Foreclosed Real Estate---Bogota

RAAAY says on Apr 8, 2008, 20:12:

... " They don't own and hold.........they flip."

Who are they...?


.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

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gringoloid says on Apr 8, 2008, 20:13:

i was looking through metrocuadrado.com for the first time in about 10 months and was quite surprised at the increase in real estate prices in that very short time. I honestly think that it is more to live here than in Orange County, CA.

Many average apartments are now renting in the $2500-$3000 usd range that were one third less a year ago.

The difference between MDE and BTA is also notable......much less in MDE.

is this a bubble in BTA or what?

Who are the three blind men?

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miamimike says on Apr 8, 2008, 20:18:

G'Loid--those foreclosed Condos in Metro go quick if its a good deal. Be prepared to move FAST with cash in Hand.

My Avatar-- Sarah Palin Says " "You know the difference between a pit bull and a hockey mom?? Lipstick!" Now on a Short Verbal Tether by the Honorable John McCain

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webmanco says on Apr 8, 2008, 20:18:

Lots of properties on metrocuadrado are posted by Central de Inversiones, many people look for bargains there.

Need to be careful because a few properties might have hidden costs.
(CISA)
http://www.centraldeinversiones.com.co/index.php?module=ContentExpress...

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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gringoloid says on Apr 8, 2008, 20:24:

Raay, its just some friends of mine..........all lawyers. I've seen the books and one of them does pretty good with this and has been doing it for a long time.

they sell for double of what they paid.

There didn't seem to be any shortage apartments.........one bank had about 40 or 50 of these repo's.

Who are the three blind men?

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RAAAY says on Apr 8, 2008, 20:27:

Ahhhhh............. I just could'nt grasp who you were referring to, when you said " they "......

Now, I get it............Com'n gringoloid, I'm slow, you have to be really clear......



.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

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tejasmarcos says on Apr 8, 2008, 20:28:

so, let's buy some properties in bogota. are there some gems in that group GL?

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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gringoloid says on Apr 8, 2008, 20:29:

sorry raay..............i started with smirnoff and then switched to club colombia.................................please don't ask me to be clear at this hour!

Who are the three blind men?

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darkangel305 says on Apr 8, 2008, 20:30:

but as a foreigner you need to have all the money in hand right
how can i find 'listing' in cartagena?

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gringoloid says on Apr 8, 2008, 20:31:

ahhh webmanco.........the little lady is sleeping and i don't want to wake her up............i can't read that spanish link................i'll have someone translate tomorrow.

Who are the three blind men?

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RAAAY says on Apr 8, 2008, 20:31:

Ahhhh......... I just had a few smirnoffs myself.............here in Florida, with nice ,fresh squeezed orange juice............none of that bottled shit......



.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

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webmanco says on Apr 8, 2008, 20:33:

Gringoloid they got an office in Niza Bulevard, and they got a listing for the Country.

http://www.centraldeinversiones.com.co/inmuebles/

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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gringoloid says on Apr 8, 2008, 20:36:

darkangel.........most of this meeting was in spanish............but i understood that you have to go to the banks.............but don't take my word, I don't speak spanish that well.

Who are the three blind men?

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Frank Rizzo says on Apr 8, 2008, 20:38:

Keep us posted GL.......i'm interested too..

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gringoloid says on Apr 8, 2008, 20:40:

tj............i've known one of these gentlemen for quite sometime.............he does very well with this...............so there must be good properties.

i've seen his receipts and he very often pays ten grand and sells for 25 grand usd. and he flips this kind of fast.

but i'm asking you guys here for advice on this...................and you guys are asking me.

maybe when everyone else reads this they can input their experiences.

but i know these people and it seems clean to me, so far.

Who are the three blind men?

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RAAAY says on Apr 8, 2008, 20:40:

Frank...............go into any of your local banks...........they all have a fella in charge of off loading their stuff..........he'll pull his files............if there is something you like....he might do a deal without putting it out on the street.........

But, having the money in your pocket will dictate that..


.

.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

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Frank Rizzo says on Apr 8, 2008, 20:42:

It's not that clean from what my Med. attys have told me.....ie. not as clean and a US repo....

It was a couple years ago i looked into this...and they warned against it...so i'd like to hear more.... from what i remember....once you buy and put in all the money..there is a public time when someone can still make claims for money owed...and you then may have to pay more...but that's just something fuzzy...so i'm not sure...

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gringoloid says on Apr 8, 2008, 20:42:

ok, web.....................so you say i go over to Niza Blvd and talk to the Central de Inversiones?

i'll take a translator with me as i will never make a deal again in all spanish.

thanks for the tip

Who are the three blind men?

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tejasmarcos says on Apr 8, 2008, 20:52:

sounds like something similar to a redemption period in the usa.

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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Frank Rizzo says on Apr 8, 2008, 20:52:

I really don't remember Rubito....it was like 2 years ago...and it was those remate sales they have......you make a deposit at a bank for an amount....then..the bidding starts at like 40% of the estimated value....on the sale we were interested in....then its your job to get them out...

but, there was something about the remate...that was different than the normal purchase...where you have all the tax, etc. just checked out and paid....

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gringoloid says on Apr 8, 2008, 20:52:

Rubito, so i guess I would have to take care of these liens as part of the deal. I can think of some other problems too, like people still in the place. i just went through something like that...............went over with the police and it took two months to get them out.

Who are the three blind men?

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tejasmarcos says on Apr 8, 2008, 20:54:

eviction notice served by sheriffs dept.

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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gringoloid says on Apr 8, 2008, 20:55:

these friends of mine want to expand and do like 5 or 6 of these at a time, that's why they invited me into this deal. it seems you can get a much better deal that way.

Who are the three blind men?

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tejasmarcos says on Apr 8, 2008, 20:57:

let's do it...

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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RAAAY says on Apr 8, 2008, 20:59:

How well do you know them...........not that matters much............when it comes to business they have two things to be wary about.........they are attorneys........and they are Colombian.
Keep your eyes open..............feet for dancing.....head for thinking.

.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

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Frank Rizzo says on Apr 8, 2008, 21:08:

http://www.propiedadraiz.tk/

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gringoloid says on Apr 8, 2008, 21:09:

no raay, that's a fair question..........and of course, you have to be wary everywhere in the world.

i've known them since before i moved here from the internet.

i've partied with them at least 5 times a month and met them in their offices for lunch.

in terms of lawyers, these are really the top of the line.

quick story: I was in colombia for my first 3 days and went to a party at one guys apartment. sitting next to me on the sofa was the speaker of the house of the colombian congress. that's like sitting next to nancy pelosi. i've learned to really trust these people.

Who are the three blind men?

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gringoloid says on Apr 8, 2008, 21:11:

Rubito, when are you coming to bogota?

Who are the three blind men?

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RAAAY says on Apr 8, 2008, 21:11:

That makes a difference..............your origional post did'nt have anything to suggest you knew them............

.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

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gringoloid says on Apr 8, 2008, 21:18:

Rubito, the second part of my OP is that there is some kind of a real estate bubble going on here in BTA...............I just can't believe what they're getting for rent or for vendidos.

these prices around here are absurd; that's why i want to move to medellin and harass Raay.

Who are the three blind men?

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Apr 8, 2008, 21:20:

sitting next to me on the sofa was the speaker of the house of the colombian congress. that's like sitting next to nancy pelosi. i've learned to really trust these people. - Gringoloid

-----------------------------

That's unintentionally funny. I'd trust a senior U.S. politician about as far as I can throw them. As for the Colombian ones, I think 22 have been yanked from congress and are now in jail and another 50 are under investigation for their ties to the paramilitaries.

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gringoloid says on Apr 8, 2008, 21:26:

that's true tinto, but just being here three days......i thought it was pretty cool.

i don't want to disparage colombia or upset any colombians on this site..................................but tinto, i live and work here, do you think there is a govt worker that can't be bribed?

Who are the three blind men?

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RAAAY says on Apr 8, 2008, 21:38:

......... " that's why i want to move to medellin and harass Raay."

You might not have me to harass..........I'm looking at a trucking company here in the States that is a good deal.............mainly because the industry is taking a battering..........who knows............it's over in your neck of the woods.......Central Coast........I'd never heard of it before.........you know it..?


.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

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miamimike says on Apr 8, 2008, 21:51:

These foreclosed properties on Metro aren't a new or closely guarded secret, they have been around for the better part of 10 years,,,

My Avatar-- Sarah Palin Says " "You know the difference between a pit bull and a hockey mom?? Lipstick!" Now on a Short Verbal Tether by the Honorable John McCain

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poco says on Apr 8, 2008, 22:05:

Rubito Quote: FR what you are saying is that in Colombia they will allow you to close even with active liens against the property.

Ahh,, Colombian real estate, a good reason to have a trusted lawyer as part of the operation. Finding out AFTER purchase the property has a lien is something that won't have in the U.S. but then again, title insurance is normally mandatory.

There are quite a few repo's in Bogota that are being flipped. I talked with a construction guy that was doing the fixup/remodel for 4 units purchased for about 25 million each, 5 or so fixup costs and "flipped" as you say for around 50 million. You do need cash.

Off hand, I'd say a forclosure title given by a bank, should be good BUT what if the bank didn't know there were outstanding liens? Maintenance fees, taxes etc. This would not be even remotely common but there is always murphys law or someone out to screw you.

Before you do this,,, determine if you can get the new owner financed,, or carry the note. When they don't pay,, repo,, fixup and resell.

I can't help but wonder why a bank would sell a property for less than what could be obtained after fixup? but,, it seems they do.

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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christobeldawg says on Apr 9, 2008, 10:02:

I noticed some nice Estrato 4 apartments for sale there. They seemed reasonable but if having to pay cash, and converting from the weak US dollar, the deal would have to be very sweet to have any real chance of being a good investment, don't ya think?

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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gringoloid says on Apr 9, 2008, 11:05:

that's right c-dawg..................it's the currency exchange too...............i just don't see bogota as a good deal in terms of price. medellin is much, much better; and probably other places in colombia too.

mde, in a very broad sense, appears to be about 30%less in comparable prices.

Rubito..............i'm going to check out these estrato 4 places and let you know what i find out.............another words, are there a lot of foreclosures there?

Who are the three blind men?

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gringoloid says on Apr 9, 2008, 11:09:

poco,,,,that is another way of looking at the situation. i've always been told that foreclosing on someone is the absolute worst. that you or the bank lose a lot of money when foreclosing on them.

i had a situation recently where it took 2 months to get the people out, even with the police.

Who are the three blind men?

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gringoloid says on Apr 9, 2008, 11:11:

Just as an update on my OP, my friend told me this morning that buying foreclosed properties is 'a skill that you have to learn'. I would have to spend a lot of time acquiring know how before i would buy anything.

alright, i told him i'm ready to begin my internship.

Who are the three blind men?

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poco says on Apr 9, 2008, 11:48:

Quote: Just as an update on my OP, my friend told me this morning that buying foreclosed properties is 'a skill that you have to learn'. I would have to spend a lot of time acquiring know how before i would buy anything.

alright, i told him i'm ready to begin my internship.

--------------------
That's what you need to do. Start with one purchase and see how it really works. That's what I've done but in a rural area and there will never be much of a profit w/o inventory. However, there is a significant return for building, renting. You've GOT to understand costs if you want a return.

I'd say after a few years and a few flips I'm pretty knowledable. You should make a profit, even a small one but there is a cost for this education of time and possibably money.

If you don't do it,,,hands on,,, you'll NEVER learn.

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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gringoloid says on Apr 9, 2008, 11:56:

thanks for the encouragement, poco

lot of people brought some interesting points out on liens, etc....

i wonder too about 'doing repairs' on the place. sometimes just putting in a new kitchen faucet can do wonders. painting would be another obvious add-on, but what is the limit?

while you're trying to sell this repo, is it wise to put in a renter? i dunno

Who are the three blind men?

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poco says on Apr 9, 2008, 12:17:

Quote: but what is the limit?

This is the most important part of the equation. You absolutely need to understand the future anticipated sales price. I mean FOR SURE and in your case that would include financing and associated closing costs.

Understand price is difficult but once established,, you've got a goal. Don’t underestimate the total price of fixup.

So,, what is the limit? Spending more than your anticipated sales price minus your profit,, that's the limit and a YOU must constantly monitor progress and costs.

There might be a point where you decide to spend 5% more pesos on fixup to increase the sales price at least that amount or a faster sale. Problem is,, you’ve GOT TO KNOW,, guessing / believing in someone else results in problems.

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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NataliaV says on Apr 9, 2008, 12:24:

gringoloid, why not keep a few to rent out instead of flipping? I assume you would be paying cash for the foreclosures? If you pay cash and rent them for awhile you could build up a pretty nice monthly cash flow I would assume. Maybe I'm wrong?

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poco says on Apr 9, 2008, 12:38:

Quote: So unless you're living in it yourself (even then perhaps not such a good idea) if you're gonna flip, you don't rent.

Haven't looked at real estate in large cities but I'd say this is true,, based on what I see posted. Negative cash flow,, a sure killer.

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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NataliaV says on Apr 9, 2008, 12:46:

Not to get off subject about Bogota, but what if say you bought (2) 3 unit homes in Cali and lived in one of the apartments and rented out the others. And paid cash for it. Do you think you could live off the rent from the others in Cali of course as I'm sure prices vary greatly from city to city?

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robi666 says on Apr 9, 2008, 12:57:

I bought my apartment from Conavi (now Bancolombia), three years ago. It was not an auction.
Apartment sold by banks this way are foreclosure, and can be around 10% down the market price.
They go sold extremely fast once they are in the list.

Here you have a link... do not tell it to too many gringos...
http://www.grupobancolombia.com/tiendaInmueble/
What you see in the list will be discounted by 7%.

One problem with the bank is that the full value of the sale will be declared and your taxes and predial will follow it.

Auction apartment are not sold by banks. They are sold by tribunal, when the owner and whoever is involved in his debt, do not agree on a price. Good properties hardly get to that point.

Then, you have to understand that, if a property is a bargain, you'll hardly get to buy it. It is like a mafia, and you have to talk to the right people to win an auction at a good price.

Bottom line, none will let you gain money easily. Buying from a bank can be good if you know how to judge a property.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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gringoloid says on Apr 9, 2008, 13:29:

poco.......that's right............and i think my biggest problem initially is bringing my experience and culture from the united states and trying to apply it to colombia.

i'm sure i would have to relearn everything.

case in point: my girlfriend has been trying to sell her farm in anolaima for quite some time. many people look at it, but no offers whatsoever. honestly, i wouldn't buy this place myself as it is hard to get to as well as being on the side of a steep mountain.

i have ideas............but then again i'm thinking about my u.s. culture and that may not apply here.

Who are the three blind men?

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gringoloid says on Apr 9, 2008, 13:34:

nataliav.................you have a good point and that was my original intention. after having a restaurant......which was a total disaster.................i thought there would be less aggravation with rentals and this is still my main option.

But I have friends who are making a killing and have been making a killing flipping apartments. you could make more money in one deal than in collecting rents for years.

the recent strong/absurd runup in real estate here in BTA has helped them, of course.

Who are the three blind men?

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gringoloid says on Apr 9, 2008, 13:42:

robi........................thanks for that link............so it is true, there are apartments starting at 7 or 8 grand.

i'm not sure if i would choose the suburb of soacha though.

Who are the three blind men?

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gringoloid says on Apr 9, 2008, 13:45:

rubito................granted, what you say is true. but isn't having rentals easier than owning a service business or restaurant, etc.?

Who are the three blind men?

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lpdiver says on Apr 9, 2008, 13:47:

Gringoloid...how much does she want for the finca? Do you have photo's and details?

t

"cook some rice!"

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gringoloid says on Apr 9, 2008, 13:51:

Rubito.............i can't recall when you were here for a visit.....was it last august?

I'm telling you, .......things have changed since then. Everything, overall, is much higher now.

Who are the three blind men?

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christobeldawg says on Apr 9, 2008, 21:54:

rbito that is getting a little bit out of my areas of even any semblance of expertise.

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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christobeldawg says on Apr 9, 2008, 22:01:

if we end up making our fortune off Colombian pigs and cows, I will definitely promise to eat my hat. ya gotta be kiddin.

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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gringoloid says on Apr 9, 2008, 22:04:

lpdiver..............this farm is an old place............but really secluded and a fantastic view.

you know, you gave me a good idea...........................next week i'll take some pictures and post them on pbh. i didn't think there would be any interest.

the asking price is ten grand.

Who are the three blind men?

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christobeldawg says on Apr 9, 2008, 22:19:

well that sounds easier than milking cows for a living, or for that matter, managing rental apartments. I've done some of that, and milking cows would most likely be an improvement.

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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gringoloid says on Apr 9, 2008, 22:23:

Rubito, I have a farm......animals included, for sale.

Who are the three blind men?

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christobeldawg says on Apr 9, 2008, 22:25:

I agree with you Rubito, flipping real estate should never include rentals as a backup plan, as you just illustrated. They either flip, or we improve and hold, in my thinking. Buy at a deep enough discount, in a decent area, and ya gotta good chance of at least making something, or at least of not losing too much.

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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webmanco says on Apr 9, 2008, 22:31:

Old MacDonald had a farm, E I E I O And on that farm he had some chicks, E I E I O With a chick chick here and a chick chick there Here a chick chick there a chick chick , everywhere a chick chick Old MacDonald had a farm, E I E I O

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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Frank Rizzo says on Apr 9, 2008, 23:09:

Depending on what you are wanting to buy....i've got a way to find deep discount places before forclosure that works well....just takes alot of running around....and you gotta treat it like you would in the states....offer and walk away over and over and over.....but eventually you can snap up at your price......did it 2 times.....like a charm...

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poco says on Apr 10, 2008, 01:04:

I might add,, Colombians where I live have strange ideas.

Houses can be haunted and no one will ever purchase it for anything close to its value.

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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lpdiver says on Apr 10, 2008, 03:29:

gringoloid...how many hectares is the farm. Is it in production?

t

"cook some rice!"

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