How much money does one REALLY need to live decently?

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 25, 2005, 05:31:

If you leaving on your own 2 million is ok. with a family it would a bit tigh.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Jul 25, 2005, 07:17:

Agree with GIB I think you're WAY low on rent, to. People I know living in decent 1 brdm estrato 3 and 4 neighborhoods are paying 500,000 to 700,000. Those are hip neighborhoods like La Macarena and Candelaria, which strike me as your style, since you're into going out and such. If you want to live in the ghetto I'm sure you can pay 300,000. A better bet, if you know you're coming here for the long haul, might be to buy a small apartment in those neighborhoods where you can still get something for less than US $20,000. That assumes some cash up front but would be a great savings long term.

Also forgotten on your list is cell phone. It's not really a luxury here, where nobody will ever leave you a voice mail message and where dialing from a landline to anywhere becomes quite expensive. I'd budget 60,000 to 100,000 for that.

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ColombiaBoard says on Jul 25, 2005, 07:29:

Rent too low I agree with the two previous posters, 300K a month for Rent is way too low, specially in Bogota where everything in more expensive. For that you get a studio in a 3-4 strata building, not the best area.
In the north (strata 5-6) you can´t find an apartment for that price.
The other estimates are more or less ok.

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Lostgringo says on Jul 25, 2005, 07:43:

Health Insurance Insurance is something I had not thought of. I am covered in Canada for most of my Insurance and also from the company I used to work for. Will I still require insurance in Bogota. I thought that if I had a serious problme I could just jump on a plane and return to Canada. What does the Health Insurance in Bogota cover you for? Also, what is the best cell company in Bogota. And, is satalite TV an option in Bogota?
Thanks
Frank

Your Home Away from Home www.welovebogota.com and www.apartmentinbogota.com "Luxury apartments and rooms Cheap" Only 2 blocks from the American Embassy! 24/7 hour security.

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platano says on Jul 25, 2005, 07:49:

Get out of Bogota and see a different (cheaper) Colombia... For US$600 a month you could live quite comfortably, but not in Bogota. More rural areas like Popayan offer basic services, even hospitals, museums, etc. plus cleaner air, and a less hectic pace of life that is also less expensive. In rural areas COP$15,000 will get you vegetables for a week at the plaza marketplace and COP$250.000 will get you a nice apartment. (These figures are 2005 and come from my sister-in-law who is now living in Popayan).

Make ajiaco at home. Wash your own dishes (no "muchacha de servicio").

You can party all night with a couple of bags of potato chips and a few big bottles of soft drinks (less than COP$20,000), a group of timba and salsa-crazed friends, and a decent stereo system. I never spent more than that to dance and laugh all night long, but then I don't drink alcohol.

Plátano, el banano verde
Oxigeno Verde ¡Libertad por Ingrid y los demás!

plátano

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Mr. Hollywood says on Jul 25, 2005, 08:03:

Agree on food The cost of staples like fruits and veggies is less but there are a lot of things that are the same or more than the US. Of course, Rubiazo is in NYC where everything is about 50% more than in the rest of the US.

I suppose the key question in all of this is what does it mean to you to "live decently"? Lots of poor Colombians live on a lot less, but they also eat a lot of beans and rice, share a house with a couple families, and almost never go out to a movie or concert or anything like that. I don't think that's the life you're looking for.

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flaleo says on Jul 25, 2005, 08:53:

You're missing plane tickets. If I'm retiring in Colombia I'm flying back to the U.S. during the year, or certainly vacationing elsewhere in S. America, or at the least flying within Colombia a few times per year. And then their are the other costs of traveling, even if small doing the economical version of it.

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jacobtafler says on Jul 25, 2005, 11:57:

how much money the only problem in bogota is the taxi for me cali is 20 perocent more expensive than bogota for exmple bus minmum in cali is 1200 and for this price you can go in metro in bogota any place shoping center chipi chapa small food 10000 to 12000 for meal in bogota 5000 to 7000nice lunch places bogota is chgeap if you know where to buy 1500000 will be ok for live if you dont go to zona rosa more than 2 times a week in 1 of may av it is better and cheaper in weekends so if you take 2 coktales in zona rosa few times a week even 3000000 will be not ok so 1.5 to 1.8 you can live ok for rent 400000 you can get nice room if you look and have time to cheak news pepers

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rjstuff says on Jul 25, 2005, 11:59:

A movie ticket is about $4 compared to $8 or $9 here. I can see just from the postings above that rentals are between half to a fourth of rentals here. I think entertainment and restaurants are also about half or less than prices here. So! The way I rationalize - you can live much better in Colombia in the same money and can have a pretty good time doing it! Considering that $1,000 is almost the minimum wages here and very good for living per month in Colombia - every level beyond that is going to be even better. So! What's the catch? The catch is making the same money you make here over there! If you have the money already - you are set! Have fun!

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Rubiazo says on Jul 25, 2005, 15:57:

OK 1) I was talking about what it would carry for month to month, NOT the cost of setting a place up. If you thought I was talking about myself personally, you were wrong. If I live in Bogota it would be with my GF who already owns a fridge, stove, and furniture.

2) My GF currently pays 350k INCLUDING servicios. Her previous rent was 300k WITHOUT. These were both in estrato 4 neighborhoods. I wouldnt THINK of wasting my money on 5 or 6!! I saw pix of her previous apt in Suba. It was real nice, brick walls, wood floors etc. She moved because she hated being over 90 minutes away from downtown! I've lived in crap neighborhoods my whole life. The neighborhood where I grew up in would probably have been classed as estrato 2 if it were in Bogota, for many of the same reasons.

3) I use my bike here in NYC, and I NEVER take it where I can't take it inside. But you wouldn't believe how many places I can get it inside. If i come across a business or restaurant that wont let the bike inside and wont send someone to watch it for me outside I tell them to go fuck themselves and take my business elsewhere. I certainly wouldn't think about EVER leaving a bike unattended outside here OR there, or in Toronto where I lost two bikes in three months to theft! No matter how well you lock it up, the thieves can always get your bike out of the locks about 10x faster than YOU can!!

4) The food thing was based on me walking the grocery section of the exito off of the Trasmilenio in the North, and jotting down prices of various items and comparing them with what I would pay here. Admittedly, if you want a bottle of Crown Royal, you're probably not gonna save anything if you'd save at all, but personally I prefer the local ron and aguardiente anyways, and THOSE are dirt cheap. My diet mainly consists of meat, fish, seafood, fruits and veggies, and THOSE are 10% of the cost of here.
I don't think groceries are more expensive in NYC than anywhere else in the country-- maybe out in rural areas which I avoid like the plague in ANY country, but in Miami, LA, New Orleans, Detroit, etc they seem to be pretty much the same. If you go shop in some trendy neighborhood here in NYC, forget about 50% more expensive, it's more like 300%!
I also didn't include the plane tickets in the equation. I was mainly concerned just with talking about the actual cost of living day to day in Bogota.

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Rubiazo says on Jul 25, 2005, 16:08:

GIB what is the difference between the 60k insurance and the 200-300k insurance? Are there higher copays, higher deductibles, more limitations on who you can see etc? For me personally, I think it would be between the 60k and no insurance. I went almost 2 years with no insurance here in NYC, it wasn't a big deal. I just payed for everything out of pocket.

Also note that I was putting eating out at restaurants in the discretionary income where it belongs. 100k was just for groceries. But I don't think that's unreasonable for the average person still. For me personally, I'd probably spend LESS on transportation and about 400k on food (I eat like three average people, El Corral's 16k peso burger makes a good BREAKFAST for me!)

And I repeat, www.skype.com, if you're not already using it you DEFINITELY should. I couldn't think of a better application for skype than calling the US and Europe at 1.7 euro cents a minute from Latin America!

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Rubiazo says on Jul 25, 2005, 16:22:

I'm splitting these all up cuz of the dreaded time-out.

If you look at metrocuadrado.com you can see PLENTY of rents for 300-400k.

Tinto, I just re-read your post. I'd find it hard to believe that anybody would even WANT to buy all that junk like pasta and bread and all the other carbs and processed crap. I'd be moving to Bogota to get AWAY from that junk. I would love to live on fresh produce and meats here, that's the healthiest thing for you. I only ever buy any of that other junk here just as filler because I totally couldn't ever save any money eating properly here! That's why I think all those 'food basket' studies are skewed!

Franko, from what I hear, Bellsouth is the best cellular company right now in Bogota. If you have a GSM phone in Canada and unlock it, you can pop the SIMcard out and get a Colombian one. I know Bellsouth is GSM and I think a couple other providers are. It will have to be in your GF's name though- They don't give them to people without cedulas.

Oh, and Zona Rosa is a total waste of money IMO. I would go there in general only to play in clubs around there and MAKE money, not spend it. A lot of places around 1 de mayo the table service is only around 25k-30k.

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Rubiazo says on Jul 25, 2005, 16:54:

Got figures straight I just chatted with my GF's roommate. They pay (together) 450k including administration but not servicios for a 2 bdrm close to the portal de la 80 in Estrato 4.

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Rubiazo says on Jul 25, 2005, 17:32:

When in Rome Man, your tastes in food are weird to me. ALL of that stuff is stuff I only ever eat because it's cheap here, (potatoes, yeech!) Eggs are definitely cheap in the US and Canada because they are subsidized, as is milk, but those things are NOT very healthy as a staple. I wouldn't drink the milk here if you put a gun to my head. To me a fairer comparison would be their ordinary milk against our organic milk, which is all I can even stomach here.

I would be perfectly happy on a diet of beef, chicken, fish, apples, oranges, moras, lulos, and whatever other verdura grows locally. That kinda diet is almost impossible anywhere in Canada or the US because those are all the most expensive foods here, but it certainly is the most healthy for me. The only grains I really like are oats and barley, and even then only in small quantity. By the way if you have never tried jugo de avena, give it a whirl, it's DELICIOUS and practically a meal in itself. Most juice bars in Bogota can do it I imagine.

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Rubiazo says on Jul 25, 2005, 17:42:

I would agree That if you want to live at ALL like one would live typically in America or Canada or Europe, then living in Bogota would cost you at least 50% of what it would cost here. By that I mean, if you have to have your favorite brand of potato chips or cereal, or if you insist on drinking your favorite Scotch whisky etc, or if you MUST drive an SUV in Bogota (totally impractical IMO) or take taxis even for trips to the corner store, or if you HAVE to live in an Estrato 6 neighborhood etc.

Colombians who come up here have the same problem; they often bend over backwards trying to have everything the way they had it in Colombia, and end up severely in debt because of it. They have a hard time realizing that you HAVE to eat processed crap here, unless you are making a small fortune every month. They buy all these crazy items imported from Colombia, and of course pay import prices on them, instead of learning to make do with their American equivalents so they won't have to max out their credit.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Jul 25, 2005, 18:20:

Phone correction Bell South doesn't exist as such any longer. It's now Movistar. Also, it's the only cell carrier that's not GSM. The other choices are Ola and Comcel. None of them are great but I'd say Comcel is the more reliable of the GSM services.

Also, there's no real reason to bring a phone down. You can buy a pre-paid phone for $80,000 including $40,000 in airtime. To get a SIM card for an existing phone is about $25,000 and there are often network compatibility issues. So, basically, you're looking at a difference of $15,000 pesos ($6 US) to just get a new phone and no headaches. All you need is a couple passport photos, a picture id and you're in business.

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Rubiazo says on Jul 25, 2005, 18:47:

Are pre-paids cheaper than regular phones? Also, can you keep them on after you leave? i want to establish a Bogota cell # for myself where people can leave me msgs and I can call up here from skype and get them.
I'll probably still go the SIM route anyways as I have a PDA phone and I carry it with me everywhere cuz it has my mp3s, lyrics to songs, sheet music in PDF, etc.

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BAQ says on Jul 25, 2005, 19:13:

WOW If its that cheap to live in Bogota, I need to move. I own a house in barranquilla and its paid for, no rent, just me and my wife, food, electric with air conditioning, water, gas, maid service, internet, direct tv, medical ect your at 1.5 million EASY.

Semper Fidelis !

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Rubiazo says on Jul 25, 2005, 21:48:

BAQ break it down for us if you would be so kind, itemize it for US so we know what that 1.5million gets you guys! Also, which estrato are you living in?

One thing you would DEFINITELY save on in Bogota is AC, certainly no need for THAT there!!

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BAQ says on Jul 25, 2005, 22:09:

Items OK, here goes:

Estrado # 5

Electric 370.000
Water 150.000
Gas 11.000
Telephone 90.000
Internet 75.000
Medical 95.000
Direct TV 180.000
Maid 250.000
Food 500.000
Cleaning Supls 150.000
Lawn Care 25.000
Cigarettes & Liq. 100.000

And that does NOT include gasoline or insurance for the house and car, cloths, cell phones ect.

I was wrong, more like 2 million per month, add the gasoline, insurance, cloths ect and you are at about 2.3 million

Semper Fidelis !

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BAQ says on Jul 25, 2005, 22:35:

MEDICAL Check into a service called A.M.I, big white ambulances with a red heart on the side. Cost per month for me and my wife is 48.000 and they provide paramedic ambulance service PLUS IN HOME MEDICAL CARE. If you get sick, a DOCTOR will arrive at your house about 30 min after you call, give me medication, injections, whatever you need. It is MORE than worth the 48.000 each month. Rx's here for the most part are very reasonable in price.

You will also need a private medical policy for hospital services, COOMEVA is a good company. Ambulance service here is EXPENSIVE if you don;t have a monthly subscription with a service or hospital affiliation. To the tune of about 1/2 million pesos of expensive for one trip to the hospital and they want their money up front. If you are gushing blood from you head in the street from a bunch of stampeding buffalo, the ambulances will drive right by and wave. There is NO PUBLIC ambulance service here expect for the fire department and they only respond to traffic accidents.

To clarify, thats the way it is here in Barranquilla, Bogota might be different.

Semper Fidelis !

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Rubiazo says on Jul 25, 2005, 22:48:

Damn you guys pay a LOT of utilities!! that's on a level with what I pay here in NYC. My novia usually pays 50-60k a month for ALL servicios on her apt, and that is split with the roommate too! I guess that's the real difference between living Colombian style and living gringo style.
I also recommend skype.com for you. I bet you could more than cut that phone bill in half! And no, I don't work for em. I just love em!
In Bogota you most probably wouldn't have a lawn either!!

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Rubiazo says on Jul 26, 2005, 04:00:

HAH I seriously spent $200 just on SALT one year here!

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flaleo says on Jul 26, 2005, 07:37:

Skype is not cheap It's probably most expensive of the VOIP options in the U.S. Others like packet8 or Vonage or Broadvoice have $15-25 packages that have no limits on minutes (call to U.S. numbers).

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spigrimace says on Jul 26, 2005, 07:50:

You are your own personal business Just when you think you get the budget right, double it, because you´ll be here for months finding costs you forgot about.

What about all the monedas you´ll be giving to beggars or red toweled men assisting you back up your car into the street?

Maybe you will tone your lifestyle down, but when a friend comes to visit, rev up the atm card.

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BAQ says on Jul 26, 2005, 10:46:

Nope, 370.000 for ELECTRIC. Maybe Bogota is different, Electric in Barranquilla is EXPENSIVE. PLUS you need to remember here on the coast, it is HOT and humid so the air conditioning sucks up the power.

Semper Fidelis !

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BAQ says on Jul 26, 2005, 12:27:

ELECTRIC BILLS - LOOK AT YOURS PLEASE OK, I have last months ELECTRIC BILL, the cost (before taxes) is 218.36 pesos per kWh, and an additional 43.67 pesos per kWh for "Contribucion por E. Avtiva" if you are living in BOGOTA, CALI (other big city), do me a favor and look at your last months electric bill. I am CURIOUS what the other cities are charging for Electric service per KWH.

THANKS !!!!

Semper Fidelis !

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Gacco says on Jul 26, 2005, 12:29:

Is your airco ok? I am not joking or whatever.

I have lived in Curazao and used those aircos making the elctricity consuming double. Once it became triple checked an airco and there was a troublemaker got it fixed and lowered extremely the bill.

Why am i telling this....i have a Finca in Medellin moderate climate.
My bill went never higher as lets say 150.000 estrato 4. but normally its lower.
Using a fridge a lots of electrical cleaning equipment and the finca is full of light evenings.
Everybody says men take care of your consuming behavor!

Maybe and I have to admit I don't know the price is far more higher in Barranquilla. The most I wonder is your water price but as a matter of fact could be far more higher in a hot climate.

A bit of noncense reply but haven't been aware of prices that high all those years visiting Colombia.

Take care Jaco.

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BAQ says on Jul 26, 2005, 12:44:

Jaco Thanks, will get someone to check it but it is only 6 months old. WATER here is Barranquilla is "AAA", you can drink from the tap, good clean water similar to what you find in the states. INCLUDED with the water bill is TRASH SERVICE, STREET CLEANING (Big street sweepers) and some other rediculous charge for "Line maintinance".

For those of you who don;t live here YET, take a look at YOUR phone bills and electric bills, there are "Add ons" like 911 contribution ect. SAME THING HERE, PLUS in Colombia there is NO income tax, Colombia has a CONSUMPTION tax, and they tax EVERYTHING, the rate of tax varies depending on the product, Colombian food is taxed less than imported food, Luxery items like cars ect are taxed at a higher rate ect.

Just some FYI stuff.

Semper Fidelis !

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2retirensa says on Jul 26, 2005, 18:13:

Interesting- not much difference I'm paying .0915 KWH here in St Louis, Mo. Really not much difference in rate. No wonder elec. is considered so expensive in Colombia- paying what I pay on way less than I earn.
Maureen

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Rubiazo says on Jul 26, 2005, 21:47:

It is much less in Bogota. Here in NYC I pay 14 cents and change a kwh, plus $28 a month in various stupid fees and line maintenance. My tenants run window ACs in the summer, chest freezer, big fridge, aquarium, loud stereo. Their bill is NEVER less than $250 for a month (that's JUST electricity). Mine is usually $70-80 as I'm paying for all public areas as well as what I consume, plus the washer-dryer.
NYC water is supposed to be of excellent quality, but I filter it anyways because I hate the taste of the chlorine.

GIB, how does somebody sneak up on foot on somebody on a bicycle and hit them on the head with a rock? I mean, I've heard of it happening here AND there, but I just don't get it! If I'm cruising at 20mph and I see some fool pick up a rock I'm gonna push it up to 27mph and run his sorry ass down, then break whatever bones are still unbroken! Do people actually stop and get off their bikes when somebody threatens them?

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Rubiazo says on Jul 29, 2005, 20:04:

Correction My GF informs me that her new apt is in fact a THREE BEDROOM for 450k including administracion (but not servicios). It is in Los Tamarindos. GIB does she have the deal of the century going or is this more or less the going rate? I believe it's 50 m2 and change.

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Hunter says on Jul 30, 2005, 05:24:

Aircons are very expensive to run, I live in a 5 bedroom apt in Medellin, which I also use as a office, I pay 35,000 pesos a month for my electric.

In comparison when I am in Ctg, I live in a Studio apt and only have the aircon on here and there during the night and the electric bill is 100,000 pesos, if I left the aircon on day and night, I would expect a bill of about 500,000 pesos.

Hunter

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tomtom33 says on Jul 30, 2005, 05:47:

CTG electric I usually air condition only one bedroom part-time and the living room on occasion. My electic bill runs around 250K. I have tennants during the summer when I'm in the States. They can run it to over 400K.

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spy1984 says on Aug 4, 2005, 21:22:

1000 doallers a month So would it be safe to say that for 1000.00 American you can live will. One person?

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Lucia Rojas says on Aug 4, 2005, 21:35:

yes definitely for a thousand dollars a month... just one person can live very well here. And from my experience the highest bill in bogota is water and garbage ( which you pay with the same bill) gas natural is cheap.. and that reduces the electric bill a lot... so try to find a place with gas natural. TV cable is lees expensive than direct TV. I pay 80,000 a month without the movie channels.. but with all the news and the sports ( which a lot of americans are interested in) My friends got tv cable just so they could watch the SuperBowl...

My roomates and me pay about 1,400,000 for everything, including food.

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vicshere says on Aug 4, 2005, 21:48:

BAQ in Bucaramanga we pay 275/kwh
but have to say the A/C sucks it up in any country not just colombia
we have natural A/C open a winidow heheheh

listo
"con mucho gusto"
Vic
homepage
http://spaces.msn.com/members/jacintoplace

listo

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Lostgringo says on Aug 4, 2005, 22:59:

Maid Service? what is with all this maid service? I have never had a maid in Canada why would I have one in Colombia. And why would I pay here $131.00 a month Canadian. What do they do there?

Frank

Your Home Away from Home www.welovebogota.com and www.apartmentinbogota.com "Luxury apartments and rooms Cheap" Only 2 blocks from the American Embassy! 24/7 hour security.

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Lostgringo says on Aug 4, 2005, 23:12:

skype why would you pay to use skype when you can use Yahoo or Paltalk to do the same thing..wait, you can do more with thewe programs you can use video and they are 100% free...

Frank

Your Home Away from Home www.welovebogota.com and www.apartmentinbogota.com "Luxury apartments and rooms Cheap" Only 2 blocks from the American Embassy! 24/7 hour security.

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rjstuff says on Aug 5, 2005, 07:52:

franko - maids are pretty common My fiancee has a live in maid - the maid cleans, cooks, sometimes goes grocery shopping also when needed. The houses get dirty very fast there - lots of dust and dirt flying around plus the homes are not sealed like the homes in US and Canada - In Barranquilla you have to sweep the floors every day and dust probably 2 or 3 times a week also! So, you are better off paying 100 - 130 US dollars a month to a maid (my fiancee's maid works 5/6 days a week.)

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Rubiazo says on Aug 5, 2005, 19:53:

re: skype skype is totally free unless you call a regular phone# with it. You can do chat and video with it as well, though I've never tried the video.
I usually use skype for audio computer-to-computer and MSN for the video, because the new wma codec is incredibly fast and good. Sometimes i've gotten 24 frames a second of VGA quality video on a 128k stream with it.

Yahoo and MSN audio chat have NEVER worked well for me. As a matter of fact, I've never been able to correctly hear a whole sentence off of them.

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Lostgringo says on Aug 6, 2005, 01:18:

rjstuff I can see why you would need a maid to help. I personally would not a live in maid..espeically in a small apartment...I am sure my novia would have something to say about that lol. The only conecern I have is laundry. I can cook for myself and really prefer it. As far as sweeping and dusting goes I have no problem with that either. But I do your pointa and all things considered $135 a month is pretty cheap.

Your Home Away from Home www.welovebogota.com and www.apartmentinbogota.com "Luxury apartments and rooms Cheap" Only 2 blocks from the American Embassy! 24/7 hour security.

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Lostgringo says on Aug 6, 2005, 01:21:

skype computer for phone Oh I see I didn't know you were going from you computer to phone. I have heard alot of good things about Skype. I use Yahoo to talk to my novia. She is not all that computer literate so Skype would be difficult to get her used to at this poing. Actually I will be Bogota in 10 days so we will actually be able to communicate in person.

Frank

Your Home Away from Home www.welovebogota.com and www.apartmentinbogota.com "Luxury apartments and rooms Cheap" Only 2 blocks from the American Embassy! 24/7 hour security.

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BAQ says on Aug 6, 2005, 11:24:

1500 Just my opinion but I would tell you a minimum of 1500 u.s. dollars a month. I know others will tell you less but it all depends on lifestyle. If you want medical coverage, a maid, a decent place to live, buy good food, direct tv, be able to keep your a/c running when you want it, have some spending money ect, then $1.500.00 per month will do just fine. If you don;t mind doing without medical, a maid, direct tv, then I guess you can live on 1000 a month. Personally, if all I had was 1000 per month, I would not be happy. ANY WAY you slice the pie, its cheaper than living in the states.

Semper Fidelis !

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Rubiazo says on Aug 6, 2005, 18:46:

It seems that there are some things that make a MAJOR difference in the monthly budget. i.e.
-if you live in a hot climate where you need to A/C.
-if you have a car
-if you need a maid or not (I would want one if I were living solo AND working full-time, if I were independently wealthy down there I probably wouldn't bother.)

It seems that those three things can be easily $600 of one's $1500 a month budget down there. If I tried to have a car here, my $120-130 a month I spend on transportation would blow up to $800 easily.

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tomtom33 says on Aug 6, 2005, 19:55:

Maid I live on the beach in Laguito(Cartagena). All the windows must be washed at least once a week because of the salt spray. I don't work because I am retired. But I don't do windows. I have a maid once a week. It costs 15K pesos per week.

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Lostgringo says on Aug 6, 2005, 20:48:

wow I would get a maid too That works out to about $8 a week. She does the windows and other things? I heard above about $135 US a month (I think). How do you find retirement there Tom? Are you a US expat? How much does it cost you to get by a month?
thanks,
Frank

Your Home Away from Home www.welovebogota.com and www.apartmentinbogota.com "Luxury apartments and rooms Cheap" Only 2 blocks from the American Embassy! 24/7 hour security.

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tomtom33 says on Aug 7, 2005, 07:48:

Frank She does the windows including two patio doors, sweeps and mops the floors, dusts, cleans three bathrooms, and the little-used kitchen. I am sure that she would do me too if I asked.

Actually I still live in the US about 5 months a year. My mother is nearing the end of her life. When she passes, I will be full-time in CTG. I am head-over-heels in love with Cartagena and Colombia. Medellin is pretty special for me as well. Nearly every morning I pinch myself to see whether or not I'm dreaming.

Here are some of my monthly expenses:

Apt. admin 340K
utilities & land phone 450
cable TV & Internet 100?
property taxes 85
health ins. 400
maid 65

I really don't keep track of clothes, food and entertainment. I paid cash for my apartment and furnishings.

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CaryGrant says on Aug 8, 2005, 13:02:

Thanks... ...for a very useful thread. I'm engaged to a Colombian and hope to live there while waiting for her visa to be approved, so have been wanting to know living costs.

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JustinCredible says on Aug 9, 2005, 05:24:

Currency??? I know this is a silly question but what currency are you talking in?? How long would 2milliom (feel the space) last for??

I am moving to Medellin with only a £250,000 in my english bank account. I was hoping that would last me through my retirement. Reading your post however, have given me second throughts!!

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quindioman says on Aug 9, 2005, 05:41:

£250.00 buying property, setting up a small business....quarter of a million queen's heads should do the trick. It all depends on how luxurious you want your retirement....If I had that kind of money in the bank I would be in the airport by now....mind you, i don't require much...a 2 bedroom house in an estrato lower than 3...i'd make money on the side by teaching english and pirating hollywood movies :p
GOOD LUCK!

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tomtom33 says on Aug 9, 2005, 07:24:

Currency I listed my expenses in thousands(K) of Colombian pesos(COP). To convert to US dollars, divide by 2300.

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BAQ says on Aug 9, 2005, 10:43:

yep I agree, 1/4 million in sterling should be no problem.

Semper Fidelis !

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BAQ says on Aug 9, 2005, 10:43:

yep I agree, 1/4 million in sterling should be no problem.

Semper Fidelis !

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jbk0904 says on Aug 10, 2005, 06:26:

Decent living in bogota you will need about USD3,000-4,000.00 to have decent living in Bogota.
spacious apartment, maids, health check, auto(suppose that you have one), good weekend life. cultural and joyful social activities..Otherwise, you don't need to live there with tight budget. I have been in Colombia, many different cities, for 46 times.

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 10, 2005, 07:51:

Wow, 46 times! Are you serious? How come you don't post more often? I am sure with your experience you've got a lot of knowledge.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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rjstuff says on Aug 10, 2005, 13:35:

I think he meant 46 hours! Anyone that expects to live well in USD 3,000 to 4,000 is correct - VERY VERY WELL. Most Colombians try and make it within USD 200 to 1000 a month (the lucky ones make 1000).

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JustinCredible says on Aug 10, 2005, 14:39:

Colombian retirement is back on Cheers Q. I should of read a few of the messsges before posting!! They all give away that they are talking in Colombian currency. I can breathe again!! Sorry about that!! I am not used to such big numbers!!!

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Rubiazo says on Aug 10, 2005, 20:53:

I've noticed something We have no real definition of 'living decently'
because for everybody this has a different meaning. Some people HAVE to have their favorite American brand of cereal, or French cigarettes, or English muffins, or whatever. Some people HAVE to have a car or they're not living decently (me I'm not living decently unless i can AVOID owning one).
Some people have to have the heat on if its 60 degrees out outside (15C). Some have to have the AC on if it's 80 degrees out (=26C)
Some have to have both of the above, or they are miserable.
To me, living decently in Bogota would entail the following:
-Eating as much as I want of whatever I want that is locally available (fresh meats, fish, fruits, veggies)
-Living in an Estrato 3 or 4 neighborhood and paying all my bills.
-Hot showers daily.
-Broadband internet (the only luxury I need no matter what)
-A cell phone (if I were retired or independently wealthy I'd probably never even turn it on though!)
-Money to go out 2-3 times a month and take a taxi back. I'm not a big drinker or smoker, and I would TOTALLY avoid all the estrato 6 places anyways.

The only things I would HAVE to have from the US are clothes and shoes, unless I wanted to tailor-make everything. But seeing as I have kids up here, ongoing projects and contract stuff, and a house to take care of, I'd just buy it up here when I was here.

I would definitely make a go of using the bicycle as my primary means of transport down there, as that is what I do here in the Bronx. Hopefully I wouldn't be losing bikes all the time like GIB says.

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Rubiazo says on Aug 10, 2005, 20:54:

To me $3000-4000 USD sounds about right for London, Paris, or Tokyo. To me even in NYC after prices have skyrocketed, if you need THAT much money just to get by you are living pretty high off of the hog!!!

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 10, 2005, 21:29:

The other day I was depressed about money or the lack thereof. My wife and I looked at each other and said, we got one thing that's free.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Miguel says on Aug 10, 2005, 22:53:

$3K-$4K A Month In Bogotá? That sounds WAY out of whack.

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Diez Y Siete says on Aug 10, 2005, 23:55:

3k ....alot 3k sounds like quite alot. especially if you were single. maybe if you had two kids and a wife and you were sending both kids to cgn or something

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Lostgringo says on Aug 11, 2005, 00:00:

Utopia what is it death or taxes lol

Your Home Away from Home www.welovebogota.com and www.apartmentinbogota.com "Luxury apartments and rooms Cheap" Only 2 blocks from the American Embassy! 24/7 hour security.

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jbk0904 says on Aug 12, 2005, 00:14:

US$3000 is not a lot in bogota Of course, US$3000 is based on 4 people in the family. As a single, you still need at least $1,500-$2,000 to live good in Bogota. Some body said that 3k is good to live in Tokyo. NO WAY JOSE. Tokyo is No 1 for a expensive place to live in the the world. It is a true that many local Colombians are living with very low income. Is that a decent life? People from high class are living with more than $5,000-$10,000 avaragely. That is a super life over there. But you need 3k to have a pretty comfortable living in capital, Bogota.

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Rubiazo says on Aug 12, 2005, 19:39:

well then DEFINE a decent living.
I would have a hell of a hard time even spending $3-4k USD a month in Bogota!!
Man, here in NYC 95% of the population make less than that!! Are you trying to say Bogota is MORE expensive than NYC, or that 95% of the people here are not living decently?? And we have the highest wages in the WORLD!!
The median income in the US BEFORE tax is $31k a year USD per FAMILY! After tax you're looking at somewhere in the neighborhood of $2k per month or so! And we're economically at the top of the heap over here! What about people in Canada, Germany, UK, Japan?

I'm really racking my brain trying to think of what you would waste it on. After you totally overpayed for your 1.5million a month apt, and payed for all the Estrato 6 utilities, what do you do? Eat at the most expensive restaurant you can find nightly? Take taxis everywhere or (even sillier in Bogota) have a car? What's the going rate for sex industry professionals there? Are you doing mountains of cocaine nightly? Damn, even THAT is dirt cheap!

A TOP quality education for your kiddies is not going to run more than 500k a month a child. How many kids are you going to have to pay for?

BTW My friend who lives and works in Tokyo makes around that amount, and seems to be doing just fine. He's certainly not starving, or staying in his apt every night for lack of funds!

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BAQ says on Aug 12, 2005, 20:22:

GOOD POINT Rubiazo, it all depends on one's prospective. OHHH, what I would give for broad band internet in Barranquilla. This dial up service sucks.

Can tell you for a fact that if you OWN your home/apartment in Barranquilla (no payments), you and a spouse can live "Decent" on 3 million a month, pretty much as you described, no car, little or no imported foods, being able to go out a few nights a month ect.

Hope the info helps

Semper Fidelis !

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rjstuff says on Aug 13, 2005, 09:20:

Not in 3 milllion but 2 million will do it! My fiancee lives in barranquilla (for one more week) - she has lived there the last 5 years in her mom's home and taken care of her mom and had a maid servant etc. etc. in about $800 a month - and she was very happy! (she used taxis or local busses; dial up internet; one dog; no cell phones and no a/cs.)
Now she is willing to come live with me in cold Colorado! Thanks Barranquilla!

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BAQ says on Aug 13, 2005, 09:50:

No a/c Yea, NO a/c, no cell phone ect, that is what RUBIAZO was saying, it all depends on you idea of "Decent". You are correct, 800 a month can do it, but without some of the things I prefer to have like Direct TV 180.000 per month, A.M.I Medical service 48.000 per month, a/c bill is probably 200.000 more per month because of the A/C ect.

Guess it is all Perception, what you can live with and what you can;t.

GOOD LUCK, bet ya can;t wait till she gets to Colorado. Make sure and take her to Garden of the Gods! She will probably freak out when the first good snow hits hahahah.

Semper Fidelis !

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Mr. Hollywood says on Aug 13, 2005, 10:08:

What people make in NYC Rubiazo said, "I would have a hell of a hard time even spending $3-4k USD a month in Bogota!! Man, here in NYC 95% of the population make less than that!!"

I think you're missing a crucial detail, though, which is that almost nobody in NYC lives ALONE. A two adult household making $4,000 per month each comes to nearly $100,000 per year. Sadly, that doesn't actually go very far in New York. And on the low end I'm sure you know how many people live crammed 8 to a 1 bdrm apartment in places like NYC. If that's your standard of "living decently" more power to you, but I can't imagine why anyone would move to Colombia only to live a tenement existance.

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BAQ says on Aug 13, 2005, 10:26:

Fine in Colombia My retirement give me a little over 6 million pesos per month and I am fine with that, allows me to get everything I need, most of what I would like to have and allows me to put some money back for emergencies.

IN CONTRAST, If I was still living in the States, I would be getting taxed out the ass for my home, my car ect and would not have anywhere near the disposabile income I have here. Sure there are trade off's between living in the States and in Colombia and for me, the scale tips in the direction of Colombia.

As I posted on another thread, its all PERCEPTION !! One mans heaven is another man's hell.

As long as you are HAPPY, that is all that matters.

Semper Fidelis !

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jbk0904 says on Aug 13, 2005, 17:42:

Good point..BAQ Of course, it matters...someone could be happy with 1k, others could not be. Decent is just decent...not a indecent..

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vicshere says on Aug 13, 2005, 23:00:

my costs per month my expenses per month family of 2 adults and 11 year old in Bucaramanga
rent 350,000
gas 35,000
electric 40,000
water 40,000
cable TV 26,000
phone 45,000
adsl 54,000
medical 56,000
car gas /insurance/plates/taxes/repair 220,000 don't drive much
food 400,000
clothing 150,000
school 65,000
motorcycle gas /insurance/plates/taxes/repair 40,000 ride a a lot
personal 50,000
cleaning lady 4 days/month 50,000
misc 50,000
Total 1,416,000

does this help any body?


listo
"con mucho gusto"
Vic
homepage
http://spaces.msn.com/members/jacintoplace

listo

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Rubiazo says on Aug 14, 2005, 00:33:

Sounds great vic do you consider yourself to be living comfortably? It sounds like you have everything you could ever want!

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Hunter says on Aug 14, 2005, 00:42:

My expenses per month, just me, Medellin (estrata 3), no rent, I own the apt.

gas 15,000
electric 25,000
water 15,000
Direct TV 158,000
Phone 30,000
Internet 43,000
food 500,000
clothing 100,000
Drinking/women 500,000
misc 50,000
Property Tax 20,000
Buyilding Insurance 45,000
Building Admin 70,000
Car Space rental -50,000
Total 1,521,000

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Lostgringo says on Aug 14, 2005, 06:48:

BAQ Direct TV That works out to $93 Canadian. That is pretty expensive for TV. You must get alot of channels?

Your Home Away from Home www.welovebogota.com and www.apartmentinbogota.com "Luxury apartments and rooms Cheap" Only 2 blocks from the American Embassy! 24/7 hour security.

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tomtom33 says on Aug 14, 2005, 07:29:

Hunter You must be slacking off on the chicas. I don't drink at all, but my drinking/women expense is much higher. Maybe I need to spend more time away from the tourist areas.

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Hunter says on Aug 14, 2005, 08:02:

Direct TV Has a couple of hundred channels.

Tomtom33, not bothered much with the women for a few years now, getting old, or maybe just got bored of them.

Hunter

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Lostgringo says on Aug 14, 2005, 08:09:

Direct TV I may subcribe when I get to Bogota. I have been without Direct TV in Canada ever since Black Monday when Direct TV hit all the pirated cards lol.

Your Home Away from Home www.welovebogota.com and www.apartmentinbogota.com "Luxury apartments and rooms Cheap" Only 2 blocks from the American Embassy! 24/7 hour security.

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Hunter says on Aug 14, 2005, 08:13:

franko_44 Cable is a lot cheapear, but no where near as good.

Hunter

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BAQ says on Aug 14, 2005, 12:00:

HOW? Wow, I don;t see how you guys are getting away with such low costs for water and electric. I own a 3 bedroom / 3 bath house, approx 1600sq feet, and my water is 115.000 per month and my electric is 350.000 per month and that is using the A/C ONLY in the master bedroom.

Maybe I should sell my house and buy a nice apartment someplace.

Semper Fidelis !

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BAQ says on Aug 14, 2005, 12:08:

Direct TV Yea, I get ALL the channels (Gold Package + 1 adult channel) and have service in three different rooms (3 converter boxes)

If ya want an adult channel, VENUS is the best out of the three that are offered. Funny part is, my wife had never seen an adult channel before, NOW she enjoys watching it. hahahha.

Who ever said Colombian women were CONSERVATIVE !!!!

Semper Fidelis !

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vicshere says on Aug 14, 2005, 12:24:

BAQ check your bills to see if it has the gringo rate on it....heheeheehee....keep in mind BAQ....in Colombia you have to be careful with your neighbor ..here's what I mean....I bought I lot which had a shack at the back where people where living...but when I bought they moved out...when the people lived there the bills where normal.... the next bills came in the same....hummmm funny...so the third month comes along... the bills come about the same again.....hummmm again..when to water and electric they said bills where pro rated every 4 months...ok shit now I am paying for carp the old owners where using ok...it wasn't that much so I let it go....will the 5th month comes around the bills have gone down a bit....ok dam it now I am pissed....again go to utilities company... they don't understand suggest I call an electrical and have him investigate where power is being consumed...same with water....well electrical guy pulled the meter apart and found that some wiring very nicely concealed running to the neighbor ....so we cut them off....now this got me thinking about the water to....so I read the meter came back in the afternoon and dam the meter moved....dam nothing being used inside the lot.....well it turns out the scum neighbor had dug under his wall "T" into my pipe and was running a small kitchen....how did I find the T well I took a hammer and I tapped the concrete where the pipe ran and listened for hollow sounds sure enough we found it ...anyway if you suspect you paying too much its always worth to have a look at the system especially if you just bought.....but stealing electricity in Colombia is very common place

listo
"con mucho gusto"
Vic
homepage
http://spaces.msn.com/members/jacintoplace

listo

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BAQ says on Aug 14, 2005, 13:07:

Thanks Yes, stealing the utilities is ask common as crossing the street here. I have looked around for "Strange" wires leading some place else and have not seen any. Never thought about wires being behind the meter. I will check that today. Will do the same with the water, check the meter in the morning and again in the afternoon before the maid starts doing laundry.

THANKS !

Semper Fidelis !

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BAQ says on Aug 14, 2005, 13:07:

Thanks Yes, stealing the utilities is ask common as crossing the street here. I have looked around for "Strange" wires leading some place else and have not seen any. Never thought about wires being behind the meter. I will check that today. Will do the same with the water, check the meter in the morning and again in the afternoon before the maid starts doing laundry.

THANKS !

Semper Fidelis !

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tomtom33 says on Aug 14, 2005, 18:58:

BAQ Hunter doesn't need to shower twice a day in Envigado. And he probably does not need AC.

Your bills are similar to mine in CTG with a 1200 sq. ft. condo.

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BAQ says on Aug 14, 2005, 21:04:

Makes me feel better Thanks TOM, I was crawling all over the damn roof this PM looking for strange wires, checking above the ceiling ect. I was starting to get paranoid, expecially after seeing all the posts with LOW electric and water bills.

Semper Fidelis !

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vicshere says on Aug 14, 2005, 21:33:

BAQ here's a list of my electrical appliances
1 big fridge frost free brand new
1 coffee machine
1 food blender
1 juicer
1 coffee grinder
1 answering machine
2 TV 25" 21"
1 cable tv box
2 stereos
1 DVD
1 VHS
1 computer / 2 priniters laser inikjet/ dvd cd complete
1 laptop
2 night table clocks
we iron very little thank god
10 light fixture
1 washing machine new
for that we pay about 40,000/ month
does that help



listo
"con mucho gusto"
Vic
homepage
http://spaces.msn.com/members/jacintoplace

listo

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tomtom33 says on Aug 14, 2005, 21:37:

Vic You also live at a higher elevation. Us Costeños need more electricity and water.

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Hunter says on Aug 14, 2005, 23:23:

BAQ My apt is 1,650 sq ft, but doesn't have any A/C, its not needed in Medellin, that will be the main reason there for the electric.

Regarding the water, its only me, also water charges are more expensive on the coast, but not that much more, how many people are staying at your place?

Hunter

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Hunter says on Aug 14, 2005, 23:31:

vicshere Nice story, I haven't seen it yet in Colombia, although I have heard about it.

I rented a small warehouse with an office once in London, the owner lived in the house on the front of the street. One of the partners noticed the electricity charges were a bit high, after calling the electric company out to check the meter, the guy said that he suspected that the house was on the same meter, after checking into it we found the house didn't have an electric meter, just one meter for both places in the warehouse.

There are con artists the world over.

Hunter

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Rubiazo says on Aug 15, 2005, 00:36:

Over here too When I bought this house in the Bronx and was doing my initial round of improvements, the electrician asked if I wanted him to shunt some of the wires behind the panels for $1k or so. I'm glad I didn't do it though; a tenant thought he was getting ripped off on electricity about a year later and called ConEd (local utility co) and initiated a full-blown inspection. I'd probably be in jail right now, or at least bankrupt!

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orestesdd says on Sep 13, 2007, 14:40:

So can you live comfortably with about 4.5 million a month in Bogota or Chia?

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morphus says on Sep 13, 2007, 15:31:

Sure...as long as you don't buy hookers every night and go to the casino.

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