How ARE blacks treated in Colombia (Cartagena to be exact)

Philly says on Oct 30, 2008, 09:47:

I would say the majority of Cartagena is Black, so there should not be any problems. They will try to take advantage of you just like everyone else. Black people from Colombia do not quite have the brotherhood that the United States has, but they are starting to learn these things. Do not sweat it, you will have a nice time. Just remember these few words"NO GRACIAS" and you will be fine.

1 funny, 0 helpful.

cdxxfriend says on Oct 30, 2008, 09:49:

Thanks for the encouraging words.

When I was in bogota they told me that most of the darker colored people were in Cartagena.
So I just had to go see for myself :-)

0 funny, 1 helpful.

Sam Salmon says on Oct 30, 2008, 09:49:

The more money you appear to have the whiter you'll appear to be and the better you'll be treated-up to a point anyway.

' a la orden!'

0 funny, 2 helpful.

PBHjon says on Oct 30, 2008, 09:51:

I have been all over Colombia, including the coast. From what black colombians and white colombians tell me, there is an unspoken racism towards black people all over the country. However, if i was to take an educated guess, the racism will be at its weakest in Cartagena, because there is a huge black population and a huge ethnically mixed population, so the white people should be a lot more chilled about a black foreigner travelling in their town. I suspect that upscale clubs will once again be hit or miss, letting you in or perhaps denying you entrance.

A colombian from the coast will probably be able to give a more detailed snapshot of the situation, and tell me whether my view is right or totally wrong.

I have my own prejudices, I think that the street vendors and beach vendors, regardless of their race are annoying parasites who deserve to get punched in their netherregions.

1 funny, 0 helpful.

Chriscan says on Oct 30, 2008, 10:02:

If segregation is any measure, Cartagena is racist. It seems that people of the same race tend to live in the same area.

I find that here in Santa Marta, people are much more integrated. This could be more of a reflection of history than how people feel today.

In general, I find Colombia less racist than most countries including the states. People in Colombia tend to discriminate more on economic status. Though most of the "elite" are white, this could be more of a reflection of history than current attitudes.

************* WARNING ************* my words often come from my ass. www.independentbanff.com

1 funny, 1 helpful.

jomilena says on Oct 30, 2008, 10:03:

I have black friends that live in Ctg. They are working on the revolution as we speak. If you are interested, I can give you their number.

te amo

1 funny, 0 helpful.

elmodefoque says on Oct 30, 2008, 10:04:

COLOMBIAN BLACKS??
IN TWO WORDS: LIKE CHIT

I'll get there, when I get there!

0 funny, 1 helpful.

elmodefoque says on Oct 30, 2008, 10:05:

AMERICAN BLACKS? OK
YOU GOT GREEEN , COME DOWN

I'll get there, when I get there!

1 funny, 0 helpful.

jdixon150 says on Oct 30, 2008, 10:06:

I have been in Cartagena for the last 3 month, I agree with the comments above except 'I suspect that upscale clubs will once again be hit or miss'.I dont think it will be an issue in Cartagena at all. They will be more interested in your GRINGO wallet than the color of your skin. But thats just the opinion of a pearly white boy from Florida,.

"Life is not a dress rehearsal" Rose Tremain..

1 funny, 0 helpful.

elmodefoque says on Oct 30, 2008, 10:09:

I;M INJUN AND NOT BEEN ALLOWED IN MR BABILLA IN CARTAGENA 3 OUTTA 5 TIMES

I'll get there, when I get there!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Philly says on Oct 30, 2008, 10:11:

Elmo please, expand your thoughts more about Colombian Blacks? I just read your post about Obama, which I enjoyed very much, but now I am confused about what you are saying about AfroColombians.

1 funny, 0 helpful.

elmodefoque says on Oct 30, 2008, 10:13:

MAYBE I WAS NOT ALLOWED IN MR BABILLA FOR BEING TOO FOKIN OLD JAJAJA

I'll get there, when I get there!

0 funny, 1 helpful.

jdixon150 says on Oct 30, 2008, 10:13:

Do we any upscale clubs in Cartagena?????

"Life is not a dress rehearsal" Rose Tremain..

0 funny, 0 helpful.

elmodefoque says on Oct 30, 2008, 10:15:

I GOT TWO STRIKES AGAINST ME IN COLOMBIA
TOO DAMN INJUN AND TOO DAMN OLD

I'll get there, when I get there!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

elmodefoque says on Oct 30, 2008, 10:17:

is bad being black in colombia but you know what's worst? being injun.

I'll get there, when I get there!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

jomilena says on Oct 30, 2008, 10:17:

I like your hobbies Elmo. You should be ashamed of yourself, old man like yourself carrying on like that.

te amo

1 funny, 0 helpful.

Philly says on Oct 30, 2008, 10:21:

That is funny, my wife insist there isn´t racism in Colombia, but I see it every day. I just laugh in her face because she is racist and she does not even know it. I am African-American and she insist that I am not like Colombians, but then again I tell her that we are all brothers. it is not the color of your skin, I am light skin, being black is a way of life.

1 funny, 0 helpful.

Mononoke28 says on Oct 30, 2008, 10:23:

Oh yeah, they never see it but they are racists to the bones. Even if you see a caramel colored person with an afro and you say he's black, he'll be all over you saying "oh no! I'm NOT black!". Dude, you're black, be proud of it.

Diana

0 funny, 0 helpful.

elmodefoque says on Oct 30, 2008, 10:25:

thanks jomelina, i like your blouse a LOT

I'll get there, when I get there!

1 funny, 0 helpful.

Mononoke28 says on Oct 30, 2008, 10:25:

She's wearing a blouse? =O

Diana

1 funny, 0 helpful.

sylvester says on Oct 30, 2008, 10:26:

CDXXFRIEND,

No need to be overly concerned about how you will be received in CTG. I am black and have made several trips to CTG. Only issue I ever encounted was being refused entry into MR BABILLA. I went to several other clubs without issue.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Paisa/Calena/Luver says on Oct 30, 2008, 10:27:

CDXX, it really depends on what you are looking for? P4P? Regular girls? Much much more racial tolerant on the coast than in the mainland. BUT as a whole Colombia is a very racist country. Some people here will attempt to sugar coat it the best they can in a vain attempt to state their case that Colombia has "progressed" so far. But I have seen racism time and time again with my own eyes and ears. I have seen many blacks denied entrance in Parque lleras in Medellin and you yourself have experienced it in Bogota. All in all though I think you will have a ball in CTG.

I love Laura Acuna & Jessica Cediel! lol

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Mononoke28 says on Oct 30, 2008, 10:28:

I saw something on it on Caracol a couple of weeks ago, maybe it was last week. But a group of law students from some college were suing a whole bunch of club owners because of racism. They asked a few black people to try to get into some clubs in Bogotá and they were all denied entrance, I think they filmed it as well if I'm not mistaken and it got a lot of attention.

Diana

0 funny, 0 helpful.

elmodefoque says on Oct 30, 2008, 10:30:

CUS I'M TOO DAMN INJUN AND TOO DAMN IN OLD I'VE DECIDED TO BECOME
BI SEXUAL IN COLOMBIA

I'll get there, when I get there!

1 funny, 0 helpful.

Philly says on Oct 30, 2008, 10:31:

very good comments. I am glad to see we are on the ssame page. RACISM EXIST IN COLOMBIA. PUNTO

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Mononoke28 says on Oct 30, 2008, 10:32:

It sure does.

Diana

0 funny, 0 helpful.

pedro (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 30, 2008, 10:33:

nueva york bombero says on Oct 30, 2008, 10:57:

Groups of guys without girls aren't welcome at any clubs, except gay bars!!!
Here in NY and Medellin I have been denied entry due to too many cocks!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

cdxxfriend says on Oct 30, 2008, 11:00:

paisa philly jomelina, and ALL

Your posts have been very helpful.

I was actually denied entrance in one club in Bogota. But I didnt mention it here because I wasn't sure if it was because of my skin color, or just the fact that I was american.

Sylvester,

My real name is Sylvester too...LOL

0 funny, 0 helpful.

cdxxfriend says on Oct 30, 2008, 11:03:

Same way in Atlanta.

Groups of guys with no girls = no go

Unless you got that swag and that gift of gab like me

0 funny, 0 helpful.

nueva york bombero says on Oct 30, 2008, 11:14:

I don't care what kind of swag or gifts you got....you show up to clubs in NY or some in Medellin (Oz in Lleras) with a bunch of dudes, you're being denied.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

cdxxfriend says on Oct 30, 2008, 11:22:

Nah buddy....

I got that sick swagger. Nothing like you've seen before.
Maybe it doesnt work in Medellin but I can get things crackin anywhere in my country with the gift of gab homie :-)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

tomtom33 (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 30, 2008, 12:11:

yoyoma says on Oct 30, 2008, 12:21:

Yeah I find Bogota very racist. But they deny it up and down. When you confront them with the facts: ie there are NO professional blacks here, they claim blacks smell funny, and they drop the N word likes it's nothing; they just shrug their shoulders. Then I like to drop the bomb and ask them how they would feel if their sister married a black guy, you should see their reaction.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Mononoke28 says on Oct 30, 2008, 12:50:

yoyoma says on Oct 30, 2008, 12:21 (today)
ask them how they would feel if their sister married a black guy, you should see their reaction.
--------------------------------------------------
Oh yeah, that's a big one. According to them you should never, ever get involved with a "negro" which is insane.

Diana

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Pappassito (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 30, 2008, 13:53:

lampltr says on Oct 30, 2008, 14:42:

Chriscan...right on the money brother!! I see the same in my region of Risaralda and thank god...For people to bring up the topic as in the states they may as well stay there and don't bother buying a plane ticket. No desire to have them here interjecting their beliefs.

Don't stop Elmo, keep it flowing jeje!!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Simon says on Oct 30, 2008, 16:35:

"How ARE blacks treated in Colombia (Cartagena to be exact)"

They're treated much better than they are in Alabama, Kentucky, Kansas, Iowa, Idaho, etc.


"and they drop the N word likes it's nothing;"

That despicable doesn't exist in Spanish, fortunately!


I think race in Colombia is a less salient issue than it is in the US. You never see Colombian whites and blacks getting in brawls in schools or Colombians burning crosses in front of black people's houses! This is the truth, even if it pisses off some of the self-hating pseudo-Colombians on this board.

Viva Colombia!!!

"DON'T FOK WITH COLOMBIA!!"-----Simon

0 funny, 1 helpful.

Saltador says on Oct 30, 2008, 17:15:

agree with elmo and sylvester, you won't be getting in to Mr. Babillas. But that's no great loss...
Racism is still going strong all over South America.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Simon says on Oct 30, 2008, 17:43:

And North America too.

"DON'T FOK WITH COLOMBIA!!"-----Simon

0 funny, 0 helpful.

L_pie_sah says on Oct 30, 2008, 18:18:

i dont remeber hearing about racism till i came to the U.S at the age of 12. it was never an issue in Medellin. or I guess i never thought about it..

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Cali2005 says on Oct 30, 2008, 20:33:

the advantage of being a black foreigner is that you can blend into the crowd pretty well. if you dont speak with a foreigners acent its even better. Just always keep a photo copy of your passport on in the case you get requested by the cops for your ID. Once they figure out your a foreigner they are much nicer. If your white foreigner your more likely to stick out walking down the street in colombia. The cops love to check IDs at random road stops, or if your walking down the street. That is completely normal. They dont need a reason.

Not being a white foreigner is definately safer in colombia. for what its worth.

Medellin Apartments and Tours http://www.MedellinApartments.INFO

0 funny, 1 helpful.

PBHjon says on Oct 30, 2008, 22:17:

looking like a gringo has big advantages in colombia when it comes to meeting women (or men) and big disadvantages when it comes to safety because as you mentioned, you stand out more. i went to the Feria de Los Flores with a group of Dutch girls who were staying at my hostal, and my oh my, the pickpockets swarmed over to them like crazy. Almost all of the girls got robbed. Perhaps due to my ambiguous ethnicity, nothing happened to me at all.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

tomtom33 (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 31, 2008, 05:13:

manINred says on Oct 31, 2008, 05:41:

I agree tomtom. While in certain parts of the US racism may be comparable to much of Colombia, from my experience, racism in Colombia is much more widespread and rampant than in the US.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

manINred says on Oct 31, 2008, 05:45:

Cdxxfriend, i have a lot of black friends in Colombia. I think they are generally happy, but know their social limitations, which is friggin sad to me.

As an american, i think you'd generally be treated with respect though, you shouldn't have to worry too much, but be on the look out for bigotry! Along much of the coast (and even in the interior), you shouldn't have to worry, in fact as a yank, you'll have an awesome time i'll bet. It's not like you're poor. Being poor makes a big difference.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Darloup (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 31, 2008, 09:14:

Philly says on Oct 31, 2008, 09:30:

Darloup says"one can take comfort in the fact that, at least as far as sexual racism is concerned, we have a lot to learn from Colombia."
Please tell me you are kidding. Professional women are pratically non- existent here. Men control everything in Colombia.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Darloup (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 31, 2008, 10:19:

Tolú says on Oct 31, 2008, 10:35:

Of course Colombia is racist. Why do you think you see 10000000 children named "Blanca" (wishful thinking?) but you'll only ever hear "negro" or "negrito" used in a mock tone, never as a compliment?

God love them, but my Colombian-born grandparents are so racist that they won't even display the photos of my half "morenito" cousin, lest the neighbors and friends see and cause a scandal. As they say, "Ay, es lindo e inteligente, pues..." This is how they treat their flesh and blood, mmkay.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

machin1967 says on Oct 31, 2008, 10:58:

Colombia is very racist without a doubt. During some parties I went to, some of the folks there did not even introduce me to any of the black relatives of theirs. Even though they were super well dressed, nice people, very friendly. The almost acted like they were invisible or ashamed to tell me they were related to them. When I started to talk to them, the other people at the party began to whisper and in general had the look of horror on their face that I would be talking to them. I felt so sorry for the whole situation. That the lighter skinned people were so stupid, and the blacks just seemed to accept it. It was a sad sight.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Mononoke28 says on Oct 31, 2008, 10:58:

My dad was pretty racist as well and proud of it because back in the day, and still in some areas, is the right thing to do. Not hang out with black people, not get involved with them, not hiring them. The less tanned they are, the better.

Diana

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Darloup (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 31, 2008, 11:14:

Tolú says on Oct 31, 2008, 11:19:

Darloup,
The reason Colombia "achieved" mestizaje is simple and requires a cursory knowledge of Colombia's history. The country was colonized by Spanish men. Very few Spanish women came, so the conquerors took Indigenous and African brides. Genetic tests (Y-chromosome and Mitochondrial DNA) reveal that around 80% of Colombians are descended from white male (Spanish) ancestors, and around 80% of Colombians are descended from Indigenous or African female ancestors. Very few Colombians have an Indian or African male ancestor, and very few have European female ancestor.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Darloup (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 31, 2008, 11:35:

Tolú says on Oct 31, 2008, 11:37:

Secondly, you shouldn't confuse mestizaje for what we in the modern world would consider a "non racist" or "open" or "tolerant" view. The ideology of mestizaje might better be called "whitening" (blanqueamiento). People thought, in earlier periods of the Republic, that the nation could be "improved" through a program of "whitening" in which Indigenous and African elements would be "bred out" and everyone would become "honorary whites."

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Darloup (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 31, 2008, 11:46:

Tolú says on Oct 31, 2008, 12:02:

1) You can easily be racist and marry someone of another race. It's very common.

2) That is logically true, of course. But in terms of ideology, whiteness was always coveted and seen as an ideal. Europe was the font of civilization, science, democracy, etc. It's only very recently in history that we value Africanness or Indigenousness in ANY way, and that is as true for Colombia in the Republican period as it was for the USA and Europe. The 1991 Constitution improved things quite a bit, btw.

3) You do have a point here. It is true that in the past 40-odd years it is more acceptable for whites, usually middle class and urban, to marry lighter-skinned mestizos. But, again, it is not value-neutral. Marrying a very dark skinned person would still be cause for shame and gossiping. And of course, many people in the uppermost strata would sooner marry their cousins or sisters, so long as they're white...

0 funny, 0 helpful.

PBHjon says on Oct 31, 2008, 13:17:

white people are boring looking. give me a cinnamon-skinned latin woman any day of the week!! Who's with me?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Darloup (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 31, 2008, 13:38:

yoyoma says on Oct 31, 2008, 13:39:

"and they drop the N word likes it's nothing;"

"That despicable doesn't exist in Spanish, fortunately!"

So what are you saying, that they don't say the English pejorative for Black people or that it is OK that they do because it doesn't exist in Spanish??? Either way, you are simply wrong.

The sad fact in Bogota is the whiter the better. You can deny it, you can claim that intermarriage exists but you are delusional.

Why do you think the further south you go in Bogota the darker the people, you think they get more sun down there?

Sure you can compare the KKK in the USA, a tiny minority of idiotic fanatics, to the overwhelming consensus that Black People are inferior in Colombia, but you can also compare apples and oranges.

Here is an idea, when you are in the States at a party try telling everyone that you think Blacks smell funny, if they don't tell you to shut up and leave, you should move out of the trailer park and then try the same thing in Colombia.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Darloup (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 31, 2008, 13:45:

Darloup (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 31, 2008, 13:55:

Tolú says on Oct 31, 2008, 14:08:

////Thanks Tolú, that's useful insight although I don't really understand your first point: "You can easily be racist and marry someone of another race." - seems a bit of a contradiction to me. Can you develop your point?////

---It's one of life's paradoxes. Just because you marry or even love someone of a different race doesn't preclude you from holding racist beliefs, such as that their race is inferior or stupid or lazy. It's really ironic, but I've seen it with my own eyes. Usually they'll say, "But I can't be racist! Look at my wife/husband."

/////BTW, are there regions in Colombia where the "white ideal" is more prevalent?////

---hmm. I don't know. Sadly, I think it's pretty much the same throughout the Americas.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

TheReceivingEnd says on Oct 31, 2008, 16:09:

"Tolú says on Oct 31, 2008, 10:35 (today): flag
Of course Colombia is racist. Why do you think you see 10000000 children named "Blanca" (wishful thinking?) but you'll only ever hear "negro" or "negrito" used in a mock tone, never as a compliment?

God love them, but my Colombian-born grandparents are so racist that they won't even display the photos of my half "morenito" cousin, lest the neighbors and friends see and cause a scandal. As they say, "Ay, es lindo e inteligente, pues..." This is how they treat their flesh and blood, mmkay."

"Mononoke28 says on Oct 31, 2008, 10:58 (today): flag
My dad was pretty racist as well and proud of it because back in the day, and still in some areas, is the right thing to do. Not hang out with black people, not get involved with them, not hiring them. The less tanned they are, the better.
Diana"

You are both fools, in regards to the country as a whole being racist, that is most definitely not true. I went on a Colombian tour on a bus traveling to every major city with my grandmother to get to know my country, and let me tell you something, I don't recall people from every city I went to being racist to any extent. I traveled to Cartagena,Cali,Santa Marta,Barranquilla,Medellin,(starting out in Bogota) and I don't even remember where else. It's true that your typical people from "el barrio" are going to be racist to some extent, but in most cases where some Afro-Colombians are there if they are the minority people grow to love them as "el negrito" in a very friendly way.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

TheReceivingEnd says on Oct 31, 2008, 16:17:

"yoyoma says on Oct 31, 2008, 13:39 (today): flag
"and they drop the N word likes it's nothing;"

"That despicable doesn't exist in Spanish, fortunately!"

So what are you saying, that they don't say the English pejorative for Black people or that it is OK that they do because it doesn't exist in Spanish??? Either way, you are simply wrong.

The sad fact in Bogota is the whiter the better. You can deny it, you can claim that intermarriage exists but you are delusional.

Why do you think the further south you go in Bogota the darker the people, you think they get more sun down there?

Sure you can compare the KKK in the USA, a tiny minority of idiotic fanatics, to the overwhelming consensus that Black People are inferior in Colombia, but you can also compare apples and oranges.

Here is an idea, when you are in the States at a party try telling everyone that you think Blacks smell funny, if they don't tell you to shut up and leave, you should move out of the trailer park and then try the same thing in Colombia."

Why do you think the further south you go in Bogota the darker the people, you think they get more sun down there?

In regards to that comment, the reason the further south you go and the people get darker is simply because of the fact that they are dirty, and I don't mean it to offend them. I was born in Cali and lived in Bogota until I was 8. My father lived in the south and he would take me to visit him and sleep over, and I saw all the estrato 1 people with some blacks here and there. Those people are "vagabundos" if you know what I mean and don't have resources to shower and keep themselves clean. If you tried to say that just because they are black they are treated like shit and have to live in poor neighborhoods then you're wrong. Theres a greater ratio of whites to blacks that live in those neighborhoods, and dont tell me im wrong because I've seen it with my own eyes.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Chriscan says on Oct 31, 2008, 16:49:

I work with a Canadian guy who has a Japanese wife and he is very racist (insecure). The paradox works because I think he beats her. (disgustingly funny)

************* WARNING ************* my words often come from my ass. www.independentbanff.com

0 funny, 0 helpful.

manINred says on Oct 31, 2008, 22:41:

"I don't wish to start on semantics, but there is a huge difference between "racism" and "discrimination"."

Wrong. Racism is defined as discrimination against another race. In the sense that you are talking about, you can discriminate another race and not be racist. That is, by definition, incorrect.

""You can easily be racist and marry someone of another race.""

Correct. If a white man marry a black woman but hates all arabs because of their race, he is still racist, he just doesn't necessarily discriminate against blacks.

Racism is very rampant in Colombia, not only against blacks/mulattos, but against natives too, and to a certain extent against asians, however this is hard to substantiate since there are not many asians, but i have seen this racism manifest itself as well.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

sylvester says on Nov 1, 2008, 04:32:

CDXXFRIEND,

The bottom line is that your experience in CTG should be more positive than negative. Sure racism/discrimination exists, but you are NOT likely to receive anything remotely similar to a KKK reception.

You mentioned Atlanta. I have driven from Toronto Canada to Atlanta a few times. Tennessee has a much more overt racist vibe than I ever experienced anywhere Colombia. Not even close. Keep in mind I only exited the I-75 for gas in Tennessee. Couldnt get out of there fast enough.

Are you military ? I think you are. Dont stress the racism thing, just go and enjoy yourself. I would recommend renting an apartment as opposed to staying in a hotel. If you need help with that, I can put you in contact with my agent in CTG.

By the way, is Magic City still open in Hotlanta ?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

turnmeon (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 1, 2008, 08:15:

turnmeon (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 1, 2008, 08:15:

turnmeon (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 1, 2008, 08:23:

turnmeon (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 1, 2008, 08:24:

turnmeon (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 1, 2008, 08:26:

turnmeon (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 1, 2008, 08:30:

turnmeon (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 1, 2008, 08:35:

turnmeon (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 1, 2008, 08:37: