Hey GIB! It seems that economy in Bogotà is at its best...

robi666 (Trustee board) says on Aug 7, 2007, 16:02:

Source: http://www.caracol.com.co/noticias/463337.asp

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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Tinto (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Aug 7, 2007, 16:38:

Accounting for national GDP is tricky enough, I have no idea how they do it for departments (states) or cities. I wonder if they did a special study to promote a recent bond sale -- the city of Bogota sold bonds to international investors -- a relatively uncommon transaction, I believe.

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robi666 (Trustee board) says on Aug 7, 2007, 16:56:

Anyway, it is pretty different from the idea I got from the posts on this forum. GIB and others were reporting about many shops, more than before, closing down. And I do believe that he is a quite trustful observator.
Now, Comfenalco talks about 46% of increment in selling. It's a huge increment!

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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jaramillo says on Aug 7, 2007, 17:16:

I don't know about Bogotá, but when I went to Medellin last Christmas the sense of an economic boom was the strongest I've ever seen in Colombia. I was blown away.

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robi666 (Trustee board) says on Aug 7, 2007, 17:40:

jaramillo, what I don't get here in Medellin is this boom. You're right, you walk around El Poblado and it is breathtaking...
I mean, you go to Oviedo or El Tesoro, you see all those nice fancy shops and simply not enough people in there. All those high priced stuff and you cannot imagine how can enough people afford it. How can they stay open?
Then, you see all those new malls on construction, like Santa Fe or La Strada, and you hear like everything is sold out.
I mean: is this Colombia, or Europe, or USA?
So, going around, I just get the strong impression that 80% is money laundering and nothing more...

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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jaramillo says on Aug 7, 2007, 17:56:

I think it is more than just a bubble gringo. Real estate is doing well (of course, you can call any bull market a bubble, but the fundamentals in construction seems strong to me). New malls are a bit slow to start, but Carrefour, Exito, Flamingo, etc were packed and people were buying. There is money laundering, for sure, and remesas as well, but the improved security and the weak dollar also mean many well to do paisas are not sending their money out to the U.S. There is more investment, and new industries are popping up. I was amazed by the activity of the Itaguí industrial sector.

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john_stark says on Aug 7, 2007, 17:57:

When it comes to credit, the Colombians can learn a lot from the gringos. Now that they can't tap their houses as piggy banks, they're loading up on the credit card debt. Old Man Bernanke has his hands full trying to keep the whole house of cards (credit cards that is) from tumbling down. I'm loving it seeing it melt down.

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robi666 (Trustee board) says on Aug 7, 2007, 19:16:

I don't know GIB. You talk about all those credit card transactions, but, for what I know, it is not that easy to get a credit card in Colombia. It is not even easy to get a Comcel Plan Postpago without a good position in Datacredito...
For a better view, it would be nice to find a document like this http://www.dubaided.gov.ae/Statistics2006/wcy/Statistics/3.3.04.pdf
but for 2006, and not be based on feeling or impressions.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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Simon says on Aug 7, 2007, 19:54:

"None the less the charts don't lie. Colombia is holding up pretty well but if Colombians think they have discovered a new way to grow an economy at a super rapid pase they are snorting some of their own white powder."


I take offense at this comment. Especially since you say you live here. You're more than welcome to get the hell out of here!

"DON'T FOK WITH COLOMBIA!!"-----Simon

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Simon says on Aug 7, 2007, 21:53:

You're right Mario, I forgot this was PBH, where the foreigners are allowed to bash Colombians as much as they want.

"DON'T FOK WITH COLOMBIA!!"-----Simon

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goin_south says on Aug 7, 2007, 22:08:

You guys are just about like the stock market.
All the Joy! Just before the fall.
Personally... I wouldn't be surprised to see some upheaval in Bogota soon.
The Farc have not been such happy campers lately.
And, the roads are still blocked in Narino.

Uncle Allllll !!!!.... how 'bout some help down south?
Or...Is Narino your own Alabama?

Why Not Colombia?..........Stay Tuned, for more.... utterly worthless, self-indulgent gobbets of nonsense.

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goin_south says on Aug 7, 2007, 22:09:

or... is Narino your own ...Neuvo Orleans?
Let it go to hell.

Why Not Colombia?..........Stay Tuned, for more.... utterly worthless, self-indulgent gobbets of nonsense.

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robi666 (Trustee board) says on Aug 8, 2007, 05:09:

GIB, do you own a Colombian Credit Card?
As you said, "if you can afford it", that means that they will deeply study your position!

In my bank (BBVA) to approve a cc and study the amount of credit for it, they ask:
Open a checking account (not a saving) and they won't do for everyone, i.e. people with no history
Your tax declaration from the last year
Your actual position = a document from a tax consultant stating your patrimony, in and out (not older than one month)
Your job payment papers (and if you earn the minimo, of course they do not give a cc)
Possibly, your real estate patrimony in the form of last Impuesto Predial
They check if you're reported in Datacredito
In Italy, you open the account (current, saving account doesn't even exist), they give you a cc, that's it.

GIB, it's not even easy to open a bank account in Colombia!

It is not even easy to get an Exito credit card, 300.000 pesos of credit in it. My empleada could not get it, even with a paper showing that she was working for me. They wanted me to co-sign for her and showing them, again, my laboral papers, etc.

Can it be different in Bogotà?

But again GIB, without a document with the actual numbers of cc and cc transactions in Colombia, like the one I found for 2004 and that reports the low numbers of Colombia, your street observations, although they can be alarming, cannot show us much.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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robi666 (Trustee board) says on Aug 8, 2007, 05:14:

Now, GIB, I have to say that street observation is frankly alarming, like you always said...

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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jarhead says on Aug 8, 2007, 06:03:

robi, all my employees have credit cards, shit I wrote their certificacion laboral....I have written over 30 of those in the last year, they live in Soacha, Ciudad Bolivar, they can barely afford to eat, and they all have credit cards with at least a 2 million credit line.....all they need is a copy of the cedula, and a certificacion laboral...some of these guys have 2 and 3 cards.....I pay them on the 15th and 30th of every month...two days later they are asking me for a loan, the funny thing is, if you look in their pockets, they all have apple Ipods, or the latest cell phone, fucking cell phones worth 6 or 700,000 pesos......let's see what happens with that credit card debt when I have to get rid of most of them, or I have to close down the factory because I cannot stay afloat due to the dropping dollar!!!!!!!

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webmanco says on Aug 8, 2007, 06:03:

I only wish that with the wisdom of MR. GIB not too many Colombians will fall behind on credit cards payments but knowing the problems in his own country with credit cards I find it hard to believe his efforts will work, and by the way money laundering works at its best in North America as well.

And about construction it is true, to many apartments and new shopping malls are been built, the sad part is that when new buildings are filled up some others will close down and will had a "for rent or sale" sign.

In Medellín the upscale neighborhoods of El Poblado and Laureles do not have where else to build more, now on the other side of the city they are building apartments like crazy, building on what was before nice houses by the mountain, soon enough on "La loma de los Bernal" they will had same problems as El Poblado and Laureles, too many people, few roads, less green. but people still buy. Apartment with "fancy" names as New York or Rio de Janeiro.

Pedro Goméz is building or lending his name to new constructions in Medellín, where it is said the biggest shopping mall in SA will be build, they will build another mall as Santa Fe in Bogotá.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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Simon says on Aug 8, 2007, 08:58:

OK GIB, but just be nice.

"DON'T FOK WITH COLOMBIA!!"-----Simon

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john_stark says on Aug 8, 2007, 18:58:

I try to invest as little money as possible in the US economy and that alone has done wonders. The returns on international investments the last several years have far surpassed anything available in the US. The pound and the euro are now the heavyweight currencies of the world while the greenback is only good for wiping your ass after you've had some nasty diarhea.

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arthur brode (☼Travelguide writer) says on Aug 8, 2007, 21:05: