Going to Colombia in June?

poco says on Feb 19, 2006, 12:58:

Elections I've been to elections, Hell,, that is the safest place around. Lots of armed police, barricaded streets, no packages allowed in the perimeter, no cars, no motorcycles just a lot of people selling popsicles, ice cream, and treats. The hot dog and food vendors will be just outside the perimeter.

Hummmmm,, are hot dog vendors are expendable? Not really expendable, more like the bus drivers get seat belts and the passengers don't. A good bus driver is hard to find.

No guerilla in the city, forget it, he's trying to make you feel better. Do you really believe the guerilla live in the mountains,, get a grip,, it is NOT safe in the mountains and I can assure you NO Colombian guy lives that far from his mother. At the very most they are there once a week and normally need armed escorts.

Getting kidnapped if you are poor? Suggest talking to everyone that will listen (or have someone do it for you). Taxi drivers are the best. Strike up a conversation, ask them where they sell cheap clothes, you can’t afford “xxxxxx� mall, ask if they know someone who will take a check because you don’t have an ATM card, the list is endless. Soon the word will get out that you are poor. This makes your value low,, but then again, there is the sex trade so your real worry might be learning a new business.

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

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Hyla says on Feb 19, 2006, 13:09:

You serious about the sex trade? :s I didn't know they used foreigners for that. I thought it was all ransom money.

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ColombiaBoard says on Feb 19, 2006, 14:42:

Mmmm.... Ok, I'm going to assume that he loves you so much that he doesn't want you to be anywhere near any perceived or real danger so that's why he seems to be so overprotective, besides he hasn't been in the country in the last three years and there have been big changes in the security situation....here are some real facts:
- The presidential elections will take place in May, not June, so by June everything election-related will be over
- From your comments I assume he's from Bogota, that is one of the safe cities in Colombia. Bombs going off in Bogota lately? sorry, not true, there have been guerrilla activity in other areas of the country with attacks, bombs, etc. but not in Bogota. The city has the usual street crime activity as any other large urban area.
- Bogota is a large urban area with all types of neighborhoods, some will make you feel at home, including the "london weather".... others are as bad as in any third world city
- You won't be the only "white gal" in Bogota, you'd be surprised at the amount of european whites you find there so you won't be attracting that much attention really.
- San Andres is nice, hot, beautiful beaches, but you can enjoy also Cartagena and it's closer.

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ColombiaBoard says on Feb 19, 2006, 14:49:

Check this New York Times article about Bogota

http://travel2.nytimes.com/2006/02/12/travel/12bogota.html?ex=1140584400&en=887233a2ea637060&ei=5070&emc=eta1

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rocinante says on Feb 19, 2006, 16:40:

Book the flight immediately I almost get the impression that he's discouraging you from going. He’s giving you conflicting sorts of info – mixed signals? He's not sure when the elections are? Maybe I mis-read between the lines. Anyway, it seems as if your mind is not yet made up as you say, "If I go we are planning to go to San Andres for a bit too ..."

How long has he been out of Colombia? His sister? Stay in the City areas, which are the safest. What I mean is stay out of the bad neighborhoods - every friggin large city on the planet has a few bad sections of town.

So, go to Bogota. You'll be there with locals on their home turf. Take general precautions and don't wear flashy clothes or jewelry. Let the locals do all the talking while you're out in public. Learn how to speak the basic hello, good bye (if not more - you got time girl!) for when you meet his family. Also remember you will have him as an interpreter when you’re with his friends and family…..

This is a golden opportunity to see Colombia the best way - with a local. Search this site - there are great little bars and places to suck in culture all over the place in Bogota.

Even if you are going to stay outside of the city, perhaps with his family, maybe in a not so great neighborhood, YOU WILL BE FINE as long as you are always with your locals.

I would not miss this chance to see Colombia the right way.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

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Hyla says on Feb 19, 2006, 16:55:

He was fine until his mother told him about the random shooting of the couple outside the shopping mall in daylight. Now he is getting the jitters and realising he is practically responsible for my safety over there :D

I really want to go, so all this is cheering me up.

Yes he lives in North Bogota and is pretty well-off. He hasn't been to his country for three years, the same with his sister, but she is panicking too.

I know some basic Spanish but when people speak it I am lost :] I will try to brush up.

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litost says on Feb 19, 2006, 17:26:

Well at least it's clear now that there aren't bombs going off in Bogota. Still, this thing about the "random" shooting seems strange... not that it couldn't have happened, just that even so I don't see why it would be a motive for not taking you or panicking. 9 out of 10 times, if this happened, it was something drug or politics related.

My guess is that they are a very well off family and maybe had some bad experiences with kidnappings or other kinds of crimes in the past, and still are very sensitive and overprotective. I've noticed this a lot, how many people who were directly or indirectly affected during the worse years of the recent violence seem to have mentally stayed in the same time, overstating current risks and living with a certain degree of paranoia.

Bogota is overall a safe city to visit, with a little extra caution specially since it'll be your first time out of Europe, but nothing to freak out about. Especially since you'll be with locals. The rewards are well worth it, it's a great city.

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poco says on Feb 19, 2006, 17:30:

Don’t worry about the sex trade thing. I don’t know what comes over me.

You may need this information to understand why some people think they way they do, what they indirectly represent and partially alleviate your fears.

The violent factions in Colombia are OK and pose little problem for the normal foreigners, you need to worry about “street crime� and you should do that anywhere.

The violent and well known factions are very well organized and managed. I’d bet their leader(s) have advanced degrees, they are no ones fool. The guerrillas and paramilitaries are politically orientated in two distinct groups. So,, find out who has kidnapped you then adopt the correct views.

Group 1
Guerrillas (FARC, ELN*) are aligned with the liberal party or leftist groups and represent the poor people. These guys started out wanting to overthrow the government by promoting communism and/or creating a socialist party. They are mainly occupied with political kidnapping, extortion, and income derived from protecting producers, processors, and traffickers of illegal drugs and “tax� levies.

* The FARC and ELN are NOT buddies. The ELN operates in the northern section and targets the oil interests.

Group 2
Paramilitaries (AUC) organizations are aligned with the conservative party or right leaning groups and the military. They protect the filthy rich people, guess what,, the drug lords got RICH, bought (or stole) land and they too became guerrilla targets and needed protection. They hunt down and kill the guerrillas and terrorize the “proletariat� who are aligned (or believed to be aligned) with the guerrillas. Their source of income is derived by selling their services and to a lesser extent, directly from drugs. They do occasionally assassinate a few "innocents" aligned with the “other guys� but what the heck, the other guys assassinate equally as well. Colombia is accustomed to violence.

This must be hard to align with the liberal/conservative views but I guess they need to accept the bad with the good and everyone does need money to operate.

Summary: Guerrillas started causing problems for the wealthy, the wealthy (eventually including the drug trade higher ups) got hired guns for protection, the top paramilitary guy was killed, his family is taking revenge on the guerrillas and the whole mess has turned to shit.

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

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Lionheart says on Feb 19, 2006, 21:10:

too much info the shooting in front of the mall was probably a personal issue ... we all know the Colombians have short fuses concerning personal issues. If it was a political issue it would have made it into the news, the various groups make sure that happens.

I know a few cases in the UK where the spouse got killed because s/he didn't deliver the Lotto ticket on time.

All make a big deal out of Sicarios ... East Europeans do the same for a few bucks in the West. $1000 for a kill, $5000 for a kill with no trace, $10,000 for absolute privacy.

The UK has their share of feuds too, you just might not see them.

Speaking to Colombians, they are over-protective ... with common sense and good behavior you are as safe as anywhere else - or you are at the same risk as anywhere else.

I had to give up my novia because she is a target, me being a gringo would have put her at more risk, including her kids. She is a defense lawyer in Cali, defending those all on PBH are declaring as public enemy and ruthless murderes. As an indigenous lady she has access to the most dangerous areas and must travel there for negotiations.

End of the story, you are as safe as in the UK, as long as you use common sense and stick to friends and family whrn you go out.

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Colombiche says on Feb 20, 2006, 06:43:

Hi Lionheart Great post!

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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tobntno says on Feb 20, 2006, 07:42:

No elections in June Hi,
as far as I know we have elections for the "Cámara" in March and then we have the senate and the presidential elections in May. So if you come here in June it'll all be done by then...

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Hyla says on Feb 20, 2006, 08:29:

But he said there will be protests from the guerilla afterwards?

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Lionheart says on Feb 20, 2006, 08:53:

remember European elections Elections in France and Spain also have brought protests and bombings in the past and they will happen again in the future.

Do you avoid going to France or Spain because of that? And what about the millions of tourists going there every year?

I can understand the fears of not going to Indonesia, because tourists are the direct target there. But in Colombia the tourists are not the target of bombings or protesters. The tourists are targets for petty crimes like pick pockets and scams, as they are anywhere else.

Just avoid standing around government buildings to avoid becoming collateral damage.

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poco says on Feb 20, 2006, 09:11:

A fact I had to give up my novia because she is a target, me being a gringo would have put her at more risk, including her kids.

Especially her job,, sorry to see you make that decision but entirely understandable.

This is a sad fact of life in Colombia and the kids make it especially true. I was there a year, maybe two and one day I joked about being kidnapped by guerillas when traveling by bus. She said, not very seriously, that she was in more danger of that happening because she was known to be living with an American.

Damn, an undeniable fact, should someone think I’d pay for her or her kids release.

There I was in Colombia thinking of my potential problems when SHE or her KIDS were a more likely target. Yep,, ignorance is bliss.

Another reason to NOT have money in Colombia and why the poor have very little problem living their daily lives.

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

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Lucia Rojas says on Feb 20, 2006, 14:38:

Come!!! You will have a ball!! all the previous advice is excellent. Dont worry and book your flight!

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