how to rent an apartment without being "cheated"

josergar says on Mar 8, 2007, 02:18:

and how could I solve these problems? No, I'm afraid I don't know any locals in Bogotá.

Anyway, I've been told that in some countries, locals prefer to rent houses/apartmentes to foreigners, as they are supposed not to have any problem at pay time. Of course, this could or could not be true. At least, I noticed this behaviour in Argentina, for example, when I was there. I found they explicitily mention this in their ads.

You say they are very cheap? Notice I want to stay in a safe area ... say a "estrato medio-alto".

Anyway, I'm very intererested in getting over these problems or others.

Any more suggestions?

Thanks.

larryrn says on Mar 8, 2007, 02:28:

---
Larry ---
Larry Snyder
http://www.rn.org - Nursing Education Online and CE Provider

--- Larry Snyder - http://www.rn.org - Your Source for Online Nursing Education!

larryrn says on Mar 8, 2007, 02:31:

Apartment Rental Unlike America - the simplest of things in Colombia requires much paperwork and renting an apartment is no exception. A credit check is done then they want notorized copies of this and that, and proof that this was paid, and a copy of your visa, and birth certificate, and a letter from the immigration, your employer, etc. But unlike America, no deposit.

A nice apartment - is around 13,000,000 pesos a mo - 3 bedroom, 3 bath, balcony, maids rooms - -about 120 sq meters.. This is about 480 dls US

---
Larry Snyder
http://www.rn.org - Nursing Education Online and CE Provider

--- Larry Snyder - http://www.rn.org - Your Source for Online Nursing Education!

josergar says on Mar 8, 2007, 02:46:

the simplest way? OK. Then... shall I contact a local lawyer to do all this paperwork? how long could this process take? I don't like all this bureaucracy :-(

Monita Linda says on Mar 8, 2007, 03:03:

You can get a nice appartment for about 400,000 pesos/month.

morphus says on Mar 8, 2007, 03:12:

As a tourist you should be looking for "apartamentos amoblados". They rent those by the day, week or month. You can find listings on the net or when you arrive look in the local newspapers/yellow pages. You are more likely to get ripped of by foreign expats that rent apartments in Colombia. They usually jack up the price.

http://www.paginasamarillas.com/

josergar says on Mar 8, 2007, 03:42:

short-term vs long-term Well...firstly I would try to find one of these "apartamentos amueblados". I would rent one for some time (one month) until I find a long-term apartment.

I suppose there's no such paperwork to get one of these short-term apartments. Am I right? Should I give some money in advance? how much? one month? any deposit required?

Thanks again.

Lostgringo says on Mar 8, 2007, 04:01:

Renting in Colombia First, unlike North America most of the rentals in Colombia have to go through a Real Estate Office.

What Rubito says is absolutely true. In addition, they often require a cedula. Also, when you get all your references and sponsors in order (like Rubito notes), you have to get everything notorised. That means that anyone who is sponsoring you and yourself have to get one of your fingers printed in the office. Yes, you are actually finger printed in that office!

The apartment that I am currently renting only cost me $600,000 COP. It is a beautiful apartment with 3 bedrooms, two bathrooms and a lovely bacony in a high rise. Like the other poster says I do not have to pay anything in advance. My current apartment comes with no light bulbs, no furniture, no fridge and no hot water! Most apartments in Colombia come that way. Correct me if I am wrong. So I had a hot water heater installed at a cost of $500,000 COP. If you want to go cheap you can buy a small unit to hook on your shower nozzle that only cost around $60,000 COP.

And your sponsors (usually you need two)have to have good credit. And you sponsors have to actually live in the same city. Also, they have to prove they have a job by providing documentation from their employer. This documentation has to be taken to the notary. Most offices that rent apartments require that your sponsor has to actually own land! In my first rental here I needed 3 sponsors and I provided a cedula and wanted to pay 6 months in advance. They would not take the 6 months in advance!

The only way of getting around this fiasco is to actually go to Colombia yourself, look in the newspaper and try renting from the actual owner. Will you get "cheated by the owner?" Who knows? Have a Colombian call and get the price for the rent. Show up yourself with a Colombian to help and offer 6 months in advance. Don't worry about showing the owner you are a Gringo. Rubito has mentioned this before in a previous post and this tactic can actually work is some cases. Money talks and we all know that.

Show the owner you are "Gringo" with cash and he may jump at the chance. Also, he will save money by not having to pay a fee at the real estate office.

Hope this helps.

If youy need a place to stay in Bogota while you go apartment hunting you may want to consider staying at our apartment.

welovebogota.com "Luxury Apartment and rooms at reasonable prices"

Your Home Away from Home:http://www.welovebogota.com http://www.apartmentinbogota.com "Luxury apartment and rooms Cheap" Only 2 blocks from the American Embassy!

miamimike says on Mar 8, 2007, 04:55:

LostGringo-good Advice Send in a trustworthy Colombian Friend or Attorney to discusss and set the price in advance if this is possible. Same if your are buying,,, this is KEY,,,There are two sets of Prices,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,

jmbone says on Mar 8, 2007, 06:18:

"advice from Colombian people" many of the postings offer good advice. So far, however, I see no postings by COLOMBIAN PEOPLE, like Josergar asked for? Why is this?


Every month, in all of the major cities, the number of available rental units owned by non Colombian´s keeps increasing. These postings offer MAJOR reasons why the entire Colombian rental market is transitioning through some important changes. BUT.....

WHERE IS THE:"advice from Colombian people"????

Surely on PBH, there are rental agents, real estate company employees, abogados, taxi drivers, street hustlers, scam artists, Colombian renters, etc. who could "spill the beans" on the inside tricks and scams used in the rental business, AND more importantly, offer their(COLOMBIAN)advice as to how to avoid being ripped off?

"advice from Colombian people"....that´s what Josergar asked for....let´s hear it from the horse´s mouth! How about it my Colombian friends?

hajenius says on Mar 8, 2007, 06:22:

when are you coming? Because my girlfriend and me are leaving in July. It is a 60m2 app in an estrata 5 zone. (Near Suba and 116) Living room, one big bedroom, balcony, modern bathroom and big kitchen. If interested contact me.

josergar says on Mar 8, 2007, 06:49:

rent directly from the owner? Thanks for your answer, Lostgringo. I'll take your advice.

But I'm not sure I've understood what you mean when you say ...

"The only way of getting around this fiasco is to actually go to Colombia yourself, look in the newspaper and try renting from the actual owner" ...

What's the difference? I thought I always had to rent from the actual owner. Are there any other ways? What about the requisites previously mentioned...cedula, notorise,... in such this case, who were I renting from? Has it something to do with the "comunas-estratos" system there? Is the "state of Colombia" the owner? Sorry, but I'm a bit lost.

On the other hand, your advise is to facilitate this process by doing it in a "not totally legal way"...well, ok, I'm actually doing so here in Spain. I don't mind doing so here, but it's in such cases when I'm afraid of being cheated. Especially if I'm in a foreign country and I give a number of months in advance without a legal contract. It's a bit risky.

Anyway, as you told me, there's almost no option to renting a house as a foreigner in Colombia in a "legal way".

Thanks,miamimike, too. I'll take your advice.

asmara04 says on Mar 8, 2007, 07:01:

talk to the doormen.. what i did when i lived in cali was first narrow down the neighberhoods,hit the streets if u see a building u like from the outside ask the doorman,if they have anything to rent,the doormen are clued into what is available in the building and are usually a good source of info,also sometimes they will take your fone number and give it to the owner,and then u can cut out the real estate agent out,i rented loft apt in estrato 5 area like this for 18 months paid 6 monts cash up front of course ask for the receipt...try to avoid dealing with re agency at all costs,look at the buildings from outside if they have a real estate sign on them call the re agency look at the unit and then the next day go back and ask the doorman if he knows anyone moving out that wants to rent...

Gator says on Mar 8, 2007, 07:12:

The Phrase: "A sheep being lead to the slaughter." comes to mind.

You are getting good advice but seem unwilling to follow. As a long=time Colombian resident and living in Bogota be aware of the following.

1. A long-term rental without a cosigner, especially for a foreigner, will be difficult at best.

2. Estrato will have nothing to do with rental except price for the apartmento and utilities.

3. You did not say if you are coming on a visa or as a tourist. Without a visa and the cedula you will have to obtain from DAS then you need to follow Josergar's advice: "Well...firstly I would try to find one of these "apartamentos amueblados". I would rent one for some time (one month) until I find a long-term apartment."

4. Go online to the "El Tiempo" the major Bogotá newspaper and check the classified ads for a general idea of prices.

5. To avoid getting "ripped off" do your preliminary work first to gather information. As far as Jmbone's question, "WHERE IS THE:"advice from Colombian people"????" impossible to provide until YOU decide on a location. After all it is a city of about 7.5 million people. It's a hell-of-a lot cheaper to live in some of the barrios in the southside that where we live in the north end.





"Brevior Sltare Cum Deformibus Mulieribus Est Vita!" .

"Brevior Sltare Cum Deformibus Mulieribus Est Vita!" .

Robert Jorge says on Mar 8, 2007, 08:38:

You got lots of good tips above. When I rented an apartment, I did several of the things mentioned above. (I was in Villavicencio) First, my fiancee and I looked in the paper for apartments for rent by owner. Then, when we called, my fiancee did 100% of the talking, and didn't mention me. When we would meet to look at the apartments, the price had already been discussed. I / we were lucky, and my fiancee's mother was happy to co-sign. From what I understand, the most critical thing is to have a co-signer. There was no problem with me not having a cedula and my fiancee wasn't asked for one. But, I believe her mother was. I heard, that a lot of times, you can get past not having a co-signer if you pay a substantial part of the rent up front. But, that of course is done at your own risk. You take a chance that the landlord could take the money and kick you out a month later. Another advantage of having a local friend helping you out, is that they know where the decent areas are, and where the rougher areas are. I was very fortunate, and ended up in an estrato 4 apartment furnished for 550.000 a month ($250 dollars US) Bogota will be more, but not crazy more. A poster above mentioned 13.000.000 pesos. Assuming he meant 1.300.000 pesos, that would be about $550-$600 US depending on exchange rate. And it is a much fancier and larger pad than I lived in; in a large city - not bad. The advice to talk to the guards at the gates is also a great tip.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

webmanco says on Mar 8, 2007, 08:41:

There is a term in Colombia, "trabajando con el burro amarrado", what means that you won´t get the goods until we make sure we will not get screw, or until both parties are satisfied. A more vulgar slang is "Plata en mano C..o en tierra" :)

The one who rents a property takes risks and if it is a furnished apartment it is even riskier. It is really hard to get a sponsor because if the guy renting stops paying the rent then lawyers will go after the property of the sponsor. Such property was put on paper as a warranty in the event that "inquinos" tenants don´t pay.

The warranties depends on the monthly fees to pay for rent, if it is worth up to USD 300 then you might need just one sponsor with property from which a certificate "Tradicion y Libertad" is required in order to make sure the property can be taken.

The idea of short period rentals of apartments is not the rule in Colombia, maybe that is one of the reason so much paper work is required.

Requirements varies from Inmobiliaria to Inmobiliaria (Real state agents), and from owners to owners.

What would be a long term rental for you??? six months, one year?

There are lots of offers all over the city, plus many new ones. What area are you looking for??

But, I'm going to start making some assumptions here.... Which means I might actually end up making an ass out of myself ..........Thu 04 17, 2008 11:34 am

Mr. Hollywood says on Mar 8, 2007, 09:37:

One thing I'll add Yes, of COURSE there are two sets of prices.

I think it's arrogant of us as foreigners to come into Colombia with no track record, no local credit rating (and, no, it doesn't matter how great your US credit rating is) and often, no local income, and expect landlords to leap at us.

The ones who DO understand the upside of renting to foreigners are the ones who have figured out that they can rent an apartment to an affluent foreigner for somewhat more than to a local, which helps offset their risk. My landlord is one of those types. The guy rented me a very nice fully furnished apartment on a handshake and one-month deposit. He fixes things when they break and is very respectful of us as tenants. That's the kind of landlord you need to find, and it isn't that easy.

Let's be honest, how many of US would rent our homes in the US to a newcomer from Colombia who had no local references and no credit rating?

miamimike says on Mar 8, 2007, 10:53:

Try Mercadolibre.com-lots of Bogota Apartment Rentals found there also. Also worth a try, I found a nice Rental on an Announcement Board in the Cafeteria(nice place to meet Colombianas also with NO competition, LOL) of a Hospital in North Bogota. Many Times nearby residents and landlords put up Ads to rent to family members of Visiting patients. Same for the Universities-landlords place their Rental Ads there also, look outside the Norm, the Road not traveled as they say,these reasonably priced rentals are out there,,,

http://listado.mercadolibre.com.co/_CategID_1459

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,

Wastelandlive says on Mar 8, 2007, 11:03:

Hmmmmmm "Let's be honest, how many of US would rent our homes in the US to a newcomer from Colombia who had no local references and no credit rating?"

Huh? Colombia is a poor country. America is a rich country. I applaud your evenhanded perspective, but it defies common sense.

The point is that since the apartments are relatively cheap for traveling gringos, we're less likely to be deadbeats. MOST people welch out of desperation, not desire.

Anybody, Colombian or gringo, can fuck off in the middle of the night, and when they do all that fingerprinting, co-signing, etc. is largely worthless. Ever tried using the American legal system to collect a sum as small as the rent? Do you think Colombia's is any better?

As a landlord, I find proof of income or savings useful. And if the tenant can pay up front, what's not to like?

Josergar, I have no doubt that some of these guys really did jump through all those hoops. I didn't. I've rented a penthouse in the Alhambra (Northern Bogota) and a double in Cartagena's most famous Cucurachera, "El Conquistador."

I signed a contract only for the penthouse in Alhambra. For neither did I need anything more than my passport and some money. I rented both from the owners, which is probably why I didn't have to do all this nonsense our comrades write about.

One thought: if I had to do it over again, I'd ask to see past bills so that I had a real good idea of what the utilities were, and then I'd offer a 50% premium to the landlord to have HIM pay the bills: just add it to the rent.

I'm here to tell you, paying bills is a PAIN IN THE ASS. It will take a few days of your life every month, because they have to be paid at banks, grocery stores, and the main office... at the end of the month, when everybody else is trying to do the same.

Colombians just don't quite yet have a credit system where people mail in checks. Or maybe they do, but very few people have checking accounts. As a foreigner, I didn't... Anyways, lots of people pay in person, and the lines at the end of the month are awful. It's horribly enefficient and annoying, but that's the way it is (or was five years ago).

Best of luck.

Wasteland

Mr. Hollywood says on Mar 8, 2007, 12:48:

Wastelandlive There are PLENTY of Gringo foreigners who are deadbeats, too. The US may be a rich country but there are plenty of total fuckups with a US passport, any number of whom might be trying to "reinvent" themselves in Colombia at a given time.

The single most important piece of information you can have about a potential tenant in the US is their credit rating score. Someone who has an 800 FICO score got it by not fucking up on credit cards, car loans, rent, etc. So you can generally trust them. And someone with a piss poor credit rating score got it for a reason, too. I once had a potential tenant (American) in the US offer me a YEAR's rent in advance in order to offset their miserable credit score. I passed in favor of a tenant with a great credit score who ended up staying in that house for 3 years without a problem. Why take the risk if you don't have to?

The problem for Colombian landlords is that your US credit rating doesn't mean anything to them and you have NO record of responsibility in Colombia.

You can say this goes against common sense, but a lot of Colombian landlords are going to disagree with you.

webmanco says on Mar 8, 2007, 14:20:

Supercades

"Also, you can pay those bills online in Colombia with a credit card, or over the phone, just like in the US. I'm surprised nobody bothered to mention that to you"


Plus for foreigners or Colombians without bank accounts or credit cards there are many places that will do the services payment for you. Next time in Bogotá look for the signs, "Todos los Servicios",

As well there are places called Supercades, they got special lines for elderly people, pregnant women.

But, I'm going to start making some assumptions here.... Which means I might actually end up making an ass out of myself ..........Thu 04 17, 2008 11:34 am

poco says on Mar 8, 2007, 19:15:

Not Colombia Also, you can pay those bills online in Colombia with a credit card, or over the phone, just like in the US.

Sorry but once again this isn't true for Colombia. I can't and I live in Colombia half the time. This is rural but then again I avoid going into the cities.

My experience parallels what wastelandive said.

Unless something has changed there aren't any post office boxes and mail delivery is made by some guy who goes to the POST OFFICE and this delivery is contract, ie: part time but seemingly reliable.

I'd think it preferable to say "Bogota" or ????

Pay on the internet, possible but that requires the bill is correct but many times it isn't.

Paying bills at the bank is a part time job for kids (if the bill is correct). There is a limit of THREE where I live. More than that and back to the end of the line.

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

josergar says on Mar 9, 2007, 01:24:

gonna answer some of your questions Hi again.

The reason I’ve first posted this question is I’m traveling to Colombia for work reasons, shipped by my company. But finding accomodation is left on my own (my company simply gives me the money, then I will search, that’s the kind of agreement I’ve reached with them). I don’t know exactly the date, but it will probably be within the next few months. I don’t know how long I will be staying either, but I’ve been told to be there for a year or possibly more. The company will do all the necessary paperwork in terms of visa, immigration, etc, for me.

So, basically, I could rent from real state agents (“agencias inmobiliarias�), which is a nightmare of requisites or try to rent directly from the owners, which could be risky, but a lot less bureaucracy. Am I right?

A “long-term rental� for me will be about one-two years. Because at this time, I don’t expect to be much more time there.

For the question “where location in Bogotá I am looking for�…well, I don’t quite know, as I’ve never been to Bogotá. I’m looking for a safe zone, a fenced “condominio� if possible. The offices where I’m supposed to be working are located in the centre-north part of the city. I don’t know if this is an expensive area, but I wouldn’t mind living in another part of the city in case it was.

Thanks a lot for your information.

cris says on Mar 9, 2007, 03:25:

furnished apartment hallo; I'm colombian but i'm living abroad. I own a nice apartment in Bogota north (strato 6)so i'm not working for one of those agencies. If you are interested, contact me at: apto-bogota at hotmail.com

Lostgringo says on Mar 9, 2007, 04:28:

Apartment Renting in Colombia First, I am really impressed with all the help you are getting in this area. Everything said here makes allot of sense. Maybe Peter will make this a sticky? One last thing I would like to add is that you can get someone in Bogota to give you a reference in this way...hire lawyer..(very cheap). Next, give him 6 months deposit in advance. Every month the lawyer will make a deposit towards your rent. He signs for you as security and has 6 months advance in his account. He has no risk and you have a good sponsor.

As mentioned in the above posts there are many way to skin the cat here in Colombia. In my experience it is best to go through a rental agency..usually a Real Estate company. For example, the other day I had a problem with my plumbing. They have a plumber working directly with them and they sent him over to my place right away to fix the problem. The agency has numerous listings and many Colombians prefer to go this way as they do not have the hassle of dealing with renters. Without a doubt going this way is the most difficult but it can be rewarding in the end.

Other suggestions about going around to different apartment buildings and talking to doormen is a very good tactic. Also, for a small fee you may even get a lawyer to rent an apartment for you. I hired a lawyer to write a letter and deliver it a person in Bogota. I also wanted the lawyer to present my case to this person. My lawyer drove to the other side of Bogota and spoke with this person for over an hour and presented my letter (he wrote in Spanish). The total cost was around $40 USD.

You will also be able to get documentation from your work showing your wages etc. This will also help when renting. Good luck with you house hunting. You have allot of information here to help you. As Rubito suggests, rent a room in Bogota and lool around yourself and decide where you want to rent and what kind of accommodation you want. Give yourself a few weeks to do this. I promise you that if you do decide to go through an agency it will take you longer to get possession of your apartment. Also, the price quoted at agencies is not neccessarily the price required. You can negotiate a better price.


welovebogota.com "Luxury Apartment and rooms at reasonable prices"

Your Home Away from Home:http://www.welovebogota.com http://www.apartmentinbogota.com "Luxury apartment and rooms Cheap" Only 2 blocks from the American Embassy!

panthdave says on Mar 10, 2007, 03:59:

All I have to Say Paperwork Paperwork Paperwork..... There you go.. Can be done...

Prices: Depends what you want but go to local rental offices which I did because wanted to be protected with a good contract..

Note: I did have a cosignor so that helped...I showed a passport and a copy of my paystub from my job in Miami...to prove I could pay the rent at 780,000 a month in Castropol Poblado in Medellin..



panthdave Miami

panthdave Miami

panthdave says on Mar 10, 2007, 04:03:

Personally Miami Residence Does help in Medellin Medellin is getting use to Miami people that transit back and forth. Even the police are very famaliar with a Florida Drivers License..along with many clerks at Stores when I use my debit mastercard...



panthdave Miami

panthdave Miami

Lostgringo says on Mar 10, 2007, 05:23:

Proof of Income Panthdave good advice about the pay stub. I did not need this because I had a cedula which in itself is proof of income. Yes this can all be done if you do your homework. Anything is possible in Colombia if you know how to do it. And, of course what works one time here may not work another time. Everything seems to change here in Colombia with time and often with different agencies and people you deal with.

welovebogota.com "Luxury Apartment and rooms at reasonable prices"

Your Home Away from Home:http://www.welovebogota.com http://www.apartmentinbogota.com "Luxury apartment and rooms Cheap" Only 2 blocks from the American Embassy!

Wastelandlive says on Mar 10, 2007, 09:36:

I love posts like these: Rubito: "Wasteland's assertion is also complete BS. Studies have shown that the richer you are, the MORE likely you are to default on your debts. Poor people tend to pay everything even if it almost kills them."

MY "assertion" is complete BS? Hey Rubi, I can't imagine what set you off... but could you yank one of those studies you cite out of your ass and show me?

I'd love to read something that demonstrates that rich people are more likely to default on debt than the poor. Too funny. Maybe you mean that only people with credit default, because only with people credit CAN default in the first place? If so that might be very true, but I fail to see how this might apply to a discussion about renting an upper estrato flat in Bogota...

Mr. Hollywood: no doubt gringo's CAN be deadbeats. No doubt some landlords agree with you. My experience was that many didn't. Why on earth are we arguing?

Jeeze. Relate a little life experience, both as a tenant and a landlord, and the PBH mafia comes out. "How dare you suggest that a Colombian who makes $12K a year might skip the rent before an American earning $80K a year... why Colombians throughout the world are known for their thriftiness, integrity, and upright ways! Gringos, on the other hand, are avoided and ostracised because they so often fail to pay the bills."

Whatever guys. I was just telling it how I lived it. I don't doubt the veracity of your experience either... but has it occurred to you that maybe if you had looked a little farther, or not taken, "this is how it's done here" as an answer, you might have found what I found?

Each apartment took me about a week to locate, with the help of Colombian friends. And I chose them from among multiple possibilities.

By the way guys, I *think* - I could be mistaken Rubi, so don't get your panties in a bunch - that paying bills with a telephone requires you to have a telephone account, not a pre-paid cell.

I often did as you suggest, and had my girlfriend pay a bill with her phone: I paid her cash. But she couldn't pay ALL the bills with her cell.. And I couldn't pay ANY bills with my pre-paid cellular, which is what I was limited to lacking a bank account, and as Mr. H points out, credit.

Online? Not then... perhaps now? Good on 'em, if they take an American Credit card.

Geeze. RARE form today! Just remember: nobody expected the Spanish Inquisition.

BTW, I just rented a flat in the Bull from - you guessed it - an owner. Same deal: passport and cash. I had to sign a contract, which is likely completely unenforceable. Finding a pad in this Shitehole was FAR harder than finding one in Colombia... many nations are poor, but this place is simply filthy.

Josegar: given where you are going to be working (you lucky bastard), I'd recommend Alhambra or even better, Santa Barbara. Upscale, great night life on the Pepe Sierra, clean, attractive, safe. If you're making a multinational salary, you can certainly afford it. Even if you're not, reasonable places can be found. I ended up paying - in 2002 - something like $400 a month for a penthouse. I tried to find cheaper, but cheaper was... awful. So I took the penthouse I didn't really need, and I suffered...

Enjoy!

Wasteland

caslug says on Mar 11, 2007, 05:24:

using US credit card overseas.. SOME US BANKS(Credit card company) will charge 1 to 2% currency exchange fee when used with foreign businesses.

panthdave says on Mar 11, 2007, 07:18:

Yeah Pain in the Ass Monthly Bills in Cash I have to pay my water,gas,electricity,cable,internet,landline in Cash but do receive all in one bill with EPM broken down by sections..
Use my debit mastercard which is at 1% for my ATM Withdrawal but at this point don't care about 1%.. Visa debit cards 2%..

Sometimes I get a good deal when somebody needs dollars and they give me a good rate on the street.

panthdave Miami

panthdave Miami

Wastelandlive says on Mar 11, 2007, 10:28:

Oh, OK... Rubi: "But I can tell you off of the top of my head that mircoloans have the highest repayment rate out of any class of loans in the planet, depending on circumstances they are usually 98 or 99%!"

Now THAT I might buy. In fact, I've read the same thing myself.

But we're kind of arguing apples and oranges here. Read up on the microloan industry and you'll find out there are a lot of variables that have nothing to do with apartment renting: microloans are made for capital to build small businesses, not for consumables like paying the rent. They are made in the great majority to women - because it turns out that women in the developing world are less likely to be deadbeats than men. And they are made to people who have no credit in the firstplace by people who likely know them personally...

That's a whole other ball of wax.

Wasteland