For what kind of people is Colombia a good place to live in?

Lostgringo says on Mar 19, 2005, 07:18:

Retiring in Colombia I have a girlfriend in Bogota. She will not come and live in Canada. She is well educated and has a good job working for the government. She will not leave her mother in Bogota. And, her mother will not leave Bogota because of her family. So I want to marry my Colombian lady I must live in Bogota for most of the year. I am 60 years old and my girlfrien is 47 years old. I am currently teaching myself Spanish and my girlfriend is learning English. I am getting tired of the cold winters here in Canada so I do not mind relocating. I have two questions to ask. First, will I be able to survive on a pension of $1,500 a month (Canadian) in Bogota? Second, will it be difficult for me to adapt to the Colombian lifestyle. I very simple needs. I like a few beers now and then and I like smoking cigars. I would like to buy or rent a condo with a balcony on it in a safe district. My girlfriend works and lives near the downtown area of Bogota. Comments are greatly appreciated.
Gracias

Your Home Away from Home www.welovebogota.com and www.apartmentinbogota.com "Luxury apartments and rooms Cheap" Only 2 blocks from the American Embassy! 24/7 hour security.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Mar 19, 2005, 07:22:

Franko You could certainly live better on $1500 canadian in Colombia than in Canada, but you're hardly going to be living like a rock star. Lots of Colombians live nice lives on a lot less.

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utopiacowboy says on Mar 19, 2005, 09:00:

I would say that for anyone who can't live with his head up his ass, it's going to be difficult. You have to ignore a lot of things which can be tough to do. Kids begging, homeless people, the endless violence etc. Even though there are a lot of wonderful things about it, I find it very depressing. It's one of those places like Northern Ireland or the Middle East where you know they're going to be killing each other forever.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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kerry says on Mar 19, 2005, 09:28:

bogota is To me Bogota is a city of bricks and pollution. They are building new blocks of flats every where. It is so modern, maybe that is okay for united stater. As I come from London I like there to be some character to the place. It is too much of a concrete jungle to me. Also cars dominate but again London is an old fashioned city with small roads. There are so many 6 to 10 lane roads, there are no emission controls and when you walk next to a road the pollution is 3 times worse. I have never known so much pollution come from traffic. Living outside Bogota or in a quiet place in Bogota (but you will have to search hard for a quiet place) It may be okay. Utopiancowboys points are not relevant to me because If you decide not to keep watching the news all the time and try chatting to the people and making friends with them it may be nice to live thier. Also they love yanks. Our western system is depressing utopian cowboy. I think you live in a nice little town. In London a few days ago a man was beheaded. There are constant stabbings, my brother was robbed at knife point a few months ago at an ATM. Teenagers are stabbing and robbing people, but the teen culture of aggresion makes london an increasingly difficult pace to live and the general aggresion of people makes you feel nervous. I know this must be similar to united states big cities. In Colombian people are not anti social and aggresive. This form of insanity does not exist in Colombia. PEople are only aggresive for a reason. Bogota felt safer to me than London because I knew that no one would make trouble for me unless there wanted to rob me or some thing. There are pros and cons. IF I were oyu I would say that you want to try living in Bogota for 2 months and see what you think

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poco says on Mar 19, 2005, 09:35:

No Problem if you Like laying around in your hammock, drinking 40 cent a bottle beer “fetched” by your insignificant other, while watching Fox News on cable and demand absolute silence while watching Archie Bunker reruns with English subtitles on TV. Need to stay out of the snow, low bills, and sick of hearing all those weirdo’s talk French? Then pack up your bug zapper because you’ll need the entertainment to survive on $1,500.00 per month Canadian.

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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Gomezman5 says on Mar 19, 2005, 11:11:

Now Copete......I don't understanding..... After reading your posts the last few days, I would have thought that not only would you be living in Colombia, I would think that you would have a position in the ministry of tourism--if there is such a thing. If there isn't you ought to form one.

Ok, you wanted to keep it positive, so I will. Colombia is a great place to live in if you are Colombian. If not, and you look like a Gringo......well......????? Ok, if you are looking at the "Quality of Life" issue that everyone like to talk about here, then Gringo, Colombian, or whatever, Colombia is a beautiful country with many wonderful people. There are not 9 million restrictions like the states have. So it's easier to do things without having to deal with the government. But speaking of the Government, the Colombian government is.........ok......once again said I would at least try to keep it positive. But let me say this, there are things that the government that it should regulate and enforce (like speed limits--which are virtually hardly ever enforce) and there other things that should be made simpler, but are made more complicated than life itself. Just lose your cedula, and you will see just how, pardon me, incompetent the government is at replacing a stupid national ID card. Here in Illinois, if you lose your state ID, or drivers license, you get a brand new one..just like the old one in less than a half an hour. In Colombia, the process is ridiculously complicated and long.

The issue for a gringo or gringo looking person is security, and security and security. I know the Fantasy Folks here will tell you all is safe and secure for the gringos. Oh yes, and he Cubs and White Sox will be playing each other in the World Series this year.

So if you are a gringo, go visit and tour and if you're a male, you are sure to find your dreamy looking tour guide. But a visitor does not establish the sense of permanency that a person has when they move there, and therefore he/she will not be in as dangerous position he would be in if he were living there.

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morphus says on Mar 19, 2005, 11:45:

security stop the scare tactics! gringos don't get kidnapped in the cities. there are plenty of rich Colombians that have to worry more about security. i'm sure the guerillas would love to get a hold of them and torture them before killing them yet they go about their merry ways with no problem. they drive around in new cars and their pockets are fat with wads of peso bills. the only people that should stay away from Colombia are the ones with some kind of obsessive-complulsive disorder about safety.

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platano says on Mar 19, 2005, 12:12:

Gringos don't get kidnapped in cities? NOT! I'm sorry but that is just not true. Many gringos have been kidnapped and some of the kidnappings happened in cities.

You may remember the whole city council of Cali being kidnapped in the middle of the afternoon in downtown Cali. If you were a gringo strolling around the city....????

You may remember La Maria, a catholic church in Cali, where over 100 worshipers were kidnapped during Sunday morning mass. If you were a gringo attending Sunday morning services...????

All you have to do to be kidnapped is to be in a city, in a movie theatre, in a church service, or walking along downtown minding your own business. In my case I was leaving my residence in a city of millions of people. Two guys who claimed to be anti-narcotics police showed badges and said I should go with them. I asked for more identification. The identification they showed me was of the 9mm variety. I was forced into my jeep. The taxi behind us had four guerrillas, all with machine guns. So you can be kidnapped just walking out of your house to go shopping in SuperLey or Carrulla or Exito.

This myth that the cities are "safe" is just that... a myth.

On the other hand, as I've posted elsewhere here, a kidnapping is just another life experience. It could end in your death but in many cases it doesn't. I know lots of Colombians who have been kidnapped and are still around to tell their story. I'm telling you mine. So this fear of kidnapping is a bit irrational on two accounts: it is statistically very low (out of 40 million plus how many have been kidnapped?) and it is not an automatic death sentence. It can be experienced as another (perhaps the final, perhaps not) life adventure.

So, to get back to the topic of this thread. The kind of person who would do well living in Colombia is someone with a sense of adventure, patience of Job, flexibility, and a good sense of humor. You should also have made peace with the universe and be prepared to move on....

And, yes, I still love Colombia. And, no, I don't think anyone should stay away or be obsessed by safety issues. Just be prepared to relax and go with whatever happens. And most of what happens in Colombia, especially for gringos who have economic solvency, is absolutely delicious!!!!

Plátano

plátano

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Gomezman5 says on Mar 19, 2005, 12:14:

Morphus...are you joing the Fantasy Folks too? Bogota 2/5/05

Colombian woman and American husband happily living together in Chicago, decide to visit mother and Father in Bogota on 2/5/05. They live in SantaAna. A secure block. On night 3, husband takes a walk at 7:30 PM after dinner in home. He never comes back. Wife and mother-in-law get a phone call 4 hours later from a person asking for a ransom. Not much, but $$ nevertheless. A day later, they paid and he was returned

His story:

He was walking when a car pulled up with three men who had asked him for his identification - passport in particular. How did they knew he was a foreigner??? (they asked for passport) They said they wanted to check to see if he was legally entitled to be in Colombia. They took him in the car ( he had no choice) and they took him for about a 20 minute ride where he was held until the time the wife could pay for his release.

And you say gringos don't get kidnapped....I know, you thing I am lieing. I care. And you Morphus are another dreamer, change pills will you???? Maybe you should quit the generics and go back to the name brand ones.....

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morphus says on Mar 19, 2005, 12:48:

thats just some guy that got picked up by banditos. they were'nt the real deal. you have to be prepared to kick ass in Colombia. the criminals don't differentiate between gringos, Latinos or Colombians. if they get the oppurtunity they will take anybody. so if you are going to post warnings then warn EVERYBODY. i don't like your racist tone Gomey.

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vladimiro says on Mar 19, 2005, 14:10:

What type of people should move to Colombia? Some people adapt more easily than others to living in another country. Some feel more comfortable in their home country, while others are just too patriotic to admit that they might like another country more than thier own:) I have relatives that moved to the US but returned home after a few years while others preferred to stay in the US. Anyone that feels comfortable living in another country would like COlombia in my opinion.

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Gomezman5 says on Mar 19, 2005, 14:47:

Racist tone??? Morphus Racist tone? Ok....I was born in Colombia. My last name is Gomez. (one of many in my family and in the world for that matter) And,I tell the story of a gringo who was kidnapped a few blocks from his inlaw's house.....so that makes me a racist....Ok. I am a racist. Are you sure you don't need to change drugs?????

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ARMacleod says on Mar 19, 2005, 14:55:

Being of unsound mind and dubious disposition, I cannot be held legally liable for any indiscretions."¡El diablo me hizo hacerlo!" But don't worry, be happy.

The brain is like a parachute, it only functions correctly when it is open. Pax vobiscum.

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ARMacleod says on Mar 19, 2005, 15:26:

Safe? There is no place in the world that is good to live in. But some are better than others.

Being of unsound mind and dubious disposition, I cannot be held legally liable for any indiscretions."¡El diablo me hizo hacerlo!" But don't worry, be happy.

The brain is like a parachute, it only functions correctly when it is open. Pax vobiscum.

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Antonio_4 says on Mar 19, 2005, 16:56:

Copete I think it depends on the life you're searching for. As i will speak for my own. Im Portuguese, but born and raised in Holland with just enough bread to live, and ive been in Portugal plenty of times, more than enough times to discover and experience the big difference of life between Holland and Portugal.
And i already made the choice for myself about my future, it was quite easy too. I asked myself: "Should i stay in Holland, or should i move to another country, where i can fit my life in, the way im looking for?"
I decide to leave. The life im searching for, cant be lived in the atmosphere of a country like Holland. Im gone in a few years... with for example Portugal, Colombia, Brazil, New Zealand all good options.
People always ask me why, why would you leave a country like Holland, to move to a less developed country like Portugal for example?
Well, You see, i had a tough youth, but its funny now that im actually really happy that i went thru those difficult periods, because it makes you realize what life actually is.
A lot of people tend to forget the name of this site: Poor, but Happy!
And thats what i experienced in Portugal for example, thats also how i see the most Colombians live their lives too.
I have friends in Lisbon, who live in a house that you cant even call a house. Half the family still lives there (7 people). The "livingroom" is like 2 by 3 meters, they sleep between cockroaches, dont have enough food to eat, but yet theyre happier than me. They showed me, that you can be happy, while you may have nothing at all.
And with this in mind, i can tell you that the Colombian atmosphere would be a good place for me to live in, despite the dangers that im aware of. And i know a lot of people will share this point with me.

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Copete says on Mar 19, 2005, 18:22:

The important vs. the not-so-important Antonio_4, the poor-but-happy philosophy you point out is quite an important one. Some people, especially in "developed" countries, like living under the overly simplistic philosophy of "it's better to be rich than poor." Things are not so simple obviously; I for one don't really envy the life of Bill Gates and corporate executives. Money and material goods in general make you lose so much perspective on what's essential and what's not. In that sense, Colombia for me is my "ground connection." One of my favorite quotes was written by St. Augustine many centuries ago and it still rings so true: "A happier person is not one who owns the most, but one who needs the least." The conclusion for me is that Colombia is a good country for those who don't base their happiness on the posession of material goods.

The question of safety is always there, too. But in a world as unpredictable as today's, I think its importance is way overblown. Anyone can be killed or permanently injured any day, anywhere; in any place, there are way too many things over which you don't have any control. Not even at home, as a staggering percentage of accidents happen to people while they are at home. To me, what's important is to have made the most out of your life up to that point. Some people don't get to enjoy it at much as they should by being overly concerned about their safety, whatever that means. This doesn't mean you shouldn't take precautions, which are always good, as long as your life doesn't revolve around them. As for the environment, while I agree that Colombia is overall not the safest of environments, at least for me the additional ounce of safety doesn't nearly make up for so many other things I would have to give up. This is just a personal opinion, but which is based on statistics by which for example, my overall chances of getting kidnapped in Colombia are 1/4 those of my getting killed in a car crash in the USA. I know other people who think differently, though. I have met Colombians who would like to live abroad because, in their words, their "tranquilidad" is the most important thing for them. And I don't argue with them over it, simply because different people have different priorities. So yes, if you're so selfish and near-sighted that your "tranquilidad" beats any other consideration, then Colombia is not the place for you.

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ws244 says on Mar 19, 2005, 18:30:

living I have worked in moscow, jeddah, saudi arabia, and feel Bogota is safer than those places. Bogota has good and bad sections as any city. After over 4 years going there I have never had any problem.
Look at the bright side , if you were ever in the army, when it is your time, it is your time, whether in your car, crossing the street, or in colombia. If you can afford to retire there great, I plan on doing just that myself.

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Antonio_4 says on Mar 19, 2005, 19:18:

Exactly Copete!!! I cant agree with you more on this, Copete.

Beautifull quote you posted: "A HAPPIER PERSON IS NOT ONE WHO OWNS THE MOST, BUT ONE WHO NEEDS THE LEAST."

I want to add that most of the time people think about money when one mentions the word poor. It doesnt sound right to me sometimes. Ive met true rich people on this planet. All people who earned my respect by living the life as it should be, while having the least they needed.
Now we always argue about the safety here. Some say its safe, some say its the most dangerous place in the world. The reason nobody will ever agree here, is because every person desires another level of safety and experience their meaning of safety differently. You can live in the safest place on this planet and still feel unsafe, or live in the most dangerous city and still feel safe.

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Lionheart says on Mar 19, 2005, 19:55:

safe but miserable Let me twist three quotes from above to my personal versions:

You can live in the safest place on this planet and still feel miserable, or live in the most dangerous place and feel happy.

I decided to leave. The life I'm searching for can't be lived in the atmosphere of a country like Germany or USA. I'm gone as soon as possible ... for example Colombia, Chile, and New Zealand are all good options.

Some people adapt more easily than others to living in another country. Some feel more comfortable in their home country, while others are just too narrow-minded to consider that they might like another country more than their own.

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platano says on Mar 19, 2005, 20:06:

Lionheart, I decided to leave too! I lived in the United States. Muy tranquilo.... I almost died there... of boredom! One day in New Jersey I came out of my apartment to go to work and did not see my car. It was then that I decided to go back to Colombia. Because in Colombia what happened to my car could never happen, it is impossible that what happened to my car in New Jersey could happen in Colombia. You see, my car was not stolen or vandalized... my car was not visible at all because it was covered by snow drifts! This would be impossible in Colombia.

Everyone weighs their own situation, makes their own choices and lives with the consequences. The consequences of my decision meant salsa a la lata, salpicón, external warmth, and another kind of internal warmth and openness that is not easily found in countries like USA or Germany.

The only time I went to Germany I was appalled by the regimentation of life. Of course, a German visiting me in Colombia once said Colombia was violating her human rights. Oh, how so, I inquired. She said there were no times posted for when the buses arrived and left at the bus stops, so how was she to know if the bus would pick her up at 2:04 pm or 2:07 pm? People evidently have a right to know these things in Germany!

I told her to chill out, the bus would be there when it got there.

Plátano, happier in tropical climes

plátano

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Lionheart says on Mar 19, 2005, 20:34:

USA vs. Germany vs. Colombia In my job I have a lot to do with people from all countries/cultures. My work was either in Germany or in the USA. When managers visited each other I was common manager to be with them since I am bilingual techie. During the first meeting I usually had to explain the main difference between the two cultures:

In the USA everything is allowed unless it is prohibited by a law (dream on) - in Germany all is prohibited unless it is permitted by laws (describing in minute detail how so).

In Colombia? Who gives a flying f**k ... chill out!

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Antonio_4 says on Mar 20, 2005, 08:40:

As for the example of that German lady platano mentioned in his post. The importance of time for people is also a reason to decide if Colombia is the place to be. I mentioned the difference of lifestyle between Portugal and Holland before. If you add the importance of time... In Portugal (and Colombia has this too..) time actually stops to have lunch. People quit work for a lunch break. Shops, banks, offices are closed between 13:00 and 15:00 and the fullest places during that time are the restaurants and bars. You find managers, construction site workers, bank workers, cleaners all lined up, enjoying their coffee and snack for lunch. This is something i never saw, and never will see in Holland or any other western country.

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Skippy says on Mar 20, 2005, 09:45:

Colombia is not.... the end all and be all. I know I will get blasted for this, but I am living in Colombia right now and I love it here. I am interested in living in some other countries though. I would love to live in Argentina for some time as well as Uraguay. Brazil is a fantastic place. I have to laugh when I seee people say that Medellin is the most beautiful city on earth. I think it's a nice city and interesting for a year or so and then after that it gets kind of old. I am loving it now, but I am already making plans to travel to another country. This is just my opinion. Okay, let the personel attacks begin. See you in six months.

Yup

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