Gringo Bobos ?

rfonteno says on Jan 20, 2005, 06:05:

Bobos are located in every country and every race.

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greenday says on Jan 20, 2005, 06:33:

bobas Albatross, these girls are actually "bobas", for having to marry a sub-par gringo just to stay in this country. Don't let it bother you...hey just ask Juliana out, show her a good time, then get her in the sack. Show her what a real "bobo" is like!!

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gabo says on Jan 20, 2005, 08:48:

understand the cultural context As an American citizen, let me tell you, this country is mightly though not wise. Its true that every country will have its bobos, and intelligent people, though citizens of the USA need to be especially attentive to our privileges and our history(which very few people in the USA know, and most of the world knows). I understand fully the colombian distaste for Americans. It may not be intelligent for them to generalize about all gringos, it is still understandable and something I personally am sympathetic towards. Much like white people dealing with blacks who hate all whites. You got to understand that its not totally absurd to think such a thing after years of oppression. Similarly with latin america and the USA, their is much animosity for good reason. the other 11 of septmber in chile in just one such example of many. When i deal with anti-americanism in latinos I don't get offended. I listen to them and concede that there have been numerous failings and that their are good people on the USA. There is a difference between the govt and its people. Its a tough one, don't let it turn you off. and your comment about rushing to get the films and all those other things, remember that something popular can be mediocre, think spice girls and budweiser beer. People are sucked in my advertising and many times are nto making conscious choices. Its no secret to understand that the USA is a pretty fucked up place. Don't be a patriot, be critical or you are in big trouble like all those poor soldiers in Iraq. Peace

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jccg says on Jan 20, 2005, 09:04:

There are many meanings of that Bobos Of course, the lack of critizism of your own country is a good reazon. Remmenber that any movie tell you "we (gringos) are free", but you don't make anything to make it true. If you said something or behave different from the gov. wishes you are a "betraitor terrorist". Many of you think that dropping a bomb over any other country is heroic. Many also belive that the people of that country is happy becouse of that bomb is making them "free".
However, in the Colombian case, the most of the people do not call you Bobo by your political lake of critizism, but because of the humor we have, that is pretty much sarcastic (when USA humor is pretty much visual, we base it in words games, double meaning, etc..) and in several ocations it took for you a long period of time to understand... then the joker will tell you bobo because of that.

This is just the true!!

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jccg says on Jan 20, 2005, 09:08:

cochino666, you know... your possition do not help... gabo shows intelligence in his comments, you show.... well, you know!

Also, only stupid people fight for flags.

This is just the true!!

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Crazy4Cali says on Jan 20, 2005, 09:13:

yeah, but... GIB said: "If you travel to Bosa in Bogota and ask them who Thomas Jefferson was they will not have the answer."

...how many people in know who Simon Bolivar was?

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Crazy4Cali says on Jan 20, 2005, 09:39:

I disagree Well, I strongly disagree with the notion that it would be, as GIB so arrogantly puts it, "a waste of time for Americans to study the history of all the third world countries that exist in the world..." More than one person (in the American and world press) has attributed our current predicament in the Middle East to a profound lack of understanding of their history and culture.

If the United States is going to so proudly claim the status of top f-ing dog in the planet, then they better damn-sure step up to the responsibility that such a position demands. Otherwise, the U.S. is just going to end up like all the other colonial world power "has-beens." e.g. the (former) Soviet Union, England, France, Spain, Rome, Greece....

My guess is that if gringos appear to be bobos, it's because of how proudly they squander what others don't have.

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Albatross says on Jan 20, 2005, 09:54:

President Alvaro Uribe I think it's interesting to note that Colombia's current president came to the U.S. (Harvard University) for Post-Graduate work.

Also, Gabo... I don't see how we've "oppressed" Colombia (Cuba is a different story altogether...)
...and I AM critical of my county, but I also defend it.

"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." – Edward Abbey

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

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Crazy4Cali says on Jan 20, 2005, 10:07:

since you asked... ...and I'm feeling particularly feisty today... :)

What you study depends on your perspective...

Should you study success to be successful? Of course.
Should you study failure to be successful? Of course.

I'm a pilot and to stay alive, I study both...The things it takes to be survive and the situations where others were less than successful so it won't happen to me.

Unfortunately "just shooting the terrorist" has turned out to be a rather expensive endeavor. If it just cost a $.50 bullet, that might be a cost-effective solution, however it's costing how-many US and innocent civilian lives and how much money per day. And the threat of terrorism has actually increased, in spite of the current lull we're experiencing.

So while you (and our current administration) might care to take the "ready, fire, aim" approach to combatting terrorism, I'd argue that you could get more results at less cost (perhaps even make a profit) in this area with some education on the subject. For starters you could begin to identify the problem more accurately.

This won't happen overnight and might not even show up in this year's annual report, but I have children to think about and the way things are going, they had better get some damn good jobs because in 40 years, I'm not going to have any Social Security and my kids are going to have one helluva national debt to pay (or live with).

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michaelz says on Jan 20, 2005, 10:19:

gringo bobos I have been to Colombia than 20 times and in my experience, anti-americanism is less common there than it is in the USA.

Some of Gabo's comments were an illustration. "Much like white people dealing with blacks who hate all whites. You got to understand that its not totally absurd to think such a thing after years of oppression. Similarly with latin america and the USA, their is much animosity for good reason."

What are we supposed to make of this - that Colombia (and every other failing state in the world) is failing because of American oppression? The FARC, widespread poverty, inequitable property distribution - its all the gringos fault.

Get real! Colombia’s problems (and those of most other banana republics) date back to the Colonial era, when a small ruling elite became entrenched and prevented the rise of an effective middle class. It wasn’t the gringos who were responsible for the bloodshed of the revolutionary period in South America, where each class and racial group slaughtered its enemies, and was slaughtered in its turn. We had barely become a country ourselves when the South American political dynamic was established.

The USA may have had some role in propping up some dictatorial governments, but usually there was no real, democratic alternative, just a different group of thugs waiting their turn at the public trough. Look at the main alternative - Cuba. Does Gabo prefer Castro’s socialist paradise?

The problems in Columbia are rooted in Columbia’s history, sociology, and culture. The gringos may have played some role, but the USA didn’t cause their problems, and the USA can’t solve them. Pretending otherwise is just a convenient excuse.

Most Colombians seem to understand this better than many Americans.

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ColombianoX says on Jan 20, 2005, 10:54:

"...and some would say (and they'd be correct so some extent) that if Simon Bolivar was a better politician/statesman/leader, and not just a general/dictator, that a lot more of the world would know what he accomplished."

Tinto,

Be careful with what you say about Simon bolivar. Liberating six nations is a remarkable accomplishment that merits learning about Bolivar anywhere in the world. If a "lot of the world" doesn't know who he was, that's due to their school's poor coverage of latin american history.


ColombianoX

'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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Crazy4Cali says on Jan 20, 2005, 10:56:

Understanding does not equal apeasment Understanding a culture does not necessarily mean agreeing with it. However, it does give you a lot more leverage in dealing with it constructively.

Should terrorist be allowed to kill people? Of course not. Should the conditions that cause the terrorist to act be understood? Of course, maybe there's something to learn, maybe not. Understanding and addressing what motivates TODAY's terrorist can go a long way towards reducing TOMORROW's terrorist, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't defend against TODAY's terrorist.

Being critical of the U.S. government is a civic duty. It was what our country was founded on. Violently overthrowing it, of course, is not allowed, but with our form of government, that should hardly be necessary...all you have to do is start talking and getting other people to start talking. The day that criticizing the government is not tolerated, we will have done more damage to the country than any terrorist could hope to do in their wildest dreams. What would all those who died defending our freedom think of that?

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nanis says on Jan 20, 2005, 11:20:

who the hell said that gringos are bobos?? my husband is a gringo, most of my friends are gringos and most of them are very intelligent, too intelligent if i may say so!.. but why is it that people feel the need to categorized the whole gringo culture just because some of them seem a bit slow? that isn't fair, there are many bobos in colombia too and everywhere else! it's like saying that most colombianas are shallow because they stick their butts out and talk on the cell phone in the gym (pink_lotus from the "de verdad que las gringas son mejores" thread) i just don't see the point guys! why is it that we need to categorized people? if everybody is different regardless of their culture, yeah some colombianos are clever but not all and the same goes to gringos too! so we will never know who's better than who? everybody has different characteristics some are good and some bad but no-one is better than anybody at least i don't consider myself being better than a gringa or a gringa being better than me!

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pablo says on Jan 20, 2005, 11:23:

Gringo Bobos Quote:
"I know three Colombianas that work in a coffee shop here in the U.S. that all (were) married... I was hoping to date one of them".

Need I say more?

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ColombianoX says on Jan 20, 2005, 11:31:

"if there hadn't been such a big and violent split (inter and intra-nation) almost immediately after independence, the Andean region would be far more powerful and well known that it is today"

I agree there, Tinto. And it was pretty much downhill for the Spanish Empire after the defeat of the Spanish Armada in 1588.


And about gringo's being "bobos", you don't put a man on the moon and become a superpower in less than two-hundred years by being a "bobo". The gringo's may be many things, but "bobo" certainly is not one of them.


CX

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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elmodefoque says on Jan 20, 2005, 12:00:

cx- i'll drink to that! the freaking gringos might look like bobos but they're bad ass modefoques, they even out do mother nature. the tsunam took a few minutes to kill 160 thousand people, the so called "gringo bobo' killed 190 thousand in seconds, nagasaki and hiroshima, now, that takes a lotta freaking balls.

I'll get there, when I get there!

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jccg says on Jan 20, 2005, 12:10:

Some answers... Well, see several gringos saing that they must kill people they do not even know becouse "eventually" they would put " a bullet in owr head", and "the good guys" must kill "the bad boys", will be another reazon to us to say Bobos.

Gringoinbogota
"They did the same thing in Afghanistan a few years ago but don’t seem to say much about it these days that things are progressing well there"

Do you mean that their petroleum is been a USA property? that islamic culture is been destroyd? that Afganistan is a dammed third world country? Thiks are progresing in Afganistan for the USA not for Afganistan!!

Obviously, the USA goverment duty was to make thiks better for USA not for Afganistan... but wait a minute, Bush incrised the OIL price, so there was no beneffit for the gringos, only for USA companies.. Plese, be realist!!
And, About Japan... How can you be proud of the biggest genozide in the histoy? Think that gringos almost were craisy afther 9/11 and there were only 3000 deads (if I remmember well), how can you laugh of a genozide if you allready know some little pine?... oh... of course... I remmember "you have the right"


This is just the true!!

This is just the true!!

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adela says on Jan 20, 2005, 12:15:

"I know three Colombianas that work in a coffee shop here in the U.S. that all married the first guy that asked them just to avoid deportation": I sincerely, don't understand at all why most US people are always talking about themselves as kings of the earth. Why this poeple doesn't realize where the US power comes from...

Màs fe, màs abrazos, màs besos, màs disculpas, màs visitas a nuestros amigos antiguos nos haràn màs plenos cada vez.

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jccg says on Jan 20, 2005, 12:15:

Be an inperioum do not need be smart... It is enough not to have consciece, or do you think the AUC and the FARC are full of smart people, NO, they are full of cruel people and killers , and the most of them (the soldiers) are pretty stupids...

An smart people, if needed, will fight for its principies and belives and beloved... not for politician that sais "it is patriotic" to fight for him

This is just the true!!

This is just the true!!

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jccg says on Jan 20, 2005, 12:18:

Calling terrorist to anyone that do not want to be slave... of the USA imperioum is not so smart...

This is just the true!!

This is just the true!!

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elmodefoque says on Jan 20, 2005, 12:22:

i always tell my kids "you lucky bastards, your passport says Born: new york, New york, USA nowhere does it say colombia. my bullshit american passport says born: colombia!!! the usa the so called "bobos" will rule the world for many many years to come, and i'll still be a freaking burra loving colombia modefoque.
even the colombians still have legal claim to my sorry ass, that's why they wont let me in, i need a colombian passport and a freaking cedula.

I'll get there, when I get there!

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elmodefoque says on Jan 20, 2005, 12:27:

but her hair color is so pretty, she looks like a big rat

I'll get there, when I get there!

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Albatross says on Jan 20, 2005, 12:28:

Pablo / Adela Pablo - I suppose you're implying that I was a bobo for hoping to date a married woman.
But I meant when she was single. (She just got married...)

Adela - Yo entiendo... no somos los reyes del mundo... pero tenemos el dinero.

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

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pablo says on Jan 20, 2005, 13:49:

Albatross That's what I was pointing out. Implication withdrawn. It's good to hear you weren't messing with a married woman.

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lpdiver says on Jan 20, 2005, 17:24:

Bobo's I suppose it never occured that a person could be a "bobo" in one aspect of their life and extremely sharp in others. In general most men are bobo's when it comes to women.

Put them in a foreign culture with beautiful women and let them have sex with the beautiful women and they lose all intellect they ever had. Of course it could happen to them here in the USA...if they had tons of money. But what we consider moderately sucessful is tons of money.

Also the Colombianas get "from what I have been told" a much harsher treatment from men in their own countries.

"cook some rice!"

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timmy says on Jan 20, 2005, 17:30:

amen nice to read something here that is well thought out, not just reactionary. A lot of Americans don't seem to realise how offensive our foriegn policy can be or that it's not cool to say or infer that we are somehow better than everyone else and therefore deserve special treatment while in other countries.

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juanalejo says on Jan 20, 2005, 17:41:

given up I think we should try to keep this thread to Colombia, I have given up on trying to explain a different point of view to Americans. Those from the land of the free will simply not open their minds to try and understand something different other than what they want to believe. It is their problem, and that is the way it has to be. Let them live.

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BoricuaMorena says on Jan 20, 2005, 18:12:

Tired of the bashing I am tired of reading about who is better, who has more money and who is more cultured. Every culture and country has corruption, ignorance and problems. The desire to put others down to make yourself look better is a negative aspect of human nature. What I find comical about this is that most of the men here doing culture bashing are hot for foreign women who come from an “inferior” culture. So what does that say??

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utopiacowboy says on Jan 20, 2005, 18:24:

It says we're gringo losers?

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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lpdiver says on Jan 20, 2005, 18:29:

Bobo I think we would have a better understanding and be less offended if we replaced "bobo" with "blonde"...or am I just having a blonde moment?

"cook some rice!"

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stevens says on Jan 21, 2005, 04:43:

GringoinBogota "In Japan everyone is given a test at young age and then a decision is made based on this test whether they go on to study in the universities or they study how to put fenders on cars. The people who put the fenders on the cars are not around much to demonstrate their intellectual skills to the world."
You're way off the mark here. I'm an educator in Japan and there is no such test. However, there are entrance tests for all levels of schools if they are prestigious.
I'm also surprised that given your obvious intelligence you think things are going well in Afganistan. The vote was just window dressing. Opium production is up to pre-Taliban levels, and the Karzai government only controls a few square miles of Kabul.

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kernow62 says on Jan 21, 2005, 05:00:

Yes, but the US controls the oil pipeline. I think that is what GIB was referring to.

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lanegratomasa says on Jan 21, 2005, 05:28:

BUT WHY? "Can we all just get along?

Rodney King
April 29th 1992




No one dies a virgin, Life screws us all.

-Michael J. Trent

No one dies a virgin, Life screws us all. -Michael J. Trent

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gabo says on Jan 21, 2005, 13:42:

a long way to go As an American Citizen I apologise for all bobo gringos, including myself when I am prone to it. I wasn't born in the USA and spent the first 7 years of my life in another country. Afterwards I lived in new york city, so I can't really say i am a typical american, since I grew up with white people being the minority (a blessing for a person of color such as myself). The united states doesn't oppress Colombia? Please please I didn't say all failing states problems are the united states fault, lets just talk specifics. Are there policies that are deterimental to many countries. Yes. Lets talk about PLAN colombia, lets talk about companies such as coca cola, nestle and BP hiring paramilitaries to kill union leaders. On second though lests not I just remembered thsi is the friendly part of the forum. America being a super power is something not to be bragged about. 45 million people are on prozac, cancer is on the rise, 45 million people no access to affordable health insurance, child poverty, alienation. Sheesh there is a reason we are all on this site! Because Colombia provides us with something are own country generally lacks! I love you all and have found all your comments fruitful.

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utopiacowboy says on Jan 21, 2005, 15:59:

You're right, Gabo, the US is an awful place. It really sucks. I guess this is why my wife plans to petition for all her brothers and sisters after she gets her citizenship. So they can all eventually share in her misery. I keep telling them that all the posters here, most of whom do not actually live in Colombia, think they should stay home but you know how it is. You can't tell anybody anything.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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ARMacleod says on Jan 21, 2005, 16:04:

utopia I am your long lost brother And so is my wife, and my kids. Can you get us into that horrible US of A. we collectively need to feel unhappy!

Being of unsound mind and dubious disposition, I cannot be held legally liable for any indiscretions."¡El diablo me hizo hacerlo!" But don't worry, be happy.

The brain is like a parachute, it only functions correctly when it is open. Pax vobiscum.

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kernow62 says on Jan 21, 2005, 16:15:

As usual GIB cannot read. I never said oil supply from Afghanistan, I said oil pipeline. Of course it makes sense to protect this vital pipeline, and I agree with the reasons for clearing the Taliban out of the country. The Taliban needed to be taken care of, but now the people of Afghanistan are left with a flattened country, the capital is a pile of rubble. Hopefully things will get better for them.

The US however fails to understand, just like the British before them, that Afghanistan & Iraq and countless other nations are comprised by groups of factions that cannot stand each other, how can such a "nation" be a democracy like the US would like to envisage? There will always be these rogue elements that will disrupt things unless all the various factions can be equally reperesented, or are perceived by the various factions to be so. I don't think this will happen, hopefully I am wrong and Bush is right. There is a first time for everything.

Something else that bothers me is the fact that all references to Sadam Hussein have been removed from school textbooks in Iraq. Does this seem right? It doesn't to me, after all don't German children learn about Hitler? Why erase history, we need to learn from our history. Besides what is going to happen when paren'ts talk about this period in their history with their children, won't people question why this was kept from the school curriculum.

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gabo says on Jan 22, 2005, 09:58:

The USA just because someone is clamoring to come here doesn't make this a great place. Its a question of choice and real choices. Do prostitutes choose their jobs? Yes and no. It would be highly insensitive to not look at the overall forces of immigration. Too many gringos have claimed grand status to the USA just because people want to come here. Look there are great things about the USA and good people, I don't see why you guys get hyper defensive in wanting to protect a country with such terrible history and terrible policies. In colombia I found peoples patriotism was linked to the culture, music, land NOT the govt. The rampant anti-americanism in the world and even the US now is not to ignore entirely. We must decipher it, pick and choose when it is rational and when its a knee-jerk response. Are you proud to be American? I am for the likes of vonnegut, jd salinger, bob dylan, marlon brando, all the best AMericans were sharp critics and activists of the USA. Both culturally and government. The suburbs, strip mall, consumer society, fast food, atom bomb, coca cola fat life styles are uniquely american inventions that poison the earth. We are in the belly of the beast. I feel sad anytime someone has to come here and leave their own homes. Because I know its just about money many times. Does that make us virtous that we have money and they don't?

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ColombianoX says on Jan 22, 2005, 10:34:

"Are you proud to be American? I am for the likes of vonnegut, jd salinger, bob dylan, marlon brando, all the best AMericans were sharp critics and activists of the USA."


Great post, Gabo! You left out Noam Chomsky, he he.


CX

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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ARMacleod says on Jan 22, 2005, 10:42:

Nice one gabo! I feel exactly the same about England, or the United Kingdom to be exact.

I never denigrate or rubbish any other country in the world, only my own. Not because I hate her, it is because I love her, I want her to change, I want her to be the best in the world. I would like everyone in the world to genuinely want to go and live in UK. then I would be proud. at the moment I am not proud, but I am trying to be.


Being of unsound mind and dubious disposition, I cannot be held legally liable for any indiscretions."¡El diablo me hizo hacerlo!" But don't worry, be happy.

The brain is like a parachute, it only functions correctly when it is open. Pax vobiscum.

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Cerealkiller says on Jan 22, 2005, 10:57:

The one that made me register This was the topic that made me register. I believe most colombians do think the average American citizen is a little thick and lacks the so-called malicia indigena -something I have never understood myself-, but then again I've heard those comments everywhere.
It is a little strange when you see how widespread this conception is, seems like it is one of the things uniting the nation...Colombians from every single social strata prefer dealing with Europeans, for considering them smarter, more elegant and respect European nationals a lot more even if they have never met a gringo before.
Doesnt that happen everywhere anyway? The average European often laughs at the "utter stupidity" of gringos . It is however, a ridiculous conception -I must admit Ive heard some very intelligent comments from gringos, dont tell anyone I said this ;).

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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PC says on Jan 22, 2005, 11:06:

What makes a Bobo? Well,

Since I make my living doing business with Colombians, I think I have a glipmse of what really motivates this notion.

Here in Colombia, you really have to watch your step especially in business. I am sorry to have to say it, but among certain segments of tht culture it seems like trying to rip each other off is a way of life. Even a spectator sport.

In the US we do it much more subtly, hiding details in written agreements and contracts. Since so much is done here on a hand shake, people tend to be very createive in how they rip each other off.

Gringos, on the other hand SEEM far more trusting and are easy targets for ripping off in this way. So they appear to be Bobo, just as the moronic Colombians who come to the US and try to set up a retail store in their house or apartment and get shut down immediately.

It comes from a lack of familiarity with the culture.

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utopiacowboy says on Jan 22, 2005, 13:28:

"Does that make us virtous that we have money and they don't?" No, does it make THEM any more virtuous that we have money and they don't? All this blah, blah, blah,...the US is evil. After a while people just tune it out. It's like annoying static on the radio. BTW what have you contributed to make the US less evil in your eyes, other than post nonsense on some internet site?

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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PC says on Jan 23, 2005, 09:45:

Another Perspective Here is another view of why Colombians view Gringos as Bobo. This one from my Colombian wife. She says it's because they are so open and law abiding.

She says it's deeply rooted in the culture here. Here after centuries of repression by the Spanish, the indigenous peopels (I mean all, not just indians, but mestizo, and purebred Spanish who were born here) all were treated like dirt by the Spanish.

The only way to survive was to develop a culture of deceipt and dishonesty. So when you have someone introduced to that culture who is from a culture that is seemingly much more open, they seem like they are constantly giving papaya. An absolute no-no here. Never give papaya, and if you see papaya you HAVE TO take it.

That's a way of life here. Gringos are always giving papaya with their big mouths and their bragging and their open attitudes.

What Colombians don't know, is that gringos are supreme experts at ripping people off too. We do it in different ways, mostly in writing and setting up unfair systems. But they don't see that until they get to a gringo country. Since so few here do. They really never know.

By the way, I don't really know if the above comment was addressed to me or someone else. It seems out of context with my comment but in case it was. My comment had nothing to do with virtue or money. It has to do with sociology, nothing more and was not a value judgement of any kind. Just a dispassionate description of what I have personally observed in my ten years of doing business here.

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jccg says on Jan 23, 2005, 09:59:

utopiacowboy... "You're right, Gabo, the US is an awful place. It really sucks. I guess this is why my wife plans to petition for all her brothers and sisters after she gets her citizenship. So they can all eventually share in her misery."

That is why Colombia is a third-world country, because it is full of people with a third-world-mind that think every thing is better in the USA, every one is rich in the USA, etc... is not only your family, there are to much people here that think they would become rich in the moment they land in USA.
I also have relatives that think that way, they go there, and live in missery waching toilets 16 hours at day, but when they come back, they deny it.

People here do not want to go there because the life is better... they want to go because they think there are oportunities there...

This is just the true!!

This is just the true!!

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jccg says on Jan 23, 2005, 10:07:

gabo, anti-americanism in the world... There is not such a thing... it is just another make-up of USA goverment. We do not hate gringos, we hate USA goverment policies.
We (the rest of the world... exept the talibans) know that the normal citizen in USA is just the same that in Mexico, Englad, Iraq, Canada, Colombia, etc... that just want to carri food to their family, have a decent job that allows him/her to have a life and grow up the childrens... share with friends, etc.
The imperialism is on the Goeverment, not in the people (almost not in all)

That was my opinion...

This is just the true!!

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utopiacowboy says on Jan 23, 2005, 11:37:

You guys remind me of my Russian sister-in-law. Yes, the one who refuses to believe that I have no locks on the doors to my house and that we are not dodging bullets all the time. So you are saying, jccg, that my wife, after a year of living here, does not know what she is talking about. You're right. She's in denial. She only imagines that life is good here in the little town in Texas where she lives. Do you really think Colombians are that stupid, that they do not talk to each other candidly about what life is like? I don't think the US is the be-all and the end-all - there are plenty of places in the world where you can have a good life. OTOH, I get sick and tired of all the US-bashing that goes on here.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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jccg says on Jan 24, 2005, 05:21:

Dear friend... What I am saying is that the people go there searching for an illusion, that is normally not found... Surely, in a little town life is more "pacific" i.e. no so much killing, nor robery, etc... and it would be a great change for some one who has lived inside of the vilolence that born from poberty... however, such a thing happend in little towns, in big cities is just the same...
Also, what made you (foreingers) to love Colombia is that you find in the people more tolerance, friendliness, and other virtues that are not so commun in your countri... then, when you are here you do not look at the poberty (violence)... as your wife is (probably) not looking to the racism and segregation that every latin-american suffers there.

And, again, we do not do any "US-bashing", we do an US-goverment-bashing, that is so different...

This is just the true!!

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utopiacowboy says on Jan 24, 2005, 07:49:

Sorry to disillusion you, jccg, but in Colombia, we do see the violence and the poverty. It's pretty hard to miss. On the other hand, it doesn't make us dismiss the entire country and overlook its many good points. Yes, there is discrimination in the US, it exists in Colombia as well. Actually if you read your posts above, you were in fact, bashing the country itself not the government: "they go there, and live in missery waching toilets 16 hours at day, but when they come back, they deny it." My wife and I know a friend of hers who lives in South Carolina, an illegal who works cleaning motel rooms. She does not deny what she does for a living, she is not living in misery and she does not want to go back to Colombia.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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jccg says on Jan 24, 2005, 11:18:

Dear cowboy... not every thing is about money... Latin-americans go to USA because there they would make money to support their families in their native countri... be able to feed your family with the most simple job is what make the difference between the first and the third world...
Live in misery is not only not have money... be lonely, discriminated, underestimate, know that nobody cares about you, not find anyone to trust, etc... is what made the life a misery for the people that go trougth the "hole".
Besides, if you read again the post you quoted, you will realize the quote you give is refering to the colombians that dream about a glorious life in USA, not about US people.

I hope it is clear...

This is just the true!!

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ARMacleod says on Jan 24, 2005, 12:04:

The other side of the coin? Staying with friends in Pennsylvania in a fairly (I thought) nice neighbourhood a few years ago, I got up to lock the car doors in the evening and was told "no need to do that, no one will interfere with it".

When the man of the house returned from work, I remarked that it was nice to be able to leave the car doors unlocked. His reply, "if you go back outside to lock them, people will think there is something worth stealing in it"

I am unsure as to the validity of his reasoning, but he never locked the house door on retiring, my wife could not sleep with the worry of it.

One of my children got a dog to keep a noisy presence in her house (in England) when she and her husband were at work.

When she came back in the evening the rear door had been forced but nothing had been taken, other than the dog?

Being of unsound mind and dubious disposition, I cannot be held legally liable for any indiscretions."¡El diablo me hizo hacerlo!" But don't worry, be happy.

The brain is like a parachute, it only functions correctly when it is open. Pax vobiscum.

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boomer says on Jan 24, 2005, 12:50:

Dear jccg I don't know where you live, although I am somewhat comforted by the fact that you live there and not here! I have read you opinions and have come to the conclusion that you are immigrating the term "Bobo" to your own dictionary (If the term fit's, wear it)! I reside in an area of the midwest, USA with a large Latino population. All of whom are happy to live and work here. The homes, cars, pay, medical benefits, insurance and education are WONDERFUL to them! Even in the midst of Midwest Winters! They are not Lonley, Discriminated, Underestimated, or otherwise abused. My wife is Colombian. She's been here 2 years and makes more income in one day than she made in Colombia in a month! She was a medical professional in Colombia and is here also. Sorry to say she's not cleaning toilets as you believe. The term "Bobo" actually refers to one who is nieve or gullable. Again, (if the term fit's, wear it)! Maybe you need to change your reading literature????????

Chao

orgullo_de_colombia

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juanalejo says on Jan 24, 2005, 13:30:

Every action creates a reaction This site was created with the sole purpose of showing people how in Colombia things are much better than the media makes the world believe. Unfortunatelly many of the threads quickly turn into Colombia bashing by some people who want to continue on the same line of the media around the world. This type of attitude which unfortunatelly tends to have a high percentage of American born or American dwellers only originates in a reaction of Colombians or others who live here or have had the time of their life here and who may have a very different opinion on how life in the USA. So if the threads are kept to a productive and objective answers rather than subjective or biased opinions on Colombia, I can assure Americans that the gringo bashing will quickly dissappear.

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utopiacowboy says on Jan 24, 2005, 14:04:

It seems to me the real consistent thing on this site is an incessant US-bashing. I guess some people in Colombia must console themselves with the thought that their 4 million compatriots in the US are miserable and scrubbing toilets all day while being called racist names. What absolute nonsense. You're right, jccg, it's not all about money but tell that to the kids in Santa Maria near my mother-in-law's finca who have no shoes and hardly any textbooks in their school. My wife was shocked that most children in the US go to public school and it is not necessary to pay for a private school in order to ensure that your children get any kind of education. You seem to have this little vision of what life must be like here and if it doesn't fit into your vision then it must not exist. Again I am not saying the US is the promised land but give us a break already.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Tinto (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Jan 24, 2005, 14:13:

Another consistency... posts almost always go downhill after 50 responses, plus it takes longer to get to the most recent message ;-)

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jccg says on Jan 25, 2005, 05:34:

boomer, did you read all the post? It seems to me you did not... the way you try to introduce the word bobo is just senceless... if you read all, you will realize that many of the latest post (including some of my own) are offtopic. Also, you'll realize that my post were an answer to a cowboy's post that imply that colombians want to go there, and I considered necesary to explain why and how this happend. And the consecuences that many ilegal suffers by this. The benefits you mention are for legal inmigrants... the ilegals that travel alone to find money to send to their families has another history.
I agree with some parts of the last cowboy's post, people go there because here is too hard to feed your family. If I have to choose between friends of food, I also choose food. Deny the problems of the countri where you/I live do not make them dissapear.
Cowboy acussed me of bashing to US... I have not done that, instead, when I seid something strong I was refering to the colombians that go blindly trought the "hole" and then pays for it. read again!

Ps: I agree with tito, this topic has been degenerated... and I have a couple of post in that line...

This is just the true!!

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umm says on Jan 25, 2005, 06:19:

For me GRINGO includes only the USA.
And the granmarica gringos are the bobos.
UMM

UMM

My Forum

Aldo says on Jan 25, 2005, 19:45:

Submitted by gringoinbogota on Fri, 01/21/2005 - 16:56.

"People in Colombia are some of the most isolated in the world and culturally stagnant. Americans on the other hand have the entire world in their back yard."

Yeah sure...

I'm doing my PhD in Physics and Chemistry at MIT, and a lot of people doing the really Hard Thinking Stuff around (Not just in MASS) is from overseas...

Orgullosamente Colombiano.... que hijueputas !!!

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Aldo says on Jan 25, 2005, 19:46:

By the way, los gringos si son bobos...

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go grin says on Jan 25, 2005, 20:05:

son bobos enough to put a freaking man on the moon, rise to be
the worlds most dominant power, and (as if that wasn't enough),
police the world to eliminate terrorists. I'm sure that there are
those that would rather us bobos to keep our hands in our back
pockets, but that is not going to happen, amigo.

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fzrdan says on Jan 25, 2005, 20:41:

Yeah aldo, where is MIT again? and Harvard? and Stanford? and Yale?. I could go on for quite awhile.

Why aren't you doing your phd in your own country? I am not saying you aren't wanted here. There is a reason a lot of the HARD thinking is being done here. If you are going for your PHD, you must be a smart person. Figure it out.

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umm says on Jan 25, 2005, 20:47:

go grin "police the world to eliminate terrorists."???
you mean get involved in other countrie's business and internal affairs and on the way to disturbing other people they drop loads of bricks. Everywhere they go they put their foot in it.
Re: education: Bush didnt even know where exactly Iraq was before the war started. I read this on BBC and not on FOX news.

BTW the Russians put the first person in space and not the USA.
At the end its not the mental capacity (in case of the USA) but the money that rules the world. Anyway, most scientists who did all this thinking are immigrants from Germany like Einstein, Oppenheimer....
Without those immigrants the USA would never have made it.



UMM

UMM

My Forum

fzrdan says on Jan 25, 2005, 20:53:

Yeah because we were so worried that it might kill someone so we sent a monkey first. Remember though that we never made it to the moon. It was all a setup on a Hollywood stage.

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utopiacowboy says on Jan 26, 2005, 12:40:

What rubbish! I have a degree in Computer Science from an American university with a 3.98 GPA. Sometimes I would be the only student in the class to get my programming assignment done on time. Even the Asian students would have to ask me for help! So much for the immigrants being smarter than we are....

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Albatross says on Jan 28, 2005, 08:24:

Ditto... Me too... it's disgraceful...

But Morgon, I thought you were done "posting on here"... but anyway, it sure is swell to have you back.

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

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bramafear says on Jan 28, 2005, 18:03:

American Ignorance Ever since my introduction to South America, I have had the feeling that South America will be the next frontier within the Western Hemisphere. But what will it be?

I also wonder why JFK visited Bogota in the short time he was President? This was a man of vision and dreams. What did he see?

I believe we have lost a lot when we lost visionaries in the White House such as Woodrow Wilson and others.

I believe today's current dilemma with Globalization overlooked the capabilities of South American resources. It would have been better to have our outsourcing within our hemisphere for the simple fact that we are able to trade more efficiently because of geographical proximity that trade balances would be beneficial both to the North, Central, & South Americas. But, once again, we failed due to vision and the long view.

America has been great in many things, and a massive failure in others. And I consider our relations one of those failures. Nation builders elsewhere I guess.

When I am in Bogota or in the country somewhere, I get such a RUSH from the freshness and vibrancy that is in the air... and I can't wait for things to be better when I return for good.

Cheers!
Bram

When can we pack our bags?

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moodm says on Feb 14, 2005, 22:55:

bobos well done !

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