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Geneva Conventions and the Hostages

Geneva and the Hostages
Editorial of The New York Sun | August 8, 2008
http://www.nysun.com/editorials/geneva-and-the-hostages/83506/

So the International Red Cross is up in arms over the fact that the Red Cross emblem was used as part of the daring raid by which Israeli-trained Colombian commandos last month won the freedom of three American defense contractors who were being held by the terrorist group known as the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or FARC.

The Red Cross accused Colombian military intelligence of misusing the Red Cross and thereby violating the Geneva Conventions, the Associated Press reports from Geneva. "It seems to be a deliberate, improper use of the emblem," a Red Cross spokeswoman told the wire. The organization went so far as issuing a formal statement deploring the emblem's use in the rescue operation.

We can understand the argument that, as a general matter, unauthorized use of the Red Cross emblem will impede the access of Red Cross personnel in emergency situations. We're sympathetic to that argument. But this particular rescue strikes us as an operation worth celebrating rather than condemning. As we noted in an April 28, 2008, editorial, "Hostages of FARC," the three hostages — Marc Gonsalves, Keith Stansell, and Thomas Howes — were identified by the American military as contractors working for California Microwave Systems, a unit of Northrop Grumman Corp., on assignment for the Defense Department.

On February 13, 2003, they were flying a plane over Southern Colombia on a mission to survey the crops of coca, the plant that ends up as cocaine on the streets of New York. The plane crashed, and the pilot, Thomas Janis, an American citizen, and a Colombian army sergeant, Luis Alcides Cruz, were killed by the FARC terrorists, according to the American government. The others on the plane included Mr. Gonsalves, a Florida native who had served in the Air Force and has a wife and three children. Mr. Stansell, a former Marine, is a father of two. Mr. Howes has a wife and two sons.

Would it have been a better outcome had the Colombian military failed to mislead FARC, and failed to free the hostages? In that case, the Red Cross emblem would have maintained its precious sanctity, and the Geneva Conventions would have been untrammeled, but Messrs. Stansell, Gonsalves, and Howes would have been stuck in the clutches of terrorists who themselves didn't have much respect for the Geneva Conventions. The hostages would still be separated from their wives and children. And it wasn't only the three Americans who were freed but 12 other captives, including Colombian politician Ingrid Betancourt.

Whatever efforts the Red Cross undertook during the five years the three hostages were being held by FARC to obtain their release were unsuccessful. The Colombian military rescue operation was successful. A brigadier general of the Israel Defense Force, Israel Ziv, who helped plan and advise the rescue, told Haaretz that it was "a Colombian Entebbe operation." He said, "This is an amazing operation that wouldn't shame any army or special forces anywhere in the world." The only people it shames, apparently, are the neutralists over at the International Red Cross, who put the sanctity of their symbol ahead of the freedom of American hostages.

By tasco66 on Aug 8, 2008, 05:02 in Politics & the war.

tasco66 says on Aug 8, 2008, 05:04:

Did Ingrid also forget to thank the Israelis?

Not being bound to swear to the dogmas of any master

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tasco66 says on Aug 8, 2008, 05:17:

Yep, looks like everyone wants to share the glory

Not being bound to swear to the dogmas of any master

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ietk says on Aug 8, 2008, 05:31:

Bottom line, it was Colombian blood on the line so it is not relevant if they were trained, advised or helped by U.S.A, Israel or any other country.

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Bill Turley (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Aug 8, 2008, 06:02:

I think it is VERY relevant that the USA and Israel were involved. It shows that there is an International Concern with terrorists and that FARC are just that.

Mr. Bill Somondoco

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turnmeon (☼Travelguide writer) says on Aug 8, 2008, 07:50:

didnt we talk about this topic like 5 times already?

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jonas says on Aug 8, 2008, 10:10:

Uribe first assured no emblems of any international organizations had been used in the operation.

That was a lie.

So I guess he himself believes it was not right to use the red cross emblem, otherwise, would he have lied about it?

Mi alma se la dejo al diablo

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tasco66 says on Aug 8, 2008, 10:23:

As far as I know Uribe did not participate in the rescue, so how could he have known about it?

I know this is hard for you lefties to understand, but Uribe can not know what every soldier of the Colombian army is wearing, doing, eating etc…

Not being bound to swear to the dogmas of any master

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jonas says on Aug 8, 2008, 10:31:

So if he didn´t know, how come he made the statement???

Mi alma se la dejo al diablo

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poco says on Aug 8, 2008, 11:11:

Quote: That was a lie.
======
No,, that was ignorance. It is a lie when it can be proven he knew differently,, at the time he said it.

The entire world should start looking for a smoking gun to prove he lied,, well,,, in this case,, a BB gun,, no,,, they don't smoke,, maybe a cap gun ?

Then again,, maybe a red cross isn't really a red cross,, well,, they are both red but one is on the side of an ambulance and the other is ""X"" marks the spot. So, even if he'd seen a photo,, it is logical to believe he thought it was something else,,, maybe the guy had a map in a clear pouch hung over his neck ?

Really,, if Bill Clinton argued over the defination of ""is"" and ""was"",, a mear trifling,, than Uribe was guilty of what ? Cluelessness ? about a red cross ?

Clinton's testimony,,
quote:

It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is. If the--if he--if 'is' means is and never has been, that is not--that is one thing. If it means there is none, that was a completely true statement....Now, if someone had asked me on that day, are you having any kind of sexual relations with Ms. Lewinsky, that is, asked me a question in the present tense, I would have said no. And it would have been completely true.
End quote

What did he say ? He deserved the name Slick Willy.

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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tasco66 says on Aug 8, 2008, 11:15:

So Ingrid was lying too when she said she saw not Red Cross signs?

How come you lefties are not all over her “lies"?

Not being bound to swear to the dogmas of any master

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jonas says on Aug 8, 2008, 11:20:

very low level here again.
I am saying that how could Uribe stand up and make such a statement, guaranteeing that no such emblems had been used in the operation if he didn´t know?
And yes, Ingrid obviously lied about it, too.

Mi alma se la dejo al diablo

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tasco66 says on Aug 8, 2008, 11:21:

"It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is. If the--if he--if 'is' means is and never has been, that is not--that is one thing. If it means there is none, that was a completely true statement....Now, if someone had asked me on that day, are you having any kind of sexual relations with Ms. Lewinsky, that is, asked me a question in the present tense, I would have said no. And it would have been completely true."

Only a leftie could come up with that one...

Not being bound to swear to the dogmas of any master

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jonas says on Aug 8, 2008, 11:24:

And what do you call yourself? Ignorant? Rightwing? Fascist? Conservative?

Mi alma se la dejo al diablo

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tasco66 says on Aug 8, 2008, 11:26:

"And yes, Ingrid obviously lied about it, too."

why would Ingrid lie about it?

Not being bound to swear to the dogmas of any master

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tasco66 says on Aug 8, 2008, 11:27:

I am an informed independent

Not being bound to swear to the dogmas of any master

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pobrecito says on Aug 8, 2008, 11:41:

"I am an informed independent"

jajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajaja

De que vale la vida si cuando la tenemos parece muerta. La vida es para sentirla, para vibrar, para luchar, para combatir. Eso justifica nuestro paso por la tierra........Jaime Pardo Leal

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turnmeon (☼Travelguide writer) says on Aug 8, 2008, 11:50:

THIS SAME TOPIC AGAIN? OMG PEOPEL GIVE UP ALREADY, I bet tomorrow im gonna see somebody else making a new post about the same topic, in conclusion, lets give the hostages back to the farc, lets give them some money for lieng to the farc, lets put Uribe to watch what every soldier wears everyday, lets praise chavez and correa for giving money and help to the farc, are you guys happy with all that? o wait Uribe give up the precidency because 8% of the colombian population doesnt like you, give it to romy maybe, ok are you gusy happy now? ok since you guys got all you guys want then now it is time to stop repeating the same post about the red cross, is there anything else to be said about this? romy say this, i say that, romy say this and then august say that, tomorrow new post same topic and there we go again...

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tasco66 says on Aug 8, 2008, 11:54:

Pobrecito still waiting for you to tell us under which id you used to post here previously:

1) Cassini
2) Buggy
3) Hans Paisa
4) All the above

Jajajaja

Not being bound to swear to the dogmas of any master

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dwmte7 says on Aug 8, 2008, 12:30:

i swear, brother tasco......you need to pick your wars., these aint worth fighting. none of the folks here are the enemy....so lets just have a drink and get on with what ever it is we're doing. drinkin is better than fighting. si o no?

dwmte

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tasco66 says on Aug 8, 2008, 12:46:

Agree, unfortunately I made the dumb vow not to drink any more guaro until all the hostages are released…

Not being bound to swear to the dogmas of any master

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dwmte7 says on Aug 8, 2008, 17:08:

shit, brother, how many times have i 'swore' not to do this or that, only to do it. too many.

et's have a drink and think about the girls and the weather. i don't care what you swore off of. if it's guaro, lets drink rum...if it;s rum, well drink those horrible cervesas. dreck..fuckin beer...can't stand it.

i quit getting high about 35 years ago, then i quit again, then again, then again...now my wife just asks me...did you quit again...of course, sweetie, daily.

dwmte

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romy says on Aug 13, 2008, 21:46:

"I am an informed independent"
hahaha I had missed out on that comedic genius. Independently mislead rings more bells...

"o wait Uribe give up the precidency because 8% of the colombian population doesnt like you, give it to romy maybe"
I formally reject the proposal. My calling is with the people, not with bureaucrats.

Oh and I thought this was related...
Aid group suspends Afghan work after slayings
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iN0mg-1ntgdNJvRgC0YL_VREFFbA

It ain't too cool being an aid worker anymore, thanks to...

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