Homeless in Colombia vs. Homeless in the US

morphus says on Nov 28, 2006, 17:21:

As far as I know the government does help homeless people in Colombia if they go into some kind of program but its a one shot deal. If you screw up, they don't give you a second chance. I know a guy that has nieces and nephews that were abandoned by their father. The mother died and they did'nt have a place to live. The government gave them around $5000US to buy a house. The older kids work and take car of the younger ones.

In the U.S. anybody that is normal can get out of being homeless in less than a couple of months on their own. If you are a druggie or have mental problems, then its a problem.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

miamimike says on Nov 28, 2006, 19:53:

I see A Lot Of Homeless US Military "Nam" Veterans Homeless here in Miami who live under and by the I-95 Interstate Bridge. Its not as easy as some here say for these Older Vets to get out of the Homeless cycle.I personally know several who get treatment here at the Miami VA Med Center. It is Simplistic at best to say they shouldn't be homeless and its easy to get of but until you are in their shoes please hold your fire,,,,And they served their country in war so if anyone deserves a second chance it is them,,,Anyone who thinks their is no Homeless in Miami(btw, miami is the poorest big city in the USA)needs to talk a walk about 9pm past NE 2nd Ave(between 7-12st) after dark,,,, Miami is far from one Big South Beach Fun in the Sun Town as some think, even south beach has a pretty sizeable population of homeless,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

njtea5 says on Nov 29, 2006, 10:17:

strobers I didn't say that every homeless person in the Us doesn't have a story, I was simply stating they have more chances to get it together and they still seem to being on the streets begging for money... I know their are crazy homeless out there but for these people have the abilitly to sit on the street and form a sentence to ask me for a cig or some change.. And as far as vets I look around here in San Francisco where i am currently staying and these guys are my age 25 so vet my ass I am sure that there are homeless vets out there but I know alot of vets that are living a great life (not an excuse).. I used to offer homeless people here things all the time then I just stopped... I have a homeless man a pair of shoes because I saw his shoes had some serious holes in them the next day see the same dude with the same ripped shoes and he was trying to sell the shoes I gave him... Dongringo you are not alone I agreed with everything you said in your post...

0 funny, 0 helpful.

athensugadawg says on Nov 29, 2006, 10:29:

SAN FRAN IS A MESS because the city decides to provide an incentive to be homeless. It's as if one of the primary means of entertainment in SF consists of watching bums urinate on walls, hey, no big deal...and let's not forget the primary root cause of homelessness, it's not "society's" fault, it is invariably the result of poor decision making skills. Rather than reading a book, it's much easier to sit back and be spoonfed pablum from the TV. Rather than making a budget and living within your means, let's load up the credit cards. Gotta get that new car every model year....so I have a difficult time relating to the homeless in the US as well....WITH the exception of the mentally ill, inclusive of many of our veterans that have truly been shafted. Just take a walk through any VA and it's easy to see what I mean.

Colombian homeless....yes, there are genuine individuals that are homeless due to powers beyond their control. This is especially true due to the hell of civil war. However, I totally refuse to support someones drinking or drug abuse....it certainly doesn't benefit the beggar to support their bad habit...

0 funny, 0 helpful.

njtea5 says on Nov 29, 2006, 10:48:

Athensugadawg AMEN!!!!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Mr. Hollywood says on Nov 29, 2006, 10:49:

Homeless vets Hell, I have a friend doing a documentary film about homeless vets from the CURRENT war, the one in Iraq, so it's totally conceivable to have 25-year-old homeless vets. There are, in fact, hundreds of them, which I find totally shameful.

The biggest difference I see between the US and Colombia in terms of homelessness is that you see it spread more widely in Colombia across age and gender. By that I mean you see lots of women and children on the street, too. In the US there are decent programs to help keep women and children off the streets (at night anyway) but if you're male, forget about it.

Strobers is absolutely right about the difficulties so many of these folks face and how it's not so cut and dry. Years, ago, during the last recession under President BUsh the 1st, I was living in a very wealthy city where I saw a large number of families pushed onto the streets by economic circumstances. The proverbial couple of missed mortgage payments and suddenly they were living in cars under the overpass. So it's not so simple.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Mr. Hollywood says on Nov 29, 2006, 11:43:

"no one to blame but themselves" I guess the larger question is whether it's desireable for society to have a bunch of people with "no one to blame but themselves" living on the streets, dying in the cold, not getting medical care, or racking up hundreds of thousands in emergency room visits because we didn't do anything pro-active to help them out.

In the end, no matter whose fault it is, we need to deal with the fall-out of homelessness. Personally, I'd rather do it before I get tuberculosis from some coughing homeless vet on the subway.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Gomezman5 says on Nov 29, 2006, 12:12:

There are very few things that disgust me more than the way our vets have been treated. But you know something? We (the US Govt) has always treated their vets that way. I am sure the story is just starting about all the people who gave up what they had here.....families, jobs, and whatever, to fight for their country, be called heroes while they are on the battlefield (or streets of Iraq) only return home and be forgotten about. I know that in Colombia, some of the best hospitals are the military ones. On the other hand, the Veterans Administration here has continued its pattern of hiring too few people to service their patients. I know people who have told me that although they have veterans benefits that entitles to use veterans hospitals, it would be used only as a last resort. It just irks me to no end that we call these guys heroes up front, and then treat them as sub standard humans after they have completed their service. Both parties are guilty of this.

As to the homeless, I am sure there are a lot of vets, and people with a myriad of disabilites. On the other hand, there are a lot of lazy people that take advantage of what the government gives them for doing NOTHING There is no better example of that here in the US than Section 8 housing. These people live in nice buildings, that are owned by private parties. A certain percentage of their building is leased to the governmet for them to place tenants into these units. The tenant's rent is determined by the amount of income and children they have. The result is that a person in one unit could be paying 50 dollars a month, and the tenant in the exact same unit next door could be paying 700 dollars. The formula and factors that determine who gets into these apartment has more to do with politics than need.

There should be a mechanism of helping those on the street that are truely in need of assistance so as to put them back on their feet to make them productive individuals, gainfully employed, and off the street. On the other hand, to those that are there because of their own laziness, I have no sympathy. If they prefer a life of drugs and booze, then the street is where they belong. You don't help people that do not want to help themselves.

The US is still one of the most giving countries I know. Colombia could not even come close to matching the social services and hand outs that the US has. To make such a comparison is idiotic. Hell, the country is on the brink of bankcruptcy as a result of fight a 50 year old civil war that is not even close to be resolved. To expect Colombia to even make an attempt to deal with all of the hungry and homeless that exists there, would bring the country to certain financial collapse.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

athensugadawg says on Nov 29, 2006, 16:48:

AND WHOSE FAULT IS IT THAT SOME LIVE... check to check...it certainly isn't mine, I can assure you of that. No, the U.S. is certainly no utopia, but again, we have choices here. Supersize with fries or salad, to have a child that I cannot support or to use birth control, to make an attempt at bettering myself through some semblance of an education or to stand around with my homies at the corner...and to me, that is the beauty of this country. Each of us are free to make conscientious choices about how we're going to face the day...but the odd thing is....a bad decision can easily be blamed on society rather than the individual.

AND DO NOT GET ME WRONG....I have made plenty of bad decisions in my life...especially lately, but hopefully these will be corrected (due to my efforts), but all in all, I am reasonably happy with the overall choices that I have made in my life...

Also, get over the dramatics and inferring that I (or anyone else) would supprt "gassing the homeless"...but to imply that the large majority of the homeless are not partially/fully responsible for their predicament is at the very best blindly naive.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

juancegomez says on Nov 29, 2006, 16:58:

... I wouldn't make such a comparison either, but even if the U.S. is probably a better place overall for more of its population, by far, being dirt poor there is still pretty horrible.

It's just that the number of dirt poor people is obviously smaller in the U.S. than in Colombia, because U.S. is a very different society with a better government etc., but their quality of life isn't magically superior or anything else, as far as extreme poverty is concerned.

G5:

"Hell, the country is on the brink of bankcruptcy as a result of fight a 50 year old civil war that is not even close to be resolved."

We're not exactly doing fine but that doesn't seem like it. Time will tell whether your prediction is right or not.

"To expect Colombia to even make an attempt to deal with all of the hungry and homeless that exists there, would bring the country to certain financial collapse."

That's also pretty debatable, as that's purely a hypothetical.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

miamimike says on Nov 29, 2006, 17:20:

Gomezman You Could NOT be more Correct On The VA Medical System As a Vietnam Era Vet who has used the system since 1969(close to 37 years)I was discharged out of the Military in 1969 and who has used the VA System since that year, I have seen a lot of changes to the system. My Brother In Law, a Korean War War Combat Vet echoes the same thought on the state of current affairs at the VA he uses in Erie,Pa(last 45 years). I was also on the Medical Staff at the Miami VA Hospital up until 5 years so I saw the actual shortcomings from a unique viewpoint(employee and a user of the system as a veteran)and it hasn't changed for the better. In the 70s-80s I saw improvements(brought by both political parties) but since the Bush Era, I can tell you its woefully underfunded. 3 years ago, Bush attempted to recategorize thousands of Veterans right out of the system. Go and serve then get turned away, not a nice way to treat our Wonderful Veterans. Nursing staff is severely understaffed. Many people claim its not but then they never get past the First floor out patient clinics and the Pharmacy so of course the 1st floor always is "Spit and Polish" for Visitors. If you really want to see Reality at a VA Hospital, try Volunteering or actually working on staff at a VA if you want to see the True Story. Last year Bush underfunded the VA by over 2 Billion Dollars and they had to catch up. Still the Funding was not sufficient as it did not account for Inflation. It also did NOT account for the Huge Number of Young Iraqi Vets who will require Care for the rest of their lives.Funding NOT even close for this dilemma! This is going to be an EXPENSIVE Ordeal and we have to PAY for it. And this is a viewpoint from a Vet who has used the system for close to 40 years and who was also on staff for several years at a large Inner city VA. You want to see how things really transpire at the VA, make an unannounced visit to a VA Nursing Home Floor around 5-6 pm or 8-10 am and you will have a clear picture of the staffing shortcomings,,,

On VA Current staffing shortcomings, take a walk by any Large Inner City VA Personnel office in the USA and look at the large number of Medical Vacancies unfilled,,,There is a Reason they are unfilled,,,,Its not because the Staff is Overpaid and underworked,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

rocinante says on Nov 29, 2006, 17:58:

Homeless in Colombia vs. Homeless in the US Just checked with Vegas.

US Homeless -$220
Colombia Homeless +$180

Over 6 rounds +100
Under 6 rounds -$120

Anyone know if this is on Pay Per View or what?

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Gomezman5 says on Nov 29, 2006, 19:16:

Thanks Mike.... Let me start by saying when DonGringo says: "I'm Dead wrong" I really don't give the guy much credence, because he has not ever agreed with anything I have said.....so, who is he kidding. The one thing that I am thankfull for is that this is one area where I have a broader understanding than he does, and I am more lucky that you hit this thread, because you have more knowledge about this than Dongringo and I together.

Allow me to continue for Dongringo's sake. My ex girlfriend, a Colombian, obtained a work visa to come here as a physical therapist. The VA here in Chicago had decided not to pay US educated PTs and instead decided to hire services on contract foreign educated PTs. These people (ex girlfriend included) barely understood English, and had educations in Colombia that at best, were equivalant to what an assistant PT had here in the states. The average American educated has a pass rate on the national board of about %90 on the first try. Latinas from Colombia had a first time pass rate of below 40%. Many never pass. And most have to take the test several times before they do. Since all of my ex's friends were PTs from Colombia,,,,,the number exceeded 20, I can tell you that only 3 of these girls had passed the test the first time. Some were working on their 7 and 8th tries. That says something huh? These girls all worked for place that American educated girls would not. Nursing homes, Public hospital with mostly medicaid patients, and.....you guessed it.......VA hospitals...helllllloooooo???

OK, now, she worked at a hosptial known as West Side VA hopspital. This was an old dilapidated poorly maintained hospital that was rumored to be closing for 5 years. She said vet....seriously wounded ones, missing limbs, could not walk well, would come to her for treatment. On the first day, she was told by her supervisor, that she was being schedule 4 patients at a time for a 45 minute block session. She asked, how was she to treat 4 at a time. Response from the supervisor was: "Do your best." She called me from work that day and said, "Papi, your country....a great country like this, should be ashamed of itself for putting vets in a garbage can like this, and not providing adequate service for the people who fought for your country." I had no answer.....and to be honest, I felt embarassed. Things deteriorated to the point she had to quit. Shortly after she quit, after several attempts by local congressmen to keep the hosptial open, West Side VA closed. At that point, Vets had to choose between Lake Shore VA, which was in about the same condition. The other option was Hynes hosptial isn a suburb outside of Chicago. Hynes hosptial.....oh yea....great place. A quick check of the local clerk's of the courts, will show just how often Hynes is a defendant in personal injury suits. The numbers are staggering. Why? Because much of the alleged malpractice is for gross negligence.....not just run of the mill mistakes that result in injury. Gross negligecne.....what is an example in an nutshell? Failure to administer medication as prescribed....over medicating.....patient falling out of bed.....infections that had gone untreated...........misplacing patients and failure to treat.....leaving surgery utensils during surgical or quasi surgical procedures.....on and on and on. Yea...the VA....great place

oh yes.....yes yes yes
In another forum for parrots that I participate in, I complemented a woman (she was pretty) when I saw her picture. I just cut and past her post about the VA.....(just last weeks folks)

"I just looked at the picture I have in my profile. That picture was taken after I was in the Corps, but before I got sick. I have an intestinal problem that is even throwing my hormones off and so I'm losing hair and gaining weight and I'm so physically exhausted that getting out to exercise is near impossible. The VA has been taking blood and doing tests on me for two years now. Part of their problem is that it takes forever to get in to see the right people. Then when you finally get in to see them they say, "Yes, you're in the right place. We can see that you do indeed need to have such and such tests done. We can do these tests here to see if we can find out what's wrong with you. Now here, let's schedule those tests for........" And it's always like three more months before I can see them again. I hate appointments just to make appointments. I'm hoping to have a diagnosis by the end of December. I'd be rather embarrassed to post a picture at the moment...maybe if I put a hat on lol."

Yep, the above sounds like another ringing endorsement of the VA doesn't it?

Let me close by saying this..I don't know of one person that is a vet and who has insurance from their employer and can therefore go to mcuh better university affiliated private hospitals, that would ever consider going to a VA facility for medical care......not one. In fact , I'll go a step further. Most vets that I know who have free access to veterans care, if they don't have employer based insurance provided to them, they opt to spend the 7 or 8 thousand a year for private indemnity health insurance as opposed to risking their lives with the free insurance the veterans administration provides

DonGringo......you can tell your nonsense, but you're not going to make me or anyone else I know believe that the VA is the be all that end all. It is the place of last resort and that's about it.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

athensugadawg says on Nov 29, 2006, 19:37:

LIMBAUGH??? GIMME A BREAK!!! OH...I get your logic now....and you forgot the code word "neocon" while you were at it. And although I am of German ancestry, I don't goosestep with "Der Leader". Again, you should really concentrate on controlling your flair for the dramatic...you truly have no idea of my political beliefs and to imply that I sing the "Horst Wessel Lied" in the shower is downright silly.

Again, bad choices at work here...I take it that you give the large majority of your income to any homeless person that comes up to you and asks for a buck. If you do not, then you are a hypocrite of the highest order. How many homeless people have you invited into your home tonight to sleep on your couch? And tell me, what is YOUR solution to this problem? It seems as if you have it ALL figured out. And if your answer is higher taxes, then hey, walk the walk and pay more while you're at it...I'll bet you think that BIG government is the answer to all of our ills, right?

Everyone has a story...again, for the large majority of the homeless it usually includes a litany of bad excuses consisting of addiction to drugs, gambling, or loading up the credit cards to the max and then losing it all. But then again, we all know that the problems of the poor are ALWAYS due to those that create the large majority of jobs in the first place...the "filthy" rich...

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Cerealkiller says on Nov 29, 2006, 20:03:

"And although I am of German ancestry, I don't goosestep with "Der Leader".

This is the silliest thing Ive read today. You cant just get any more Limbaugh-ish than that...please go back to your Fox news and stop making stupid assumptions.

In regards to the homeless situation, extreme poverty has to be horrible here, in the States or in Beijing, badmouthing homeless people is just ignorant. The fact that they dont have enough resources to satisfy their material needs doesnt mean they are less than any of us or contribute less to any society.
I for one NEVER give homeless people any money, thats degrading, thats not real help...thats just wrong. People who give 20 pence in order to get them off their faces should be penalized for being so ignorant...Im just pissed off...its beyond ridiculous that some of you people feel absolutely no sympathy for homeless people, and think Colombian homeless people "deserve" more than American homeless people perhaps based on the fact that it just looks more exotic here than there...Get a freaking grip!

PS: And to whoever said something about the "colombian civil war" get it right, there is no civil war in colombia. Civil war is something else.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

0 funny, 0 helpful.

miamimike says on Nov 29, 2006, 21:08:

Gomezman, On The VA Employees at least in Miami and at Baypines VA Med Ctr in ST Petersburg, Florida, its not that employees don't want to a good job, its simply they don't have the Human resources due to funding shortfalls. I wish I had a dime for every time someone from a family complained about why someone hasn't answered call lights, dispensed Meds on time, bathed their Father ect. Simple truth is, there is not sufficient staffing. In the Miami VA, yes they have a Langauge Barrier for sure and it impedes efficient safe Patient Care and actually places some in danger. I could write a book on that subject! At Another Federal Insitution in Miami, I know of UNlicensed Medical Staff prescribing Medications-Crazy. On the Medical Testing, I have witnessed many Nurses from PR(isla)who were unable to pass the Florida Boards even after taking them 3-5 times. Same thing for MDs from Cuba-some here sat for the Florida Physician Test(much easier then the USME) and like out of 20 applicants sitting for the test, maybe 4 passed. They claim its a langauge barrier but I see it as lacking in their Nursing Curriculm where they are from. Many Medical and Nursing Procedures are Generic, that is, the same in any langauge so I don't buy the langauge barrier excuse. Many times I witnessed Foreign Nurses unable to operate our Ventilators, IV Pumps, Feeding Pumps, Cardiac Telemetry Monitors ect. 6 months ago they uncovered a Massive NCLEX(nursing exam)Testing Scam in Manilla, the Phillippines. Someone acquiered a copy of this Exam and passed it around and the scam was detected. The result; all the tests were tossed and the test takers have to retest HERE IN THE USA. They were testing before in Manilla so no surprise on the scam. I could go on and on, but you are correct on the Failure rate-seen it many many times in Miami. It amazes why some feel it is not necessary to have a technical command of English when working in the Healthcare field with a Patient's life in your hands and ability to communicate with them determines if they live or die in some cases.

BTW, I give to street people but not money. If they ask me something outside of the 7/11 store I go to, I go back inside and buy them something to eat.I won't give them money they use for Smokes, Beer, wine ect. If they need clothing and a place to sleep, we have the Salvation Army and Camillus House here in Miami to take care of those needs.

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

lpdiver says on Nov 29, 2006, 22:10:

The problem with... giving anyone something is they are seldom satisfied for very long.

t

"cook some rice!"

0 funny, 0 helpful.

cam0940 says on Nov 29, 2006, 22:40:

Strobers I am a conservative in pretty much every sense of the word. For that reason, I cringed a bit when your argument became political with Dawg. I don't think you can draw the line distinctly down party lines, because I happen to agree with you on the multiple causes of homelessness.

Over the last five years alone (through no fault of our President--we can debate that another time), there have obviously been sea changes in the makeup of the job market. Guys that previously felt secure in their employment found themselves out of work or underemployed. When you get laid off at 40+ years of age, it can be very difficult to find another job that pays a similar salary. Say you're 45 years old and you're making $100,000 per year. If, God forbid, you lost that, you're gonna be like Jim Carey in Fun With Dick And Jane... standing in a line with 500 other guys just like you who are all competing for a finite number of positions that will provide comparable substitue income. But everyone can't have one... so some will end up doing shit like selling movie tickets at AMC theatres and supplementing that income by drawing down their retirement accounts... Some will have too much pride for that and take equity out of their homes... Some will sell off stocks... but in the end, most guys in that category will only have at best 12 months worth of expenses covered... and I'm talking about the top 5% of the country. The average American can't go 3 months without a check. So to say that "choices" is the cause of homelessness is a little naive.

I... unfortunately... had an experience maybe 10 years ago where I switched firms and took a 50% pay cut for the first year... extremely difficult to make changes to my lifestyle. I didn't lose my home, but clearly see how easily it could happen to someone. Especially if that person had a family to support and he/she had little time to prepare for the adjustment. I CHOSE to make the switch and temporary setback as a means to earn greater income in the future.

Generally, spending behavior is based on expected earnings. If you expect to have a job next week, it's OK to take the wife out to dinner Friday night. If you don't believe you're getting a paycheck, you might not. The same goes for buying that house, buying a car, sending the kids to private school... you do it because you've been working at XYZ company for 15 years and you're a middle manager earning $100k and you just don't anticipate that pink slip coming... That's how you get caught with fixed expenses that you can't afford after the bomb drops.

It's naive to miss that reality. It's naive to miss the reality that many schools in urban areas are utterly failing to prepare students for even junior college, much less university education. Thousands of public schools are passing students who just don't have the skills to thrive in this type of economy. That's why you have grown people--I mean in their 20s--selling cell phones at Radio Shack for $9/hr and shit like that. Going absolutely nowhere. At $9/hr you can't pay for school and an apartment in LA at the same time. You can't save for a car, you can't make a car payment. So this is where we get to those "choices" that Dawg was talking about. These people try to make choices (self preservation being a human instinct) to improve their lot in life, but with such a small margin for error, it could easily all fall apart. You're working for $9/hr at Radio Shack after high school, and even something so small as a $100 speeding ticket could fuck you up. You don't pay it on time because money's tight...the penalty goes up... they suspend your license until you pay... you get stopped again--this time with a suspended license... now you're $1000 in the hole... now it's fucking with your tuition and books...

I paid USC $27,000 a year with no help from my parents. It was very very hard to do. I've lived this... I've had the suspended license... I've had the Ramen noodles... I've done it all. I've had my parents help me with rent on more than one occasion back in the day. But if they hadn't? If one of those months I wasn't able to pull the rabbit out of the hat? It's easy to see how someone who doesn't do drugs, doesn't have a drinking problem and isn't mentally ill could become homeless.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

miamimike says on Nov 29, 2006, 23:00:

Don't forget that we have 47,000,000 Americans With NO Health Insurance and this figure grows each passing day. They are One Slip away on a Banana Peel from being pitched into financial disaster and Homelessness due to unexpected medical bills. Big problem here in the US as there is no safey net for these folks and more people daily losing their employer sponsered health Insurance as their companies close and relocate to China. A friend here in Miami in her Mid 40s(had no health insurance) suffered a Heart Attack last year and went to Kendall Regional Medical Center ER for Treatment-2 weeks later(hospitalization, ICU ect) she was discharged and has $46,000 Bill she must pay on monthly out of her house cleaning wages. Nice Future,eh? Note-its not that this person BTW, didn't want to purchase health Insurance-she was unable to at $700 monthly rates as a Single, Non Group Purchaser.

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

cowboysteve says on Nov 29, 2006, 23:33:

hey colombians tell me why if the good old USA is so f**k-up why over 1,000,000 of you rich boys cut and run from your home land in the last few years? don't you thank if you haven't been so quick to run you could have stade and made a different. next time you cut the USA down (as the milk and honey is dripping from your chin)we will do your fighting for you just point the way and the 173rd airborne will take up your slack. good luck.

YES IAM A GRINGO HAVE LIVE OFF AND ON IN COLOMBIA FOR EIGHT YEARS IAM LOOKING FOR SOMEONE THAT WOULD LIKE TO GO INTO BUS. SHIPING CARS FROM USA TO CALI THERE IS A BIG PROFIT MAR. ON USED SMALL 4X4 IF INTERESTED CONTACT. ME THANK YOU. STEVE

0 funny, 0 helpful.

cam0940 says on Nov 29, 2006, 23:47:

I don't think that anyone is saying the US is "so fucked up"... especially on a relative basis.

But as they say in boxing, you better come to fight. That's all. There's opportunity here. Opportunity to go from nothing to something. But the road is full of potential pitfalls and not everyone is going to be wildly successful simply because they are on American soil. It's a war. Some people aren't going to make it for various reasons, some of which we outlined above.

I'd still rather be here than anywhere else.

Strobers, I'm glad you enjoyed the post. I tried to write with a little entertainment value as well as making (what I thought) were valid points.

Miamimike brought up another situation that is also very realistic.

People that can't see that... let me put it like this... it's good that you can't imagine these things. It means you've been able to avoid serious problems and that's a good thing. I wouldn't wish my struggle on my worst enemy (well...I did sadistically smile to myself when my ex-wife moved to New Orleans just before Katrina...). But I think that having to have fought to build a semi-decent situation for myself makes me a better, more open minded, understanding person. I'm still a full blood Republican, but I have an appreciation for the pluses AND minuses of living in a capitalist economy. If you've never been threatened with having it all fall apart, you're not really in a position to make sweeping judgments about those who are in that situation.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

aztec says on Nov 30, 2006, 09:26:

strobers and cereal... ...residents in Georgia can attend any college or tech school free.

On another matter, please debate the issue rather than attack the messenger.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Cerealkiller says on Nov 30, 2006, 10:03:

Aztec I am really sorry if I sounded way out of line. However, I think we should encourage *thinking* before typing... I found the German origin comment highly offensive along with labelling homeless people "annoying"...annoying is a telemarketer invading your privacy by getting your phone number, not a person who for whatever reason has to live on the streets.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

0 funny, 0 helpful.

athensugadawg says on Nov 30, 2006, 10:44:

CEREAL.... I think you have misunderstood my intent....Strobers thinks that he has my political views all figured out as if the world is black and white. Nothing further from the truth...I voted a split ticket in the last election. Coming from Strobers:

"It's so easy to wag your finger in shame at the Lazy Homeless People, until you experience what it's like being homeless yourself. Until that happens you're just another Republican Bobblehead in lock step with Der Leader."

So, lock step, goosestep...it's the same to me...if he is so narrow minded as to accuse someone that doesn't think exactly like him of being an extremist, that is his own problem, certainly not mine.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Mr. Hollywood says on Nov 30, 2006, 10:57:

About "choices" I'm totally with Cam and Strobers on this one. Anyone who thinks that homeless folks are all to blame for their fates is really out of touch. I suspect that Mr. AthensUADawg is a college student or recent grad, given the login. So I'll forgive the presumptiousness of his comments.

But anyone who has studied even basic economics should understand that in ANY society, particularly a capitalist system, there are going to be winners AND losers. It's structural. Without an underclass there will be no upper class. The same system that can create a Bill Gates or a Warren Buffett will also chew up and spit out any number of other less talented, lucky or less resiliant people.

I have a couple family members who were cursed with serious alchohol problems. One of them is borderline homeless, but for the generosity of his brother, and the other would be homeless if she weren't married to a substance abuse counsellor (yes, very ironic. Shoemaker's kids never have shoes either). Both of them have college educations. Both had a great head start in life in some ways. But I'm not going to sit here and vilify them for their "bad choices" that were largely the result of alchololism and mental illness.

There were MANY times when I was fresh out of college that I found myself unemployed and unable to make rent. I was fortunate to have a family safety net as well. Some people don't, and they end up on the streets.

Never kid yourself that you can't be the next one, even if you're doing well right now.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

athensugadawg says on Nov 30, 2006, 11:18:

SORRY HOLLYWOOD... I'm in my 40's...and yes, I do realize that there is a genetic component to behavior over which we have absolutely no control...and these individuals who have been dealt this hand should be treated with care and compassion. But here is a very timely example....which involves burglary, cocaine abuse, and the death of a firefighter. Did you stick a crackpipe in this gentleman's mouth and force him to inhale???

http://www.11alive.com/rss/article.aspx?storyid=88387

I didn't think so...

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Gomezman5 says on Nov 30, 2006, 13:28:

Strober..... About this line"
" I hold Democrats at almost the same level of contempt as the Republicans."

Nope....I have much more contempt for Democrats than I do for Republicans when it comes to the health insurance issue. With Republicans, you know exactly where you stand. Any attempt by the government to create a national health program, they jump up and scream "Socialzed medicine", "you are trying to turn us into a socialzed economy." They tell ya that they are flat out against it. The Democrats on the other hand keep screaming about the 47 million without health care coverage, try to blame it all on the George Bush (of course) and the Repblicans even though with the exception of Hillary's attempt to screw the entire system up in 1992, they have done nothing since then to repair the situation

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Mr. Hollywood says on Nov 30, 2006, 17:02:

I guess a lot of the militant reactions to the homeless in the US come from our obsession with "personal responsibility". I don't disagree that people should be responsible and strive to make good choices, but it's a statistical fact that there will ALWAYS be fuckups and also people who just have an unlucky break. The point from my end that pisses me off is people who someone start judging the homeless in these harsh ways as if they deserve their fate and don't deserve our compassion. I frequently hear people talking about how "easy" it is to get off the streets in the US and how much "opportunity" there is, as if most homeless folks are just lifestylers who enjoy sleeping under the bridge and eating out of trash cans.

I'm not asking anyone to give out your extra bedroom to the guy with the crackpipe in his mouth but maybe you could simply show a little compassion and gratitude that your life didn't go down any such road.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

adrimm says on Nov 30, 2006, 19:30:

2006 Nobel Peace Prize This years' Peace prize was given to Economist Muhammad Yunus, a fellow who started a microcredit bank - they loan small amounts of money - as little as $8 - to poor people to kick start them.

From CBC:
"His bank operates on the belief that more than half of the world's population would not qualify for a loan, would not be creditworthy. So his bank is modelled to reverse banking rules or, in his words, "the less you have, the higher priority you have."

In recent years, the microcredit industry has exploded, stemming from the model Yunus set through Grameen Bank. As of 2005, some 3,200 microcredit programs reportedly reached 92 million "clients" compared with 13.5 million in 1995. Of the poorest clients, 83.5 per cent are women, according to the 2005 State of the Microcredit Summit Campaign Report.

How Grameen works:
Grameen Bank has 19,000 staff and 6.6 million borrowers. Most of its loans average at about $160 and borrowers repay in small weekly instalments. There is no collateral, and the money is used for people for self-employment or to generate income.

The bank does not take legal attempts to get money back "unlike in the conventional system," Yunus said. Grameen says it will never charge interest if total interest charges exceed the amount that was loaned. For example, someone who takes a $10 loan will not pay more than $10 in interest. In addition, Grameen says it asks borrowers to adhere to social goals, such as educating their children, keeping a sanitary lifestyle and eating right.

But does it make money? The bank says it loaned out $610 million in 2005, a year in which it said it made more than $15 million. Grameen said its repayment rate is 99 per cent.

The money is being used for women to build businesses, from selling merchandise to offering cellphone services to villages that don't even have land lines.

The bank also has a program for beggars (it had faced criticism for not going after the poorest of the poor) who exist on a subsistence lifestyle. The program typically gives $8 to a beggar with no collateral and no demands for interest. Now, the program has reached 55,000 people with a cost of about $500,000.

When asked about how he sees the future, Yunus has said he sees credit as a human right, and that giving everyone an opportunity will lead to a world free from poverty.

Or, as the Nobel committee sees its, "Every single individual on Earth has both the potential and the right to live a decent life. Across cultures and civilizations, Yunus and Grameen Bank have shown that even the poorest of the poor can work to bring about their own development."

For the source and more information click here

0 funny, 0 helpful.

miamimike says on Nov 30, 2006, 19:53:

On Hillary Clinton's Plan,,, Read about it here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_health_care_plan

The Big reason it didn't pass was a well orchestrated Attack Ad Campaign mainly by the Powerful Insurance Industry Lobby here in the USA. Clinton's Plan was "Swiftboated",,, They hate to let lose of their Gravy Train. They spent Millions to get GW Bush into office so expect nothing meaningful by him to alleviate the Health Insurance Crisis. John Kerry's Plan actually was much better(then Clintons') as he would allowed all insured in the USA to buy(not get for FREE)into the same Healthcare Plan the Politicians use as well as other Federal Employees. It is the FEHBP(fed employees heath benefit plan). Seemed like a good plan and many of us in the Healthcare industry scrutinized it and it would have lessened the crisis. I think Clinton's Plan may have passed but the Dems lost control of Congress in 1994 now the Democrats have the Power again and supposedly it will be an ISSUE. Americans say it is, so now we will see. One thing, our Politicians have to say the HELL with the large Healthcare Insurance companies as they do not have America in their best interest. The CEO(McGuire) of United Health Care Group Insurance stands to get $1.6 Billion of Stock Options upon retirement not to mention an annual pension of $4-5 MILLION Dollars annually, all on the backs of AMerica's lower and Middle class insurance Policyholders. This CEO(and his salary) exemplifies why we need health care Insurance reform. This company earns Billions denying Claims for policyholders, jacking up healthcare rates ect all for a CEO like this McGuire can retire a BillionAire. The rest of the Insurance companies aren't much better--deny claims, create a lot of red Tape so policyholders get discouraged and put off filing claims for benefits. Now some insurance companies are talking about sending their Insured to India for operations(cheaper) but with no reduction in Rates policyholders pay monthly. Bottom line, much higher Earnings for the CEOS of the Insurance companies. This is why the Insurance companies like the Status Quo,,,,


Kerry's Healthcare plan: http://www.independentsforkerry.org/uploads/media/issue-healthcare.html


FactCheck.Org on Kerry's Plan: http://www.factcheck.org/article264.html

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Gomezman5 says on Dec 1, 2006, 22:33:

The one thing I rember well about Hillary's plan Was the fact that she wanted to overhaul the entire system She wanted people like myself, a person with cadillac benefits, to be taxed for having more than what she and her group considered as necessary or adequate. That's a bunch of crap. She had no right to do something like that. I pay up the "you know what" for the insurance I have, it I'll be damned if some politician is going to come in here and tax me for the level of coverage that I pay for.

In other words, her mistake was a big one. Instead of concentrating on the then 23 million people without health insurance, and seeking a way to solve their plight, she endeavored to reform the entire system. I predicted it was dead from the start, and I was dead right. First of all, the 23 million people without health insurance were politically impotent. Most were poor or very poor, and they did not vote. On the other hand, those who have health care coverage, are politically active, we vote and we have the financial resources to stop any program that called for a universal overhaul of a system that would take a program that was essentialy a private one, and turn it into a quasi private/public one. Name me one instance where the public/govenment runs anything, and the quality of service is better than a private counter part......"there ain't none"

0 funny, 0 helpful.

billyb says on Dec 1, 2006, 22:46:

I don't know where NJTEA5 got the $800.. figure, but he doesn't know what he's talking about. The homeless in SF used to get $440/month in cash, but under a new regulation called "care not cash" they receive housing, food and health care bouchers instead of cash. While still bad the homeless problem has been reduced, since many moved on , as all they wanted was cash for drugs and booze.

BillyB

0 funny, 0 helpful.

billyb says on Dec 1, 2006, 23:04:

Adrimm, if i'm not mistaken.... I believe I read somewhere that in Colombia they are instituting something similar, where they provide very low interest loans to start micro businesses, mainly run by women head of households, pretty much like in Bangladesh.

BillyB

0 funny, 0 helpful.

adrimm says on Dec 2, 2006, 10:33:

BillyB Yes, I've read the same, perhaps in El Tiempo.. its great, I look forward to seeing the results.

I think that it is very significant that these micro-credit lenders won the *peace* prize.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

athensugadawg says on Dec 2, 2006, 15:32:

FOR EVERY ENRON, TYCO, ETC.... there are hundreds of success stories....and it's quite obvious that investors feel the same. The Dow has been hitting all time highs in the latter part of this year. Perhaps the cup is half-full....

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Mr. Hollywood says on Dec 2, 2006, 15:49:

I'm curious What does the rise or fall of the Dow really have to do with homelessness in either country?

I suspect the number of people who have become homeless primarily because of falling stock prices is rather low in both Colombian and the US.

Unemployment, illness, natural catastrophe on the other hand...

0 funny, 0 helpful.

morphus says on Dec 2, 2006, 16:47:

Being homeless in the U.S. has both its pros and cons. For example:

Pro: In colombia, all you need is a few cement blocks or some wood and you can build a small house. Con: You will still be poor without any job prospects in the horizon.

Pro: In the U.S. you can live in a van and find a job pretty easy. You will then have a positive income and be on your way to getting back on your feet. Con: You will have to find a place to wash up and use the bathroom.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

athensugadawg says on Dec 2, 2006, 18:15:

INVESTING 101.... diversify....get it?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Mr. Hollywood says on Dec 2, 2006, 20:06:

Maybe you claim to not be a dittohead But you sure sound like one.

See, your argument keeps circling back to people someone being stupid or making the "wrong choice" like working at Enron and having a 401 K that held almost soley company stock. But the flaw to this "logic" is that even if we grant you that such a thing might be stupid, it still doesn't arrive at people either deserving to be homeless or it being a good thing for us as a society. Being stupid does not = "deserves to suffer or die".

To put it in dittohead terms: "You want a country where helpless people are allowed to die in the streets? Move to India!"

0 funny, 0 helpful.

billyb says on Dec 3, 2006, 02:41:

Strobe, from all your posts you have shown... yourself to be a considarate and thoughtfull person and some one anybody would be proud to call a friend, but Dawg is correct as far as investing is concerned.

BillyB

0 funny, 0 helpful.

athensugadawg says on Dec 3, 2006, 06:45:

MANY THANKS STROBERS... for the kind and considerate thoughts. To wish harm on someone you have never met is the epitome of compassion and understanding. It's truly amazing that you know me so much better than my friends and even myself....and this from a few posts on PBH...

Hope everyone is having a great weekend....!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

aztec says on Dec 3, 2006, 07:06:

strobers... ...I don't know athensugadawg but he has attempted to address the questions. You on the other hand continue to attack the messenger rather that making a cogent argument.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Tinto (Moderator) says on Dec 3, 2006, 09:25:

Knock it off with the personal insults The paragraph below is full of them.



"...dense, out of touch, shallow, callous, individuals I have ever seen post here. You are an embarrassment to yourself and the human race at large. I truely hope that God sees fit one day to have you experience what others have suffered. Then and only then, will you understand what what everyone is talking about. Until that day comes, you will remain what you are, a caricature of a human being..."

0 funny, 0 helpful.

aztec says on Dec 3, 2006, 11:54:

On come on strobers... ...what if our diplomats behaved in this manner. You have to be able to discuss a disagreeable subject with out being personably disagreeable.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Mr. Hollywood says on Dec 3, 2006, 13:37:

Hmmm Perhaps you need to meet a few more "diplomats" before suggesting that.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

miamimike says on Dec 3, 2006, 15:00:

Gomez-in One Word Medicare. They consisently administer healthcare for retirees at a minimum of 7-11% cheaper then private health insurance would, remember now, Medicare's top administrators top out at a GS 15 pay level in Federal Government service(which is somewhere between 200K--240K annually) Compare that to that CEO McGuire's Salary(united healthcare insurance) who tops out at Millions, gets a Stock buyout of $1.6 Billion and a pension of $4,000,000-$5,000,000 annually. The Feds do it a lot cheaper and with better service. Better not perfect, nobody is perfect and btw, you don't hear many Medicare recipients here complaining about their Medicare benefits. Most, not all, Private companies(insurance) try daily to cut benefits, refuse treatment for thier policyholders. I know this for fact as I see it daily with both private and Medicare insurance as its in my work. Nonstop Complaints! I don't beleive Hillary was attempting to reform everyone's insurance(show me a link on this claim please) only making it more humane for those who had none but the program was Swiftboated by the Lobbyists' for private insurance, as once that happened, their long and lucrative run on the gravytrain would have ended. Not one reason we need insurance companies anyhow, they do ABsolutely nothing for the health of a Patient; they do not not prescribe, operate or dispense treatments to enchance a person's health.They are an Expensive 2nd Bureaucratic layer! The sad thing is, their accountants(private insurance) attempt to dictate treatment for policyholders all in the name of profit and this should never be as far as a Person's Health is concerned. I am looking for Healthcare to change now since the Democrats got back in, its a crisis that worsens daily now with over 45 million Americans who have no health insurance. Many want to buy it but at $600-$1000 Monthly(as a private non group policy purchaser)who can afford it? Kerry's plan was a great one as he would have changed nothing by allowing un-insured to BUY(not free)into the Government's Employees benefit plan(fehbp).This still could be done and hopefully it will be. Now, nothing is being done and the situation worsens daily,,,

Gomez-I looked through several links such as the one I listed below on Hillary's Plan and NO where could I see where she would changed plans to existing policy holders like yourself. If you can find specifics on what you claim, list them.

http://www.answers.com/topic/clinton-health-care-plan

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Gomezman5 says on Dec 3, 2006, 16:36:

Mike..... Because of you professional status, I don't deny the fact that you have a lot of expertise in this area. You saw the various programs in action every day. I agree that seniors with medicare were very happy with the insurance that they had. They did (do) take out supplements though. But I have to tell you, that not all people with private policies are dissatisfied either. The problem is that you only heard about the people who had problems do to utility review of individual cases for those that are hospitalized. Sure things are different. Even good policy requires a pre certification before an MRI is administered. That's not uncommon. And that is the kind of stuff you hear about Mike. People go and get an MRI, and then bitch when the bill comes and their insurance does not pay. Is that the insurance company's fault?.....because the people don't want to read their manual??? As a lawyer, I get people coming to me all the time saying that the company denies claims. Well, a lot of the time it's their own fault. There are rules these days. Now, that is not to say that there are not of companies that don't arbitrarily and/or capriciously deny claims/coverage.

Also Mike, if you think any National Health insurance program is going to be a liberal as medicare.....you are joking. For one thing, medicare is something earned. While most people are entitled to it upon reach the ageo of 65, they also have to have a minimum number of quarters that they have paid into the social security system. Also, don't you think a person who has worked a lifetime, and covered his share until he reached 65, is more entitled to quality health care coverage....? As opposed to the poor slob who is lazy and does not want to pull his weight? I sure do. Not to mention Mike from a practical matter, you cannot possibly think that our country can afford to absorb that number of people in need of inusrance/health care ./...what 46 million? ....and provide the same level of care that it provides the elderly on medicare. Who and the hell is going to pay for that? Impossible. It will NEVER happen. It is common knowledge, socialized medicine in europe, and just to the north in Canada....is horrible. Do you think that the majority of people who have insurance here, will ever settle for such a system here?

Now as to Hilary's program, I remember it was common knowledge at the time that the main reason that Hilary's program was DOA, and went NOWHERE, is that it attempted to reform the entire medical service system. It went nowhere....I never in my life, saw so much work put into a program, and then die ......just like that. It was rejected soundly by the majority of Americans.

If I recall, the biggest criticism was that it was an attempt to do a comprehensive overhaul of the health care system, which included taxing the benefits of people with coverage beyond a certain minimum level. People had asked again and again, why did she not merely work on providing coverage to those without insurance, and not try to evaluate or involve people who alreayd insured.

Look Mike, this is not hard to figure out. Medical is a comodity and being such, there is only so much of that comodity that is available. If you are going to flood the entire system with people who currently do not have access to the system, you have to spread those resources around to accomodate those new people. And when you accomodate these new people.....now enters that dirty word that nobody wants to talk about....it's called RATIONING. You have to ration to accomodate and when you ration, somebody loses. So who do you think is going to lose? It sure is not the people who have no coverage. The reallocation of those resources by definition could only screw people like me. As it is I get screwed now don't I. When I get stuck in a semi private room at one of the best hosptials, and the guy in the bed next to me pays nothing because he is on medicaid, my insurance company gets charge 5 or 6 times the per diem rate for me to lay in that room. Medicaid gives the hospital nothing. And to make up for it, my insurance company over pays right?

OK, in the coming days, I'll research Hilary's proposed program and hoepfully find what I am looking for. I'm not going to spend forever on it Mike. Search engines are not very good covering stuff like this from 16 17 years ago. Nevertheless, that was my take on her program.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Mr. Hollywood says on Dec 3, 2006, 17:06:

Insurance Actually, G5, I doubt your insurance company "overpays", especially when compared to what an uninsured individual pay. I make no claims to expertise, but I've had enough hospital experiences to see that the insurance bills, say, $5,000 for a service and then the big insurance company pays the "reasonable and customary" price of about 10% or 15% of that. Given the concentration of power in the insurance industry to pay or not, they've really got providers by the balls. My favorite pediatrician in the US told me she had to stop accepting insurance because Blue Shield and Blue Cross would only pay $35 for a half hour doctors visit and then would fuck the provider around for 6 months before paying that. So it was costing her more in carrying the administrative costs and trying to collect than she actually earned. And she wasn't willing to go to seeing 4 or 5 clients an hour like the insurance companies suggested.

I personally think there's a middle road somewhere, where basic health care would be a shared cost, much like roads or public utilities, and then individuals should be able to purchase insurance for whatever sort of "luxury" services they might want, MRIs, organ transplants, fertility drugs, whatever. But our current system in the US is deeply fucked.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

goin_south says on Dec 3, 2006, 17:40:

yeah, you're right Mr H Thanks also to medical arrogance and greed.

Ciao! Gustav. Bienvenitos, Ike.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Gomezman5 says on Dec 3, 2006, 17:44:

Frankly Hollwood You are wrong and ... out of touch with things. You really are misinformed about what is happening here. While I will admit, because I am a member of a large PPO, which because of its bargaining power is able to obtain a discount off of its "posted rates". The only people who pay the posted rates are those that are not in either a PPO, or an HMO. People who are self insuring with a regular indemnity plan that pays "reasonable and customary" based on zip code (generall) and "self payers" are the only people who pay posted rates. But for you to say that my insurance does not pay as much as an uninsured individual.....you are only demonstating how long you have lived in Colombia because you cannot name me one hospital in this country that will admit you for non emergency services as a self payer. So your example of the self payer having to pay more than what my insurance pays, is a hypothetical for practical purposes, is one that does not exist.

On the other hand Hollywood, every hosptial in the City of Chicago, has it's share of medicaid patients. I repeat, they pay a small fraction of what my insurance pays. What you should be asking is how is it that they get away with it. I'll answer it. The law says that the hospital shall accept the drastically reduced amount. The amount my insurance pays, is sooooo high, that it has to make up for the relatively miniscule amount that the govenment compensates the hosptials. This is not an issue for debate. It's common knowledge. Just ask Mike. This article from dollars and sense magazine attempts to explain how the burden is getting shifted from public to private (me). My premiums have sky rocketd and it is for the very reason discussed in the article

http://www.dollarsandsense.org/archives/2006/0706uretsky.html

And if the above article does not make you understand how I am getting screwed, read this:

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=44451

End of story

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Mr. Hollywood says on Dec 3, 2006, 20:33:

You're a hoot Now I've gone native!

And I suppose my doctor friend has too.

In fact, I DO know a person who was uninsured and was admitted into a high-end us hospital for major surgery, not through the ER, so it must be possible. And, yes, they screwed her for every penny and she paid it.

G5 for president!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Gomezman5 says on Dec 3, 2006, 21:27:

Well, I can tell ya Hollywood I have a helluva lot of experience in this area, and the only way that may happen is if there is somebody had reason to believe that she had the assets available to back her up. If I had a few CD's from a bank, and gave them to the hosptial as collateral I suppose it can happen. But, you can bet your life, that I know what the hell I am talking about. Buddy, not only do hospitals ask for proof of insurance before you are admitted, they make a photo copy of your insurance card. (BTW you saying you have coverage menas nothing) They also call to verify that the coverage is still in affect because for most people, if you get fired from your job today, coverage stops at midnight the next day. And lastly, they ask you for a copy of your drivers license or state issued ID. So you can tell me about some person you know. I'm telling you how it works......period.

Use common sense man. What business do you know is going to risk taking a hit for money of this magnitude just because someone says they have the funds to pay for it....Come on, you have to be samrter than that. Let me tell ya something. You cannot even go to a hospital for a chest x ray without supplying the above info. They are getting stricter than ever.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Gomezman5 says on Dec 3, 2006, 22:11:

Rubito.....medicaid never pays more They never pay more than full indemnity insurance.....never. How the hell would you know? Give me a break. You can say that but it just "aint" so. May I suggest that you too read the two links I posted a couple of posts up on this thread. Oh heck,,,,here they are ....read:

http://www.dollarsandsense.org/archives/2006/0706uretsky.html

And if the above article does not make you understand how I am getting screwed, read this:

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=44451

Also, we are NOT talking about emergency room visits. That is different.I also stated that above. I stand on what I say, for non emergency, situations, and if you do not have a pre approved medicaid card or approval for a procedure (the same way illegals get Medicaid to pay for their pregnancies) you WILL NOT get admitted to the hospital unless it is a public hospital.....like Chicago's Cook County hospital, whic of course is one of the best public hospitals in the entire world.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 3, 2006, 22:34:

I suggest Soylent Green medical insurance....=) for the homeless and AARP members......=(

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo...Listo!! Libertad!!!...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Mr. Hollywood says on Dec 4, 2006, 09:46:

G5 for president G5, "impossible" is like "pregnant". It either is or it isn't and and any exceptions disprove the rule. There's no "kinda impossible."

Perhaps your exposure to the medical industry is colored by the fact that you're a lawyer and almost by definition you'd be exposed to the more dysfuctional examples?

Anyway, I find discussions of medical bureaucracy tedious at best, so to whatever your next point is, I concede.

G5 for President or First Lady, whichever suits him best!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Gomezman5 says on Dec 4, 2006, 10:43:

You see.....even you are doing it now You were not like that before Hollywood. If I make a point, it's my opinion. I don't have to say kinda or maybe or it is possible. Give me a break.

Same old PBH nonsense. I guy makes an argument, and happens to know what he is talking about because he works in the area, and if that is not enough, he posts two links to support his case, and what happens?

You accuse me of being dogmatic (you said so without using the word). You claim that my experience is jaded. (Even though I have been practicing law for 19 years) And then you pack up and run because the subject matter is too tedious. If it is so tedious, than what the hell did you start arguing with me in the first place. I didn't pick the argument in the first place when you told me my insurance company was not paying too much.....(which it is). So Hollywood, I just don't get it.

But that is OK, you conceded above. But you did not have to qualify it. :) Enjoy your week Hollywood

0 funny, 0 helpful.