Graduate project update. Need feedback, please

T1 says on Mar 1, 2005, 23:15:

My 2¢ of input on your graduate project Why not produce the item in Colombia using a licensed foreign design? In addition to the lower labor and transportation costs, there may be potential for significant tax, govenment assistance and marketing benefits. Local assembly could be another approach.

. . . and about the product itself, why not go for super efficiency and have solar heated water with the on demand heater? Water could be heated by the sun and stored. The on demand heater could heat that water to a higher temperature if necessary or heat water if the solar heated water ran out.

I see that Colombia averages 3-5 hours of sunshine a day http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/world/country_guides/country.shtml?tt=TT001800

This page has a chart with Lagos Nigeria which at a latitude of 6N is comparable to Bogota's 4N
http://www.visionengineer.com/env/solar.php

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kernow62 says on Mar 2, 2005, 03:43:

If the product is made in China it will be of course less expensive than a comparable item from the US, even with a devalued dollar.

I too prefer the idea that manufacturing in Colombia is preferential to importing. T1's solar water heater would be simple to manufacture anywhere.

Another thing is I don't believe the US even manufactures on demand water heaters, if they do they are likely not as efficient or well designed as European ones. There is simply very little demand for them in the US (excuse the pun), a bit like electric kettles which after years of being commonplace in Europe have begun showing up in the US.
Same with gerators (if you are talking about small home models) they tend to be made overseas, even made in USA sticker is a misnomer occasionally as it simply means assembled in USA. Bicycle manufacturers are well-known for this ploy.

If you choose exporting solar panels from the US be aware that one of the largest producers of solar panels in the US is BP, not an American company, so if you need to be an Ameican company check ownership first. I think Boeing is a large manufacturer of solar panels especially for NASA so you could use their products, but as they are largely funded by the military and space industry their prices might not be competetive with other suppliers.

I can't remember but was your product required to be a US product or not? If not simply disregard my comments above.

I think a virtual PBH project could be to come up with ideas for exports from Colombia that could developed and exported. I am quite interested in bamboo flooring and bamboo fencing both of which Colombia could turn her hand to easily. Of course that huge country to the West produces bamboo too..

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latingirl says on Mar 2, 2005, 10:55:

Thanks guys I appreciate the suggestions thus far, Kernow62, I will follow up with you shortly regarding more details about this project.

Regards and thanks in advance

Mishelle

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carldecolorado says on Mar 2, 2005, 11:15:

Colombia already makes an on demand water heater. I spoke with my Colombian Architect friend the other day and he gave me this web site for the Colombian Manufacturer of the on demand water heaters. http://www.haceb.com/

I hope this helps more in your project.


Carl

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Mr. Hollywood says on Mar 2, 2005, 11:25:

H20 heater observations Tinto, I think you're onto something with the gas vs. electricity thing. Almost all residential water heaters in the USA are gas. Gas is generally cheaper than electricity in the US.

Gas in Colombia is not as common and for most people comes in tanks, not through the utility grid. So electric on-demand water heaters make more sense.

In my house in Colombia, though, I have a regular standing h20 heater that uses electricity for bath water. Our kitchen has a separate on-demand gas heater for the faucets and the laundry area. Go figure.

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Mar 2, 2005, 11:26:

I pay in Sweden something like 43 cents (US dollar) per kwh. And I have electric heating...and right now it's -24 degrees centigrades outside.
Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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ARMacleod says on Mar 2, 2005, 11:41:

-24 Good Grief! I shall never complain about the cold in England again. How do you stay warm there? Do you have a higher than average birth rate?

Being of unsound mind and dubious disposition, I cannot be held legally liable for any indiscretions."¡El diablo me hizo hacerlo!" But don't worry, be happy.

The brain is like a parachute, it only functions correctly when it is open. Pax vobiscum.

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Mar 2, 2005, 11:52:

no, not higher just about average:)
We have triple-pane windows, central heating, good isolation and right clothes for every weather.
Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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adrimm (☼Travelguide writer) says on Mar 2, 2005, 12:16:

Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Mar 2, 2005, 12:31:

daffodils? that's nice, adri:) We've got a meter of new snow and it'll be at least another month before we can see anything green sticking up from the ground...not much you can export to Colombia from here.(Except maybe tall, blond, blue-eyed, handsome Viking men who change diapers and take breakfast to bed to their girlfriends and wives...)
Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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Hunter says on Mar 2, 2005, 12:34:

JamesVH They build them a lot better in Nordic Countries than they do in the UK.

Hunter

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kernow62 says on Mar 2, 2005, 12:37:

But they use electric on demand water heat in the UK and the UK has widespead natural gas usage, so perhaps there is something else. I know some of the units in the UK have a pump to boost power.

However I think I have just hit on the perfect item to export into Colombia, again though it might not be available outside the UK. We have toilets that have a built in chopper motor that when you flush the toilet it starts up and chews all the waste and waste paper into tiny bits that can easily be accomodated in a small pipe outlet. As there always seems to be a problem tossing toilet paper down the toilet in Colombia this would be a nice solution. Who wants to put in some money to introduce this idea?

Probably already been done.

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juanalejo says on Mar 2, 2005, 13:22:

Gas Colombia has 308 municipalities that are served with the grid of natural gas, reaching 3.5 million households. Many other households rely on natural gas but out of the network which means they either have a gas tanks small for individual homes which are exchanged for a full one or large tanks which are refilled by tanks. So on demand water heaters are almost the norm especially in new buildings. The cost difference is ridiculous as I pay 50 USD in electricity a month I pay 5 USD in gas and that is assuming the stove, oven and drier are gas operated while the water comes hot from the buildings water boiler and the bill for that is included into my condominium fee. By the way I pay 236 pesos per kwh

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adrimm (☼Travelguide writer) says on Mar 2, 2005, 14:54:

YEP says on Mar 2, 2005, 15:33:

Adrimm it's more likely shipped from Hamburg Germany or Rotterdam The Netherlands ;-)

But can be there's a slim chance that there's something from Göteborg (Sweden) too ;-)


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Just another scandinavian getting ready to explore South America

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adrimm (☼Travelguide writer) says on Mar 2, 2005, 16:12:

latingirl says on Mar 2, 2005, 16:47:

Thnaks for this idea I will check into this as well

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adrimm (☼Travelguide writer) says on Mar 2, 2005, 21:17:

adrimm (☼Travelguide writer) says on Mar 2, 2005, 21:21:

Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Mar 3, 2005, 09:06:

a couple of things adri, you said that people can be both energy and resource. I've had this other idea of importing hot Colombian men to Sweden to be rented out as heating units for the apartments during the cold season. Beats an electric blanket or a hot water bottle any time as a source of radiating heat. Would probably turn out even cheaper than that 43 cents per kwh that we are paying now to heat up our houses and apartments.

Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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ARMacleod says on Mar 3, 2005, 10:40:

Hunter But of course they build the windows better, they have to because of the cold. Duhh

(The girls are nice also)

Being of unsound mind and dubious disposition, I cannot be held legally liable for any indiscretions."¡El diablo me hizo hacerlo!" But don't worry, be happy.

The brain is like a parachute, it only functions correctly when it is open. Pax vobiscum.

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adrimm (☼Travelguide writer) says on Mar 3, 2005, 12:29:

Hunter says on Mar 4, 2005, 04:54:

JamesVH They build the whole place better not just the window, the construction of most properties in in the UK is very bad.

Hunter

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YEP says on Mar 4, 2005, 07:42:

Des how much of those 43 Cents is
VAT
TAX
Enviromental TAX

??


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Just another scandinavian getting ready to explore South America

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Mar 4, 2005, 10:08:

YEP that's the basic tariff. Without any additional taxes or fees. All in all, I'm paying around 150 US dollars a month for just electricity, as a yearly average. During the cold months (Nov-March) it's almost 200 dollars a month. I can't imagine you paying much less in Denmark, since you guys have no hydroelectric plants there like we have in the rivers of Northern Sweden, plus four atomic energy plants.
Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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adrimm (☼Travelguide writer) says on Mar 4, 2005, 10:21:

Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Mar 4, 2005, 10:32:

I think it's high considering the great amount of hydroelectrical power produced in the country. The whole northern part of Sweden is full of rivers running from the mountains on the Norwegian border to the Gulf of Bothnia in the Baltic Sea. All of them are dammed with hydroelectrical power plants.

Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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YEP says on Mar 4, 2005, 11:30:

Holy shit Des .... then .SE beats Denmark on that account
And Atomic plants costs too don't be mistaken about that ;-)

But I figure it's about USD $ 100 a month for power/heating here (and like a sauna if female visitors track me down on home turf ;-) )

Ehm you know we got a "few" gas-fields in the North Sea and a few windmills ;-)

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Just another scandinavian getting ready to explore South America

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Mar 4, 2005, 11:36:

I like windmills they are so quaint! No hope for solar energy for us up here in the frozen north, yep. However, In Colombia tha could be an option for clean energy.
Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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kernow62 says on Mar 4, 2005, 12:17:

Hunter if you think construction quality is low in the UK you should compare it to the US, things are much more cheaply built, third world countries build better houses.

Of course in the UK our house was not a normal one, the walls were between 24" and 18" thick solid granite! No mortar either! Typical miner's cottage. Couldn't stand up in it though. ja ja

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YEP says on Mar 4, 2005, 12:29:

Well Des you're a little wrong on the solar energy
I'ts possible it just takes longer to break even ;-)

The panels don't need direct "sunligth" to work less will do ;-)

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Just another scandinavian getting ready to explore South America

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Mar 4, 2005, 12:52:

how could they work yep, when covered with ice all the time...ok, four months out of a year. Anyway, I'm only happy if I'm wrong about the possibility of employing solar energy in these countries.
Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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Lionheart says on Mar 4, 2005, 13:24:

the USA isn't cheaper I have been paying an average of $50 USD for electricity (a/c and kitchen/laundry are main consumers) and another $50-$70 for gas (warm water and heater) over the past years ... I just think the USA isn't used to thinking about conserving energy and saving money in this area yet. I am used to keeping an eye on energy costs from Germany, but the way housing is built here you just can't save more. I know many families paying twice as much as I do and they just moan, but don't think about how to conserve energy and save money. They are more worried about their next SUV.

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YEP says on Mar 4, 2005, 14:48:

OK ... and now back on the main track ;-)

Or did I just see a mod/OP bashing the US energy policy in here ;-)

How is the situation in Col. ??

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Lionheart says on Mar 4, 2005, 15:58:

alternative energy sources I wrote about them once before, can't find the right keywords for the search here ...

Solar panels are still too expensive to find general usage, I would love to find a way to produce cheap solar panels in Colombia and export them to Denmark and the USA. That would turn around to be able to supply them to Colombians at a resonable price as well. As long as the industrial nations don't support alternative energies forcefully, how can we expect the 3rd word to follow?

I came to the rescue of poor Europeans, YEP ... we all pay a lot for energy. I could bash various European energy policies as well. Alternative energy sources would be cheaper on both sides of the pond if the conservative energy sources wouldn't demand their cut in the price of the production of alternative energy. I wonder if the EC has looked at this in the past ten years.

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YEP says on Mar 4, 2005, 16:33:

LH ... the next big thing Will be wave-based systems ;-)

Well solar panels isn't that big in Denmark, but some have them.

But you should look into how much each country subsidice alternative sources of energy before you place your bets ;-)

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Just another scandinavian getting ready to explore South America

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