Finding a "professional" job in Colombia

Gator says on Nov 17, 2007, 22:10:

You and about eight million Colombian citizens. If you can't speak, read, and write in the Spanish language you really have no chance. I have lived here a long time and believe me that a LOT of Colombians who have better credentials who are driving taxis.

You best bet is to find employment before you come. Best place is with US companies who have branches in Colombia. To be blunt you really have nothing to offer.

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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christobeldawg says on Nov 17, 2007, 22:43:

and I might add, learn Spanish fluently over the next 2 years, stop being so humorless, and find an American company that needs someone in Colombia.

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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john_stark says on Nov 18, 2007, 05:10:

And the guy in that other thread never came back to tell us how he succeeded as a modern day gringo conquistador finding gold in the streets of Bogota. Maybe you'll be the first but somehow I doubt it.

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Chelesupercono says on Nov 18, 2007, 05:15:

Colombia is a place to play.......not for work!!!

never go to bed with someone crazier then you are, you will do it and you will regret it.......

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Lowell says on Nov 18, 2007, 06:25:

You post in PBH and you will have to accept whatever, from whoever. Have you even spent some time in Colombia? You need to know what it's like to not be a tourist. That's a totally different reality here. 10 years before I left the States I began my preparation. I scrimped and saved like never before. 1 year before leaving I stopped dating, Less baggage and ties.

Alfred E. Newman. "What. Me Worry?"

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Medellin Traveler says on Nov 18, 2007, 06:27:

"In Medellin, I helped a Colombian amigo get a book published. I went with him to a large printing company. I sat down with the president of the company in a very elegant office and discusssed how the book should be printed. To hiim, my input was very important. My friend and me pulled it off. We got his book published even though I was drunk through the whole meeting...LOL" - Morphus

And the name of that book would be?

"Colombia is a place to play.......not for work!!!"- Chelesupercono

I don't know about that. I wouldn't mind working to get some of that cocaine money, there's lots of it out there.

"Huevos Rancheros en Medellin, No Quiero Taco Bell." - www.medellintraveler.com

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rhydewithdis (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 18, 2007, 08:09:

Simon says on Nov 18, 2007, 12:49:

"In Medellin, I helped a Colombian amigo get a book published. "


Morphus,

What kind of book was this? 'How to Pick Up 15 year-old Virgins While Riding the Bus in Colombia'? Lol

"DON'T FOK WITH COLOMBIA!!"-----Simon

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pedro (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 18, 2007, 12:51:

Simon says on Nov 18, 2007, 13:05:

"That book would be a bestseller in Colombia."


Also with the 'Dateline NBC: To Catch a Predator' crowd.

"DON'T FOK WITH COLOMBIA!!"-----Simon

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dc321 says on Nov 18, 2007, 19:31:

With all due respect to everyone who has posted, with the exception of rhydewithdis, no one has provided any good advice except to say that it's not possible.

What are your situations? What work are you employed in? Are you all retired and living off of savings earned in the US? Do you have businesses? Are you all teaching English or what?

Have any posters who said that my search is impossible tried it and failed?

Thanks.

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christobeldawg says on Nov 18, 2007, 19:46:

I've looked into it a bit, but most of the advice I got was that it would be much easier to find investments or business in the US that either run on their own, for the most part, or that could be run from Colombia, by internet\phone, etc.. I am sure there are people living there who work for US based companies, such as in the oil industry, but I haven't looked into anything like that.

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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Wastelandlive says on Nov 19, 2007, 10:47:

Yep. I tried it and failed. And I'm a pretty resourceful guy.

I ended up working for myself as a charter captain, which was a great life, but nothing that would provide for a family and a future. While doing that, I spent a good two years networking, meeting people, sending out resumes, applying online... you name it.

Nothing. Not locally. Bogata may have been better... but I promise you that there is not a job in Cartagena that will pay a salary that you or I would accept. Only entrepreneurs - some legit, most of them not - make money, and they don't pass it on to their employees.

Ultimately, I returned to Miami and earned an MBA at the University there, not because it's a top ten B-school, but because I too thought that if you want to build a life in Latin America, and you're looking for the FMN expat package... Miami MUST be the place. I mean... it is the cultural capital of Latin America. Their career center must be able to locate opportunities for professionals who speak Spanish... right?

Wrong.

Not for me, anyways. There were plenty of wealthy Colombians, Dominicans, Mexicans, etc., earning their MBA's alongside me and heading BACK to work in Dad's enterprise. One guy was returning to Bogota to get married and start an airline with his Dad (not even "middle class" Colombians can afford an MBA at the University of Miami).

But nope, nothing for me. Not for lack of searching. Hell, the Dean was a personal friend of mine...

The reality is that the expat package is going away. I can remember meeting an American at an embassy party in Caracas in the late 90's: she was working for Bell Telephone. She had the full ride... six digits, a free, luxurious apartment... it was a "hardship" for her.

Companies have gotten smarter. Much smarter! Why should they pay all that money when they can get a well educated Colombian from Los Andes at a fraction of the price? They shouldn't. And frankly, even if you're fully fluent in Spanish... that just eliminates a weakness... it's not a "strength:" They've got fluent speakers right there. You think your degree is a huge strength: They don't see it that way.

So here's the thing. The only reason a FMN - say Goodyear, Citibank, etc. - needs a guy like you is if you are an expert on home office operations, and they really need you to bring a foreign operation in line. In otherwords, you have to go down there and fix something, train people, create something... and if you need a translator, no big deal, they'll provide you one. That's easy.

But you have to be an expert ALREADY. "I'm smart, well educated, and I learn quickly" doesn't cut it. They want the seasoned leader who knows the company already.

So to clarify a bit what "Rhydewithdis" is saying... you get the job at a company who has operations down there. You spend a few years proving yourself, and moving up the ranks. (I don't think that you have to move to Miami to do this, but it won't hurt, and Miami's a great place to be for one who loves Latin culture anyways...) Then, when the opportunity comes up IN HOUSE, you throw your hat in the ring. If you've impressed, if you've been campaigning for it... maybe it'll come your way.

But not right now it won't. If you want to move down there now, you need to take the leap and start your own business.

Sorry if this wasn't as sugary as you like. Follow your dreams, absolutely, but don't be stupid about it... I lost a LOT of savings trying to do what you are contemplating.

Wasteland

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billyb says on Nov 19, 2007, 10:51:

Good post, Wasteland.

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Chelesupercono says on Nov 19, 2007, 11:26:

One of the best post I have seen

never go to bed with someone crazier then you are, you will do it and you will regret it.......

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Man Tequila says on Nov 19, 2007, 11:28:

Thank you for posting your story, Wastelandlive. A welcome dose of reality here.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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Simon says on Nov 19, 2007, 11:40:

What's an FMN?

"DON'T FOK WITH COLOMBIA!!"-----Simon

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Man Tequila says on Nov 19, 2007, 11:44:

I would guess it to be a Spanish (French works too) acronym for multinational firm.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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Tinto (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Nov 19, 2007, 11:47:

Foreign (headquartered) multi-national?

Very good post, Wastelandlive - thanks for taking the time to write it.

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Simon says on Nov 19, 2007, 11:56:

Ah ok.... it's probably 'Firma Multi Nacional'.

"DON'T FOK WITH COLOMBIA!!"-----Simon

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christobeldawg says on Nov 19, 2007, 12:43:

Now that is the kind of informative post people come here to find, and it was very informative indeed. Thanks

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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Colombiche says on Nov 19, 2007, 12:49:

Wasteland said it like it is.

I am colombian born, canadian educated, I have a couple more years work experience than you do.

I am in the field of IT project manager. I have been searching for jobs in Colombia and the sort of money you make as an employee down there is nowhere here what I make up here. I am completely fluent in spanish (speak like a native). If you don't speak fluently, frankly, I see it being a bit harder. There are very many educated colombians in the country, we are talking about guys with masters and MBA's who will be competing with you. There are people in colombia, just as qualified as me and more (perhpas most of them just don't have the international experience) who are willing to work for a fraction of what I am willing to work for.

As colombian as though I am, I really don't think moving down to colombia to be an employee is a good idea if you are doing well elsewhere. I really can't believe I am saying this but I agree with morphus, save, save, save, live cheap, invest your american salary and then start a business inthe US that will allow you to work while spending time in Colombia. YOU HAVE THAT EDGE! I would even say open up a business Colombia and help create jobs instead of taking job..... but you have to really learn the ways of the country/culturebefore you open a business there, if you are a colombian business virgin you will get eaten alive, colombians are very shrewd and quick and they will run circles around you if you are not quick on your toes.


If you heart is really set on doing this:

a) Find a state of the art head hunter, I might be able to send you the info on a medellin head hunter my brother in law has used.

b) go there and take a course related to your field. for example, say you are working with ERP systems or whatever, take the certification course down in Bogota or medellin, that way you pay less for the course, better your spanish by studying in spanish and make contacts with people in the field who will be your classmates. Whether you cando the certification in spanish will be a good indicator of whether your spanish is good enough to survive in a colombian work environment.

Me? I'm saving, saving, saving, not eating sardines out of a can, but pretty damn near so that I can rise above the employee tide and do other things.

Either way, good luck.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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houstongal (Trustee board) says on Nov 19, 2007, 16:22:

There's some excellent doses of reality being given here. I work for a multinational company with offices in Colombia. Of all the employees we have (not much...about 250), none are Americans. All are Colombian and their English is so-so (understand that we primarily communicate in English in the company). We wouldn't go through the expense to put an expat there as it's not a "growth" area for us right now. But we do move Colombians to other parts of our company in other locations, ones that we consider to be future leaders.

I'm only commenting to echo Colombiche and wasteland's remarks that you without fluency in Spanish, you are not attractive as a candidate for *most* multinational companies in Colombia. And everyone is right....the salaries are nowhere near what you will get in the US.

"It is now official: there's no place on earth where you will not find a Peruvian band." David Sedaris

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msaucey says on Nov 19, 2007, 16:45:

Wastelandlive great summary... dc321, reality does bite... this is the truth of the matter... There is some great advice posted above, you should take it and reconsider your path.... Also, keep in mind that this forum tends to be a bit on the layed back side, but there is a lot of experience within PBH that is useful.... Sarcasm is part of the natural charm of PBH....

You will find that there are people on PBH, that used to make 50K in the US and are not at 18K on the high end, teaching vs managing....

All of my family members have graduated from Universitites in Colombia, and along with the rest of the country are having a hard time finding a job in their field... They're trying to leave Colombia to put their degrees to good use.... Yet, for some reason you think your special and should be given the extra consideration... Work your way through the ranks and then you'll possibly be able to relocate...

Happy hunting...

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

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Chelesupercono says on Nov 20, 2007, 06:08:

Hey Morphus.....television maybe not.....but you could be a Porno Star.....lol

never go to bed with someone crazier then you are, you will do it and you will regret it.......

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Chelesupercono says on Nov 20, 2007, 06:10:

Colombia is for playing.....never working....for all of the reasons stated above...

never go to bed with someone crazier then you are, you will do it and you will regret it.......

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Mr. Hollywood says on Nov 20, 2007, 07:28:

DC321, you absolutely do NOT want to be looking for jobs as a local Colombian hire. Put it this way: a person in Colombia doing a skilled management job might make $30,000 - $40,000 per year and be doing really well. That's less than starting salary for the same job in the US and WAY less than what an expat working for a multinational in Colombia will get. Given what you outline as your education and experience your best bet is exactly as outlined above: Learn more, gain more skills and position yourself to get an expat position for a foreign company doing business in Colombia. Just FYI, Colombia is a net exporter of smart, educated management types and they're not really looking to import. It's like selling sand to Saudi Arabia.

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Colombiche says on Nov 20, 2007, 08:57:

Mr H, the ones making 30 or 40k a year in colombia are way way way on top of the food chain.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Nov 20, 2007, 11:16:

Another option would be to do what my brother did. He came out of college and got a job with Price Waterhouse in Miami.

Although he technically lived in Miami, he was always in Bogota. His company paid him decently for a college grad(at the time about $50K plus bonuses) .

Everything in Bogota was on his expense account. He stayed at the best hotels and ate at the best restaurants for free. Most of the time, he wouldn't bother to go home to Miami on weekends. They would usually pay the hotel when he stayed for the weekend. If not, he would stay at a relative's place for the weekend. So, while not legally residing in Colombia, he had all the benefits of living there.

There are opportunities like this, but they are not easy to get. It really helped that he speaks, reads and writes perfect Colombian Spanish. Also, he had spent a year of college at a University in Colombia before graduating from U of Texas - Austin . Plus he is the most persistent person I know and never accepts no for an answer when he wants something.

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ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Nov 20, 2007, 11:19:

From what I've seen, it is rare to see a professional in Colombian make more than $2.000.000 - $3.000.000 COP a month unless they are working for their family or friends.

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pedro (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 20, 2007, 11:41:

jarhead says on Nov 20, 2007, 14:27:

dc321, about 4 years ago, I was thinking the way you are thinking now, I was the Director of IT for a large company in Miami, the pay was nice, but I was sick and tired of being one of the herd, living in the U.S....I did my homework, it helped that I was born in Cali Colombia, that I can speak fluent spanish, also, read and write it, it also helped that my wife was born and raised in Bogota, I thought that it would help that I had massive IT experience, a college degree, and all the IT certifications in the world (it did not), I also thought that it would help that my sister in law is Country Manager for a major U.S. based software firm (the one based in Long Island N.Y.) it did not....there was no way in hell that I could make the money that I made in Miami, here in Bogota, so I said fuck it, I'll start my own business.....Jessssusss what an eye openning experience this has been, I did my research, thought about what I liked, what my hobbies are, what could be made here in Colombia and exported to the rest of the world (no, not the white powdery substance :):):))...I finally stumbled onto a niche market...I now have a plant in Bogota, 20 employees, and a product that we export all over the first world, I say first world because the product we export is a commodity, or should we say a luxury item, not a neccesity, people in poor countries would not dream of buying our product................the point that I am trying to make with all this babbling is: maybe you should forget about working for someone else, and think about starting your own business...it is a VERY tough road, but achieving what you want to achieve now is also a VERY tough road, and (not to rain on your parade) very unlikely....regardless of the rosy picture the DANE, the president and all his clueless ministers want to paint, there is massive under employment, and VERY HIGH unemployment here in Colombia, things are not peachy king like alot of people on this site would have you believe, it is tough out there for the average person...this is STILL a third world country, with third world problems......hope this helps......

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Tinto (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Nov 20, 2007, 17:10:

Here's a job for you I/T folks...

http://www.grantierra.com/who-we-are/careers/?parentID=26

Gotta pay your dues in Calgary, Alberta, Canada (I think they have a big rodeo and it's probably a lovely place in the summer) but all their petroleum producing operations are in Colombia, Peru and Argentina. If they continue to grow maybe you can work in the Bogota office. Spanish is highly desired, so I imagine there is South American travel from the get-go.

This one doesn't have any openings posted but it might be worth a shot. It's the publicly traded Colombian subsidiary of another Canadian energy company. I started following this company in 2003 or 2004, forgot about it and 'rediscovered' it a few weeks ago. Son of a biscuit! Their stock has gone from $4 to $21 in the last six months 'cause they're finding oil in them thar hills. Coulda/woulda/shoulda...

http://www.petrominerales.com/con-careers.html

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David Pristupa says on Nov 20, 2007, 19:29:

You might consider working for a nonprofit company in the states
that has an office in Colombia. It
wouldn't pay well but with your
experience you might get a job.

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Colombiche says on Nov 20, 2007, 20:07:

Tinto I already have family in Alberta, doing great. They do have a rodeo, it's called the stampede and the place is not so bad during the summer.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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john_stark says on Nov 20, 2007, 20:49:

I love Alberta. Reminds me of Texas and Montana.

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Monpirri says on Nov 23, 2007, 10:28:

Looking for employment in Colombia? Just pick up the leading newspapers in Colombia and it does help a great deal to know Spanish.

The life spam of a taste bud is ten days

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Chelesupercono says on Nov 24, 2007, 06:35:

The only job for a Gringo in Colombia is to bring plenty of cash with him.....they do not give Gringos money here......for any reason.....lol

never go to bed with someone crazier then you are, you will do it and you will regret it.......

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rhydewithdis (☼Travelguide writer) says on Dec 11, 2007, 14:04:

john_stark says on Dec 11, 2007, 16:53:

We'll never hear from him again. I guarantee it.

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Chelesupercono says on Dec 11, 2007, 16:59:

How about a most professional PRE-PAGO?

never go to bed with someone crazier then you are, you will do it and you will regret it.......

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christobeldawg says on Dec 11, 2007, 20:22:

world's oldest profession. don't discount that fact

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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