I-864 contract enforcement

lpdiver says on Sep 29, 2008, 12:21:

I have in fact heard accounts of exactly this...none of them first hand though. They were from an immigrant attorney that I have contact with.

ts

"cook some rice!"

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sanandressi says on Sep 29, 2008, 12:34:

Here is the kicker...the same federal government that may try and make you pay allows ILLEGALS to get loans for a home and hence a $700BN bailout. part of it anyway. The government ICE, knows the illegals are here and does nothing.

"This train will stop in Tucumcari"

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Sonny says on Sep 29, 2008, 13:47:

and the subject is????

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ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Sep 29, 2008, 14:00:

sanadressi, Why do you love injecting your sour grapes nonsense into any topic, regardless of how off topic it may be? Are those illegal aliens down the street from you not paying their mortgage? How do you even know that they're illegal? Did you check their papers? Do you have any statistics on the percentage of bad loans attributable to illegal aliens or are you just talking out of your ass again? Your inferiority complex is really quite pathetic.

BTW, ICE finally does seem to be getting more on the ball, as well they should. Still, this has nothing to do with the OP's questions.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D93GHUJ08&show_article=1

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ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Sep 29, 2008, 14:02:

casa,

Unfortunately, government agencies often do go after a petitioner that has divorced their beneficiary spouse. However, the petitioners signed these affidavits of support of their own free will. The taxpayers that would end up covering the beneficiary's support did not have anything to do with bringing said beneficiary to the US.

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casa_de_norte says on Sep 29, 2008, 14:50:

CG-- I agree whole heartedly... and I do agree that marrying a foreign bride is a "buyer beware" proposition....

i sarcastically propose that the State Department, add another fee to the immigration process and make the sponsors go to foreign bride marriage classes, and have them stare into the abyss that they maybe entering....its a fee I would love to have paid....

Its amazing how love and sex clouds logic, and the part of your brain responsible for emotional irrationality goes into hyperdrive.

"Why cain't we all jus' git along?!?! "----- The great Rodney King

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ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Sep 29, 2008, 15:01:

Maybe your "modest proposal" is not that off the mark. If I recall, the USCIS gives information to beneficiary brides/fiancees about their rights and warns them of potential dangers they may face in the US at the hands of their petitioner spouse. In Colombia, there is a national ad campaign warning women of the danger in emigrating to other countries for work or marriage.

It might not be a bad idea for USCIS to send out a similar information packet to K and CR visa petitioners explaining exactly what they may be getting themselves into. Too many people sign those affidavits of support without fully thinking through the potential ramifications if things don't go well in the marriage.

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Gary Bala says on Sep 29, 2008, 21:27:

Enforceability of the I-864 Affidavit of Support

1. Cheshire v. Cheshire (U.S. District Court, FL, 2006)
Reviewed in Immigration Daily:
http://www.ilw.com/articles/2006,0608-mehta.shtm

2. Stump v. Stump (U.S. District Court, IN, 2005)
Reviewed in Immigration Daily:
http://www.ilw.com/articles/2006,0110-wheeler.shtm

Good luck.

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guacharaca says on Sep 29, 2008, 21:40:

In what way has she become a public charge? Welfare? I thought it was hard to get welfare in the States without a child. Employment Insurance is not "public charge".

Colombianos: Las armas os han dado independencia, las leyes os daran libertad. (Santander)

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casa_de_norte says on Sep 29, 2008, 22:05:

Garch-here's an example..She left you 2 years and one month after marrying you. She works at mcdonalds part time and has no insurance.. she gets sick and goes to the hospital.can't pay the bill... The hospital can ask the county to pay since she is destitute, if the hospital is a non profit... The county pays.. In discusion, They find that you two were married and there was a I-864 signed.. She became a public charge...you pay said bill... This is how I interpret it... any takers to clarify???

"Why cain't we all jus' git along?!?! "----- The great Rodney King

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ujay says on Sep 29, 2008, 22:20:

sandra,
ILLEGALS
you yanks cant wait to blame it on every one but its self.
how many parts of this world you yanks have entered ,but not to work but to kill .
texas is mexico,if they still had it ,they would have the oil ,so when you shout out land of the free ,is that only for the yanks .

http://www.jukelightning.com

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Robert Jorge says on Sep 30, 2008, 00:36:

The original post is a great question, and it is unfortunate that nobody answered the question.

He who farts in church, sits in his own pew.

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guacharaca says on Sep 30, 2008, 05:08:

Thanks Casa de norte. Being covered by the Canadian health insurance system, I forgot about the lack of health insurance angle in the USA.

Colombianos: Las armas os han dado independencia, las leyes os daran libertad. (Santander)

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Gary Bala says on Sep 30, 2008, 07:10:

Question: Has anybody heard where the US government has actually enforced an I-864 contract requiring supporting an ex spouse (I am trying to leave out gold digger) because they have become a public charge???

Answer:
Yes, I have heard of real-life cases where, under the I-864 Affidavit, the ex-spouse (U.S. Citizen man) is required to pay back a public agency for welfare monies paid to the foreign citizen. Under the I-864 Affidavit, the public agency receives a right of subrogation against the U.S. citizen man when paying out monies to the ex-spouse and can enforce that action by a simple contract judgment served on the U.S. citizen.

I cannot give you legal citations to such cases because they are not reported in the law books. But my best information and knowledge is that such cases have indeed happened and the current trend in the courts is to increase enforcement of the I-864, not lessen enforcement.

My problem I have with your question "has anybody heard of enforcement of I-864 where ex-spouse is a public charge (i.e. paid welfare benefits by public agency)" is that your question seems to assume that the ONLY way anyone can enforce the I-864 is IF she becomes a public charge.

The reported cases I have cited below say that the I-864 stands alone and can be enforced by her (ex-spouse) EVEN IF SHE NOT YET a public charge OR EVER a public charge (i.e. collect welfare benefits). The reason is that the I-864 allows an separate right of action directly by the ex-spouse (your word "gold-digger") against the U.S. citizen man for daily living support benefits, even if she never becomes a public charge.

CASES: Enforceability of the I-864 Affidavit of Support

1. Cheshire v. Cheshire (U.S. District Court, FL, 2006)
Reviewed in Immigration Daily:
http://www.ilw.com/articles/2006,0608-mehta.shtm

2. Stump v. Stump (U.S. District Court, IN, 2005)
Reviewed in Immigration Daily:
http://www.ilw.com/articles/2006,0110-wheeler.shtm

PS#1: OK? I think that I have now at least attempted to answer your question directly and head on.
PS #2: If people are thinking that the I-864 is never as a practical matter enforced and thus can be minimized in importance (or "pooh-pooh"-ed), then those people should think twice. Signing an I-864 is indeed a serious financial and contractual obligation, and carries the clear implication that it may well be enforced.

Good luck.

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casa_de_norte says on Sep 30, 2008, 07:56:

yes gary--- Having completed the immigration process and then looking back on it, after a couple of weeks of arguments that came out of no where... I have looked long and hard at all of the paperwork....It has given me more resolve to get her into an education program, that will "Americanize" her Colombian degree, allowing more economic self sufficiency..As much as I want it for her, with some of the assinine arguments, I hope it would go along way to make the I-864 a non issue....

"Why cain't we all jus' git along?!?! "----- The great Rodney King

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casa_de_norte says on Sep 30, 2008, 08:24:

Thanks for all of your input... Like I said, when you are in love/ reason and logic are reduced to an area in your brain, the size of a pin head....and love, lust, sex makes your emotional/biologic imparative go into hyper drive... That would be hyper drive V 2.0 if she tends to wear tight jeans REALLY well, has a smile so sweet and innocent it reminds you of rolling around in the back seat of a Ford Falcon on your first date,

With that, as mentioned above, the USCIS needs to have a class where seemingly beautiful foriegn girls are paraded through a room of potential sponsors , and then explain the harsh realities of what each one would cost. Maybe if they shared the realities of the gravitas of I-864, maybe your brain would send the little dick out for a week's vacation and a guy can really consider the ramifications of marrying a foreign bride and navigate the immigration process.

After reading those two court cases, it seems like there is plenty of case law that any state or county agency use as a basis of argument for support, not just the payment of bills. it also seems that the 40 SS quarters can get longer than 10 years if she chooses not to work..

I just had a frightening thought with that.. Say she leaves at year two, further she works minimally...furthermore, Divorces you in year 2, Additionally she moves in with Pedro, whom she met at "Colombian Night" at the local cantina, and moves in with him, and furthermore, continues to not work, or works minimally, You can STILL be responsible for giving her cash to keep her at the 125% of the poverty line? In eccense subsidizing her life with Pedro? Is that what I am seeing in those court cases Gary?

"Why cain't we all jus' git along?!?! "----- The great Rodney King

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Gary Bala says on Sep 30, 2008, 09:22:

Is that what I am seeing in those court cases Gary?

Answer: I will let the cases and the commentaries on the cases, all of which I cited above, speak for themselves.

Bottom line, yes financial sponsors can arguably be responsible for daily living support less or reduced by whatever income the ex-spouse earns and other equitable arguments for monetary reductions your able attorney can successfully argue to the judge for you.

Keep in mind that in addition to financial and contractual obligations imposed on the I-864 sponsor, there are also potentially immigration and even quasi-criminal liabilities that U.S. citizen petitioners can be subject to for visa holders they sponsor. (I don't want to get into detail here on this discussion board about all of them. But suffice it to say that the moral of the story is: be damn sure that you want to petition and sponsor someone here before doing so.)

Do not forget also that the IMBRA immigration law imposes new limits on multiple Fiancee Visa petition filings: for example, if you have filed two approved Fiancee Visa petitions in your lifetime, you must secure a "waiver" exception to file another one, called "multiple-visa waiver". Also, if you filed even one approved Fiancee Visa petition recently, you must secure a "waiver" exception to allow you to file for another petition within 24 months of the first petition filing, called "time-limitation waiver".

Again, the message is: be sure you want to do these things before doing them.

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elk says on Sep 30, 2008, 09:26:

Yes, the I-864 can be enforced and your on the hook for 10 years unless the spouse dies or becomes a U.S. Citizen. My ex has remarried, but I'm still on the hook until October 2012.

I checked with my retirement system and was advised that half of my retirement benefit could be garnished by the government. (I think its like fighting or dealing with the IRS)

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elk says on Sep 30, 2008, 09:30:

Your obligation to support the immigrant(s) you aresponsoring in this affidavit of support will continue until thesponsored immigrant becomes a U.S. citizen, or can becredited with 40 qualifying quarters of work in the UnitedStates.Although 40 qualifying quarters of work (credits) generallyequate to ten years of work, in certain cases the work of aspouse or parent adds qualifying quarters. The Social SecurityAdministration can provide information on how to countqualifying quarters (credits) of work.The obligation also ends if you or the sponsored immigrantdies or if the sponsored immigrant ceases to be a lawfulpermanent resident and departs the United States. Divorcedoes not end the sponsorship obligation.

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ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Sep 30, 2008, 10:53:

In reading the two cases provided by Gary Bala, I noticed that the courts seemed to indicate that the I-134 did not create the same enforceable contract as the I-864. The K-3 only requires the I-134, but then the I-864 is needed for Adjustment of Status.

I wonder if there is any way for the spouses to enter into a separate contract that somehow protects the petitioner from having to directly support the beneficiary in the event of a divorce. I would imagine that if possible, such an contract would have to be entered into before the beginning of the AOS process.

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miamimike says on Sep 30, 2008, 11:23:

Worse yet, if the woman has young kiddies and if you bring them (Children)to the US, you are on the Hook for them for 10 years also. Now that's a real deal breaker! On the Pre-Nuptial agreements, it seems there are different trains of thought-some(attorneys) say they are enforceable, some say no. I have heard they have to be in both langauges. I didn't have one when I married(latina) 19 years ago, after we seperated and before the Divorce(total time married--13 months approx), the Tampa Florida INS(was ins back them) informed my Ex since we were no longer residing together and were divorcing, she had to show up the Tampa office in 14 days or self Deport. She self deported and had this not happened, she would have ended up in the Miami Krome Detention center in an Orange Detainee Jump Suit and would have received a free airline ticket gratis. I notified Immigration immediately after seperating we had seperated and we in the divorce process. Think Long and Hard before you bring a Woman( much harder if she minor kids) to the US permenently and marry them.Go to Colombia and live with them there, much cheaper in the long term scheme of things if you need to bail out,,, A Big Caveat Emptor,,,

Avatar Legend: Bush "If any of you Reporters are wondering, it was a Size 10"

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sanandressi says on Sep 30, 2008, 11:33:

The subject is whether the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT will go after a US citizen who marries a Colombian and then the Colombian with US residency collect food stamps or other forms of federal assistance thereby becoming a public charge meaning the taxpayers foot the bill. If the person in question has worked a certain amount of hours, quarterly hours, as a legal resident, then the federal government will not go after the citizen. American citizens sign a form accepting financial responsibility for the visa applicant. Explained above.

Yes, we have illegals who obtained a loan for a house by us because I saw it in the monthly sales section of the Denver Post and my COLOMBIAN wife told me earlier that the woman who she had befriended in that house told her that they were and are ILLEGAL immigrants. No sour grapes here just facts and if YOU love ILLEGALS then get out your wallet and you pay for all the social services they are being given because the US taxpayer is being given the shaft. (Just like this bailout for Wall Street!) What part of the word ILLEGAL do you not understand? The SAME government may try and go after the CITIZEN and they allow 30 million illegals here to do whatever they want!

I don't care if they make their house payment or not they should be deported!

There are lots of things I like about Latin America but stop dumping your poor on the United States and take care of your people especially in Mexico!

"This train will stop in Tucumcari"

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sanandressi says on Sep 30, 2008, 11:40:

Hey Colombia Gringo, I find it ironic that so many Latin Americans have to break our US immigration law to live in a country where the law generally works unlike most Latin countries where there is no law or the law is so corrupted they want to leave.

If you or someone you know is here illegally then you have broken our law passed by our lawmakers. I am sick and tired of apologists for illegal immigrants. "No ser humano es illegal."
WRONG, if you broke our law you are ILLEGAL! Enough is enough!

"This train will stop in Tucumcari"

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sanandressi says on Sep 30, 2008, 11:49:

IF OBAMA is elected then HOMOSEXUALES will want visas for their companions as well. The State Department can't tell now what is a fake marriage and with gays?

Some, I heard, gringo, went to Colombia and obtained a visa for a girl and she had family waiting in Miami's airport the day she arrived and he never saw her again.


BTW Too bad Mexico's government has to blame all their problems on the US. If Mexico had Texas, Arizona, New Mexico and California it would be a mess just like Tijuana, Juarez, Nuevo Laredo and Matamoros. I like the way Mexico treats the Central Americans as they pass through Mexico on their way to the US. Like dirt!

"This train will stop in Tucumcari"

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casa_de_norte says on Sep 30, 2008, 11:54:

San.. i understand your issues, but we are trying to debate the issues of I-864 and its obligations to petitioners..... Its the LEGAL process we are interested in...Though I agree with you,, the illegal issue in the US is a MAJOR PROBLEM That needs to be fixed, especially in rural Colorado, where it is driving hospitals out of business and closing Emergency Rooms due to lack of payments by illegals, but those illegals are Mexican, generally, and not Colombian...

"Why cain't we all jus' git along?!?! "----- The great Rodney King

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ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Sep 30, 2008, 11:56:

sanandressi,

I am not an apologist for illegal aliens. In fact, I have often said that the US government should enforce the immigration laws so that hardworking, honest people from all over the world get a fair chance at coming here LEGALLY. I am just sick of you injecting your complaints into every topic. You also constantly complain about LEGAL aliens supposedly abusing the system. You have claimed that you can't get scholarships or government jobs because LEGAL immigrants are taking them all. You sound like someone who is unhappy with their life because they are a failure and chooses to blame convenient scapegoats for their problem.

Also, you know very well that I am not an illegal alien since I have specifically told you so on several occasions. In fact, if you just looked at my profile, you would see that I was born in the USA. My parents came here from Colombia LEGALLY and further earned the right to live here by serving in the military and paying literally MILLIONS of dollars into the system via taxes. They have also provided jobs for US citizens(mostly anglos) through the creation of businesses and the spending of large amounts of money in this country.

I also brought my Colombian wife to this country LEGALLY at great financial expense. We waited in line for a long time while the inefficient US government processed our case. Don't preach to me about doing things the right way.

I know it must irk you that some Colombians can come to this country and do so much better than you without cheating or doing anything illegal. Deal with it.

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miamimike says on Sep 30, 2008, 12:10:

There are lots of things I like about Latin America but stop dumping your poor on the United States and take care of your people especially in Mexico!
==================================================================

The Mexicans pale in comparison to the scams perpetrated by the Cubans coming illegally to the USA. Also-on who is and isn't for Amnesty for illegals, lets NOT forget it was John McCain who helped write Reagan's 1987 IRCA Amnesty Bill which granted Amnesty then to 2,000,000 Illegals. It was said then to be a "One time deal". In 2007, McCain with Bush, Ted Kennedy who attempted to grant Amnesty Twice to 12,000,000 Illegals. It was essentially a rewrite of the 1987 Law McCain helped draft for Reagan way back when. It was a lousy law in 2007 as it didn't require the Illegals(and they are illegal aliens, not undocumented) to Return back to their country of Origin to apply for Amnesty. US Citizens protested vigorously and the bill was defeated twice! No such thing btw as an Illegal Immigrant, all Immigrants have legal status of one form or another, student, work, tourist ect., but all are technically termed "Aliens" in Immigration parlance, that's why US immigration issues them a "A" Number(short for Alien)which follows the Immigrant for life.

Avatar Legend: Bush "If any of you Reporters are wondering, it was a Size 10"

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miamimike says on Sep 30, 2008, 12:17:

Here's an ongoing case on how much damage just these 3 Cubans did in a few short years. Approx 30 more of their gang(all cubans) have hightailed to the Dom Rep, Mexico, Cuba as well and they also scammed our Government out of Millions also. They got away with this because they are on the right side of Politics, Bush likes to protect the Cubans no matter what price! McCain was here several times campaigning right in the same neighborhood these scams were taking place, Little Havana!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cuban authorities are detaining three Miami-Dade brothers who fled to Cuba earlier this year when they were charged with ********defrauding $119 million from Medicare,********* U.S. officials familiar with the case confirmed Monday.

It was unclear whether U.S. authorities were trying to negotiate with the Cuban government on the return of Carlos, Luis and Jose Benitez, who were arrested in mid-September in Cuba on immigration violations, according to two U.S. law enforcement officials.

The FBI has not formally asked the Cuban government to turn over the Benitezes, who fled South Florida before their Medicare fraud indictment was unsealed in June, because the United States does not have formal relations with Cuba.

But FBI agents have teamed up with authorities in the Dominican Republic to seize the brothers' property, bank accounts and other assets purchased in that country, allegedly with their Medicare millions.

News of the Benitez brothers' status surfaced in recent days in the Dominican Republic, where the son of one of the siblings arrived from Cuba on Thursday. After being detained for questioning, Elvis Benitez told Dominican authorities that his father, Jose, and two uncles were being held in a Cuban prison, according to the daily newspaper Diario Libre in Santo Domingo.

The Benitez brothers are among 56 defendants charged with Medicare fraud since 2004 who have fled South Florida to avoid prosecution, according to federal records. In earlier stories published by The Miami Herald, the FBI identified 36 of those fugitives -- including the Benitezes -- and said almost all of them were hiding in Cuba, the Dominican Republic or Mexico.

A spokesman for the FBI's regional office in South Florida, Judy Orihuela, would not comment about the brothers' status. The Cuban-born brothers, who immigrated to South Florida in 1995 before becoming U.S. citizens five years later, used their Cuban passports to leave Miami


http://www.miamiherald.com/news/southflorida/story/706973.html

Avatar Legend: Bush "If any of you Reporters are wondering, it was a Size 10"

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Robert Jorge says on Oct 1, 2008, 21:57:

Is it possible to withdraw an affidavit of support? If so, who do you write / call? I'm going through a divorce, married 1.5 years, she is a conditional perm. res. with adjustment to unconditional status still a year away.

He who farts in church, sits in his own pew.

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scumbuster says on Oct 2, 2008, 05:21:

If she were back in Colombia you may have a chance, however I doubt they would let you off the hook if she is living here in the US with the potential to become a ward of the state. I would think you would need to question an immigration attorney on that one. Its not likely if you call the free USICS # they could answer that one.

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ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Oct 2, 2008, 07:18:

RJ,

You should call Gary Bala's office. He has a service where he will answer immigration questions over the phone. I believe he charges $50 for up to a half hour. You have to fax in a request with the questions you'd like answered. However, I am not sure if that only applies to visa petition questions. Still, you should check with his office. He seems to know his stuff.

His website is http://www.garybala.com/ .

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miamimike says on Oct 2, 2008, 10:22:

RJ--this is exactly what happened to myself and my ex! We divorced before the two year period in which she still had Conditional Residency. The Conditional does not come off UNTIL after you have the Interview and after she receives Permenent residency. Since you are divorcing PRIOR to the 2 year requisite Time Period, I don't see how they could hold you responsible. I wold NOTIFY Immigration,VIA Registered letter, that you have filed for Divorce and are no longer living togother. In this letter send them copies of any info pertaining to the divorce and any POST Office change of address forms you may have or are going to file. CYA. In my case I did just this and also, Immigration tells you in their forms you fill out and in the forms they send you, you HAVE to notify their Office if ANY Change occurs in your Marital Status i.e. seperation, death, divorce ect. It is the Law,,,

Avatar Legend: Bush "If any of you Reporters are wondering, it was a Size 10"

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lpdiver says on Oct 2, 2008, 15:23:

Two years has nothing what ever to do with an I-864.

ts

"cook some rice!"

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Robert Jorge says on Oct 3, 2008, 10:04:

Miamimike - what you told me makes me feel a little better. Now, I just need to figure out WHERE to send this information to. I suppose I could just send it to several USCIS offices and hope it hits the right person somewhere.

He who farts in church, sits in his own pew.

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ujay says on Oct 3, 2008, 10:24:

rob,
what happened while i was away ,you parted from that girl you used to have in the photo,
just been nosey mate,
the two of you looked so well in it.

and none of my buisness rob , but she knows you so could be reading what your asking.

http://www.jukelightning.com

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Robert Jorge says on Oct 4, 2008, 00:51:

Good point ujay. So, do you know something I don't? Or are you just warning me to be cautious?

He who farts in church, sits in his own pew.

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Robert Jorge says on Oct 4, 2008, 00:52:

PM me ujay for an explanation.

He who farts in church, sits in his own pew.

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casa_de_norte says on Oct 4, 2008, 09:30:

RJ- From what you are saying is that she has been here less than 2 years, and the marriage failed in that time? you are off the hook.. Fuck the divorce attorney and hire an immigration attorney.. The whole permenent residency issue isn't perfected until you file at the 2 year mark....

She just may have to pack her bags and go home....

"Why cain't we all jus' git along?!?! "----- The great Rodney King

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miamimike says on Oct 4, 2008, 20:47:

RJ-In my case I sent the Info to the Local INS(as it was called then) Also to the INS Center in Mesquite Texas where I started the Process. I let both Offices Know that I was also notifying each other's office so in case they thought they could sit on the case, it was clearly stated other's knew of what I was doing. It worked for me and she didn't get permenent Residency or Citizenship. It would help if you could ask her to sign a Change of Address Form from the Post office, fill it out for her.on the pretense that she of course would not want you to receive. Include a Copy of that Address change card in your Letter to ICE to show them positively she is NOT living at your address of residence. For her to get the "Conditional" status removed she has to be married AND LIVING Together with you for the first two years. This change of address card with her Signature shows ICE clearky she is not, Good Luck

Avatar Legend: Bush "If any of you Reporters are wondering, it was a Size 10"

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