For true colombians

gabolicious says on Jan 19, 2008, 09:31:

Now I know why the world has a wrong concept of what the FARC is... it is only a breaking news in Colombia while in other countries it is only un ejercito de campesinos... we need to raise our voice to let them know that the FARC are not what they think

"The new land of opportunities: Colombia!" ----- Mr Miguel_Clavo on PBH

MitchAlvarez says on Jan 19, 2008, 09:33:

i agree

Tengale miedo a una huelga de mujeres o a una escacez de aguardiente. :)

Catfish35 says on Jan 19, 2008, 09:53:

I would have to agree with you all. For the life of me I do know why people like Oliver Stone can travel to Colombia and leave saying the Farc is some mere disgruntled politico grupo. It makes make extreme lite of what and who they have become since their creation. Once again, I must state that when a cause becomes violent and does the things that FARC has done they lose whatever legitimacy and momentum that they could have had. The basis of my opinion is compared to say, the Sicilian Mafia. The Mafia when created had a cause, the cause was actually "Robinhood" in nature.
However over the years The Mafia no longer serve this purpose. It is merely a band of criminals that are motivated by greed and desperation. I know that this comparison has many differences, but the basis of my point is there. What changed the Mafia into being hated by most people in the world are "The People" not the judicial system. One of the turning points in their history is when they no longer targeted people just involved in mafia business. They kidnapped and chopped up a small girl and then blew up a large section of highway in Carini. This caused the tide of the people to begin protesting against them in large numbers and ratting them out and turning their backs and letting the world hear them! So yes, Colombia, your problem is at hand. It is for this wonderful country to band together and stand against what you all know is truly wrong. God knows I support you !

"I refuse to have a battle of intelligence with an unarmed person, therefore I will just speak as the simpleton you have come to love"

bufalo says on Jan 19, 2008, 10:04:

"More than saying that colombia has beautiful landscapes (and we know it is true) we still have plenty of things to fight for."

Finally someone said something worthwhile. On this subject I always here:

- beautiful women
- beautiful landscapes
- beautiful culture

blah,blah, blah - what country doesn't have these (allthough the uruguayans weren't much to look at).

People say that "X" country has a "rich cultural heritage". What country doesn't? Or the ridiculous "it has a lot of history" - show me a place on earth that has NO history.

That's why I don't like most of the dopey travel show hosts.

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

timeforachangeofscenery says on Jan 19, 2008, 10:32:

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

Desi1 (Moderator) says on Jan 19, 2008, 10:42:

"Now I know why the world has a wrong concept of what the FARC is... it is only a breaking news in Colombia while in other countries it is only un ejercito de campesinos... we need to raise our voice to let them know that the FARC are not what they think" (gabolicious)

I appreciate the sentiment that brings forth a statement like that but it is not entirely accurate, sorry to burst that bubble.

I agree that AS A WHOLE Europeans have probably a very sketchy idea of what the Colombian guerrilla is all about, but people here are not naive or ignorant. I was following very closely the reporting about the release of Clarita and Consuelo, Chavez propaganda circus etc. in the Swedish media and comparing it to what I know about Colombian history, society etc and what the US. press and the Colombian newspaper wrote and I have to admit that "Dagens Nyheter" (the largest daily in Sweden) reported both nuanced and accurately. There was a lengthy analysis of the FARC written by their South American correspondent, Erik de la Reguera, stationed in Buenos Aires and what he wrote was basically what we all have been saying here. They were'nt calling the FARCs a "peasant army", but rather a former peasant uprising with a political agenda that has lost it's course and turned into a criminal organization.

gabolicious says on Jan 19, 2008, 10:56:

No, I never said that europeans are naive or ignorant... I am just saying media "sometimes" say "los rehenes secuestrados por las FARC han sido liberados... y pasando a otro orden de noticias..."

I never said that people are naive or ignorant... I have to praise that there has been a lengthy analysis of the FARC... hope some other correspondents follow the same example

"The new land of opportunities: Colombia!" ----- Mr Miguel_Clavo on PBH

Desi1 (Moderator) says on Jan 19, 2008, 11:21:

No, you didn't say it, but there are so many others who have been saying it for such a long time that I guess I've become overly sensitive about the issue. Distanced both geographically and culturally from the Colombian scenario of armed conflict people read the news and make their own interpretations. Sometimes the distance is a good thing; it makes it possible to look at these things dispassionately and objectively.

gabolicious says on Jan 19, 2008, 11:46:

"People say that "X" country has a "rich cultural heritage". What country doesn't? Or the ridiculous "it has a lot of history" - show me a place on earth that has NO history." bufalo... I definately agree with you

"The new land of opportunities: Colombia!" ----- Mr Miguel_Clavo on PBH

billyb says on Jan 19, 2008, 20:41:

"There was a lengthy analysis of the FARC written by their South American correspondent, Erik de la Reguera, stationed in Buenos Aires "

In Buenos Aires? Well I guess that is practically in Colombia, I mean it's ONLY a few thousand miles away from the subject he's writing about.

aztec says on Jan 20, 2008, 04:07:

Desi I am of the opinion the European public are similar to the U.S. public. Ninety per cent of them could not find Colombia on the map.

cassini77 says on Jan 20, 2008, 06:05:

true colombians?
falsos positivos?

aztec says on Jan 20, 2008, 08:51:

falsos positivos? Wow the man has a background in Statistics!

robi666 says on Jan 20, 2008, 09:09:

"I defend you Country from the absurd comments many americans make about Colombia."

Colombians are surely glad that they have got a defender like you. They needed it.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

cassini77 says on Jan 20, 2008, 10:19:

Sure, with Dogman Colombia is saved.

robi666 says on Jan 20, 2008, 16:07:

What happened to mr. Racist - Dogman?

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

MaFe says on Jan 20, 2008, 20:05:

When I lived in Germany, I traveled most of Europe and believe me once I would tell Europeans I was Colombian, I would end up defending Colombia, and giving them a crash course of reality...living in the U.S., I feel that I had to defend myself more in Europe....
whatever the case I have always defended my beautiful Colombia...

"No comment" is a splendid expression. I am using it again and again." -Winston Churchill

Colombiche says on Jan 20, 2008, 20:51:

I have heard comments in every single country I have visisted. My german colleagues did crack a few cocaine jokes.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

msaucey says on Jan 20, 2008, 20:56:

So, is everyone participating the No Mas FARC demonstration in their respective cities....

I'm working on a head count of my colombian community to start working on t-shirts....

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

Colombiche says on Jan 20, 2008, 21:29:

No mas FARC info around the globe:

PUNTOS DE ENCUENTRO INTERNACIONALES
----CENTRO Y SUR AMERICA-----------

BUENOS AIRES, ARGENTINA
Obelisco, Avenida 9 de Julio. 3:00 p.m. (Hora local Buenos Aires)
Contacto: Laura Puerta
nomasfarcbuenosaires at gmail.com


CIUDAD DE GUATEMALA, GUATEMALA
Por confirmar Sitio.
Contacto: Sergio Ramírez
nomasfarcguatemala at gmail.com



SAO PAULO, BRASIL
Por confirmar Sitio.
Contacto: nomasfarcsaopaulo at gmail.com



PUNTA CANA, REP. DOMINICANA
Por confirmar Sitio.
Contacto: Maria Catalina Serna
nomasfarcpuntacana at gmail.com



MEXICO, D.F.
Por confirmar Sitio.
Contacto: Jorge Hernández
nomasfarcmexicodf at gmail.com



----NORTEAMERICA-------------------
NEW YORK CITY
Al frente del edificio de las Naciones Unidas. 12:00 del medio día. (hora local NY)
Contacto: Jaime Caballero
nomasfarcnewyork at gmail.com

MIAMI, FLORIDA
Parqueadero del consulado de Colombia. 10:00 a.m. (Hora local MIA).
Contacto: Adelaida Vengoechea
nomasfarcmiami at gmail.com


WEST PALM BEACH, FLORIDA
Por confirmar Sitio.
Contacto: Carlos Grajales
nomasfarcwestpalmbeach at gmail.com


PHILADELPHIA, PA
Capilla de la Catedral. 12:00 del medio día. (Hora Local Phily)
Contacto: Maria Martinez

BOSTON, MA
Plaza de Government Center, en frente del City Hall.
12:00 del medio día. (Hora Local Boston)
Contacto: nomasfarcboston at gmail.com


CHICAGO, IL
Por confirmar sitio.
Contacto: Paola Susan
nomasfarcchicago at gmail.com


WASHINGTON, DC
Por confirmar sitio.
Contacto: Laura Busche
nomasfarcwashington at gmail.com


SAN FRANCISCO, CA
Por confirmar sitio.
Contacto: Marcela Junguito
nomasfarcsanfrancisco at gmail.com


HOUSTON, TEXAS
Por confirmar sitio.
Contacto: Javier Saavedra
nomasfarctexas at gmail.com


STATE COLLEGE, PENNSYLVANIA
Por confirmar sitio.
Contacto: Natalia Santamaria
nomasfarcstatecollege at gmail.com


IOWA
Por confirmar sitio.
Contacto: William A. Montoya
nomasfarciowa at gmail.com


CIUDADES NO LISTADAS DE ESTADOS UNIDOS
Favor contactar a : nomasfarcestadosunidos at gmail.com


TORONTO, CANADA
DUNDAS Square. Centro de Toronto. 11:00 a.m. (Hora local Toronto).
Contacto: Luis Orellano
nomasfarctoronto at gmail.com



CALGARY, ALBERTA - CANADA
Por confirmar sitio.
Contacto: Daniel Vargas
nomasfarccalgary at gmail.com


CIUDADES NO LISTADAS DE CANADA
Favor contactar a : nomasfarccanada at gmail.com

----EUROPA Y ASIA-----------
PARIS, FRANCIA
Place de l'Hotel de Ville. 75004 PARIS. 1:00 p.m. (Hora local París)
Metro: Hotel de Ville. Lineas de metro: 1 y 11.
Contactos: David Velilla. Heider Pardo (Bordeaux).
nomasfarcparis at gmail.com

MADRID, ESPAÑA
Plaza Mayor en Madrid.
Contacto: Camilo Garavito
nomasfarcmadrid at gmail.com


TORINO, ITALIA
Por confirmar Sitio.
Contacto: Jorge Tobón
nomasfarctorino at gmail.com



DÜSSELDORF, ALEMANIA
Por confirmar Sitio.
Contacto: Javier Amaya
nomasfarcdusseldorf at gmail.com

HAMBURGO, ALEMANIA
Por confirmar Sitio.
Contacto: Camilo Palacios
nomasfarchamburg at gmail.com

MUNICH, ALEMANIA
Marien Platz.
Contacto: Susana Vélez Haller
nomasfarcmunich at googlemail.com


LONDRES, INGLATERRA
Por confirmar sitio. 5:00 p.m. (hora local Londres)
Contacto: Carmelita Hurtado
nomasfarcengland at googlemail.com



LA HAYA, HOLANDA
Plein al Frente del Parlamento. 11:30 a.m. (Hora local Holanda)
Contacto: Alejo Bernal
nomasfarclahaya at gmail.com

COPENHAGEN, DINAMARCA
Contacto: nomasfarccopenhague at gmail.com



TEL-AVIV, ISRAEL
Por confirmar Sitio.
Contacto: Juan Valenzuela
nomasfarctelaviv at gmail.com

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

msaucey says on Jan 20, 2008, 21:34:

This looks like a short list.... I swear there was a Los Angeles e-mail address earlier today....

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

msaucey says on Jan 20, 2008, 21:34:

dup...

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

cassini77 says on Jan 21, 2008, 06:49:

Robi666 :"What happened to mr. Racist - Dogman?"

I do not know; he has been deleted by the moderators ?

robi666 says on Jan 21, 2008, 07:09:

Yes, but who knows why? He said too much because someone made him mad or what?

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

gato-bandido says on Jan 21, 2008, 07:16:

CB's list is way out of date. A more recent one is here:

http://www.colombiasoyyo.org/puntos.html

Still no Atlanta on there though.

Cerealkiller says on Jan 21, 2008, 13:37:

I am going to the one in my city for sure.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

Colombiche says on Jan 21, 2008, 14:19:

Thanks for updating my list gato bandido.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

webmanco says on Jan 21, 2008, 14:51:

BOGOTA, D.C.
CENTRO: Plaza de Bolívar (Punto principal).
Parque El Renacimiento.
NORTE: Plaza centro de negocios de la calle 116
Unicentro 127 con 15.
Calle 85 con 15.
SUR: Plaza central Soacha.
OCCIDENTE: Plazoleta Maloka, Salitre.
Plaza del Estadio Nemesio Camacho El Campín.
Plaza central Suba.
ORIENTE: Cll 72 con 7 - Centro Financiero

RUTAS

Cra 7 con desde la Calle 116 frente a Santabárbara hasta la Calle 72 con 7.
Cra 7 desde la Calle 72 hasta la Plaza de Bolívar.
Cra 30 desde el Campín hasta la Calle 26 con Carrera 30, Plaza de Catastro.
Av. Ciudad de Cali desde El Tintal hasta la Plaza de la Biblioteca del Tintal.
Avenida Suba desde la Av. Ciudad de cali, hasta el Parque Central de Suba.

Contactos: Pierre Onzaga, Rosa Parra, Cristina Lucena
nomasfarcbogota at gmail.com

But, I'm going to start making some assumptions here.... Which means I might actually end up making an ass out of myself ..........Thu 04 17, 2008 11:34 am

cassini77 says on Jan 23, 2008, 13:10:

A courageous attitude in front of the present hysteria ...

Lunes 21 de enero de 2008

La marcha del 4 de febrero
No sumar a la muerte
- La ex alcaldesa de Apartadó y miembro del Comité Ejecutivo Nacional del Polo, Gloria Cuartas, hace algunas reflexiones sobre la actual coyuntura política.


Estados Unidos está jugando y muy bien aliado con Uribe, para acelerar el conflicto Venezuela - Colombia. Cuando existe una sociedad indolente y un gobierno deslegitimado como el actúal donde el narcotrafico y el crimen van de la mano para imponer un modelo económico y un pensamiento único, cuando la violencia y la degradación de la guerra no reconoce limites, un tercero puede levantar su voz humanitaria y hacer lo que sea para proteger la vida y buscar salidas políticas y negociadas a los conflictos.

Seguramente ni el tiempo, ni el tono fue lo mejor de Chávez, pero quién se opone cuando Uribe grita y respalda la guerra contra otros por ejmplo Irak?. Pero lo que es cierto es que es necesario abrir un debate Nacional, Latinoanericano, Europeo , en fin en todo lugar, sobre el conflicto Colombiano y Chávez lo abrió.

Hasta el 2002 había guerrilla o insurgencia, había conflicto en Colombia. Después como parte del " acuerdo para refundar la patria" la política Paramilitar con su representante Uribe, era necesario imponer un lenguaje y contenidos nuevos, uso nuevo del suelo Colombiano, entregar las reservas naturales de recursos, desarrollar una legislación que diera seguridad a los " empresarios" externos y mientras se profundiza la relación para-narcotrafico -política-. Se hace mas fuerte la voz contra la realidad de un conflicto en Colombiano.

La realidad de la situación de hombres y mujeres retenidos por las FARC-EP, la realidad de las cárceles en Colombia, de la violencia en todas sus formas, nos obliga a buscar salidas. El plan Patriota, su agresiva militarización de la vida civil, la llamada "seguridad Democrática" y las violaciones a los Derechos humanos y la BASE DE MANTA que seguramente sera el otro regalito o intercambio de favores con el Gobierno de los Estados Unidos. Esta base fuera de profundizar la presencia militar de Estados Unidos, la violacion a la soberania nacional, es fuente del trafico sexual al que someten las mujeres, como ya lo vivió Ecuador. Es una forma de impedir los procesos revolucionarios en América Latina, es la mejor forma de penetrar a Venezuela, esto solo para citar tres cositas.....

No vamos las Mujeres y Hombres que tenemos compromiso con la paz, a la marcha del 4.

No vamos a sumar a la muerte

No vamos a legitimar las voces que ocultan un conflicto.

Necesitamos unirnos en el Acuerdo humaniatrio que permita buscar lugares de encuentro entre el Gobierno y la Insurgencia.

Estos últimos años lo demuestran: más dinero para la guerra y más dolor en la población civil de lado y lado.

Las imagenes de los secuestrados NO permite autorizar el rescate militar. Necesitamos a una sola voz pedir su libertad y romper la indiferencia trabajando por la salida política al conflicto.

Gracias a Chávez y Piedad Córdoba es posible el debate por la vida y la libertad que hoy se siente en Colombia y la comunidad Internacional no puede ser indiferente.

Gracias a los paises amigos que insisten en la vida.

Gloria Cuartas
Colectivo Otra Colombia es Posible.