Forgiving?

scotty says on Sep 21, 2007, 10:12:

i also notice that when im in Colombia, it seems to me that the colombians will screw their friends, relatives whoever, they may have a spat and even stop talking toeach other for awhile but they soon get over it and move on.
Im like you there are certain things that i do not forgive and i always remember and as you there are some things that are just unexceptable.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

robi666 says on Sep 21, 2007, 11:08:

Yep Lowell!
This is a thing about Colombia that I did not understand yet! They do terrible things to each other and then... it is suddenly all ok. I stopped telling my wife which friends are positive persons to count on and which are just to forget. I just look at it, enjoy and wait for next ride... as long as I do not have to do anything more than watch :-)
It is not a matter of forgiving but of not doing the same mistakes over and over again...

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

Chelesupercono says on Sep 21, 2007, 11:41:

Well you are all dead on about he meanness they inflict on one another....but to be fair to the Colombians, I have lived in several Latin countries and traveled to many more. I find that this kind of behavior is intrinsic to Latin Culture.....it is the same in all of these countries!!! One just has to accept it but also remember the GOLDEN RULES:

1.) Kindness is Weakness
2.) No good deed goes Unpunished

I only allow the chosen few to get close the rest you must keep away from you. The hard Truth!!!

never go to bed with someone crazier then you are, you will do it and you will regret it.......

Waterdawg says on Sep 21, 2007, 12:27:

The behavior is intrinsic to all of the Latin Culture's & yes, Kindness is preceived as Weakness !

RUV says on Sep 21, 2007, 13:18:

I see the same shit in my family. I see it in my uncles, aunts and cousins.

You just avoid them as much as possible, wear a stupid smile and move on. Tell them you are broke, so no one ask for money.

LA_MONA says on Sep 21, 2007, 13:27:

RUV you sound like my other half, he says smile, ask how the family is, be really polite and then move on quickly, don't waste time with people who have/will mess you around but always stay polite, friendly and smiley with them, anywhere in the world.

Para volar, es preciso tener resistencia. -M.Lin

Lowell says on Sep 21, 2007, 13:37:

Even today they were jertks. I was going to cut them some more slack. But, why? It's clear they don't respect me. Next month no help. May I RIP if my wife kills me. From now on I'll only help the abuela and una nina.

Alfred E. Newman. "What. Me Worry?"

dwmte7 says on Sep 21, 2007, 15:00:

well, lowell...welcome to colombia. if there's anything that characterizes so many paisas it's that they'll rip you off with a smile. i don't mean that it's a trait of all, but i know they'll do it to their own family members...other's outside the family? trust GOD, but tie your camel.

it wasnt til i moved into the mountains that i cut down on the bullshit factor. it was still there but on a much reduced level. part of it's understandable, as the general population has grown up with a wholly corrupt government, from top to bottom, and side to side, therefore, the attitude...'if the president can rip me off, why shouldn't i/we rip off others.

one of the reasons i don't like the lake penol area. the entire shoreline of the lake is covered with the houses of public officials who have plundered the population. arg!
dw

dwmte

Lowell says on Sep 21, 2007, 15:09:

tomorrow I'm advising the family that i no longer have the capability to help them anymore. and actually that's the truth. i've been putting myself on the back burner so to speak for 4 years. my turn now.

Alfred E. Newman. "What. Me Worry?"

Lowell says on Sep 21, 2007, 15:19:

So, are Colombians more forgiving or what?

Alfred E. Newman. "What. Me Worry?"

Boatygringo says on Sep 21, 2007, 15:40:

My oservation is that you may come to Colombia to live, you may speek fluent spanish but unless you are born into the culture you will never get to know it. The lack of repect for other people is amazing, especialy on the coast. Loud music untill 6 am from neiborhood houses, why because they want to listen to loud music, seems also that they constanly confuse generosity with stupidity. Yesterday my neibor came to my door and wanted the two guavas that had fell fom here tree onto my patio back. My neibor in the upper apartment asked me to pay 20.000 extra on the water bill because my toilet had had a leak, she is a doctor and her huband is a lawyer, totaly forgetting that I pay the cable bill and they tap into it for free and that I lived alone for a year yet still paid half of the water bill.

Boatygringo

RUV says on Sep 21, 2007, 17:27:

La Mona,

That is me.

Robert Jorge says on Sep 21, 2007, 19:38:

Boatygringo, two can play that game. If your vacinos want to charge you 20.000 mil for a leaky toilet, cut their damn pirated cable. I would say to them, "I am sorry about the extra water - here is 10.000 mil." "And, if it becomes a problem again, I'll just have to stop my cable service because I can't afford the extra expenses." I would actually just cut their cable though - but that's just me.

I lived in Colombia for a relatively short time, but I did not care for my neighbors either. They actually complained to the guards about petty things a few times. I finally just started playing the game back at them. Slamming the door at every opportunity, Going out at night, but leaving the TV on with high volume. I started off trying to be as low profile as possible, but after having security called on me for things like "a slight tobacco scent", or "the washer was running at 9:30pm and loud", I became an asshole right back at them.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

poco says on Sep 21, 2007, 20:51:

Quote: unless you are born into the culture you will never get to know it.

Looks like you understand. The rest is adjustment and going with the flow, don't paddle upstream.

It's a fact. Kindness is a show of weakness. Wonder why most don’t tip?

I’ll add this: People DO NOT do anything unless they are paid or there is some financial reason to provide help. Help someone for FREE,, nope, not Colombia.

Loud, yes they are and I'd suggest taking some of these.


Girls 15th birthday, holidays, parades, cars driving down the street with loud speakers notifying of events, sales, water outages, drunken parties, car stereos blaring,,, the list is enormous.

The U.S. has zoning or land restrictions. Live in one area, party somewhere else.

Not so for most of Colombia. A majority DO NOT have resources to go to a club, bar or any other form of entertainment, at least on a regular basis. The only thing they can afford on a regular basis is a BOOM BOX type stereo and alcohol.

You might think there is a sense of community or family or these are a bunch of people who love to party. Nope, they have limited choices due to limited money and can't afford to go anywhere or do much more than get drunk.

The openness of the houses makes a loud party a block away seem much closer.

PS: Don't use the hard plastic plugs, don't work. Use the foam type, you’ll probably learn how to use them. After a few years you'll get accustomed to the noise.

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

miamimike says on Sep 21, 2007, 21:01:

In many trips to Bogota, I witnessed many family and Marital Spats. I oberved many times 4 sisters fight like Hell with each other, all jealous of what the others have, then a few weeks later, all is forgotten until the next fight, which was sure to come as a daily sunrise in another month. Cheating in the family was and is Tolerated(maybe less with the Current generation of educated Colombian women but still tolerated). I saw Cheating Husbands (and a fair number of cheating wives also; anyone who thinks the Col Women/wives don't cheat, I have some dry swampland in the Florida everglades for sale) punished for a few days or weeks but in a month or so, they were accepted back into the family's Good graces. If an American Husband cheated 1/4 as much and his wife having discovered it, he would find his Bags packed and sitting out on the CURB when he returned home from a Night of Adventure. Not so with Colombianas, as long as a Cheating Mujeriego of a Husband brings home a few Pesos, he's back in like Flynn,,,LOL,,,Crazy, Happens here in Miami also on a regular basis with all Spanish Groups, not just Colombia. Domestic Violence is a HUGE problem here in Latin Miami,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,

Robert Jorge says on Sep 21, 2007, 21:42:

Very true Miamimike. I knew guys in Miami who couldn't keep their sususoodios in their pants, and got busted for it all the time. 2 days, 5 days, 2 weeks later, they were back with their girlfriends, wives.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

john_stark says on Sep 21, 2007, 21:56:

They blame it on la brujeria. It's a "get out of jail free" card. You can bang her best friend, her sisters, her coworkers, her burra....and blame it all on la brujeria. All is forgiven because you just couldn't help yourself.

Lowell says on Sep 22, 2007, 08:24:

Today my sister-in-law is moving/sneaking out of her mothers house, while her mom is away. Not even enough backbone to sit down with her mother who has taken care of her for over 23 years, and explain to her, her desire to live away from the house. Jerk. I'll bet all's forgotten/forgivien within a month. And would probably be accepted back into the house at a moments notice. Not in my house!

Alfred E. Newman. "What. Me Worry?"

Tinto (Moderator) says on Sep 22, 2007, 08:31:

Congratulations! PBH has coined a new slang word for the penis. After extensive research (1 minute on Google and Wikipedia) I learned that "Sussudio" is an imaginary girl's name in the song by Phil Collins, meant to symbolize any girl. The reference to a penis is something PBH made up.

So...Be loud, be proud and use it often. Maybe "sussudio" will show up in the Urban Dictionary someday. Ha-ha, what a bad unintentional pun.

Chelesupercono says on Sep 22, 2007, 08:32:

Shameless people cannot be embarrassed.....where there is no honor there is no pride.....that about sums it up for 90% of them.....

never go to bed with someone crazier then you are, you will do it and you will regret it.......

poco says on Sep 22, 2007, 10:28:

Phil Collins sings about penises?

Tenjooberrymuds.

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

David Pristupa says on Sep 22, 2007, 15:08:

Perhaps there is less guilt in showing bad emotions in Latin cultures where as in Anglo
cultures everyone is supposed to be SO NICE. The other day I saw a guy chasing his
friend into a park and hurled a brick at him. They torn each other clothes and it was over
as if it never happened. People were leaving the 6 o clock mass and weren't phased by it.

pedro says on Sep 22, 2007, 15:48:

David, you nailed it. In Anglo cultures, we tend to bottle things up inside and not say anything. And then suddenly snap when the accumulated resentment gets too much.

One of my goals is to just speak out immediately if something did not sit right with me, and then move on.

I think it also comes from a belief of "if this person does X to me, it means they don't care about me or look at me with contempt".

If you want to know what I'm talking about, try being 10 minutes late for a meeting with a Scandinavian.

This is not excusing Colombian behaviour on all counts. There are times when they do treat other people with outright contempt.

que nota!

pedro says on Sep 22, 2007, 15:53:

Tinto, just checked that Wikipedia entry:

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sussudio
"Collins said that "Sussudio" is an imaginary girl's name meant to symbolize any girl. The song is about having a crush on someone young."
-

Could be an appropriate theme song for PBH, at least for the Pasty Bald and Horny subgroup of members.

que nota!

Desideria (Moderator) says on Sep 22, 2007, 16:02:

I've got no reference link, nothing, but a long ´time ago i read something about the Virgin Mary vs. Patriarchal Jehova cultures and how they influenced the thinking process of their respective socitiies.

According to that theory, the Roman Catholic countries are more forgiving than Lutheran/Episcopalian/Methodist/Whatever countries. Just like Virgin Mary, our Mother and Mediator, will pray for us sinners at the our of our deaths, the unforgiving God of the Israelis will condemn us to eternal brimstone and sulphur bath with no excuses if we done wrong.

According to this theory, the countries and the societies that profess Roman Catholic Faith with the Virgin Mary adoration are gentler, more forgiving and more permissive by nature.

Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

goin_south says on Sep 22, 2007, 19:39:

wow Desi; that's almost enough to give in and get married in the catholic church, if that's what SHE wants. Sounds like my 'chances will be better' all the way around.

Especially, if I can also master the 'Brujeria' John_Starks is always bringing to Fame ;)

and, thank you.

Robert Jorge says on Sep 22, 2007, 20:33:

I asked Mrs. RJ about the "brujeria", in reference to the excuse for cheating issue. She never heard of the concept - unless I am either not articulating it correctly (quite possible), or she doesn't want to admit she knows what that is all about. She was pretty sincere when I asked her about it and I told her I was curious because it was a reappearing word used here on PBH.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

goin_south says on Sep 22, 2007, 21:05:

jajjja... RJ... No Brujeria para ti ;)
sorry, pal.

and, thank you.

goin_south says on Sep 22, 2007, 21:08:

There are a few old threads from a few years back on pbh.
(Desi...) Peter... it would help 'searching', if we had the 'Search PBH' window again.

But, 'Brujeria' has always seemed (to me) one of those issues that seems fun to rerun again and again, at least from j_s's perspectivos. But, then I think he's the only one who writes about it, so.... how will we know? maybe have to start a whole new thread,... now that time has passed and many new members on pbh.

and, thank you.

miamimike says on Sep 22, 2007, 21:29:

Pedro-I don't know which American Culture(and where) keeps things bottled up! We Sure Don't where I'm from, we talk straight, we are "loose cannons", a better word. In work and out of Work, I talk the same! What did John McCain call his 2004 Political Campaign, the "Straight Talk Express???" LOL In my part of America where I grew up,, the Northeast and Midwest, we say what is one our mind, if anything, the American Culture where I am from, we were raised to be this way. Straight talking, shoot from the Hip, damn the political Correctness. Think of us as a "Rubito" minus the Cussing! LOL Sorry Rubito.I'll give Rubito a an A for saying what is on his mind! I have been told by many many Latinos(as) that "You guys are too forward and open in your talking" Better to be this way then impart or infer the wrong message and I see this in many latin countries.Lack of straight talk. For instance, it was discussed here a while back on PBH, some Americans were complaining that when they make plans with a Latina on a Monday, then they reserve that day and time slot for that Date, appointment ect. Come Saturday, when the latina is questioned about it, they either are not home or made other plans, completely disregarding the plans they made with the other person on Monday.They also disrespected the Time(the most valuable commodity we have) of that person. It seems like many make a plan for Saturday and if nothing better comes along, they keep the original plan but if a better oppurtunity happens by, they drop the original plan and go with the new and better option. LOL Better for the Person(latina) to say on Monday, "I'm sorry, I prefer not to commit to a specific time and date" so the other person does not waste his/her time.This is a Lack of Straight Talk and they sent the person the wrong message by beating around the bush. Be Honest and talk frankly, its the best policy,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,

goin_south says on Sep 22, 2007, 21:32:

Acuerdo, miamimike:
Mother Theresa said:
"If you are honest and frank, people may cheat you;
Be honest and frank anyway."

and, thank you.

Robert Jorge says on Sep 22, 2007, 21:39:

Great, great point Miamimike. I think a "touche" is in order.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

christobeldawg says on Sep 22, 2007, 21:53:

Something is definitely very different in Colombia, culturally, than in the US. I have seen several times people saying one thing to me, and then doing something completely different, as if they want to avoid any direct confrontation, or just as if they would rather be polite than not. I have seen some of it in the southern US, that idea of not being direct with people. I believe it is still better to be kind there, but maybe I should learn to be a little more firm with people in demanding straight talk from them. I am definitely still totally confused by the cultural difference. It can be maddening at times.

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

john_stark says on Sep 22, 2007, 21:59:

To get the scoop on la brujeria, just ask her if she knows of any brujas or any instances where someone was practicing brujeria. Believe me, it's all over the place. I'm a little tongue in cheek when I say it's a "Get out of Jail" free card but it worked for that gringo who was banging his brother-in-law's wife. She was a bruja so they all excused him. My mother-in-law even had a priest come to exorcise the house in Monteria because a bruja had put a spell on it.

Robert Jorge says on Sep 22, 2007, 23:10:

I guess I asked her correctly JS. But I'll bring it up again. I would love to have a get out of jail free card though. I have no need to cash it in: But like insurance, it is comforting to know it is there - just in case! jajaja

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

goin_south says on Sep 22, 2007, 23:44:

jejje

and, thank you.

goin_south says on Sep 22, 2007, 23:44:

Feels a lil like Monopoly Amor, eh? ;) jejje

and, thank you.

christobeldawg says on Sep 22, 2007, 23:51:

if we gotta deal with that seeming nonsense guys, that with all the other cultural differences, I may have to reconsider all of this

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

christobeldawg says on Sep 22, 2007, 23:51:

.

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

Lowell says on Sep 24, 2007, 07:30:

Saturday, My mother in law was having a bad day as one of the daughters deceided it was time to move away from the house. Actually, I think that she just got real tired of the nit picking and other nonsence that spews out of her mothers mouth. All the time!

Well anyway, her grand daughter was acting up a bit, so she started spanking her real hard. Harder than called for and didn't want to stop. My wife had to put herself between them to stop her. This isn't the first time that this type of thing has happened in that house. It seems to be a monthly sport. My wife even had her jaw broken a few years back by her mother when she hit her with a stick. About a month ago my wife's son was whipped with a belt and had black and blue bruises the next day. Several times during our so many senceless arguments, my wife has put her face into my and has said, "pega mi, pega mi". I refuse to do so and it angers her more. I won't lower myself to their gutter standards. These people truly deserve some of their own medicine.

Today it's as if nothing ever happened. That's real messed up! In my Anal Gringo mind, I can't accept or forgive that. For the last 4 days in a row my wife has been spewing nothing but crap. So much so, that I have to leave MY house. When I return later, usaully with beer on my breath, it picks up again. The other day she started in on her son, soon after her got out of bed. He hadn't even had the chance to do anything wrong. I had to tell her, "If you're not happy with me, that's fine. Take it out on me, not him".

Where are the "beautiful Colombians" I keep hearing about? I'm sure that it's only a matter of time before one of them takes it out on my daughter. Then it'll be time for war. One of my doctors has a wife that is the head lawyer for family services in my town. She/he will be contacted when that happens.

Alfred E. Newman. "What. Me Worry?"

LA_MONA says on Sep 24, 2007, 07:38:

Lowell you live with your suegra? That's nuts, I get on with my suegra, we love each other but if we lived together I'm sure it would be a different story.

As to your wife saying "pegame!" I'm sure she doesn't mean it. There's nothing more infuriating than getting in a fight with your other half and they are stone cold cool acting indifferently, sometimes instead of calming things it makes it worse.

Para volar, es preciso tener resistencia. -M.Lin

Lowell says on Sep 24, 2007, 07:44:

They live next door. I did this so it would be easier for my wife family to particpate with our baby. Stupid me! Oh, I've really gotten back into her face several times and have several times belly bounced her away from my face. Hit her no way.

Alfred E. Newman. "What. Me Worry?"

LA_MONA says on Sep 24, 2007, 07:54:

belly bounced? jaja hey I think that may be classed as violence so be careful!

Well if her mum has brought her up that way, then what can you expect? It's hard to get rid of those behavioural patterns. In your situation, if she started to get in my face I would leave and not come back for a while, that will give her time to calm down.

If I was you I would stay in the town but not next door, you need time with your wife and daughter alone the three of you so you can have some privacy!

Para volar, es preciso tener resistencia. -M.Lin

kat1 (Moderator) says on Sep 24, 2007, 08:33:

time to turn gay

engage brain before opening mouth

Lowell says on Sep 24, 2007, 08:40:

I've done a lot to my place and really like it. It's also up on a small hill and I built a patio on top of my upper story. I have a nice view of part of the valley and surrounding mountains. The street is a dead end street, so it's a bit safer for the kids to play in the street. Strata 2-3, so utilities are less. For what limited money that I had, this area was the most logical.

Leaving doesn't help and there's not much to do. I will be leaving more during the day with my daughter as soon as it's reasonable to do so. That is if my wife lets her. I refuse to get into big spats with her infront of my daughter.

Privacy? Why, so my wife can dish out more crud? We have private time every weekday after her son leaves for school before 7 am. Kisses, hugs, romance, gentle talk....? HA. I've adopted the attitude of ignoring anything that comes out of her mouth that has no value. hence, I'm not saying much. So far today 0 from me. Also, getting in her face when she's into mine only makes me madder and is more stressful.

I'd really like to get away for a few days. However, my daughter likes her daddy and she's not happy if she doesn't get her daily morning, afternoon and evening time with him. Most of the time I'm the last person she see's before going to sleep. We always watch "High 5" on Discoverykids at 8:30 every evening. When she goes to sleep she's moved to her crib that's in our room. And of course daddy's crazy in love withg his baby girl!

Alfred E. Newman. "What. Me Worry?"

Mike19 says on Sep 24, 2007, 17:07:

kat1 - no way after looking at you that any guy can turn gay...

john_stark says on Sep 24, 2007, 17:40:

Kat turned me into a lesbian slut.

Mike19 says on Sep 24, 2007, 18:07:

ahahahha good one john

ahda007 says on Sep 25, 2007, 13:11:

lowel, it seems to me that your child will be well brought up. I am glad to hear a well being, being raised in colombia :).

Lowell says on Sep 25, 2007, 13:57:

Thanks, I'm trying. I'm a first time dad, so each day is new. I'm very lucky to be retired and have all the time for her that she needs. I never thought I'd be into this so much.

Alfred E. Newman. "What. Me Worry?"

LA_MONA says on Sep 25, 2007, 14:00:

Good for you Lowell, that's lovely, enjoy every minute.

Para volar, es preciso tener resistencia. -M.Lin

robi666 says on Sep 25, 2007, 14:14:

Lowell, you seem to be a good guy who loves children... wanna work for me baby-sitting my boy?
...he's actually making me MAD! :-)

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

Man Tequila says on Sep 25, 2007, 14:22:

You seem like a great guy, Lowell.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

houstongal says on Sep 25, 2007, 14:25:

Sweet looking boy Robi!

Culture is language and language is culture - Dr. Annamaria Napolitano

Lowell says on Sep 25, 2007, 14:38:

not that I'm a great guy. no saint here. just want to do what's right for Ana Karina and maybe provide a better family situation than what i grew up with.

Alfred E. Newman. "What. Me Worry?"

lpdiver says on Oct 3, 2007, 04:19:

The divers golden rule is taught by my mother.

"Son if someone screws you once... shame on them! If someone screws you twice shame on YOU!"

More forgiving or not so bright?

t

"cook some rice!"

Chelesupercono says on Oct 3, 2007, 06:34:

diver you are sooooo right!!!

never go to bed with someone crazier then you are, you will do it and you will regret it.......

Lowell says on Oct 3, 2007, 11:25:

My ballgame only allows 1 strike.

Alfred E. Newman. "What. Me Worry?"