I am planning on moving to Colombia

ari says on Sep 13, 2004, 03:12:

What?!!!!!

Well that sounds bad if you ask me..... You can't even imagine to have the same quality of life in Colombia than you have in the United States, there's no comparison actually. I'm not discouraging you to go to Colombia and I even plan to do it myself sometime soon (2005) but it's totally unrealistic to think you can live there as you live in the USA. Eventually you can live an American life in Colombia, yes! If you have enough money to buy a house in a superb exclusive neighborhood, shares in the countryclub, an expensive car, etc. etc. etc. I calculate with 500.000 USD you can get something like that ;-) plus colossal maintenance fees. Rememeber, to live a great life actually seems to cost about the same anywhere in the world, no matter how poor the country is. The East meets the West you bet....

Still you'd have to leave your house and the neighborhood, and there's lots of poverty, misery and filth out there. That makes life actually very different.

How hard it would be for you to get a job? Well unemployment has reached at times 20% in Colombia, now it's "only" 11%. So go figure. It also depends on your profession and many other factors, specially your contacts, like anywhere in the world I guess. Still foreigners are very likely to get certain jobs, and I know it from experience.

If you won't be able to come back to the USA I think it's really not a smart move, but that's just my opinion. Unless you have assets or providence funds or will get social security, whatever else.... I don't think it's a smart move. Not at all.

Your brother might be deported? That's really sad, how come? (Maybe I shouldn't even ask).

Anyway... returning to Colombia with the purpose to stay there for good is something that requires a long brainstorming so that you won't get royally screwed in there, you know... not that life in Colombia is so easy. You need to know what you're going to eat and where you're gonna live, if you may find work or not, etc. It's not like going and saying you'll find a job, then you'll rent a home and so you'll live. Never worked like that for anyone there, I guess it doesn't either anywhere in the world, but in some places you really can start from zero.

Don't think Colombia is one of them.

http://ikcenda.tripod.com/philologist

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vladimiro says on Sep 13, 2004, 06:09:

Moving to Colombia I would save a significant amount of cash before moving to Colombia or any developing country for that matter. Jobs in Colombia will never pay enough for you to buy a house, apartment, take vacations, send your kid to College, etc...Even $30K USD, enough to buy a nice apartment, would make a big difference on your standard of living in Colombia.

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Hunter says on Sep 13, 2004, 06:13:

CCHICKG All depends on what standing of living you have in the US. I live very comfartably on 1-2 million pesos (income from the UK) a month in a ordinary neighbourhood (Strata 3) in Medellin. I don't have many of the things that ari has mentioned, but neither do I want them.

Generally I agree with ari, but if you don't need many of the things ari says to have a good standard of living in Colombia.

How hard it is to get a job, depends on your qualifications and more importantly your contacts. Also where you plan on living is very important, in a City or the Countryside etc.
The official unemployment is about 15.5%, with about another 35% of the workforce that is under-employed.

If you can't get back to the USA, I would stay there until you get some feed back from your brother at the very least, he will be able to tell you how bad or good things are in Colombia.

If I was you I would probably stay in the US, until I have enough money to return to Colombia OR you can travel freely between the two Countries to check out if you want to live in Colombia.

Hunter

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Gator says on Sep 13, 2004, 07:09:

Loyality is Great! But... I would follow the advice already posted and not leave the USA if, for whatever reason, you will not be allowed to return (I am assuming you do NOT have legal status).

How much will you need? Hard to say without knowing the life style you now live. I am lucky to have a very good steady income in USD's so I and the wife live well.

I will quote my younger bother when he said, "Don't forget! Living outside the United States is like camping out."

Be sure and read Ari's advice in his post-ESPECIALLY the last two paragraphs. In fact read them at least ten times.

Good luck in whatever you decide,

Gator

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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bjorn says on Sep 13, 2004, 07:59:

I don't live in the USA, but please don't feel sorry for me Gator said:
I will quote my younger bother when he said, "Don't forget! Living outside the United States is like camping out."

Are you serious, Gator? Do you really mean that it's difficult to live a happy life outside the USA (unless you mean camping out is true happiness)? I belive you live in Colombia? Do you feel it's like camping out?

My point: if you have an income, you can live a good happy life in most countries in the world. If you don't have an income , life is difficult wherever you are. The reason many Colombians want to leave the country is mostly due to economic reasons

Bjorn (living in Norway)

(please do not intepret this as if I am starting a debate for or agaist the USA. People from most countries in the richer part of the word seem to think that life can't possible be as good living in a developing or sub-developed country. I am myself seeing this all the time here in Norway, people having difficult understand how I could enjoy living a year in a country like Colombia)

Bjorn

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ari says on Sep 13, 2004, 10:16:

Hi Bjorn,

I certainly won't defend Gator for I truely don't know him but I think I do have something to say..... I think it works like that for all of us, living outside our own countries is really like camping out, specially when you're shifting from social welfare to unemployment and poverty. Of course those concepts are always relative... I've lived south... and I've lived north... so I can tell! I'm not stating it's impossible to live a good life in Colombia or any developing or under-developed country .. and indeed I think a place like that (just like Israel does for me) can bring lots of fulfillment and achievement in your personal life in many levels. Yet we must understand that there's people starving there, people that is homeless and people that doesn't have any health coverage.

We (the westerners - although it's a bit odd I'm including myself in that group sort of) probably are very well aware of it and just don't want to starve, be out of health coverage or homeless... that's the why of so much planning and talking. I love Colombia and specially the people there... but they would be better off with a little bit more of planning. You can't blame that on anyone though, it's mentality and it's also education. But I think we're in the plain right to worry whether we'll have enough money for this week and the next, hot food, running water, insurance, etc.

Like my grandma used to say, the fact that there's people starving for the sake of the world peace doesn't mean you can't join the world peace, but you just don't have to join the starving folks.

Ari

http://ikcenda.tripod.com/philologist

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Gator says on Sep 13, 2004, 14:29:

Bjorn. please do not put words in my mouth.

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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caslug says on Sep 13, 2004, 15:57:

Bjorn, your taking the comment Out of Context "Do you really mean that it's difficult to live a happy life outside the USA - Bjorn"

Bjorn, you have to take Gator's comment in the light it was made, his brother (an american) probably meant(correct me if I'm wrong Gator). USA is our home country(just like Norway is yours) and for an american to live abroad, most of us (not all) eventually return home after a long sojurn abroad. Living away from your home country is like camping, it's can be new, fun & different, but at the end of the camping trip, we go home. Of course, there are exceptions, and some people go native and live out the rest of their lives their new country. It happens in the US quite frequent, people come here as students or tourist, for whatever reason, like it, and stay. I'm sure it happens in Norway too. We call that going native.

As you yourself, stated, you lived a year in Colombia but eventually went home to your home country.

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caslug says on Sep 13, 2004, 15:58:

Bjorn, your taking the comment Out of Context "Do you really mean that it's difficult to live a happy life outside the USA - Bjorn"

Bjorn, you have to take Gator's comment in the light it was made, his brother (an american) probably meant(correct me if I'm wrong Gator). USA is our home country(just like Norway is yours) and for an american to live abroad, most of us (not all) eventually return home after a long sojourn abroad. Living away from your home country is like camping, it's can be new, fun & different, but at the end of the camping trip, we go home. Of course, there are exceptions, and some people go native and live out the rest of their lives their new country. It happens in the US quite frequent, people come here as students or tourist, for whatever reason, like it, and stay. I'm sure it happens in Norway too. We call that going native.

As you yourself, stated, you lived a year in Colombia but eventually went home to your home country.

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litost says on Sep 13, 2004, 18:05:

CChick,

It would be helpful, for starters, if you told us what your current "quality of life" in the US is... I agree in general terms with ari's precautious advice, although it stresses on a very materialistic perspective, which I am aware most people associate with "quality of life". But not all people are alike, I know a lot of people in Colombia who may not have a lot of money and lead happy lives with a good "quality of life" in their personal opinion, and vice-versa in the US and elsewhere.

It just really depends on your expectations, your ability to adapt and what you're looking for in life.

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Gator says on Sep 13, 2004, 20:27:

Thanks Caslug That's close but it is also the things, material mostly, we must leave behind. I am happy here and have a wonderful Colombian wife. But I am lucky to have the $$$ to make the life better than the the average Colombian can afford. I worked hard for that $$$ and made much of it here.

I am very, very happy here but I also know many gringos who were not able to adapt for what ever reason. They sold out and returned to whence they came. ¡Pero así es la vida! Dulce para unos y amarga para otros.

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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CCHICKG says on Sep 13, 2004, 22:28:

I do have a legal status but I am not allowed to leave the US for a certain amount of time so if I leave when things happen for my brother. I would lose the residency I know have. That is why I am looking at there kind of websites to see if it would be worth all of that or not. I live a pretty good life here. I mean I make enough to pay the bills, go out and have fun, and even save a little but I am no where near rich or anything like that. My brother has live in the US since he was 3 years old and I don't want him to suffer in a country where he does not even speak the language. As far as what he did well first let me say we live in "Texas" which has very strict laws but he got in trouble with his friends for being out drinking in a public place at the age of 17 and when the police took him in they sent him to a county jail and after that he was transfered into immigration custody and has been there ever since. He has being trying to fight it but has not won so far he has been there 3 years and counting. He just barely turned 20.

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ari says on Sep 14, 2004, 03:55:

Yikes! Well oh man I read your posting with disappointment, 17 years old? immigration custody? legal battle? Damn! But who's looking after him or legally in charge of his custody? It sounds really complicated. Maybe you should find a good lawyer actually, those state prosecutors and defendants don't seem to me like they do a really great job.

I understand the laws in some places of the USA are pretty strict but this is quite extreme. If your brother has lived in the USA since he was 3 years old I might say he's actually an American, so why would he be deported to Colombia? to live with whom? You mention he doesn't even speak the language, it sounds like something totally out of order.

I just can stress the point of the rest of the guys here, don't leave the USA if you know you might not be able to return, it would be a silly move, no?

Country jail? immigration custody? It really sounds serious, but how could he have been sent to an imigration custody if he's been living in the USA for so far 17 years? I think the best you can do is just to stay in the USA until you can start flying between the 2 countries every once in a while... otherwise I think you might be well doomed, and also your brother.

It's very difficult to think he's going to go back to Colombia for I don't think you can know much about a place you left when you were 3 years old, someone has to help him, no? Again my question is, how can they deport him if he's been living there for so long?

And now I want to go back to the issue of the comfort and I want to explain myself; if you want to live a "real" American life in Colombia, the expat kind of thing it will probably cost you the same than in any other country, BUT if you just want to live a comfortable life, a little bit above the average Colombian then it's not so difficult I think.

I understand your point guys about being too materialistic, true. The problem is that we should be a little bit realistic, it's nice to think about living in Colombia and succeeding doing so but the chance to do it without some kind of financial backing is very difficult. I mean, a Colombian job would never pay off enough for a mortgage or a decent credit card. Unless you're lucky enough to land an expat job with salary in USD and benefits and it's not that companies are opening in Colombia everyday and hiring a hundred expats.

Truth is, no one is saying that it's impossible to be happy in Colombia without a loadshit of money but I do think it's much much easier if you bring some money to start with and to put asides for a rainy day, even to live from until you find a job (which might take a while and still you might earn below the standards of the lowest tax bracket in the states). I think that with enough planning and a bit of cash here and there living in Colombia could be more than plesant, and worthwhile avoiding more rainy days than you should have, for in Colombia you have enough of those.

Bottom line is, money doesn't warrant anything and specially not your happiness, one can be happy anywhere in the world as long as one likes it and adapts to the place. But in Colombia a bit of extra money does help and makes a big difference.

Another thing, it doesn't matter what people says... living abroad is not for everyone. Some people really can take advantage of it and build a great life, some other people just gets frustrated and return home broke. It's an individual thing and maybe it's worth a try finding out if it suits you or not (I'm not talking about CCHICKG - you first get your citizenship and then think of anything else).

Cheers

Ari

http://ikcenda.tripod.com/philologist

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gato-bandido says on Sep 14, 2004, 06:53:

Citizenship

CCHICKG:

Since it seems you are now a permanent resident (have a green card), it is a really good idea to hold on until you can get citizenship like several people suggested. How long do you have until you are eligible?

Also I think you can travel and stay outside the US for up to six months in any twelve month period without putting your green card in danger, assuming you are not in legal trouble yourself. You just need to be careful when you leave or reenter to not raise suspicion that you are planning to abandon your residency, because INS/CIS folks can take your GC away.

If you leave for less than six months and then come back, that time will still count towards your five year residency requirement, according to this page. But you will have to be in the US when you apply for citizenship, and be able to convince them that you are planning to stay there.

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juanalejo says on Sep 14, 2004, 10:16:

Have a good think about it It sounds to me, as if you have applied for political assylum, as you have posted that you do have a legal status but can not travel. Think really hard about it as political assylum cases take a very long time ( I know of a family who after ten years still do not have their passports back, and have no date for permanent residence interview), and nobody grants that at the end of the assylum period they decide you are not a candidate to return to Colombia. I know of a few cases that has happened as many Colombians relying on our country´s reputation applied for assylum and inmigration decided they were really economic inmigrants decided to deport them also after a few years there. Just another point of view for if this is your case.

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caslug says on Sep 14, 2004, 13:11:

Have you talked w/ a lawyer? If you have, then you're doing everything you can. If you haven't you need to right away. You can call and talk w/ a law office for a free consultation. I recommend, contacting at least 3 law office, both criminal&immigration law each. That way you get a general idea of what what chance your brother has to fight this. I'm assuming he didn't seriously injure someone(ie, stabbing or shooting involve), if it's just a scuffle(assult&battery) a decent lawyer will help.

My cousin who is not a US citizen, resident alien, got into a fight, cops were called, threw him in jail and DA was pressing charges(assult&battery). I called 3 lawyers and the general consensus was he PROBABLY won't go to jail, but will get probation & fine. So he hire one of the lawyer, paid $1200. His lawyer got him off complete free, the DA office decide not to pursue the case. Probably because it was more trouble than it's worth, especially for something like fight between two people and no one got hurt beyond a black eye. Don't bother w/ public defender, they'll do the minimum for you.

I don't know what part of the US you're living in, but if it has a major latino population, then they'll be lawyers specialize in immigration and deportation. A good lawyer will be able to navigate thru the legal mess both criminal & immigration law. Don't even try handle legal issue like this on your own.

Now if it's a question of getting deport or going to jail in the US. I would recommend deportation, US jail is bad. At least if you're deport you free and you'll just have to send him money to help him settle in Colombia.

Again, if you've hire a lawyer already, then pls ignore this post.

Good luck!

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vladimiro says on Sep 14, 2004, 13:53:

The Racist Immigration Reform Act
"I understand the laws in some places of the USA are pretty strict but this is quite extreme. If your brother has lived in the USA since he was 3 years old I might say he's actually an American, so why would he be deported to Colombia?"

In the 90s US passed an Immigration Reform Act that made even pidly little ofenses deportable for any non-citizen. Sounds like the poor kid was a permanant resident and got caught with a joint, drinking and driving, got in a fight at a bar, etc. (Many children of immigrants born outside the USA forget to apply for citizenship or for whatever reason just stay as permanent residents their whole lives)...the law allows law enforcement to look for any escuse to get rid of foriegners even if they lived their whole life in the US and don't even speak the language of their country of birth.

If for some reason a permanent resident has to go back to Colombia they need to file a form which allows you to stay outside the US for 2 years, keep your permenant residency status, and still be able to apply for US Citezenship ontime.

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ari says on Sep 14, 2004, 14:00:

http://ikcenda.tripod.com/philologist

Yeah I can sympathize with that... it really sucks (sorry for the bad language). Unfortunately similar laws have been enforced in many other countries like Germany, leave asides Israel... where as long as you're not a Jew even paying your taxes late or holding an overdraft more than a couple of days automatically grants you the honourable title of criminal. Damn! we should go back to Colombia, it's banana republic anyway! ;-) Enjoy the movie.

Ari

http://ikcenda.tripod.com/philologist

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CCHICKG says on Sep 15, 2004, 23:50:

Well that is what our family has a problem with. He was 17 years old never been in trouble in school, with the police, or any where else. All his friends were let go the same night but they were all white my brother is still trying to fight his case. We have had 3 different lawyers but they have all turned out to be bad lawyers who all they wanted was money. He did not have any drugs or any weapons. He did not hurt anyone but they still have him in custody. He is more American then Colombian but they don't understand that I guess. Not only are they making my family suffer but his family. He was not even able to see his son be born. And his son is missing out on a relationship with his daddy. I am sure the US government has a reason for their laws but sometimes they are very extreme. Especially since I live in Texas and texas has some crazy extreme laws. I am just hoping for the best for my brother but that is all I can do because his case is still up in the air.

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caslug says on Sep 17, 2004, 11:18:

CCHICKG have you tried contacting the ACLU(American Civil Liberty Union) or latino right's group? It's definitely worth one or two phone call to see what they recommend. I would highlight couple of items, 1) your brother is a LEGAL allien, 2) he has son that is an US Citizen, 3) his ONLY crime was drinking underage, & 4) his other whites friends drinking were release. If the ACLU can free some prisoner of war from Cuba, they SHOULD be able to free a legal resident from INS. I'm not a legal expert, i'm only telling you what I would do if this was me. In my experience w/ US legal system, it is blind, so sometimes you have to use "legal" force(ie, competent lawyers, local politicians, connections, etc.,) to open's it's eyes.

Pls keep us post, because THREE YEARS in custody seem VERY excessive for underage drinking. I mean, if they deported him 3 yrs ago, then at least he'll be free in Colombia.

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CCHICKG says on Sep 18, 2004, 00:58:

thank you we tried contacting lulac and also telemundo ran a story on him here locally but that has not worked so far. But I will try that one next. Next week he has a meeting which will let him know if he can fight it or not. We will see what happens but i am going to contact that organization and maybe they can try to help. I really appreciate it.

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webmanco says on Sep 18, 2004, 20:50:

Buena Suerte I hope everything comes out right. And wish that your bother doesn't spend more time in that place, waiting on a legal issue. Based on politics. Living in Colombia is not a nightmare, It is not't heaven but cann't and should no be compare with any other country, is like social clases or estratos.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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