasperation, also a feature of British culture.

I see no difference in the put-downs and general bitchiness of the men - Simon, (or whoever you are) is a case in point. It isn't that North American women are bitchy. Its that the entire American culture is bitchy, orientated towards sniping, put-downs and one-upmanship, fed on an endless diet of rejection TV and terrible comedy (where sniping at people is considered funny). Yeah, I would rather eat my own hair than live in it or raise my kids in it. I don't blame any of you for a second for trying to escape it, of course, as long as you don't bring the bitchiness with you, and you act with justice in other cultures.

But scarcely a day goes by here without the men - mostly North American, but the odd brit too - having a self-indulgent bitch-fest. And my, don't they know how to bitch? They bitch like Paris Hilton. They bitch like friggin' Rosie O'Donnell. Except that because they are men, no-one calls it for what it is. Allow me to be the first. Gentlemen, many of you are loud-mouthed bitches. And I mean that in the most strictly heterosexual sense of the word.

Having raised a their children for two generations to be materialistic, soulless consumers, gringos come here and think (how typical) that they can buy love, between bitching sessions about the women you “escaped” from. North American Man, (and sadly, British Man): you moan about your women but look at how you raise your sons - and your daughters.

I'd rather live with a philandering horns-planter with a civil tongue in his head than a nasty, bitchy man, who only opens his gob to put his wife and kids down. If it's true about those nasty bitchy women (it must be if the men here are anything to judge a culture by) then that is the society which you created. And evidently, a culture you are perpetuating, not changing. So welcome gentlemen, to the rest of the world but remember, leave your bitchiness in North America (and the new "cool" Britannia). Or as ye give, so ye shall receive.

And before anyone starts on about my so-called leftist tendencies, I do not view the religion of consumerism to be the same thing as capitalism.

"I hope I never say anything worth quoting".

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flatworld says on May 27, 2007, 19:32:

Gesh CA, you're just all full of love aren't you.

By the way. Isn't it consumerisms that drives prosperity. Wouldn't that be the liberator of the Colombian women that are currently forced to sell their bodies to the swarms of gringo sex tourists? On the one hand you try to convince us you're an advocate of the poor and destitute, on the other you want to slander the mechanism that would lift them out of poverty. You're not really sure what you want are you.....except to rant in a spiraling petulant frenzy.

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CaritadeAngel says on May 27, 2007, 20:33:

Consumerism? I think you will find its actually debt - or consumer credit - that drives British and American "prosperity". By now, pay latter, and through the nose.

Real wealth (and well-being) generation is a different matter. The idea that you are only worth something as a human being when you buy stuff is the fuel to all of your frustrations about home Flat, if only you knew it.

Personally I prefer to read than shop. Unless I'm shopping for books.

I am full of love, which is why I challenge those who would commit atrocity upon it, being incapable of love themselves.

But I suppose your average troll here is all sweetness and light eh?

"I hope I never say anything worth quoting".

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echyde says on May 27, 2007, 21:33:

This forum scares the shit out of me at times. I sometimes feel like I am one of the only ones that met my Colombian fiancée without any preconceived notions. I also don't get the hatred toward gringas, either. I met my fiancée by chance, and I certainly didn't base a bit of our relationship on expectations of her because she was from Colombia. Her being from Colombia, in fact, had absolutely nothing to do with our relationship. I love her for who she is -- not because I think she might be easy to control or easier to satisfy because she's from Colombia.

I've always treated her as an equal. CaritadeAngel is absolutely right when it comes to how I think about equality. If she wants a career (which she does), or wants to wait to have kids (which shes does), then I am fine with it. If she wanted something different I'd be fine with it as well. Before we decided to get married we created a life plan and decided what we both wanted. There are no conflicts here. I treat her with the respect that she deserves and demands. Part of the problem is those that allow themselves to be taken advantage of. While I have plenty of the sympathy for the poor, and I do understand the problems in Colombia and how it works, I cannot have much respect for sex workers, those who abuse them, and for folks that engage in sex tourism.

Should Prostitution be legal? I'm fairly torn on that issue. I see no real way to make it illegal -- it is a foolhardy fight to try to fight it. However, let's compare Sex Tourism and Prostitution in Colombia to that in Germany or other European countries. When it is regulated, safe, and people are not allowed to take advantage of each other it is a much more palatable thing. American men that fly down to Colombia to engage in sex tourism are sick fucks for the most part. I don't believe their lies that they can get a woman anywhere and that they just want a relationship with no string attached. You can get that in the good 'ole US. You do not have to go to Colombia for it. I'm sure there are men that don't take advantage of the women or abuse them -- and for that I have much less of a problem with such a situation.

I'm no troll, I've been reading this board for months. I've never really posted in a thread like this. I've always come here for information and help. However, I no longer feel I can sit by idly while people are degraded here. Some of you people here are real pigs, and I can see why you have to exploit Colombia to get sex or live a good life. You couldn't make it in the United States where people don't put up with that shit.

I love Colombia. It has it problems. I think there a lot of people that take advantage of Colombia because of that, and some of them post here. Sometimes I wonder if the lack of human decency and respect here is because of the people this board has attracted. I post on plenty of other message forums, and I've rarely seen the amount of stupidity, hatred, and degradation of fellow humans as I see on this board.

Some of you may be joking in your posts and replies. I'm sure there's a fair amount of sarcasm that is bandied about in the posts here. However, I'm positive that some of it is real. It is sad to see such a lack of morals in some of the posts on this forum. Not just for what is said, but what people claim to do, and how they see nothing wrong with it. I'm by no means a perfect person. I've made my mistakes in life along the way. I'm also not a leftist, conservative christian fanatic, nor do I have an agenda. I'm just a College Student who expects more out of humanity. Especially those that should know better -- like -- for instance, those of you that grew up in the United States and had a good life. You should know better.

I treat my Colombian fiancée like I would treat any girlfriend or fiancée. I treat my Colombian friends like I treat my American friends. Yes, there are cultural differences, and there is the whole concept of giving papaya and getting taken advantage of. I'm no naive school lad -- I'm a seasoned traveler who has both an education and street sense.

Sorry for rambling and making a post that was too long. I realize it will be glossed over and filed away as a troll or "someone else who doesn't get how easy it is to exploit Colombia." The difference is that I will sleep great tonight. Will some of you?

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goin_south says on May 27, 2007, 22:14:

When you get old, like Marquez...... Rubito, you may want that HOT SHOWER, To awaken your bones in the morning. Maybe you can arrange your eating, so that you only take a dump in the morning, right before the shower, and trade-in the toilet paper for some hot water. I'm guessing, your still consuming soap.

Voy para del Sur

Why Not Colombia?..........Stay Tuned, for more.... utterly worthless, self-indulgent gobbets of nonsense.

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lochdhu says on May 27, 2007, 22:38:

^Colombian TreeHugger??? lol, come to boise, we got lot of treehuggers here that will share there bath water with you.

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jinksmiester says on May 27, 2007, 23:05:

Seems to be a lot of man bashing on here latley....colombian men are bad..north american men are all sex tourists...are all the woman on here having pms or is it mad cow disease..or are they just angry at men in general because they feel they have been dumped or mistreated by a man who left them for someone else?...It does,nt seem to matter who you are, if your a man your bad...Mabee they need to take a look in the mirror or inside themselves to discover the real problem and quit trying to judge others.There is good and there is bad..and all the preaching in the world is not gonna change people to your liking.At some point opinions turn into nagging and preaching...give it rest...colombian men are not all dogs...and north american men are not all sex tourists or guys just looking for tits/ass with no brain.

A man is not old until regret takes the place of dreams

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houstongal (Trustee board) says on May 27, 2007, 23:34:

Response to Rubito In response to your question, yest I do believe there would be someone who could fall in love with the person you described BUT there aren't MANY who would. The pool of women who would be attracted to such a man would be much smaller than for the man who would be more "mainstream." Those women exist, but there are just not many of them in the world (and there aren't many of these kind of men either). So if one wants to be different than the majority, then he would have to accept the fact that it may take a while before he finds the woman who is attracted to such a man. If you are familiar with the bell-curve, such a person you described would be at either ends of the curve (sorry, my educational background has warped my view of the world). As to whether or not such a woman exists in Medellin or Bogota...I can't answer that question. My guess is such a woman would not be found in the mainstream either and could perhaps be found in conventional places.

"It is now official: there's no place on earth where you will not find a Peruvian band." David Sedaris

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on May 28, 2007, 03:09:

It's just my recommendation " at Desi.....oh, i forgot...the 24 hour hour rule here...ok" (Miguel_Clavo)
There isn't really any such rule. I said that because I thought you guys were a little too fast jumping on the new posters here. I know that I once said that I believed Utopia Cowboy wrote ALL the posts here, but now I believe I was wrong: I think it's just about a third of all posts that come out of his keyboard.

Rubito, yes, I believe there are such women, even in Colombia.

echyde, excellent post.

Cheers,
Desi



"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe
they are free." —Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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susylinda says on May 28, 2007, 05:38:

To answer a question I hear on here I suppose from Colombian men? They ask who are these dogs cheating with if not with the women. They like to assume that the women must be equal to the dog that they are. This is how they justify their behavior. The truth is this;

If you ask a Colombian guy if he has a girlfriend he is programmed to say NO, even if he does have one. He is very good at maintaining several relationships at one time. The women do not know. This has happened to me, so I know.

There is also another very scary thing here and that is that people even your friends will not tell you if you are being cheated on. You will always be the last to know.

So who do these guys cheat with? Prepagos and let's not mention a very healthy prostitution racket going on. Then women who don't know their man is in a relationship. You can have an amigo here for some time and never know he has a girlfriend. In particular if their job is like a doctor or something on that line.

Are all women angels? No I know they are not and the ones that are bad are going to cheat on you. That is just who they are. The good ones are not going to cheat on you.

I am making some gross generalizations here I know that so please forgive me but sometimes in making generalizations you can find the norm.

Oh and for you that are still troll hunting asking me about my English. What do you think I should be swinging from a tree or something? I was University educated in the US. Does that make me a troll? Maybe you are just not used to an opinionated Colombian woman? Maybe you should go rescue some poor girl from the barrio and she will keep her mouth shut to have you put food in her mouth and jeans on her tail?

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susylinda says on May 28, 2007, 05:45:

Oh and as far as trolls looks like you scared off Dr Watson. Gee and the ones who did it have so much to say. This is their playground it seems to come and goof off and play moderator. 24 hour rule? What they heck is that? Maybe you should stick to a content rule? Gee I don't know maybe some poster like this Miguel character who never has anything to say but is paranoid and dillusional and is disruptive to my post should be a labeled a troll.

To me that would be more just than to put that label on Dr Watsons post? We are not people here we are our posts, we are content. This is the internet is it not? You check your personal identity at the door and you are then judged by your content. Let's try to stick to that on my post please. If you want to fulfill some need to hunt out someone go play on another post please. Or maybe just try growing up...

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Waterdawg says on May 28, 2007, 05:47:

One size fits all or , my way or the highway ! .. You see it in the States and everywhere you go these days , lack of tolerance .. I don't know if its a generation thing or just a under 40 thing ..lol ..There are a lot of angry folks in the world , and its every one else's fault that they are mad,or hurt , or what ever ..

The he /she thing has really gotten out of hand since I was a young man , thats for sure ! Some time I'm glad to be a " Mature Man " of 50 (I said sometimes , lol )

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susylinda says on May 28, 2007, 06:00:

Also I know some gringos are dogs coming here and I am not seeking them out necessarily but they are providing us Colombianas with another option. Until our men get out of the 40's and understand that we women are not their mothers who will put up their their prepagos and girlfriends... Thanks gringos for that! You are making the Colombiano very jealous! haha Maybe he will straighten his act up and we can reclaim our homegrown.

I also think we owe something to the gringa who has blazzed a trail for us to be independent productive in the workplace and still maintain our femininity. Which is one thing I think the gringa could learn from us. ;)

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Leeroy says on May 28, 2007, 06:12:

I don't like the argument that "Consumerism in the West is too much nowadays", it presupposes that a) The West is more consumerist/materialistic than other cultures, and b) that it is more so than before.

I don't think either are true.

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miamimike says on May 28, 2007, 06:20:

SusyLinda, its a Fallacy to belive that Married Colombian women do not cheat and that is across all income and Educational levels. Cheating (women) in Colombia is not limited to any level nor length of time in a Marriage. A Bogota friend of mine has been cheating on her husband for over 20 years and she knows how to cover her tracks well,,,I'm still here as a recipient LOL,,,has nothing to do with lack of Material goods, money ect. I know in some of those Internet Marriage agencies they harp on fidelity ect but that is a Fast Selling point that foreign men like to hear.Its not true that the Colombian Woman is any more loyal then any other woman on the planet,,,In reality it simply isn't true if you have spent any time in Colombia or any other central/south American country,,,its pervasive in the Culture. Takes Two to tango; the Colombian male has to have a willing partner to cheat with,,,and there is no shortage in Colombia,,,

Avatar Legend: Bush "If any of you Reporters are wondering, it was a Size 10"

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cayita says on May 28, 2007, 06:20:

I don't see how I could date a forigner? Not that I have any problem with them and I can sure relate to the dog problem among Colombians.
But, I just don't see how I could or would want to carry on a long distance relationship with a forigner. Thiose type relationships are very hard. I would instead tend to avoid that type of situation but you know love happens adn then before you know it you are in one. I just wouldn't seek it out so if I were to date a forign guy he would have to be living here.

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Leeroy says on May 28, 2007, 06:33:

Serious relationships when a couple are living on different continents are out of the question, surely. Consentir, abrazar and besar are three verbs that come to mind when it comes to relationships - none of which are possible over a phoneline (or webcam!).

But people can and do maintain relationships "on pause" over long distance, I did (for two years) with an ex-girlfriend, chatting occasionally on MSN and sending emails. After all that, I got back together with her!

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CaritadeAngel says on May 28, 2007, 06:34:

Jinks - my cycle is just fine
Like Rubito's: I knew we'd find some common ground somewhere Rubito. And I also agree with you that if you want to pull, be a musician :D
Personally, I couldn't give a flying fruitbat if you went to work on a unicycle juggling machetes (I saw that once, it was kinda cool). I don't have a car either: at home or in Colombia. Neither does my man. I never asked him even if he could drive.

I think the correct phrase is "sex-tourist player" bashing, for which I make no apologies. I have no objections to men. Or gringos.

Nowhere, but nowhere, have I ever said that "all" gringos are sex tourists. That is patent nonsense in the same way that the frequent statement that "all" American women (or British women) are "fat" or "golddiggers" or all articulate women are "bitches" or "feminazis" and all who object to sex-tourism are somehow "leftists" (I never got the logic there).

But all decent people are pissed off by both trolling and sex tourism.

Susi - I know many Colombian men that are not dogs - who are faithful and devoted husbands, help in the house etc. Believe it or not. How do I know? In the family I live with, the man does most of the cooking. It is incredibly dangerous to make a judgement of a man solely on his nationality. If you want to meet people of different nationalities and hang out with them, make sure you're with the cultured set and are doing something else other than clubbing. Get a job teaching gringos Spanish, or set up your own business. If a quality gringo is what you want, you need to know how to spot a quality guy: no matter the culture.

"I hope I never say anything worth quoting".

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flatworld says on May 28, 2007, 08:22:

Economics 101 Debt is good! Credit is even better. I know that's a difficult concept for you but it's true.

Obviously you've no tolerance for anyone who acts, thinks, or believes differently than you CA. That's why you've buried yourself in a 3rd world nation. What the hell do you care how America and Brittan are spending their money? You're a racist and a anarchist. Do you have ties to FARC?

What, you think you impress me because you read? How many people is that feeding? Have you opened a business that provides real paying jobs for the people of Colombia? Oh, that's right, to do that you'd need "consumers". You might even have to cater to the pigs of the western world. Forget it, let the people starve.... You've been locked up in your room way too long. Take a trip to India and see what western consumerism has done for them. 20 - 30% annual pay increases, and a whole new population of, dare I say, consumers. People of Colombia, open your doors to western ways. Promote TLC and prosper.

Whatever gave you the idea that I'm frustrated with "home" was derived in your own delusional mind. America rocks! That's why the line to get a visa is sooooo long.

Love goes hand and hand with acceptance, of which you clearly have none. Take a pill or something. Settle down, get a grip...

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Portena says on May 28, 2007, 09:22:

Rubito Regarding your observation: "But another thing I noticed, I will get flirty looks and sometimes comments from women, in clubs, on the subway, etc. wherever, BUT when I'm on my bike, or as soon as they see the bike, or even hear mention of it, all bets are off."

This may only be a factor in the US where so many people own cars, but I think unless you're a poor, young college student a lot of people will make more negative than positive assumptions about why you don't have a car and ride a bike. They will probably think you have a history of DUIs and a suspended license, and the long miserable, history of problems that tends to go along with that situation rather than thinking that you are highly invested in protecting the environment. Probably be a good idea to mention your concerns about the environment before a potential date sees the bicycle.

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Miguel_Clavo says on May 28, 2007, 09:48:

Ahh...pobrecitaaa, SuzyQ.....this too much for you? "Hmmm......
susylinda
view contact
History
Member for:
47 min 42 sec

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo =)..aka, DragonSlayer..2-0..Colombia es pasión!

By Miguel_Clavo at Sun, 05/27/2007 - 02:29 | edit | replyJust my opinion..."

sorry to inform you but that WAS in response to your CONTENT....what part of that dont you understand?

"Maybe you should stick to a content rule? Gee I don't know maybe some poster like this Miguel character who never has anything to say but is paranoid and dillusional and is disruptive to my post should be a labeled a troll."

wow, i have been called worse things than a troll, so set you heart free and call me what you fancy...=) If you do not want your post analyzed and discussed, would it not be best to discuss it with a therapist who has confidentiality restrictions?

"who never has anything to say"...oh, i have plenty to say..dont worry your little self....

Miguel_Clavo =)..aka, DragonSlayer..2-0..Colombia es pasión!

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Miguel_Clavo says on May 28, 2007, 09:50:

at echyde...........excellent post.......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo =)..aka, DragonSlayer..2-0..Colombia es pasión!

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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podborski says on May 28, 2007, 10:05:

I know the girl for you, rubito but she lives in the czech republic :(

She and I used to argue all the time over my not re-using plastic shopping bags and whether or not McDonalds was the scourge of the planet.

She's the one woman I actually wanted and tried to marry, but she chose the moody czech childhood boyfriend over me. I think my being too materialistic probably had something to do with it.

Anyway, I was afraid of just how far apart we were on some things. She's definitely the only woman I've known who would get mad because I paid $4 for front row tickets to see an opera in some fabulous concert hall in Prague, instead of letting her buy much worse seats for 50 cents each. (at the time they had different official seats and prices for tourists and locals)

I do think there are women like you describe in Colombia, but maybe about as many as in NA, which is to say, few.

I don't blame women for wanting some financial security, especially if they have never had it in their lives. I only blame the ones who have fallen for the trap of thinking a 6000 sq foot house is a necessity.

Probably the real reason I never married is that my lifestyle is a bit unusual, and if I screw up taking a big risk I only have to worry about myself, not how am I going to feed a wife and kids too.

I used to be one of those materialist types too, and didn't even realize it. When I finally did, what a great feeling of liberation it was to sell everything I owned.

But I'm not dogmatic about it. I still like, and want, nice things. It's just that now the house I want is about 1200 sq feet, well made, with a lake view. I have 2 good suits, not 17.

I don't worry about using paper products, because trees are (or can be) an infinite resource. Trees grow every day, thanks to that unlimited source of energy we have that shows up every morning.

But I also don't like waste, and I sure wish there would be a way to get rid of those huge, half empty, smoke bellowing collectivos.

I used to ride a bike everywhere when I lived in Tokyo, great way to get around, but I'd never mention that to a girl! No way I would ride one in Bogotá (except on the ciclovia, which is great). It's WAY too dangerous, IMHO.

So we don't only disagree on arequipe...

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podborski says on May 28, 2007, 10:09:

'if you are over 30 years old and you're still riding the bus, you've done something wrong' was how one friend of mine put it.

I think that's a prevailing 'north american' viewpoint.

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Miguel_Clavo says on May 28, 2007, 10:13:

CA..you mean like this, sans the machetes??? flying fruitbat?? well, this was taken yesterday at the Carnval San Francisco 2007 parade....=)



Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo =)..aka, DragonSlayer..2-0..Colombia es pasión!

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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podborski says on May 28, 2007, 10:16:

The US economy is in trouble because too many people are buying too many things on credit.

I'm not opposed to consumers, but people seem to want it all, right now, whether they can really afford it or not. And they want things that are massively inefficient, depreciating assets like Lincoln Navigators and McMansions.

Meanwhile the 'competition' is delaying consumption and building factories.

Greenspan was far too easy for far too long, IMHO. I still don't know what to think of him, seeing as he was so highly regarded by Ayn Rand.

I look forward to reading his memoirs, 'cause I think he must know something that the rest of us don't.

Or maybe he just goofed.

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Wastelandlive says on May 28, 2007, 10:24:

Susylinda "and the same look factor"

Tell me exactly what you mean by that, and I'll trade you an opinion.

Wasteland

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webmanco says on May 28, 2007, 10:33:

Cars, Planes , Flotas To judge for what we do not posses or what we own is as bad as gossip. Many girls might fall for the wrong first impression.

Some young girls might fall for older guys sometimes for money but also because in their life there was a missing father or male figure.

Some people will look down on people who travel by bus or who stay at hostels, or do camping for that matter.

Susylinda dealing with people with multiple personalities is a hard task, let alone trolls who hide thru the internet signing with different usernames.

Guessing who is who it is not entertaining so that is why it is fine to be on full time alert.

I am not foreign I am Colombian, other usernames I used somewhere else were Paisano and Webcol, had to change the first one for the second for the website failing to authenticate me.

I would not mind going to work skating or using the bike, but sometimes you are in a hurry and those transportations just won´t do it. Plus you get there sweating and if raining then worse. The best transportation method it the motorcicle, but then again there is some prejudice against motorcicle´s drivers.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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susylinda says on May 28, 2007, 10:53:

now see that is another difference between someone in the US and Europe and someone in Colombia. There you have droves of people to protect you even when you are being an A-hole. So you have so many A-holes free to be A-holes. Here in Colombia flies simply get swatted into a greese spot.

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CaritadeAngel says on May 28, 2007, 11:04:

Susi... you are absolutely right. lol.

"I hope I never say anything worth quoting".

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Man Tequila says on May 28, 2007, 11:17:

Dear me! What a chorus of groans, cries and bleatings! What a rag-bag of singular happenings! . . . Bleat, Watson, unmitigated bleat!

(The Adventure of the Red Circle, A.C. Doyle)

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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Miguel_Clavo says on May 28, 2007, 11:22:

Good post Webmanco.....! btw, susy, if i wanted to post that you were a troll, i would have said just that...i dont waste words unnecessarily...but your thread is the same as a bazillion ones already posted by first time posters....of which you would get the same responses as those bazillion other similar threads since 1998..hence, your longevity posting on here was posted.....but, as all things, everyone will get over this, eventually, even Dr Watson....=)

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo =)..aka, DragonSlayer..2-0..Colombia es pasión!

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on May 28, 2007, 11:22:

I feel kind of sorry for you guys because up here it's not like that at all. Yes, the guys with good looks, steady jobs and easy-going personalities are popular with girls, but the amouint of money he's making a month is not as important as the fact that he has an income and I would say that the personality and the compability are the decisive factors after the initial looks/attraction/chemistry issues have been dealt with.

There are lots of guys who don't drive here and yet have married beautiful women, perhaps she drives a car or both of them ride bikes to work. After the basic necessities are well-covered and a little something put aside in the savings account the money stops being something that people talk about.

There are superficial and materialistic people here too, of course, but somehow I just don't seem to bump into them all that often. Perhaps I just move in wrong circles.

Cheers,
Desi

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe
they are free." —Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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CaritadeAngel says on May 28, 2007, 11:47:

I am stunned and amazed. Do you know Rubito, I actually agree - even about paying for sex being a more honest transaction (doesn't make it right though). I've seen some pretty mercenary activities between men and women in my time. South Korea is the centre of gravity for them.

As a woman of course, I can always pull, I don't have to put in the slightest bit of effort – guess that's the great injustice of it all, really isn't it. I was a semi-professional (musician, not hooker!) nothing in your league, I used to watch “my boys” (my band) pull like crazy, and yes, I would agree with you in every way. I never used to drink when I performed - would you drink at work in the office? – because I saw the damage the pint-swilling was causing the lads.

The drummer never pulled like the guitarist though, why is that?

Unfortunately, you are also right about one-night stands and drunk girls, and you may even have my respect there. I view that as a form of rape, and certainly the girl can't really enjoy that because alchohol blocks oxytocin (necessary to have orgasms), and the nervous system in general.

"I hope I never say anything worth quoting".

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podborski says on May 28, 2007, 12:06:

I think europeans have a better way of looking at those things desi, and I'm pretty sure they have a generally more intelligent view of what a good lifestyle is, as do some people on the left coast of both Canada and the USA.

Seems to me that north americans are slowly coming around. I think it will be interesting to see what happens IF there is a NA recession. A lot of people will lose their McMansions and maybe that will be a lesson that needed to be learned?

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aztec says on May 28, 2007, 12:19:

Leeroy "Consumerism in the West is too much nowadays".

I would take the position there is not enough.

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podborski says on May 28, 2007, 12:37:

I think it's a big misconception aztec Almost everyone thinks consumption is what drives economies. I disagree, it's saving and investment that drive things by making FUTURE consumption possible.

Right now I think the cart is before the horse in the good ol USA.

But it's just my best guess, I don't claim to be able to predict the future. But the dollar is falling hard for a reason...

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CaritadeAngel says on May 28, 2007, 12:45:

I'd have to go with pod on this one Wealth creation is about building capasity, not consuming resources. The dollar is in deep crap, however, exports will become cheeper which may be a good thing in some areas.

"I hope I never say anything worth quoting".

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Leeroy says on May 28, 2007, 13:17:

Aztec
I think that depends Aztec

I think that depends on whether you see "consumerism" as a cultural psychology or as a pattern of economic activity. In any case, I follow your point.

Consumerism can mean to many "People obsessing over what they can buy" (implicitly over other things, such as friends, family, being a happy and moral person, etc...).

Sure, many people in the West are consumeristic in this sense - but when we point at dirt poor countries and say "well THEY'RE not consumeristic" it is not because of a moral or spiritual advantage that the poor folk might somewhow have, it's because they don't have the opportunity to be consumerist (who cares about which make of flatscreen TV you want when you don't know where your next meal is coming from?). All of this said, it seems to me that the lower-middle classes are sometimes the most consumeristic of all...

I think that consumerism comes with wealth, it is automatic - and takes a lot of character/spiritual training to get out of. Hell, I'm not there yet - I dream of what care I would like to buy, and the amount of inches my flatscreen TV will have when I finally get it.

If a country is "full of consumerism" then this might sound sad, but in fact this suggests that it is economically (and normally politically) stable enough to sustain a population with consumeristic lifestyles. "Consumeristic" countries like Japan, Korea, The US and (say...) Singapore also have pretty good stability, human rights, etc... Those non-consumeristic countries like Sierra Leone don't seem to be doing so well.

I believe the West (which, despite doomsday warnings every now and then, shows no sign of sudden economic and political disaster) is now starting to realise, however, that consumerism (which I define as buying stuff you don't really need to survive) is not the panacea we once perhaps thought it was. Cool toys and expensive stuff doesn't make us happier, and the environmental costs of manufacturing this stuff is becoming ever more apparent.

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Miguel_Clavo says on May 28, 2007, 14:27:

Global Player? now, morphus, i am not sure who coined that phrase, but it is pretty funny......=)

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo =)..aka, DragonSlayer..2-0..Colombia es pasión!

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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