Good Stuff: Detailed Violent Crime Stats

bufalo says on Dec 4, 2007, 18:16:

I'm living in the Eje, I believe it.

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

Sr Tertius says on Dec 4, 2007, 19:14:

Great stuff! Thanks. Peter should nail this somewhere were we can use it as reference.

BTW: Putumayo has an ascending trend in murders per hundred thousand, from about 70 in 2003-2004 to about 100 in 2005-2006. It's not Baghdad yet (236 per 100K) but at that rate...

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

muchacho_escondido says on Dec 4, 2007, 22:11:

Anyway, since this kind of stats is really hard to come by, I decided to help non-Spanish speakers a bit. I looked up murder rates for the most important departamentos (meaning those that are not in complete boondocks). The rates are approximate in many cases, since some documents present data in a graphical rather than tabular fashion. I grouped the departments by region as best as I could. In parenthesis, the most important city is given:

Boyaca (Tunja) 12
Cundinamarca (exluding Bogota) 21
Santander (Bucaramanga) 32
Norte De Santander (Cucuta) 40

Tolima (Ibague) 33
Antioquia (Medellin) 40
Quindao(Armenia) 43
Caldas(Manizales) 51
Risaralda(Pereira) 75

Meta (Villavicencio) 93

Huila ( Neiva) 40
Cauca (Popayan) 41
Narino (Pasto) 46
Valle De Cauca (Cali)75

Cordoba (Monteria) 20
Bolivar (Cartagena) 23
Magdalena (Santa Marta) 28
Atlantico (Barranquilla) 30

To summarize: the least violent places in Colombia appear to be: Cundinamarca, Boyaca, Santander and the Atlantic Coast. Most everywhere else is considerably more dangerous.And Risaralda, Valle and Meta are insane, for the lack of a better word. According to my link, that is.

I also have to note that there has been an incredible improvement in pretty much every departamento. In many cases, the rates have fallen by 300-400%. In the last year, though, there hasn't been much improvement and in many departments there's been a slight increase.

Finally (and I know not everyone will like this), here's a link to US Murder stats by state (year 2006): http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_05.html

Some of the most violent states are Alabama (8.3), Louisiana (12.4), Maryland (9.7), Nevada (9.0) and South Carolina (8.3). DC has the rate of 29 but it is mostly "inner city" and should not be mixed with the other US states and Colombian departamentos that have urban, suburban and rural areas... California is 6.8, Florida is 6.2 and Illinois is 6.1.

To avoid contraversy I shall not continue with this comparison. Those daring North Americans researching Colombia as a work/study/teach/retire destination can do that themselves and draw their own conclusions. I just feel that presenting this kind of quality statistics here is a compassionate deed, since PBH is one of very few good resources on Colombian living.

Tinto (Moderator) says on Dec 4, 2007, 22:19:

"the rates have fallen by 300-400%"

----------------------

Did you mean 30% to 40%?

By the way, the place to avoid is Puerto Rico. If that FBI table is correct the homicide rate across the entire population of 4 million is 18.8 per 100,000. That's horrible and far worse than the headline grabbing stories about small (population of several hundred thousand) inner cities in the U.S. with concentrated poverty and violence.

Rail says on Dec 4, 2007, 23:25:

I live in Birmingham,Al and here is our report. Birmingham Crime Report

General Information: Violent vs. Property Crime Rate:
State: Alabama (AL) Violent Crime Property Crime
City Population: 240,176

Murder: 85
Forcible Rape: 204
Robbery: 1,352
Aggravated Assault: 1,706
Burglary: 4,831
Larceny or Theft: 11,934
Car Theft: 2,809
Arson: 175
Data Source:
2003 FBI Report of Offenses Known to Law Enforcement


Of course it is all a lot higher than that now. My fiancee warns me about Armenia but she doesnt know it's getting to be a war zone here. She freaks every time I mention going somewhere alone there. hahahahahaa

Robert Jorge says on Dec 5, 2007, 02:33:

First of all - GREAT post to the O.P. Like Sr. T said, Peter should have a link or something to that data for users to access when needed.

Well, I guess Rubito was right. Villavicencio is the most dangerous place in Colombia. Cool, I guess that means it is the least likely to have an invasion of tourists.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

Morrongo says on Dec 5, 2007, 05:05:

Interesting post sir, for some reason Buenaventura is not included on the list. Those stats would of interested me personnally.

Gator says on Dec 5, 2007, 07:31:

It's not so much the actual number but WHERE the homicides take place. Same way with Miami-Dade County Florida. The rate may appear high but a demographic breakdown show that most of these crimes take place in the poorer neighborhoods. Also, according to friends in Cali and the wife's relatives there, a majority of the most of the homicides are the result of gang activity and fights for dominance.

Miamimike, Think Liberty City and Overtown.

"Brevior Sltare Cum Deformibus Mulieribus Est Vita!" .

kalder says on Dec 5, 2007, 07:58:

Very interesting post.

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

muchacho_escondido says on Dec 5, 2007, 08:43:

Morrongo:
"Interesting post sir, for some reason Buenaventura is not included on the list. Those stats would of interested me personnally."

Buenaventura is in Valle (same as Cali). It's murder rate is well over a 100. NY Times had an article recently saying that it's the most dangerous city in Colombia.

Man Tequila says on Dec 5, 2007, 08:58:

A very interesting post, many thanks.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

Morrongo says on Dec 5, 2007, 09:12:

Thx M E i know they are departamentos de Colombia,it was just my eye sight not picking it up.....Buenaventura......a lot of good informacion to digest.
But lets be frank most of these problems are gang related or FaRc related....

muchacho_escondido says on Dec 5, 2007, 09:17:

Rail:

Bermingham certainly looks like a hot place with a murder rate of 35. However, it is the urban core that you're giving statistics for. That core contains less than a quarter of the Metropolitan area's population.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham-Hoover-Cullman_Combined_Statis...

billyb says on Dec 5, 2007, 09:38:

I'd like to see Valle's stats, ex-B'ventura.

elmodefoque says on Dec 5, 2007, 09:38:

I said it ones and I’ll say it a MILLION TIMES, Barranquilla has been and will continue to be the safest, bestesT city in Colombia, the only thing to worry about are falling coconuts!!
The few murders are attributed to PARACO just cleaning house

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one.Curramba, el mejor vividero del mundo!

billyb says on Dec 5, 2007, 09:41:

jaja, Elmo, I knew this info was going to bring you out of the woodwork.

muchacho_escondido says on Dec 5, 2007, 11:03:

Morrongo:

"But lets be frank most of these problems are gang related or FaRc related...."

Maybe, maybe not. I have a poor understanding of the situation "on the ground". I just crunched some numbers sitting in my comfortable chair. Those reports do talk about the nature and origins of violence, though.

During the few weeks I did spend in Colombia, my experiences were entirely positive. Violence was not on anyone's mind. Granted, I was only in the places outlined as calmer by the reports and I was never out after sunset.

I'd say if you really wanna know how it is in Valle for a regular Joe like you (or whoever you may be concerned about) you should have family or friends who experienced Valle first-hand and who can be objective and honest about this subject.

Regarding Buenaventura, here's an excerpt:

"Buenaventura has had a notorious history plagued by drug trafficking, violence, and the presence of guerrilla and paramilitary groups. In the last two years, the amount of reported homicides has doubled. The murder rate that is 24 times that of New York City. To counter the violence, the Colombian government has set up a marine special forces unit in the worst area of the city in order to quell the violence"

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buenaventura,_Colombia

Maybe there is a way to stay safe there. However, reports like the above suggest that one should give security a lot of thought if they have any business/connections in that city. Just my ameteur's opinion.

Morrongo says on Dec 5, 2007, 13:55:

Buenaventuras population is quite small....taking out the stats of BVT would know doubt improve Valles stats quite a bit overall.
At present there is a lull in the violence,lets hope it continues......unfortunately the odds are against it....
You can visit there, but having a business there is a different matter.

Rail says on Dec 5, 2007, 18:49:

Muchacho: That is correct. Dont go to downtown Birmingham. Southside is very bad. Everyone here is trying to move far out into the country to get away from it.

john_stark says on Dec 5, 2007, 20:56:

Birmingham's murder rate astounds me. San Antonio is more than four times the size with about the same number of murders.

Rail says on Dec 6, 2007, 02:31:

John Stark: Look at Atlanta, Georgia.

lampltr says on Dec 6, 2007, 13:50:

Great post Muchacho...one cannot forget the Mafiasos also. Is pretty sad when the local police turn a blind eye since they are often told they definately can be next. Also too, many locals are terrified and will quickly narc out info to these people just to protect their own hides. Is pretty sad when these people pay others (Believe non associated) to show up at a property to make threats then leave. Fight fire with fire, but diplomacy first I know!!!

lpdiver says on Dec 6, 2007, 15:19:

Well as Gator implied; no stated actually, you have to delve a bit further into what exactly was the root cause of these murders. The overwhelming majority of them are situations that no typical gringo tourist is ever going to find themselves in. But hey! That is fine with me.

The fewer gringos in Colombia the better as far as I am concerned.

Yeah, Colombia is deadly. Don't go there.

t

"cook some rice!"

lampltr says on Dec 6, 2007, 17:32:

Jaja, well said lp please no tourists...no guarantee of safety!!!

Rail says on Dec 6, 2007, 17:52:

How are things in Armenia? I was planning a trip after January and was wondering if it is ok there? Anyone here ever been? Thanks

lampltr says on Dec 7, 2007, 09:23:

There is no problem, if staying there hope you have made your reservations.....Many families arriving to be with relatives