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finding quiet in bogota

Something that I have had a lot of trouble with in my life is renting apartments. The problem is that I am quite sensitive to noise. Where I live is like my refuge. It doesn't need to be big. In fact I prefer small in some ways. A small bedroom (just enough to fit a bed and a computer desk), a small kitchen, and a bathroom is all that I need. I just need it to be quiet and private. And in many parts of the world that can be VERY difficult.

I have worked in residential construction a bit and I have some idea how difficult and expensive it is to build an apartment building where the apartments are genuinely acoustically isolated from each other. It is a real challenge. And it is very difficult for a potential tenant to tell the difference between a well designed building and a poorly designed one in terms of sound isolation without living there for a while first.

I can think of only 3 apartments that I have rented in my life where I wasn't disturbed by noise issues enough to feel forced to leave, often breaking a lease in the process. All 3 were in the US (in boston, florida, and california).

Because of this I generally prefer to live in a house. Although even then there are no guarantees of peace and quiet. Especially if there are many children in the neighborhood.

I spent about 2 months in bogota in a nice 2 bedroom apartment in Cedritos (an estrato 4 neighborhood that I really liked). The problem was that, even though the walls were built of concrete, there were various vents and holes that seemed to allow sound through between the apartments. The sound was so clear between the bathrooms for instance that I could hear the neighbors brushing their teeth. The dog in the other apartment would bark at me through the wall whenever I entered my own bathroom or bedroom. Almost like I was a stranger entering his space. That always startled and disturbed me.

And the kitchen didn't have windows but instead had open slats or louvers leading directly into the hallway. So if anyone had conversations in the hallway (which was mercifully infrequent) it was like they were in the same room. And so there is no real privacy except visual. I could hear their conversations quite clearly through the walls. Like they were in the room with me. Although at least my spanish isn't good enough to understand all of it. And when I was talking on the phone I was all too aware that my neighbors would be able to clearly hear every word I said. I know everyone is different in this regard and many people probably wouldn't care. But it bothers me. A lot.

I have lived in worse apartments in this respect. One apartment in montreal seemed to have the most paper thin walls I have ever experienced. If someone was sleeping in the bedroom in the next apartment you could hear them *breathing*. I had to escape that place in just a few weeks. I found myself actually wanting to whisper to people when I talked on the phone.

However, I know that quiet apartment buildings with good sound isolation between apartments *do* exist in the world. I have lived in some. But finding them can be very difficult. I would actually prefer to live in an apartment in Bogota if I could find a genuinely quiet building. I am concerned however that the same careless construction techniques that I noticed in my Cedritos apartment building would be prevalent everywhere else as well. Even in estrato 6 neighborhoods.

If I can't find a truly quiet apartment building in bogota then I will try to find a house, but I have seen how rare houses are in that city. Almost everyone lives in apartments. So finding a house for rent. In a quiet neighborhood. Within the metro bogota area. From a owner that will rent to a foreigner with no cosigner. And for a relatively affordable price (no more than 1,400,000 pesos). Etc... Is going to be a goose chase of the highest order. I already found what seemed like a perfect house. For the right price too. With no cosigner required. But I missed my chance. It was rented to someone else. Any practical advice to this situation would be appreciated. Or if anyone can relate to what I'm talking about.

By the way, I am not really bothered by city noises like traffic etc. It is really only people noises like children yelling, or music, or people talking etc. that I find disturbing. And the lack of privacy due to inadequate sound deadening between apartments is surely the thing that bothers me the most. For many noises I can wear a pair of earplugs for instance, but that won't help me as far as my neighbors hearing me. I really want to spend a year or two (at least) in Colombia, but I need my refuge from noise and other people. And of course I find myself afraid to invite people over :). So it is a very practical problem. Even if it is a purely psychological one. I guess I may be completely crazy, but I can't help it. It's just how I am. If I have a private space, no matter how small, then I am fine. Sometimes I wonder if I would be better off going completely in the opposite direction and just renting a room in someone else's apartment or rent with several roommates so that there would be absolutely no expectation of any privacy at all.

By pariahdog on Mar 16, 2008, 04:42 in Friendly Talkzone.

gringoloid says on Mar 16, 2008, 06:20:

i'm also very sensitive to noise and will be moving out my current address because of a dog, car alarms, school busses, and this one particularly loud bird by window.

i had no noise problems in rosales whatsoever and i'm either headed there or MDE.

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Lostgringo says on Mar 16, 2008, 08:13:

I think you should start looking for the Golden Fleece in Bogota as you may have a better chance of finding it. Not meaning to be funny paria, but some of the noise drove me up a wall too. And, what makes it worse is Colombians seem to LOVE noise. I asked a Colombia why there was so much noise, motor cycles, cars, fire crackers, loud music, dogs continually barking, car alarms and the list goes on. He said Colombians feel they are alive when there is noise. I don't know how true that is but I have never seen a Colombian shy away from noise. And many of the apartments you rent do have ventilation in them where you can hear your neighbors.

I went to home center and bought this huge roll of corregated card board and taped in the windows and vents. That did help somewhat. Dogs are never told to shut up in Colombia. I think it must be bad luck or something to tell a dog to shut up. LOL. Here in the Philippines in Baguio they eat the mutts. You don't see them running around here barking and stuff. I guess they don't want to draw attention to themselves. lol.

I don't think there is any way around it. Here is a suggestion. The former owner of bogota lodging.com is now renting a finca. Why not stay with him for a few weeks while you find something. I am sure he will either help you out himself or he will find someone to help you. He is a great guy. His name is Bob.

It may sound crazy but another trick is to glue or tape egg cartons to the windows. This is also great for accoustics in a room from what I have been told.

Anyway I feel for ya and hope you find something where you can have some peace and quite.

Your Home Away from Home:http://www.welovebogota.com http://www.apartmentinbogota.com "Luxury apartment and rooms Cheap" Only 2 blocks from the American Embassy!

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Lowell says on Mar 16, 2008, 08:24:

I found a place where the master bedroom is all the way in the back, Also none of the bedroom doors (solid wood) focus towards the front. The back of our house has undesireable to develope land. Hence no neighbors there. Both neighbors don't play music loud or cause nosie problems. Sometimes I here a neighbors rooster very faintly. Kind of living by farm. Only on rare occaions does the bass sounds penetrate enough to notice a bit. I sleep with a fans (celing and fan on stand) going so that also provides a bit of "white noise".

We live near the end of a dead end street = less noise. Up on a slope = no flooding worries.

Lots of trees and brush in barrio too.

Have had a few problems with a barking dog. However, Barrio pressure fixed that problem.

One has to do a lot of checking before choosing a place. Even then, there will be ups and downs.

Good Luck!

Alfred E. Newman. "What. Me Worry?"

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poco says on Mar 16, 2008, 09:10:

Quote: It may sound crazy but another trick is to glue or tape egg cartons to the windows. This is also great for accoustics in a room from what I have been told.

The only method to greatly reduce noise is the use of foam ear plugs. I keep a supply next to the bed, that is if I want to sleep late. Holiday fireworks are mandatory at 5 in the morning. I've ofter wondered who gets up that early,, no one,, they've been awake all night.

Remember, look for foam plugs in sealed plasic bag and NRR 33.
http://earplugstore.stores.yahoo.net/gennoisprot1.html

PS: Colombians don't know how to train dogs not to bark or anything else for that matter. A Colombian Dog Whisperer would be welcome.

Cheap on ebay,, get some before going to Colombia and while you're there you can get some sleep,, or you can just get some.
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=...

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

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Lostgringo says on Mar 16, 2008, 09:43:

those kind of ear plugs never worked for me. I always get mine in a drug store and they are kind of like wax and easy to use. Check this out regarding noise:

John Denver classic provokes Thai karaoke gun massacre
The Register ^ | 12 March 2008 | Lester Haines

Posted on 03/12/2008 6:45:24 AM PDT by Fractal Trader

A Thai rubber tapper who got rather tired of his neighbours' karaoke version of John Denver's Country Roads resolved the noise pollution problem by shooting eight of them dead, the Telegraph reports.

Weenus Chumkamnerd, 52, blew away a respected female doctor and seven of her guests at a rowdy singalong in the town of Hat Yai, close to the Malaysian border. He later recounted: "I warned these people about their noisy karaoke parties. I said if they carried on I would go down and shoot them. I had told them if I couldn’t talk sense into them I would come back and finish them off."

A neighbour confirmed that while the karaoke group "normally sang Thai pop and southern Thai ballads", they had a particular penchant for Country Roads.

As well as Dr Suthathip Thammachart, 36, the massacre also accounted for the life of Chumkamnerd's own brother-in-law, Boontip Desaro. Chumkamnerd rather touchingly got his son to whisk Desaro to hospital following the carnage, but he was already dead.

Your Home Away from Home:http://www.welovebogota.com http://www.apartmentinbogota.com "Luxury apartment and rooms Cheap" Only 2 blocks from the American Embassy!

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jonas says on Mar 16, 2008, 10:06:

Here´s a tip on a barrio which I believe must be the quietest in town and it´s beautiful, too.
Bosque Izquierdo which is located around Cll 27 and K3. Absolutely no traffic, the only noise are the birds, it´s actually hard to believe you are in the towncenter. Beautiful houses, little squares, most roads are cul-de-sacs. Also very quiet in that area is the upper part of La Macarena. And the best is that you have all the Restaurants and Cafes of the Macarena K4 in 1 minute walking distance. Also the mix of people in those barrios are very interesting with intellectuals, artists, media people etc.
If you are interested I have a friend that letting a flat at K2 with 28. PM me if you like.

What I have, I do not want to lose, but Where I am I do not want to stay, but those I love, I do not want to leave, but those I know I no longer want to see, but Where I die, I do not want to go;I want to stay where I have never been

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sloopskipper says on Mar 16, 2008, 10:35:

Lostgringo says on Sunday March 16th, 2008 8:13:
"Colombians seem to LOVE noise." "He said Colombians feel they are alive when there is noise."

I really think that is more of a Latin thing than being peculiar to Colombians.

Actually, during my 5 days in Cartagena, I thought the noise level was considerably lower than here in Panamá. At least the drivers did not have to blow the horn at every intersection if there was another vehicle anywhere in sight. And that is usually not a little toot, but more often a HONNNNNNNK! Pedestrians are warned in the same manner, which can be somewhat unnerving when they sneak up from behind.

From my experience, the champions for extraneous noise must be the Puerto Ricans. If you have never experienced what can come out one of these sound trucks, you can’t even imagine. To say that you can feel the noise in your chest would be a definite understatement. Earplugs are of no value when they are nearby.

I think this one has a seperate Diesel in the rear, just to run the generator for the amplifiers.

Photobucket

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poco says on Mar 16, 2008, 11:40:

Cars roaming the streets announcing sales, water system to be out of service, lottery winners etc. are an eveyday occurence.

What might be different is the rural areas portable music system used for parades or just general get togethers. This is ONE of about 6 different systems. Nice workmanship and a tribute to CD's anti-skip.

PS: That was an impressive sound truck.

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

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sloopskipper says on Mar 16, 2008, 11:55:

It is sitting in front of the Capital Building in San Juan, prior to a political rally, if I recall.

There are also many mounted on 4X4 pickups make them taller than they are long, and deadly too.

Is it possible they don't use them in Centro or Bocogrande, Cartagena? I don't remember hearing any, athough I was there less than a week.

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sloopskipper says on Mar 16, 2008, 12:27:

COOL, paco. Is that Colombia?

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poco says on Mar 16, 2008, 13:26:

Quote: COOL, paco. Is that Colombia?

Yes,, it is a medium sized Burro mount,, the Burro mounts get bigger.

This is a cart mount unit.

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

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sloopskipper says on Mar 16, 2008, 13:33:

That IS funny!

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Atrevido says on Mar 16, 2008, 17:51:

The quietest place in Bogotá is the botanical garden. Of course I don´t think you can sleep there.

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poco says on Mar 16, 2008, 18:31:

Horse drawn buggy sound system.

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

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Alma del Norte says on Mar 16, 2008, 19:06:

Howzabout the US Embassy basement? Bet that's well insulated, quiet.

La vida es una rutina

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pariahdog says on Mar 17, 2008, 01:28:

Thanks for all the replies and thanks for the tip, jonas. I sent you a pm. Those pics are funny. Latin America can definitely be loud. The only other Latin American country I have spent a lot of time in was Cuba (a total of about a year). For some reason, I didn't have so much trouble there with noise leaking between apartments. Maybe it's because the buildings in Havana are just so old that they built them to a different standard in those days. Or maybe it was because it was so easy to switch apartments after the first night or two if there was any noise problem at all. One of the few quiet apartments that I lived in (in Boston) was also very old.

I already have lots of earplugs. I am about to buy like 1000 or so more. My favorites are actually Howard Leight Max or Laser Lites. They are just so much more comfortable than the others I have tried and the less comfortable ones don't seem to work any better. I couldn't find any good ones in Bogota. I sleep with the NRR33 Max earplugs every night anyway. It looks like it is also possible to get a custom ear plug that is reusable. It doesn't really do any better than NRR33 but at least it saves a lot of space and may be even more comfortable than the expanding foamies.

Ear plugs don't really solve my problem though. Like I said the problem is more of a psychological nature. It bothers me that my neighbors can still hear me even when i can't hear them very well. Also I find when I wear my plugs for long periods of time during the day I can start to get a little worried/paranoid about what I'm *not* hearing. Hehe.

I guess I should have been born in Colombia. Then I am sure I wouldn't care about it. I was almost afraid to explain my problem (why I didn't like my nice apartment) to Colombians. Needless to say they didn't usually 'get it'. So I just said that there was too much noise in the building, which was a true but very incomplete answer. As my best friend often tells me. I'm like a little mouse, afraid of my own shadow or my own footsteps :). I guess I just want to be invisible or something.

Those insanely loud trucks that drive by with their loud advertisements bothered me, but not that much. And traffic noise is easily blocked by earplugs and not that big of a deal to me. My desire to tiptoe in my own apartment and whisper on the telephone (which I didn't actually do) was much more significant. I hated feeling like I needed to sneak around my own apartment. When I didn't walk quietly enough the neighbor's dog would bark viciously at me through the wall. Also try to imagine a meek, shy person dealing with all this.

And as for the basement idea, I like it, but I don't think they would let me. Maybe I could just buy a small lot and build myself an underground bunker with like a concrete trap door with leaves or grass and maybe one of those fake dog poop things glued to the top of it. I also wouldn't have to worry as much about my house being burglarized because they first would have to find it! That idea would really appeal to me actually, except that colombians would be certain that I was completely loco, and I don't really want to buy property in colombia. I don't really want to stay more than 2 or 3 years.

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badboy says on Mar 17, 2008, 09:51:

pariahdog: have you ever hear of "white noise'? get an electric fan that produces a good amount of blower noise and your problem will be solved. a honeywell super turbo works great for this purpose. can be bought in states for $12-$20. you can block the air from the fan in a number of ways or place it against the wall if the air circulating is too cool. i've drowned out significant outside noise with these. you get used to the hum and don't hear your neighbors.

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Lostgringo says on Mar 18, 2008, 17:11:

badboy that's a great idea. I am going to have to try that sometime.

Your Home Away from Home:http://www.welovebogota.com http://www.apartmentinbogota.com "Luxury apartment and rooms Cheap" Only 2 blocks from the American Embassy!

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adrimm says on Mar 18, 2008, 18:53:

To be honest I would suggest you try lots of buildings. Ask your Colombian friends if you can visit them and "listen" to see what it sounds like inside once all the neighbours are home. This might give you some idea of which buildings to target as you search for a new place to live.

My cousin lives in the heart of Chapinero, her apt on the 6th floor facing the inside of the block, and it's very quiet. We never heard things going on in other units and there are children and pets, and lots of hard-heels.. It's much quieter than the crap 70s construction of my condo back home. ditto w my uncle's place in Bucaramanga.

Traditional construction in Colombia can be very very solid & soundproof between units (*except* whatever comes in from outside via the single pane windows)... but I have read & heard that they are starting to use drywall more becuase it is faster to work with. I can personally vouch that even if they stagger party walls and do all the sound isolation, drywall & frame construction is rarely totally soundproof.

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