FARC

Medellin Traveler says on Jan 6, 2008, 10:54:

Joetexan,

Welcome to PHB.

Thanks for the post. I could't even begin to imagine where Colombia would be if it weren't for the FARC.

Only time will tell.

"Huevos Rancheros en Medellin, No Quiero Taco Bell." - www.medellintraveler.com

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joetexan says on Jan 6, 2008, 10:59:

Well, last year Colombia had the third fastest growing economy in the world, after China and India. The U.S. economy grew 4.5%, and the Colombian econony 6.8%.

Spactacular diversity of natural beauty, nice people, you can drink the water, inexpensive, and just a few hours south of the U.S. Not even jet lag. Just think if Colombia had ten million tourist per year, each spending a few thousand dollars.

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Medellin Traveler says on Jan 6, 2008, 11:04:

"Just think if Colombia had ten million tourist per year, each spending a few thousand dollars."

I thought about it, alot!

The gringos are COMING!

"Huevos Rancheros en Medellin, No Quiero Taco Bell." - www.medellintraveler.com

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joetexan says on Jan 6, 2008, 11:24:

There is one other thing that needs to change. There is a saying: "Colombia has a bad reputation that Colombians make worse." Colombians very rarely sing the praises of Colombia. What a country! A whole bunch of diverse paradises of natural beauty, from the Carib to the Amazon, the Pacific to los Llanos. I was recently in Hawaii and it reminded me of the beauty of Pacific beaches, but I have never seen anywhere on the Pacific coast from Canada to Peru that matches the beauty of the Colombian coast. It is pristine because there is almost no development or even people. Way back in 1973, I lived with a family on the beach north of Bahia Solano for two months and it is completly untrampled by human habitation. It is a little hard to access, but that keeps the tourists away.

I have to do some work now, but thanks for your responses. I haven't participated on a forum board for several years, but now I've found one that interests me. I'll be a regular.

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john_stark says on Jan 6, 2008, 14:59:

The gringos are coming? Yeah, the gringo sex tourists. Read the sex web sites and you'll see Medellin is moving up on Thailand and Rio. Normal gringo tourists? Not in my lifetime, thank God.

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Jan 6, 2008, 15:08:

I'm sure Black Hawk helicopters are useful for moving ready-to-fight and injured soldiers, but as long as the FARC hides out in rugged, jungle covered territory and fights unconventionally in small groups, they'll be around for a long time to come. Doesn't matter how many billions or tens of billions in high tech hardware you throw at them.

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joetexan says on Jan 6, 2008, 15:24:

Tinto,

Even terrorists get tired of living in rat holes in the jungle. I'm sure one thing the U.S. gave Colombia that was not reported was a satellite to look for the terrorists, probably with infa-red technology to see through the jungle. Fact is, before Uribe it was dangerous to leave the city limits of Bogota and now you can drive just about anywhere. The Narcoterrorists will always be around, but most are moving to Venezuela where they are welcomed by the nutcase Chavez.

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john_stark says on Jan 6, 2008, 15:26:

They never get tired of it. They've been doing it for 40 years and they'll be doing it 40 years from now.

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Jan 6, 2008, 15:43:

I haven't a clue what spying or detection methods are useful in heavy jungle cover, but the fact remains, after 7 years of Plan Colombia and lots of military hardware gifts in the 90s, the FARC "Secretariat" is at large and supposedly 3000 kidnap victims can't be found or rescued (700 plus held by the FARC). I'm not trying to be a smart alec, but color me skeptical when it comes to some magic eye in the sky.

That said, there have been significant improvements in the last five or seven years and I truly hope the FARC rank and file get tired of living like rats some day.

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britabroad says on Jan 6, 2008, 15:46:

Very true. Your average FARC guerrilla is a physically and mentally tough little shit who believes in what he is fighting for. The inhospitable terrain that would have you and me climbing the walls after a few weeks is where he was born and bred. He´s as at home in a zancudo infested swamp in the Amazonas as we are walking down the local high street window shopping.
The only way to ´beat´them is psychologically, so they don´t want to fight anymore. How to do that is the problem. And even if FARC disbanded tomorrow, there would still be splinter groups and supporters who would take up the mantle and continue ´the struggle´.
Blackhawks and Apaches give the edge in some theatres, but they´re not the be all and end all. Men, whatever they fight for or whoever they are, have the ability to crawl out of a bombed city, destroyed stronghold, gassed village, nepalmed hut, pick up their weapon and start firing it again. Thankfully that applies to goodies as well as baddies.

Leave the big stick at home...carry a cannon!

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Nomadic Max says on Jan 6, 2008, 15:51:

joetexan, you should get your facts straight before making such comments. Try starting with wikipedia for a more balanced perspective.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FARC-EP

Obviously you're very fond of Colombia, but perhaps not fond enough. I'd also recommend reading Márquez's "One Hundred Years of Solitude".

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billyb says on Jan 6, 2008, 16:06:

"Your average FARC guerrilla is a physically and mentally tough little shit who believes in what he is fighting for."

Wrong, the average FARC guerilla was most likely forced to join at gunpoint when he or she was 13 years old and has no real idea why he/she is the jungle, killing, kidnapping and living like less than an animal, while under a death sentence if he/she decides to leave the the FARC's files.

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Jan 6, 2008, 16:09:

Any military or weapons buffs know if spy technology can find a 98F human being under thick jungle cover when the air temperature is 90F? Can it go through all those layers of vegetation and STILL find something that is only 8 degrees F different than its surroundings?

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britabroad says on Jan 6, 2008, 16:48:

Bily B,
I don´t agree. While the latest figures claim that up to 20% of FARC combattants are aged under 18, and no doubt some are ´press-ganged´into service, or fight because they´re family are under threat etc, many of them volunteer for a number of reasons.
I know some ex FARC guys who have renounced the organisation and now hold normal jobs. They knew exactly what they were letting themselves in for and why.
Some of this, "They´re all doing it because they´re made to" stuff is what certain politicians and media outlets say to make us all feel like we´re just fighting a load of misled kids that don´t pose any real threat. Don´t detract from the intelligence of the average Colombian, who is actually just as able to make a considered decision as the rest of us.There are FARC guys who have been fighting in shit conditions for years because they want to.
Also, this doesn´t take away the fact that many of them are physically and mentally tough, and prepared to go into firefights against a trained professional army. Without a certain degree of toughness and belief in why they´re doing that, they´d just curl up into a ball and piss themselves - which many of them obviously don´t.

Leave the big stick at home...carry a cannon!

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Nomadic Max says on Jan 6, 2008, 16:48:

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Robert Jorge says on Jan 6, 2008, 22:40:

Tinto, the answer is "yes". We (the US and the people we share the technology and resources with) have the means to see through a jungle canopy in 90 degree heat. Even in Vietnam, the "Puff the Magic Dragon' planes that were converted to rain lead on the Ho Chi Minh trail at night were able to know what was going on. They "sighted in", using many things, including ground vibrations and sounds that were picked up by previously dropped detection devises.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

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Robert Jorge says on Jan 6, 2008, 22:44:

This is a quick video of the planes I am talking about. They are all stationed here at Hurlburt Field, part of the Eglin AFB reservation, in the panhandle of Florida.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

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Mr. Hollywood says on Jan 7, 2008, 14:50:

Don't forget something else, which is that there are a lot of human beings out there in those remote places who aren't the FARC. So you can't just go around id'ing warm bodies and dropping bombs on them, even if the technology is there.

Where the FARC is screwed is that they eventually need to communicate with each other and the world at large. You can bet that every satellite phone call that goes out of Colombia is monitored. It ain't easy being the FARC these days.

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Sr Tertius says on Jan 7, 2008, 15:31:

"Don't forget something else, which is that there are a lot of human beings out there in those remote places who aren't the FARC."

When people need to be reminded of this, is because the discussion has gone to subterranean levels.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Jan 7, 2008, 16:12:

If something like 40% of Colombia is national park land, then I'd post a big sign saying the park is closed. Ha-ha. Any object in the park that fits the infrared profile of a human being may be killed by rapid reaction forces, machine guns mounted on light aircraft or whatever can fit inside a C-130 gunship.

Frankly, I don't think infrared technology exists that can pinpoint humans in a hot jungle. And if it does, the Colombians don't have it.

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joetexan says on Jan 8, 2008, 08:43:

Having no military expertise, I have no idea what can be done with a satellite. I do recall that before the Iraq war, it was reported that satellite optics can read the license plate of a car on earth. What I do know is that the security situation is 100% better than when Pastrana was president and negotiated the future of Colombia with these terrorist cowards.

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