HSBC ON strike

vicshere says on Oct 15, 2007, 18:24:

bump

listo

capitan_centella says on Oct 15, 2007, 20:15:

Hum. . . sad but true.

"When you open your eyes, you turn around with the world, But it can change, if you only close it, and see a dream to yourself." Me.

pedro says on Oct 15, 2007, 22:07:

Oh yeah, I meant to post something about this. I rolled up to HSBC just before 4pm one day, and found it plastered with strike posters and people sitting around outside.

They had mentions of other foreign banks in their posters (Citi, Santander...). I don't know if those banks are also shut?

I don't have a lock on what was discussed and who's right or wrong here. I did see a campaign poster in the window trying to convince customers that "the bank's going to shut forever". A bad faith trick to hurt the employer of the staff they are representing. Trying to build a pent-up demand for withdrawals and force a run on the bank. Once I saw that, I lost all respect for the union. Bunch of sinverguenza leeches.

que nota!

miamimike says on Oct 16, 2007, 00:27:

Hmmm-those banks(owned by colombia's storied old upper class) must be overpaying those tellers who work those 12 hour Days and dispensing too much time off in Vacation! Why else would someone strike when they are already so generously compensated? LOL. The Old Money families in Colombia just won't give it up...

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,

pedro says on Oct 16, 2007, 00:44:

Mike -- can you name any Colombian family that owns HSBC outright? Santander? Citigroup?

They're publicly quoted companies!

que nota!

Robert Jorge says on Oct 16, 2007, 01:19:

Come on Miamimike .... 12 hour days at a Colombian bank? At least in Villavicencio, the hours were 8am to 12pm. 2 hour lunch, then 2pm .... sometimes 2:15pm, to 4:30 or 5pm. A couple of banks had select days that they would open from 6pm to 7pm or so too. I would love to have those hours. I get to wake up at 3:30am this Wednesday, get to work at 4:45am, unload 35 feet of a 53 foot tractor trailer, and get off around 4pm. Now I know lots of Colombians work those hours everyday (or more), but I sure don't think the bank tellers do.

*or maybe I am totally wrong??? Not being a smart ass. Are there lots of hours that the tellers are working when the banks are closed? And what is a typical salary or hourly rate for a Colombian bank teller?

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

robi666 says on Oct 16, 2007, 02:21:

http://www.smartmoney.com/news/on/index.cfm?story=ON-20071009-000494-1...

"The bank's 750 workers in Colombia walked out Monday evening to demand an 8.5% pay raise this year, while the bank offers only inflation-rate increases, Fabio Arias, deputy president of the United Confederation of Workers, the country's main union, told Dow Jones Newswires."

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

tomtom33 says on Oct 16, 2007, 03:40:

I can't speak for Colombian banks.

US banks pay employees very poorly. Twenty years ago very few, if any, were unionized. Long hours were never required. The banks didn't want to pay time and a half for hours over 40 in a workweek. And, in the US, you cannot just pay a non-exempt employee a salary to avoid overtime.

vicshere says on Oct 16, 2007, 04:01:

I think the basic problem is that these employees are/were full time....but now HSBC want to give all the employees a yearly contract which would effect there their benefits ....the reason behind the 1 year contracts also would be to get rid of old employees and fill em with fresh meat/slaves.....so if they don't strike and sign a 1 year contract they are gone in a year....remember this bank has been bought and sold 3 times in 5 years.....they have been getting the roll around that's for sure and by the way if you look at the doors on the bank you will see its been sealed by the Labor ministry......because the bank was unable to work out a dispute which I would assume was launched by the employees

listo

Brians says on Oct 16, 2007, 04:58:

Come on Vicshere "This bank has been bought and sold 3 times in 5 years" HSBC is about 125 years old and has never been bought as far as I know. The market cap is about 230 billion USD.

tomtom33 says on Oct 16, 2007, 05:02:

Brians, read the article linked above by Robi. HSBC bought Bantismo last year. I believe that Vic refers to Bantismo.

nine inch nails says on Oct 16, 2007, 05:38:

Yeah the names of the multi-national banks/corporations on the tops of the buildings may not be Colombian per se but willing to bet that some rich Rolos are financially benefitting somewhere in the chain for allowing the banks/corps. to operate within Colombia. Quite possibly the Rolos proly even own the bank buildings outright and simply lease space to the banks permitting the banks to display their large signs at the top.

Would be interesting to check the Colombian property records to see who actually owns what buildings etc...

get down, get down

Brians says on Oct 16, 2007, 05:51:

TomTom Banistmo was bought by HSBC last year. That is the only transaction. Anyway one transaction and the way he mentioned it made it even look more stupid. I like the conspiracy theorists here like Miamai Mike and Nine Inch Nails. I agree with RJ and with my experiences with Colombian Banks in general they are not the hardest working people on the planet. Unemployment is pretty high they should be happy with jobs. Sounds harsh but really until unemployment falls 8.5% pay increases are not really good for keeping inflation intact.

vicshere says on Oct 16, 2007, 07:32:

and before Bantismo. it was Lloyds bank so I can count 3 times
Brians would you have your full time job substituted by a yearly contract with reduced benifits??...I don't think any average American would stand for it.....hey Colombian banking employees work just as hard or harder than in any other country.....so you saying these employees should be allowed to be treated like shit because the unemployment is 8.5% well that's a hell of a theory you got yourself there

listo

Brians says on Oct 16, 2007, 07:52:

Vic try 12% and inflation ran is running 5%-6% so the real difference in what they are offering is 2% or so. Not a big deal and as far as I can see in a free market they will have no problem filling those positions so why pay more. Now if Colombia continues to do well and the unemployment rate continues to fall then they will have to sweeten their offers. May sound harsh but that is how the rest of the world operates. Lastly I will have to now look but I don't Lloyd's Bank owned them and if they did it would still make it only 2 times not three but who is splitting hairs:) My point being is I have a ton of Colombian friends who would be happy to have a job and you are making this company out as "Slave" owners when there would be 10 people willing to replace them for that 1 year contract. I hate this fight the man type of rhetoric.

robi666 says on Oct 16, 2007, 07:57:

Vic, 8,5% is the pay increase that they requested. Unemployment is at 11%, more or less and inflation around 5%.
For what I see, it is their right to be on strike, and it is a normal confrontation between workers and executives - owners. While the article does not mention a change into a one year contract, the 8,5% of increase that they requested seems quite exaggerated, while the inflation rate increase would be normal. Anyway, the article is not deep enough to judge the reason behind the strike.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

vicshere says on Oct 16, 2007, 08:08:

opps thanks rob ...I thought 8.5% was kind of low
fine look it up Brains... but I can tell you for a fact It was Lloyds then Bantismo Then just last year HSBC......and it's your kind of mentality that prevents the Colombian worker from getting ahead...the Colombian stock market has been doing so well because they take it all for them selves and the employee and the customer gets the short end of the stick....its about time the Colombian companies start share a tiny little profit with their employees.....its time for the Colombian work to stand up for their rights which have disappeared over the last many many years if they ever had it to begin with

listo

Brians says on Oct 16, 2007, 08:15:

Vics man get off the soap box guy. Let them strike that is fine and it is their right. However I am telling you the real problem is the fact that 10 Colombians are waiting in line to replace those jobs. If the country continues to grow then this will gradually change. They are not 12 year old kids working in factories so no need to free the persecuted from their chains;)

vicshere says on Oct 16, 2007, 08:16:

Brians i guess you dont live in colombia do you....enough said

listo

vicshere says on Oct 16, 2007, 08:22:

by the way people who are ready to take other peoples job cause they are on strike are called "SCABS" yes they would be many more scabs in Colombia than in N.A. but still scabs.......also brians you didn't answer my question would you allow your employer to change your full time working conditions to that of a yearly contract

listo

capitan_centella says on Oct 16, 2007, 08:23:

Unemployed in colombia its a thought matter, specially in young educated people (25 - 30 like me) Yeap, most of my friends are taxi drivers, and they are graduated from the best universities around (pedagógica, nacional. . .) Usually public schools, but being a graduate from private´s U won´t be enough to get a job too.So it´s common to see and electronic engineer driving a taxi, or earning minimum wage (250 USD or 500.000 COP). If you know somebody (nepotism, "clientelismo" (you rub my back and I rub your back too) MAYBE you have the chance to apply to some shitty work. (I call shitty work 9 hours a day earning 500 usd month, plus have extra tasks to do at home for the next day. Renting a regular flat in estrato 3 cost 300.000 a 400.000 COP or 200 USD, depending on location and neighboorhood. I´m talking about one bedroom, one bathroom, nothing else. I know it becouse I lived on one.). So that´s why a lot of people live with their parents until the age of 30. Becouse it´s too damm difficult to maintain a life. (not getting richer, just having basic stuff, like paying rent, food, going out once in a month. Nothing fancy.)

Our law, allow "contracts" that left you without any social services, and they are per year. So if your boss doesn´t like you, he just have to wait a certain period of time and replace you, but Mr. Uribe set a few laws that let that happen. (Please, everybody in here knows that ministers are just little puppets in ties) It´s legal, but is far from being fair.

ergo, maybe bank tellers are really lazy. But they are not far from the truth. . . minimun waige in colombia SUCKS. Benefits? what benefits? having basic medic services it´s a benefit? (eps) they´ll give "miracle aspirins" to all your sickness. . . dental plan? if you don´t have 8 months paying eps they delay your appointment until you have the time¡. . .

And we have to march, just to somebody laugh at us and say "ahí van los de la nacional otra vez". . . If you have to choose, among taking copies to read for the next class or use your money to buy your lunch. . what would be?

I´m really pissed off. Specially becouse a friend of mine lost an eye (some fucking cop, hit him on the right eye in the meeting of the banks. And the media blame it on the universidad nacional riots).

"When you open your eyes, you turn around with the world, But it can change, if you only close it, and see a dream to yourself." Me.

Brians says on Oct 16, 2007, 08:25:

Good point;) Keep fighting the good fight! Free them oppressed!

Tinto (Moderator) says on Oct 16, 2007, 08:27:

Tough situation. In a lot of places, keeping up with inflation isn't good enough, there ought to be some kind of merit increase because with each passing year the employee gets a little more productive. That's the theory, anyway, and in a reasonably tight labor market that's the way things work.

From a senior executive's side, his duty is to follow the laws and make money, period. So he's doing what he should do in a market with an excess of labor. Now if disgruntled, not very well paid employees cause him to lose business or become less efficient, then he'll rue the day he didn't cough up that extra 1 or 2% salary increase. Issues like these keep management consultants and the authors of strategy books in business.

One more thing: Even if the bank employees were not unionized (which is a surprise to me), I can understand their fear in switching from 'employee' to 'contractor' status. The whole "free agent nation" idea works best with tight labor markets, where the person has valuable and readily transferable skills, and where there are meaningful remedies available to those who are discriminated against or sexually harassed. That's not the situation in Colombia today...

vicshere says on Oct 16, 2007, 08:28:

brians waiting for your answer?

listo

Brians says on Oct 16, 2007, 08:52:

What answer Vics? You are freeing the oppressed in Colombia:) My point was only HSBC has not been bought and sold 3-5 times in 5 years and secondly people on hear don't realize how good things have gotten in Colombia over the last 5 years. These people are not oppressed and things will continue to get better. However you start unionizing and pumping wages 8 1/2% inflation really starts taking hold.

Vics I basically run my own business so if my clients don't like my service they don't pay me. I am 100% commission. I am in Finance and have been for 18 years. I know the banking service industry and I will tell you that the banks in Colombia could be the slowest non-motivated that I have ever dealt with and I have dealt with most countries at least once. I have never dealt with HSBC in Colombia but have in Europe and Asia and they are very good in those areas. However if HSBC in Colombia is the same as any of the others I have dealt with then they are not the hardest working people on the planet.

capitan_centella says on Oct 16, 2007, 08:52:

Yeap tinto. You´re right. . and believe me, soul worn thin everytime you need to count coins just to get a bus. Sell candies, or been a "human telephone booth cabine" (as in some treadh I read. . . and I´m still angry about that nickname. . . I see the best design students selling cell minutes just to have enough money to do our everyday homework. So I take that remark personally.) Or having to walk, becouse you know that 1000 COP (0.50 USD) you saved today, tomorrow would made a difference into being on time or being late for class/work. Working sundays and holidays and been grateful becouse you have a job. And still been able to have a smile and been nice. . . and in top of that see uribe saying to the world that economy is raising, and everybody is happy. . .

BULLSHIT. . . . PLAIN BULLSHIT. . . O MEJOR EN ESPAÑOL: ESO ES PURA MIERDA ¡.

Thoughts choices that almost 7.000.000 (yeap seven millions) of colombians has to take every day. Myself included. And I´m on the lucky group. . . i´m not married, I don´t have kids, I don´t drink, I don´t smoke, I don´t see tv. My only indulgence are lego, g/f, reading and internet.

"When you open your eyes, you turn around with the world, But it can change, if you only close it, and see a dream to yourself." Me.

Tinto (Moderator) says on Oct 16, 2007, 08:55:

Brians - but let's not blame it all on the front line bank workers. It's anecdotal, I know, but how many stories have we read on PBH about bank managers, DAS people and others that should know what the heck they're talking about and don't? Maybe in some of these institutions the poor training, pay and motivation exists from the top on down???

It may also sap motivation to see sexual harassment going on and to know that while it might be harder to get fired in Colombia, it's also VERY difficult to switch companies after x age (I've heard x is about 30 years for a woman and 35 years for a man).

capitan_centella says on Oct 16, 2007, 09:01:

And seen my friend, lying on a bed hospital. . . crying with one eye.

Too much.

"When you open your eyes, you turn around with the world, But it can change, if you only close it, and see a dream to yourself." Me.

vicshere says on Oct 16, 2007, 09:01:

dam right capitan....its real sweet when gringos can say...hey we just any another Colombian flucky to fill the spot....I see the real Colombian working every day....I see them struggling every day.....its nice to have money and say those things.....but I see it daily for the last 5 years....its about time the worker stand up....and suck it to the company for the first time......what we really need is a real national strike and completely close the country down then maybe someone will take notice....like the hungry company's that only care for themselves

listo

capitan_centella says on Oct 16, 2007, 09:07:

Thanks for the nice words vics, but when I see my relatives saying: " y por que están protestando los de la nacional ahora?" It´s like the devil takes all over me. . . so stupid, so blind.

"When you open your eyes, you turn around with the world, But it can change, if you only close it, and see a dream to yourself." Me.

vicshere says on Oct 16, 2007, 09:13:

cap the main problem that the national strikes in the past are too sporadic at best....we need to have dam national strike that will stop the country.....no violence required for this purpose

listo

pedro says on Oct 16, 2007, 13:38:

Tinto, very good points you made.

I can see both sides. Sometimes employee activism goes too far. Like in France, where they have security of employment and then use it to treat the employer and customer with utter contempt and general "don't give a shit" attitude. I am especially talking about government bureaucrats here.

Most people recognise that Colombian working conditions are pretty bad. I would like to see them improve. But I don't think big wage claims are the answer. As Brians pointed out, the market conditions don't suit it, and if everyone got a big wage rise, nobody is better off because it just devalues the money due to inflation. You could argue that people without jobs are worse off in this scenario.

Some of you may see it as the struggle of "the haves" vs "the have nots". But which are the bank employees, really? In some ways, I see them as "the haves". They have jobs with better than average conditions, which they probably got through personal contacts. Most would not be able to find a job quite that good, a second time around. Some of their staff would be in fear of the contracts coming in. Because what if they get found out, and they are only in their job because of who they know.

A more realistic way to improve conditions would be to limit working hours, or bring in a proper award with penalty rates beyond 40 or 45 hours work. This would give a more livable lifestyle to those who have jobs, and drive new jobs for those who don't.

It's a more effective solution than wage grabs, because in a wage grab the only thing that improves is your position relative to everyone else.

The unmotivated worker thing would have a lot to do with limited social mobility. No matter how well you work, you know you can never rise above general shit-kicker level. It would be very demotivating to see people being parachuted into senior positions above you, knowing they just schmoozed the right person and got that job as a favour from the higher ups.

que nota!

tomtom33 says on Oct 16, 2007, 13:49:

I don't really see a strike as any kind of solution especially when there is a labor surplus. It might not be nice for the poor oppressed, but artificially pumping anything only fucks things up. Has anyone else been to the workers' paradise, Cuba, lately?

The solution is job creation through economic stimulation. Trying to force one employer to pay more than the market rate is silly.

Brians says on Oct 16, 2007, 14:20:

These guys:) I love listening to them organizing their "Fight the man stuff". Believe me a national strike would be the absolute worst thing Colombia could do. This is the stuff that get people like Chavez and Morales in power. These are not slave workers and there are a ton of people who would love to have their jobs.

elregaloperfecto.com says on Oct 16, 2007, 15:37:

Anyone is better off using other banks ( Credito, Sudameris).. as HSBC is just not good.

robi666 says on Oct 16, 2007, 15:42:

The good news is that at least they do not have the AUC hunting the union men down, like it was for Drummond.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

Bill Turley says on Oct 16, 2007, 16:31:

I know of at least3 other names whether or not this reflected ownership changes Lloyds, LloydsTSB and Anglio-Colombian. These are since 1997

Mr. Bill Somondoco

juancegomez says on Oct 16, 2007, 17:01:

They definitely have a right to protest, strike and make demands, even if not all of their requests are equally valid. Some likely are, but others...may be pretty much open to debate.

Not knowing too much about this particular case, however, I can't exactly opine about the specifics.

But I do know that, unlike what some people assume, some workers (union or otherwise) actually get better benefits / treatment / working conditions than their equivalents in other countries do, at least depending on the field.

Not all across the board, certainly, and many may be mistreated in open violation of the law, but the picture isn't universally bleak.

fecherklyn says on Oct 16, 2007, 18:14:

Joined the debate late but would like to say:

By pure chance I was in one of the HSBC branches a couple of weeks ago when a union representative had "taken the floor" and was making a diatribe that Lenin would have been proud of. Everyone was embarassed, the staff and the customers. The staff I talked to at the time were NOT in favour of joining/supporting the union. What happened next to get them to go on strike...I do not know.

I have been a customer at the same branch whilst it has been successively, Lloyds TSB, Banistmo and now HSBC. NO privileged Colombian families have the control of HSBC. If you want part of the action, you have to buy shares on the London (and perhaps NY) stock exchanges.

I DON'T know if there is an issue about asking the staff to move onto 1 year contracts. What I can say is that this would be contrary to HSBC's practice in MOST countries, although I cannot confirm that Colombia could be an exception.

Other bigger banks in Colombia DO have a recruitment policy against which HSBC cannot be shamed. For example, my cousin has worked for the last 3 years in another prominent national on a CONTRACT basis, as has most of the other staff.

What is wrong with offering staff salary increases at the level of cost of living inflation. In many other countries the workers would be overjoyed.

So the HSBC workers union want an 8.5% increase. But HSBC only took over the bank within the last couple of months.....WHY SHOULD THEY FOOT THIS BILL? If salaries needed revising to correct previous shortfalls, perhaps the staff/unions are targeting the wrong culprits?

Isn't it a coincidence that these latest strike actions are mostly targetting the "foreign"banks. Those of you who are immediately jumping to conclusions that the empire is trying to reintroduce slave practices should perhaps stop and think first! Is this not perhaps another version of trying to overcharge the "gringo" establishments?

And finally, I have heard there are other issues that have not been fully disclosed and publicised. If my information is correct, these "foreign" banks have had the affrontery to suggest that, perhaps, salary increases should be based on merit and performance. This, of course, would cause no waves in most industrialised countries but I can understand many workers in Colombia may be nervous about taking a responsibility for their functions.

Will Colombia ever change whilst such mentality abounds?

Brians says on Oct 17, 2007, 04:53:

fecherklyn but these wrkers are being treated like dirty slaves in these sweat shop practices:) FREE THE SLAVES!!

vicshere says on Oct 17, 2007, 06:38:

GIB dont think that will happened this is too big....now HSBC is hiring hit men.....if thats the case we in big trouble

listo

robi666 says on Oct 17, 2007, 06:41:

Vic, it happened with Drummond and Chiquita and can't happen with a bank?

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

juancegomez says on Oct 17, 2007, 06:41:

GiB: Because any imaginable strike or protest against any company has to end up that way...or does it?

It may or it may not, I don't know. Tons of people are treated like dirt, but some others are actually treated relatively decently, if anyone cares to notice.

robi666 says on Oct 17, 2007, 06:44:

"Tons of people are treated like dirt, but some others are actually treated relatively decently, if anyone cares to notice"

True! Not all Colombia is the same lawless land.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

Tinto (Moderator) says on Oct 17, 2007, 06:58:

Well, Drummond was found innocent in a court of law. Numerous attempts to get Coca-Cola into court have failed and Chiquita "only" paid protection money to two sets of bad guys, no specific act of violence was ever traced to Chiquita. So far, the score is 0-3.

Maybe someday Colombia will go from 16 or 17 national holidays down to 10. That might lift all boats a little. Yes, I know that people in the formal sector already get paid for them, but nothing is produced so it probably has the effect of reducing the overall wage level.

robi666 says on Oct 17, 2007, 07:03:

LOL, dear Tinto, I wrote it on purpose and I was waiting for someone to write it... I know, I know...
Drummond innocent... LOL
Go to Santa Marta and talk to the people...

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

Tinto (Moderator) says on Oct 17, 2007, 07:12:

The people that start out with a decent, white collar job get 16 or 17 paid holidays, 3 weeks of paid vacation, a minimum of one month of salary as a mandatory bonus, and depending on the work environment, they probably slack off around Christmas and Easter. Not too bad, except for the horrendous traffic. Colombians work long hours (on the days they are working) and when you add a one hour commute each way...there's not much time left except to eat and sleep. That's progress (all those cars), I guess...

My last few trips to Bogota -- on the way there I daydream about chucking the corporate world for a couple of years and living on my good looks in Bogota. After a couple of days sitting in traffic (including weekends and at 7 or 8 pm on a weeknight), listening to the noise and sucking in the fumes, I change my mind. Manizales or Bucaramanga, maybe. I never hear anything bad about those two places.

britabroad says on Oct 17, 2007, 09:26:

So, anyway, does anyone know when the strike is likely to end or am I screwed for the foreseeable?

Leave the big stick at home...carry a cannon!

vicshere says on Oct 17, 2007, 09:40:

screwed for the foreseeable future...its not the end of the world....just use other Bank's ATMs ...yes we will have to pay the 3rd bank fee...
I actually spent about an hour speaking to the strikers in front of my branch..... these guys and gals have been with the bank since it was Lloyds Bank 5 years ago.....they could have been they longer...but I wasn't living here.....anyway these guys have changed employer at least 3 times in five years.......if that isn't enough screwing around now the new owner .....Mr. international HSBC think they can just fuck these employees with a ton of seniority by giving them the hev ho...like any employee anywhere they have rights and I applaud them for standing up...unlike strikers in N.A. these people are without pay for a week and half....so come a few weeks they will start to hurt....hopefully this can be resolved soon for everyone sake....and I don't care what kind of economic times we are in....that is no excuse for an employer to screw with the employee

listo

Lowell says on Oct 17, 2007, 09:43:

Pitty the customers who can't access their bank.

Alfred E. Newman. "What. Me Worry?"

youthenrage says on Oct 17, 2007, 10:48:

great - i have a HSBC debit card, I arrived in Bogota yesterday, and I find all their branches are closed - and I tried to use my debit card in a couple of other atms, and none of them worked, the banco central 20 meters from el museo de oro on calle 16 just flipped to a blank screen with nothing but "701" anybody know if this is related to the strike? I even called them last week told them that I would be traveling here, and they didnt bother to mention anything of a strike...

vicshere says on Oct 17, 2007, 11:07:

too funny....what bad timing...as someone said in another post last month always travel with 2 ATM cards and 2 credit cards

listo

youthenrage says on Oct 17, 2007, 12:41:

Yeah, I have 2 debit cards, and I actually just went and tried the 2nd (bank of america, not HSBC) and that one didn´t work either. Some people in my hostel were saying that the ATM network isn´t the best in the world and it could just be down right now. Is that a likely cause?

Robert Jorge says on Oct 17, 2007, 16:48:

Tinto, you never hear anything bad about Manizales or Bucaramanga? Is that the reason why Rubito is able to stay active, you ignore him? jajaja I would add Villavicencio to your short list of possible options also ... but Rubi has stats that make that one of the most dangerous cities in Colombia. Tinto, I want to visit Buca and Manizales also. I have heard (almost) nothing but good things about those cities. University towns, big ... but not huge, friendly people, etc.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

Tinto (Moderator) says on Oct 17, 2007, 17:30:

OK, I will put Villavicencio on the list. Between Kat's photos of the countryside and your descriptions of the best beef in the country, you have me convinced.

Re dangerous cities and crime statistics - I'll rejoin that never-ending debate another day. Haha.

Robert Jorge says on Oct 17, 2007, 18:19:

I can't believe you don't give me credit for my photos also. Just for that, here's one:
That's a picture of my favorite joint in Villavo. Wednesday nights - holy cow. You might end up married a year or two later. jajaja

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

Robert Jorge says on Oct 17, 2007, 18:23:

You walk out at 4am, and the secondary street right in front of the club is filled with people selling chorizos, empanadas, pinchos, mango, etc. 3.300 mil gets you from there to your hotel in a friendly taxi. The nicest hotel in Villavo is actually almost directly across the street (Don Lolo). No need for a taxi.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

robi666 says on Oct 17, 2007, 18:24:

Robert, were you falling down with your camera or just drunk? :-) Or maybe it's just a big slope...

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

Robert Jorge says on Oct 17, 2007, 18:29:

Here is Mrs. RJ surrounded by sisters, doing the family outing at the river outside of Villavo on a Sunday. Alright, next key stroke after this post will be typing in "LAN" for tickets to Colombia ... I am more homesick than the wife.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

vicshere says on Oct 19, 2007, 09:09:

good news it apears the bank will be open this afternoon

listo