I find this hard to believe

platano says on Apr 24, 2005, 12:45:

More great news! If this is true I am sure the gringos will be spraying it on themselves to destroy their largest illegal cash crop: marijuana. They should soon be doing some constant heavy spraying of gringos and their crops in northern California.

But, hey, they have nothing to worry about because now we know it is safe.

Besides Colombian national parks they can also spray USA national parks and forests where the illegal crops are growing.

Platano
Oxigeno Verde
Foto de Platanito chinito

P.D. I'd like to know who the scientists are at IADAC who did the research and what the methodology was. And the contractual arrangements and the source of all funding.

plátano

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Scalestick says on Apr 24, 2005, 12:52:

Seems to me Platano that one can get whatever result from whateve research he/she is looking or paying for. I hate the use of chemicals on crops for whatever reason. I fail to see how chemicals that can kill other forms of life are good for human consumption. I feel this is one of the reasons for the rise in diseases like cancer in Society today. But to use certain rational to blitze poor unsuspecting people and their neighbouring crops is nothing short of criminal.

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platano says on Apr 24, 2005, 13:02:

You are right, Scalestick... There must be a better way that doesn't involve manufacture of USA chemicals, hiring USA pilots, manufacturing USA aircraft, and spending USA tax dollars for "trainers" to destroy a crop in Colombia whose primary consumers are USA citizens. The USA tax dollars are going to private corporations to carry out operations in Colombia. And according to the report Colombia Coca Cultivation Remains this pattern of transferring USA tax dollars to private corporations will continue indefinitely. It would not be convenient for the business, it would hurt the corporation profit, if the program were to actually succeed.

Platano
Oxigeno Verde
Foto de Platanito chinito

plátano

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Mr. Hollywood says on Apr 24, 2005, 13:15:

About that report Let me preface this by saying I don't like aerial spraying, period. I think it's a bad approach whether in Colombia or in Colombus, Ohio.

But that study was comissioned by the Organization of American States, OAS, hardly a hotbed of pro-USA sentiment. So maybe it merits consideration that the chemical under scrutiny actually doesn't cause the health impacts that have been claimed. Remember, there are good reasons why poor people (looking for cash settlements) and the illegal, coke trafficking groups (looking to stop the spraying) might claim health impacts from the spray program that either don't exist or were caused by other chemicals used in the growing/processing chain. Making cocaine is hardly organic farming.

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Scalestick says on Apr 24, 2005, 13:45:

Cocaine is hardly an organic crop Well I believe it has been grown for how many hundreds of years for domestic use such as tea and for stomach ailments and for enegry to combat lack of food. I drank the tea myself all the time while travelling through Peru and never uffered altitude sickness.

That aside, I don't promote or endorse the use of the crop for the making of cocaine but there has to be a better way of destroying the crops used for this purpose without indisciminate spraying. Since they suppoedly know where these crops are, why not send in troops to hack the stuff down by hand and distribute seeds and promote the benefits of growing different crops. And if you think grow-ops and some pot plantations (except small personal crops) here in Canada are not controled by heavily armed biker gangs, you're sadly mistaken. There's no way we would ever put up with airial bombardment of pot crops here in either Canada or US so why is it acceptable to do it in other countries. And if it is safe, why not do so here at home in Canada or US?

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Scalestick says on Apr 24, 2005, 13:57:

Re: my last posting I shouldn't isolate biker gangs in this matter as there are certainly other criminal elements involved and it's all pretty high tech.

As a side note: even though I don't smoke anymore I wish they would make it legal (pot)so this criminal activity would stop. I can't remember the last time I heard of someone getting killed over a hop crop or a vineyard. Blow is a totally different story and I believe one of the reasons I quit partaking, besides the outrageous price and nil benefits of the whole endeavor and watching some friends of mine spend their last dime on it, was sitting back one day and having some light go on in my head as regards to all the people involved and the destruction along the cocaine trail. Lets just say I wasn't too proud of myself for using and promoting this activity. Since that day of "enlightment" I haven't used it since. Not trying to preach, only expressing my own personal point of view.

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El Chiggerdero says on Apr 24, 2005, 14:20:

Spraying is actually good for coca production.A recent report shows how Coca growers observed over time that spraying did not kill all coca plants, as some coca bushes survived after an eradication spray.They have since cultivated these plants and have developed an herbicide resistant variety of "Round-up Ready", "Super Coca" that cannot be killed with normal coca herbicide.
This variety of Coca also grows very large and contains more cocaine than traditional coca plants.
Since the Super Coca is herbicide tolerant,spraying actually helps the plant by killing competing vegetation; and because it is a bigger plant,less land is required.
There you have it,better living through chemistry.Our tax dollars at work!

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Scalestick says on Apr 24, 2005, 14:32:

El Chiggerdero If this is true, I think we can file it under "shooting oneself in the foot"

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El Chiggerdero says on Apr 24, 2005, 14:36:

SUPER COCA PLANT Here is an article about the Super Coca "Roundup Ready" strain of Coca plant-
http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v04/n1216/a01.html?52542

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Mr. Hollywood says on Apr 24, 2005, 16:26:

Coca vs. Cocaine Scalestick wrote: "Well I believe it has been grown for how many hundreds of years for domestic use such as tea and for stomach ailments and for enegry to combat lack of food."

Yes, this is true. Coca has been grown for centuries. However, industrial scale growing of tons of coca leaves to be drenched in chemicals (acids, acetone, cement, etc.) in order to convert it into cocaine is relatively new.

Personally, when you look at the toxic chemical stew that they use to extract cocaine from coca leaves, it's no wonder a lot of the people in the campo are suffering. And I'm sure they simply dump all those by-products into the closest creek when they're done.

Like I said before, I'm no fan of aerial spraying, but sometimes the actual situation is more complex than "spraying bad, coca-growing campesinos good."

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cdn says on Apr 26, 2005, 08:57:

Just a thought Isn't it mind-boggling, the amout of devastation caused or aided by the use of illegal drugs?
- millions of people displaced, forcibly confined, or killed
- huge amounts of cash going to the perpetrators of the above
- environmental damage caused by the improper handling and disposal of the by-products of cocaine production
- illness and death caused by above
- vast resources spent on eradication, enforcement, and armed conflict
- farmers forced, either by threat of violence or economic necessity, to grow crops subject to chemical eradication
- millions of people in prison
- millions of people sick, finacially ruined, or dead as a result of addiction

In an earlier post, the topic of legalization was brought up. Often, if a person raises the topic of legalization, even for friendly debate, that person is considered hopelessly naive, some kind of degenerate freak, or worse. But there are some compelling arguments that should be made, given the scope of human suffering involved.
- organized crime would be out of the drug business, with less resources for their activities
- farmers could grow whatever crop they please
- production could be regulated for greater environmental and consumer safety
- drug commerce could be taxed, with revenues allocated to drug treatment
- resources currently spent on eradication, enforcement, conflict and prisons could be diverted to eduction, health care, poverty etc
- less people would be in prison, under inhuman conditions, learning how to be better criminals

Prohibition didn't work for alcohol, and it isn't working for other drugs either. Maybe it's time for regular people to talk about alternatives, and Friendly Talkzones might be a good place for that.

In the meantime, much can be done to raise awareness of these issues, so that the use of illegal drugs carries at least the amount of negative stigma as wearing a fur coat.

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lpdiver says on Apr 26, 2005, 09:46:

The war on drugs is Mutually beneficial to the US government and the drug cartels...don't look for it to go away soon.

T

"cook some rice!"

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N2Aquatix says on Apr 26, 2005, 12:31:

Coca-Cola Gee.....here in the USA it used to be an ingredient in Coca-Cola, remember? Oh yeah, that was back before the tobacco and alcohol manufacturing companies muscled cocaine and marijuana out of the common marketplace and into the black market.

Jay

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cdn says on Apr 26, 2005, 12:56:

Right I don't personally remember, but I've heard that about Coca-Cola (does that really translate as Coke-Ass?) I do remember my granny having a cute little bottle of cocaine in her medicine cabinet, for toothaches and stuff. It didn't seem to be a big deal...she didn't "cap" anybody for it, as far as I know.

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N2Aquatix says on Apr 26, 2005, 13:34:

Good One Good one CDN. Ha Ha Ha!!!!!

Jay

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