Gringo Assassinated in Cali

chester says on Mar 30, 2007, 06:35:

sounds like politics and drug money involved

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cali373 says on Mar 30, 2007, 06:38:

I agree
I agree

Smile if you are a thinker!

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webmanco says on Mar 30, 2007, 06:45:

Many crazy people around. Ajuste de cuentas.

Don't wish it to anyone but I hope it was not a mistake. I mean got the wrong person. Many crazy people around, with don't much to do.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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Brians says on Mar 30, 2007, 07:17:

DG another example of the dangers of Colombia. Who knows what happened but like I said when shit goes bad it goes really bad. No grey areas. I know people say hey people die eveyday in USA. Philadelphia had 97 murders this year already. However not a lot of attorney's driving their car to the airport. The guy is dead and you almost hope there was something dirty with him otherwise it is a very sad story.

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billyb says on Mar 30, 2007, 07:18:

You mean like "did you hear about the late great DG?.... shot dead on a Bogota street. Got what he deserved though, heard he was a testafero for Rasguño. Too bad, he wrote some interesting shit on PBH" ;)

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miamimike says on Mar 30, 2007, 07:30:

Hard to say what the reasons were with the Info given in the article. Suffice to say, he(and his wife) had a lot of exposure in Col and this alone made him and his wife extremely vulnerable. A person disclosing a lot of their Info on the Web(even here on PBH), money transfers for Col Home purchases, businesses ect opens themselves up for the world to see,,, Not to mention his website he had for all the world to see... He was extremely visible to say the least,,,Who knows, he may have crossed someone in his work as an Attorney. It hardly appears a Random Hit,,,

Don Gringo, what you write has Validity! In 2000 I was looking at purchasing a Internet Cafe in Suba but a Colombian Friend advised against it and the reason was just as you mentioned. That is, once the word gets out you are a Gringo(and where you reside in Bogota) and you own a good business, they come around and ask for the Propina and if you don't come up with it, there can be Hell to pay, one way or another,,,This was a Colombian Business Person's Advice to a Gringo,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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arthur brode says on Mar 30, 2007, 08:10:

It was probably a political hit on his wife. politicians are a target.the Gringo just happened to Marry the wrong one.and there are plenty of gringos that own buisneses here in Cali that dont pay "Propina"

http://www.calirentals.net/

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miamimike says on Mar 30, 2007, 08:39:

AB-just how many Gringos Own Businesses In Colombia and how many do or don't pay the propina is conjecture at this stage. I doubt if an accurate poll or study has ever been done on the issue. What I posted was what a life long Colombian told me, it wasn't Gringo talk but a Colombian speaking,.,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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chester says on Mar 30, 2007, 09:12:

well the lady apparently did charity work, but she also was related to a political candidate as well as involved in politics herself...I retract the 'drugs' comment...just leave it at politics or mafia shakedown hit for demands of protection money from the couples business enterprises...they looked like they had money by Colombian standards....I do not blame the victim, I blame the pitiful Colombian society....not that the so called 'blessed by God Himself' US society is any better

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arthur brode says on Mar 30, 2007, 09:36:

So Colombians dont talk B.S.? Off the top of my head.There is the Cali Plaza Hotel owned by a North American,Blues Brother Bar owned by a North American,La Pesebrera Bar owned by a North American.And iam sure that there are plenty more buisneses in Cali that are owned by Gringos.

http://www.calirentals.net/

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Wastelandlive says on Mar 30, 2007, 09:59:

Nice website. Looks like an interesting guy. Imagine: an American goes to Colombia, and marries his professional and intellectual equal.

What a tragedy. For him, his wife, and for Colombia, which desperately needs decent people...

Wasteland

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miamimike says on Mar 30, 2007, 10:09:

AB-but how do you know for sure who and who isn't Paying the "Mordida"? Do you really think those who are paying would talk about it publicly? That is the question,,,I know of one Cuban American who had a very Visible Car Rental Franchise by the Bogota El Dorado Airport and his Dad, who resides in Miami, told me he had "problems" a few years ago. He has since sold the Franchise his Dad informed me a few months back.

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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poco says on Mar 30, 2007, 10:11:

When your summons comes I know they all have this look like they wonder if they will be invited to my funeral or something.

Funny and true I'm sure.

When someone on the same block dies it seems to obligatory to go to the funeral. ie: Walk behind the Hearse to the grave yard.

You can always depend on your neighbors. I'd bet having a Poker Stand with free beer would guarantee a big turnout.

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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southern151 says on Mar 30, 2007, 10:12:

What a shame... The real shame is that I think, as someone mentioned above, he posted too much about himself in his site. He told the whole world that he was loaded.

Who knows why it happened for sure but it is done now. I don't know of too many "good guy" attorneys but it sounds like he could have been one of them. It sounds like he enjoyed helping people, according to his website.

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Mar 30, 2007, 10:18:

He was also in the dating/marriage business www.latinwomenconnection.com/about.htm

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Mr. Hollywood says on Mar 30, 2007, 10:21:

Sad I guess RetireinColombia.com is going to have to change its tagline, "The perfect retirement paradise."

This is very sad. My first instinct was that someone doesn't want Mr. Diego Ramos running for office. Whether it was a mistake and the sicarios hit the wrong guy, or whether they hit his son-in-law and daughter to send a message, we'll never know. And the possibility that they were victims of extortion would make sense, too.

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calipro says on Mar 30, 2007, 10:25:

I met Robert and his wife back when he owned a little casino on the sexta called vive las vegas.

He seemed like a nice enough guy but he obviously pissed somebody off because this was definately a hit.

I don't think the hitmen here in Cali are much for detective work. That is why it is to your advantage to let very few ever know where the hell you live and where you go on a regular basis.

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webmanco says on Mar 30, 2007, 10:26:

Nothing to do with this case But helping people not always made good persons. I so then Escobar would be a saint.

That is the deal some people are doing bad things under the table threatening others, stealing, lying etc, then turn around and start helping people, adopting kids, giving out gifts etc.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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caslug says on Mar 30, 2007, 10:50:

I talked w/ Robert.. on my first trip to COL. I rented his apartment in la flora, he seem like a nice guy. at that time he was spending most of his time in CT, USA and his wife was handling his COL business(dating and apartment rental business). Talk about small world!

Hopefully they can find the killer and get to the bottom of this.

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mecca says on Mar 30, 2007, 11:49:

A real shame for sure, All too often there is no final conclusion of why exactly, only speculation. I never knew or met him but hope he rests in peace.

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Lowell says on Mar 30, 2007, 11:55:

changes my attitude. I'm starting to wonder if it's not best for Gringo living in Colombia to live as below the radar as possible. Ie: me not creating a yahoo group and less posting on PBH.....

Alfred E. Newman. "What. Me Worry?"

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scotty says on Mar 30, 2007, 12:20:

more info I posted earlier today asking about this shooting but for some reason my post was deleted??? Im wondering if anyone here has any real news about this. Does anyone here have any first hand or second hand news about this shooting?

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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aztec says on Mar 30, 2007, 13:12:

AB, I don't believe the statement! "and there are plenty of gringos that own buisneses here in Cali that dont pay "Propina""

I believe that in fact most successful businesses in Colombia pay it! We almost purchased a very nice apartment from a rich businessman who was paying. He had had enough. His wife and children already lives in the States. He was stuck because he has a very successful and large operation.

If you are successful in business in Colombia every crook from the street kid to the mafioso has a piece of you. Unless you pay protection to the "BIG" boys.

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El Primo says on Mar 30, 2007, 13:36:

Live your life not others. I wish I have the luxury of being afraid of such incidents but with a wife and two children that do not what to leave their Colombia I do not...

If in fear I would like to remind people of the pre-Gulliani years in NY.... Could not go almost anywhere without fearing. Murder for designer optics (without the lenses) sneakers and other clothing, etc.

I have to live for my family not some assassin; boy I wish I had the time and brains to fear....

El Primo formerly Cousin (until I lost password and Email address to retrieve password).

Los IV

Los IV

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miamimike says on Mar 30, 2007, 14:18:

Good Advice Calipro !! "I don't think the hitmen here in Cali are much for detective work. That is why it is to your advantage to let very few ever know where the hell you live and where you go on a regular basis."
=====================================================================

I agree with you 100% on this one! Why invite headaches,,,

El Primo-I regularly walked the streets
of NYC pre-Guliani and never had a bit of trouble. This included times Square when it was the "Old Times Square" complete with Pervs, Peek Shows and the other unsavory types that used to inhabit the Area. Around 1980 a Buddy I shipped with in the Merchant Marine decided not rent a room when we payed off on a ship in Brooklyn and instead went to an all night Peep movie to sleep in a movie seat; when he woke up his back pocket was slit and his wallet and $7K were gone. This was inviting trouble but otherwise then his Dumb Move, never had the least bit of trouble before Or after Guliani came in as Mayor. Granted now the area is asthetically more pleasing to the eye. Dumb Move by Victim = Dumb equal re-action by thief,,,LOL

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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southern151 says on Mar 30, 2007, 14:21:

Wait a minute... Your friend had $7k in his pocket and was too cheap to rent a room? That guy had it coming!

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morphus says on Mar 30, 2007, 14:41:

Dead Gringos? Is'nt that what everybody wants?

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miamimike says on Mar 30, 2007, 15:34:

Southern 151,,,Yep He was Penny wise Dollar foolish and just plain DUMB,,,LOl 90 days work out at Sea and lost in one night,,,That was Good money in 1980 but still hard deckwork, actually he had to earn about $10,000 approx to clear that $7000 back then,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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Miguel says on Mar 30, 2007, 16:26:

Gringos in business in B/Quilla Like aztec said...you pay the big boys to keep the little boys from cleaning your fucking clock.

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arthur brode says on Mar 30, 2007, 16:28:

believe what you want I just spoke with the owner of the Cali Plaza Hotel.He says that he has never been approached for extortion the two years he has been in buisness here in Cali.

http://www.calirentals.net/

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panthdave says on Mar 30, 2007, 17:00:

Will this case be pursued and will True Facts Come Out. Try to read the comment.Sorry to see this but you know this happens everywhere Politics and Money.. But like I said i would like to see if detectives will pursue the killers and true facts will come out..



panthdave Miami

panthdave Miami

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arthur brode says on Mar 30, 2007, 17:15:

good advice Calipro but it shouldnt be too hard to find a Gringo in Cali if you wanted to. just go to Chipichape mall on a Friday night.

http://www.calirentals.net/

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rocinante says on Mar 30, 2007, 18:29:

Under the radar Truly a sad story. I visited the website and call me morbid but I called the Connecticut number and heard the guy's voice. We'll probably never know what happened.

I'm a firm believer in being under the radar as well. In Medellín I like being among the normal every day folks.

There are many Ricos in Medellín that have armed guards with them at all times. They live in gated communities and know they are a target. What kind of life is that?

My advice is if you are going to live in CO and don't want to be a target or have to live like I described in the paragraph above is: be a poor cheap MF'er. Rent/live in a estrato 3. Don't buy anyone anything. The story is you have no family back in the US and that you make slightly over minimum wage - a monthly check or whatever job you do. Get fluent with the language and work, work, work on the accent.

PS: Also it's possible to live in a nice new highrise if you need newer amenities, doorman, inside parking etc... in an estrato 3.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

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arthur brode says on Mar 30, 2007, 18:41:

or you can buy this nice estrato 3 house for 135 million pesos http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=15200002&uid=5831975&members=1

http://www.calirentals.net/

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rocinante says on Mar 30, 2007, 18:47:

Wrong Forum Brodster Arthur the renting/realestate forum has it's own tab.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

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Mr. Hollywood says on Mar 30, 2007, 18:54:

Arthur I'm sure the owner of that hotel appreciates you posting that he's ripe for the picking.

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arthur brode says on Mar 30, 2007, 19:54:

almost everyone here knows anyways .

http://www.calirentals.net/

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arthur brode says on Mar 30, 2007, 21:27:

maybey he does appreciate the free advertising .

http://www.calirentals.net/

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goin_south says on Mar 30, 2007, 21:52:

then, you could post fotos of him and his place Damn; I hope it ain't the same guy in that foto at the bottom of the thread entitled: Desperately seeking colombianas. Part II

U can run but you can't hide

Ciao! Gustav.

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utopiacowboy says on Mar 30, 2007, 21:58:

I have to laugh thinking about the idea that the sicarios will be apprehended! Right. I am sure that they are still looking for the guys that bumped off my wife's father. Or her husband. Geez, I still have that bridge for sale, CHEAP.

The only way to live in Colombia is not to have to watch your back. Let Uncle Sal and DB watch it.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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arthur brode says on Mar 30, 2007, 22:05:

http://www.caliplaza.com/ .

http://www.calirentals.net/

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joeylove007 says on Mar 31, 2007, 00:37:

Shocking to me but not surprised in Cali I met Robert when he owned Viva Las Vegas on sexta. I helped hom with a contact when the DIAN was holding a lot of his new slot machines. He was still married to Giovanna from the web site "Casa de Amor".
I liked him and he treated me fair over the years. Saw him with his new wife in Chippicappi a couple of years ago. She never hit me as the straight shooter. Robert and his wife seemed to have thier goals set for much higher limits in Cali.
He also carried a grudge against his ex (Gio)and her boyfriend "Brian". He would call him a "worm". I was a member on the Casa de Amor site at the time. They (Gio & Brian) found out I was a friend to Robert. Both Giovanna and the 'worm' (Brian) made up vicious lies about me to the ladies on site and then booted me off the site. I promised Brian I was going to kick his ass all over Colombia if I ever saw him there. He has not and will not travel to Colombia,(sleazy yellow worm).
Robert did have reason to despise them both. Brain was working for Robert before, but was dipping into his 'mujer' when he wasn't around. As per Robert, he met Giovanna 'rumbiando' in one of the clubs in ave sexta; became her 'novio'; gave her a better life and then she nails her ex-colombian boyfreind before her honeymoon and gets knocked up! Talk about double dipping!
Maybe he was over his head with his 2nd wife in Cali, but he definetly did not deserve to be murdered. No one does. May God have mercy on his soul.

Trust no one...except God. Hope to retire in Colombia

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chester says on Mar 31, 2007, 06:16:

el pais story today poor english translation from free translation site

-------------------------------------------------------------


The authorities presume that the murder of the American one Robert Marshall Vignola, occurred on Thursday night past in Cali, themselves due to revenges.

Sicarios since a motorcycle they shot in eight opportunities to Marshall Vignola. The wife of this, Beatriz Branches, niece of the preliminary candidate to the Government of the Valley Diego Branches, got injured.

Marshall, who worked in real estate, had arrived at Cali two weeks ago to visit its wife.

At the moment in which the sicarios, armed with guns nine millimeters, they shot to the couple, this was directed toward the airport, since the foreigner was going to travel to his country.

The Judicial Police verifies if a taxi that was in the place had relation with the crime.

------------------------------------------------------------------

anyway, this couple was involved with adoptions, real estate, marraige brokers, politics, etc...

anyone of these areas could be reason for a hit.

but, while it is one thing to put out a hit on a gringo, it is another to cause injury to a colombiana from such a connected family.

in my opinion, who ever ordered that hit will be looking over their shoulder for the rest of however their short lives may be.

I don't care if they go to china, someone, someday will pop out of a bowl of rice and bust a cap on them.

I wonder how much the bounty is up to now.

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webmanco says on Mar 31, 2007, 07:56:

Extorsion is not that rampant I doubt very much it was an extorsion, how do yo know they were escaping the country and not coming back, even if that is the case nothing says it was an extorsion, many times there is money involved, someone is pissed of for a business gone bad or for "Lios de Faldas".

Women drive us crazy.

The best thing to do is,
Keep a low profile, mind your own business and don't piss people.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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Lowell says on Mar 31, 2007, 08:05:

Burn it I don't draw much attention to myself here. However, it doesn't hurt to be extra careful. I burn anything that has the slightest possibility of providing info about myself. Including the envelopes. Atm slips are shredded and flushed or burned and flushed.

Alfred E. Newman. "What. Me Worry?"

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aztec says on Mar 31, 2007, 08:12:

webmanco, Do you have reason to believe... ...it was not extortion? We all can benefit from your observations on the real reason for the execution.

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webmanco says on Mar 31, 2007, 08:20:

DG, having a big mouth By the same token I can't said it was an "ajuste de cuentas" I can't not confirm it was an extorsion. All I said is that I doubt it was an E.

Don't need only to own a big business, having a big mouth and believing you are God sent can get people the same end.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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robi666 says on Mar 31, 2007, 08:50:

DG Good post about dangers but the very FIRST thing Colombian assume when a businessman get killed is that someone owed money to him.
I am not saying that this was the case, just it is the first thing to think about.
Lend money is the most dangerous thing someone can do here: it is so easy that it would cost less an hit than return the money. And those rich people are real sharks: up to 20% per month. It is so common, too.
And be sure that everyone knew the couple know why they have been shot. There are no secrets here, and the reasons are always evident.

what we do in life... echoes in eternity.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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miamimike says on Mar 31, 2007, 09:55:

The Article mentioned They were Into Adoptions Also and this, in many Latin AMerican Countries, is a Hot Button Issue. I believe that in Guatemala and Mexico the word is that some Americans who deal with less then scrupulous Adoption AGencies have been targeted for "Hits" also as the locals see it as a form of Kidnapping from the Country's poor by the wealthy Americans from the North. No matter these Kids in most cases would have a much better life and brighter future. Look at the Recent Contraversy a few months ago when Madonna adopted that little black Kid and later how the Baby's father changed his story to how Madonna more or less stole the Child! A few Years back this(mexico/guatemala issue) was on 20/20 or 60 minutes and it generated some pretty intense feelings of hatred towards those responsible for the Adoption and those Americans doing the Adopting. I am not familiar with the extent of Adoptions in Colombia but this is only another possibility as to why this Couple was targeted.

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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morphus says on Mar 31, 2007, 10:36:

Lisa Left-eye I just read an article about it. They said 3 weeks before her accident and death, her driver ran over a 10 year old Hondurian boy. She paid $3700 for the funeral and gave the parents another $925.

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robi666 says on Mar 31, 2007, 10:39:

Rubito, it's not a matter of crying. When you live here you'll discover that it is far more difficult to stay away from troubles, willing or not... and if I understand how you are (and I am the same), you'll see it is even harder. Some people like to live in an "outlaw" country, someway.

what we do in life... echoes in eternity.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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Miguel_Clavo says on Mar 31, 2007, 11:20:

Sombody whacking Baghdad Bob of Bogota? That would be just plain awfullllll...=).....Hmmm....adoption agency owner, lawyer, marriage broker, casino operator, retire in colombia scam, jealous ex, three-way love affairs, political connections...yep, must be that he didnt make his monthly extortion payment.....and to think that one person's speculation is more "factual" and "credible" than anothers.....i agree with webmanco, acting like God and a big mouth has its own just rewards.....jajajja...

Just my opinion...and brought to you by a kinder and gentler

Miguel_Clavo =).....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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manINred says on Mar 31, 2007, 12:52:

Bad stuff does happen to good people. And that type of killing generally indicates that someone had it coming, but we have no evidence of that yet, and let's say it was for something minimal like sleeping with another dude's novia, or some money issues, still inexcusable.

In Colombia, there doesn't seem to be enough respect for a human life.

I am personally a victim (almost killed) of violent crime, and I did not deserve it/have it coming.

I saw this documentary done recently of a terrible barrio in Medellin, it showed this old woman lying dead in the street, having been shot by someone. She didn't deserve it, she was just doing her groceries.

I also know good honest people who have family that has been extorted or worse for no reason other than that they have a bit of wealth, but then again have passed dead guys in the street who were involved in drugs. One homeless dude in the street, one of those street vendors, asked some money from a lady near where i was staying, the lady got scared by his panhandling (for some reason), so did he, and he backed away. She left, and a few minutes later a few blokes came round and shot the poor dude. No one did anything, just another guy involved in a terrible mix-up.

I think people more people get offed in Colombia that absolutely don't deserve it than we think, whether this American was one of them... who knows?

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robi666 says on Mar 31, 2007, 13:22:

...

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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utopiacowboy says on Mar 31, 2007, 13:26:

What an amusing thread. "In Colombia, there doesn't seem to be enough respect for a human life." There is NO respect for human life, punto. Life is cheap when you can pay a woman less than $10 for washing and cleaning your house all day or $20 for full service sex or $50 to have someone killed. Which is why gringos have no business there.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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vladimiro says on Mar 31, 2007, 13:44:

I think they should kill a few more of these people.

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southern151 says on Mar 31, 2007, 14:42:

vladimiro... Does that mean that you want a few more N. Americans killed or that you think that a crooked person should be killed? If it is the latter, I agree. If it is the first, I am baffled. Whatever your declaration may mean, it is up to you.

To me, it sounds like this man was playing with fire well before this happened. As I have said before, the only reason this is even on the news is because he was a US citizen. The media(and many of the people here) glorify the situation way beyond proportion. This is one man out of how many "gringos" living in the country? There are, I am sure, many more that live their life peacefully in Colombia than are killed there. "Which is why gringos have no business there." is a total crock! Gringos have no business going there and putting themselves in the spotlight. That's the bottom line. Hell, the same applies in the US as well.

HMMM, a wealthy man, going to a "poorer" area here and telling the entire world that he is selling love, adoption and whatever else he can get his hands on to make a lot of money...The outcome will be the same...Bottom line. Oh yeah, he's connected to politics as well?...Damn sure looking to buy the farm!

I agree with a poster from before, whoever did this also hurt a politician's daughter. Their few short days left in this world will be lived in total fear if they have a lick of sense! Who knows, maybe the politician put the hit on for messing around on his daughter?

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Miguel_Clavo says on Mar 31, 2007, 15:01:

According to the 5th Reincarnation of ColombiaMike, JB, V5, and now VasodeCoffee in his duplicate post (guess he doesnt look before making dup posts, as he posts purely for self-serving propaganda purposes), do you think this about the dead gringo had some influence on his timely or untimely death?

"In addition to the "matrimonial service," Vignola had a casino in Cali that went bankrupt and left him with considerable debts, Moore said.

Moore said Vignola, whose age he gave as between 50 and 52, had financial problems in the United States, but said he had no details."


Just my opinion...and brought to you by a kinder and gentler

Miguel_Clavo =).....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Miguel says on Mar 31, 2007, 20:04:

UC Fifty bucks to 86 somebody? According to a DAS report I read in EL HERALDO a few months ago, the prices ranged from $125 to $300, depending on who you wanted to eliminate. Man, you are connected!

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rocinante says on Mar 31, 2007, 20:42:

$50 is TOO friggin' high. Obviously UTC was thinking of an old exchange rate. COP$100.00 = USD$46. Two 16 year olds on a 125 CC moto. They have no fear, a handgun and a real need or the money. And the price doesn't go up if it's someone famous. As long as they are accessable (read: leaves the house) they are toast. If you are a gringo and don't have a local to front you, you probably pay more (double or a bit less) to order a hit but gringos pay gringo tax on just about everything.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

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webmanco says on Mar 31, 2007, 21:14:

a few Colombians are happy threatening There is not rule in Colombia, to have kill anybody that threatens you before he/she does you. To threaten someone is easy to do, but to get to do it in reality is a different thing.

I had been threatened before and it might not be the last time. It is sad to say that a few Colombians are happy threatening people left and right, (mostrando el cobre) that is what I call been a dumbass.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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billyb says on Mar 31, 2007, 21:37:

No Rubi', actually..... the price is as low as $20 US if you don't need it to be professional.

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billyb says on Mar 31, 2007, 21:44:

Yeah, but who really... cares?

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utopiacowboy says on Mar 31, 2007, 22:22:

I hate to say it, Rubi, but a lot of people don't think of Hallmark ("when you care enough to send the very best") in hiring sicarios. Like the guys who shot my wife's neighbor in the head when they missed their intended victim. Only in Colombia would this incident be referred to as an "accident".

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Gomezman5 says on Mar 31, 2007, 22:23:

DonGringo It's nice to see that when I am not around these parts, there is at least one person who has common sense, and it is not timid about identifying the more likely cause for this man's death, as opposed to blaming the Gringo. People here are so full of BS, that I have come to the conclussion that they all like to pontificate such silliness, but they only do it to each other in the same way that one would "preech to the choir" They would not dare say the nonsense in a public setting, because they would get laughed at.

The only mistake that this Gringo did was being a rich gringo living in Cali Colombia. There were payments to be made and he either fell behind, or didn't pay. That's all. It's bad enough living being a rich Colombian in Colombia. When you are a rich gringo living in Colombia, you're a target, all the time,.... every day you step out that door. On second thought, you're not even safe in your own house. Sure, I could get whacked in Chicago simply by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. But, I don't have to worry one hoot about someone looking to extract money out of me for my ass to stay on this earth. The only payment I have to worry about making is the mortgage, and if I don't pay it, nobody is going to knock me off.

I fell sorry for you DonGringo. I do. Because you will never convince these stupid fools who think they know what Colombia is all about, but in reality, they're as clueless as auto mechanic would be if he had to work in a bakery.

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bamapits3 says on Mar 31, 2007, 22:51:

yes sir....... I am glad this was posted, this just shows what happens when you go to someones country and get intot he wrong things....You should love colombia for the country, the women are only extra, but those agencies are pretty much Prostitution hubs, I mean those women will sleep with you if you tell them you are going to marry them and bring them to the states. I dont know the guy,but these colombian guys with power dont want americans coming and doing this to there women, its not about them knwoing them or not, its about its there colombianas, it wont change, and if you dont want that to be you next then just go down to colombia and act normal, this shoudlnt stop anyone from going, just falunting... :-).....and on that caliplaza, i think I saw that on e-bay for sale...it has been on there for a few months....its not on now, the time ran out, check in a week...

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Miguel_Clavo says on Mar 31, 2007, 23:03:

State your evidence, or are you pulling things out of your ass?? One of what, 8 million people in Bogota and living there, what 4-6 years, makes your opinion any more credible than, say The Big A??? hardly...your opinion and your experience in Colombia is only 1 person's experience and opinion (not fact) in a population of 8 million, so to be quite blunt, (deleted) and your groupie G5, your opinion is like one amoeba in a sea of shit.....Your speculation, and that of G5 is just that...PURE speculation, not based on any facts whatsoever directly related to this investigation.......so to say you know what happened, or even to pretend to know, or to write like you know what happened, like you were some kind of expert, makes your credibility drop in to the negative zone.... (deleted)
Just my opinion...and brought to you by a kinder and gentler

Miguel_Clavo =).....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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goin_south says on Mar 31, 2007, 23:48:

Hummmh. U can run .... maybe; maybe not.

Ciao! Gustav.

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aztec says on Apr 1, 2007, 05:40:

G5... "Sure, I could get whacked in Chicago simply by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. But, I don't have to worry one hoot about someone looking to extract money out of me for my ass to stay on this earth. The only payment I have to worry about making is the mortgage, and if I don't pay it, nobody is going to knock me off."

Gomezman5 has succinctly provided the difference in the problem many posters on this site for some reason fail to grasp. If you are highly successful here in Colombia you are living with the constant threat and fear of extortion. I am not referring to street crime which in some cases may be worse in some other countries.

This is not to say you can't find extortion in the U.S. For example, the garbage business in New Jersey. The practice, however, does not permeate the whole U.S. culture like it does in Colombia.

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robi666 says on Apr 1, 2007, 06:29:

Aztec and G5 "If you are highly successful here in Colombia you are living with the constant threat and fear of extortion"
Define highly successful, please...
I know a lot of people that can be considered rich (for colombian standards) who does not live in fear for extortion. I guess it depends on your job and where you live: it's pretty different to be rich in Medellin or in Monteria, or to be a successful engineer or a disco owner. That said, I know that it is far more difficult to stay out of troubles here.
But I really don't think that you and G5 are meaning exactly the same thing...

So G5: ..."a rich gringo" living in colombia": what does it mean? Bank account of 100k USD or 1million or 10million? "One car" is rich or "two car" is rich? Being a rich gringo is different than being a rich Colombian? (by the way: it seems to me that being a gringo, you are not so "a easy target" for crime as a rich Colombian is. The killer of the Italian woman in Cartagena was madly crying after knowing that he killed a stranger: he knew they were after him ten times harder than if the victim was Colombian. In Santa Marta, the AUCs had the strict rule of not touching any people from US or Europe. So what?)
It seems that Rober Vignola was neither successful nor rich. He apparently was full of debts.
So please, explain better your concept and tell us what it has to do with this death, withouth being so VAGUE, so we can understand... if we can have a decent life in Colombia without having to worry everyday of being kidnapped or killed!

what we do in life... echoes in eternity.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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aztec says on Apr 1, 2007, 07:28:

robi666, Just search an earlier post... ...for a concrete example of relative from Cali, Colombia who is currently in the US on Temporary Protected Status!

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bamapits3 says on Apr 1, 2007, 21:37:

100k in colombia If you have 100K in colombia, to them you are rich, but you know you can not live off of 100k Without some kind of investment......Even if you were 50 plus, still 100K would only last so long.....If this was the case, I will be 21 this month, I would head to Colombia with my 100K and live the rest of my life, the grass isnt greener on the other side of this story. You better get about 250-300K to say you are comfortable.

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mecca says on Apr 1, 2007, 23:15:

Damn Rubito strato 7 !!!! With all due respect, that's heavy duty friends, never heard of the 7.. but if you've got friends there that trumps anything i've got... but i'm just a P-ON, so what do I know..

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raulinho says on Apr 1, 2007, 23:24:

If gringos want to live in Colombia they take the good with the bad. There are a lot of gringos there, one got killed, every day Colombians die for various reasons, many times for none. It seems like the scariest thing for people to contemplate is there may be no reason. Life there does not have the same security as it does in the U.S. or europe, if it did, internet brides would not be doing such a big business. If you are going to be scared of your life there, then don't go as you can't enjoy it. You have got to consider yourself very lucky to be a gringo there and have some money as nowhere else will you be so popular, so if there is a small negative side it is still worth it.

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Gomezman5 says on Apr 1, 2007, 23:26:

Aztec, DonGringo You two fine people should considered yourselves blessed, that God was able to provide you both with common sense. Sad to say that others around here are lacking in that department.

Note: if you have complains about moderation please use the proper channels to bring them to site administrator's attention.
Sincerely,
Desideria (acting as moderator)

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mecca says on Apr 1, 2007, 23:27:

Well put raulinho Now, that's a message that i'm hearing, and i hope others will also hear. Thanks for your words.

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mecca says on Apr 1, 2007, 23:39:

G5 I and many others love Colombia, I understand you do also. I know you, like many, have strong opinions. My question is for people like myself that like to travel there, what are your suggestions? I completely get what you are saying about the danger, etc. I want to stay safe, i'm no show-off, just want to be a respectful traveler. What are your ideas, suggestions, etc.

'Cause i don't want to give up Colombia, which I so dearly love.

This is written for any posters as an open question..

Thanks all in advance.

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goin_south says on Apr 1, 2007, 23:44:

jejeJE, JE, jeeejjaaaajee...jaaajeeejiii!!! geeez; this got pretty serious.

Put me in the Coche de Bebe Grande,
and take me awayyyy!
And give me something to smoke,
on the way, other than your Havana Cigar!

Ciao! Gustav.

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mecca says on Apr 2, 2007, 00:03:

yeahh baby....waz up Feliz... Hell yeah...sorry for getting so serious....I just want my coche???

Hows it going Feliz?? We gotta talk before you go south..

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mecca says on Apr 2, 2007, 00:08:

Rubito, same here putting down roots in Colombia...as I love that country.

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goin_south says on Apr 2, 2007, 00:34:

no pre-ocupado Rubito; From what I've seen in the past,
Gomezman5 will be kissin your ass en la manana, and saying you are the finest Canadian Immigrant to live East of the Mississippi.

((("Desi y Tinto, you guys [and gals!] are pretty disgusting")))
Oh, really, Gomezman?

Jajaaa... how many of the rest of the PBsH membership could proclaim such and still be alive to regurgitate it again in the morning?

Gomezman, how much did you send through paypal this month?
Oh; sorry.
It was an end-of-the-day April Fool's Joke, eh?

Do they do that in Colombia??? April Fool's?

Ciao! Gustav.

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webmanco says on Apr 2, 2007, 07:50:

his "words of wisdom" We all got a little wooden box waiting for us. We all get our chance to be in one of them. It does not matter if any self proclaimed non-colombian security expert believes that his "words of wisdom" will have saved many lives.

Many investors (businessmen) know what they are getting into but regardless of any advice they see the profits and decide to take the risks and the heat that comes with it.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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Miguel_Clavo says on Apr 2, 2007, 09:27:

Whats the matter? the truth hurts, G5??? Cant handle someone calling you on your BS??? I am certain you will get over it.....or if you dont, who gives a shit.....Your sense of importance to this site is overblown, and the contant BS from a gringo who claims his opinion is the only one which counts in this website is hilarious.....he is delusional, off his meds, fancies himself a legend in his own mind, AND all he does is tell stories here...anything that has ever happened that is posted on this website HAS HAPPENED TO HIM PERSONALLY OR SOMEONE VERY CLOSE TO HIM RELATIVELY RECENTLY!! you ever notice that?...he must be the most unlucky person in the world to have ALL those things happend to him or someone he knows..ORRRR, the more likely event, HE LIKES TO TELL STORIES!!!!!!!!!!!! Both of you bash and trashtalk Colombia to no end...and to do it so arrogantly shows you both have no respect for Colombia nor its people....from who? a 5 year vistitor to Colombia and a socalled Colombian living in the US who visits there every now or then? Yep, real sources of information....no more valuable than a 5 year immigrant living in the US who is an expert on all-things-American or a German-American who lives in the US and only knows Germany by visiting there every now and then.....People, consider the sources when you attach credibility to opinions voiced here!

besos from the lowest of the low....i kind of like that....as opposed to pretending what i am not, like DG/G5..WAH!WAH!WAH!

"Do i have Proof""

"No I do not and tneither do you. But as a f&cking human being I beleive you have a basic duty to assume the best in people who are dead. Not for them but for their families. Until it is proven that he deserved it I think it a very low class thing to assume about the deceased." DG

Thank you for admitting which orifice your opinion originated from. My point exactly.....You have no idea what happened nor does anyone here, but yet you say that it was failure to pay his extortion money, and to believe otherwise is irrational and delusional in your distorted opinion. Noooooo, it could not possibly be something that HE was involved in,.....no, that would mean that it was not Colombia and the Colombian people who were responsible! and that would throw your Colombia Bashing for a loop, wouldn't it? You have a hidden agenda in your constant barrage on Colombia, despite the fact that you are hiding there.....it will just take a little work to uncover it...=)...Or, you are one paranoid person....have your doctor change your dosage, its obviously overkill.....Congratulations for your assumptions, but your statements are inconsistent....on the one hand your you say he didn't pay his extortion money, thereby participating in the SPECUALTION of the why of the event, and the other hand you say one should assume the best and that he is a victim...BS, that is just stupid. What sense of reality do you live in? or are you delusional? And if he had listened to the Great StoryTeller of Bogota he would NEVER HAVE STEPPED FOOT IN COLOMBIA!!!!! and to be so arrogant to think that your distorted view of Colombia would have saved his life! i would venture to say that HE and HIS WIFE knew Colombia so much better than you...and you have the nerve to say that!!!! Sorry, no credit there!........Ashamed??? Oh, contrare.......

Dearly Departed?? thank you, Reverend DG! what a hypocrite, taking to your high moral ground~~~ you speak so highly of the dead, yet puke out so much trash about the living, Colombia and Colombian people......so when i see you or anyone else espouse your/their bullshit, i will call you on it......consider it an educational process....and its free!

and Rubito, i took lessons in internet etiquite from your school...jajajaja...

Just my opinion...and brought to you by a one of the PBH Lowlifes.......hahaha


Miguel_Clavo =).....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Miguel_Clavo says on Apr 2, 2007, 10:00:

Another Explanation..... Maybe you are the typical American......displaying typical American attributes. The typical American constantly whines, bitches, moans, and complains about EVERYTHING! It is what the typical American is so GOOD AT!..so, when you move to Colombia, you continue in the fine American tradition of whining....maybe it is not your fault in bashing and whining about the evils of Colombia....maybe it is just your American attributes at work..........

and to the mods, my apologies in advance, but this Colombian negativity propaganda by two self-proclaimed Colombia experts should not go unchallenged......

well, enough for now...i have to attend to my 2 Colombian businesses, and oh, yeah, my extortion monies are due today....thank God I can pay those Colombian extortionists online! Then, i need to pay my US extortion money....to the IRS by April 15!

Just my opinion...and brought to you by a lower than low

Miguel_Clavo =).....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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aztec says on Apr 2, 2007, 10:56:

Miguel_Clavo, There is nothing for the mod's to challenge "and to the mods, my apologies in advance, but this Colombian negativity propaganda by two self-proclaimed Colombia experts should not go unchallenged......"

It is for you and me to offer cogent arguments for or against an idea.

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Apr 2, 2007, 11:32:

This is the first time in my life I heard of a gringo being killed by sicarios,I have heard of gringos who has been kidnapped and robbed but kill like this one... never. something must happened that the other person wanted to take revenge on him.

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morphus says on Apr 2, 2007, 13:10:

I heard that there was some kind of love triangle.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Apr 2, 2007, 13:11:

Aztec...the mods should not be doing the challenging...its for the PBH posters and readers to do that....this site drives alot of people away not because of the postive things posted here, it is all the negative bullshit the likes of DG and G5 (must be a "G" thing???) promulgate and spew forth their personal agendas on a public forum...Everyone knows that in Colombia, as in ALL other countries including the US, there is an element of danger and risk. One would have to be stupid or something NOT to realize that. But, and this is where i taked exception to some posters here, when some people go above and beyond, almost to the extreme, of trying to portray a visit to Colombia as an automatic death sentence, i say BULLSHIT. Their postings are simply for the benefit of their own EGO and a need for attention. For Someone here to claim to be the Great Defender of Colombia, which is a real joke, when in all reality, this is causing more damage to the reputaion of a great people and country. Hypocritical in my book. "Imagine, a new reader of PoorButHappy, a name friendly enough, learns through posts by some individuals, that every square inch of Colombia is a danger zone, and to visit it one would need a new wardrobe, entirely made of Kevlar." Believe it or not, everytime one steps outside of ones home, there is a chance that you will not be returning! Utopia doesnt exist other than in Texas!Why should overreaction or paranoia on one or two peoples part, be a cause for people NOT to enjoy what Colombia and its people have to offer the world? Until people experience Colombia and its people, the outdated reputation of Colombia wont be readjusted.

Just my opinion...and brought to you by a lower than low

Miguel_Clavo =).....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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southern151 says on Apr 2, 2007, 13:25:

MC... I have to agree with you to some extent. I am not going to get involved with the debate as a whole as to who is wrong and who is right but, if, when I joined, this type of conversation would have been rolling off everyone's keyboards, I would have really had to stop and consider my venture to Colombian grounds.

Just my two cents.

BTW, I am VERY glad that I made the trip and eagerly await my next trip! Also, thanks to everyone here that offered sound advice as to where to go and what to look for. You guys were a great help!

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manINred says on Apr 2, 2007, 13:37:

Violent crime against completely innocent people is not as rare as we think. I was a victim of it, to the point where I'm lucky to be alive, and I'm not involved in any sketchy shit, just the victim of a few fucking piece-of-shit lowlifes who had nothing better to do. My best friend's friend (an acquaintance of mine) was shot dead in Montreal. He's just a normal bloke, but talked to the wrong girl at the bar. Did he have it coming? Absolutely not. The people I'm closest too all have sad stories of people dying for no reason, it has been a reality of Colombia, especially Medellin, for awhile, but it is getting better now.

I absolutely agree that more often than not people who are killed or die because of a violent act have it coming to them by being involved in the world of crime, or there's at least minimal reason for their death (to the extent of which fucking another dude's wife can be considered reason enough for someone to take it upon themselves to take another human life...). Though I have seen and heard of too many senseless acts against completely innocent people to be convinced that it is so rare.

That being said, I don't know why this debate is so raging. I have seen no evidence to suggest he was a baddie. Perhaps he was, perhaps he wasn't.

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Gomezman5 says on Apr 2, 2007, 15:24:

Clavo...... Your language is so foul. You make yourself look like an utter fool. I have no interest in responding to any of your posts that are directed to me. Quite honestly, you're a poor excuse for a human being.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Apr 2, 2007, 15:31:

Coming from you i will take that as a compliment, but really, who gives a shit what you think. Remember, we are all amoebas in a sea of shit, so to speak....You like to dish it out, but, like a G5, you cant take it.....and it leaves you speechless to get bslapped, like when strobers had his way with you....One question though, does this mean i wont be getting a Xmas card from you this year??

Utter fool....ya, you would know about that, cierto?


how do you like my new revised expression?

Just my opinion...and brought to you by the lowest of the low

Miguel_Clavo =).....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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goin_south says on Apr 2, 2007, 18:14:

mecca: (We gotta talk before you go south..) Hey, mecca; you're not a gringo-sicario are ya?

Ciao! Gustav.

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Atrevido says on Apr 2, 2007, 19:04:

This being Colombia the most likely scenerio is that he owed somebody (big) money and didn´t pay. I think I read somewhere that his casino on sexta closed after going bankrupt.

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morphus says on Apr 2, 2007, 19:25:

I don't listen to Gomezman5. He only hangs out in plush hotels when he goes to Colombia.

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utopiacowboy says on Apr 2, 2007, 20:13:

Oh yeah, well you're another one and so's your old man (to no one in particular but getting into the spirit of the thread).

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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robi666 says on Apr 2, 2007, 20:45:

Morphus, funny the idea of putting together G5 and Walter Sobchak... I did exactly the same in another thread some months ago!
what we do in life... echoes in eternity.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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Mr. Hollywood says on Apr 2, 2007, 20:49:

Blah blah blah I'm going to stay clear of the dick swinging match but I do feel like piping in with a comment that I think anyone who assumes you have to "do something" to end up getting violently killed in Colombia doesn't know what he's talking about.

Believe me, I saw all this guy's different businesses and angles and thought, "Holy shit, he sure had a lot of exposure" but you know what, NOTHING he did deserved a death sentence. Being imprudent is not a capital crime. And I think that's what GIB, sorry, DG, is trying to say to you. We've all done things that put us at risk. In fact, by the criteria of most of our friends and family at home, just going to Colombia is a stupid risk. Would you really want THEM second guessing you if tragedy befalls you?

And I can tell you first hand that bad, terrible, awful gruesome shit happens to people in Colombia EVERY DAY that did nothing to deserve it. Kids step out of the back yard to retrieve a soccer ball and get legs blown off by landmines, people just trying to farm some land and feed a family get run off by armed goons and, yes, people get murdered by hit men over very petty, small offenses that wouldn't even earn you a fist to the nose back in NYC or London.

I say people who live in glass houses should think pretty hard before throwing stones, and most of us here are living in glass houses.

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utopiacowboy says on Apr 2, 2007, 21:06:

One of my wife's dead husband's brothers was a happy go lucky teenager when he opened the front door at the wrong moment and got blown away by a sicario. He hadn't done anything to deserve it and in fact the sicario was, as sometimes happens, hitting the wrong house.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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goin_south says on Apr 2, 2007, 21:15:

the likes of DG and G5 (must be a "G" thing???) yeah, and remember Gringodiego? (speaking of the dead)

Un moment de silencio para el, tambien por favor.

Ciao! Gustav.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Apr 2, 2007, 23:21:

a poster from murdered gringo's hometown posted a local newspaper article stating that he took the bullets when shielding his wife who was the intended target. If this is true then the motives were political, most probably and you all were wrong.

Cheers,
Desi

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe
they are free." —Johann Wolfgang van Goethe

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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Miguel_Clavo says on Apr 3, 2007, 00:08:

He probably had no clue it was coming, otherwise he would not have taken a taxi, would be a guess...and unless he saw the sicario, he would not have had time to react to protect his wife....at least, not time enough to outrun the bullets....but, only the wife and the sicario know what really happened and why.....

Just my opinion...and brought to you by a kinder and gentler

Miguel_Clavo =).....Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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bamapits3 says on Apr 3, 2007, 02:42:

Rubito It sounds like you have some sense, Are you ever in medellin, I definatley have to meet you cause 90% of the people on the PBH just talk to talk, DON is running around playing the POPE for this guy that got killed, it is a tragedey that this happened, and if you know him it is probably worse, but I am in Iraq and when all these people out here are dieing everyday or back in atlanta or boston where there has been 16 homicides this year alone, its not a big deal.....Truth or not, he probably pissed off the wrong people and had to pay for it, these countries arent to play with, in the states you have a lot more to lose then in colombia or any third world country. It was his choice to go to colombia and he had to pay the consiquences for whatever he did wrong, could those guys on the motorcycle said, lets shoot up this car, yes, but is that what happened, probably not, he was a target and they hit the bulls eye, case closed, let the police handle it and let it slip out the back door...We have this wonderful chatting board and now this is a thing of the past....

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utopiacowboy says on Apr 3, 2007, 06:01:

"But my point is shit like that is EXTREMELY rare, even in Colombia." No, it's not rare. Talk to any Colombian and they can chronicle an entire list of people close to them who were killed violently. Geez, look at my wife's list: father killed, husband killed, brother-in-law killed, neighbor killed, four other neighbors in her building kidnapped. And those are just the ones I know about - there's probably others she hasn't even mentioned. I don't know anyone in the US or Canada who was killed violently.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Lostgringo says on Apr 3, 2007, 06:14:

Desideria Too Funny I think that if it is true what you say Desideria then 99% of the posters here should feel pretty embarrassed. Of course they won't be because many people LOVE to speculate and tell about how their lives and experiences and how it relates to this man being murdered. Some say it is a terrible thing and some feel it is a good thing and of course there are those who just don't care. But almost everyone has their "own" theory about what happened! NOBODY thought or speculated that this man would lose life protecting his wife! Not many of the people here saw this man in a good light. Hell some were almost calling him evil.

Also, it is interesting that this man's home newspaper would paint him in this light. They could have went with the other negative stuff stuff that could have sold more newspapers. Also, I wonder where they got their information. Has someone got this information from his wife?

Your Home Away from Home www.welovebogota.com and www.apartmentinbogota.com "Luxury apartments and rooms Cheap" Only 2 blocks from the American Embassy! 24/7 hour security.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Apr 3, 2007, 07:29:

Desi Political motives were the very first thing I said. So we're not all wrong, I guess.

Anyway, like I said, this kind of violence and bad endings happen all the time in Colombia and the only thing that made this special or high-profile is the guy's passport. It's really sad no matter what the victim's citizenship and this kind of stuff really keeps a beautiful country down, too.

Rubito, I like you but I worry that your swagger and big mouth (if you're like that in person) is going to get you into trouble in the real world of Colombia. I hope I'm wrong about that.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Apr 3, 2007, 07:40:

I'm re-printing the artcle from the "other forum" Hamden lawyer shot dead
Pamela McLoughlin, Register Staff
04/01/2007
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A Hamden lawyer active in local politics, but whose entrepreneurial spirit led him to start a business that connected foreign men with "young, beautiful, sexy Latin women," was slain in a hail of bullets in the South American city of Cali, Colombia, Thursday night.


Robert Marshall Vignola, 50, a Hamden native, was shot by two men on a motorcycle while driving to Cali’s airport, police said.


His 33-year-old Colombian wife, Beatriz Ramos, was also hit and hospitalized with bullet wounds in the shoulder.

Sources here say Vignola was shot while shielding Ramos from an assassin’s bullet linked to her father’s political involvement in Colombia. Her father is an elected official, the source said, but his title was unavailable.

Cali’s police chief, Gen. Alberto Moore, said authorities do not yet know why Vignola was killed, but said he had a casino in Cali that went bankrupt, leaving him with considerable debts. He also had financial problems here at home, Moore said.

"So it’s said that possibly people could have been demanding money, and he didn’t pay and so they took this reprisal," he added.

Aside from his matchmaking business and law practice, Vignola had a mortgage company, American Heritage Mortgage, at 2404 Whitney Ave.

Hamden Mayor Craig Henrici said Saturday he considered Vignola a dear friend and he was saddened to learn of his death.

"He had his faults but he was a good friend of mine," Henrici said. "He was a good person with a good heart, and gentle."

Henrici said Vignola helped on his father’s Christmas tree farm each year. Henrici added Vignola was a good father.

Vignola adopted a child from Colombia with his first wife, an American, and that’s when he fell in love with the country, friends said. After getting divorced, Vignola returned there and married a Colombian woman. They moved to Hamden and had a child, then divorced. Ramos is his third wife and they have no children.

A friend in Hamden, Marina Cordeau, who is engaged to one of Vignola’s closest friends, said he always spoke of how peaceful the cities were and urged them to visit.

She said Ramos is a beautiful and nice woman.

Another longtime friend, Vincent Cimino, said Vignola was an extraordinary athlete and musician who played several instruments and once belonged to two popular area bands. Cimino said Vignola was smart, hardworking, driven and popular.

"Bobby was always trying to take another bite of the apple; he was never afraid to try anything," Cimino said. "I don’t think you could find anyone to say a bad thing about him."

Vignola graduated from Hamden High School in 1973 as Robert Marshall, his birth name. He later changed his last name to Vignola, to reflect the name of his adoptive parents who raised him from birth.

He had college degrees from Oklahoma City University School of Law and was a 1981 graduate of University of New Haven.

Sources said Vignola got into trouble with the law several years ago for misreporting income, and spent time in jail. He was disbarred but later, with the help of supporters, regained his right to practice law, sources said.

His Web site claims he is a licensed attorney in Connecticut and in U.S. Federal Court. He is also a licensed real estate broker in Connecticut and a licensed mortgage originator in Connecticut, according to his Web site.

His Web site cla