Getting cut in line, Colombian style, how do you handle it?

aztec says on Dec 15, 2009, 11:31:

Happened to us at Colombian customs. My wife (Colombian) loudly raised hell. The security people moved the intruder to the back of the line. I saw it all and was impressed. My wife has one of those typical Latin tempers that explodes if she perceives an unjust wrong directed at her expense.

She told me she had been too long in the States to put up with that behavior without an objection! Believe she is correct. Seems the perpetrators are used to people just acquiescing in order to avoid trouble.

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cage says on Dec 15, 2009, 11:41:

Yeah good for her, nice.
What inspired my post was that I was at UNI (phone'tv/internet company) the other day.
While wating to get a number 3 or 4 people just walked in front of me, OK.
I got #22.
The counter went from 21 to 23.........No 22.
I told the girl I'm #22, she said ok, sit down. and she helped 23.
15 minutes later the woman who had 24 and knew I was 22 jumped like a lizard as soon as 24 was called.
I told the girl again, hey tengo 22, no es justo. I should be next.
Ok sit down.
Half hour of my life.
So I turned to the other 20 people and said "I am #22, I am next, everybody ok with that?
Of course I was the asshole. gringo grocero.
but if i didnt do that i would have never gotten helped.
stuff like this happens to me all the time.
BTW when I was finally helped the girl wouldnt help me, busted my balls, so I had an amiga just call and take care of what I needed.

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lpdiver says on Dec 15, 2009, 11:45:

And you sat down???? WTF were you thinking? That line would have been shut down until I got serviced.

ts

Remember what the monkey says, "Fuck money it's free"

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cage says on Dec 15, 2009, 11:47:

well the line cutter was already in the service seat. what could i do pick her up by the ears and toss her on the floor?
jeje haha.
the worker should have helped me., but i guess she heard my accent and said fuck him.

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stocktrader says on Dec 15, 2009, 11:48:

aztec is right. people don't say anything and that's why line cutters get away with it. There is one exception to the line cutting brotherhood that's even stronger in the US. When traffic backs up from a highway exit and a line of car forms some people try to cut in line from the lane to the left, man that used to piss me off. So others are just idiots for waiting in line?

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lpdiver says on Dec 15, 2009, 11:48:

You could have started out POLITELY (always helps) and stated. I am very sorry but the nice lady forgot number 22. I am next.

No I wouldn't toss her on the floor.

I would simply make it impossible for her to get service prior to myself.

The good Lord helps those that help themselves.

Here is my approach...

http://poorbuthappy.com/colombia/post/whats-up-with-the-taking-cuts-in...

ts

Remember what the monkey says, "Fuck money it's free"

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pedro says on Dec 15, 2009, 11:52:

Sometimes at those service centres they have a little PIN pad type device where you can rate the service.

If you feel they're making your life difficult on purpose, it may be more effective to just wait your turn and then hit the "malo" button to rate the service received once you're done.

Colombians sometimes make incorrect assumptions about gringos. They may assume you can't speak Spanish properly and it will be like dealing with a slow learner and the whole line will go slower because you're there. In some cases this is justified, of course.

But you will meet locals who see a gringo and won't bother to listen, because they've already convinced themselves you can't speak the language.

"Pedro: Pease stop sounding like a pompous and arrogant ass." -- darloup

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miamimike says on Dec 15, 2009, 11:55:

They pull the same crap here in Miami in most barrios with Latinos. When they cut in front of me, I remind them in no uncertain terms that the line forms at the back of the last customer and finish with a remark like "Whaddaya think I'm standing here for my Health?" Don't tolerate this extremely Rude Behavior for a minute! Mostly ladies here pull this crap! And its not only Colombians, msot latinos(as) do it also, cubans are the biggest perps IMO.They have no manners whatever,,,

"You can take the Banana Out of the Republic but you Cannot take the Republic Out Of The Banana"

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whitewidow says on Dec 15, 2009, 11:56:

that ain't right, pedro.

last week i shoved an old lady into the wall and punched her husband in the face when he tried to defend her honor. they will think long and hard about cutting in front of me again.

Looking for love....

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cage says on Dec 15, 2009, 12:05:

diver i was polite, very polite, the first 2 times., actually the whole time.
no, it got me nowhere.
So I told every person waiting that I am next
Sadly, it was a little physical intimidation that got me service , service with an attitude.
Who eats first in a pack of wolves? The dominant one.
Sadly here its basically the same.
But like I said, this happens to me all the time.

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span_colombia says on Dec 15, 2009, 12:10:

lines/services here abhor a vacuum. you gotta assert yourself immediately and continue to do so. it's like classroom management techniques or public speaking when your audience is falling asleep.

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adrienne79 says on Dec 15, 2009, 12:13:

I HATE that! I know exactly what you mean....like when at a counter and you are next to be helped and someone walks up on the other side and jumps on in. Seems to happen here in Colombia ALL THE TIME.

I normally glare the person down and then I will say something like "respecta la fila por favor. Estoy esperando tambien." Normally they back up but a few times they try to argue saying their thing is really quick and then I will bark back that so is mine, and to relax...respect the line please.

I know it is culturally accepted here but I guess I will always think it is rude. I am able to change on most of my cultural beliefs but not on that one.

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miamimike says on Dec 15, 2009, 12:17:

Cage--it happens to you because you allow it! Its not a question of a pack of wolves, its about common decency and manners. If myself or my sister ever pulled this crap in front of our parents when we were young , we would have been cuffed up along the side of our heads and reminded why we don't cut in front of the line. Getting our Bell rung once was usually enough, if it even happened once. Trouble is kids see their parents doing this and they figure its OK to do the same. Until they run into someone who reminds them it is not and presses the issue. Reminds me of the extreme when this happens, In the Mid 80s while waiting in line to see the Hagler Hearns fight, one guy cut in front of another waiting in line and it came to Blows. The fight in the line was better then the Paid Fight inside. The Line Cutter got his Butt kicked. LOL

"You can take the Banana Out of the Republic but you Cannot take the Republic Out Of The Banana"

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Cheers Terry says on Dec 15, 2009, 12:26:

I agree, it's irritating as hell. Horrible manners and absolutely no excuse for it under any circumstances.

I can get pretty snarly and I'll never let any guy pull this stunt, no big deal.

It's a LOT tougher to keep the ladies under control though, but after much time in India (they're horrible line jumpers) I've developed a certain "no go zone" around me with my body placement and attitude, so it's fairly rare that one gets by. When it's a fast elderly lady though I admit I'm kind of befuddled. I can't discretely elbow her in the ribs...

Funny story... last winter a guy butted in front of my gal. She's very petite, but very strong. She slipped her hands around his waist, looked up at him with a big smile, then picked him up and carried him to the back of the line. She wagged her finger in his face and said his Mother would be ashamed that he had grown up to be such a bully.

Everyone was laughing so hard that he left. He hung around outside the bank waiting for her to come out, but when he saw me he skulked off. I still chuckle, remembering her staggering under his weight, carrying him to the back of the line...

Cheers,
Terry

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miamimike says on Dec 15, 2009, 12:48:

CT--Bet that treatment cured that Line Jumper! lol

"You can take the Banana Out of the Republic but you Cannot take the Republic Out Of The Banana"

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OcoeeG says on Dec 15, 2009, 12:54:

Excellent post, stories and advice everyone. I am moving to Medellin in July, so hearing things like this is a tiny bit disconcerting cause it pisses me off just like you guys. But I to have lived in India as well and have that no go zone Terry speaks of so that is a start. There are times where it angers me, times where I think it funny and times I see it as a challenge. All a part of the adventure I guess. I speak decent spanish but it looks like I need to practice my approach for line cutters. Thanks again everyone!

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bufalo says on Dec 15, 2009, 12:55:

That's one thing I liked better about Spain. You walk in a place ask who's last, they'd put up their hand, then you can go around shopping knowing that when their paying, you're next - and that the person who came inafter you did the same thing and won't cut.

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor Avianca sucks major.

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bravo says on Dec 15, 2009, 13:17:

I was at supermercado diez in poblado yesterday with another gringo. He's been living in latin america for 20 years and he behaves just like a latin so he promptly walked to the front of the line. Then this rather large american yelled at him like he was his step father.

Afterwards my friend was crying about americans down here try to impose their rules on other cultures, etc, etc. I didn't say anything but on the inside I was laughing my ass off.

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dwmte7 says on Dec 15, 2009, 13:42:

to make it easy for you......'welcome to colombia'.

patriarch

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spigrimace says on Dec 15, 2009, 13:45:

I was jogging along the bike path by Aeroparque on la 70 in Medellin really early this morning, like 5am. There are army or police (not really sure) barracks right past the "vaso de leche" restaurant almost where la 70 meets la 80. There were a pack of like 20 cadets jogging towards me and as the wall of men all in the same t-shirts and shorts came closer I moved all the way to the right on the concrete to the point my steps were on the white painted sideline. They wouldnt budge and so as we met, WHACK! Cadet´s shoulder into my bicep and the cadet got twirled around and his brethren kept him from going down. The pack snickered and moved on, as did I. Was I wrong for not going all the way over onto to the grass? I tried to show some courtesy to move all the way over. What would they have done if a speeding bicycle came at them?

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oneforyourmillion says on Dec 15, 2009, 13:55:

I like to wait for them to come in with an application for a job. When they are latino I put their application to the bottom of the stack....next. If they are from Medellin I cut them some slack, if they are from Bogota it goes into the trash. Payback is a bitch.

All that up in the high life you can have it. False rich, false friends and well a false life. Get down to the bear bones of it and you will find yourself, your friends and your life. Colombia can show you the way if you look...

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luck4unme says on Dec 15, 2009, 13:57:

bravo says on Dec 15, 2009, 13:17 (today): flag

I was at supermercado diez in poblado yesterday with another gringo. He's been living in latin america for 20 years and he behaves just like a latin so he promptly walked to the front of the line. Then this rather large american yelled at him like he was his step father
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I respectfully submit that I did not yell at him. I never raised the tone or volume my voice above a conversational level. And, if I was actually his step father he would have better manners!

I simply pointed out that there was a line. He tried to tell me that he didn't have to wait because he was only buying a coke. I pointed out several people only had one or two items and he should go the back of the line.

I asked where he was from and he assured me it was NOT the US. After he left, the people in line thanked me and assured me he was a foreigner and did not like his behavior one bit. They expressed great appreciation for not permitting him to take advantage of them.

Next time you see him please tell him that I have no regrets and will gladly correct him again. He is no better than anyone else and is not entitled to take advantage of his fellow citizens good nature. It's not a cultural thing. It's a simple matter of respect. Or in his case, lack thereof. MOST Latins don't behave the way he did.

I hope you will invite him to explain his reasoning by posting to this thread. I suspect he will not be able to conjur up a justifiable excuse. WHERE he has been living is not the point. HOW he has been living is!

I suspect he is the result of poor parenting and an inflated sense of self importance, coupled with a lack of respect and regard for his fellow citizens. In other words, a narcissist.

Here's my version. Posted right here on PBH earlier today.

http://poorbuthappy.com/colombia/post/whats-up-with-the-taking-cuts-in...

Did I mention that he pissed off everyone in the store. Including and especially the employees?

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Papi de Alejo says on Dec 15, 2009, 14:00:

What are the chances that the same story can be told by two idependently different persons? What are the odds?

Live simply... Love generously... Care deeply... Speak kindly...

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adrienne79 says on Dec 15, 2009, 14:01:

Oh this reminds me of another thing that constantly happens at stores here in Colombia. I'm standing in one of the aisles looking at a product (comparing prices or whatever), someone is walking towards me with a cart so I politely step back so they can pass. 99% of the time they then stop right in front of me between me and the products I am looking at while they start looking for themselves. Sometimes I feel like a ghost in Colombia. Anyone else?

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yummyj says on Dec 15, 2009, 14:08:

Jumping in line exists everywhere you go, but it is quite bad here in Colombia.

The WORST part is that the salesperson or whoever actually stops helping you to attend to the other person. This is what gets me. Why does the rude person get priority? I'll soon run out of patience for this and simply not allow it to happen to me anymore. The person might complain, but I am in the right. The can't defend rudeness.

Just because you have been to Colombia, that does NOT mean that you are anywhere near an expert on the place. Sorry. Truth hurts.

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theflatline says on Dec 15, 2009, 14:09:

I keep up an internal store of very rancid flatus that is no doubt fueled by the Colombia and North American amoebas dueling it out in my large intestine over which one is going to process my fecal matter. You couple that with mi tri-weekly intake of mondongo and morcilla and a pretty noxious gas is formed. I call it Z-14.

If someone is cutting in front of me, talking on their cell phone loudly, or just acting like a self serving jerk, then they are in for a surprise.

I quietly release several small,silent gusts around them, and then I retire to 20 feet away to watch the fun.

Legaleez for Complete Morons - A book for gringos in Colombia for who think they understand the nature of the law in a country where they cannot speak the language.

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oneforyourmillion says on Dec 15, 2009, 14:12:

You guys don't get it? They are racist and they hate gringos. Complaining about a bunch of racist is futile. Complain to your congressman that they would stop pumping money into this rat hole Colombia and the people can get what they deserve...karma is a bitch.

Of course I know your experiences are from Bogota because the people in that city are a bunch of low class pricks. No doubt about it in my mind. This does not apply to paisas however. ;)

All that up in the high life you can have it. False rich, false friends and well a false life. Get down to the bear bones of it and you will find yourself, your friends and your life. Colombia can show you the way if you look...

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barrumundi says on Dec 15, 2009, 14:32:

Papi de Alejo says on Dec 15, 2009, 14:00 (today): flag

What are the chances that the same story can be told by two idependently different persons? What are the odds?

This proves my point that there are too many gringos in Colombia!

Please do not tell anyone about Colombia. Soon we will have gringo on gringo fights in all the lines!!!

http://poorbuthappy.com/yourthing/post/uploading-photos-for-dummies/

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oneforyourmillion says on Dec 15, 2009, 14:36:

yes please you gringos are comming in hurds now. Just stay away your f&cking it up for me gringo

All that up in the high life you can have it. False rich, false friends and well a false life. Get down to the bear bones of it and you will find yourself, your friends and your life. Colombia can show you the way if you look...

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raalrock8 says on Dec 15, 2009, 14:46:

Something else that bugs me are colombians waiting for a flight. You know, when the flight attendant starts announcing the order in which passengers will board the plane... There are always 10 to 15 colombians huddled around the entrance, who needless to say are neither children nor handicapped. WTF??

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makopp5 says on Dec 15, 2009, 14:51:

I just ask, if we can finish this, before he is starting something new. And in 80% works.

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oneforyourmillion says on Dec 15, 2009, 14:53:

Damn you guys really let the little shit bother you. You just need to relax or maybe when something really major happens to you here you will forget about all this petty bullshit. That shit does not even bother me anymore. I just accept it as how it is. But people in Bogota are the worst that is without question, low class people. Cna not be compared to otehr parts of Colombia where people have a measure of respect for other people. Bogota? It is crap.

All that up in the high life you can have it. False rich, false friends and well a false life. Get down to the bear bones of it and you will find yourself, your friends and your life. Colombia can show you the way if you look...

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bravo says on Dec 15, 2009, 14:59:

Luck4unme, okay you didn't actually yell at him, but the story sounds better if I say you yelled at him. You should have punched him in the face.

Now THAT would hve been funny.

BTW, he is from Slovenia not germany, and NO that is not normal behaviour in Europe.

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luck4unme says on Dec 15, 2009, 15:31:

bravo says on Dec 15, 2009, 14:59 (today): flag

Luck4unme, okay you didn't actually yell at him, but the story sounds better if I say you yelled at him.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Agreed Bravo. It sounded better when you reported I yelled at him. Now I wish I had!

Any chance he'll go back to Slovenia? :) :) :) Wish I had known his nation of origin so I could have reported that they guy was a "Slovenly Solvenian." :) :) :)

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nevertrustapaisa says on Dec 15, 2009, 15:31:

adrienne79 says on Dec 15, 2009, 14:01 (today):

"Oh this reminds me of another thing that constantly happens at stores here in Colombia. I'm standing in one of the aisles looking at a product (comparing prices or whatever), someone is walking towards me with a cart so I politely step back so they can pass. 99% of the time they then stop right in front of me between me and the products I am looking at while they start looking for themselves. Sometimes I feel like a ghost in Colombia. Anyone else?"


The exact same thing happens to me all the time in the big supermarkets. Next time say to them, "tranquila, yo espero que TU termines!" in a very sarcastic manner. But, seriously, it happens because they are completely oblivious to anything anyone else is doing. It does not even register to them you were looking at something and moved just for them. For them, you were just a momentary obstacle that miraculously moved itself. I have to get out of the habit of being courteous in Colombia. It is not appreciated.

Although, sometimes I go against the grain and stop traffic behind my car to let people cross the street. The people crossing look very surprised and a bit appreciative.

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misterfinger says on Dec 15, 2009, 16:15:

YEH I Noticed this happens a lot in Colombia I guess the worst is with Call Numbers..I mean the minuter they sell sometimes you get arrogant Colombians just smack cut in front of you and yell tigo o fijo or something,,Hope they never do it to me when Im hungover Or I will smack them one of these days,,Yeh I hate people that cut in front of you,,Thats Bad news,, Those people were brought up without manners...

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SiV says on Dec 15, 2009, 16:21:

Que'ubo, pues! Soy invisible, o que? Hagame el favor . . .

Stultórum númere infinitum est.

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nevertrustapaisa says on Dec 15, 2009, 16:26:

SiV, thats a great, somewhat light-hearted way to make your point.

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misterfinger says on Dec 15, 2009, 16:31:

YEH MAN Maybe these ignoramos need to look at this thread,,Cant stand people like that,,Theres not much you can do on them..Dont know what to say just ignorant people are like this..

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cage says on Dec 15, 2009, 18:59:

yummyj says on Dec 15, 2009, 14:08 (today): flag

Jumping in line exists everywhere you go, but it is quite bad here in Colombia.

The WORST part is that the salesperson or whoever actually stops helping you to attend to the other person. This is what gets me. Why does the rude person get priority? I'll soon run out of patience for this and simply not allow it to happen to me anymore. The person might complain, but I am in the right. The can't defend rudeness.

That part is what actually pisses me off, Ok the cutting I can usually let go or stop, but its when the worker now helps them that makes me speak up.
And if you say something 90% of the time you are considered the asshole in the situation.

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adventuro03 says on Dec 15, 2009, 19:00:

i learned several years ago from my novia to always stand in front of your cart to protect your spot she is only about 42 kilos but protects her space like a lineman takes no shit of course always with a smile it works great just turn the cart sideways into anybody that tries to get in front!!! dont even need to appear to be looking at the person act Colombian and just act like they dont exist!!! some almost fall on their butt they are caught so unaware I sometimes take a cart even if I have only have one item just tobe prepared to do this

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adrienne79 says on Dec 15, 2009, 19:07:

Glad I am not the only one that notices that nevertrustpaisa. I am so going to say that next time it happens! Thanks for the laugh. I can only imagine the reaction you are getting from people crossing the street. I was in Quito this past summer, used to live there for a year over 10 years ago. The cars were constantly stopping for me to cross on this past visit. I was shocked and thought wow these people are so much nicer than I remember. Turns out they had just started enforcing a law that allows pedestrians the right away.

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nevertrustapaisa says on Dec 15, 2009, 20:13:

Adrienne, yeh it helps when police are doing their job to enforce civility. It will take a while before the police here get enough civility training to erase the bad habits they too learned before ever taking the job. For example, it is not likely a cop is going to ticket the motorbikes for crossing in a red light, when they often do it themselves. Though, overall, the police are definitely more client-oriented now.

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yummyj says on Dec 15, 2009, 20:47:

oneforyourmillion, you should post your photo here so when alll the gringos see you standing in line, they can cut in front of you. It doesn't bother you, so no problem.

(And in your next breath, you complained about it in Bogota. You should not criticize and then agree. Choose a side and stick to it.)

Just because you have been to Colombia, that does NOT mean that you are anywhere near an expert on the place. Sorry. Truth hurts.

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misterfinger says on Dec 15, 2009, 20:56:

AGAIN These people need Education...

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antiguru says on Dec 15, 2009, 23:16:

back to the OP, i handle line cutters on a case by case basis. society and norms here are less rigid than in the US. colombian culture is more fluid. so clerks here sometimes let people cut in line. at least they almost always listen to what the interruptor has to say, and then they seem to rank the importance and expected time to serve each client/customer. if the original customer seems to have a lengthy task, the clerk might let a couple of customers with quick transactions slide in. if the clerk judges the line cutter will demand more than 15 secs or so, they'll usually be told to wait and the clerk goes back to the original customer. also the urgency expressed by each customer is factored into the equation, which means the assertiveness of each person has an impact. so how do i handle cutters? if it seems they'll be quick, i try to accept the fluidity/flexibility of Colombian culture and i don't say anything. but if it looks like they won't be quick, i'll politely say, Que pena con usted. Estuve primero. and then they always apologize and make way for me.

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Platinum_space says on Dec 16, 2009, 00:01:

Sounds like Cubans in Miami

I roll solo, other countries crimes do not intimidate me.

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miamimike says on Dec 16, 2009, 00:05:

Platinum_space says on Dec 16, 2009, 00:01 (today): flag

Sounds like Cubans in Miami

I roll solo, other countries crimes do not intimidate me.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

PS--Very astute post, you must have spent time here in the magic city.

"You can take the Banana Out of the Republic but you Cannot take the Republic Out Of The Banana"

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Brian858 says on Dec 16, 2009, 04:28:

You need to learn the rules of the coast:

BE PRO-ACTIVE: Nothing will happen here is you sit around waiting for it. It applies for everything but much more here.
PACIENCE: If you have little (like me) then you need to develop some, QUICKLY. Otherwise your stay here won’t be long. Things here happen but only when someone else decides to do them. Infuriating yes, but you have to go with the flow.
SPANISH: If you know some, great! If you don’t then try and make the effort to learn. The more you learn, the more fulfilling and rewarding your experience will be.
DON´T “DAR PAPAYA”. A common expression in Colombia which literally means to “give Papaya”. This is something that still amazes me. The concept is this: If you give someone the opportunity or means to take advantage of you, then they will. People here are suspicious of others exactly for this reason.

An example: Don’t walk down the street with a big flashy watch and a bulging wallet visible in your pocket. You are giving Papaya.

http://www.youtube.com/harringtonb

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whitewidow says on Dec 16, 2009, 04:59:

Can anybody tell me why my friends are telling me to stop giving away papaya? I do not even like papaya. Watermelon is definitely much better imho.

Looking for love....

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gamm2 says on Dec 16, 2009, 05:36:

A ton of things just happened right in the airport:

First I was wating "in line" to order something to go at crepes and waffles. Two times people come in from the sides and order something or pay the bill. Didn't say anything....

Then getting off the airplane - my bag was put farther behind my seat, so I got it out first or I never would have left. Of course the guy thats sistting in my row moves out into the aisle and so does everyone else so Im stuck. So this guy is pushing his way to go but my suitcase is right there in front of him. I told him Senor, mi maleta esta aqui necesito ir primero.... didn[t really respond

Then we get into a HORRIBLE immigration line and these two girls start telling everyone they have a connection and to please let them through. Some people did some people didn't. Then this Colombian kid (basically everyone is Colombian in the line). starts yelling, we have to organize and let the people with the connections through. I was kind of confused because my connection was only 10 minutes later then those girls, but I didn't want to go through the whole immigration making people uncomfortable. I mean everybody has tight connections. So i tell this to the kid... Hahha Anyway a few minutes later, they call out for US citizens so I had to walk through everybody looking at me... anyway

Finally the immigration person brought people with close connections to the US citizen line in a nice orderyl fashion. getting into a fight with some Colombian girl who did not wait her turn to get called. I think it really shows the deep differences in feeling when thinking about a line...

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pavo says on Dec 16, 2009, 05:52:

Lines in Colombia are wide, not long. I deal with it by sending someone else to do my dirt work. If I have to stand in line, I practice patience and live and let live.

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oneforyourmillion says on Dec 16, 2009, 05:56:

yummy I did not say it did not bother me I don't think at least if I did what I meant to say is that I don't let it bother me. I have found that if you just let it go it soon leaves your mind, if you react in some way it stays with you longer. I am not perfect for sure and it used to be that I would not allow it to happen. It is acting out of the social norm and the feeling that comes from doing that is not a pleasant one and so you have to weigh if it is worth it or not?

Really the only thing you have accomplished by making note of it is made the person you yelled at hate gringos. In his mind it is acceptable and here you are in HIS country telling him it is not, while all the other Colombians in there country in line are staying quite.

Try to see it from another perspective.

All that up in the high life you can have it. False rich, false friends and well a false life. Get down to the bear bones of it and you will find yourself, your friends and your life. Colombia can show you the way if you look...

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nevertrustapaisa says on Dec 16, 2009, 06:00:

gamm2, I don't think it has so much to do with lines. The lines are just a public location where people allow their lack of consciousness of others to be seen. It may even be an unintentional selfishness in some cases. Where, for years, they were simply taught by example to grab what they can when they can. Survival of the fittest in what still functions as a jungle in many aspects. Look at how people drive here. They are always looking for ways to cut in front, create lanes that do not exist, honk the millisecond the light turns green. Patience is not a virtue in this culture.

I think what is most frustrating is that even when pointed out, they fail to see the problem. So many years of acting one way, it does not seem to register when someone asks them to be considerate.

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miamimike says on Dec 16, 2009, 06:06:

nevertrustapaisa says on Dec 16, 2009, 06:00 (today): flag

gamm2, I don't think it has so much to do with lines. The lines are just a public location where people allow their lack of consciousness of others to be seen. It may even be an unintentional selfishness in some cases. Where, for years, they were simply taught by example to grab what they can when they can. Survival of the fittest in what still functions as a jungle in many aspects. Look at how people drive here. They are always looking for ways to cut in front, create lanes that do not exist, honk the millisecond the light turns green. Patience is not a virtue in this culture.

I think what is most frustrating is that even when pointed out, they fail to see the problem. So many years of acting one way, it does not seem to register when someone asks them to be considerate.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Interesting post! IMO, you nailed it !

"You can take the Banana Out of the Republic but you Cannot take the Republic Out Of The Banana"

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tom73b says on Dec 16, 2009, 06:11:

trip the SOB and hallor Buyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

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Brian858 says on Dec 16, 2009, 06:13:

Next time they cut in front of you just get real close to them and start hanging all over them like you are drunk.

http://www.youtube.com/harringtonb

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oneforyourmillion says on Dec 16, 2009, 07:09:

of course they do not realize it. It is acceptable in their culture so it is only strange to you as a forigner therefor you feel you must make a reaction a protest. I am trying ot tell you to not do this, resist the erge..

Leaning onthemlike your drunk? jaja That is a good idea!

All that up in the high life you can have it. False rich, false friends and well a false life. Get down to the bear bones of it and you will find yourself, your friends and your life. Colombia can show you the way if you look...

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nevertrustapaisa says on Dec 16, 2009, 07:46:

I disagree OFYM.

Everyone handles it in their own way, according to personality and background. Looks like we have both survived here for quite a while with different approaches.

People have given examples here where Colombians have shown they do not find it acceptable behavior, when they feel comfortable expressing their feelings. Such as the case in the store where the folks in line behind thanked the guy for speaking up (after the perp had left). It does not occur because everyone finds it acceptable. It occurs because people are not accustomed to speaking up about perceived injustices yet.

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Philly says on Dec 16, 2009, 08:45:

Everyone cuts lines because the service here is sooooooooooooo`poor. Two hour wait in a bank, give me a break.

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lpdiver says on Dec 16, 2009, 09:11:

My stay for the month of November I went into the bank on four occaisions to withdraw 3 million pesos from my account. I was in and out in less than 15 minutes in all cases. That included waiting in two lines on all occaisions.

ts

Remember what the monkey says, "Fuck money it's free"

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nevertrustapaisa says on Dec 16, 2009, 09:15:

lp, it really depends on the hour you go in the bank and what location. I know a couple locations that are often empty if I happen to be near them. But there are som locations in congested areas where you can definitely lose a couple hours waiting. Such as downtown Medellin.

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lpdiver says on Dec 16, 2009, 09:27:

I will make note of the ones I went to then. Time was always about ten. Beginners luck I suppose!


ts

Remember what the monkey says, "Fuck money it's free"

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Brian858 says on Dec 16, 2009, 10:39:

"Everyone handles it in their own way, according to personality and background. Looks like we have both survived here for quite a while with different approaches.

People have given examples here where Colombians have shown they do not find it acceptable behavior, when they feel comfortable expressing their feelings. Such as the case in the store where the folks in line behind thanked the guy for speaking up (after the perp had left). It does not occur because everyone finds it acceptable. It occurs because people are not accustomed to speaking up about perceived injustices yet."

Spot on.....Well said!!!

http://www.youtube.com/harringtonb

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lpdiver says on Dec 16, 2009, 10:53:

There are some limited circumstances when "line cutting" is encouraged. It is not actually line cutting as there is a special line. When entering Colombia in Bogota there is a special line for people travelling with children under ten. Not really line cutting I suppose.

Upon leaving we were in a long line for DAS and the couple in front of us were compaining there were only two agents and said that people with children weren't supposed to have to wait in the regular line. We arrived three hours early for our flight and had not cleared DAS with twenty minutes till departure time.

Finally the couple in front went to the head of the line to inquire about the children rule and never returned. My wife did not ask but rather informed me that we were going as well. I went with her and noone said a word. I still felt two inches tall. I had tried to explain to her that the plane wasn't leaving with all those people in line.

We got to the gate and sure enough overheard the boarding attendants commenting that there were forty people held up with emmigrations. They waited. All boarded and the pilot had to punch the after burners and waste some fuel but we arrived in Houston right on time.

Also there is a GREAT deal of respect for elders, so if you have grey hair you will often be offered the front of the line or seat on the metro or the first cab. My pride doesn't let me take those offers...yet.

ts

Remember what the monkey says, "Fuck money it's free"

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dwmte7 says on Dec 16, 2009, 12:00:

anti guru made a good observation and point. when confronting the jumpers. most if not all will back off readily some with a frown and reluctantly and others apologetically. i've never encountered any of them becoming confrontational...only presumptious and rude in their actions.

patriarch

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theflatline says on Dec 16, 2009, 12:55:

Never go to the bank on payday.

Years ago you had to pay all your utulities at the bank and everyone waited till the last minute to pay them, so you would have lines two blocks long.

Going to the bank early in the middle of the week is always a good bet.

Legaleez for Complete Morons - A book for gringos in Colombia for who think they understand the nature of the law in a country where they cannot speak the language.

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oneforyourmillion says on Dec 16, 2009, 15:15:

handle it how you want but I have been here long enough to know how it is enterpreted. The guy who jumped in line and who you scolded will run off with his tail between his leg and then proceed to gossip about you to everyone he knows. The story will go something like this. "I was getting in line at the store and this gringo got all pissed off and was cursing me, shoved me to the floor and pistol whipped me." The listener will say; "Really? those damned gringos. Was it the one from the barrio?" He will respond; "Yea the same one, that big one." JAJA I shit you not.

Maybe you can do it if you are 5'9" or whatever but if you are 6'4" the chisma and the lies about what actually happened will be spread until Next Christmas. But do whatever you want but just think about what it is I am saying. It comes from a lot of experience handling this every which way. The best way is to just let it go. Like a lot of things here.

you might say who cares about the chisma gossip. It can effect your life if you live here, people beleive the worst about other people or tend to and forget the best.

All that up in the high life you can have it. False rich, false friends and well a false life. Get down to the bear bones of it and you will find yourself, your friends and your life. Colombia can show you the way if you look...

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SiV says on Dec 16, 2009, 16:54:

Nah, man, just make a joke out of it. Poke a bit of fun at the pusher, get the others in the queue laughing with you and at him. Make 'em feel sheepish.

Stultórum númere infinitum est.

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nevertrustapaisa says on Dec 16, 2009, 17:15:

oneforyourmillion says on Dec 16, 2009, 15:15 (today):

"you might say who cares about the chisma gossip. It can effect your life if you live here, people beleive the worst about other people or tend to and forget the best."

I have a lot of experience handling it also. I don't shop where I live. But I think what you are talking about sounds more like the smaller, lower strata barrios. Some people will see it your way and some will misunderstand. Not going to live in fear of speaking up. Might be different if I were dining along side the narcos at the restaurants on Ave La Palma. They might not take well to a Gringo speaking up. They do let their arms speak for them.

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nevertrustapaisa says on Dec 16, 2009, 17:22:

I was thinking about this subject today as I was out and about. I stopped in a small cafe to grab something. After I had ordered and was waiting, I sat and watched people run into the place and literally shout out what they wanted as they were still approaching the waitress. The waitress went straight to get what the guy asked for and took care of him.

It got me to thinking that the people who work in the stores don't know any better either. They also grew up watching everyone act this way. They think nothing of it. At most they see the people as slightly more assertive about what they need. To them, it is a matter of style or personality, not education. Think about it; day in and day out waiting on assertive people. You quickly see it as the norm.

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Juepaje says on Dec 16, 2009, 17:41:

I don’t. I do not stand in line. I call Olympica and they deliver my groceries. I have a friendly drug addict that lives on the street below my building. He stands in line at the bank for me in the Potafolio line and after a few minutes, he is always at the front and I give him mil pesos for his time and take his place. He bathes a few times a year and people tend to let him pass as he pleases. I tip the guys that load my truck for my store and farm and have never once stood in a line. They come running when I give them my list. Lighten up. This is Colombia. I can’t remember the last time I stood in a line. I hate shopping and will do anything I can to avoid it. If it costs me 500 pesos or a mil, I can afford it. My time is too valuable to stand in a line. I have things to do and time is fleeting. Yes, I remember now. The traffic lights on Second Avenue are timed incorrectly and there can be lines between 4 and 5.30PM. Avoid them like VD, herpes and AIDS.

“If stupidity got us into this mess, then why can’t it get us out?”-Will Rogers

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misterfinger says on Dec 16, 2009, 19:53:

HA I saw someone said people waiting in banks two hours??? I saw these same lines in Peru and Mexico too..How do these people do it??? What if you had to take a whizz?? I thought it was bad when I had to stop in to social security office when i was taking care of my ex wife in the state of Illinois but that is nothing to what these latinos endure in long lines.. How do they do it when they wait in long 1 to 2 hour lines to pay bills these men and women bests Me,,I know I can not do it at all,,I will freak out or have to pee or crap or something,,Balls of steel these Men have too and maybe Woman,,Incredible.

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misterfinger says on Dec 16, 2009, 21:00:

AGAIN Eduaction Folks..

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whitewidow says on Dec 16, 2009, 21:26:

finger - you fit in around here perfectly.

Looking for love....

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goin_south says on Dec 16, 2009, 21:51:

do it all online.
CUT THE LINES.

(uhhh... .no dwmte7,.... not what I was referring to {cut the lines}...)

damn, I can't believe this thread is still alive.

We don't have time for LINES in eeuu.
What are they WAITING FOR,... n Colombia!

cara_de_mono says: REMEMBER THE FEEBLE FEW PWT!!!!!!!! The Feeble Few flageth, and the Moderators taketh away ... remember, cdm.

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davidslc46 says on Dec 17, 2009, 06:35:

I think the behavior is similiar to what I saw in China and I attribute it to historically limited resources and little trust that one will get what they need. I attribute the lack of confrontation to the fact that in Colombia historically confrontation may get you or your family killed. I too wait in full bancocolombia lines but have found Envigado tellers to clear the line in about 30 minutes.

Now in Barbosa at the bank there is not much of a line and people do not seem to be so disrespectfull as far as cutting in front beyond the little question someone might throw in to the worker in front of you.

But small towns without frequent gringos appear safer and more hospitable to gringos. At least I feel less apt to be stereotyped. I am just here to live with everyone else in my little piece of the best and the worst.


David

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oneforyourmillion says on Dec 17, 2009, 07:00:

nevertrustapaisa

Sorry but the chisma is everywhere in Bogota. The lower estrata it is more I guess but trust me I have mostly lived in 5 and 6, once or twice in a four. I do not see this in Medellin like in Bogota and will also say that they envy is not a problem here as much as in Bogota. Basically Bogota is jsut full of low class people and what estrata makes no difference.

All that up in the high life you can have it. False rich, false friends and well a false life. Get down to the bear bones of it and you will find yourself, your friends and your life. Colombia can show you the way if you look...

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nevertrustapaisa says on Dec 17, 2009, 07:10:

I guess I learned to ignore the folks who live by gossip. I don't live around them. But I do business around some.

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whitewidow says on Dec 17, 2009, 08:16:

we learned to wait in line as northamericans starting in kindergarten. we had it mastered by the end of elementary school.

Looking for love....

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gamm2 says on Dec 17, 2009, 08:40:

yes - we just visited my brothers school here in the US and my boyfriend could not believe the way the kids walk in line - he even took a picture of it....

Im scared to come back to teaching in the US because I don't know if I can cut it getting the kids to walk silently in line like that. Here my kids run screaming out of the classroom as soon as they finish a class. I have gotten them to walk quietly but only within my sight....

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nevertrustapaisa says on Dec 17, 2009, 08:47:

ww, that is so true. It was not in the books. It was reinforced in every daily activity in school. We would have to form single file lines. We were taught by example. But here, if a teacher does not place any value on that orderly conduct, they offer no examples other than business as usual - the free for all.

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whitewidow says on Dec 17, 2009, 09:28:

gamm/ntap - the culture excuse is the weaker explanation. learning good manners from an early age is the main difference. i would not even think about cutting in line as it is considered "cheating" to northamericans and that sort of thing is frowned upon, not accepted.

- the asian cultures have taken childhood learning and discipline techniques to the highest level. asian children are some of the most well behaved in the world.

Looking for love....

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nevertrustapaisa says on Dec 17, 2009, 09:36:

Maybe culture is a poor choice of words. Maybe we should say a poor custom.

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lpdiver says on Dec 17, 2009, 09:42:

I think culture is an excellent choice of words personally.

ts

Remember what the monkey says, "Fuck money it's free"

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davidslc46 says on Dec 17, 2009, 11:11:

Yes Americas after Thanksgiving sales behavior shows what great hippocrits so many Americans are. Why do they run the little lady over if it is not because they believe there is not enough to go around?

You have to have had close inner personal or business relationships to know where an imbalance exist within many Chinese that hinders many from doing truly great things. Primarilly it involves ones ability to trust.

But you are comparing apples to oranges if you try to line your upbringing up alongside Chinese or Colombians. They grew up under a totally different set of circumstances.

David

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bravo says on Dec 17, 2009, 12:04:

Luck4unme,

He is going back to Slovenia, but only for the holdiays :(

I always tell that I'm going to pretend that I don't know him if he gets punched in the face.

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whitewidow says on Dec 17, 2009, 12:21:

david - comparing mob behavior to line etiquette is a leap, at best.

- you thoughts are so clear and organized, i feel i need to know more.

"You have to have had close inner personal or business relationships to know where an imbalance exist within many Chinese that hinders many from doing truly great things. Primarilly it involves ones ability to trust"

- where did this come from? left field? what exactly is your point with this statement?

Looking for love....

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dwmte7 says on Dec 17, 2009, 12:32:

well compared to the agricultural backwater i grew up in, colombia and china don't sound all that bad. nice, wonderful folks, just a bit on the brutish side.

patriarch

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whitewidow says on Dec 17, 2009, 12:34:

david is the only guy talking about china.

Looking for love....

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theflatline says on Dec 17, 2009, 14:00:

It is mob rule every day in Colombia.

In the states if you do not like the mobs, do not shop on black Friday.

Legaleez for Complete Morons - A book for gringos in Colombia for who think they understand the nature of the law in a country where they cannot speak the language.

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davidslc46 says on Dec 17, 2009, 17:12:

WW

Well I wanted to clarify my asian experience as being more specifically Chinese. If that was not clear to you why the phuck would I care? Now when I want to know how to beat off an attacker with my boots I will certainly review your post again but in the meantime whether it is talking about living in Colombia or the asian culture, today it is pretty clear to me you were/are just a tourist who spends too much time talking sh*t from Texas on PBH.

That did not come out of left field and I think it was clear and organized,

David

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whitewidow says on Dec 17, 2009, 18:42:

easy funnyboy. my tentacles stretch deep and wide into medellin. care to meet for coffee sometime? i would love to hear all about your "inner personal" chinese relationships.

"it is pretty clear to me you were/are just a tourist who spends too much time talking sh*t from Texas on PBH"

- i suggest you perform more than a cursory investigation of who i am before making inaccurate statements. ask gloria who i am. did you ever wonder how she got that scar on her face?

Looking for love....

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dwmte7 says on Dec 18, 2009, 03:29:

thread bare

patriarch

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davidslc46 says on Dec 18, 2009, 06:50:

easy funnyboy. my tentacles stretch deep and wide into medellin. care to meet for coffee sometime,

ja ja,

easy white widow put down the joint

that good old usa courteous mannered upbringing of yours is showing through.

you are king and you seem to want to let everyone know what a tough guy you are, even with a woman??

Why do you not tell us all who gloria is and how gloria got that scar on her face?

Some people on here know her and like her,

I am sure we would all appreciate knowing how a big tough guy like you scared her face,

was it your boot again?

David

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whitewidow says on Dec 18, 2009, 07:13:

see ya around, dave. medellin is a small town. so is barbosa...

- by the way, i am one of gloria's original clients from back in 2005. we are friends and speak frequently regarding business dealings. i know most of the people you have mentioned in your short tenure on pbh.

- let's meet for coffee next time i am in town. you name the place. or, i can just drop by bello and we can meet someplace close to your diggs. just let me know the cross streets as i am pretty familiar with bello, east and west side. maybe we can just meet at parque bello. william is the owner of the little cerveceria that sits on the west side of the square. let's meet there and you can tell me all about slc and your transition to colombia. you can even bring your expensive dog, rasken.

it would be a pleasure to finally meet and talk about bello. we could even take a short drive up into the west side mountains of bello. i have some old friends that own a really nice finca up that way. they sponsor "navidad para ti" every year around this time. who knows, maybe you could even chat about the dog business with them as they are always looking to enhance their security features around the finca.

Looking for love....

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oneforyourmillion says on Dec 18, 2009, 07:57:

I just had a thought about this.

Could it be that 90% of the cutting in line is done because they know someone in the line, someone is saving the spot for them? this is very commonplace in Colombia. Maybe what you are actually seeing is someone saving a spot in line for someone else and walla? Be careful if you have a limited Spanish you may not catch this one and it still angers the people in the line but is way different than just butting into line.

i would say it is this probably 90% of the time I see it. Be careful about jumping to conclussions and getting offended. ;)

All that up in the high life you can have it. False rich, false friends and well a false life. Get down to the bear bones of it and you will find yourself, your friends and your life. Colombia can show you the way if you look...

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nevertrustapaisa says on Dec 18, 2009, 08:14:

Saving a place for someone is just as bad. It happened yesterday while I was in line at the bank. The guy shows up just as his friend is next in line.

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dwmte7 says on Dec 18, 2009, 09:56:

ww....don't know much about bello's west side, but i can talk at length about the hill on the east side...la cuna de los sicarios. nice place...maybe we can all meet there for pressed duck and brie...a bottle or laffite y que mas. we'll fit right in, the locals wont even notice...even with the table linens on the sidewalk table. cant wait.

patriarch

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whitewidow says on Dec 18, 2009, 10:44:

let me know, douglas. i believe i am still welcome in certain parts of that area you speak of. as a matter of fact, we can have the duck and brie inside the finca. no need to sit outside on the sidewalk.

* how do you like that upgraded security fence? you would be blown away by the pool house where the parties occur. i have some photos that could never be shared. as a matter of fact, they have been removed from my computer completely.

Looking for love....

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dwmte7 says on Dec 18, 2009, 11:13:

that fence looks like the one around pelican bay. what's inside? pelicanos?

patriarch

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davidslc46 says on Dec 19, 2009, 05:49:

WW

Because of your comments about phucking my wife in the past, you could never be my friend and I would not let you phuck my expensive dog. So save your remarks for someone who cares about you. There is a God and you are not Him and there is a right and wrong and you are not right despite all the bullsh*t about your great upbringing and ass whoppings. And Barbosa is small and I will most likely be the only white boy there and I will be there. So I sign off saying you are a guy who does not exist in my world anymore. Write what ever you want about me my dogs, my wife, gloria or the friends you think I have and it will be about as accurate as everything else you have said about my world.


David

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dwmte7 says on Dec 19, 2009, 08:51:

david............i can't express how sad it makes me to hear that you've gone through such rubbish. i'm sorry for you and yours. please enjoy your christmas,
douglas

patriarch

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whitewidow says on Dec 19, 2009, 10:11:

boo hoo. how many people have you told to phuck off on this board, david? it seems you can dish it, but you cannot take it. i think it is best that you tuck tail and continue to play the victim. smart move.....

Looking for love....

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oneforyourmillion says on Dec 21, 2009, 06:19:

Oh boy

All that up in the high life you can have it. False rich, false friends and well a false life. Get down to the bear bones of it and you will find yourself, your friends and your life. Colombia can show you the way if you look...

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kalder says on Dec 21, 2009, 07:17:

David's point about Americans acting badly at on sales day is an interesting one though. People have been stabbed and beaten to death at them in the UK. I recall one IKEA (for Christsakes!) sale where they had to call in the riot squad.

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