How can teenagers avoid going in the army?

Medellin Traveler says on Feb 21, 2008, 21:31:

The army will make a man out of him. He's already trying to run away from his duties, what's next? All citizens must contribute to making Colombia a better place for all of Colombians alike. See your neighborhood Paraco for advice and direction, bring money.

Discover Medellin, Antioquia - Colombia www.medellintraveler.com

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Robert Jorge says on Feb 21, 2008, 21:33:

The amount to pay depends on the household's income / estrato. I don't know any details on where to go, or who to pay off. My wife's brother got out of serving this way. Partly also, because he is the only male child. The family is pretty poor, and I heard the payoff was a couple hundred thousand pesos. Not a lot to us, but that is a month's rent to them.

"You can not take the barrio out of the girl you really can't." Oneforamillion

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Simon says on Feb 21, 2008, 21:40:

Tell your nephew to stop being a coward and that it's an honor to fight for 'La Patria'!!

"Just an honest, decent Colombian trying to do the right thing."--Simon

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Sam Salmon says on Feb 21, 2008, 21:46:

The kid should think carefully-or rather his family should-this could adversely affect his future.

Avoiding the draft means no jobs in the police or security-ever-and being taken out of line/made to wait every time he has to show his military discharge papers.

' a la orden!'

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adrimm (Moderator) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 21, 2008, 21:54:

miamimike says on Feb 21, 2008, 22:05:

If they were here in the USA when we had a draft they could shoot for a College Deferment via Political Connections and Legacy Admissions to some Ivy league School or get a 4F Slip (unfit for duty) for something like a Pilonidal Cyst(r. limbaugh). The Current Batch of Pundits&Fogeybottoms in Wash DC used these routes to escape Military Duty! LOL No such luck in Colombia.

Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte después Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte de

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miamimike says on Feb 21, 2008, 22:13:

If anything, you should be encouraging your Nephew to Serve his Country. For some of us, our Military Service was a Proud Moment in our lives and values gained in the Military will guide him in life's Journey. His Service to Country will make you proud beyond Words,,,

Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte después Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte de

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Robert Jorge says on Feb 21, 2008, 22:37:

I guess nobody is going to answer the question - just give personal opinions.

"You can not take the barrio out of the girl you really can't." Oneforamillion

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scotty says on Feb 22, 2008, 00:00:

send cash to my account and i will tell you how to avoid army or go to www.colorblind.com

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 02:32:

kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 02:34:

miamimike says on Feb 22, 2008, 04:06:

RJ--Yep when someone puts a post out, thats the risk they run, people leaving Opinions. Happens every day! LOL

Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte después Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte de

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miamimike says on Feb 22, 2008, 04:11:

And that cliche that the Army makes a Man out of him, is rubbish , many of them are Gay!!! :)))


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry Kat but my personal experience with Military Service does not bear your "Cliche" statement out! I served my Country in our Military Proudly for 4 years 6 months during the Vietnam Era and have a Very different opinion and it was not Rubbish, serving one's Country! AND,,, we were NOT ALL Gay. This a Demeaning Remark to the many good men who serve. Please Choose your Comments more Carefully in the Future. Thank You

Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte después Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte de

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 04:24:

Alma del Norte (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 04:26:

kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 04:27:

Alma del Norte (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 04:30:

vicshere says on Feb 22, 2008, 05:27:

trying to avoid serving your country is gay....the army certainly makes a man out of you....in my days I saw many a whip become the real men they were and I to never came across any one gay quite the opposite...I would say most of them were women crazy

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pedro (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 05:35:

elkfarmer says on Feb 22, 2008, 05:41:

Just my dos pesos worth. I too am a Viet Nam vet from America now in Bogota. I did not like the service for 4 years either, but the experience I would not trade for anything. Beats the hell out of college, and taught me about life. God, it´s not like you have a war going on down here. The best advise in the world would be, to go for your country. But then, that is the problem in this whole country. No one really cares about anything but themselves and the almighty peso.

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vicshere says on Feb 22, 2008, 05:48:

No one really cares about anything but themselves and the almighty peso.

farmer you hit the nail on the head I would just change "no one" to "Many"
many families try to keep there kids from the service because it is a tad dangerous and usually has nothing to do with family economics

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JGD (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 06:32:

ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 07:01:

thur says on Feb 22, 2008, 07:08:

I don't know exactly how to avoid getting drafted in Colombia. But you're absolutely right to do anything possible to avoid him going... I know people who were forced into military service (despite good Icfes, university applications, money, etc.): it was a year of pure hell (for the people involved and their family). A year of physical and mental abuse, getting sunburned of standing all day in the sun, being cold on the Sabana de Bogotá, harsh conditions of not being able (not allowed) to wash for a week, swollen infected feet, crawling through and eating shit (figuratively and literally), getting bruises, swollen eyes, broken noses... having to put up with bossy kids on a power trip. He'll learn how to smoke, drink, do drugs, be rude to civilians, abuse his position, etc. This was all in/around Bogotá...
However, having said that, it might be a bit different now... as he could be put as a bachiller in the transport department (Transmilenio) or something like that. The presidential guard position is also not as harsh, from what I've heard. It's all a waste of money anyway, as most of these drafted kids will never actually be useful to the army.
Good luck.
Greetings,

- pbase.com/thur

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 07:09:

kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 07:20:

poco says on Feb 22, 2008, 08:12:

Quote: If he´s drafted,

There is NO DRAFT. Everyone registers and gets a card.
1. You serve 18 months BUT lots of political rhetoric about more/less etc.
2. You can apply for the draft exemption as noted. Cost is around 400,000 pesos but is tied to the estrato level and goes up/down depending.
3. A medical exemption card. When you apply for the "regular" card you might not pass the physical.

High School Graduates are called "bachillers" and can serve in the National Police or Military. A "bachiller" is a HELPER and to the best of my knowledge are NOT put in a combatant position.

Paying for a deferment is the absolute worst thing a person can do. Exceptions would be those members of a family with a business that would train/employ them.

Paying for the exemption ELIMINATES the individual from ever serving for the police and military and as far as I know, other government jobs. There are also many places that WILL NOT HIRE people with the paid exemption card.

Guess what,, these jobs can pay quite well and have a PENSION. Pensions are becoming a thing of the past in Colombia. Military retirement after serving 20 years and you're out at around age 40 with a pension. Not bad. Funny thing,, The Colombian Military does NOT WANT most of these guys, they serve and go home.

PS: I DISAGREE with almost all of Kat1's posts. Truly clueless thoughts. The most outstanding is the failure to acknowledge that boys need to become men. A large part of becoming a man is learning respect, responsibility and dependability. Attributes that are NOT common in the average 18 years old. After 18 months they WILL understand these attributes.

Colombian Chickens are crowing about the new President of the U.S. who will assure that From each according to their ability to each according to their need.

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ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 08:22:

kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 08:28:

kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 08:30:

vicshere says on Feb 22, 2008, 08:39:

kat I have noticed that many of my male students ages 16 to 25 are "maricas" spelling... its very obvious that the parents have no clue how to raise a man....I also see it in my Colombian nephews....its totally pathetic.....they baby the males till they are into their 30's ...and those never become men...just dependent babies...at least in Canada the men usually leave home before their early 20's and learn very fast about life

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ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 08:43:

poco says on Feb 22, 2008, 08:51:

Quote: Poco but you don't need to go to the army to learn this attributes do you?

No, but I'd say a good 80% don't have them at 18. I'm being kind with that number. Many will someday gain a semblance but NOT when they are 19. Most,, NEVER learn them.

I'm going with vicsheres post because that is also my opinion.

Zangano is the Spanish word ie: worthless, lazy and a barnacle on the ass end of society.

Air Force Military Card.

Colombian Chickens are crowing about the new President of the U.S. who will assure that From each according to their ability to each according to their need.

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msaucey says on Feb 22, 2008, 08:52:

There is a huge difference for serving in Colombia then serving in the U.S.... If we were to switch the tables around and require every 18 year old boy/man to automatically enter the Army or any other service, what do you think the reaction would be? The same that it is in Colombia.... A great majority of families would see how their son should be the exception and what needs to be done so that he doesn't serve...

Bottomline, is that yes, there's always loopholes in a system that requires and mandates people to serve in the Army.... Some use it and some don't....

As for being gay or not, I do believe that's irrelevent.... Colombia gay men have the same issues as American gay men.... Don't ask Don't tell policy, I'm sure is more common throughout the world about sexuality...

Character is built at home, part of normal upbringing and so forth.... I do believe that the Army can instill some additional qualities, as such, responsibility at a younger age, respect, and goal setting. Unfortunately, with the good come the bad, not everyone is made to be a better person in the armed forces, and there are also cases with soldiers that do extremely malice things...

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

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poco says on Feb 22, 2008, 09:01:

Quote: and there are also cases with soldiers that do extremely malice things...

I think these same people would do the same thing no matter where they are located.

Seperate the men from the boys might be better stated as: Seperate the boys from the losers.

Colombian Chickens are crowing about the new President of the U.S. who will assure that From each according to their ability to each according to their need.

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poco says on Feb 22, 2008, 09:07:

Quote: I learned how to look after myself in the army

Something MOST Colombian men have NOT learned. I'm absolute on this,, no changing my mind. I've never seen such a bunch of "Momas Boys".

These guys need a wife,, not as a parter, but someone to cook, clean the house, raise kids and wash clothes.

After a few years they'll be in the bars and seek a lover,, if they can afford one.

Colombian Chickens are crowing about the new President of the U.S. who will assure that From each according to their ability to each according to their need.

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 09:10:

ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 09:12:

kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 09:14:

msaucey says on Feb 22, 2008, 09:14:

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Italian men do the same thing, there are still quite a fewcultures where the sons live at home until they are wed....

Yes, in the states, it's different, a lot of men move away, but it doesn't happen on their 18th birthday or during their 18th year unless they move away to attend uni.... they aim to move out by 21.... if possible... remember, an uneducated 18 year old making $8 an hour is also not going to be able to afford to live on their own... and yes, I'm sure there are a few exceptions, but sometimes it's much easier to live at home and save then move out..... Actually, I think there are more kids living at home now in the states then there used to be, since it's so expensive to live on your own.... heck some have baby and move the whole family in under their parents homes....

Again, there are exceptions, but it happens....

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

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ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 09:16:

poco says on Feb 22, 2008, 09:17:

Quote: Bottomline, is that yes, there's always loopholes in a system that requires and mandates people to serve in the Army.... Some use it and some don't....

I'd suppose you could get a Military Card, go home and they might never call you into service. A perfect situation for the truly worthless and saves the military some money.

Don't get registered,, Ha, Ha,, I've seen quite of few Military Trucks,, BIG TRUCKS,, maybe 2 ton with a tarp cover, rounding up guys w/o the card. Yep,, they ask them for ID and if they don't have it,,, then,, they put them in the truck. Why so big,, well,, I've seen these guys loading bicycles inside. This is QUITE common, saw these trucks in two towns last year.

BTW: The pay for a bachiller is either 30,000 or 60,000 per month. I think it was 30,000 but, the exchange rate,, can't remember I'd bet on 30,000.

Colombian Chickens are crowing about the new President of the U.S. who will assure that From each according to their ability to each according to their need.

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 09:20:

kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 09:22:

ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 09:23:

poco says on Feb 22, 2008, 09:27:

Quote: So. Everyone who doesn't go in the military is destined to become a patty flipper?

I said: Separate the men from the boys might be better stated as: Separate the boys from the losers.

I'd say about 10% of the folks in the U.S. and 50% in Colombia couldn't hold a patty flipper job.

To be a failure in either place requires BOTH attributes: LAZY and INCOMPENET. Colombia has a high percentage of LAZY folks.

AND THAT is the TRUTH.

Colombian Chickens are crowing about the new President of the U.S. who will assure that From each according to their ability to each according to their need.

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vicshere says on Feb 22, 2008, 09:28:

right on poco

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 09:31:

ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 09:35:

poco says on Feb 22, 2008, 09:35:

Quote: does everybody in the USA goes to the army? if so how many 50%

Service is voluntary. No one is required to enter the Military.

Colombian Chickens are crowing about the new President of the U.S. who will assure that From each according to their ability to each according to their need.

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 09:36:

kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 09:38:

poco says on Feb 22, 2008, 09:40:

Quote: because here in the UK few, not the majority i would said, so does this make the majority here patty flippers?

No, although from the looks of things I'd say it will take a few more years to develop a majority of losers, but,, they won't be able to hold down a patty flipper job.

Colombian Chickens are crowing about the new President of the U.S. who will assure that From each according to their ability to each according to their need.

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ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 09:41:

ujay says on Feb 22, 2008, 09:46:

at 18 you can be called ,you get put in the 1st line ,you can be called any time up till your 28,
you can pay not to go on the 1st line ,its under the table but is done a lot,you just get put on the 2nd line,if you are the only one in a family ,the only child you don't go ,they do not use a only child.

http://www.jukelightning.com

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poco says on Feb 22, 2008, 09:51:

Quote: so how many join the Army voluntary then? any figure?

As of April 2007, about 1,426,700 people are on active duty in the military with an additional 1,458,500 people in the seven reserve components.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_the_United_States

This number should include all branches.

So, I'd say about 3 Million or about 1% of the population.

Education,, humm,, how would a relatively poor person get these benefits?

U.S. Military Education:

Myth:
The Military is a roadblock to a higher education.

Reality:
Qualified servicemembers can receive more than $70,000 in tuition benefits.
Over 30,000 degrees were earned by service personnel in 1999 alone.
The Military operates over 300 schools, teaching more than 10,000 courses.
More than half the enlisted force has some college experience.
The Military offers retired personnel up to $100/month reimbursement for tutorial assistance.
The Military provides free training for personnel interested in starting or enhancing a small business.
Many military bases bring in professors from local colleges to teach courses.
Military personnel can take college courses through the Internet.
http://todaysmilitary.com/app/tm/like/myths?seo=googlemilitary

Colombian Chickens are crowing about the new President of the U.S. who will assure that From each according to their ability to each according to their need.

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 09:52:

ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 09:54:

Robert Jorge says on Feb 22, 2008, 09:54:

kat1, if there were 3 million soldiers total in the US, that would be 1% of the US population. I think there is about half that amount.

"You can not take the barrio out of the girl you really can't." Oneforamillion

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 09:58:

JGD (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 10:01:

To redirect the post to the original Q:

http://www.col.ops-oms.org/juventudes/Situacion/LEGISLACION/ORDEN/DECR...

You are worried the US is going to invade and take the Venezuelan oil?... you are selling everything to them !!Peruvian Pres. Alan Garcia to Chavez

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Robert Jorge says on Feb 22, 2008, 10:03:

Miamimike and others - when I made the comment about "no answers - just opinions" - I was hoping that people would understand that we know NOTHING about the circumstances of the original poster's nephew (or whatever he was). The first several posts encouraged military service, gave no information, and a few even looked down on somebody not serving. There are so many possible reasons he or his family do not want him to serve, that have nothing to do with being less than honorable, one could write a book on the topic.

And anybody that even has skimmed my posts over the past couple of years knows I am pro-military. It just isn't for everyone - and I would never presume to judge a person whom isn't even in my home country, whom I know nothing about, about their choices for military service.

"You can not take the barrio out of the girl you really can't." Oneforamillion

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 10:06:

joanseb says on Feb 22, 2008, 10:21:

aqui muchos jovenes quieren irse al ejercito y eso se ve en las tempradas de reclutamiento. La mayoria no quiere irse porque tienen muchos planes o no ven su vida en el ejercito, personalmente nunca iria al ejercito ni aqui ni en otro pais simplmente porque va contra mis principios morales.
Tal vez para los gringos sea un orgullo estar en el ejercito(no veo la razon, y sobretodo despues de la administracion bush), pero aqui en colombia hay demasiados factores que nos motiva a no estar en el ejercito.

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ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 10:21:

poco says on Feb 22, 2008, 10:25:

Quote: You know being Colombian, and a mother and Knowing how is Colombia i would avoid at all cost for my son to do the Army service just like many mother's in Colombia will do.

Gezzz,, graduate from High School and serve as a military HELPER (or Police). I don't think there is ANY combat. But you can be certain I'll know the answers.

I wonder the percentage of Mothers in Colombia that think like that and tell their children they should break the law? Is this linked to the problem with terrorists?

The statement could refer to JOINING the Military, before and after their 18 months and that is NOT for everyone.

Colombian Chickens are crowing about the new President of the U.S. who will assure that From each according to their ability to each according to their need.

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Simon says on Feb 22, 2008, 10:29:

"The soldiers in Colombia are at least fighting for a good cause in their own country. If I was Colombian, I would'nt be too proud about skipping out on military service. "

Amazing, I think this is the first time I agree with something you said!

"Just an honest, decent Colombian trying to do the right thing."--Simon

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poco says on Feb 22, 2008, 10:34:

Quote: Anybody that tells me they got out of going to Vietnam or Iraq would get my utmost respect.

Vietnam had a draft. During that period in time 18 years olds were given a NUMBER. If you're number was called,, off you went, either to Vietnam or Canada.

Iraq is volunteers.

Colombian Chickens are crowing about the new President of the U.S. who will assure that From each according to their ability to each according to their need.

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Robert Jorge says on Feb 22, 2008, 10:42:

Poco said: "I wonder the percentage of Mothers in Colombia that think like that and tell their children they should break the law?"

Getting a deferment in Colombia (or whatever the proper term is), is within the law. It is certainly not breaking it.

"You can not take the barrio out of the girl you really can't." Oneforamillion

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 10:59:

kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 11:03:

kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 11:11:

Robert Jorge says on Feb 22, 2008, 11:11:

If I could get paid $40,000 usd a month in Iraq, where do I sign up? I'll even supply my own weapons. That's $480,000 usd, 950 million cop a year tax free.

"You can not take the barrio out of the girl you really can't." Oneforamillion

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 11:13:

msaucey says on Feb 22, 2008, 11:17:

Heck, RJ, pick me up when you go... for $40K a month, I'm in too....

On a side note, is the colombian military as stringent as u.s. military when choosing recruits?... or is it, you're 18 and breathing....

I've come across a lot of mom's with teenage sons that check out the declining voluntary statistics for the military and the never ending Iraq (war/or whatever we're calling it now), because they're terrified that the draft may be installe once again in the u.s. for service and are definitely thinking of alternatives....

Again, this is voluntary in the u.s., not in Colombia... Colombia you must serve unless you can get out of it.... what other countries mandate military service?

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

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ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 11:19:

Robert Jorge says on Feb 22, 2008, 11:22:

If I was in Iraq, I would want to ride around in one of these while escorting VIPs.

"You can not take the barrio out of the girl you really can't." Oneforamillion

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JGD (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 11:28:

juancegomez says on Feb 22, 2008, 11:44:

The main subject of this post has been debated before...so here's a bit of a recent news update that some people might have overlooked.

It concerns the cost of the military card for those who are legally exempt from service.

Btw, a list of reasons for exemption or deferment can be found below, although some of the other information is now outdated: http://www.ejercito.mil.co/index.php?idcategoria=374

Back to the actual news...the Constitutional Court had previously ruled against part of the law on procedural grounds last year (which meant that, for a while, there was no extra cost and I imagine that the card could be legally obtained for a very cheap price), so Congress had to come up with a new, explicit formula.

Or actually two: one for estratos 1, 2, 3 and another for 4,5,6.

The payments can also be made over a certain period of time now, not all at once.

Read on.

--------------
Febrero 13 de 2008

Congreso revivió cobro de libreta militar para quienes no presten el servicio obligatorio

La cuota de compensación que exige el Ejército Nacional para obtener el documento había sido declarado inexequible en agosto del año pasado por un fallo de la Corte Constitucional.

Ahora, los jóvenes de los estratos 4, 5 y 6 tendrán que desembolsar un 60 por ciento del total de ingresos que reciban mensualmente, más un 1 por ciento del patrimonio líquido de su núcleo familiar.

Los muchachos de los estratos 1, 2 y 3 tendrán que pagar solo un 15 por ciento de un salario mínimo mensual, es decir, unos 69.200 pesos.

Para quienes no tengan esta cifra, la nueva norma, que ayer en la tarde pasó a sanción del Presidente de la República, establece que se podrán acordar pagos diferidos, como si se tratara de una compra con tarjeta de crédito.

"Logramos algo muy importante, que los 'sisbenizados' paguen menos cuota de compensación, porque antes tenían que pagar un salario mínimo", explica el representante Augusto Posada Sánchez, uno de los promotores de este proyecto en el Congreso.

La libreta militar es un documento indispensable para los colombianos, pues con esta se logra acceder al mercado laboral e ingresar o graduarse en las universidades.

Frente a las críticas que pueda despertar esta reforma, los promotores aseguran que se logró una reducción para dos grupos de la sociedad.

La senadora Piedad Zucardi asegura que antes el cobro de la cuota de compensación se hacía, para los estratos 4, 5 y 6, con base en el patrimonio bruto, y ahora se realizará con el patrimonio líquido.

La diferencia es que el patrimonio bruto son todos los bienes que tiene una persona y el líquido son todos los bienes, menos las deudas que pueda tener.

REDACCIÓN POL�TICA

http://www.eltiempo.com/politica/2008-02-14/ARTICULO-WEB-NOTA_INTERIOR...

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travelingirl says on Feb 22, 2008, 11:47:

$24,000 to 40,000 per month?! HAHA I'm with you, RJ-- sign me up. That video was hilarious. I want one.

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ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 11:49:

poco says on Feb 22, 2008, 11:58:

Quote: On a side note, is the colombian military as stringent as u.s. military when choosing recruits?...

OK, if you're taking people who WANT to join, as opposed to the mandatory draft, ie: Bachillers. Then they are pretty stringent, at least for Colombia.

You will be expected to take classes and increase you education, when you decide to stay in the military as a Noncom.

If you want to become an officer the current requirements dictate attending a military college. I do not think there is any financial help.

You must apply with the military to attend a military school. You must pass the exam and I believe they give these tests in Bogota. Not everyone passes. Don't pass,, tough luck. Even then, a person needs to have some money because Four years costs approx. 40 million, includes room and board. About the same as a doctors education.

I've been advised that those who are NOT SERIOUS about graduating,, ie: really want to join the Military as an officer WILL probably not graduate. Graduates will become Lieutenants.

Approx. 10% of those who attend DO NOT finish. It is not easy, but probably easier than the military schools in the U.S. like West Point. :>)

I think Lieutenants pay is about 2,500,000 pesos per month. A Colonel is pretty high,, not sure the active duty pay but their retirement pay will be around 6 to 7 million per month. Hummm,, about double that of U.S. social security. Except,,, Colombian social security is almost non-existant,, well,, OK,, for those in need,, 70 to 140 thousand pesos per month. Nice thing is,, they didn't contribute. :>)

Colombian Chickens are crowing about the new President of the U.S. who will assure that From each according to their ability to each according to their need.

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poco says on Feb 22, 2008, 12:10:

Ah, Ha,,, juancegomez to the rescue. What would happen if you quit posting?

I think this is GOOD,, ha,, I'd bet the F.A.R.C. will cease to exist fast,, wishfull thinking,, because these guys don't fight,, still a good idea.

I think it will be impossible to hide if you're really rich but the middle class,, well,, I'd say they will have estrado 3 homes listed as their residences. Some,, in the safer rural parts of Colombia,, like where I live,, :>) actually, many quite well off individuals do live in a 2 or 3 estrado home. You've got to be crazy to pay high utilities and taxes,, crazy, crazy, crazy.

They've started a "crack down" on,, humm what is it when you apply for poverty payments using the estrado 1 rent home as a residence and you're a school teacher or police officer,, stealing,, naw,, toooo harsh,,

Colombian Chickens are crowing about the new President of the U.S. who will assure that From each according to their ability to each according to their need.

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ujay says on Feb 22, 2008, 13:43:

i knew a ex sas guy from the uk here ,he was working for bp out at yopal been there 3 years 5000 dollars a month,nice guy ,he left went to iraq for 60,000 dollars a month yes 60 a month,he did the 1st 3 months came home on leave,made all sorts of plans on his new pay ,went back for the 2nd time ,never came home,his 3 kids want their dad ,they didn't want the money.....now if he could he would liked to have stayed in yopal,chasing money lost him his life....but still a lot are doing it....

http://www.jukelightning.com

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 13:47:

ujay says on Feb 22, 2008, 13:53:

so glad he was ok kat1,no joke being held moved around all the time,must have been a nightmare for him,but happy hes home.

http://www.jukelightning.com

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miamimike says on Feb 22, 2008, 14:49:

So Kat, Lets talk about England where you live; is your Impression of Prince Harry a Positive one or not? Imagine, a BlueBlood like Harry in the Infantry Division. It was well publicized last year when Harry was determined to go and fight with his Combat Unit in Iraq. Harry, obviously was well connected and could have easily done the "Cool and Trendy" thing and avoided Duty in a very Unpopular War we know as Iraq. But No, Unselfishly, Harry answered the Call stating "He couldn't let his Boys down by not going while they carried the fight". For me, If I lived in England, I would be so proud of this Young Man; He is a True Leader and if Miliatry service affected his Life, its certainly has been a positive change. As a Future Leader in England, I have NO doubt he will do his country proud. Imagine how Proud his Mum, Princess Dianna,, must be of him.Not only because of his Military Service but because of his Unselfish nature. As JFK said "Ask not what your Country can do for you, but what you can do for your Country. Forget the War was Iraq, to this Young Man, the Location wouldn't have mattered. HE WENT TO SERVE. I'm glad to see in this World Young Men like Harry, it restores my Faith in the Human Spirit. You in England are lucky to have him,,,

Kat, btw, on this Issue, I will just say, Respectfully, on your opinion concerning the Military in General, I will disagree with you, having been there,,,Poco made many good points I couldn't hit on any better myself.

Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte después Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte de

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 14:55:

miamimike says on Feb 22, 2008, 15:00:

On Price Harry's service:


The prince will become the first royal to serve in a war zone since his uncle, the Duke of York, piloted helicopters in the Falklands conflict 25 years ago.

Officials said Harry, who graduated as an officer last year, will serve as a troop commander in charge of several light tank reconnaissance vehicles.


*****But Harry, who graduated last year from Royal Military Academy at Sandhurst, has insisted he does not want special treatment********.



In a joint statement, they said: "We can confirm today that Prince Harry will deploy to Iraq later this year in command of a troop from 'A Squadron' of the Household Cavalry Regiment.

"Whilst in Iraq Cornet Wales (Harry's regimental title) will carry out a normal troop commander's role, involving leading a troop of 12 men in four Scimitar armored reconnaissance vehicles, each with a crew of three.

"The decision to deploy him has been a military one... The royal household has been consulted throughout."




Britain's Press Association quoted a regimental source saying Harry was "over the moon" at the news.

Harry has always said he wanted to put his training into practice.

*****"There is no way I am going to put myself through Sandhurst and then sit on my arse back home while my boys are out fighting for their country," he said on his 21st birthday.********


http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/02/22/harry.iraq/index.html

Kat in what points on Poco's POSt do I agree with? In General, all of them~I'm surprised you didn't have anything Postive to say about your prince Harry. many others worldwide think Higly of him! As far as Harry taking care of Himself, in that I think he is quite capable. He is a Man in every sense of the word. As the article stated, he asked for NO special Treatment,,,What more can one say? In the End, The Military would not send him into battle but that was NOT Harry's decision; he obeyed as an Obedient Soldier would on Orders.He is a Good man, you are lucky to have him as a Future Leader!

Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte después Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte de

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MaFe says on Feb 22, 2008, 15:19:

Kat..
"Alma if the whole of Colombia could, they all would pay the way out of the ARMY, MANY OF MY NEPHEW'S FRIENDS DID, and they are not estrato 5 o 6."

I don't agree with this, when all my male cousins were called to serve in colombia, my aunt offered to pay all their cards, every single one of them turned my tia down, and said it was their duty to serve Colombia.
=======================================================

"does everybody in the USA goes to the army? if so how many 50% ... and how many are originally Americans, not children of immigrants"
The Military in the US is voluntary, and I can assure you Americans as well as all types of immigrants VOLUNTEER to join the Military..and guess what? Many go in a doctors, lawyers, dentist, all professions! I know many people in all branches of the military..and they are Black, Indian, Latinos, European..actually almost every nation is represented!!
=====================================================

"you see in Colombia you do have to study hard to become something!!"

Just to let you know..in the U.S you study hard to become someone too...so please don't generalize!
============================================================

Lastly Kat,
"I agree CG, In Colombia you have to study hard to become something, here they don't care. they know the state gives them everything, they pass from mommy's hotel to state hotel."

You are so wrong. My grades gave me everything NOT the states. I had a full academic undergraduate scholarship. I was on a FULL ACADEMIC Law school scholarship- to any University of my liking, and I had a FULL ACADEMIC scholarship after law school to get my Ph.D. So don't tell me that the states give you everything, because MY BRAIN, my studying opened up doors for me, and gave me everything!

I have a cousin in Colombia who received a scholarship, instead of paying almost$2000 a semester, he has to pay $200 dollars..
Every country offers opportunities; it's up to the immigrant to see what he can accomplish.
I also believe everyone should serve their country.

Esluan, I belive some have answered your questions, but if your nephew has to serve in Colombia's military, they can also make him serve along side the police in his city.

"All human actions have one or more of these seven causes: chance, nature, compulsions, habit, reason, passion, desire. "-Aristotle

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MaFe says on Feb 22, 2008, 15:31:

Msaucey
"what other countries mandate military service?"

Countries that mandate service for both men and women;
Cuba, Israel, North Korea, Lybia, Eritrea.

Countries with Mandatory Military;
Zambia, Vietnam, Uzbekistan, Ukraine,Turkey, Turkmenistan, Tunisia, Tonga, Thailand, Tajikistan, Taiwan, Susan, Switzerland, Syria, Somalia, Singapore, Seychelles, Sao Tome and Principe, Russia, Poland, Paraguay, Moldova, Malaysia, Libya, Kuwait, South Korea, Norway, North Korea, Mongolia, Mexico, Laos, Iran, Guatemala, Greece, Germany, Georgia, Finland, Estonia, El Salvador, Egypt, Ecuador, Croatia, Cote-d'Ivoire, Congo, Colombia, China, Brazil, Bolivia, Azerbaijan, Austria, Angola, Algeria, Albania...

I am sured I missed a lot...

"All human actions have one or more of these seven causes: chance, nature, compulsions, habit, reason, passion, desire. "-Aristotle

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ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 15:35:

ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 15:36:

kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 15:37:

MaFe says on Feb 22, 2008, 15:47:

Kat, I know immigrants all over the world...no matter what country you are in, if you have the brains, and the desire- you will become someone.

It's not easy anywhere, do you think it's easy for an immigrant in a foreign country? No, but many have overcome their obstacles and succeeded.

CG, my ex, his uncle is a successful lawyer in Pereira. His family was very poor, despite all the odds, he has a great practice in Pereira, very well known, and went from being the lowest estrato to the highest. This man had no help from anyone, and of course he makes a lot less money than I and other international attorneys, BUT he lives very comfortable in Pereira, travels the world, has a daughter in law school, and the other one in oral surgery school. So as hard as it is in Colombia- there are opportunities.
I know how hard it is, I have mentioned before I am paying some cousins college, and plan to put all of them through college.

"All human actions have one or more of these seven causes: chance, nature, compulsions, habit, reason, passion, desire. "-Aristotle

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Alma del Norte (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 15:54:

kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 15:54:

kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 15:58:

ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 15:59:

kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 16:00:

ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 16:02:

MaFe says on Feb 22, 2008, 16:02:

CG, you are right....I found on my last trip there that there are many Colombians who have parents/family over seas, and still choose to do nothing con las vidas...

I was brought up very differently. I just wanted to clarify that whether you are in Europe or the United States and immigrate there..YOU DO HAVE the opportunity to overcome obstacles and start a new life. Colombia, I can't speak, but I know some people there who have succeeded despite all the odds being against them.

"All human actions have one or more of these seven causes: chance, nature, compulsions, habit, reason, passion, desire. "-Aristotle

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MaFe says on Feb 22, 2008, 16:05:

I don't agree with that palanca thing,,,I don't believe that is the case all times...but I am sure it can be more in Colombia...=(

My cousin studied Finance in Colombia too. He ended up in Switzerland, had to study again, learn the language..did all of this working 3 jobs. Now he has sitauted himself, speaks the 4 languages in Switzerland, Spanish, and is learning English. He had help from NO ONE..not a soul!

"All human actions have one or more of these seven causes: chance, nature, compulsions, habit, reason, passion, desire. "-Aristotle

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ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 16:08:

kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 16:10:

ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 16:11:

MaFe says on Feb 22, 2008, 16:11:

Switzerland is the same way...but the UK has many illegals too!

"All human actions have one or more of these seven causes: chance, nature, compulsions, habit, reason, passion, desire. "-Aristotle

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 16:12:

esluan says on Feb 22, 2008, 17:44:

well ...thanks for this fantastic dialogue...just got home and checked in........Just to throw in my two cents.....I am English and gave up a green card twice.....the first time was cause I didn't want to go to Vietnam...I live in canada....at that time the canadian government officially welcomed draft dodgers because Canadians felt the US policy and loss of young lives was immoral........er what was learnt about providing kids for cannon fodder .....
now again ex Chairman of the Fed ,.says US went into Iraq for oil....good american kids dying by the dozen.......
I support Canadian andUS troops but not their missions................pulling kids into the army has so often made them victims of crazy and immoral policy...they are truly victims
In colombia what I saw was an organized form of cheap almost slave labor provided by young lads ...standing around in those oversize uniforms...that waste of life talent and time is so misguided......so I really think this kind of serving has nothing to do with making men out of those boys...teaches nothing about values........kids get that from their parents extended families and friends...also what they see in the society around them
if you want topursue my line of reasoning more have a look at a british documentary which blew my international students away
http://chichicaste.blogcindario.com/2007/11/00754-war-on-democracy.htm...
cheers and thanks

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Alma del Norte (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 18:25:

Robert Jorge says on Feb 22, 2008, 19:28:

Plus, there are hot chicks in the FARC and you can date them!

"You can not take the barrio out of the girl you really can't." Oneforamillion

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Alma del Norte (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 22, 2008, 19:35:

Young, nonetheless wise says on Nov 20, 2008, 19:15:

Sad...
The world is truly a sad place if so many people truly have so little insight. Allow me to first say that if you require foul language and childish insults to make your point, you simply publish your lack of maturity. Secondly, GOING TO THE ARMY DOES NOT MAKE YOU A MAN. NEITHER DOES STAYING AT YOUR PARENT'S HOUSE ALL YOUR LIFE. What truly makes you a man are your own decisions. That is what affects your life. While it is true that these are affected by the people that surround you, in the end you are responsible for your actions. Anybody who think otherwise is either a chauvinist or sadly blind.

Either way, YOU ARE ALL MISSING THE POINT. THIS IS NOT FAIR TO THE PERSON BEING DRAFTED. One of my bet friend is going through this as I write. How can you take someone without regard for their own personal life, education, family, etc. ESPECIALLY IF (AS IS MY FRIEND'S CASE) YOU NO LONGER LIVE IN COLUMBIA!!! How can it be considered betraying your country if your country so clearly betrays you! If you are a truly wise and insightdul person you'll see this.

How can you even solve problems through fighting? Have you people never read a history book? Ever since the dawn of man, one empire conquers another only to be conquered itself later on. WAR FIXES NOTHING!!! How can you not see this? Personally, I think something that hasn't worked for the past 6,000 years isn't going to work now. And personally I'm ready for some change. Analyze your surroundings!! THINGS GET WORSE EVERY DAY!!! WHY? BECAUSE OF NARROW-MINDED LEADERS WITH NARROW-MINDED, HYPNOTIZED FOLLOWERS LIKE MANY OF THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE POSTED HERE!!! Now, ask yourself: Will I follow blindly? Will I, even as I see this ever corrupted, decaying world, choose to accept and aid the self-destruction of my friends, my family, my country and myself? Or will I choose to stand up? To rise above the rest, to stand against this self-imposed sickness, this perpetual annihalation? If you TRULY care about your nephew; if you truly care ABOUT YOUR COUNTRY, you will not let it destroy itself...





Next time, think before you speak.

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