Hygiene in Colombia can I get the record straight

BlondeJamesBond says on Feb 4, 2005, 12:30:

Just a fact If you put warm food straight into a fridge it actually generates more of the bacteria likely to give you food poisoning.

Don't ask me the science behind it, but I have this fact on the highest authority.

Your wife (and Colombians in general)may inadvertently be doing themselves the world of good :D

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nanis says on Feb 4, 2005, 12:32:

Have you read any of my threads? I always talk about drugs, violence and that kind of stuff which is far from being romantic and positive about Colombia! But the difference is that I don't offend anybody with what I say. And why is it pathetic to talk about Colombians in a good way? Why? Are we just the number one cocaine producers? No! There are also good people too and very proud! Not pathetic as you say.

As for leaving cooked food out for hours... do you English people even cook? All you do is open a box of ready made meal and put it in the microwave! So how would you know what it is to cook real food? But wait a minute I’ve seen some English people cook Sunday roast and yeah after they cook it they leave it in the oven for hours too! So are you just talking about yourself? Or may be you're one of those obsessive compulsory disorder sufferers who are very obsessive about cleanliness because to be honest with you I don’t see any harm that. anyway I much prefer cooking and eating my food the same day than putting it in the fridge for days then warming it up in the microwave.. Did you know that using the microwave a lot is not safe? The radiation is very bad for your health!!!!

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londonmalecomesback says on Feb 4, 2005, 12:33:

to james bond Putting warm food in the fridge is plan stupid

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BlondeJamesBond says on Feb 4, 2005, 12:34:

to londonmalecomesback My point exactly :)

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KOMACHI says on Feb 4, 2005, 12:40:

what an idiot [comment deleted because of personal attacks]

(^-^)/ ...como quiero a mi chinita y a mi Colombia carajo!!!...

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londonmalecomesback says on Feb 4, 2005, 12:41:

to mrs gomez I siad one sentence Colombian people leave food out hours after cooking it you have not disagreed with that. I agree that English food is low quality. fruit veg and meat are superior in Colombia. We do however have superior processed foods like biscuits and we have a wide variety of foods from all over the world which make Colombian food looked very limited.
Most Colombian dinners consist of rice and meat almost every time it is in no way creative, thai food is a much greater level of creativity. English food itself is very limited. One sentence that is negative about your country should not upset you.

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KOMACHI says on Feb 4, 2005, 12:45:

so bad experience
"""Most Colombian dinners consist of rice and meat almost every time it is in no way creative"""


you really had so bad people around you in colombia i cant beleave what you said. you had really bad luck or you were an idiot that didnt look around you and search for the best, as i said before, where did you hang out, in el cartucho?
you are a real retarded bum

(^-^)/ ...como quiero a mi chinita y a mi Colombia carajo!!!...

(^-^)/ ...como quiero a mi chinita y a mi Colombia carajo!!!...

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londonmalecomesback says on Feb 4, 2005, 12:46:

to komachi Almost every Colombian dinner consists of meat that is os obvious and eating so much meat is very unhealthy

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KOMACHI says on Feb 4, 2005, 12:46:

meat superior!!!!! haaaa haaaaa where were you when the crazy mad cow disease in england? in drugs, or in a higher state of stupidity?

(^-^)/ ...como quiero a mi chinita y a mi Colombia carajo!!!...

(^-^)/ ...como quiero a mi chinita y a mi Colombia carajo!!!...

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KOMACHI says on Feb 4, 2005, 12:48:

i am out of here lack of fundaments, waist of time
a complete proved idiot


(^-^)/ ...como quiero a mi chinita y a mi Colombia carajo!!!...

(^-^)/ ...como quiero a mi chinita y a mi Colombia carajo!!!...

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nanis says on Feb 4, 2005, 12:54:

LONDONMALE Why should I be upset? Colombian food is limited? I’m sorry for you if you've only tried rice and potatoes you need to get out more tell your wife to buy a Colombian recipe book it will teach her how to cook real Colombian food! I for one hate processed food it makes you fat! And yeah eating rice and potatoes can make you fat too but thank god we Colombians don't have that problem!

And I agree that there are other countries with better food than ours but we're very proud of our own and I wouldn't change a single thing about it!

p.s did you know that this is a forum about Colombia?... just making sure!

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Lionheart says on Feb 4, 2005, 13:10:

mad-cow-male these comments really convinced me - why didn't he suggest making veggie burgers with algae?

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CCHICKG says on Feb 4, 2005, 13:58:

Food I agree with the london guy because until right now I did not know the food gets bacteria. I am Colombian and when I cook I just leave the food on the stove and whoever wants it eats when they want to unless its a family dinner then we all eat together but In my house no one is ever on the same schedule with school, work, and activities. For example my sister is in school all day and then I go to work when she gets home. My mom is never here and my sister in law is here all day. I dont think this is something to get mad about just good to know. Luckily I have never ended up sick. But one thing I dont do is left overs I think that is disgusting in my view that is why I never put anything in the refrigerator.

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miamimike says on Feb 4, 2005, 14:08:

To Dispel Myths on Food Preperation and Storage, this Link... Many times here in Miami-residents say"Oh, I feel like sh*t todat-got the flu-in reality, they very well may have a mild case(if they are lucky)of Food Poisoning. Dirty restaurants and food poisoning cases are rampant here in Miami-high numbers.

Microwave cooking--Another myth--Its Unsafe--simply not true! This may have been the case 25-30 years ago but not today. They do NOT emit Excess amounts of Radiation injurious to ypur health ; Think they would be allowed on the Market for sale and subject themselves(manufacturers) to Multi-Million Dollar Class Action Law siuts if they were Dangerous?? MicroWaves are actually better for the cooking of certain foods such as Vegetables containing water soluble B & C Vitamins. If these same Vegetables are cooked in Boiling Water--for more then a few minutes, the nutritional Vitamins(esp. B&C Vits.) are lost so in reality and fact-Microwaves are good. Google a search on this for its veracity if you doubt it.

Food Handling and Storage--the Truth--their statements, Not Mine---




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A Quick Consumer Guide to Safe Food Handling
HE-502 (Revised) May 1996
Adapted by Pat Beck, NDSU Extension Service


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This booklet tells you what to do at each step in food handling — from shopping through storing leftovers — to avoid food poisoning.

Never had food poisoning? Actually, it's called foodborne illness. Perhaps you have, but thought you were sick with the flu. Some 7 million Americans will suffer from foodborne illness this year.

Why? Because at the right temperature, bacteria you can't see, smell or taste can multiply to the millions in a few short hours. In large numbers, they cause illness.

It doesn't have to happen, though. Some 85 percent of cases could be avoided if people just handled food properly. So here's what to do . . .




When You Shop
Buy cold food last, get it home fast
When you're out, shop for groceries last. Take food straight home to the refrigerator. Never leave food in a hot car!
Don't buy anything you won't use before the use-by date.
Don't buy food in poor condition. Make sure refrigerated food is cold to the touch. Frozen food should be rock-solid. Canned goods should be free of dents, cracks or bulging lids which can indicate a serious food poisoning threat.



When You Store Food
Keep it safe, refrigerate
Check the temperature of your refrigerator with an appliance thermometer available at a variety or hardware store. To keep bacteria in check, the refrigerator should run at 40o F; the freezer unit at 0o F. Generally, keep your refrigerator as cold as possible without freezing your milk or lettuce.

Freeze fresh meat, poultry or fish immediately if you can't use it within a few days.
Put packages of raw meat, poultry or fish on a plate before refrigerating so their juices won't drip on other food. Raw juices often contain bacteria.



When You Prepare Food
Keep everything clean, Thaw in refrigerator
Wash hands in hot soapy water before preparing food and after using the bathroom, changing diapers and handling pets.
Harmful bacteria multiply quickly in kitchen towels, sponges and cloths. Wash cloth items often in hot-cycle in your machine. Consider using paper towels to clean up meat and poultry juices. Avoid sponges or place them in the dish-washer daily to kill bacteria.
Keep raw meat, poultry and fish and their juices away from other food for instance, wash your hands, cutting board and knife in hot soapy water after cutting up the chicken and before dicing salad ingredients. Also wash sink and kitchen faucet handles the raw meat or your "meat-covered" hands have touched with hot soapy water.
Use plastic or other non-porous cutting boards rather than wooden ones. These boards should be run through the dishwasher after use.
What about antibacterial sanitizers in the kitchen? Food handling experts feel hot soapy water used properly should protect you adequately against foodborne bacteria. However, kitchen sanitizers (including a mixture of bleach and water) can provide some added protection. NOTE: Sanitizer product directions must be followed carefully as products differ greatly.
Thaw food in the microwave or refrigerator, NOT on the kitchen counter. The danger? Bacteria can grow in the outer layers of the food before the inside thaws. Marinate in the refrigerator too.



When You're Cooking
Cook thoroughly
It takes thorough cooking to kill harmful bacteria, so you're taking chances when you eat meat, poultry, fish or eggs that are raw or only partly cooked. Plus, hamburger that is red in the middle, rare and medium-rare steak and roast beef are also undercooked from the safety standpoint.

Generally, cook red meat to 160° F. Cook poultry to 180° F. Use a meat thermometer to check that it's cooked all the way through.
To check visually, red meat is done when it's brown or grey inside and there is no trace of pink, red or cloudiness in the juices; ground beef is brown in the center; and cooked meat has a firm or flaky texture. Poultry juices run clear. Fish flakes with a fork.
Ground meat, where bacteria can spread throughout the meat during processing, should be cooked to at least 160° F. This means there is no trace of pink, red or cloudiness in the juices; ground beef is brown in the center; and cooked meat has a firm or flaky texture. You can allow large cuts like roasts to stay slightly pink in the center as long as they've reached at least 145° F (medium-rare). Do not serve any cut at this low temperature if you have scored (cut or poked with a fork) or tenderized it before cooking, thus forcing surface bacteria into the center.
Salmonella, a bacteria that causes food poisoning, can grow inside fresh, unbroken eggs. So cook eggs until the yolk and white are firm, not runny. Scramble eggs to a firm texture. Don't use recipes in which eggs remain raw or only partially cooked.



Safe Microwaving
A great timesaver, the microwave has one food safety disadvantage. It sometimes leaves cold spots in food. Bacteria can survive in these spots. So . . .

Cover food with a lid or plastic wrap so steam can aid thorough cooking. Vent the wrapping by slitting it or by turning back a corner, and make sure the wrapping doesn't touch the food.
Stir and rotate your food for even cooking. No turntable? Rotate the dish by hand once or twice during cooking.
Observe the standing time called for in a recipe or package directions. During the standing time, food finishes cooking.
Use the oven temperature probe or a meat thermometer to check that food is done. Insert it at several spots.



When You Serve Food
Never leave it out over 2 hours
Use clean dishes and utensils to serve food, not those used in preparation. Serve grilled food on a clean plate too, not one that held raw meat, poultry or fish.
Never leave perishable food out of the refrigerator over 2 hours! Bacteria that can cause food poisoning grow quickly at warm temperatures.
Pack lunches in insulated carriers with a cold pack. Caution children never to leave lunches in direct sun or on a warm radiator.
Carry picnic food in a cooler with a cold pack. When possible, put the cooler in the shade. Keep the lid on as much as you can.
Party time? Keep cold party food on ice or serve it throughout the gathering from platters from the refrigerator.
Likewise, divide hot party food into smaller serving platters. Keep platters refrigerated until time to warm them up for serving.




When You Handle Leftovers
Use small containers for quick cooling
Divide large amounts of leftovers into small, shallow containers for quick cooling in the refrigerator. Don't pack the refrigerator — cool air must circulate to keep food safe.
With poultry or other stuffed meats, remove stuffing and refrigerate in separate containers.



Reheating
Bring sauces, soups and gravy to a boil. Heat other leftovers thoroughly to 165o F.
Microwave leftovers using a lid or vented plastic wrap for thorough heating.



Kept it too long?
When in doubt, throw it out
Safe refrigerator and freezer storage time limits are given for many common foods in the "Cold Storage" table inside this booklet. But what about something you totally forgot about and may have kept too long?

Danger — never taste food that looks or smells strange to see if you can still use it. Just discard it.
Is it Moldy? The mold you see is only the tip of the iceberg. The poisons molds can form are found under the surface of the food. So, while you can sometimes save hard cheese, salamis and firm fruits and vegetables by cutting the mold out, you must also remove a large area around the mold. Most moldy food should be discarded.



Cooking Temeratures
Product Fahrenheit
--------------------------------------------
Eggs & Egg Dishes
Eggs Cook until yolk
& white are firm
Egg dishes 160
--------------------------------------------
Ground Meat & Meat Mixtures
Turkey, chicken 165
Veal, beef, lamb, pork 160
--------------------------------------------
Fresh Beef
Medium Rare 145
Medium 160
Well Done 170
--------------------------------------------
Fresh Veal
Medium Rare 145
Medium 160
Well Done 170
--------------------------------------------
Fresh Lamb
Medium Rare 145
Medium 160
Well Done 170
--------------------------------------------
Fresh Pork
Medium 160
Well Done 170
--------------------------------------------
Poultry
Chicken, whole 180
Turkey, whole 180
Poultry breasts, roasts 170
Poultry thighs, wings Cook until
juices
run clear
Stuffing
(cooked alone or in bird) 165
Duck & Goose 180
--------------------------------------------
Ham
Fresh (raw) 160
Pre-cooked (to reheat) 140
--------------------------------------------


Cold Storage
These SHORT but safe time limits will help keep refrigerated food from spoiling or becoming dangerous to eat. These time limits will keep frozen food at top quality.

Product Refrigerator (40o F) Freezer (0o F)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Eggs
Fresh, in shell 3 weeks Don't freeze
Raw yolks, whites 2-4 days 1 year
Hardcooked 1 week Don't freeze well
Liquid pasteurized eggs
or egg substitutes,
opened 3 days Don't freeze
unopened 10 days 1 year
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Mayonnaise, commercial
Refrigerate after opening 2 months Don't freeze
-------------------------------------------------------------------
TV Dinners, Frozen Casseroles
Keep frozen until
ready to serve 3-4 months
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Deli & Vacuum-Packed Products
Store-prepared
(or homemade) egg,
chicken, tuna, ham,
macaroni salads 3-5 days Don't freeze well
Pre-stuffed pork & lamb
chops, chicken breasts
stuffed with dressing 1 day Don't freeze well
Store-cooked convenience
meals 1-2 days Don't freeze well
Commercial brand vacuum-
packed dinners with USDA
seal 2 weeks, unopened Don't freeze well
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Soups & Stews
Vegetable or meat-added 3-4 days 2-3 months
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Hamburger, Ground & Stew Meats
Hamburger & stew meats 1-2 days 3-4 months
Ground turkey, veal, pork,
lamb & mixtures of them 1-2 days 3-4 months
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Hotdogs & Lunch Meats
Hotdogs, opened package 1 week
unopened package 2 weeks In freezer wrap,
Lunch meats, opened 3-5 days 1-2 months
unopened 2 weeks
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Bacon & Sausage
Bacon 7 days 1 month
Sausage, raw from pork,
beef, turkey 1-2 days 1-2 months
Smoked breakfast links,
patties 7 days 1-2 months
Hard sausage -
pepperoni, jerky sticks 2-3 weeks 1-2 months
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Ham, Corned Beef
Corned beef Drained, wrapped
In pouch with pickling
juices 5-7 days 1 month
Ham, canned
Label says keep
refrigerated 6-9 months Don't freeze
Ham, fully cooked - whole 7 days 1-2 months
Ham, fully cooked - half 3-5 days 1-2 months
Ham, fully cooked - slices 3-4 days 1-2 months
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Fresh Meat
Steaks, beef 3-5 days 6-12 months
Chops, pork 3-5 days 4-6 months
Chops, lamb 3-5 days 6-9 months
Roasts, beef 3-5 days 6-12 months
Roasts, lamb 3-5 days 6-9 months
Roasts, pork & veal 3-5 days 4-6 months
Variety meats -
Tongue, brain,
kidneys, liver, heart,
chitterlings 1-2 days 3-4 months
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Meat Leftovers
Cooked meat and
meat dishes 3-4 days 2-3 months
Gravy and meat broth 1-2 days 2-3 months
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Fresh Poultry
Chicken or turkey, whole 1-2 days 1 year
Chicken or turkey pieces 1-2 days 9 months
Giblets 1-2 days 3-4 months
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Cooked Poultry, Leftover
Fried chicken 3-4 days 4 months
Cooked poultry dishes 3-4 days 4-6 months
Pieces, plain 3-4 days 4 months
Pieces covered with
broth, gravy 1-2 days 6 months
Chicken nuggets, patties 1-2 days 1-3 months
-------------------------------------------------------------------



Power's Out
Your freezer
Without power, a full upright or chest freezer will keep everything frozen for about 2 days. A half-full freezer will keep food frozen 1 day.

If power will be coming back on fairly soon, you can make the food last longer by keeping the door shut as much as possible.

If power will be off for an extended period, take food to friends' freezers, locate a commercial freezer or use dry ice.



Your refrigerator-freezer combination
Without power, the refrigerator section will keep food cool for 4-6 hours depending on the kitchen temperature.

A full, well-functioning freezer unit should keep food frozen for 2 days. A half-full freezer unit should keep things frozen about 1 day.

Block ice can keep food on the refrigerator shelves cooler. Dry ice can be added to the freezer unit. Don't touch dry ice or breathe the fumes; follow handling directions carefully.



Thawed food?
Food still containing ice crystals or that feels refrigerator-cold can be refrozen.

Discard any thawed food that has risen to room temperature and remained there 2 hours or more. Immediately discard anything with a strange color or odor.




Is it Food Poisoning?
If you or a family member develop nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, fever or cramps, you could have food poisoning. Unfortunately, it's not always easy to tell since, depending on the illness, symptoms can appear anywhere from 30 minutes to 2 weeks after someone has eaten bad food. Most often, though, people get sick within 4 to 48 hours.

In more serious cases, food poisoning victims may have nervous system problems like paralysis, double vision or trouble swallowing or breathing.

If symptoms are severe or the victim is very young, old, pregnant or already ill, call a doctor or go to the hospital right away.



When to report foodborne illness
You or your physician should report serious cases of foodborne illness to the local health department.

Report any food poisoning incidents if the food involved came from a restaurant or commercial outlet.

Give a detailed, but short account of the incident. If the food is a commercial product, have it in hand so you can describe it over the phone.

If you're asked to keep the food refrigerated so officials can examine it later, follow directions carefully.




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For more information on food handling, call USDA's Meat and Poultry Hotline 1-800-535-4555 10-4 weekdays Eastern Time

How this booklet was developed. USDA's Food Safety and Inspection Service asked food scientists to analyze consumer handling of food in the home using a HACCP (Hazard Analysis and Critical Control Point) approach. This booklet, the result of that effort, guides you past those critical points in everyday food handling where experts say making the "wrong" move could lead to foodborne illness.

Home and Garden Bulletin No. 248 U.S. Department of Agriculture
September 1990 Food Safety and Inspection Service
U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE: 1991-301-703

Adaptation by Pat Beck, NDSU Extension Service


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HE-502 (Revised) May 1996


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NDSU Extension Service, North Dakota State University of Agriculture and Applied Science, and U.S. Department of Agriculture cooperating. Sharon D. Anderson, Director, Fargo, North Dakota. Distributed in furtherance of the Acts of Congress of May 8 and June 30, 1914. We offer our programs and facilities to all persons regardless of race, color, national origin, religion, sex, handicap, age, Vietnam era veterans status, or sexual orientation; and are an equal opportunity employer.
This publication will be made available in alternative formats for people with disabilities upon request 701/231-7881.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

North Dakota State University
NDSU Extension Service

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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miamimike says on Feb 4, 2005, 14:35:

GIB---Some Myths Drive me up the Wall GIB- I know it seems like a lot but it really isn't. Maybe it seems second nature to me as I work in the Medical Arena and have to practice it daily. However-I have been the Victim 4 times of Food Poisoning and the worst case was here in the US, the other times in Mexico, DR and south America.ANd it ain't no FUN! I took all the precautions,I thought, but the "Bug" still found itself in my body. The worst case was in the early 80s on a US Merchant SHip where the ship's Reefer(refrigerator-freezer)went offline(power loss) overnight-allowing tons of steak to thaw for several hours and then re-freeze and a few days later the cook served it to us. They carried my Buddy off the ship on a stretcher and he was hospitalized 2 days from Dehydration from massive vomiting and Diarreah.The rest of us-19 in total-has the same problem, but to a lesser degree. This is not meant to pick any one country out for criticism--it is a world wide and certain guidelines should be adhered to-wherever!! I personally would trust a restaurant much more in Colombia then here in Miami-here its amazing what goes on-I think for US cities--its the worst for not adhering to FDA/USDA guidelines.

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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Lionheart says on Feb 4, 2005, 14:58:

if we believe all that's written we would be dead Remember thread where I posted stuff about aging meat from a fresh slaughter/kill? If we wouldn't do that we would get sick, and chances of getting sick from aging is slim, if done correctly.

If you have meat in the oven or on the bbq it needs to rest when done, ever watch the food channel? Rule of thumb is at least 5 min per pound at room temperature. Nobody has died from leaving a roast in the oven for a few hours until it has cooled down. If you let it cool outside of oven a loose cover is recommended to keep flies away.

And no matter where you go on this planet, you will see food not properly handled. And it is known fact that we civilized people can't handle average contamination anymore, not even in water, because we grow up and live too sterile. Which is why most of us get a bit sick or more when going to tropical countries. Prepare yourself, takes meds with you, and expect it to happen. It is normal.

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santiBOG says on Feb 4, 2005, 15:24:

how come English people don't have all their teeth? Hey londonmale can you lay off the subject. Let's just say you're right, us Colombians are a bunch proud, pathetic, romantic, anti-hygienic bastards. Now, could you please move on to a different topic??? You have made your point.

Hey by the way, how come English people don't have all their teeth??

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kernow62 says on Feb 4, 2005, 16:06:

Because we like to fight. :-)

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Lionheart says on Feb 4, 2005, 16:15:

and because ... now you remind me of Andy Capp ... grinz ... I can even draw him ... my hero!

Long live Rugby!

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kernow62 says on Feb 4, 2005, 16:39:

I resemble that remark!

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jaramillo says on Feb 4, 2005, 16:58:

Highest authority That "highest authority" comment sounds more like a theological statement. Will you tell us who that amazing source of knowledge is?

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lpdiver says on Feb 4, 2005, 17:09:

All of the above being said and duly noted And having spent a week in the hospital with Salmonella. Both of the Japenese au pairs that I had helping me with my daughter while waiting for my Colombian wife to arrive; had the habit of leaving food overnight on the stove.

Strangely we never got sick. My case of salmonella was finally traced to old boudin from a convience store.

As a side note; if you suspect that you may have salmonella, don't let anyone administer antibiotics. It can give you arthritis. I now have arthritis...no one in my family has had it.

As I told my doctor after firing her, maybe it had something to do with my condition or maybe not. My physician had ordered the salmonella test and not followed up after I was admitted to the jospital. We will never know now. All you need is maybe IV fluids in case of salmonella.

Anthony

Caveat Emptor

"cook some rice!"

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BlondeJamesBond says on Feb 4, 2005, 18:01:

Jamarillo LOL

Re-reading what I wrote I was hoping no one would pick up on that!

I was told that by a doctor friend of mine, after watching me put a half-eaten, still steaming, kebab in my fridge.

Good advice for sure, but not quite from the 'highest authority' :D

BTW I'm English and am the priveledged owner of all my teeth!

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jaramillo says on Feb 4, 2005, 18:55:

refrigerating hot food OK, that may be a respectable source. I agree that, in general, it is a bad idea to put warm or hot food in the fridge. The reason is that it may take a long while for the refrigerator to lower the temperature of the food, giving it a chance to spoil. Warm food can also significantly raise the temperature inside the fridge, causing other food to spoil. However, and contrary to popular belief, is not true that refrigeration itself causes the food to spoil. Lower temperature will slow bacterial growth under any circumstances I can think about. If the food you put in the fridge is at room temperature (you can rapidly chill a hot dish by placing it in a tray with chilled water) you will always be better off.

Also, some food (e.g. dairy) is more susceptible to spoiling (milk is an excellent culture medium), whereas something like salted pork is quite resistant to it. Arequipe has so much sugar it is basically a preserve. Diarrhea may be just a nuisance, but especially with children, both Salmonella an E. Coli can be fatal. Why take any chances?

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jaramillo says on Feb 4, 2005, 19:00:

lpdiver How did you find out that the antibiotics (and not the bacteria) are what triggered your arthritis?

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pink_lotus says on Feb 5, 2005, 09:55:

Well speaking of Colombian food - I hate to say this and I hope I don;t offend anyone. I think most of it is boring and greasy.

I LOVE empanadas , aprepas con queso, sanchocho valluno , and ajiaco.
But asides from blah blah!

The meat here is always so tough! Like chewing gum to get through it. My Colombian friend laughs and says it is beacause they kill the vacas upside the head a pelazos. And they die all tense.

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Cerealkiller says on Feb 5, 2005, 10:07:

alright stop complaining about food...meat and rice everyday, greasy boring food, yadda yadda....try being a freaking vegan!!! this is just worse than france where they think vegan= exclusively lettuce!!!!

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Feb 5, 2005, 10:15:

the meat is tough because it's not aged. I like it like that. Fresh from a cow, not being hung for weeks in some cold storage room. As long as you still have your teeth (I just read about the English not having so many of them in good shape) it's fine and there are several methods of cooking the beef (stews, pressure-cooker etc) that render the beef tender and easy.

I love Colombian food but I agree that it can be a bit fatty. They also have a way of cooking fish that absolutely ruins every fresh of frozen, saltwater or freshwater variety.

About hygiene: I haven't observed bad hygiene in handling foodstuffs at a home environment in Colombia. Everybody is pretty much aware what a hazard hot and tropical climate is to food left lying around. The pot of sancocho may be sitting on the top of the stove for a few hours, arroz con pollo also, but their flavor only improve when let to stand for a while.

Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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jaramillo says on Feb 5, 2005, 12:56:

Colombian food Let’s face it, Colombia has no decent culinary tradition. We are about 100 light years from Mexico. Perhaps Indian culture was too thoroughly uprooted. In any case, Colombian food IS greasy, often boring and uninspired. I love it only because I grew up with it. But what the hell are all these sancochos and pucheros? Throwing everything into a pot to boil? This is peasant food at its worst. Not technique, knowledge, not even tradition. Bandeja paisa is just an invention that Turantioquia came up with during the sixties, which masquerades as typical. But I know the knives are already being sharpened to punish me for this sacrilege. Peasant food is the base of great national cuisines (e.g. Italy), but it has to be expanded, refined, and improved by long and careful culinary practice. In France (say what you will about the French) there is a respectable culinary culture and criticism. Chefs are honored and the art is respected. The Michelin guide will give you a damn good idea about what you can expect from a restaurant. This is real criticism, as opposed to complaining or whining. But in Colombia, restaurants are “great�, whatever that means. Dare to criticize Colombian food and you’ll be labeled a traitor, and the ones who do feel they are doing the country a favor!

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dwmte says on Feb 5, 2005, 13:17:

you're right, jaramillo... by the way, that's my colombian families name...about 15 pages in the medellin directory.

back to the thread. gotta admit, haute cuisine it aint. italiano, tan poco...however, it's good and substantive. kept me goin for a number of years. and if i were to tell mi suegra that it sucked, i'd be lookin for new balls. dona fanny feeds and cares for me so nice. and although it's not high cuisine, it is good. often, given the setting, great. so, brother jaramillo, while we dodge col.x's rope, let's not be to hard on a food that comforts so many, so well.

peace.

dw

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Feb 5, 2005, 13:17:

spoken like a true traitor, jaramillo.

The pucheros, the sancochos, the olla podrida is staple Spanish country food, rich and nutritive and keeps you hoein' all day long.

Colombian food is deeply rooted in the Mediterranean (Iberian) tradition of country food plus the native vegetables, roots and fruits. It's very varied from one region to the other, some dishes from the coast have a slight resemblence with Thai cooking. The pucheros and ajiacos of the altiplano with the very creative use of native potato sorts is another honorable tradition in Colombian cooking. What I find objectable is the overuse of deep-fry method which not only renders tho food greasy but also makes it incredibly delicate in flavor (must be consumed right away for the best taste) and also I think that people could be a bit more adventurous in using the native ingredients in the kitchen.

The main difference with the Mexican cooking is, as has been stated many times here, the use of herbal seasonings instead of overpowering chilies, which is also a Mediterranean tradition. A little bowl of ají picante always accompanies all Colombian meals and the idea is that if you like your food hotter, it's up to you how much of it should you use.

Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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dwmte says on Feb 5, 2005, 13:22:

maarit!!! "keeps you hoein???" really?

i'll have to tell the folks in the hood about this.

dw

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Feb 5, 2005, 13:28:

LOL douglas hoein' like in *wielding a hoe" when you work on the fields, or did in the medieval times!
Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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dwmte says on Feb 5, 2005, 13:39:

i'm a farm boy , desi... i knew that...just couldn't resist the rib.

peace...

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jaramillo says on Feb 5, 2005, 13:39:

hoein If I lived in the middle ages, or needed help hoein', I'd reach for that sancocho. Those Spanish roots are the problem, for Spanish cooking was never the best (not even the best in the Iberian peninsula, which is a lot to say). But young chefs left Spain and went elsewhere to learn a bit of cooking, and Spain’s food has improved tremendously. Could we use a bit of that spirit? When one starts to reach for adjectives such as "honorable" to describe food, one is in trouble.

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jaramillo says on Feb 5, 2005, 13:42:

Spanish roots If in New Orleans, skip those Spanish roots and avoid Creole. Cajun in much better.

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dwmte says on Feb 5, 2005, 13:46:

now that i think about it.... sancho down in the hood might not be a bad sell....

dw

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Feb 5, 2005, 13:50:

there's still a lot of people out there in the Colombian countryside doin' some hoein'.
It's a matter of taste, jaramillo. I like the Spanish food, uncomplicated, down-to-earth, honest. I'd take a Spanish dish anytime over a French sophistication of two spears of asparagus on a plate with a bit of dark red sauce on the side.

Cheers,
Desi
(and douglas, I knew that! I thought it was very, very funny)

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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jaramillo says on Feb 5, 2005, 13:52:

The best Truth be told, a GOOD sancocho on a cold day is hard to beat...

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Lionheart says on Feb 5, 2005, 13:57:

spinning in my grave ... ... and going back to bed.

There ain't no such thing as Spanish or French cuisine ... or Italian or German ... and I have a big one to pick with the French cuisine guides! If public book burning ever comes into fashion again, they are the first I will toss!

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jaramillo says on Feb 5, 2005, 13:59:

Taste I also like uncomplicated, down to earth food, and you are too smart to believe the caricature of French food you have painted. Many things, including post openings, are a matter of taste.

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jaramillo says on Feb 5, 2005, 15:06:

Book burning “There ain't no such thing as Spanish or French cuisine ... or Italian or German�. Well, denying reality is not a bad first step towards book burning.

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Lionheart says on Feb 5, 2005, 16:39:

jaramillo In France and other European countries there are millions of local dishes and specialties, there is no typical French cuisine aside from what restaurants and food channels in other countries tell you. I have also collected original Colombian recipes from about a dozen different regions, learning all the differences. There is also no such thing as Colombian cooking, there are many styles.

I lived in Europe 30 years and I am a cook. I know the reality of European cooking. The guides deny that anything else than what they approve is acceptable for a good cuisine.

The great French comic actor Louis de Funès made a movie about the guides, it is hillarious, watch it if you can. L’Aile ou la cuisse 1976 ... Aka: The Wing and the Thigh

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jaramillo says on Feb 5, 2005, 17:37:

Amen! However, great variability is not inconsistent with national character. Pick a French dish vs. a Thai dish. Do you need someone to tell you which is which for you to tell them apart? I doubt it. If you have a hard time distinguishing and Alsatian dish vs. a German one it is only because common rots are close.

How can I disagree with someone who likes de Funès?

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lpdiver says on Feb 8, 2005, 03:49:

Jaramillo That is something that can never be known (what triggered the arthritis). However the administration of antibiotics is contraindicated in the case of salmonella. Salmonella is very easily diagnosed with a stool sample.

My doctor ordered the test then dropped the ball once I was admitted to the hospital.

In the end I will never know why I now have arthritis, natural genetics or induced by contraindicated medical treatment. BUT, it sure would be nice to not have the second option as a chioce...no?

Tony

"cook some rice!"

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