HAAAAAAAAAY...La Carne No Sabe a Nada....

Gomezman5 says on May 6, 2005, 15:31:

itaguifun---Good point!!! I am a Colombian American. Most here know my history but I will repeat it for you in a nutshell. I was born in Colombia, but my parents brought me here very young. I'm in my mid 40's and have been a citizen since---late teens.

Ok, that being said, I can share some of your sentiments with the experiences I have with my own Colombian people. The funniest part about all their contentions about things being better in Colombia, is that hardly any of it is true. Ok, when it comes to the taste of food, that is a highly subjective area so if you grew up eating Chicken in Colombia, naturally you are going to think that Colombian chicken tastes better than American chicken. I hear that all the time about corn. In Colombia, they eat the large kernel corn, that to most Americans is horrible. It is the type we feed to our agriculture. On the other hand, Americans love Midwestern (most from Illinois, where I am from) sweet corn. American can't wait to eat sweet corn. What do my Colombian people say in Chicago? They hate the corn because they say....."It's too sweet." As they say, it's all a matter of taste---both literally and figuratively.

Maybe my people are like that because they are home sick.? Who knows? The schools? That is a joke. Sure the schools are better in Colombia if you can afford to send them to the better schools. There are no schools...none...nada of what we call magnet schools or science and engineering academies that are public schools. They exist, but they are all private.

How about health care? The other day, I visited a friend, a Colombian woman, in the hospital. She needed surgery. She was illegal/no papers. She was in the University of Chicago Hospital, which is one of the best hospital affiliated with one of the best universities in the world. Guess who is paying the bill? She got a Medicaid authorization since she had no insurance and no private funds to pay for this procedure. So, it's all the other American tax payers that are stuck with the tab. See, just try to get one of Bogota's top hospital's and doctor's to do that for one of their own Colombian people.....Not a chance.

You know what? They all gripe about how things are better in Colombia than they are in the USA. But, actions always speak louder than words...ALWAYS!! Where are these complainers living and reaping the benefits of living there? We all know the answer, but not many care to admit the truth.

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kernow62 says on May 6, 2005, 15:46:

Gomez could you explain how you go about getting this free medical care, I would like to tell a few of my American friends. I know one that is dying from cancer because she was refused treatment without insurance, too late for her, she has days left. Another died because he had no insurance and needed a heart transplant, too late. But I have others that really should get checked for various ailments but they are refused treatment, how do these illegals get around it. Please enlighten me.

I myself did get treated for a very serious life threatening condition, I had no money and they kindly let me make payments. However I was refused treatment until the condition got to the point where a neighbour drove me to the emergency room sweating like a pig, pale as a ghost just hours away from death.

So is just illegals who can get these perks or can any of us do this?

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Gomezman5 says on May 6, 2005, 16:18:

Kernow...I sense your sarcasm but...here is your answer Let's start with one basic question. Do you know what "Medicaid" is? It is NOT to be confused with Medicare. Medicare is a program, a form of national health insurance (socialized medicine---YIKES) that is for people over 65.

Medicaid is for America's indigent (poor). It is not for people who are working and are unable to get insurance through their jobs. It is literally for people who cannot afford health insurance because they don't have the assets (of any type) to pay for a medical service which may include dr bills, hospital stays, surgery, lab and alike. It is administered by each state even though it is a federally funded program. You usually need to have approval from the appropriate office and that approval is limited in coverage and is only for a certain duration. It will cover almost anything, as long as it is approved. It is NOT designed to be like regular health insurance which stresses prophylactic and preventative care. As far as to the particulars regarding obtaining coverage, you can look in Google and I am sure you will find you answer.

Now Kernow, if one is approved for Medicaid coverage.....(now it's run by the government....that socialism stuff again....so you have to go through the nonsense that all governmental structures put you through)you will get to go to the BEST hospitals in the Chicago area. Northwestern, Rush, U of C., Loyola U. and on and on and on. In fact Kernow, Northwestern's Woman’s hospital is one of the largest maternity hospitals in the world....and guess what????? Better than 25 % of it's patients are illegal Mexicans who get instant access by virtue of their ability to obtain Medicaid coverage for their care. Isn't that wonderful. How lucky they are to live in the USA. And guess what else? they get to share the same room with some American woman who is paying $650 a month for her health insurance.

Now Mr. Kernow, even if you cannot understand, or have any kind of where with all to obtain Medicare, our great USA,has free public hospital such as Cook County hospital. It is one of the greatest and most modern public hospital is the WORLD. The new cook county hospital opened less than 4 years ago. IT is totally FREE...with or without Medicaid. Every single major urban center in the country has a free public hospital that tends to its indigent. Here is it's web site:http://www.cchil.org/Cch/thenew.htm

It's mission is clearly stated:Despite a rapidly changing healthcare market, Cook County Hospital has remained steadfast in its public health mission as a safety net facility. It's medical care is first class and has the most modern technology medicine has to offer.

Well Kernow, now that I have enlightened you for the day, if you really know of any people who you feel just can't get a fair shake down in Orlando, if you are nice to me, send me a PM and I might just let you know how these people can come up to the great State of Illinois, The Land of Lincoln, and they too can partake in healthcare give away programs that you seem to know very little about.

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Gomezman5 says on May 6, 2005, 16:23:

By the way Kernow IN Colombia......

There is no Medicaid.

There is nothing that even remotely enters the realm of a Cook County
Hospital (A.K.A John Stroger Hosptal)can be viewed here:

http://www.ccbhs.org/pages/StrogerHospitalofCookCounty.htm

Sorry, but Colombia doesn not have a FREE hospital anywhere in it's geography like this place.

A FREE MRI in Colombia???? Yea right....tell me more funny stories

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platano says on May 6, 2005, 17:01:

G5, good to have you back! Regarding your comment: "Sure the schools are better in Colombia if you can afford to send them to the better schools."

According to ICFES the national test results of public schools in Colombia show 95% of students enter grade 9 at grade level.

You might compare this to a recent report of the National Association of School Principals which shows 70% of USA students enter grade 9 at below grade level.

I tried to compare national data for both public school systems, both measuring grade 9 performance. Unless I am reading the data incorrectly, this would indicate Colombian public schools are superior, i.e. they are educating a higher percentage of students to meet established grade level standards.

Plátano X, el banano verde, defensor de la colombianidad
Estudiante del Manual de Urbanidad y Buenas Maneras por Manuel Antonio Carreño
Oxigeno Verde ¡Libertad por Ingrid y los demás!

plátano

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kernow62 says on May 6, 2005, 17:16:

Hi Gomez, thanks for the explanation, I was not aware that every major metropolitan area had a hospital that treated anyone without ability to pay. I knew about Cook, it is very famous. I know Orlando isn't a major metropolitan area, but a GOOGLE search doesn't turn up any such hospitals, perhaps I am using the wrong search phrase. Help me locate one in Florida. Perhaps Miamimike can help me. With the economy the way it is I might need a free hospital one of these days.

The folks I was talking about are/were in the Toledo area. They are not dirt poor, they owned their own businesses and had pre-existing conditions that prohibited them affording health insurance.

I know this is a Colombia forum but I was not trying to compare the US with Colombia. I know absolutely nothing about the healthcare in Colombia except that the eye doctors are fantastic.

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platano says on May 6, 2005, 17:26:

Kernow62, you are correct about fantastic Colombian doctors... and not only eye doctors. Cardiologists, obstetricians, etc. because the Colombian education system produces fantastic physicians. And I am speaking of doctors educated in public grade schools and later at public universities like Universidad de Valle, not just to private schools and universities.

Plátano X, defensor de la colombianidad
Estudiante del Manual de Urbanidad y Buenas Maneras por Manuel Antonio Carreño
Oxigeno Verde ¡Libertad por Ingrid y los demás!

plátano

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Gomezman5 says on May 6, 2005, 17:54:

Platano....really? Statistics, statistics. I can explain away your explanation with ease. 9th grade ends.......and it all ends...
2 points

First, Colombian statistics are totally unreliable. As with any third world country, because of an ineffective, backwards, and let's not forget corrupt government apparatus, the Colombian government really has no idea how well it student are doing.

Second.You also distorted the issue here. I NEVER said that Colombian schools were no good. Did I? Platano, I swear you pull this again and again. You just don't quit. I know that Colombian schools are excellent...Here is the problem though Platano. Those statistics only take into account the students that actually have the financial ability to make it to the 9th grade. And therefore, of those that do make it to the 9th grade, the perform very well when compared to others of the same grade level. But what those statistics DO NOT SHOW, are how many 100s of thousand and perhaps millions of students that lack the financial ability to attend a school where they can obtain a high quality education in the first place. That is what I was talking about. Here, in the US, there are outstanding lower level (elementary) schools for FREE. That is not the case in Colombia. I don't know what world you are living in if you think that there are. And on top of that, there are also NO high school magnet, schools (in Colombia -post colegio) schools available for FREE. And what about University scholarships???? How about that Sr. Platano? Can you tell me how many economically disadvantaged attend Javariana or Los Andes, or Universidad Nacional??? Do you think that Colombia has the elaborate network of scholarships and grants that that the US has, that will allow an inner city high school graduate to go to Ivy league and related universities???

My point is that if you are going to make a comparison, make one apple for apple, and not apples for oranges. Don't distort what I say. You will never convince anyone that there are more OPPORTUNITES for a child lacking $ to get an education in Colombia versus the opportunities available in the US....

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dwmte says on May 6, 2005, 17:59:

kernow... i think the county general hospital in orlando is orlando regional.

check with the local health dept to find out which is the county general hospital.

after a debilitating injury at work, i was awarded medicaid services due to the complete nature of my injury. as mr. gomez pointed out, one has to go through the dept of children and families and fill out all the papers and forms, etc. but if one qualifies, they receive it. no matter where they are from. it was a life saving support system for us, after loosing my physical health. i receive my early social security and a small disability (medicaid).

if your friends are aliens, the hospitals are not in the deportation business and 'illegals' need not worry about i.n.s. issues.

dw

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Gomezman5 says on May 6, 2005, 18:02:

Kernow....Miamimike will know this well I know him and have talked to him a few times. I am sure if you PM he would be happy to communicate with you too. I remember we debated this issue before. It seems you know an endless number of people who in this position (without insurance yet in need of medical care)

I am fairly sure that Jackson Memorial in Miami (another excellent hosptial) is a quasi public hospital. I am %95 sure that it has a high number of medicaid patients. Check with Mike

And, as far as Cook County is concerned, there is not a hospital ANYWHERE in Colombia....not one, that will compare to the quality of physicians, and the technology of Cook County Hospital here in Chicago. The doctors/residents compete intensely from the best Medicial schools in the world, to come and do their residencies and internships at Cook County. It is reknowned. It has the best emergency trauma unit in the city. And the best burn units in the WORLD. Accross the board, department by department, it excells like few other hospitals

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kernow62 says on May 6, 2005, 18:45:

Yes, Gomez I know you two chat on the phone. ;-)Talk about the odd couple. I hope he won't mind communicating with a liberal like me.

I wish I knew about Medicaid when I had my problems it could have saved me a bundle of money. Talk about feeling royally screwed. I went to the hospital DW mentioned and nobody mentioned squat about such a program they just said we will take $60 from your paycheck for the next century until you pay it off.

DW the folks I mentioned are both US citizens, born and raised in Toledo.

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BxUnika says on May 6, 2005, 18:46:

Illegals Are you insinuating that he is lying? Well, I am from NY and they have certain clinics and hospitals where you pay $15 and it's something like an insurance card at that particulat hospital/clinic. If you know how to work the system, it's there.

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kernow62 says on May 6, 2005, 18:57:

BxUnika "Are you insinuating that he is lying?" Who are you directing it at and about what?

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Mecaseconuncartagenero says on May 6, 2005, 19:39:

I agree and disagree, itaguifun.... Actually, let me start with... when I was reading you article at the beginning I thought it was going to strike some nerves with my opinions, but then, it got better.... Then It got worse again. I agree with you in the aspects that comparing countries is stupid because you can't really compare two completely different countries.. The ways the people think and act aren't stupid or "weird" (as people from the US seem to think). They are just two different cultures. Respect that. THAT I agree with...
now on the other hand.... I most certainly do not agree with the last two paragraphs of your entry. I don't understand how someone who had just spoken about respecting cultures and different countries could say something like that. I see nothing wrong with flying their flag in the united states. I feel as if someone should never forget from where they come. As a woman from the united states, north carolina, to be more specific, if a person wants to hang their native countries flag in their car, so what? Why does that offend you so much? My husband is from Colombia and I, myself, have dedicated my life to studying foreign languages and cultures. One thing I have learned is to be openminded and to celebrate diversity.
And for my last comment, I would like to say when someone asks me where I'm from, I do not say AMERICA. I do no say America because I too feel that America is such a vague term. I say the United States of America. It wouldn't be so bad if some people from the United States actually knew that Colombia, Guatemala, Chile, Mexico, and yes, even Canada and the Bahamas are all indeed in the Americas. It seems that maybe if there were not so many prejudice and ignorant, hardheaded people in the United States that just saying America might be ok for me. But... unfortunately, it's not. Let's not even get into the fact that most of the people from the US are not even true AMERICANS anyway. When in fact a lot more people from South America, Mexico and Central America have TRUE AMERICAN BLOOD. For those who don't understand what I mean by true american blood, I mean native americans. YES, people, I said Native American, not indian. Thank you.

And by the way....I would hang a colombian flag proudly in my car or on my porch right beside my flag from the united states. Because my husband is a part of who am i as well.....


Julie Perez :)

Julie Perez :)

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Tinto (Moderator) says on May 6, 2005, 20:11:

About that flag thing Just make sure the U.S. and Colombian flags are of equal size and flown at equal heights. Otherwise, the Boy Scout down the street or maybe even Kofi Annan might come after you for violating the U.S. Code or an international agreement. On the other hand, if the U.S. is ever at war with Colombia, it appears your favorite country is allowed to hold the superior position (bigger flag or flown higher). ;-)



www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html

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Gomezman5 says on May 6, 2005, 20:50:

As to the flag stuff........ Here in Chicago, we have rival the diversity of New York. Inasmuch as well have huge Latino culture from all over Latin America. We also have a large Asian community, Greek community, Arab Community, Eastern European community from all countries, but especially Poland. In fact, Chicago is the second largest populated city in the world. The largest Polish city is of course, in Poland. but no other polish city has as many Poles as Chicago......strange huh? But then again, Chicaog, has the third largest populated city of Mexicans.....behind 1. Mexico City and 2. Los Angeles.

OK that being said, one can see that at various times of the year, flags are flown all over the place. But, I must admit, for some reason or another nobody displays their flags to the extent that the Latino people do that. The greeks don't. The Poles don't. The Koreans don't.

So, we Latin people are proud. We miss our contries. And even though we live here, it is the one way can identfy, even if for only a moment,a day, or in the case of the Puerto Ricans and Mexicans, a week or two, with our home lands.

Interestingly enouugh, Colombians in Chicago as a general rule do NOT want to display their flags in the car. Like the rest of the world, the Chicago Police Department has their pre concieved notions about Colombian people. So when the police see the flag, they give the car an extensive look over, and thus making it much more likely to get pulled over for some silly infraction, and thus giving them the right to search the vehicle. My advise.....keep the Colombian flag out of the car

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Lionheart says on May 6, 2005, 21:00:

South Carolina flags In front of the capitol of SC the Confederate flag was flying higher than the US flag until recently. Now it had to get moved away and is now flying even higher on its own pole in a more prominent position, but is politically correct now.

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Rubiazo says on May 6, 2005, 21:42:

First off I know nothing about hospitals or medicine in Colombia BUT

1) Anybody who has eaten ANYTHING in Colombia AND in the USA and doesnt think colombian food is worlds better has no taste in food at all. The US has the WORST food out of any nation on earth, hands down!! Especially the meat and the fruit. I go crazy trying to find meat that doesnt make me sick to my stomach here, and I've only ever been in Colombia 6 days of my 31 years of life! (the beef and chicken are actually even better in Brazil BTW.)

1.5) Many of the chronic health problems in this part of the world are directly related to the poor quality of the food, including all the obesity, heart disease, prostate cancer, osteoperosis etc. Once again, anybody who thinks there is nothing wrong with the food here, I don't even know what to say to them. You may not know this, but new immigrants to the USA from other countries frequently get sick as hell for 2-3 months on coming here from the crap fucking food we eat!!

2) All Latin Americans in the USA bitch about this, not just Colombians. Its a very common topic here.

3) My ex-wife and both my parents are full-time career educators in public schools in the US and Canada. My uncle is a former superintendent. They all agree on how bad the state of education is here. This is another area in which the US comes in DEAD LAST in the world. It is fucking ridiculous to deny this. We do the WORST on all standardized tests. It is something that should make every American ashamed! And Canada is maybe only slightly ahead of the US. I'm not strictly defending the Colombian school system, more like I'm disgusted with the situation of the schools here, where I have two small children rapidly approaching school age.

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Gomezman5 says on May 6, 2005, 22:06:

Rubiazo Just for the record............Where are you from ?

You did not mention that.

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Gomezman5 says on May 6, 2005, 22:38:

Hey Mario I think I am on the same page is you. This guy is ...... a bit Rubiazo, is somewhat unbalanced.

The part about the meat really threw me. I guess the USDA went out of business. And all the refrigerated trucks and cases in the stores don't operate anymore. So everyone is getting sick from the meat in the US.

And in Colombia, the country where you have to hope that the meat from the time of slaughtering to the time it gets to the market you bought it from, remained in the fridg, so you don't get poisoned,,,,,,,this is just too much.

I have been out of here for a while....and I am starting to come back. Then comes this character. Between the femnists, far right liberals, anti American bashing, (like here) and utterly nonsensical statements, (like here), I don't know what to think.

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platano says on May 6, 2005, 23:15:

G5, "You also distorted the issue here. I NEVER said that Colombian schools were no good. Did I? Platano, I swear you pull this again and again. You just don't quit."

Is this some kind of "ad hominem" attack on me? I did not distort anything or put any words in your mouth.

What I did was copy and paste your exact words and then refute them with national education statistics from the Colombian government.

The ICFES exam (which I did take) does measure how well students are doing. It was not an easy exam and covered several different academic areas.

plátano

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miamimike says on May 6, 2005, 23:45:

On US Health Care.. Not staying long tonight. Here in Miami, the Public Trust Hospital is Jackson Memorial. If you are an undocumented immigrant or an uninsured citizen you can go in for three days and then they give you the boot and a bag of pills. iF IT IS LIFE THREATING-Cancer, Heart attack-they will treat you--but if you have anything they will come after it-for sure.If you are flat broke-then you can go on Medicaid and be treated. Got to clarify ONE misunderstanding--WE here in the USA do NOT have a Coherent Health Care System as known in other countries--the word system applies only to the Over 65 age bracket and this is Medicare. This is a standerized System. The rest of the US Healthcare is a mix of who knows what-NOTHING is standard---some have private insurance, some pay cash, some have medicaid, forms are all different, Nonstandard prices for Medications and Operations--even in the same city and neighborhoods--different forms--GIVE me a Break!!! Get this--a poor non insured, cash paying patient pays more for an operation then a Rich Millionaire Insured Patient--this make sense??? Fair?? We have more personal Bankruptcy filings due to unpaid hospital Bills resulting from unexpected Illnesses then anything else. We need some serious reform here-our medical non system is the thing that is broke-not SS as is being pushed now. Anyone miss a SS check lately?? No, not that I know of I do know that close to 45,000,000 as in Million Americans have no Health Insurance NOW-here in Florida about 3,000,000 have no insurance--Broken by any yardstick! In Miami alone -580,000 have NO insurance !! Its not that many would not like to have it--they simply cannot afford it. Daily, you read many large indusrties like the airlines,factories are doing away with health insurance altogether or passing a larger share of the bill to employees as copays ect.I know for myself, last time I priced Blue Cross/Blue Shield as a private buyer-=-it would have cost me from $900-$1100 monthly. This was WITHOUT any pre-existing conditions--if I was burdened with Diabetes, Hypertension, I would NOT be able to buy it even at these Rare Oxygen Prices. Now for the good part-I had my Dentist in Bogota price Private Insurance for me-I told her-I want the BEST Plan --total monthly cost was around $65 monthly--included hospital stays, surgeon fees,Labs, Xrays. Meds, Dental, Optical--the whole 9 yards medically speaking. Just a little Disparity--$65 monthly VS $900-$1100. What does it tell you about the philosphy of the differences US vs Colombian insurance companies. I know there are factors such as the peso exchange, salaries but a 1000% difference in prices...Something is drastically wrong when many need and WANT to buy Health insurance but simply cannot at prices asked here in the US. Who is to blame and what is the solution??

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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Gomezman5 says on May 6, 2005, 23:54:

Platano....I have no idea what you are getting at??? Really.

My point was simple and very true. And that comment essentially was that children have access to a better free education in the US than they do in Colombia. Telling me that 9th graders in Colombia are academically at grade level to a greater degree than their US counter parts is irelelvant.

In general, the US has a good system of free public education. Colombia does not.

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Gomezman5 says on May 7, 2005, 00:13:

I agree Mike but you validated my point about Jackson Memorial. It too is an excellent hospital. I think it is affiliated with University of Miami Medical School. But my point to Kernow was simple. If you have no money, and no assets, and you need acute medical care, which would include, heart, cancer and related problems, you can get medicaid coverage and treatment at this hospital....which is a very good hospital.

The fact that people are going bankcrupt is a totally different issue. People who have no money or no savings,or don't own any property don't have anything to lose. And for those who go bankrupt, it's not the end of the world. Is it? They accumulate debt and then they are discharged from paying for it. Is that so bad? Do you think this happens in our beloved Colombia?

One more thing you neglected to point out. If people would carry major medical insurance, they would not have that problem to begin with. I know of at least three different people that have their own business and are healthy and say to me that they don't need major medical ins. I warn them of the day that something unexpectedly happens to their health. These people have money for nice cars, for expensive vacations, fine clothes and.....in the case of one guy I know, expensive prostitutes. But they don't buy health insurance. In my opinion, if they get sick and they get stuck with a big med bill, they should NOT have the right to escape those debts.

Me myself, I have the best major medical money can buy. I am in a group plan with 43,000 people. I have my major med (hospital, lab, diagnostic, etc. paid at %90, my dr bills at %90, an annual deductible of only $250, and here is the best part, a maximum annual out-of-pocket expense of $800...after that everything is paid at %100. Policies like that are never sold to individuals on the open market.....unless you want to pay $1500 a month....and that is assuming you are in good health.

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colombiche101 says on May 7, 2005, 00:39:

It is hard to leave your homeland... ....but sometimes you have to. Wouldn't it be wonderful if everybody could just live where they were born and not have to go through the traumatic experience of being uprooted???? Sure, but unfortunately, Colombia has a long way to go in terms of providing all its sons and daughters with equal opportunity. A country with great potential, but in dire need of improvement in many areas. I am Colombian and I have to admit we have to work hard at making our country a better place to live (in many ways at least).

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Rubiazo says on May 7, 2005, 06:09:

The meat may be refrigerated But it's full as hell of antibiotics and other chemicals. They also feed cows bits of other dead cows here. Somehow I don't think this is part of their natural diet. Even places that sell the best quality free range beef almost never feed the cows GRASS (which is exactly what they are supposed to be eating),instead they are fed corn and grain. Everywhere you go in Latin America, cows are allowed to age naturally and allowed to eat their natural diet. So the meat has much more flavor, way higher levels of micronutrients, and NO TOXINS.

Don't even get me started on the chicken. Just google it; I would think all this stuff is common knowledge.

BTW I'm from Canada. Lived in NYC since 1997, probably not here for much longer.

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Caballista says on May 7, 2005, 06:36:

Flavors I agree, plus cows can walk freely to exercise and give better flavor to the meat.

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Miguel says on May 7, 2005, 07:27:

On Food Take a look at the obesity rate in the US, and the widespread "juicing" that is rampant in both the beef and poultry industry. I seldom eat red meat, and when I do, it is in Colombia in a restaurant that serves Argentinian beef. I do find the chicken in Colombia fresher and tastier.

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Cousin says on May 7, 2005, 07:28:

I can Explain how illegals and other get free medical! You go to a hospital, They have to service you there if you claim to be ill.

In the hospital they ask you for your insurance and you claim you have none. They ask you for you name and social security number, you state your name (or a name) and claim not to have a social security number.

They set you up with a social worker who assists you in filling out the paper work to be filed with the proper Federal, State and local government agencies.

From there you get your health care, the hospital get to over charge the governments and the American tax payer gets shafted again.

I know how this works because in 2000, the new millenium, I "helped" pay for three of my friends to be born in the US. One, an illigal Brazillian; the second another illigal Brazillian who had twins and the third a USC from Puerto Rico who tried to pay for the baby on her own but 7-months into the pregnancy could not afford it anymore and had to ask for the help. Her husband a citizen of Guatemala who received his residency from my friend did little her pay for HIS baby to be born in the US.

Update: the two Brazillians the one without the twins, is not legal but the baby is still being taken care of by the govenment. The one with the twins has not yet become legal but the US people are still paying for the babies. The babies father is in a sham for papers marriage that he claims was only to get him papers, but he does little to help out financially with the babies. While the US citizen from Puerto Rico, is still paying for the first seven months of her pregnancy and still not getting help from her husband. (She did not file sooner into the pregnancy because she was afraid she would lose her house if she did.)

A great country AMERICA. All for the other and none for US!

Los Cuatro

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critter says on May 7, 2005, 08:04:

The Colombian government is now offering ... la seguridad social, which is a form of medicaid, for those who can't afford to pay for insurance. It pays 50% of all medical related costs and medicines, and office visits are free.. A bunch of my novia's (she'll be my esposita on May 19th) relatives just received their cards last week.

"Spending eternity in a bad place is a long time!"

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critter says on May 7, 2005, 08:21:

Free coursework too Also, those who live en stratas 1-3 are eligible, o sea favorecidos, to take courses in skilled-trade fields; la matricula is paid for by the government, but the students are responsible other supplies/materials. I must say I'm rather impressed with many of the positive policy changes made within the Colombian goverment. I can see Colombia as a serious player in the global market, relative to exporting oil, clothing, and furniture. Also, I predict a boom in tourism in Colombia en the next 5 years...

"Spending eternity in a bad place is a long time!"

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Gomezman5 says on May 7, 2005, 08:33:

Cousin......I'm glad you are verifying What I have been saying all along. Illegals, come here and obtain the beneifts that they could never in a million years obtain in Colombia. Some of these clowns make Colombia seem like its this fantasy world when it comes to life. I bothers me to no end, and it should bother every other American tazpayer the same way, how we have carry the load for those who do not belong in this country in the first place.

Why should Cigna health care pay the hospital $1300 a day for me for a semi private room and the illegal guy in the other bed has medicaid paying my tax dollars for his medical care? Does Colombia do that? No answer need. Now why do I pay 1300 a day? Because government/Medicaid only pays the hospital a fraction maybe $400 a day for the same room. My insurance has to pay for the small amount that government pays.

One minor point I have to correct you on Cousin. You can get emergency /acute care in an emergency room if you have no insurance. They can and do refuse people every day for those that come for chronic conditions or preventitive medicine. In other words, if they determine that you truly are not in need of medical care, they can show you the sliding door just as fast or faster then you came in there.

But on the whole, you are correct.....only in the USA.

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Gomezman5 says on May 7, 2005, 08:46:

Tinto ...you are correct But most of these brain trusts here never heard of the USDA. I made exactly that contention above in my initial post. It is shocking what these people write here. It irritates me to no end....guys like this Rubazio character who has us believing that we are all being poisoned to death with American meat. When I go to Colombia, my friend literally goes to the market to get his meat every day because of the unreliability and poorly controled meat storage facilities. He says you never know how long the meat was sitting out, or if the old refrigerated truck broke down.

Also, at least in this country, if you eat bad meat, you can call up the health department of the City of Chicago is out there the next day! They check everything. They issue extremely expensvie citations. If they find that the fridg is not adequately cool enough. It is a minimum of $500 for each count on a first offese. More counts, or more than the first offense is even more. I know this because I represent people in health code violations. On top of that, you call your lawyer, he sends a letter to the establishment, he threatens to sue, and the next thing you know, the restaurants's insurance company is cutting a check for $1500 because you had stomach ache. Ask any of these "Colombia is better" geniouses when this happens in Colombia???

You know what, from what I have been reading here, the author of this thread, was write and some of the posts have proved as such. Colombian s come here and complain and complain, but they quickly learn to live like Americans, reap the benefits of Americans, take advantage of legal redress like Americans ---- they love it here....they stay here!! Yet, they alwyays give thes cock and bull stories about how much things are better than Colombia....

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kernow62 says on May 7, 2005, 08:57:

Gomez, what do you mean only in the USA, almost any country in Western Europe or even Canada the same thing will happen regarding treatment of the poor who cannot afford it. Some of those countries have taken in more people from other countries per capita than the US.

Nobody likes paying for others, I personally don't like paying for schools, I don't have kids, but I have to do it. I don't like paying for a military that is out of control but I do pay up, so we will pay for the poor to be cared for. We will not like it, but eventually we will die and then it won't matter.

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ColombianoX says on May 7, 2005, 09:54:

"The other thing I noticed about the "ugly Colombians"(this is not exclusively colombians but many other uglies also) they ALWAYS fly the Colombian flag here in the USA..outside the house is the most offensive, however, the rearview is another prime spot. It was funny, when I was in Colombia I don't recall seeing ANY Colombian flags flying from houses or hanging from inside cars."

itaguifun,

Why are you so offended by seeing the colombian flag displayed in the US? Aren't you married to a colombian? Then why the animosity towards our flag? You sir, come off as nothing but some xenophobic redneck!! I''D LOVE TO SEE YOU COME AND TELL ME TO TAKE MY COLOMBIAN FLAG OFF MY CAR! POBRECITO!!

And I don't know where you were in Colombia, because a campaign called "Siente Tu Bandera, Cree En Tu País" (Feel Your Flag, Believe In Your Country) was recently launched asking colombians to proudly display the colombian flag. I saw on Caracol TV how many street vendor are now even selling many flag-related items, from t-shirts to bracelets.


------------------------------------------------------------------

"By the way to all concerned the correct adjective describing a citizen of the United States of America is....
AMERICAN
I had some ASSH.... Colombian customs guy go off when he asked what nationality I was and I said American. He said "I'm american too..South American" yeah OK..Whatever. That guy would NEVER and I mean NEVER ID himself as anything but Colombian."

All that customs guy did was educate you about the meaning of the word 'American', which describes all of us who live in this hemisphere, and you call him an a-hole for it? You complain about "ugly tourists", but who was the ugly tourist there?

I suggest you read Mecaseconuncart' post again. That lady sure sounds like a class act. You could learn a thing or two from her.


ColombianoX

'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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utopiacowboy says on May 7, 2005, 10:10:

I love this site. So much nonsense and so little time to read it. Does anyone posting on this thread about the respective education systems actually have ANY children? I thought not. I have four children educated in US public schools. I have 3 Colombian stepchildren who are now going to US public schools but who previously had been attending a private school in Colombia. Why? Because their mother said that frequently Colombian public schools have no textbooks and that if you want a good education in Colombia you pretty much have to send your kid to private school. My Colombian stepchildren are holding their own in school and doing well especially having to learn a new language. Are they the Einsteins of their respective schools? No. What can we conclude? It's hard to make generalizations but the Colombian private schools seem to do a good job. It helps to have intelligent motivated children.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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kat1 (Moderator) says on May 7, 2005, 11:06:

I went to private school in C my sisters and I went to private school in Colombia but my younger sister didn't finish in a private school, she finish in a public one,the "Camilo Torres" this is a good school for being a public school,The Inem is another good public school, yes there are bad public schools but not all of them.

BTW la Coca cola aqui sabe a feo ;-)

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Desideria (Moderator) says on May 7, 2005, 11:07:

utopia, I haven't posted in this thread but I have plenty of experience in the field of education, Colombia, USA and Scandinavia, both as mother of two children who have gone to school in all these three places and as an educator who has taught school in all these three places.

The Scandinavian high school graduates are often admitted directly to the second year of college in the States since their basic high school curriculum and levels are so broad and high that it would be a waste of their time to make them study the first year. I know personally several who have done that.

The public schools in USA vary widely in the quality of education, my kids went to two different elementary schools within the same town in Florida; one of them was much better than the other. After that they attended a Catholic private school in Chicago, much better than the two public schools in Florida. They did high school in Sweden and at that point I ave no direct point of comparison, since I have never taught high school in the States, but I suspect that the levels vary in quality.

My kids went to a private elementary school in Colombia for a short while. The level of academics was much higher than the US schools they had gone before. The poor kids had been learning their first multiplication tables in Chicago and in Cali they were doing long divisions! (Just an example)

I had always been under the impression that the lower education (elementary) pushed academics much harder than the equivalent US schools and even the high schools in Colombia had more advanced math (plus that it was not optional). Just looking at the curriculum in any Colombian high school gives you the impression that much more is required from Colombian students to graduate from high school than in USA.

I believe the higher education in USA probably holds a better overall level than colleges and universities in Colombia.

Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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Gomezman5 says on May 7, 2005, 11:53:

Kernow....wait a minute Free public education is one thing. Also, in europe, you have socialized medicine throughout the continent. The US does not have socialized medicine, and most people do not want it. If I have to pay for my health insurance, so should everyone else in this country. Period. And I certainly don't believe that illegals should be entitled to any form of health care when they don't belong here in the first place. Almost everyone on this forum should support that. When you consider all the effort and time one has to go through just to lawfully obtain a visa for the person you love and want to marry (or at least contemplating marrying) why should anyone believe that people who entered this country or overstayed their visas should be entitled to any of the bendifits that lawful people are entitle to ?

Your school comparison is not the issue. I own my condo, and a 2 other condos for investment purposes. My property taxes are high and you can ask any American where a majority go their property tax bill goes. it does not go to their local municipality, or the state, or the library district....it goes to their local board of education. I pay over $6000 a year, every year, to support public education. And if it makes no difference if I have 10 kids in school, or none (I have none by the way) your tax bill is the same. I as an American taxpayer, like most americans, realize that there is a vested interested in having an educated populace. Don't mesh that idea with me paying for someone else's health care......especially an illegal person's health care. Don't combine 2 totally unrelated issues

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poco says on May 7, 2005, 11:53:

Healthy Chickens Seriously,, don’t eat those dead chickens from the Colombian grocery store. The woman I’m with WILL NOT buy a chicken from the grocery store. She will buy a grown chicken on the hoof but usually raises them. I need a picture of a live and clucking fat chicken in a plastic grocery bag. They seem to like being carried in a bag.

Just where were those chickens before they died? How did they die? Maybe died from sickness? Very little, if any, inspection for the prepared Chickens. Ugggg. Get a fresh one on the hoof that you personally raised. Same with fish, go fishing.

Casa Pollo

Raising Chickens in Colombia

Some posts are accurate in this thread. Others,,, written by the Clueless.

PS: Harris county Texas has one better. Free clinics and prescription drugs for $2.00 USD. Just go down and sign up to get a card. Not to mention help with filling out the Medicad forms. Need dialyses,, no problem, available at many of the Hospitals in the Medical Center. BTW: The medical center is the largest grouping of Hospitals in the WORLD. Nice to see someone here has good information, other than how to be illegal in Colombia and get away with it.

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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Gomezman5 says on May 7, 2005, 11:59:

Just for the record....... I have the Colombian flag proudly displayed in my office next to "Old Glory". I also have a map, of Colombia hanging in my office. Sometimes, in the middle of the day, I sit back and day dream a bit......wishing I was there doing.....whatever and visiting my family.

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itaguifun says on May 7, 2005, 11:59:

Colombianox(not AMERICANOX) point made Your name says it all-

I saw no flags in Cali last month except at public and gov't buildings. The fact that there is a campaign underway for Colombians to touch themselves while they hang their flag is proof that NOBODY gave a shit.

As far as the jackass at customs "educating me" I think not. I will try to make this as clear as possible for our "special" readers:

While technically the "customs Jackass" (who will heretofore be referred to as simply "Jackass") was correct, his statement that he was South American was insufficiently specific. South American describes people and things from various countries including Colombia.

People and things from Colombia are referred to as "Colombian" denoting a specific geopolitical area.
To highlight Jackass' fallacious argument we could also refer to Colombians as "earthlings" however, again it is insufficiently specific in a more glaring sense.
"American" is the adjective used to describe people and things from the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Once again, technically saying "North American" would be correct and is used to describe certain things such as NAFTA. However, it is insufficiently specific to describe people and things specifically from the USofA, for it would include Canada, Mexico and Central American countries.

So for our first assignment COLOMBIANOX- can you pick out the word that would describe somebody or something from Canada?
1. mexican
2. north american
3. colombian
4. CANADIAN
How about-pick out the word that would describe somebody or something from the United States of AMERICA
1. North american
2. South American
3. AMERICAN
4. Mexican

In both of the previous examples North American would be insufficient since there is more than 1 country from North america as a possible answer.

As far as me being the "ugly tourist", I suppose ColombianoX found great offense at my stating AMERICAN, when asked my nationality. If that is an "ugly tourist" I must plead guilty. I wonder how Jackass and ColombianoX would react if I got off the plane waving an American flag and started telling everybody what a shithole Colombia is and that the US is better in every conceivable way-which I would never do or want to do(as many immigrants here in the US do). The reason I would not "fly my flag" in a foreign land is that I believe that it is disrespectful to the host country.

Since you brought my Colombian wife into the discussion AmericanoX WHOOOPS SORRY ColombianoX her exact quote NOT MINE: "Yo puedo limpiar me con esta hijueputa bandera y me quede cagada"

Finally about your buddy a few posts back. She sounds like a well intentioned but misguided apologist for being an American. I want to see if she still bows at the alter of "diversity" when her Colombian husband gives her "cuernos". Those Colombian flags will be a burnin'. And her argument that Native Americans should be called Americans-just flat out ignorant. Those cultures would prefer to be addressed by their traditional names (chibcha, maya..etc)However as a political force they chose to be called Native Americans.

As far as your "Pobrecito tough guy routine" save the bullshit for when you are face to face with someone tough guy.

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Gomezman5 says on May 7, 2005, 12:09:

UTC --- As ussual...you are right on target Furthermore UTC, you are one of the few people on this site that I can honestly say I agree with 99.9% of the time. In fact I can't remember not agreeing with one of your posts. But, I just thought I would give myself that 1/10 of 1 % in case there was a time I disagreed but I just can't remember when

This place is so full of nonsensical pin heads. Compariing the public educations system in Colombia to that of the US is like comoparing gold to tin. Such an idiotic coparison. Like you said, and I said about three times already in this thread, if you want a decent education at ANY level in Colombia, you HAVE TO send your kid to a public school.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on May 7, 2005, 12:13:

gomez "Like you said, and I said about three times already in this thread, if you want a decent education at ANY level in Colombia, you HAVE TO send your kid to a public school."

Sorry?
Did I misunderstand you? Certainly there are some public schools in Colombia with a good level of education, but any level? Public schools?
Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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Gomezman5 says on May 7, 2005, 12:18:

Desi..... "I believe the higher education in USA probably holds a better overall level than colleges and universities in Colombia."

The above is your quote Desi.

"Probably better" In regards to education at the university level, that issue is not even open for debate. In fact, is addition to European universities, India and the parts of Asia have programs that rival the US. Nothing anywhere in Latin America does. Why do you think that almost all of the foreign educated doctors, nurses, engineers and computer people come from either Asia or India. When you consider just how large Latin America is, and you consider its contributions in terms of people coming here to work in the professions, the numbers almost drop into negative territory. I live in Chicago, and I do not know 1 doctor or Engineer from Mexico....not one. Yet I know more than 10 doctors from India alone.

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ColombianoX says on May 7, 2005, 12:22:

Itaguifun,

You still don't get it. You can call yourself "american" or whatever you want when you are in the USA. But YOU WERE IN COLOMBIA when the incident with the customs official occured and for colombians (as well as most other latin americans) the term 'american' has a different meaning than in the USA! If you were speaking to him in spanish, you should have said 'estadounidense' for him to have understood what you meant. Don't blame him for your lack of spanish!

And to tell you the truth I wouldn't feel offended if you proudly displayed a US flag while in Colombia, since you are a (US) american! Most colombians wouldn't care either. Colombians are very open minded about those things, too bad some (US)americans like you aren't.


ColombianoX

'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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Gomezman5 says on May 7, 2005, 12:23:

Poco......that is exactly my point.....If the USDA imposed their strict requirement in Colombia, have the chicken and meat establishments would be gone over night.

And like I said above, the USDA's role in the overall process of assuring us that the food is safe to eat is minimum at best. Most of the control is done locally by the various health departments that exist at the local level

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itaguifun says on May 7, 2005, 12:29:

So let me get this straight...CX If my name is John in the US I should be "Juan" in Colombia?

BTW-I find it hard to believe that I wouldn't have ANY repercussions if I hung an American Flag outside my house in Colombia. I still feel it is distasteful-as the cat in the hat would say:

I don't like it here
I don't like it there
I don't like it anywhere

Gomez has a flag in his office-that's different-personal space that's much more tasteful.

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kernow62 says on May 7, 2005, 12:32:

The point is Gomez the two issues, healthcare and eductation are far from unrelated. You are not only paying for the medical needs of poor illegals you are paying for poor Americans as well. Do you have a problem with the latter? Same with education, you tax money goes to educate the illegal as well as American public. I don't see the difference.

If you want to put a halt to illegal imigration and I agree it is a problem, a big problem you must convince American employers not to employ anyone without a social security card (you will not do that in a capitalist society where the bottom line is profit) the illegals with social security cards can work and pay taxes but cannot reap the benefits, tax refund etc. They will be adding to the tax collection without tapping into it. The social security card will keep tabs on them and when you feel they are getting more than their share you can boot them out.

There problem solved.

No comment on the US education system, suffice to say I have seen much better.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on May 7, 2005, 12:32:

gomez, yes, I said that, but that's not the issue. I'm talking about the lower grades, the primary schools, the elementary education. I didn't understand your point about the public schools in Colombia compared with the public schools in Colombia. There's no question about the facilities, school supplies, teachers salaries and such, I'm well aware of the material advantage the public schools in USA have compared with those in Colombia. However, my own experience from the States does not support the statement that the elementary education in the States would have a higher academic quality *at any level*.

Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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Gomezman5 says on May 7, 2005, 12:36:

Des.... Of course I am speaking in general....There may very well be some good public schools in Colombia....but they are so few and far between, it's not even worth you making that point. Please Des, you seem to live in this exagerated state when it comes to the way things work in Colombia. I lived in Bogota, I have many friend that are literally quite poor...south siders. The one good thing about us Rolos is that we don't get into this strat stuff as much as other parts of Colombia. If you are poor.......and I mean POOR, and you live on the side side of Bogota, you
can't find a good public school anywhere no way no how and of course if you are poor, you are lucky if you have a "pot to pis in" so the last thing you are even thinking about is whether you can find a decent public school to send your children to. Here in the states, if your child has hope, even though he may be coming from a dysfunctional family, the public schools will move him to a magnet school, they will give him FREE bus service to get him there and back, in the hope that the child will excel in a different enviornment, with more motivated students. Do you think there are any free math and science academies, or technical academies, or magnet schools in Cali????? If you think so, then either you had some good dreams, or you lived in a different Colombian then the one I know all too well. Did you read Utopia's post above, he says it all short and sweet, the public schools in general are THE PITS....(In Colombia) Don't tell me about the 1 in 5o that may
make the radar screen

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Desideria (Moderator) says on May 7, 2005, 13:00:

We're still not talking about the same thing Utopia's comments about the public schools in Colombia are based on a very narrow pool of information; that of his wife's. I don't mean any disrespect but I'm well aware that many, maybe most Colombians have this idea of their educational system, however, having been an educator in Colombia and worked the field I must disagree, if even so slightly.

My own experiences of the public primary schols in USA are of varying quality. I'm not talking about the the few gifted children that are removed from the regular educational programs (my son was one of them), but rather of the overall level, the curriculum and the basic reading and writing skills, plus elementary mathematics. I'm sorry to say but based on my own observations, I wasn't impressed.

Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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Gomezman5 says on May 7, 2005, 13:03:

Kernow Paying for the free medical care of lawfully residing individuals is acceptable for me. Paying for illegals is NOT. They should not be the beneficiary of any government subsidized program that I as a lawfully residing person has to pay for. And you are right, I am paying for the education of illegals and I don't like that either. I know they are here. But again, they should be deported and send back to their country of origin and let their governments subsidize their educations and medical care. And if you have been watching the news lately, you will see that a clear majority of Americans think as I do, and the numbers are growing every day.

Now as to your contention that they problem is with the American employers that are employing illegals, and that they should not hire people without a social security card, you have to be kidding. First of all, now that I educated you about Medicaid, let me educate you about the underworld of the false social security cards out there. Let's go back to my favorite city again...Chicago. (Hey, it always illustrates my point perfectly). Chicago is a "Sanctuary city." (you can Google this term for more info). The illegal Mexicans come here in record numbers to get what is commonly known as a "mica" (which is slang for false residency cards)They also get false social security cards. Now, the two costs no more than $200. With those documents, you can get a job anywhere. And they do. They are painters, working for huge commercial painting contractors that.....get this....do work in government buildings Ja Ja. They are working at car repair shops, sushi chiefs, carpet layers, installing tile floors, butcher shops, meat packing plants. The liberals in this country say that we need the Mexicans because they come here to do they work that Americans will not do. Lies lies lies from stupid liberals don't have a clue of what they are saying. 10 years ago, meat packing plants paid American employees almost $24 per hour. Today, thanks to the illegal Mexicans showing up at the door step with illegal id's and social security cards, the same workers are making about $9.50 an hour. Get the point. We need to stop this influx of illegal immigration and we need to stop it NOW!!!! So it's not the employers fault if we are letting people run around this country with false ID's. If you had a business, and a bunch of Mexicans showed up with documentation that appeared on its face in order, what would you do? Give me a break, would you get this sudden jolt of patriotism and say to yourself no, I will not hire these guys with proper documentation (and believe me they look like the real stuff) for $10 an hour, I would rather hire an American person and pay him more money. Is that what you would really do???

I think I have made my point.

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Gomezman5 says on May 7, 2005, 13:18:

Well Des If you want to put it that way...."a very narrow pool of information", than I am sorry to say, that rule applies to all of us on here that pontificate about what we claim to be the case, but in reality know very little about.........myself included if it makes you feel better.

However, common sense dictates, that where there "ain't" much $$, there aint much of anything..and sorry to tell you, but education is now exception. I think this point has been beaten to death already. You and I are not on the same terrain here. It's part of what is keeping me away from here in general. So many foreiners coming on here, talking about Colombia like they really think the have the whole picture. Sure people are running to Colombia from all parts of the world for vacations, to find wives, start businesses, or maybe just live there. If you have euros or dollars in your pocket when you get off the plane, you will do fine. But if you don't, who in the hell want to go there to live............WHO???? Why, so they can work for $7 a day..? And if you happen to be a hottie, you can earn a few extra pesos if you decide to be the bosses girlfriend for a day or two?

Des.........don't wind me up anymore, I just lost weight and I am off my blood pressure medication, I am not going to let this site put me back on it again. Kernow tries his hardest to do that. You don't need to join his team....But most of the time he is just kidding...I think. If you want to debate this issue, send me an email. You have it. In fact, I will give it to anyone who wants it. Or send me your number, and I will call you in Sweden.....Typing this long not only gives me a headache, it hurts my writs because most of the time I am typing on my laptop.....

Peace Des.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on May 7, 2005, 13:33:

sorry for your health problems, gomez and you're off the hook. I couldn't possibly take your imminent stroke on my conscience:)
Oh, one more thing (hope your blood pressure doesn't go up with this): I'm not one of those "So many foreiners coming on here, talking about Colombia like they really think the have the whole picture. Sure people are running to Colombia from all parts of the world for vacations, to find wives, start businesses, or maybe just live there. If you have euros or dollars in your pocket when you get off the plane, you will do fine. But if you don't, who in the hell want to go there to live.........."
I've worked there and I have lived there, not as a foreigner but on the same terms as any Colombiana, living the life of a Colombiana, earning the salary of a Colombiana. It might turn out that I have spent a longer portion of my working life in Colombia than you...
Peace,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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Gomezman5 says on May 7, 2005, 13:43:

"Imminent stroke" ? Thanks......Well, that is why I don't visit here too much. My weight is down. I go to the health club (for $84) a month (which is a discounted rate) at least 5 days a week. And, lastly I seem to be having the BP under control. So, my health, which is about the only thing I have some control over appears to be improving.

Thanks for the consideration and the thought nevertheless.

Oh, BTY, from your former posts, I am sure you lived in Colombia more than me. But I am sure I have been going there for more years than you. Remeber I was born there and I am probably older than you. I know that because someone already told me how old you were.

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poco says on May 7, 2005, 14:14:

GM5 - Take it easy The U.S. is the land of the free,, free to make any decision, some figure it out,, others still believe in Santa Claus.

GM5:
Your posts are accurate and easy to Google a search for additional data.

Is that what you would really do??? Assume you are joking of course.

No, A sure path to failure. Would you pay a Colombian maid more than the going rate to prepare rooms in a Hotel for new guests? The Hotel down the street won’t. Not to mention the “GOOD WILL� you will generate with others who may not be able to afford a price increase.

What can I do ? is another question. The answer is not much about situations outside your control. Everyone has a choice. The shit will hit the fan in less than 20 years if things don’t change. Colombia is a good place to “hide out� and personally I think a person needs to be as far away as possible from the cities (anywhere, not just Colombia). If I was in Europe it would probably be Asia. Unfortunately and this will become unfortunate, for a vast number of people this is not an option because of money, family, work, relatives and the fact they don’t want to think about it.

Hopefully the illegal alien problem will “start� to be fixed by determining how the U.S. can allow them to stay legally and contribute to the system. Isolationism, building a wall around the borders etc. may be devastating to the U.S. There is a generational redistribution of wealth,,, who will buy the assets? Not hard to imagine what might happen in 20 years when the retired generation tries to cash in on their home, stocks, bonds, land etc.

I’ll go with flow. Cities are for visiting. Diversify, watch to see what happens and have a good time. The others??

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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stanmoonie says on May 7, 2005, 14:53:

Well you got part of it wrong anyway Itaguifun

You got part of it wrong... the meat has no favor... the chicken does suck... the schools in Colombia does not put up with the same bull they do here...

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b bruce says on May 7, 2005, 15:09:

Colombians abroad! I firmly believe that once good people leave their home country and jump into the fray so to speak of the hustle and bustle of a country like the USA, Canada or the UK. Most will change in that race for the all mighty dollar. That is why I think I fell in love with Colombia and find the Colombian people so beautiful. They are living day to day with their chins up and being very polite and most are honest. But I think most would change in the USA where it seems to be everyone for themselves. You would have to change just to survive. There is something good to be said about any country. The trick is going there and seeing it for yourself. Not on the travel channel or CNN! Viva Colombia!

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kat1 (Moderator) says on May 7, 2005, 15:15:

I have a Colombian flag in my car and sticker in the back that says I love Colombian coffe;-)

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poco says on May 7, 2005, 16:21:

The Schools "pot to piss in"
This gave me good laugh. Friends would ask if there were a lot of poor people and I’d say,,, Having a “pot to piss in� takes on a whole new meaning.

UC is correct 99% of the time and if I disagree it is because his experience in Medellin is different. I live in a Rural Area and the public schools are great. I’ve never had any children so I’m comparing to rural high schools 40 years ago in the U.S. Learning is learning, teaching is teaching and Colombian teachers are very competent.

Guess a photo webpage on the Valle Cauca Rural Colombian Public schools is in order. Gives me something to do next time I’m there,,, actually I might be able to get the school to do it for me as a class project.

The Colombian 10th grade math being taught was more advanced than I remember, especially the algebra. He was having trouble and I hired a tutor and purchased a math book similar to the one used in the school. NOT many can afford to do this, and probably none bother. BOOKS are very expensive. The teacher writes on the board and students copy to a piece of paper, take it home and solve the problems. Some assignments are handed out on Xeroxed paper. Students need to take a few 100 pesos to school for copies. Not all the time but probably more times than some can afford if they have many children.

He WILL HAPPILY go to school, he WILL NOT miss any classes and he WILL do better than the last grade card. So he understands the seriousness, I have shown him the “house� I will rent for him so he can continue to be worthless but out of my sight when he turns 18 next year. Last school wide testing he was 5 out of 270,, must be working. Threatened to dress him up in panties and a bra but he seemed to like that idea.

PS: I made an icon

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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kernow62 says on May 7, 2005, 16:56:

Gomez sorry your wrists are hurting from typing responses. I have three possible cures.

1) Don't respond.

2) Hire an illegal Colombian to type it for you.

3) Purchase Dragon Naturally Talking, you can then yell at me and it will type for you. I'm sure your mouth still works.

There, wasn't I nice and helpful. ;-)

All kidding aside sorry about your health problems, I mean that. I even sent you a lovely PM.

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ColombianoX says on May 7, 2005, 17:06:

Poco,

That has got to be the prettiest map of Texas I've ever seen, ha ha ha!!



CX

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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platano says on May 7, 2005, 17:27:

G5 and Desi, about "a very narrow pool of information" The data I cited was national taken from ICFES testing done at ALL public schools.... so my comment was not based on "a very narrow pool of information"

The comments about money and resources also give me pause. The word "education" comes from the Latin "educare" which means to lead out, to bring out or help realize potential that is within. This really doesn't correlate with more money being better. Socrates did it with socratic dialog. I seem to remember reading about a black woman, I believe it was in Chicago, who demonstrated that a poor inner city public school could outperform other schools having far more money and resources. I believe Jerry Brown (Governor Moonbeam) is demonstrating it with inner city schools in Oakland where the emphasis is on military values of espirit de corps, discipline, and hard work (none of which are dependent on having lots and lots of money) to help students become better students.

The reason some Colombians return to Colombia when their children come of age for schooling is because in Colombia they believe their children will receive a better education not only academically but also in terms of values the children are taught, and the environment the children will learn in -- with less school violence and fewer drug pushers in the school buildings.

Platano X, defensor of the Colombianidad

plátano

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Rubiazo says on May 7, 2005, 17:34:

Some people are making ASSUMPTIONS And obviously didnt even bother to properly read what I posted so here goes again, to make everything clear

I'm NOT Colombian. I was born and raised in Canada and moved to the USA in 1997.

I have travelled over a good part of North and South America. In the Latin American countries I found the food to be MUCH better, especially the meat and fruit.

I wasn't talking about handling practices OR storage of the meat. What the hell good does it do to make sure meat is stored at the proper temperature when its full of poisonous chemicals to begin with?? The USDA seems to have no problem with BGH or a million other things they give the cows, or the growth hormones they give the chickens. Chickens in the USA go from egg to mature in just under 4 weeks and can barely move a muscle their whole lives. Which is why they taste like shit and are bad for you.

I'm NOT a vegan or a vegetarian or a member of PETA or any of those whacko groups. I eat meat 2-3 times a day here in the Bronx. And maybe in Chicago they are more strict, but here nobody gives a damn. I walk into my local grocery store and a lot of the meat on the shelves smells rotten THROUGH THE PLASTIC. I try to go to the local viveros to get my meat as much as possible. Most of them lie or straight up don't know if their animals are full of antibiotics and steroids either but at least the meat is fresh!!

I generally do try to avoid the chicken and the milk here unless it's free range/organic. To this day I feel sick if I drink regular milk here. I also can't eat at White Castle. You have to be raised on that crap to be able to eat it or keep it down, I think!

As for the schools, like a previous poster stated, just look at the curriculums. To me, that is the most DISGUSTING thing about both Canada AND the USA is how even fucked up places like Nigeria manage to educate their children better than we do. Admittedly, many people in poorer countries may not even get near a school or be able to stay in one too long, but that once again is a separate issue. Maybe that's part of the problem up here, that we're trying to do so much for everyone that it brings the bar way down.

Another statistic to check out is just how many foreigners are filling up all of America's best post-secondary institutions. Columbia University here is around 2/3 people on student visas on average. It's very telling that most Americans end up in public universities, which, with few exceptions, are a far cry not only from the ivy league but from your average university in Latin America as well!

As for Colombia being a fantasy land, it's really silly to try and make objective judgements about which place is better than another because EVERYBODY IS LOOKING FOR SOMETHING DIFFERENT!! IF personal safety is your biggest goal in life, than Colombia is probably a good place to AVOID from one end of the country to another. If you want a good education for your kids in the US, it can be done but you're going to have to make a lot of sacrifices and do TONS of research.

Oh and BTW like i posted previously I have two children. One is going into kindergarten next year and the other is seven months old.

The older one is currently in a Montessori program which is excellent but also $625 a month (food, juice, not included, extra for before 9am, extra for after 4pm). She's going to go to kindergarten in a local Catholic school where I previously taught music for the past 4 years. They are OK but they have massive class sizes (35+ in some grades) and the kids are poorly supervised (a 2nd grader recently fell off the 3 story ROOF, it was on the news too!) Public schools here are a fucking DISASTER, and there is a severe lack of space so that a lot of bright kids never get any opportunity to get to the magnet schools.

My novia's kid in Bogota currently goes to a Catholic school ran by De La Salle brothers in the Northwest. She pays $500k a month and not only gets a better education than my kids could possibly get here with out having to commute in and out of the Upper East Side every day. She also gets door to door bus service and food included in that. We would have a hell of a hard time making a future in NYC even if I didnt wanna get the fuck out of this pathetic CONTINENT, mainly because of the education question. Unless the little tyke's English becomes PERFECT he'd have to go in bilingual education, which is a joke here.

I worry a hell of a lot about my kids up here and what would happen if I left them and went to Bogota to live. And the top two worries on my list are- the education and the crap food here. You see so many 10 year olds looking like 20 year olds now because they drink those hormones in the milk and they go from little heifer to full grown cow in 10 years instead of 20!

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itaguifun says on May 7, 2005, 17:54:

good point Mario you are correct on the usage of heretofore-bravo. It seems that people need to be told about correct word usage here. Some examples are heretofore and AMERICAN. I like the sun beaten rubber band comment-witty. It seems that many people on this site have a hard time with taking factual information from the standpoint of an educator ar anyone else for that matter. BTW-please advise me as to any grammatical/syntactical/word usage errors that may be in this post that way I don't need a dictionary/thesaurus I will have my own lacallo.

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Gomezman5 says on May 7, 2005, 18:15:

Kernow....That is the funniest thing You have ever written (to me)Kernow......Really....I like that......a lot....Your sarcasm may drive me nuts at times. But your sense of humor is will worth putting up your sarcasm. My wrists only bother me when I use my laptop. I don't have this problem when I use a regular keyboard with the desktop. I just have to use my laptop because I get to sit in my Living room all comfy, in my big leather chair with the ottoman while getting a fair and balanced version of today's news.

POCO:

Cool Logo.....could you do one of Illinois and send it to me?????
I will put that on all my Emails at work. People will not even not know what the colors represent.

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kernow62 says on May 7, 2005, 18:51:

Sarcasm ... moi?

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Rubiazo says on May 7, 2005, 18:52:

Tinto I'm with you on that I think everything you said re public education is exactly on the money. The root causes of those problems have to do with the social fabric unravelling itself here, and the root causes for that, well, I don't think any of us have that much energy to deal with that on an internet forum!!

What really pissed me off to begin with is the author of this post actually named three very legitimate reasons to be bitter about living in the USA and to miss one's home country. To me the 'ugly Latinos' would be the people who come here and for YEARS AND YEARS never take the time to learn English properly and then bitch and moan about how everybody else makes more than they do. Or the people who just don't get it that it is not OK to show up an hour late for work here etc.

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Gomezman5 says on May 7, 2005, 20:29:

Dragon naturally talking? $180 for that nonsense. First of all, if is anything like those translators, it will make sentences and words that don't make any sense.
My friend tries to send me things from Russia using one of those translators (My russian is not nearly as good as it once was)that changes the words from Russia to English. You should see the words it comes up with. I can imagine what this thing will do.

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poco says on May 7, 2005, 20:37:

GM5 The land of Lincoln



Left off the piece in the corner,, lakes count?

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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kernow62 says on May 7, 2005, 20:46:

G5, Dragon is 99 percent accurate for me. It even picks up unusual words even unusual surnames with no problem. Training was really not needed with the program it is that good, a good mic and soundcard helps. $180 is cheap for good software, try buying Photoshop or Acrobat or some of the other programs I use. I still can't afford a planetary scanner though. :-(

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Gomezman5 says on May 7, 2005, 20:46:

Lakes....... We only have one...(one that can be seen) That is Lake Michigan. That is way up in the northeast corner. I kind of need that because Chicago is on the lake. If there is no lake than what happens to Chicago?

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kernow62 says on May 7, 2005, 20:49:

I meant Dragon Naturally Speaking, not "Talking" sorry.

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poco says on May 7, 2005, 20:57:

ILL

One of us has a problem me/board

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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