GRINGO BOYFRIEND NOT GOING TO COLOMBIA

john_stark says on Dec 16, 2007, 22:02:

What his parents don't seem to realize is that going down there with you is not the same as him just going there on a whim by himself. I am sure that you would have made certain he was safe and erred on the side of caution. You're right - he is missing out on the best experience of his life.

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Strobers says on Dec 16, 2007, 22:36:

There comes a time in a person's life where they have to take responsibility for their own decisions. What your boyfriend's parents are doing is emotional blackmail and highly manipulative. As an adult he needs to make his own decisions based on what is best for him, and if you are really going to be in his life long term, for you as well. Decisions shouldn't be based on how ones actions might affect someone else's feelings; in this particular context anyway.

"Life is too serious to be taken seriously"

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Robert Jorge says on Dec 16, 2007, 22:50:

Where are you going to be in February? JS pretty much summed up what I was thinking as I read your post. It sucks when you can't share a wonderful experience with somebody you care about. My parents won't go either. Long story - but the same reasons his parents are worried sick. Though I care about my parent's feelings and value their opinions, they lost control of what I do about 18 years ago when I turned 18 and moved out to go to college. I did a bunch of stuff that upset them, but I have no regrets, became better for it, and would not be where I am at today if I had done everything they told me was what they thought was best. I would have led a very boring life, and would have been married to an ugly chick and living in Fort Wayne, Indiana if I had done what my parents wished. I shiver when I think about what if I had taken the more traveled road, rather than the less traveled trail. Anyway, I digress. Have a blast in Colombia, take lots of pictures. Share those with him and the family. If your in Cartagena in February, we have some PBHers sailing into port then. That would make for some interesting photo ops!

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

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Sr Tertius says on Dec 16, 2007, 23:44:

Take lots of pics of you hugging and kissing friends. Your bf will get jealous and next time will follow you to Colombia just to keep an eye on you. Jealousy trumps parental concerns, for sure ;)

Have a great time. Are you going to Bta?

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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travelingirl says on Dec 17, 2007, 00:15:

I'm so sorry, Veronica, that your boyfriend won't be going with you. :( He really has no idea what he's missing out on! Obviously, being in your good company, but an awesome trip as well. I can't believe his parents are acting like this, and he let it get to him as well. I used to be like that, when I was younger and still lived at home with the parents. Even after I moved out when I was 18, I'd have some guilt about doing things they didn't approve of but I quickly got over that b/c I knew I had to live my own life. They chose their lives, now I'm choosing mine. Anyway, I hope you have a blast on your trip! You should post some pictures if you have time. Where all will you be going again?

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

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goin_south says on Dec 17, 2007, 00:29:

Veronica... He should have waited until about 3 hours before the plane was leaving and then went to tell them... jejje... Hey; I know.... by experiencia! jaj

Ciao! Gustav.

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David Pristupa says on Dec 17, 2007, 01:52:

The problems in Colombia are presented
in a distored context and hyperbolized.
There is a lot of bad stuff in the states
too. In the states we are told the problems in other countries are always worse than ours no matter how bad they
are.

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thur says on Dec 17, 2007, 02:03:

Were you planning to take a night bus, which serves as an all city service (stopping in every village) in Boyaca? The incidents that have happened over the last few years all happened at night, which is why I still advise to travel in daytime. Safety, but also to look at the gorgeous landscape (green mountains, deep valleys, rivers, fog, vendors...).
He _is_ missing out on a great opportunity, even more so if he would be in the company of you and your family. Even my 60 year-old father goes every year to Colombia with his wife (my mother, for the record) and they'll be doing so in a few weeks for 3 whole months this time.
Greetings,

- www.pbase.com/thur

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Veronica77 says on Dec 17, 2007, 03:06:

You guys have no idea how sad I'm.
I read all you've said and I agree. But his dad is a sick person and he may not be around for too much longer. Maybe 5 years or maybe just one. His fear about his son going to Colombia was irrational. He literally thought that his son would be welcome to the sounds of gun machines shooting at him once he arrive there.
We went through the task of convincing them for about 6 weeks and I couldn't take it anymore. I was feeling very guilty since they were soooo desperate, in such panic and terrible fear due to my wish.
I did find a lot of data about how dangerous the states can be, and how Birmingham, their own home, has a murder rate 60% higher than Medellin. But still, that meant nothing beside the fact that the State Department warns them about going to that country.
Last friday I broke in tears after hearing how his dad had been in the hospital and all he could talk about, even when half sleep due to the medicines, was about the trip to Colombia. So I told my BF not to worry and that he didn't have to go with me. He was very thankful and relieved.
We were planning to visit my highschool best friends who all live now in Bogota and that I haven't seen since I moved to this country 6 years ago. One of them is getting married that weekend and we were going to have so much fun con la fiesta. Plus I was soooo proud to show of my BF- sound silly I know- but he's so handsome and polite and fun.
Then we were going to Medellin were I'm from. I was going to take him to the nicest places. To eat at Hato Viejo, to go Salsa dancing -which he loves- I was going to have a family gathering with Ajiaco so he could meet my tias and primos, I was going to take him to el rancherito to eat chorizo y arepa...hmmm. Well, there were so many plans, now it's all gone.
It is a very difficult situation. He is a very good man. He respects me, he loves me. he wants a future together, but still, I can't get over the fact that he is not coming and I'm not sure when I'd be going back. Maybe even 2 years. This just sucks!
I need to get over it.

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dwmte7 says on Dec 17, 2007, 04:50:

everyone's posts are so thoughtful and 'right on'. i gave my folks such grief...especially since we were a farming family, very conservative an close knit. i was born with wanderlust and started 'going' early on. then, my life, for reason's of karma (???) had me working all over the world. they never stopped worrying...ever. even after i started living in colombia years ago, nothing could ally their fears, insecurities, and worries. i have no special suggestions for you and your novio, veronica, just play the cards as you're dealt them and be patient. i, personally wouldn't go the route of deception, as who knows where that might lead. your friend needs to be frank with his folks and share the realities of his heart and of his proposed life plans with you....which plans, don't of necessity, include them. it's your lives and you must live them as your hearts guide you.

good luck to both of you. and i hope you enjoy your trip back home. i know that we wish we could go home to medallo for the holidays, we just don't have the money. and, needless to say, the family is nuts because we cant afford to go back right now. say hello to medallo for all of us.

dwmte

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slguy says on Dec 17, 2007, 04:57:

Am I the only one that's stunned that Veronica is still enamored of a 28 year old boy who let's his daddy manipulate him in such an obvious manner?

Geez, hun- there's plenty of real men out there!

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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Chelesupercono says on Dec 17, 2007, 04:59:

Sounds like a Mommy and Daddy boy.......he needs to get real and take charge of his own life....if this "boy" falls for that kind of parental manipulation now, what kind of husband will he be in future? Either call him on it or get a real man...period

never go to bed with someone crazier then you are, you will do it and you will regret it.......

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elmodefoque says on Dec 17, 2007, 05:00:

hola veronica
I don’t know maybe I come from a different planet, but if I were a broad and my boyfriend and his family thinks of my people as a whole bunch of dangerous savages (ok some are, ok many are) I’ll tell that ignorant, sister marrying, trailer trash, Budweiser guzzling, black men lynching redneck to go fok himself
Listen, I dated many beautiful NYC and Connecticut WASPS from wealthy, well read and well traveled, New York Times reading liberals and of course die hard democrat families who were NEVER, NEVER, NEVER alarmed at the thought of their super fine daughter dating or going to Colombia with me.
Try finding a boyfriend with a family that picks up a reputable newspaper once in a while and not the National Enquirer and don’t go by what they see on FOX news and Chuck Conners movies.
Thank you and good luck.
Most colombianas dream man

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

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elmodefoque says on Dec 17, 2007, 05:11:

On tuesday night i'm driving with my wify and brother in law to North Carolina, near Wiston Salem, and let me tell ya, i'm scared shitless. My young brother in law asked me if we could go to bars over there like we do here in NYC? and i says HELLLLL NOOOOOO!!!!!
You want us to get our ass kicked and then lynch??

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

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elmodefoque says on Dec 17, 2007, 05:14:

I'm hoping the license plate on the SUV rental I'm pickin up today has anything but a NY plate. don't want them thar friendly sheriffs busting my balls

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

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LilaM says on Dec 17, 2007, 05:15:

The guilt trip work for parents always!!!, And if something happens during the trip they are going to say "I TOLD YOU NOT TO GOOOOOO".

"You may be disappointed if you fail, but you are doomed if you don´t try" B. Sills

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elmodefoque says on Dec 17, 2007, 05:17:

SIMON said it BEST!
simon, a little help please

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

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slguy says on Dec 17, 2007, 05:18:

Hey Elmo! Calma! I grew up in Winston-Salem! And I promise not to alert the boys that you're comin'! jajajajajjajaj

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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elmodefoque says on Dec 17, 2007, 05:21:

please tell them i is a friendly Hackawy injun.

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

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elmodefoque says on Dec 17, 2007, 05:21:

the son of crazy cat and nephew of chief wild eagle

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

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slguy says on Dec 17, 2007, 05:26:

I'll pass the word. ;)

Where is it exactly you're going? I know some gorgeous places in the area....

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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elmodefoque says on Dec 17, 2007, 05:31:

Kenersville, NC

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

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slguy says on Dec 17, 2007, 05:39:

I know it well. Kernersville's about halfway between WS and Greensboro.

There's a great bar in WS called Ziggy's - almost always has good blues bands playing. Not Diomedes- but it's Carolina, not Curramba. jajajajja The place is near the Coliseum - almost anyone can point you there.

If you want a great daytrip- go into WS, head north on 52 until you see the Blue Ridge Parkway, then head west. It's a full day trip- but take your fokin breath away beautiful country.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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Albatross says on Dec 17, 2007, 05:43:

My sister lives in North Carolina... all I can say is watch out fer them damn rednecks, Elmo.
If you go out drinking, make sure you got your homies with you.

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

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slguy says on Dec 17, 2007, 05:45:

careful. I'll pull a Simon on ya, albatross! jajajajjajaja

WS's in the Piedmont. about halfway between Charlotte and Raleigh.

Actually, WS's a pretty sophisticated city, for Carolina. Home of Wake Forest University (my alma mater- barely! ;) ), the NC School of the Arts- and naturally, RJ Reynolds Tobacco.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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elmodefoque says on Dec 17, 2007, 05:46:

I've been there a couple times, but only went to a few lakes near by for a little bass fishing.
Always wanted to continue west , saw some great state and national parks in the map.
thanks maybe i'll do that.

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

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slguy says on Dec 17, 2007, 05:50:

You can also head towards Charlotte, and do some great striper fishing on Lake Norman, and hour north of Charlotte on I-77...

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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slguy says on Dec 17, 2007, 05:52:

WS's best gift to the world? Krispy Kreme. I went to high school with two grandkids of the founder...and they're still headquartered there.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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elmodefoque says on Dec 17, 2007, 06:00:

GIB, the biggest mistake of my life was not marrying my Georgia but raised CT girlfriend
She was everything i like in a woman, beautiful, wealthy (almost a million bucks between her grandma and parents) natural blonde, a nice german ass, small waist, athletic and loved the crap outta me.
enjoyed the outdoors, the only chit that was wrong with her was that she wanted to have my kids and she dance just like a white girl, all crazy and chit.
No other colombiana i've known even comes close to her.

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

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NJ C Rep says on Dec 17, 2007, 06:05:

That is nuts... I understand wanting to be careful and having concerned parents but caving in to them is extreme. One has to wonder how many other time the boyfriend caved in to his folks. I always believed the best traits of a husband is to stand up to his folks and their passive agressive manipulation. It sounds like there is a more totaritarian regime in Birmingham than there is in Bogota...

I always looked at it like this... If you can't stand up for yourself, how can you stand up for your spouse or kids?

You are right... He will be missing out on alot.. and perhaps much more than a great trip to a great country...

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El Polo says on Dec 17, 2007, 06:11:

LOL nice bulldog veronica

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miamimike says on Dec 17, 2007, 06:39:

Veronica, if your 28 yr old "Boyfriend" cannot make a simple decision in traveling to a Democratic country in SA without Parental Approval, you are in for a life of misery with this guy. His not wanting to accompany you to Colombia is a Harbinger of things to come in the Future. Instead of a Boyfriend, maybe you need a Man,,,
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GIB-Nice looking catch of a Northern Pike!
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Elmo--NC is OK as long as you stay in the Larger cities! I went to School in Roxboro and some clinicals at UNC in Chapel Hill(great town). Others in the raleigh Durham area. Great, No problem. Small towns something else though-old racial attitudes die hard. Small town Roxboro was a good example,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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Gator says on Dec 17, 2007, 07:00:

Guess Disney World, is out too:

POLK COUNTY, Fla. -- A Central Florida man accused of burning a pregnant woman and another female co-worker during a robbery this week has been linked to the shooting deaths of two gas station workers and other attempted homicides, according to investigators.

"His seven-day rampage ended with two dead and five additional people that he absolutely tried to kill," Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd said. "(Leon Davis) is a violent, despicable killer." Police said Davis went on a rampage three days after he was let out of prison earlier this month and killed two gas station workers at a BP gas station in Polk City.

The Polk County Sheriff's Office identified the victims as Pravinkumar C. Patel, 33, and Dashrath Patel.Investigators said several days later, Davis walked into the Nationwide Insurance Office on Thursday and demanded money from two employees inside the business. Chief Herbert Gillis said Davis apparently wasn't satisfied with the money and doused the women with gasoline. He then set them on fire, police said.

Yvonee Bustamonte, 26, and Jane Luciono, 23, who is 6 months pregnant, were able to make it to a nearby business and call for help. Officers said a good Samaritan was also shot in the face by Davis as he tried to help the women. Bustamonte and Luciono are in critical condition at Orlando Regional Medical Center this weekend.

"The only emotion we saw from him at all was when we showed him the surveillance video of himself at the store and he simply smiled," Judd said. Police said a $5,000 reward is being offered for the recovery of a Dan Wesson .357 revolver believed to have been used by Davis during the crimes.

LAKE WALES -- A premature baby delivered after his mother was kidnapped and set on fire during the robbery of a Polk County insurance office died early Sunday, authorities said.

"Brevior Sltare Cum Deformibus Mulieribus Est Vita!" .

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durito says on Dec 17, 2007, 07:01:

Find a new boyfriend, he doesn't sound like much fun.

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wjp0180 says on Dec 17, 2007, 07:29:

Well, anyone that feels like they can't visit the country where you live, the place you call home, must, at some level, think that they are better than you are. If not him, then his parents definitely do. This is who you are and where you live, and if his parents can't accept that, and if he can't break away from the fact that his parents can't accept that, maybe you just need to accept the fact that you can do better.

WP

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morphus says on Dec 17, 2007, 07:44:

Good thing he's not going to Iraq. Maybe he can go to Colombia but he's worried about his father's health. The father could worry to the point where he can have a nervous breakdown. There are a lot of people with that problem.

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durito says on Dec 17, 2007, 08:00:

I went to Birmingham once. It's about the worst place I've ever been and I've been just about everywhere in the Americas.

I'm sure my parents weren't thrilled when I emailed them from Panama about 6 years ago and said I was going to Colombia , but they never said anything as they knew they had no choice in the matter. And i was 22 and by myself. Now that I've moved here, they can't wait to come and visit. This guy should jump at the chance to come visit this wonderful country and meet your family.

A man walked into a church in my hometown (denver, co) and shot 6 people last week. Bad stuff happens everywhere. Tell him to he needs to stand up to his parents and come with you.

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elmodefoque says on Dec 17, 2007, 08:16:

SIMON!!!! SIMON!!!! where are YOU???
this young ladie's boyfriend thinks all you people in colombia are a bunch of crazy, stupid, ugly, violent, uncivilized little fokin injun. Her wonderful blanquito boyfriend is from burmingham ( donde diablo es eso) where they lynch your spic ass next to a black guy.
tu sabes el orgullo grandisimo de estas colombianas cuando tienen su novios gringos.
que tu cres compa?

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

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elmodefoque says on Dec 17, 2007, 08:19:

we all know well the incredible PRIDE estas pelas colombianas FEEL WHEN THEY SAY, MY GRINGO BOYFRIEND se le llena la boca de orgullo
como diablo se escribe, voca o boca?

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

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elmodefoque says on Dec 17, 2007, 08:20:

SIMONNNNNNN!!!
SIMONNNNNN!!!!!!!!

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

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Veronica77 says on Dec 17, 2007, 08:27:

No se me llena la boca con lo de "gringo boyfriend" Man, that's just something I learned in Journalism school. A good title gets people interested in what you are writing. Had a wrote some lame title, nobody would have even looked at my post and I wouldn't have learned all your interesting opinions.
I'm proud enough of who I'm and what I have to offer, that having an America boyfriend doesn't make me feel better about myself. I like him not because he's a white american, but because he's been faithfull, loving and respectfull. Had he been Colombian or Chinese, it would still love him the same way and I'd still be as proud!

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elmodefoque says on Dec 17, 2007, 08:28:

es simon que piensa asi, NOT ME
a mi tambien solo me gustan las gringas

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

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elmodefoque says on Dec 17, 2007, 08:39:

The first time I went to NC, 5 years ago, I imagined guys in pick up trucks with confederate flags chasing my black ass down Main Street.
To be honest, I was not that far off the mark. I was shitting bricks especially walking into a bait and tackle shop and all the guys in there had red necks, yes! red necks, from fishing under that sun all day long.
Then I went to the big city Mount Pilot, wait not Mount Pilot , it was Greensboro and let me tell ya, them thar local folks did not look too friendly and with their stares made it quite clear I did not belong there.
You might be thinking, hey this modefoque must be exaggerating, es un puro habla mierda NOT!!! If you look as dark and injun as me you gonna come across many places in good ol USA best to keep your black ass away.
When I go back to NYC I started doing a little research and came up with this interesting news event that happened not too long ago in Greensboro, a town right next to Kernersville.
And us injuns in colombia are the savages.

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

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elmodefoque says on Dec 17, 2007, 08:43:

fok that, i'm gonna drop them off in NC and continue to miami by myself.

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

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elmodefoque says on Dec 17, 2007, 08:44:

what? you guys don't speak french??

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

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miamimike says on Dec 17, 2007, 08:58:

My Neighbor in Roxboro, NC(30 miles north of Durham) told me up until the 40s they lynched Blacks from a Big Oak outside of town. They called it the Hanging Tree. Funny, it was only a few yards from an Antioch Baptist Church. Lynching&Church Burial Service One stop shopping.

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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morphus says on Dec 17, 2007, 08:59:

Elmo, they got Injuns down South. You should be ok. You brother-in-law does'nt look injun so he might have to be careful.

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elmodefoque says on Dec 17, 2007, 09:00:

1979 was a very special year. My first wify dumped my ass to become uptown manhattan biggest drug dealer, meawhile i continue to clean toilets.
To forget her i went to colombia for one month and screwed 30 different hooker, a hooker a day. Damn that was fun.
when i returned to NYC she wanted me back, giving me LOTS of cash, drugs and that rolex i talk about, but i was over her.
Diana was her name and making lots of money was her game, until she got busted.
We had beautiful kids

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

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slguy says on Dec 17, 2007, 09:01:

I still own a little farm just outside the town of Pilot Mountain. Haven't seen it in years, but it's still there, if I ever need a hideout. jajajajjajaj

Ya'll know, I assume, the difference between a yankee, and a damned yankee? A yankee eventually goes home....

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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elmodefoque says on Dec 17, 2007, 09:57:

you guys remember "easy rider" when peter fonda, dennis hopper and jack nickolson stopped at a southern town and the local folks called them yankee queers jijjijijji
When i'm by myself i get treated quite nice by southern folks BUT when i'm with colombian spics we all get that dirty look.
The day i walked all alone into that little bait and tackle shop the rednecks were quite helpful. maybe they thought i was one of them thar chactaw , cherokee or nachapunga injun.
You don't want to be a spic or black in many of these little southern towns.
sometimes it pays to be injun, but NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER...................................................................................................................................................in colombia

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

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dwmte7 says on Dec 17, 2007, 10:04:

veronica....i'll stick with my post above. with all due respect to my fellow pbh'ers, i can't support their taking such stances against your novio. i was taught that if we're gonna have an opinion about someone, first sit down and eat a bucket of salt with them. so, that being said, hold on, he sounds like he's worth it, and a little bit further down stream, you two can visit your home and family together....OR, kick him in the drawers and say, "damnit!", "i want to go visit my home and family with you. period. so common, lets go." who knows, maybe a little bit of saltiness on your part might turn the tables. his folks have had their life...it's time for you two to have your's. maybe if you go to them and tell them that, without being apologetic...just respectful...who knows maybe they'll change their attitude hearing from you.

dwmte

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morphus says on Dec 17, 2007, 10:33:

Injuns are the only dark skin people rednecks like. Don't forget the feathers...LOL

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morphus says on Dec 17, 2007, 10:37:

Dress up in buckskins too.

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ColombianoGringo says on Dec 17, 2007, 10:44:

One thing that cracks me up is that most of the rednecks I know claim to have some injun blood.

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LatinGringo says on Dec 17, 2007, 12:12:

As a person married to a Peruvian I must comment. I have been to Peru many times without problems, even in the worst parts of Lima. My best friend and godfather to my daughter is from Medillen. I have been there many times as well. Tell your boyfriend he is a pussy. Colombia is the most wonderful place on Earth!! I love it dearly. My wife and I will retire there. We already have land and will start building a house there next year. he is missing so very much. I think you really shouldnt marry this guy. He is marrying your culture and backround as well as you, if you guys do marry. I think he has parental control issues. I'd run from him, if I were you. find a guy with the balls to go to your country..That's what I would do. And I think I qualify as an expert on this subject..PM me if you want more comments on this subject..

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elmodefoque says on Dec 17, 2007, 12:18:

Let me just add something of substance a este asopao before I go home.
If you’re into gringos that’s fine and dandy most colombianas are, but there are plenty of adventurous nice guys’ right here on this site with big heart and open mind. Guys with balls as big as basketballs who enjoy meeting and living among other cultures and peoples with no fear in their heart,
You don’t lower yourself at the feet of a guy who thinks your family friends and country men are all a bunch of dangerous savages. Hay que tener dignida, yo pienso asi, dignida o muerte.
My kids grew up with extreme pride and self worth; they will never bow to a person who thinks their race is a piece of chit.
Thank you and have a nice evening

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

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adrienne79 says on Dec 17, 2007, 12:38:

Yep! I think even after his parents are gone, there will always be people telling him Colombia is a horrible place. He should be able to think clearly for his own self and say that it is worth the adventure to please his girl. Trust me, I have now been living her in Colombia for 5 months to be with my husband. My father back in Texas is scared to death that something will happen, however, I had to come to realize I wouldn't be able to convince him otherwise except come here and give him the occasional phone call and email to prove that I am okay and happy. That is what I am doing, I can't stop living the life I have wanted just for my parents much less would I feel pressured by the guilt they try to place on me with a "what if something happens." Honestly, sounds to me that your guy isn't crazy about coming to Colombia anyhow. I bet he is scared too. He probably grew up with his opinionated father and those values are in him even if he doesn't think so. He might be using his parents as the excuse and that is why he is thankful you have "let him off the hook" this time. Good luck girl. Even if you are very much in love, you still deserve somone who is willing to come home with you on vacation and meet your folks. It isn't even like you have asked him to move there.

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gatogris says on Dec 17, 2007, 12:46:

I'm not sure the connection between his parents' fear and their thinking that Colombia is filled with a bunch of under-evolved anthropoid apes is quite fixed.

It does not necessarily imply a slight to personal and national dignity that they are nervous about him. Nor does it mean they think all Colombians are uniformly beastly wogs.

It just means they are ignorant. Never underestimate ignorance, especially when compounded by media representations cooked up by a bunch of bored, hungover journalists or cracked-out, hack screenwriters.

The best way to deal with ignorance is to bypass it, as some of the above posts imply. If you try to enlighten, most people just dig in their heals and become more recalcitrant. Take him on a trip to Panama and then skip over the border. Oooops. Sorry pops.

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Robert Jorge says on Dec 17, 2007, 15:38:

My parents invited me to their place in Hawaii. I told them I didn't want to go. I was worried about getting mugged by meth-heads. I don't know if they got the hint.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

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billyb says on Dec 17, 2007, 15:44:

Sr Tertius says on Sunday December 16th, 2007 23:44:

"Take lots of pics of you hugging and kissing friends. Your bf will get jealous and next time will follow you to Colombia just to keep an eye on you. Jealousy trumps parental concerns, for sure ;)"


I like T's solution.

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slguy says on Dec 17, 2007, 15:49:

If I had to resort to such tactics just to get my girl to go meet my family, I'm not so sure those fotos would only be of friends....or that the girl would ever see them.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Dec 17, 2007, 15:59:

ah! eso para que llevar leña al monte..:)))

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Simon says on Dec 17, 2007, 16:34:

"SIMON!!!! SIMON!!!! where are YOU???"


Elmo, I'm too busy having a blast here in Cali to worry about sell-out Colombianas and their white trash boyfriend's bigoted families!


Vengase para aca algun dia Elmo, no joda, esto esta muy bueno, hay viejas buenisimas por todos lados! My neck is already hurting from having to turn and look at so many babes!

HERE'S SIMON!!!!

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Simon says on Dec 17, 2007, 16:50:

"SIMON said it BEST!
simon, a little help please"


You mean when I said that if my girlfrien´'s family doesn't love my country and/or culture, then they don't love me?

HERE'S SIMON!!!!

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Simon says on Dec 17, 2007, 16:50:

"SIMON said it BEST!
simon, a little help please"


You mean when I said that if my girlfrien´'s family doesn't love my country and/or culture, then they don't love me?

HERE'S SIMON!!!!

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aztec says on Dec 17, 2007, 17:01:

elmodefoque, North Carolina is full of American Indians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Band_of_Cherokee_Indians

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aztec says on Dec 17, 2007, 17:04:

Cherokee Indian official web site.

http://www.nc-cherokee.com/

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David Pristupa says on Dec 17, 2007, 19:33:

Whether your waiting for a bus, sitting in a classroom, shopping at the mall, going to
church or working at night in a convenience store.....it is safer in Colombia than the
states. I told my dad that I have plans to
move to Colombia.....he was felt it would be a good move for me.

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Colombiche says on Dec 17, 2007, 20:59:

"You don’t lower yourself at the feet of a guy who thinks your family friends and country men are all a bunch of dangerous savages. Hay que tener dignida, yo pienso asi, dignida o muerte." - Elmodefoque

Juepucha elmo!!!!!! Eso te salio genial, lo dijiste tal y como es.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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christobeldawg says on Dec 17, 2007, 21:04:

much ado about nothing. He should just come on down, be low key, kind and respectful, no problema. I don't understand the problem, really.

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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goin_south says on Dec 18, 2007, 00:40:

-dawg,... you've been studyin too much spanish...
It's the guy's parents.
He ain't goin_south. jajj... no way.
She needs a new bf!

Ciao! Gustav.

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dwr says on Dec 18, 2007, 05:47:

It is unfortunate but many people are afraid to go to Colombia. My mother freaks out when she visits. The violence in Colombia is of a breed that is particularly attractive on CNN and Fox News and makes for great show. I have lived here 20 years and have been robbed once in my life; in Portland, Oregon. Colombia has bubbles of security just like any place in this world. You can also find trouble just around the corner. What a bummer to have the state of mind sitting in Birmingham afraid to board a plane. On the other hand, I am kind of interested in learning how your boyfriends family won an argument with a Colombian woman? I have never been able to win one in my home. My guess is he would probably follow Veronica anywhere in the world if that was a contigency to life with her. Too bad he lacks the cojones. Can't think of many places better than Colombia.

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Veronica77 says on Dec 18, 2007, 06:35:

GringoinBogota, I agree with you. The fact that somebody is afraid to go to Colombia doesn't mean they are racist or haters. They actually like me and have been very kind to me, but they have never been out of the States, or even just the south. They are even afraid of him going to NY.
The boyfriend does want to go to Colombia but was just concerned about his fathers health.
DRW, I was the one who end up asking him not to come with me because it was just too much pressure on me to have to justify everything that happens every day in Colombia. So when the SOgamoso incident happened and they freaked out, I just couldn't take it anymore.
His father's health is very unstable. He may not have much time left and I don't want to be the cause of so much pain. He really thought he was going to loose his soon to Colombia. Sad!
I'm trying to come to terms with the situation. I'm very hurt, but he is a very good man and Im going to give him the chance go come with me next time. He has promised!
I'm also trying to understand that they are not rejecting me by being afraid of Colombia. It is ignorance and nothing more than that.
Hopefully very soon I'll be able to post the good news that we are finally going together. And he has also promise that if we have children I can take them to Colombia with me. Otherwise I wouldn't date him anymore.

Thanks for all your coments, even though some were kind of insulting to me, but I know you get everything in a forum, so that's ok.

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elmodefoque says on Dec 18, 2007, 07:07:

Sorry to take such a harsh stand but to tell this young girl to beg her precious gringo bf y armale una pelicula for him to gotto Colombia is absurd.
On the other hand you would need more than to beg me, best is to knock me out then drag my ass to Birmingham Alabama.
Birmingham, synonymous with everything that was the evil, racist, bigoted and shameful part of American history. Keep in mind we are not talking 200 years ago, how about the 60’s!
Natalie with all due respect you are the very typical colombiana, I’m sure you brought so much joy and pride to your entire family by landing this gringo, in turn, I really doubt his family feels the same way about you. I ;’m sure they much prefer a beautiful blonde blue eye southern bell for their precious son and not someone pressuring him to gotto some unheard of dangerous, monkey inhabited, third world banana republic country.

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

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Rob77 says on Dec 18, 2007, 07:10:

Veronica, ignore the extreme advice you were given here. It's not his parent's fault they don't know more about Colombia than what they read in the press.

You should be glad he cares so much about his parents. A guy like that may also care a lot about your parents if they ever need your attention. He sounds like a family man. The kind of man that can offer you a stable relationship.

Ignore the macho advice...

But, I agree with GIB, et alia, you should sneak off with him for a couple weeks and show him how much fun Colombia can be, and how nice people are.

BOYCOTT CITGO - CHAVEZ SUCKS!!!

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billyb says on Dec 18, 2007, 07:12:

" It's not his parent's fault they don't know more about Colombia than what they read in the press."

Yes it is, if it is important to them, then they should educate themselves on it.

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Rob77 says on Dec 18, 2007, 07:16:

"Yes it is, if it is important to them, then they should educate themselves on it."

And you think it is their duty to be up on every country on the planet, just in case their son meets a girl? I have met plenty of University educated Colombians that didn't even know all the names of the countries in South America... double standards...

She is not interested in marrying his parents. And if she is right, that the parents wont be around long, her main concern should be his attitude, not theirs.

BOYCOTT CITGO - CHAVEZ SUCKS!!!

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elmodefoque says on Dec 18, 2007, 07:25:

I also goggled Birmingham and the first thing that popped up was George Wallace, lynching and the vicious beatings of blacks by cops and nice local folks, yet this girl for some unknown reason ended up over there.
If she had the balls to go to Alabama he should have the balls to gotto colombia!!!
thank you!!

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

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Rob77 says on Dec 18, 2007, 07:30:

Elmo, the events you mentioned from your google search occurred several decades ago. That would be like me telling someone not to visit Bogotá because of the Bogotazo!

BOYCOTT CITGO - CHAVEZ SUCKS!!!

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Brians says on Dec 18, 2007, 07:34:

GIB I saw the body of a guy shot last weekend in Philadelphia in a upscale location. Probably drug related outside a nightclub. Anyway the crowd was mixed from college kids to yuppies to clubbers. There had to be 1,000 people around and cops beating the crap out of anyone who mouthed off. Anyway I don't discount things you saw and respect it however the world is a dangerous place. That is why I stay low and out of the radar however if shit is going to go down it probably has as good a chance of happening in my city in the US as down there. The only difference is I stand out a little more in Medellin and thus just need to be a little more alert.

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elmodefoque says on Dec 18, 2007, 07:35:

I was already here (USA) when that chit was happening, i don't think i'm that fokin old?
chit may i am!
Anyway, his parents are from that generation, you really think they have changed much??
come on!!!
even afraid to come to NYC, why??? could it be becuse of the many spics and blacks walking around? you think?

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

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elmodefoque says on Dec 18, 2007, 07:48:

Forest fokin Gump, the true spirit of the new south, too bad it was only a movie charecter.
I love it when he was in the village circa early 70's getting drunk with hookers in a typical ugly little NYC apartment, just like the one my buddie and I had back then.
You also gotta see "midnight cowboy" man what a movie!! it captured the real feeling of NYC during those days like no other movie.
Smack was the drug of choice back then

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

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elmodefoque says on Dec 18, 2007, 07:49:

anyways, gettin back to natalie's frady cat of a boyfriend

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

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elmodefoque says on Dec 18, 2007, 07:56:

"yeah but you kids dont want to go to colombia elmo"
esanch36



My kids have never been to Colombia and most likely never go and not due to fear or any of that chit. There’s nothing in Colombia they wanna see. Girls, my boys have more than enough hot NYC Latinas right here. My daughters have more than enough hot Latino guys’ right here too. They might show up one day to claim my bullet riddle and machete chopped up rotting corpse.
My kids come from the most fascinating nation in the world where every country is just minutes away. This country is known as New York City.
If they want to visit Colombia, they gotto Queens. If they want to visit China they gotto china town, Italy, little Italy, Greece, Astoria, Santo Domingo and Mexico right downstairs. You name we got it!
My kids have only dated other Latinos, but that’s just a NYC Latin thang and is not racial cus they have plenty of white friends. Just this weekend my daughter was invited to a cop party, most of the guys were good looking Irish and Italian cops but they never had a chance in hell
I personally prefer blonde gringas, why? Cus they given me the most FREE CHUCHA, and excellent CHUCHA if I may add.

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

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billyb says on Dec 18, 2007, 08:21:

"And you think it is their duty to be up on every country on the planet, just in case their son meets a girl? "

How about they educate themselves about just the country their future daughter-in-law is from? How about a country they are damaging your son's happiness over? I think that adds up to about, oh lets see, oh yeah, one country. Not too much trouble, unless you enjoy being ignorant.

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billyb says on Dec 18, 2007, 08:23:

"She is not interested in marrying his parents"

She's not the one who is ignorant.

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elmodefoque says on Dec 18, 2007, 08:37:

my stereotype of a Gringoinbogota.
endless and endless supply of cachaca CHUCHA jijjijjji

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

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elmodefoque says on Dec 18, 2007, 08:43:

do you ever get tired?
I mean, how much CHUCHA can a guy have until they all feel and look alike?

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

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elmodefoque says on Dec 18, 2007, 08:49:

never mind festival de arepa, how about a festival de CHUCHA? jjijijjjjij
Yeah, what better place than colombia

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

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elmodefoque says on Dec 18, 2007, 08:52:

man GIB that's exactly what i talk about with my buddies here.
My problem is gonna be getting rid of them, and they don't believe me
PLEASE, PLEASE do tell us more!!

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

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slguy says on Dec 18, 2007, 08:52:

jajajajjajajajjajajjajaja

Twenty years from now, I'll remember elmo with "never mind all that- what about the chucha?"

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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elmodefoque says on Dec 18, 2007, 08:56:

imgine slguy, us facing such dilema. how to get rid of so much CHUCHA
MAN, I CAN;T FOKIN WAIT TO HAVE THAT PROBLEM
GIB, maybe i should buy a water hose and hose them all down with cold water

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

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Rob77 says on Dec 18, 2007, 09:12:

"How about they educate themselves about just the country their future daughter-in-law is from? How about a country they are damaging your son's happiness over? I think that adds up to about, oh lets see, oh yeah, one country. Not too much trouble, unless you enjoy being ignorant."

Now you think it's parent's responsibility to study up for their kids? you must have been spoiled rotten! You sound like a real whiner...

Her boyfriend is an adult. The parents have their own life. Leave them in peace. The son was nice enough to care about their health during a difficult time, and all you can do is whine about how they didn't run off to the library to compare crime statistics!

Who cares what the parents think. At some point they will be history and all that will matter is what her boyfriend thinks of her country and culture. Hopefully, she will introduce him to some decent, educated Colombians who don't hate and blame the US for everything that happens in their lives.

This has nothing to do with Alabama. I guarantee you will get the same reaction from the most educated and informed sectors of the US about Colombia. The standard reaction to living in Colombia is: "Are you fking crazy!?!?" People are only ignorant about the fact that there are some safe places to hang your hat in Colombia. They are not way off in thinking that Colombia is still one of the world's most dangerous places to live, using stats like kidnapping, murder, etc. (I said one of the most dangerous... so please save your stats showing Colombia dropped out of the #1 spot in some category!)

BOYCOTT CITGO - CHAVEZ SUCKS!!!

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billyb says on Dec 18, 2007, 11:26:

It's their responsability if they are going to get so worked up over it that it's making the guy sick, don't you think? Then again, like I said some people prefer ignorance. I personally could give a shit what they do, he's a pussy and his parents are ignorant, how's that?

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slguy says on Dec 18, 2007, 12:50:

jajajajajajajjajajaja

exactly, biily.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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Chelesupercono says on Dec 18, 2007, 14:10:

Sweetheart, leave the little wimpy boy in the U.S. and com'on down here and hook up with a real man.......I'll protect you from bad bad FARC boys......hasta luego baby!!!

never go to bed with someone crazier then you are, you will do it and you will regret it.......

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msaucey says on Dec 18, 2007, 16:14:

Veronica, that is a horrible shame.... Unfortunately, you going to Colombia is going to create another issue for the parents....

"You see son, we told you she would go, with or without you, even though she said she loves you..."... blah-blah-blah...

Hey, Slguy, maybe she should go on the "Querencia", she is a cutie... That'll really piss off the parents and make the boyfriend reconsider and kick himself....

lol

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

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slguy says on Dec 18, 2007, 16:17:

Nah. If she's so crazy about this little wimp, I'm thinking she'd be a fish out of water on Querencia....jajajjajjaa

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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dwmte7 says on Dec 18, 2007, 16:18:

i need a fuckin drink. all this about what's his face and his poor folks and poor veronica? shit were at 200 posts and the dude still aint goin...the first responders have done all they can do. now it's up to the guaro.

dwmte

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slguy says on Dec 18, 2007, 16:21:

ok, Douglas, I'll quit this thread if you will! jajajajajajjajajaj

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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dwmte7 says on Dec 18, 2007, 17:27:

once more, hal, gotta grab GIB and really get the fuck outta here.

common GIB, drinks are on.

dwmte

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john_stark says on Dec 18, 2007, 17:30:

You're right, GIB. They use it when it suits them but then if a gringo plays the same card, they can't stand it.

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durito says on Dec 18, 2007, 20:56:

You said his father might live for five more years? Then the mother won't want him to go. If the fathers illness is that serious, I can totally understand. But, is it serious enough to prevent him from taking a trip anywhere, or just Colombia?

He's 28, if he hasn't escaped his parents grasp yet, he never will.

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goin_south says on Dec 18, 2007, 22:26:

One for GIB... 'Welcome to My World'.. jaj

Ciao! Gustav.

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christobeldawg says on Dec 18, 2007, 22:40:

I think north Americans love their families just as much as Colombians love their families. We just don't all live together so much anymore. Colombians think it strange that my mother lives alone, and I live alone, yet we live in the same city. Well, she likes living alone, and so do I, but does that mean we don't love each other as much as if we lived in a house with each other, and 10 or 12 others in the family. No, it's just different here now than the way it was a generation or 2 back.

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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goin_south says on Dec 18, 2007, 22:51:

punta buena, Dawg.

Ciao! Gustav.

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Veronica77 says on Dec 19, 2007, 00:22:

He is very close to his Dad and that's something I admire. That shows me he'll end up being a great father to his own children.
When I said his dad may live 5 years I was being generous. Since his last relapse it seems there may not be much time left. Maybe a year maybe two.
The mom won't be an issue since she hasn't really been in his life. He has promised and I believe him that he'll go with me. What about a little trust? Plus, are you really telling me to dump a good guy who I've been dating for almost 2 years, who is a decent man, smart, professional, caring, faithful, because we are having a bump on the road. Nooooo. This is something we can work out. It is very important to me that he goes to Colombia with me, and even though I really wanted him to go this time, I'll give him one more opportunity on my next trip.
I don't let people run over me, So, don't you think I'm letting this man mistreat me or insult me. Although there have been many who have attempted. But this is one of those rare men that you know don't come around that often. So I'll stand by him and wait a little longer.
And for the ones who think my family is soooo proud because I landed a gringo, you are wrong. I don't need a gringo to make me feel good about myself and my family couldn't care less if I dated an American or Colombian. All they care is that I have somebody who respects me and loves me. Of course somebody who also works hard and can be a good provider to his family. Isn't that what we all want? I'm sorry that I live in an area where the only hispanics around are farm workers with just a primary school education and I don't see myself dating one of them. The circle where I move if full of Americans and that's how i ended up with one. It's just sooo easy to judge and assume things about me, but you have no idea where I come from, what social or economical back ground I have. I'm just a normal girl trying to have a normal relationship and hopefully a family. I'm not a caza maridos o a carranga resusitada happy because an american gave her a glance.

I'll be back. I promise I'll come back with the good news. Hope you remember me when that happens.
Good luck to all of you. =)

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TonyMattei says on Dec 19, 2007, 00:23:

TELL YOUR BOYFREIND PARENTS TO GO TO WASHINGTON DC AND WALK UP AND DOWN CHINA TOWN FOR CHINESE FOOD OR PHILLY WHERE I AM FROM WHERE THE AVERAGE 1.2 MURDERS A DAY SINCE JAN 1ST....... AND YOU TELL ME WHAT PLACE IS SAFER COLOMBIA IN THE CITY LIFE OR DC/PHILLY...... CHECK THE CRIME STATS FOR THE ENTIRE COUNTRY OF COLOMBIA COMPARED TO DC AND PHILLY.... BOTH AMERICAN CITIES ARE A WONDERFUL EXPERIECE AND LOTS OF HISTORY...IF AMERICA IS SO GREAT THATS WHAT I TOLD MY PARENTS WHEN I TOOK OFF TO COLOMBIA WITH MY EX G/F.. F*&#$ IT AND GO

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kalder says on Dec 19, 2007, 00:46:

What is it with Philadelphia? I've a friend (big, very, very tough Irishman) who once worked there. He said it was the most violent place he's ever been to. He said the bars were like the Wild West.

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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Veronica77 says on Dec 19, 2007, 04:35:

Gringo in Bogota, Thank you! you have been very objective through out this whole thing.
It's been a good experience to see all the different perspectives in this forum. It definitely helped me find my way with this relationship and the troubles we are having. Things are a lot better. I'm sad that he's not coming this time but I'm sure that he will come soon. I tried to be on his shoes and realized that if my dad was suffering so much for my trip, even if it was an irrational feeling, I wouldn't want to cause him that pain. Plus this is just expected. We are two completely different cultures trying to come together and it won't always be easy. One good thing, he loves my food, loves it! I have to make patacones several times a week and have pandebonos o almohabanas para el desayuno. And the best part is that he takes me salsa dancing and he actually knows how to dance! Rare, but true!
I'm sticking by my man. I believe in him.

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Veronica77 says on Dec 19, 2007, 04:35:

.

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Veronica77 says on Dec 19, 2007, 04:36:

.

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Rob77 says on Dec 19, 2007, 05:21:

I agree wth GIB. Veronica, you both sound like great people and lucky to have found eachother. Perhaps reading the advice from the machistas in this forum made you appreciate the guy you have even more.

BOYCOTT CITGO - CHAVEZ SUCKS!!!

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Chelesupercono says on Dec 19, 2007, 06:08:

I really cannot understand the amount of comments made anout this absurd post.....it all sounds like the guy's family thinks that their son is going to Iraq or Afghanistan....Jesus Christ on a Bicycle...!!! This is COLOMBIA....people. Colombia is much safer then Brazil for example, and many other countries in Latin America. Clearly his family is dysfunctional on many levels and should probably purchase a nice world atlas a few books and turn off all damm U.S. news channels on their T.V. and discover that there is a real world outside of KANSAS......what a load of bullshit!!!

never go to bed with someone crazier then you are, you will do it and you will regret it.......

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billyb says on Dec 19, 2007, 06:18:

Veronica, you sound like you have a good head on your shoulers, so good luck. BTW, maybe you can help the old man along, if you know what I mean, maybe fix him a couple of those "special shakes" and who knows, the BF might be ready to go sooner rather than later.

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Rob77 says on Dec 19, 2007, 07:03:

"Colombia is much safer then Brazil for example, and many other countries in Latin America."

Chele just attempted to rewrite history. Safer than Brazil? I suppose you could pick and choose what sectors or cities you want to compare. It didn't take much effort to find statistics on he subject through google. But, maybe you want to advise people not to use the Internet either, when gathering info about Colombia?

Murder Per Capita:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-cap...

Murder Per Country:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur-crime-murders

Kidnappings Per Capita:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_kid-crime-kidnappings

Kidnappings per Country:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_kid-crime-kidnappings

Gun Violence by County:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_gun_vio_hom_ove_hom_rat_per_100_...

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_gun_vio_hom_fir_hom_rat_per_100_...

Crime Sentence Length:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_sen_len-crime-sentence-length

Colombia wasn't #1 in all categories. Different countries topped different stats. But, there are enough statistics to more than justify his parent's concern. Still want to blame it on US news channels?

BOYCOTT CITGO - CHAVEZ SUCKS!!!

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dwmte7 says on Dec 19, 2007, 07:24:

sorry, hal, just couldn't resist keeping score....over 200 posts and he still aint going.

dwmte

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dwmte7 says on Dec 19, 2007, 07:25:

i lied...148.

dwmte

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slguy says on Dec 19, 2007, 09:39:

amazing, no? ;)

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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dwmte7 says on Dec 19, 2007, 10:14:

caughtcha..... fuckin dude ain't gonna bend, no matter how much GIB pampers him. pity, he just don't know what he's missin..i know about love for folks, most of us do. but a week away ain't gonna change the spots on the cat....

dwmte

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