George Bush will visit Cartagena on Monday

DiegoDelNorte says on Nov 21, 2004, 06:00:

Hopefully... ... he won't see anything he likes and decide to invade.

Just hope they can keep him from fu..ing it up in three hours.

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Miguel says on Nov 21, 2004, 11:30:

Cartagena This Week The King of Spain, along with Gabriel Garcia Marquez, and President Uribe were all there together; the Miss Colombia competition wrapped up on Monday, and now Bush in Monday. My girlfriend was in Cartagena on business Thursday and Friday and said the security was unbelievable...quite the statement, coming from a colombiana. BTW, Bush requested a meeting with Edgar Renteria and Orlando Cabrerra while in Cartangena Las Indias. 15,000 security forces are on duty right now, including navy, army, and airforce; I read that the airport is going to be closed for five hours.

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Tinto (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Nov 21, 2004, 11:53:

submarines, planes, and 15,000 security forces...probably a waste of money, especially after the little incident in Chile. ;-)



I hope the Colombians convince him to get his picture taken in a ruana and one of those costeño sombreros, just like the Chileans did with Putin:

http://www.elpais.com

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Miguel says on Nov 21, 2004, 14:53:

Costeño Sombreros Are those called vueltias?

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ColombianoX says on Nov 21, 2004, 15:10:

They're called 'sombreros vueltiaos'.

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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Miguel says on Nov 21, 2004, 17:40:

Por lo menos I was close! Gracias X!

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ColombianoX says on Nov 21, 2004, 19:56:

Here's a good article concering all the excessive security in Cartagena for the Top Gringo's visit.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=589&ncid=703&e=3&u=/ap/20041122/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/colombia_bush_security


ColombianoX

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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brunito says on Nov 22, 2004, 08:14:

Security Yeah

I was talking in with my novia saturday night and she was telling me how such a pain it's going to be to to get trough. She works at the motomar (Esso station and private marina on San Martin between the Convention Center/tourist port and the military hospital).

She told me it was already worst then when the King and Prime Minister of Spain visited Cartagena and Uribe in February (and it was heavy security as far as I remember because I was there at the same time)

He's only in Cartagena for 4 hours!!!

Back in the 90's, did'nt Clinton have meetings with Pastrena on board an aircraft carrier to avoid problems to Cartagena???

Of course, it's Bush we're talking about...

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Miguel says on Nov 22, 2004, 09:46:

Great line in EL TIEMPO today... An organizer of an anti-Bush rally was quoted as saying, more or less..."The King (of Spain) has gone, and now the Emperor arrives".

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Dan says on Nov 22, 2004, 10:04:

News Watching CARACOL Noticias during lunch today showed some info on the Presidents visit. It also showed scenes from at least a few protests either in the area or somewhere in the Country. Showed the security around too (A LOT). Also on the news, it showed people trying to get to work and couldn't because of the visit. The police are making all the people turn around and go back. Bush is supposed to be in town for only 4 or 5 hrs and everything just STOPS.

God Bless America!

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cintiamay says on Nov 22, 2004, 12:01:

Considering his popularity He needs all the security he can get! And of course he wouldn't want to avoid the problems his visit causes a la Clinton. He'd be dead before he followed Clinton's lead. Don't worry Diego, he's got his hands full with all the other nations in the Middle East to ponder over bombing COL. They're low on the list of future targets (any country w/ oil is on the list though).
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6557428/
Of course he's ending today back in Texas for a much needed vacation for the holidays... more vacation for Emperor Gringo

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Lauthra says on Nov 22, 2004, 12:11:

RCN Saw the RCN broadcasting of the "press conference" with the two presidents, and I was well annoyed at the english speaking journalists (I dare not say american just in case) asking question that didn't serve any interests to the colombian visit. They asked about Iran and Chile... Even the woman translating President Bush answers made a comment, something like "That's a question? Oh well...". That wasn't a press conference that was a disgrace!
Nato

Nato (='.'=)

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ColombianoX says on Nov 22, 2004, 13:16:

One thing I didn't like was how President Uribe held his hand over his chest during the playing of the US national anthem. How dare he do to a foreign national anthem! What a disgrace! Bush, as I expected, put his hand down to his side once they started playing the colombian national anthem.

ColombianoX

'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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cintiamay says on Nov 22, 2004, 13:27:

Well of course ColombianoX After all, the US is God's Country. There is no other, so why show such respect to another's national anthem.

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Lauthra says on Nov 22, 2004, 16:58:

Maybe... His earpiece wasn't working and he couldn't hear the answers given to him by someone from his cabinet. I think it was so stupid when he said "To answer you question..." when he was in fact going on a tangent and not answering the questions at all. Maybe it was good he only got 2 questions, if I cringed any more I would have had a siezure...

Nato

Nato (='.'=)

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Atrevido (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 22, 2004, 17:49:

Atrevido (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 22, 2004, 17:57:

Lauthra says on Nov 22, 2004, 19:44:

The outcome If something like that would have happened we would have been invaded in a heart beat! Would that be good or bad? .....
Nato

Nato (='.'=)

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Miguel says on Nov 22, 2004, 22:31:

Thanks but no thanks We in St. Louis have had enough visits from The Emperor already this year!

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DiegoDelNorte says on Nov 23, 2004, 07:43:

Rechazalo! Colombia, tierra querida, reject the bitter breast!

The milk is sour. Its poison rots your heart and eats your soul. Look around you and see what beautiful dishes await if only you will use your teeth and stop sucking the bitter nipple.

The coffee plantations are yours... the gem mines are yours... the Pacific and Caribe are yours... the oil, the mountains, trees, flowers, birds, and yes, the coca fields are yours. You are rich beyond imagination. Why do you beg?

Hungry campesinos watch their plantains die because of Plan Gringo's glyphosphate airstrikes on their farms... your people are taken away to prisons in a country they've never seen... submission or defeat... what's the difference?

Rechaza el pezon amargado!

On the lighter side: A Spanish-language newspaper in the states (don't remember which) said that George Bush is the first US president to speak fluent Spanish! I got a good laugh from that!

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cintiamay says on Nov 23, 2004, 09:48:

At least he's fluent in 1 language and English isn't it. I wonder what language he thinks in ... oh right, he thinks whatever comes out of his earpiece.

Atrevido, bite your tongue about him being kidnapped (or worse). That would leave us with the ol' Dick C. Who'd have us invading everyone so Haliburton could get the contracts.

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elmodefoque says on Nov 23, 2004, 11:10:

There’s nobody more disappointed with Bush Jr (“W”) winning the election than me. I was so upset that I seriously thought about shooting my nuts off. I never voted before, but I voted this time. I took myself and kids to our local Harlem school district and we all voted for Kerry, of course. I might be wrong on this, but I think “W” is not such a bad guy, he a little to slow to do much damage, the one I fear is that Dick Chaney and the rest of the republicans and the Christian right. The reason I feel this way is that as a diehard fisherman like myself I know how we are and how we think. I will be the first one to admit that we’re not the brightest guys in the planet. For a guy to get up at 4 am, spent ridiculous number of hours and money to try and catch something we’re not even going to eat, is kind of absurd. We do this just for bragging right. Well, our president “W’ is and avid fisherman.
While we’re discussing politics for what is worth I’m totally against Colombians been sent to foreign jails to do time. USA has more than enough of its citizen in prisons all over the states, why give them Colombian citizens. Uribe is doing what many Colombian women do, he’s a sell out! I tend to agree with that little cachaco in most decisions but not this one.

I'll get there, when I get there!

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brunito says on Nov 23, 2004, 11:25:

Well that's it, Bush managed to get my novia half a day off The marina had to close up shop somewhere around noon and apparently it was a pain to get back to Pie de la Popa from the port area...

Of course, knowing her employer I can bet she won't get paid for the half day missed even though it was none of her fault.

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elmodefoque says on Nov 23, 2004, 12:14:

The “fair and justice for all” American system gives Colombians special treatment. Most are sentence to 20 years to life for drug offence. They will get a fair trial! jajajajaj
I know what I’m talking about, the mother of my kids did 20 under the Rockefeller law.

I'll get there, when I get there!

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ColombianoX says on Nov 23, 2004, 12:18:

I like exradition because I think the US does us a favor by taking these scumbags out of Colombia. I personally don't care if these people are taken to the US, China, or the moon, because Colombia is better off without these people! Like Tinto said, sadly the justice system in Colombia is still lacking and these people aren't getting the punishments they deserve in Colombia.

DiegoDelNorte,

Don't be an ingrate! Colombia needs all the help she can get and I'm thankful for all the help the US is giving us. Those idiots who protest Plan Colombia are really something. What do they suggest? That we turn down billions of dollars in free aid, training, and supplies?

ColombianoX

'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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elmodefoque says on Nov 23, 2004, 12:24:

most of that USA aid or plan colombia money is ending up in politicians pocket while the poor are all walking the cities begging for something to eat.

I'll get there, when I get there!

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DiegoDelNorte says on Nov 23, 2004, 12:34:

Yes, turn it down "What do they suggest? That we turn down billions of dollars in free aid, training, and supplies?"

Wow. Never thought I'd see this from 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'!

"I personally don't care if these people are taken to the US, China, or the moon, because Colombia is better off without these people!"

They are Colombians, in Colombia, violating Colombian law. Every country has its scumbags, and every country has a right to deal with its scumbags as it sees fit -- unless that country has sold its sovereignty for aid dollars.

Extradition is an insult which makes every Colombian subject to US law.

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elmodefoque says on Nov 23, 2004, 12:39:

nojodaaa Diego, asi mismo! You make me proud. This is indeed an insult to Colombian sovereignty.

now, i'm going the f--k home and let you guys fight this one with out me

I'll get there, when I get there!

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DiegoDelNorte says on Nov 23, 2004, 12:41:

Legalize & Tax Tinto says: "The extradition issue is contentious and has led to even more violence. But whaddya' gonna do?"

Legalize and tax. The US just loves to export its problems. Instead of dealing with drug abuse as the social and medical problem that it is, they declare "war" on drugs. Gringos just love a good war... war
on drugs, war on poverty, war on illiteracy, war on whatever.

Instead of working on reducing the demand in the US, they take over "supplier" nations with dollars and weapons.

To quote one of the War On Drugs most famous phrases: Just Say No.

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ColombianoX says on Nov 23, 2004, 13:26:

"Extradition is an insult which makes every Colombian subject to US law."


The only ones who are subject to this US law are those who send drugs to the US.


DiegoDelNorte,

If embarrassing incidents such as Pablo Escobar getting some posh resort as a jail and then just walking out of it didn't take place, then I'd agree with you. Just a few weeks ago, some army captain accused of murder mysteriously "disappeared" from a military prison! Unfortunately SOME people in Colombia are still bought too easily. Like it or not, extradition works! The narcotraffickers are scared shitless by it. They know they can't buy their way out of any US jail.

Listen, I understand how you feel. I wish extradition were reciprocal, that is that US drug addicts were extradited to Colombia to pay for their crime of financing so much death in Colombia, but we wouldn't have enough room in the country to hold so many people. Even former mayors and possibly US presidents would be extradited!


ColombianoX

'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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Munecabella says on Nov 23, 2004, 13:32:

BRAVO! This comment sums it up "The US just loves to export its problems. Instead of dealing with drug abuse as the social and medical problem that it is, they declare "war" on drugs. Gringos just love a good war... war
on drugs, war on poverty, war on illiteracy, war on whatever."

That sums it up! Bush needs to clean his own closet before he goes and trys to clean the closet of Colombia.

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DiegoDelNorte says on Nov 23, 2004, 14:50:

Extradition "The only ones who are subject to this US law are those who send drugs to the US."

Not really. They are subject to US law if the US government SAYS they send drugs to the US. Of course, the US government never lies.

What a convenient way to eliminate political opposition -- just denounce them as drug traffickers, and let the US lock them deep in the bowels of their system.

"Like it or not, extradition works!"

First of all, I don't agree with you that it works, at least not as a policy of preventing drugs from reaching their destinations. Cocaine is not exactly difficult to find in any major US city. So from that perspective, it fails.

Second, even if it works, for WHOM does it work? Colombians? Is it really a desirable goal for Colombia that people involved in its number two export business are all "scared shitless", and willing to resort to murder and terrorism in order to avoid extradition?

Would Escobar have run if they weren't about to transfer him out? How many Colombians have died for US drug policy?

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ColombianoX says on Nov 23, 2004, 15:15:

"Would Escobar have run if they weren't about to transfer him out? How many Colombians have died for US drug policy?"

Dieguito,

The reason they were about to transfer him was because the US found out he was living like a king! The man's prison was a country club! When he found out they were gonna take him to a real jail, he decided it was time to leave his castle. This farse only demonstrated how lax and pathetic the colombian justice system was (and probably still is).



"How many Colombians have died for US drug policy?"

Too many, but that's what they get for getting mixed up in such a dirty business! ¿Quién los manda ser tan HP's?


ColombianoX

'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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zak says on Nov 23, 2004, 15:18:

George Bush There is nothing to invade..Farc is doing that for him..The only way for him to have F'd up would be to give more financial aid to Colombia..In the past 5 years the US has given more than 3 billion in aid to Colombia and the Cocaine still keeps comming to the streets of America..

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DiegoDelNorte says on Nov 23, 2004, 17:02:

OK... ColombianoX:

"The reason they were about to transfer him was because the US found out he was living like a king! The man's prison was a country club!"

Escobar's conditions of incarceration were negotiated and agreed to by the Colombian government. In any case, it is not (or shouldn't be) the US government's business how Colombia goes about dealing with Colombian criminals in Colombia.

"Too many, but that's what they get for getting mixed up in such a dirty business!"

Oh, yeah, like Diana Turbay for just one example of who knows how many? Was she "mixed up" in the business?

Zak:

"There is nothing to invade..Farc is doing that for him."

When's the last time you were in Colombia?

"In the past 5 years the US has given more than 3 billion in aid to Colombia and the Cocaine still keeps comming to the streets of America"

Mmm... then maybe we have to consider the idea that it really isn't about stopping the flow of coke, but getting control of Colombia.

"If 80% of the world's cocaine comes from Colombia then that makes the U.S. partially culpable for ~30% of Colombia's drug problems, no?"

I don't see the export of cocaine from Colombia as a problem for Colombia. I also don't see how the current prohibition against cocaine, marijuana, and other drugs has helped the US in any way. Police agencies, big brother, and drug traffickers are the only beneficiaries of prohibition. Alcohol prohibition didn't work, and neither does drug prohibition.

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elmodefoque says on Nov 23, 2004, 17:21:

you don't sell out your fellow colombians NO MATTER WHAT. Is unpatriotic and makes you a traitor.

I'll get there, when I get there!

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zak says on Nov 24, 2004, 13:11:

Visit to Cali Colombia ColombianoX

I was in Cali in March 04..I have a Colombian wife so I am very aware of what is REALLY happening there just as you are. I have been to Colombia 5 times in the last 3 years and see The same thing each time..President Alvaro Uribe is the person asking for help.. He should take any help in the form of helping his people instead of fighting a war that clearly divides the country in half..I think the US should stay out of Colombia and offer humanitarian aid to the people..Then and only then the kidnappings and bombings might stop...I do agree with you but did not like the comment about Bush invading Colombia or F__kin up while he was there for 4 hours..The Colombian President is copying what america did in Vietnam..He is spraying chemicals from the air to kill the COCA plants but instead he is creating health problems for the Colombian people.. So it is clear that there is no right answer..Mabye some day there will be.And do you believe that America wants control of Colombia???They have enough covert troops there to see it is a country out of control in most areas..Colombia poses no threat to the US. And you are right .Colombia is only responsible for 70-80% of the coca.The rest comes as you know from Peru and Bolivia...America lost a war fighting in the jungles of Vietnam..They learned that those people were strong in spirt and would not give in..I think the American president is smart enough to not make that mistake again with Colombia..The Colombian people are also strong in spirit..Just look at FARC..This year is their 40 th. annaversary.. The only other person to have stuck it out that long is Fidel Castro..So I ask you WHAT WOULD YOU DO? if you were in a position to make changes..What do you think is the solution? Colombia is on of the most beautiful countries I have ever seen...How would you preserve that and at the same time bring unity to it??

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kernow62 says on Nov 24, 2004, 14:59:

I am not so sure that pumping humanitarian aid is going to solve the problem longterm, I would think that giving people jobs would be the only way to longterm prosperity and growth. I also feel that right now Colombia needs foreign companies to invest in Colombia to provide the needed jobs, but as long as there is the fear of kidnap, or worse then this foreign investment will remain on the outside and look to other "safer" areas. So first you need to have a safe country before the jobs will materialise, yet there will be unrest until the jobs are created. Seems almost impossible to come to a solution. I think Uribe has made much of Colombia safer, this might if we can see far enough into the future have the best chance of helping the really needy of Colombia. Short term it might not seem that way, but short term solutions are nothing but a bandaid. I do not think I have ever heard of a world leader who works as tirelessly as Uribe, even at the risk of his own health. The man works 20 hours a day sometimes.

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ColombianoX says on Nov 25, 2004, 23:09:

"I do agree with you but did not like the comment about Bush invading Colombia or F__kin up while he was there for 4 hours"


zak,

That comment was made by DiegoDelNorte, not me!

Saludes,


ColombianoX

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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DiegoDelNorte says on Nov 26, 2004, 01:51:

Yes it was me and you don't have to like it!

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