Help needed: moving to Colombia

OneHappyBoy says on Apr 28, 06:42:

Less quality of life in Europe than Colombia? It would be interesting to hear about that! With a per capital GDP of $7200/yr-10% inflation- and a poverty level of 49%, it would be interesting to understand the numbers behind that comment...

My wife and I are in the transition of her moving to the US.. She comes from a very well to do family and has a good education, but got shit canned from her job when she turned 40 and hasn't found a decent one since (2 yrs ago). She always says, " I don't mind staying in Colombia, I have a good life here(on a $350/month salary)", but when I say sure, she always changes her tune and wants to migrate here...

The retirement plan of most Colombian women is to find a rich man, or somebody from the 1st world to marry since there isn't much opportunity for a good life after 40.

Dude, a better quality of life in Colombia is an illusion, from lack of knowing more about the rest of the world.

Words are just words. nothing more or less, but eloquently expressed, like a symphony to Beethoven's ear, no army can defeat and no oppression can exist.

Bill Turley says on Apr 28, 07:14:

OneHappyBoy
You couldn't be more wrong! My standard of living here is much higher than it would be in the USA. On my pension, the life style in the US would be marginal survival. Here I live very comfortably. I bought land, built a house and live solely on my US Pension. I only eat filet mignon never hamburg. Have zero concerns about organic foods because that is the only thing available. Pollution, not any here! Crime, I haven't had a problem with it in more than 10 years.
Be careful in over generalizations, Colombia has a wide variety of living areas. In the big cities things can be very expensive in the better areas and dangerous in the poorer areas.
My wife, also from an upper class family, (daughter of a Supreme Court Justice) went to the US, married me, a gringo,felt so bad there that we moved to Colombia.

Mr. Bill Somondoco

sloopskipper says on Apr 28, 07:25:

But, Bill he is not talking about a pensioned ex-pat.

Kem says on Apr 28, 07:26:

OneHappyBoy, I dont want to go into details but her family owns many fincas ( I mean with thousands of cows), her dad is a rather important man in Colombia, and she has a good job herself (making more then the 350 you mentioned). We will have our own driver, maids etc. No way I will be able to afford that here in Europe.
Bill, daughter of s supreme court justice ? We got something in common -)

lpdiver says on Apr 28, 07:28:

Kem,

Three questions.

1. Have you talked with your girlfriend about your ideas? How does she feel about living in Colombia? Hmmm? How do you intend to support yourself and your wife? How does she feel about being the only/primary bread winner?

Forget about the other two questions.

Good luck!

t

"cook some rice!"

robi666 says on Apr 28, 07:28:

"Bill, daughter of s supreme court justice ? We got something in common -)"

Kem... for a moment I thought your father in law surname was Mancuso... :)

There are a lot of people here on Student Visa. Quite easy things to do.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

Cerealkiller says on Apr 28, 07:45:

Moving in together is a couple thing and if you're serious about it, it requires that both adjust to new situations. I don't mean to sound overly critical because I don't know you, but from what you said, being provided for doesn't bother you one bit. I don't know how to put this without sounding like an outright bitch -and trust me it isn't my intention- but if I were dating some guy who's all cool about maids and drivers but only at the expense of my dad -'cause he can't afford it himself -then I'd consider dating someone who is a) on my same socio economic level or b) driven and proud enough to stand up to me and say "your comfort or our relationship".
Trust me, if you move down to Colombia to enjoy all these things I can assure you that your role in that family will be that of a "gringo huevon" and don't expect her to be faithful to you because afterall, it is because of her that you're enjoying these things you're not used to.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

Kem says on Apr 28, 07:45:

lpdiver, yes ofcourse I have, many times. We want to keep our options open about where to live in the future, but first couple of years she wants to continue her job, partly becos she wants more experience, partly becos she wants to save up money. That said, her family is really tight (like most colombian families I guess) so she wants to stay close with them.
How to support? Well obviously I will try to get a job there once I complete my spanish courses, and her father already assured me not to worry about that. In the meanwhile (when studying spanish) I have some savings so I will have an input in the household.

Robi666, so in short whats the easy procedure to obtain a visa like that? Yes I know Im being lazy not to look it up myself -)
And father in law just got promoted , I was there for the festivities 3 weeks ago...

Gator says on Apr 28, 08:08:

Student visa relatively easy but collecting the needed paperwork will be a pain. Start with the closest Colombian Embassy/Consulate.

Since, as you say, live together, under Colombian law, you would be eligible for a TC Visa which is granted to a spouse of a Colombian national or common law partner.
Documents needed for the application:
Passport valid for a minimum of three months
Photocopy of pages used.
Fully completed visa application form.
Three recent photographs front view, with light background, 3x3 cm.
Registration Colombian civil marriage, issued in advance no more than ninety (90) days prior to
filing.
Notarized photocopy of the cedula of the Colombian spouse or partner.
Notarized and apostilled copy of the foreign spouse birth certificate.
Letter written by the Colombian spouse requesting the visa to his/her spouse be granted.
Document demonstrating activity to be carried out in Colombia as self employed worker or job
offer by public or private entity.
!!!MOST IMPORTANT IF THERE IS NO FORMAL MARRIAGE!!! A copy of a court order or
affidavit made before a notary attesting to the existence of the permanent union (common
law relationship).

Knowing Colombia like I do with he alleged background and family connection one telephone call would result in the issuance of a visa with no further questions.

Based upon Kim's last post, "I dont want to go into details but her family owns many fincas ( I mean with thousands of cows), her dad is a rather important man in Colombia, and she has a good job herself (making more then the 350 you mentioned). We will have our own driver, maids etc. No way I will be able to afford that here in Europe.
Bill, daughter of s supreme court justice ? We got something in common -)" I SMELL A TROLL

No Colombiana would sanction such a post detaining the family's standing in Colombia.

"Brevior Sltare Cum Deformibus Mulieribus Est Vita!" .

Kem says on Apr 28, 08:22:

Thanx for the info Gator.
Im not a troll, u can check my previous posts, they go back till 2006. To be honnest, my gf said that I shouldnt worry about the visa, paperwork etc, that it will be taken care of. But I was wondering if I could do it on my own, you know just to prove that I actually can do those things myself -)
Did I reveal a lot of the family s standing, like its inappropriate? Is that what u meant?

jorgegdiaz says on Apr 28, 08:44:

Ken,
First look for a school in the city where you are going to live.

http://web.ustabuca.edu.co/inicio/admisiones/extranjeros/index.jsp
There is a link "VERSION EN INGLES" opens up a word document.

http://www.eafit.edu.co/EafitCn/relacionesInternacionales/english/lear...
another school, very popular among PBHers

Man with hole in pocket feel cocky all day.

jorgegdiaz says on Apr 28, 09:03:

http://www.cancilleria.gov.co/WebContentManager/webapp/display.jsp?sid...
List of embassies abroad

http://www.cancilleria.gov.co/WebContentManager/webapp/display.jsp?sid...
Consulates with web page

Man with hole in pocket feel cocky all day.

Mononoke28 says on Apr 28, 10:34:

You have a much better quality of life in Colombia if you have a steady stream of money coming from somewhere else in my opinion. Even someone who's only getting $500-$1000 a month from Social Security can have a grand life in Colombia. You can't even afford rent here with that.

So if you can afford it... enjoy it and let most of us get consumed with envy.

Diana

Gator says on Apr 28, 13:00:

Read the posts-delete the troll comment. Never a good idea to talk about big pesos in a Internet forum. I, too, was fortunate to have relatives on the wife's side who are connected. In Colombia never hesitate to use what you got-hell, everyone else does. Just make contact with the consulate where you live to get the ball rolling. Health insurance is available and, by USA standards, cheap. We have Colsantis (http://www.colsanitas.com) about 323.000 a month.

Depends on what type of classes. If it is a formal school-type of course in a university setting you will likely need a student visa. If it is one of the small schools that are less formal you probably do not need a student visa.The student visa can be requested by someone planning to attend a private or public educational organization recognized by the national government. The applicant must take a minimum of 10 hours per week schedule in the institution to be eligible for the visa. . A student visa in Colombia lasts for a maximum time of one year, however,you may renew the visa as many times as needed to complete an educational program, after which, if the person intends to stay in Colombia, the visa can be exchanged for another of a category that applies. To apply one needs a valid passport, a filled form, three passport photos, a medical certificate stating the physical and mental health of the applicant, a certificate of acceptance from the Colombian educational institute the applicant is planning to attend, and certificates of economic solvency from parents or person who will be responsible for the expenses of the applicant.

I will warn you upfront that different schools/colleges/universities have different internal polices on what is needed over and above the normal visa requirements.

MRE(like a state department in Colombia) requires the following:

Temporary Student Visa (TE)

It is issued to individuals who wish to study in Colombia as a regular academic student in an elementary, middle, or high school institution; as a student of an institution for higher education in virtue of an exchange student program, or in any other program at a public or private institution recognized by the National Government of Colombia.

This visa allows multiple entrances and it may be issued for up to one year. It may be renewed in Colombia until the completion of the applicant's studies.

This visa DOES NOT allow the applicant to work. When the program requires the student to have a labor practice, the visa may state occupation "practicante" previously certified by the educational institution.

REQUIREMENTS • Valid Passport with at least 3 available pages and valid for a minimum of 3 months.
• Two (2) passport copies, including the information pages as well as all used pages.
• Visa Application Form fully signed and completely filled out. • Two (2) color passport photographs.
• Copy of Admission Certificate from the Colombian Institute. This certificate may be a copy of the registration certificate or a fully certified copy of the agreement between educational institutions in the case of an exchange student.
• Proof of legal existence of the Educational Institution in Colombia . This is a certificate known as: CERTIFICADO DE PERSONERIA JURIDICA in Colombia .
• Proof of Financial Solvency. Bank statements of the last three months, certificates of income, income tax or any other financial documents of the applicant or affidavit of support from parents or person paying for applicant's studies and related expenses while in Colombia. If a scholarship is financing the studies, a certification from the International Organism, or State or Private institution stating this fact is required. • Consular fee: US$ 40. Cash or Money Order (Exempt for US citizens).
• NOTE:

Document notarized by a Notary Public must be certified with an APOSTILLE from the Secretary of State or the state where it was issued.

"Brevior Sltare Cum Deformibus Mulieribus Est Vita!" .

OneHappyBoy says on Apr 28, 13:36:

Kern-
My comment is about the average Colombian, not about the exceptional few that has privledge, and definitely not about expats.

The economic variance is astounding in Colombia. My brother in law has a driver, maid, cook, and private secretary.. Not because is is embarrassingly rich, it is because the underemployment is embarrassingly high...He pays them dirt ( a couple of hundred USD/month each) on a $130,000USD salary.

The employment laws in Colombia are few to nonexistent, and offer little, or no protection. If you find economic security in a Colombiana, good for you, The reality for alot of Colombians is that their economic life improves greatly outside of Colombia..Any country that supplies a net emmigration of illegal aliens to Central America (Mexico, Costa Rica, etc) and the US of A, surely isn't a picture of stable terra firma, economically.

It's a beautiful country with great people, but when the big gringo up north catches an economic cold, central and south america gets the flu followed by political unrest.

Just my thoughts

Words are just words. nothing more or less, but eloquently expressed, like a symphony to Beethoven's ear, no army can defeat and no oppression can exist.

Cerealkiller says on Apr 28, 14:21:

OneHappyBoy Labour rules in colombia exist and there are plenty of laws to go around. Read Codigo sustantivo de Trabajo. They offer protection and the tools to enforce it are existent. The thing is people are not well informed about these laws. A maid is highly unlikely to sue if you're paying her peanuts because getting a job as a maid in a decent household is difficult. And most people who do a job related to their education won't throw it away easily, but in regards to the law existing, you are dead wrong.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

Gator says on Apr 28, 14:30:

Amigo, IF you every get here you will find, in this country, a job is a job and peolple are thankful to have one-it is NOT the nanny state you are use to in Europe.

"Brevior Sltare Cum Deformibus Mulieribus Est Vita!" .

Rubito says on Apr 28, 14:35:

OneHappyBoy there are WAY more Canadians in the US than Colombia? Is Canada economically stable?

Kem, I agree with Gator, it would be crazy NOT to use their connections to get the visa, plus it's really not such a big thing in any case as long as your Spanish is good, PLUS you could offend them by not offering their help. If I were you I would look at investing those savings in Colombia and living off of the income from them. That way you will have your own money as a safeguard should the relationship go south, and you won't have to worry about the strengthening peso.

And don't worry about these people and their garbage about their not being a good standard of living in Colombia. Most people in here would cut their balls off before they'd admit that another country besides the one they are in could ever be a decent place to live. I'm going myself in August, I will be living and working there.

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

Kem says on Apr 28, 15:35:

Jorge thanks for the links !

Gator yes I see your point and somehow agree with it. Tho I dont think I really released specific information. But anyway thanks for your more then usefull information, I really appreciate it ! I might get back to you for more info, if you dont mind.

OneHappyBoy, fair enough, but its not really relevant to me, thanks anyway -)

And Cerealkiller, I missed your post sorry. I can see where you coming from but its not like that at all. Im not really cool about maids and drivers, actually in contrary but I was just describing the situation. I dont like to be dependend on her family, and she knows that. We even had discussions about that. And your theory of her being not faithfull to me, I fail to see the logic in that. I think you jumped into conclusions a bit too fast.

Mononoke gracias !

Cerealkiller says on Apr 28, 15:42:

Well then Kem, off you go then and good luck. I think I might be a bit on the defensive as we have been plagued by trolls for a while, I read some of your previous posts and I got the impression you're far from trolling so Im sorry if i came across as nasty.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

romy says on Apr 28, 16:03:

Sounds like a sweet deal Kem. For Godssake her dad is telling you it's cool, that's unheardof. You must be one cool dude. I'd definately try it out for a few months, not sure I'd want to live the rest of my life that way though...

rumronrum says on Apr 28, 16:11:

Obtaining a student Visa is easy. Just give us a call when your ready.

http://www.visascolombia.com

RumRonRum

Kem says on Apr 29, 02:47:

Rubito cheers man ! I know what you mean with offending them turning down the offers. Thing is just, as much as they like me, I want to prove them that I can do things on my own. Well not only to them, but also to me, you know self esteem and all that -) Your advice is spot on, I think I will partly invest, partly live from my savings. Maybe see you in August !

Cerealkiller, no pasa nada, like I said I understood where you were coming from.

Romy I dont think we r gonna live there for the rest of our lifes, we keep our options open. And yes I dont want to regret the rest of my life not having tried.

Rumronrum I will !

aztec says on Apr 29, 05:19:

Kem, You may be able to find more information on this site if you do a search. At one time there was a great deal of background concerning such a move. Things have been deleted so I couldn't vouch for the data still being available.

It's for sure some of the people who have so far replied to your post have first hand experience with living in Colombia. Many of our responses will depend on our very unique set of circumstances. For example, Rubito and Gator while offering very accurate and usable information, each "come to the table" with different goals and resources.

Your own personal situation seems fought with dangers. None associated with Colombia in itself. Rather, I would advise taking a hard look at what you want out of life. Without an exit strategy, the move will forever affect that course!

For example do you really wish to remain a ward of your wife and her family. Without resources of your own that in all likelihood is what will happen. There are doctors, lawyers and engineers there driving taxi's.

My advice is that you plan on making your stay in Colombia temporary. Don't commit, at least psychologically, until you have managed to live there for at least six months.

Rubito says on Apr 29, 12:53:

I can say this, it IS possible to make a good living in Bogota, it's not common but POSSIBLE, if you:

Own your own business (has to be something good though)
Invest directly in an already successful business (has to be done smartly)
Work in a very high-demand field (like IT or the arts)

Also depending on where the bar is, if you are FLUENTLY bilingual there are professional jobs out there where you can make 2 to 3 million a month. This isn't a lot by gringo standards but it's more han enough to live comfortably in Bogota especially if it's really only your own ass you are covering. Getting a job in that bracket in Bogota can be very difficult but your command of English would help you cut to the front of the line. Of course, your Spanish would have to be IMPECCABLE too.

---Violence is the price of freedom.---