Freedom of Expresion in Colombia and at PBH

adela says on Mar 31, 2008, 15:53:

Interesting point, Webmanco. Colombians are been abused by the privated media ant their owners. RCN, Caracol, El Tiempo and other canals of information are just sending the info according to president mind every day. For example: why they just covered the info of 4 th Feb march against FARC and did not do the same at all about the 6th March march against paramilitar march?

I try to read and attend all the points of view, but often I see most media are showing partial information.

We hope here at PBH have democracy.

Màs fe, màs abrazos, màs besos, màs disculpas, màs visitas a nuestros amigos antiguos nos haràn màs plenos cada vez.

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juancegomez says on Mar 31, 2008, 16:20:

webmanco: I missed the small riot at the end, but I agree that the earlier parts of the march were mostly peaceful, as I mentioned at the time.

As for censorship and media manipulation, that is also a real concern but it must be handled carefully, case by case.

Not just with sweeping statements, whether you're talking about RCN, Caracol (I can say that Caracol Radio, for example, is better than Caracol TV, and more likely to be skeptical of government information or at least provide alternatives) or simply an internet website. For example...right now, I can't really say much about whatever censorship you've suffered here or on another website, or whether those edits had any just cause or not.

adela: The 6th March mobilization did have media coverage, just not nearly as much and not as blatant, but there was.

EL TIEMPO, for example, didn't give it the same amount of cover or interior space, by any means, but it did clearly mention the march on the proper date and published photos.

The mobilization also lacked (for the most part) other forms of support, outside of the media, such as government or private permits for employees and the like (with exceptions, as I believe public schools in Bogotá did suspend their classes, for example). That's probably, in a way, more worrying.

And honestly, even relatively or actively pro-government sources don't just publish what's "on the president's mind". Even EL TIEMPO, for example, revealed the Carimagua scandal not so long ago, which didn't exactly help the government or minister Arias (aka "Uribito").

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podborski says on Mar 31, 2008, 16:49:

free speech does not mean someone has to provide you with a platform to speak, such as an internet site, a tv station, a megaphone etc.

Free speech means you are allowed to speak your mind whenever you wish, and say what you like.

But no one is obligated to provide listeners to you.

Not giving you airtime on tv or on a private website is NOT censorship.

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webmanco says on Mar 31, 2008, 17:02:

Podborski
Free speech means you are allowed to speak your mind whenever you wish, and say what you like


Not free speech means that what you write is edited or deleted without breaking any rules, I got that clear

One of the guys at the Tao march told me the government is not allowing comunity radio stations in the city, one of the reasons he was marching.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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robi666 says on Mar 31, 2008, 18:14:

"Webmanco you were thrown off of CBlog for harassing members on and off the board, hacking the site and distributing confidential information, NOT because you said something that offended somebody."

Wow... tell us more!
Harassing members? Uhmmm... it doesn't seem Web style...
Hacking? Web is an hacker? Naaahhh...

Nowadays, you can never be sure of anything...

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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tejasmarcos says on Mar 31, 2008, 18:17:

robi luvs the drama......

* do i need to make up a few NEW lies to get things goin? where the hell is the rainmaker, raaay?

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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robi666 says on Mar 31, 2008, 18:19:

Yes, this could be a good thread to build on something for our night entertainment... maybe I should get Ray's password again and post on his name...

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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tejasmarcos says on Mar 31, 2008, 18:21:

2 hackers in one post. will wonders never cease?

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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robi666 says on Mar 31, 2008, 18:24:

Do you think that Medo ran out of names? Tonight seems a perfect night to show up...

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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tejasmarcos says on Mar 31, 2008, 18:28:

robi - i heard raaay was kicked off the board this morning for making physical threats against another pbh member.

atleast that is the rumor.

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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robi666 says on Mar 31, 2008, 18:31:

Wow, IT'S TRUE!

http://poorbuthappy.com/raaaay

"No such user"

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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tejasmarcos says on Mar 31, 2008, 18:36:

dude, i did not want to say anything and be the bearer of bad news. i'm glad you spilled the beans bro.

raaay was a fine man and one hell of a drinker. he'll be sorely missed!

i'm gonna sacrifice a peroni tonight in his honor ;(

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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jaramillo says on Mar 31, 2008, 18:38:

This is Peter's playground, no more, no less. We play by his rules and that is fine. Anyone can start their own web site if they want to. I'll play here.

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tejasmarcos says on Mar 31, 2008, 18:42:

jaramillo - that is why raaay got kicked off the board. he was trying to fly the irish bandera in the face of a belgium owned social forum. peter had enough and said - adios forever raaay. i thought it was a harsh decision, but i guess raaay had it coming. he just would not chill out............ it's sad really, when you think about it.

can't we all just get along?

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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Gator says on Mar 31, 2008, 18:51:

jaramillo says on Monday March 31st, 2008 18:38:

This is Peter's playground, no more, no less. We play by his rules and that is fine. Anyone can start their own web site if they want to. I'll play here.

¡¡¡¡¡¡BINGO!!!!!!

"Brevior Sltare Cum Deformibus Mulieribus Est Vita!" .

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tejasmarcos says on Mar 31, 2008, 18:52:

robi - i hear gator is starting his own website now. did you hear that too?

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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webmanco says on Mar 31, 2008, 19:00:

Rubito, give me proofs otherwise it is BS

"hacking the site and distributing confidential information" big laugh,

In my books to harrass is to offend

You can post them (the proofs) here, but be adviced do not change my words as you did once when quoting me at JDBlog

It is amazing at how many people is mistaken, and come up with nonsense, you can either post them here or by PM, either way is fine with me.

On and off the board, "big laugh". I thought you were more inteligent Rubito, spreading rumors and gossip, I invite all my victims to come up with proofs, just like I said it , "la ignorancia es atrevida". And if you are talking in behalf of your friend, better come out with proofs otherwise again it is BS, and slander.

Anyone else agreeing with Rubito, with proofs come out and spill it out.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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webmanco says on Mar 31, 2008, 19:17:

Be my guest if you are sure about what you are saying, otherwise it is slander, this is not a kitchen to be gosiping around.

I see is not a court but a place to incriminate.

And not I don´t know why are you not posting any evidence.

My PM is alwasy on, always has been. But then again it is fine to post here.

I also invited all PBH members who got PM from people badmouthing me to send me PM, if you wish, of those low punches against me.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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webmanco says on Mar 31, 2008, 19:27:

I am glad you post it, I feel sorry for it is a mistake, not to post it but for your erroneous beliefs. As I said "la ignorancia es atrevida"

And for some people claiming not to have any prejudice, go figure.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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webmanco says on Mar 31, 2008, 19:30:

Rubito
YOU are the one who is lying about your own conduct

I will write again what I said on an edited and then deleted post. (talking about manipulation of the media)

Hay veces en que ser honesto no paga. I should add, honesto y buena gente.

Not that I am a Saint, but in this case, many people had been brainwashed.

Maybe sleeping with the enemy should ring a bell.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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robi666 says on Mar 31, 2008, 21:14:

shhhh.... :)

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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robi666 says on Mar 31, 2008, 21:31:

"Rubito says on Monday March 31st, 2008 19:16:
This is a forum, not a court. And we both know why I'm not posting any evidence."

rubi, ok, let's forget about the harassing thing... but what do you mean he hacked the site?

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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webmanco says on Mar 31, 2008, 21:39:

I want to know too.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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RAAAY says on Mar 31, 2008, 21:42:

What's this thread about.............I don't see anything............well......maybe I should'nt have put EVERYBODY on ignore................


.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

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webmanco says on Mar 31, 2008, 21:43:

Welcome back Raay, you are on the right .....aay

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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tejasmarcos says on Apr 1, 2008, 08:08:

WELCOME BACK RAAAY! How the shell did you get Peter to give you your account back? Did you pay him cash? If so, how much? Dude, you are like houdini!

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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Colombiche says on Apr 4, 2008, 09:15:

Let's stop being cryptic now. I am trying to avoid this topic but fuck it, I am going public with this.

Back at cblog my account was hacked into, somebody distributed pm's that violated my privacy and caused me months of grief in my personal life (are you happy now?????). I received threats to my life and person for several months. I am not making this up, I have several witnesses that can speak up right now because they saw the entire situation unfold before their eyes.

I am not a troll, I am a real person and some people here know me and can attest to that.


The guilty party is OFFICIALLY getting away with it (clap clap clap) I have warned Peter and Desi that the guilty party walks among us, but so far all I hear is my own echo. Peter, we need more security and control, URGENTLY. I would hate for this to happen to another one of the ladies here at PBH, to have to go through this.

I tried really hard to keep this low key but I can't anymore... I just can't deal with it, I can't.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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vicshere says on Apr 4, 2008, 09:26:

well this is interesting ...because last year I had almost the same problem here on PBH and the mods did very little about....actually I was blamed for sending threatening and instigating attacks over email and what not......well it nice to know I am not alone...and I also think the culprit still walks among us here as we speak

listo

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webmanco says on Apr 4, 2008, 09:46:

Rubito elaborate please.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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vicshere says on Apr 4, 2008, 09:55:

why doesnt this appear on the active??????

listo

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webmanco says on Apr 4, 2008, 09:59:

Because is a gosht thread

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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webmanco says on Apr 4, 2008, 10:13:

Thanks for sharing Colombiche. I wish you, Rubito and all your several witnesess could elaborate some more.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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aztec says on Apr 4, 2008, 10:15:

Colombiche and vicshere, I am way past learning anything about PC's but can you tell me how you can be sure the harassers were from these two sites? Was there no way to stop the harassment short of banning someone.

This bit about this being a site owned by Peter is getting old. The defense is if you don't like it go start one of your own. He puts the site up for discourse and then places restrictions on free speech.

If free speech is not going to be allowed then say so and lets move on. Make no pretense of unfettered honest opinions. Rather what we will have is filtered and distorted.

For example, nothing bad about Colombia or the women of Colombia. Both of which I have a high regard. I just believe we should hear what other people who have some actual experiences may say about the subject. No matter how outrageous.

My observations of some of the absolutely horrid posts is they eventually run their course without intervention. Other posters manage to bring it back to sanity without instructions from moderators.

And another thing while I am on the subject. The fact that Rubito is an active poster on both sites is evidence there is hope the sites remain somewhat free for expressions of any color. If he gets banned then freedom of expression here is a thing of the past!

In summary, perhaps my defense of freedom of expression is culturally derived and is a product of having been born and raised in the United States. It is no accident that freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the very First Amendment of our Constitution.

Ideas people may find distasteful are generally permitted. Even here, though, there are exceptions to the general protection of speech.

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Man Tequila says on Apr 4, 2008, 11:04:

The idea that people take this board so seriously that they harrass other people here is a scary one, and largely unrelated to freedom of speech. The moderators do a good job, which does not mean they would make the same calls you would. It's kind of a thankless job. Maybe some of the 125k salaries should be spent on infrastructure. I'm sorry, Colombiche, that you were put through this.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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Peter (Moderator) says on Apr 4, 2008, 11:28:

We're checking out the allegations. Meanwhile: free speech is allowed here, following the rules, which seem pretty sensible to me, and we do our best to apply them the best we can.

Poor but snappy

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MaFe says on Apr 4, 2008, 15:31:

This is very surprising, and extremely unethical, not to mention immature of the person doing this!!...Now does this mean that Monpirri was right when he said our Pm's were being looked into?

"All human actions have one or more of these seven causes: chance, nature, compulsions, habit, reason, passion, desire. "-Aristotle

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webmanco says on Apr 4, 2008, 15:49:

All PM are logged, wether they are looked into for diffent purposes than the safety and privacy of posters, that is another issue.

Remember that what happened was originated elsewhere but brought up here.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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Monpirri says on Apr 5, 2008, 10:07:

I am in favor of the Freedom of Speech here and in any democratic country that observes such important law!

MAC

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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CatGirl says on Apr 26, 2008, 00:14:

Rubito "Webmanco you were thrown off of CBlog for harassing members on and off the board, hacking the site and distributing confidential information, NOT because you said something that offended somebody."

Amor, I know this is quite an old post, but I was off the site for a quite some time and found this. So you know....this happened to me. I don;t know who did it and really could friggin care less. Although it did cause me to cut off many on PBH I was communicating with offline.
I have no time to waste my valuable energy on who did this, I handed the information over to the proper governing agency(s) let them figure it out, educated myself, protected my computer and moved forward. Interesting I was not alone. OK - enough said on this topic.
White hat hackers are a totally different animal that black hat, but when it...gets a bit too personal - geez, come on!

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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