Help me feel better about visit to Colombia

slguy says on Apr 23, 2007, 07:25:

Everyone I speak to tells me that Bogota is far different today, than ten years ago.

I spent 10 days there in January, my first visit, and was enchanted. I never felt the least bit endangered, in any way.

Seems like the real issure is- you don't trust your child's grandmother to ensure her safety? I've met VERY few grandmothers in my 52 years that aren't at least a little overprotective!

Just try focusing a little more on the wonderful opportunity your daughter has, rather than being so worried about history. They'll be fine - and your daughter will return with lifetime memories...

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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aztec says on Apr 23, 2007, 07:50:

It is normal for you to be concerned... ..for the welfare of your daughter. Many of us share the same fear when our children are away visiting some place new.

Of course, visiting a South American country where you have never been is frightening under the best of circumstances. However, if the father and the grandmother are confident they can protect her, you should not be worried about her safety. It is almost a guarantee they would not place her in any dangerous situation.

Bogotá is like any large city in that there are areas where one must be careful. In that regard I have come to trust my relatives to warn me and keep me away from those places. You should have a serious discussion with the grandmother and come to an understanding between the two of you about what is expected of her and your daughter.

This can be wonderful opportunity for the whole family. I would advise you to let her go and try to trust the people responsible for her.

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ColombianoGringo says on Apr 23, 2007, 07:55:

He will appreciate it forever One thing I still appreciate about my American ex-wife is that she came to Colombia and still supports me taking our children. Despite her nervousness, she went to Colombia with me and our then one year old daughter. Even now, she is fine with our two young kids going with my parents or me. I know she had to overcome so fears and I am really thankful to her for that. The kids went just last summer with my parents for a month. They had the time of their lives and got a chance to show off and practice their spanish.

Not only would I suggest that you allow him to take your daughter, but I would encourage you to go with them. It would be good for you to see where your husband is from and learn about his culture and upbringing. They are not kidnapping every gringo in the country and you will all be fine. He will likely never forget it and always be thankful for your support.

Peace,
CG

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thur says on Apr 23, 2007, 08:51:

Jeez. One month, on vacation, surrounded by family. Get a grip.
Greetings,

~ UPDATE ~
www.pbase.com/thur

- www.pbase.com/thur

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Miguel says on Apr 23, 2007, 09:13:

Yellow card on thur IMHO the woman has a grip and is simply asking for input. Her parental concern is natural. Hopefully they still have family in B/Quilla so she can see a far different Colombia.

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JMCana says on Apr 23, 2007, 09:40:

Don't worry - be happy First, I have to agree that I have never met a grandmother who was not protective.

Second - IMO Bogota has changed much in 10 years and with someone who knows the city (like a grandmother) it is very safe.

Third - I agree with the poster that you should go and visit the city.

Fourth - What a great experience for your child. What she learns in that month will probably account for much more than they can teach in school in a year.

Fifth - should your daughter get hurt (which I highly doubt), Bogota has some of the best medical care in the world.

Sixth - And always feel free to ask questions here on PBH. Once you get through the BS, there are some very knowledgeable and honest helping people here.

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Gator says on Apr 23, 2007, 09:41:

She Should Have No Problems. I and my wife live in Bogotá, north end, and things here are, IMHO, safer than say Washington. DC. Which BTW is the only place we were ever robbed at gunpoint.

Grandparents will be fully knowledgeable of the areas not to visit and current events. Is she traveling with her Grandmother or by herself?
("will travel to Colombia for the first time with her Grandmother.")If she is alone you will have to give her written permission from you AND your husband for her to travel. Not sure about the USA (out bound) but she will not be allowed to leave Colombia without that and the fact she is with a grandparent does not wave the rule of written permission from both natural parents.

As things tend to backup with the state department this time of year due to summer traveling it is not too early to apply for her passport.


"Brevior Sltare Cum Deformibus Mulieribus Est Vita!" .

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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aztec says on Apr 23, 2007, 09:56:

Gator, forgot about .written permission. That could be a real problem if she doesn't plan ahead. Does it have to be notarized?

The Colombian authorities wouldn't let my sister-in-law leave Colombia with her two children even though they were going to visit the father in Mexico. He had to send a notarized letter from Mexico giving permission for the children to leave the country.

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Simon says on Apr 23, 2007, 10:54:

I really don't understand why any self-respecting Colombian would marry anyone who would feel so much xenophobia towards our country. It baffles me.

"Tu vas a ver, llegaras a mi edad y veras que Colombia seguira igual"-----Simon Sr.

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aztec says on Apr 23, 2007, 10:58:

Simon, it is a mother thing. She will be alright. She just needs reassurances. She has implied nothing negative about Colombia. She is just frightened because her young daughter is traveling to another continent.

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Simon says on Apr 23, 2007, 11:07:

Yeah, but Colombia is not like Iraq! Puhhleaseee, as if we were in a freaking war zone or something.

"Tu vas a ver, llegaras a mi edad y veras que Colombia seguira igual"-----Simon Sr.

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David in Idaho says on Apr 23, 2007, 12:03:

Not to start an argument Simon, but much of Colombia is, as you put it, a "freaking war zone," since the country is home to the longest civil war on the American continents, with active fighting going on for over forty years. Of course, it is NOT Iraq and bears little resemblance. And as other posters have pointed out, many areas are as safe as anywhere else in Latin America, and indeed, safer than the inner-city neighborhoods of the US, where I wouldn't risk my own life. (I barely survived two years in West Philly.)

Still, the US State Dept. maintains a travel advisory for Colombia, and so the poster has good reason to post here, seeking clarification. Hopefully she will find the truth somewhere between the over-reactive stance of our government and press, and the cluelessness of naive posters like Simon who would have us believe that Colombia is as safe as Disneyland.

I intend to spend at least a month out of every year in Colombia (Barranquilla) so that my wife and daughter can maintain a connection with their roots. But as a husband and a parent, I can identify with the poster's concern. Common sense and help from family who live there should be enough to insure a safe and enjoyable trip for the young traveler, in my opinion.

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Stefka says on Apr 23, 2007, 12:23:

Thanks everyone so many responses........and I got out of it just what I expected........lots of reassurance that everything is going to be alright. I am really all behind her getting to do this and I love all the suggestions that I should go also but my husband and I can't afford to go at this time (we have four children) the airfair alone is over the top.

Now to answer this response: I really don't understand why any self-respecting Colombian would marry anyone who would feel so much xenophobia towards our country. It baffles me.

I've got to say, my husband is a total self-respecting Colombian,
he decided 17 years ago when we married that he would never become an American, even though five of his brothers and his Mother did.
Every Christmas he takes our family to South Florida and we meet up with tons of his aunts uncles and cousins from Colombia. They travel from Colombia and we all stay in a huge rental house.
My children have grown up on Ajiaco, Sancocho and fried plantain. We take a special trip to Atlanta every month to get the best Guanabanas Mangos and Guayabas. My children love to have friends over from school because my husband always makes it fun by getting a fresh coconut and showing them how to drink the water and every birthday party he himself makes obelias (spelling?) with a special obelia iron he brought back from Colombia many years ago.
The real reason for my fear is yes, my husbands family is very wealthy
and the reason they left Colombia is that his baby brother was "picked up" from school (1975) and held until money was paid. His family had loads of land and sold it all to move here.
After putting six children through American colleges all the money is now gone and we all live a very modest life (my husband is an artist) so not lots of money for us but still we are blessed.

and last but not least yes.........we had to go and sign special papers for my daughter to be allowed to travel with her grandmother alone with out us.
I wish I could go to Colombia and yes, by Mommy protection instinct would probably be going crazy even if she were going to say Paris with out us. My husband has always told her from the time she was only 1 "you are a Colombiana"
still a worried but I loved reading all of your responses.
Stefka

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Simon says on Apr 23, 2007, 12:35:

"and the cluelessness of naive posters like Simon who would have us believe that Colombia is as safe as Disneyland."


I never said this was Disneyland but here where I am in Armenia it is pretty safe, thankfully.

"Tu vas a ver, llegaras a mi edad y veras que Colombia seguira igual"-----Simon Sr.

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David in Idaho says on Apr 23, 2007, 13:09:

glad to hear you're safe Of course, Stefka is sending her daughter to Bogotá, not Armenia. Anyway, I didn't want to get on your case too badly, but I just wanted to point out that a flippant disregard for the poster's concern was not doing her any favors, and not really adding anything of value to this thread.

Stefka, I'm glad you are feeling better about the upcoming trip. Sounds like you've really done a lot to embrace your husband's culture and keep it alive for your children. Good job! Don't be put off by some people on this forum who lurk in the shadows, anxious to pounce on anyone who might have the slightest doubt that Colombia is a perfect paradise.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Apr 23, 2007, 13:13:

Where is Elmo? I keep waiting for Elmo to step up and offer creative ways to make everyone "feel better".

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Apr 23, 2007, 13:20:

I agree with you stefka, i would be worry sick, we parents think nobody can protect our kids better than us, and I am not talking only about kidnappings, talking about everyday thing..all sort of horrible things will come to our mind... I am sure she will be ok, but is a mother job to be worry.

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coffee beaner says on Apr 23, 2007, 13:25:

"Still, the US State Dept. maintains a travel advisory for Colombia"

Typical American attitude, if the U.S. says something it must be it... I agree with Simon, its not like she is going to Iraq! Get a grip lady.

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Apr 23, 2007, 13:38:

i Think she has the right to be worry, I have two kids and I will be worry sick if they are going to Colombia on their own, not just because of kidnappings, but robbery, pandillas, all sort of things that they never have encouter here in the UK and i said this because as a colombiana i know some of the dangers there. the funny thing is when I am in Colombia is me the one that give them a bit of freedom but my Colombian family are the ones restricting them, they are forever telling them to be careful don't go on your own, don't go there or do that is too dangerous.. and they feel they haven't got much freedom there, just imaging if they go on their own! but I do agree going to Colombia is not like going to Orlando on holidays i will be a bit more worry.

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Gator says on Apr 23, 2007, 13:53:

Since she will Be Traveling on A US Passport I would not anticipate too much trouble but the Government of Colombia DOES HAVE a regulation by which every Colombian minor abandoning the Colombian territory either without his/her parents or with only one of them, must have the written authorization of the non-traveling parent(s) to leave the Colombian territory. This regulation does NOT refer to children coming into the country, but to children leaving the Country. Believe me, this regulation is strictly enforced by the Colombian Immigration Authority DAS( Departamento Administrativo de Seguridad).


I would imagine either of these forms would do but I would welcome comments and suggestions. UC???


AUTORIDADES DE EMIGRACION

Aeropuerto de la ciudad de _____________________________,COLOMBIA


Señores:

Nosotros,__________________________y_______________________.

Identificatiodo(a)______________________________________________ con

en mi calidad de___________________________ del (de la)

menor_____________________ identificado(a) con el

pasaporte___________________le concedo permiso para ingresar y salir

de Colombia al pais de________________________,

ciudad de ____________________

___________________________ __________________________
Firma Huella Indice Derecho


LETTER OF PERMISSION AND AUTHORIZATION


We, [Name of father and mother], bearer of citizen


identification ID US Passport No._________, and issued this date,

hereby grant permission for our natural minor child [Name of Child],

with Passport No._________________, permission and authorization to

leave the country of Colombia and return to and enter the United

States with the child's Grandmother, ____________________________

[Name of Grandmother], bearer of US Passport No. ________. This trip

is expected in _______________, and this permission and authorization

is effective from this date until the date of the trip.


Signed this___________day of_______________2007


In witness whereof we sign this document:



__________________ _________________________


[Name of Natural Father and Mother]



Notarized by Public Notary







"Brevior Sltare Cum Deformibus Mulieribus Est Vita!" .

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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Cindster says on Apr 23, 2007, 14:01:

colombia has changed alot in 10 years, im 17 years old, i went to colombia this summer (to medellin&bogota) by myself from miami to colombia & back, & IM ALIVEEE ;] i mean anything can happen ANYWHERE , for example: VT Massacre, my point basically is its not as bad as it use to be i'm a born american citizen & both my parents are colombian, i'm the only one out of the 4 kids who wishes i could live in colombia, so i think that you shouldnt worry about it as much and let her go ;]

La Colombianita ; Cindy

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juanalejo says on Apr 23, 2007, 14:14:

Permit to Exit My understanding is that the permit to exit the country only applies to Colombian children, if they travel under a US passport the regulation will not apply. So do double check on that.

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coffee beaner says on Apr 23, 2007, 14:19:

Permit a must.... Even with a US passport they need a permit to leave the country, my 9 year old cousin with U.S. passport went to Medellin by himself last summer and he needed a permit from the Colombian consulate in NYC to leave Medallo. I think its stupid but they do need it.

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NataliaV says on Apr 23, 2007, 14:48:

She will have an awesome time! Last year my cousins whom are 11 and 12 traveled with my grandmother, aunt and me to Cali. It was my cousins and my first time (we are half colombian). We had the most awesome time and I am going back soon. We stayed with family there and of course they knew where to take us and where not to. You should definitely let her go now that she is still young. I have been wanting to go since I was a 12 years old. So finally when I was 24 I got the family together and we went. My cousins loved it and we felt just as safe as we do here in Baltimore. I wish my mom would have sent me there every summer as a little girl. I grew up very very close to my Colombian culture but never experienced seeing it for myself. A peice of me was missing. Now I go every chance I get and am learning to speak spanish.(my mom says she tried teaching me but I just refused to learn). I understand your fear (believe me I was just as scared the first time!) but please just have trust in your hubby's family and she will be fine.

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Simon says on Apr 23, 2007, 15:29:

Natalia,
Allow me to help Natalia,


Allow me to help you with your spanish...bella mujer, al ver tu rostro sonriente y hermoso, me inspiraste a escribirte este verso amoroso!

"Tu vas a ver, llegaras a mi edad y veras que Colombia seguira igual"-----Simon Sr.

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aztec says on Apr 23, 2007, 18:03:

Stefka "The real reason for my fear is yes, my husbands family is very wealthy
and the reason they left Colombia is that his baby brother was "picked up" from school (1975) and held until money was paid."

Frankly your statement gives me pause. The additional information provided may have changed my mind about the safety of the child. I assume your grandparents do not still have unfinished business with any criminal groups there.

We have also had family members and friends forced to leave Colombia. Most of them have not had the courage to return. There are many different groups and people capable of making extortion phone calls. Even the millionaire ride can happen to innocent people.

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Gator says on Apr 23, 2007, 18:50:

juanalejo Better to have it and NOT need it than to NOT have it and need it.

"Brevior Sltare Cum Deformibus Mulieribus Est Vita!" .

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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utopiacowboy says on Apr 23, 2007, 19:32:

The form looks good, Gator. Very similar to the one my wife had to have even though the kids' father is dead (we had an offical death certificate) and she was taking them out of the country. She had to have a notarized form giving herself permission from herself to take the kids. A real case of Me, Myself and I. Never underestimate the Colombian bureaucracy.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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utopiacowboy says on Apr 23, 2007, 19:37:

As to your question, look at it this way. Your husband is Colombian and your kid is Colombian too, so if they are kidnapped and spend a few years in the jungle or are killed, well, that was their destiny as Colombians. Probably a better fate than living with gringos in some gringo country that's not their own. Are you in tight with any of the armed factions in Colombia? Did the kids used to have sleepovers at Uncle Sal's house?

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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David in Idaho says on Apr 23, 2007, 19:45:

Come on UC You should probably use Man Tequila's rating system for that one. How about [BS] ?

http://poorbuthappy.com/colombia/node/23793 in case you missed it.

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utopiacowboy says on Apr 23, 2007, 19:48:

I was trying to reassure her that no matter what happens at least it'll be going down in their own country. Hell, that's the attitude the Colombians take, it's in God's hands.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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David in Idaho says on Apr 23, 2007, 19:50:

Actually, if the girl is only half Colombian, then half of her should probably make it back to the States to die.

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utopiacowboy says on Apr 23, 2007, 20:01:

Dude, there is no half Colombian. It's like being half pregnant. You're either Colombian or you're not.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Robert Jorge says on Apr 23, 2007, 21:27:

UC, come on. The OP doesn't know your sense of humor.

"There is no half Colombian." I don't get that. One of my buddies is half Colombian, half Irish ... both parents are from their respective motherlands. He doesn't refer to himself as Colombian or Irish. He seems pretty proud of both backgrounds. I would say he takes more from his father's side (Irish), because he is butt ugly. Before I am flamed, I am just kidding ... he lurks here now and again.

BEWARE of gold diggers.

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utopiacowboy says on Apr 23, 2007, 21:52:

In the case of your bud, I'd say he isn't Colombian at all. Just a gringo of mixed origin. Hell, look at the OP's husband. He's lived in the US thirty years and still not a citizen. He's drilled it into his daughter's head that she is a Colombiana, no more no less. Christ, he's probably still speaking Spanish. I don't see any half measures there.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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David in Idaho says on Apr 23, 2007, 22:07:

Duh, no one is saying that the dad is half Colombian He's obviously very proud of his hertiage and rightly so. But your callouse dismissal of the mother's contribution to her child's heritage is pretty disrespectful to the original poster, not to mention just plain wrong.

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utopiacowboy says on Apr 23, 2007, 22:14:

My callous dismissal? I don't see Dad telling the daughter that she's American or anything else except Colombiana. Not that I have a problem with that. When you're breeding animals like cattle or horses you want a bull or stallion that's prepotent, meaning that the genes he passes on are dominant and his offspring display his superior traits. A Colombian chip off the ol' block.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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webmanco says on Apr 23, 2007, 23:04:

have lots of fun Your daughter is lucky to have both of you as parents andwill learn a lot and will have lots of fun.

Naturaleza

Flor Laguna

Nevado

Vista

Otra vista

Laguna

Niños

Hermanos

Niño Cabo de la Vela

Niños Taganga

Niñas

Exploradores

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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goin_south says on Apr 23, 2007, 23:53:

I'd say, get him to get you some of the PURE SNOW AND, I THINK YOU'LL FEEL ALOT BETTER ABOUT BEING THERE.

Colombia; It's...a Party!

Where do we go from here?

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David in Idaho says on Apr 24, 2007, 05:59:

Dad can tell her anything he wants but that doesn't make it true. As a matter of fact, I have a horse from a prized stallion, pure Arab. But my little colt is only half Arab - actually 5/8 Arab, since the mare was 1/4 Arab, 1/4 Morgan, and half Appaloosa.

Kind of ironic, that the machistas who think women should be trained like animals (see other thread) aren't able to do the simple math involved with animal breeding.

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Stefka says on Apr 24, 2007, 06:15:

Hey guys, I love your discussion, and David from Idaho, thanks for your sweet energy and as far as Utopiacowboy, he's making me smile, I have a thick skin, and with forums like this we always need the person who pokes the bee hive, so to speak.

Utopiacowboy, my husband still speaks Spanish, of course, but his English is flawless, I must say he received an excellent education in Colombia before arriving to the states. Yes, Utopiacowboy her fate is always in Gods hands and each day when my children leave the house I have to take that attitude but I disagree with your statement that to die in Colombia is "Probably a better fate than living with gringos in some gringo country that's not their own." I do believe it is possible to be Half Colombian because that is what she is. My husband is Colombian but he is a bit of a mutt.......his Mothers roots European and his fathers came from native Colombian (indian)stock.
Many Colombians know this old story but the reason that his family got "mixed up" with criminal elements is because they had a lot of land.
Back in the day, My Father-in-law was approached and told that in one remote corner of his land, an airstrip was going to be built, When my Father-in Law said "No, not on my land"........thats when the youngest son was "picked up" from school. He is very proud of his heritage and I agree with David when he says "But your callouse dismissal of the mother's contribution to her child's heritage is pretty disrespectful to the original poster, not to mention just plain wrong."
My husband does call her Comombiana and always says to her and her younger sister that, Colombian girls are the most beautiful girls in the world. I think he could be right about that. Thanks Gator for the help with the letter, we signed papers with her passport but we were also told that we needed this letter, we need to sign and notarize it and then send it to the Superior court and have them double notarized it. Great photos, webmanco Although, our children were born in the US and I am an American, we kept their heritage alive in their names, they came in order Cecilia Hortensia, Juan Carlos, Liliana and Alvaro Ignacio. I like this group of folks.......I will have to turn my husband on to y'all.

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Stefka says on Apr 24, 2007, 06:25:

photos of my mutts: Keeko is Cecilia's nickname, she is the one with curly hair. The girl holding a bit of the rope in the group shot. Juan Carlos is standing with the white stripes on jacket and Liliana is girl standing with the funky dress on and the striped shirt.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/46254894 at N00/464798006/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/46254894 at N00/464798004/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/46254894 at N00/464797984/in/photostream/

The loves of my life!

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Persephone says on Apr 24, 2007, 08:14:

If you're that concenred... about her safety, why not just go with her? I promise nothing is going to happen to her and you will have a better imagine of colombia than the media portrays. Go with them and see for yourself.

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utopiacowboy says on Apr 24, 2007, 19:43:

"he is a bit of a mutt". Well we men are all dogs but hey.... And as I always say, mutts make the best dogs.

Very nice photos, Stefka. Some people are down on kids but I think kids are what make everything worthwhile. I know how you feel.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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griffbos says on Apr 29, 2007, 07:40:

It will be fine I just returned from my 4th trip to (Barranquilla)Colombia, your daughter should be fine there, my trips have been to Barrquilla and Medellin with side trips to El Peno, Santa Marta, Cartagena. I go around with friends and family when there who always look out for saftey. this last trip my friend took me to one of the poorest barrios of Barranquiila were he teaches english he was nervous taking me there but I found it fine and never felt unsafe. But hey I a white gringo who is fine walking late at night the streets of Boston.

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