Family back in Colombia and the "image" they believe the U.S to be

Miguel says on Dec 24, 2004, 13:50:

Interesante I just finished talking with a caleño that immigrated to the USA four years ago. He was a journalist in Cali and had a good friend kidnapped by you know who. He mentioned the kidnapping in his column...nothing more than that he was hoping his friend would be released, and in a matter of hours he received a visit from you know you, threatening phone calls, being followed, etc; he left his country after a month of this. He works his ass off here; he does not like the pace of life in the USA; he lives with a gringa that is uncomfortable when he speaks Spanish with his friends---and when he mentions he wants to show her Colombia, she assumes she will be
kidnapped and killed there. The guy has been all over Colombia and loves his homeland; he just did what he had to do. Is he happy here? I really don't know; he is thankful and he is alive. Pero a decir verdad, el es Colombiano y quieres vivir alli, porque tienes la tierra en su sangre. I hope your cousins make their decisions con ojos abiertos...suerte.

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 24, 2004, 14:15:

Let 'em come. According to the NY Times, three million Mexicans with their parrots and cheap lawn furniture can't be wrong. Why don't they see a future in Colombia? (I don't really care but I am asking to be polite.) We had a thread here not long ago about how everyone was moving back to Colombia and everyone wants to go back to Colombia and life is great. I hope you aren't contradicting the people who posted on that thread. They'll be pissed when they find out!

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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miamimike says on Dec 24, 2004, 20:34:

The Reality of Life in the USA Living here in Miami-I see the plight daily of many Immigrants, not only from Colmbia but worldwide. Many immigrants come here with an idea of life that is not based in reality. Yes there are oppurtunities here if you are Qualified, have the correct visas(before you come to the US) and a good supply of cash to tide you over in the transition period. Resove these problems before you come--they cause a lot of stress and they will not resolve themselves by some miracle-they usually only worsen. Forget about coming here with a tourist visa and then working illegally--if you are caught, it deportationville and a lifetime exclusion from ever returning to the USA in all probability. Tourits visas mean just that-vacation, fun but not to work and return on or before the visa expires. Visa Overstays-probably a 5 yr. exclusion and your record is flagged for violations so probably no visa ever again. Things have really changed since 9/11 in the USA-I worked at the Infamous Federal Krome Detention Center for 6 years(here in south florida) Do NOT let anyone tell you that its OK to work without papers legally you will never get caught--I personally saw 100s of folks rounded up for working illegally and deported-usually after a lenghty detention period in Krome--it is an extremely humiliating experience for a professional such as an attorney, nurse. teacher,ect. Families suffer-most parents have to work 2 jobs minimally and the kids get neglected and juvenile delinquincy rates sore here in south florida. Many families get caught up in attempting to compete with the jones--big houses, cars ect they can ill afford. I notice this situation a lot with Colombain immigrants. They want to maintain a Lavish Lifestyle they can ill afford--causes a lot of stress--better to live simply without stress. I have a Colombian Ladyfriend--she pays $1800 monthly for a fancy apartment,$400 for utilities, brand new Luxury car--her money is evaporating fast yet she refuses to give up the lifestyle she had in Colombia where it was much cheaper and before she divorced a millionaire spouse in Medellin. It is a big adjustment and young kids seem to manage the change but after 35-very difficult. Think long and hard before you make a move.

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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RolaParaTodaLaVida says on Dec 25, 2004, 21:31:

comments in spanish if anyone can add a comment or a story in spanish it would help and I can email this site to my cousins.
thank you

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suzannyo says on Dec 26, 2004, 04:31:

Trabaje con muchas familias sin documentos.... Bueno, soy una gringa y trabajadora social que vive en Michigan. Trabaje' con muchas familias de Mexico y de Guatemala quienes son viviendo aca sin los documentos legales para trabajar y vivir aca. La mayoria con quien trabaje' vinieron porque tienen nin~os especiales y no pudieron recibir los servicios que necesitaban en sus paises. La situacion es muy dificil aca para familias indocumentados. Muchas de estos familias estan aca y estan sufriendo mucho para obtener los necesidades basicas de sus familias (donde vivier, comida, ropa, servicios,etc). No se como es la situacion en otros partes del EU, pero en Michigan por lo menos, es dificil conseguir un trabajo que paga bien si uno no tiene sus documentos y si uno no habla el ingles. Y desunfortunadamente, aunque una persona tiene su diplomado/licensia del otro pais, normalmente no esta reconocido aca...por ejemplo, un medico en Colombia puede venir aca y normalmente no pueden trabajar inmediatamente como medico...tendrian que estudiar aca otra vez... Los trabajos que gente indocumentados puede conseguir aca son trabajos como lavadoro de platos en un restaurante, trabajador en una fabrica, y trabajador en los campos cosechando los vegetales y frutas...

Los nin~os que vienen pueden recibir una educacion, pero los servicios de salud que son muy costosos (Medicaid, medicos, dentistas), y los apoyos del gobierno como "food stamps", ayuda con arriendo, y todos estos tipos de programacion del gobierno solamente son para los ciudadanos y los que son aca legalmente.

Las familias siempre estuvieron/estan preocupados sobre dinero, trabajo y tienen miedo de ser deportados. Muchos que llegan aca sin documentos me dicen que tienen ganas de regresar de sus paises porque la cultura, el estilo de vida aca, el falto de empleo adequado, y todo lo demas ha sido muy dificil por ellos. Conoci' a una mexicana la semana pasada que regreso a Mexico por estos razones anteayer.

Gente normalmente ve los EU como paraiso...esto no es la verdad; es el mismo como cuando los gringos siempre piensan que Colombia es un pais demasiado peligroso y que todos consuman drogas...los dos ideas son falsos.

No digo todas estas cosas para asustarte, sino para que piensas bien antes de venirte. La vida aca no es lo que te ves en las peliculas...todo no es facil....

Buenas suerte....

Susana

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antonnia says on Dec 26, 2004, 04:54:

yep my boyfriend came here thinking he would have an easy time. but he feels he's wasted 3 yrs of his life because all he did was work 16 hours a day to get by. he cries all the time because he misses home.. :( and that goes for alot of other people that come here.

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miamimike says on Dec 26, 2004, 08:20:

Suzzannyo--Aconsejos Buenos Tu habla la verdad arriba en tu foro. Yo soy un Gringo tambien y como yo vivo aca en Miami lo vi diario las tristezas de las familias immigrantes. Si eres un Cubano, la transicion o paso es much mas facil(solomente para los cubanos). Ellos vienen aca bajo el "Cuban Freedom Act of 1967 y tambien el "Wet foot-dry foot" ley. Para ellos(cubanos) todo es posible--ayuda gobeirno con Renta, Seguro, College Tuition,papeles(legal) de Tranbajo y mas importante--Residencia Permenente despues Un ano y un dia. Con todo los beneficios--no es facil para los cubanos aqui en miami. Hay que ver todas las trampas en los calles aqui en miami y new york city. Immigrantes se paga los abagados falsos(ladrones)mucho plata para legaliarze su "Status" aqui en verdad usualamente no hizo nada de valor. Como Suzannayo escribio arriba, piensas bien antes de venirte. Buena Suerte.

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 26, 2004, 09:54:

You're absolutely right, Antonnia, a lot of people who come to this site are always crying. The gringo millionaires, their friend Greg, the guy with the high-waters. Muy deprimido grupo.

Oh, you meant the country, not the site! Geez, sorry about that. I cry whenever I think of my Inuit family that I left on Baffin Island. Life was hard there but at least we had the polar bears trying to eat us all the time and the little baby seal pups that we could club to death. It makes me want to cry just thinking about it. If only I had a little baby seal pup that I could club to death right now.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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ColombianoX says on Dec 26, 2004, 11:27:

"he lives with a gringa that is uncomfortable when he speaks Spanish with his friends---and when he mentions he wants to show her Colombia, she assumes she will be
kidnapped and killed there."

Why does he even live with this person who is obviously a xenophobe who looks down upon his culture? Is this guy dumb or what? Why put yourself throught that?


ColombianoX

'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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Miguel says on Dec 26, 2004, 14:30:

Colombiano X I was thinking the same thing while talking with him; he is a very bright guy, and a hard worker. Why he would endure that treatment is beyond me.

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 26, 2004, 15:42:

You guys are right. He should kill her and dismember her body. She wouldn't even have to go to Colombia. He could do it right here.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Miguel says on Dec 26, 2004, 16:44:

Phone Home UC I miss your great insights and opinions. In your current mode, I think you can drop the disclaimer. That's a given. Ojala que te mejores pronto.

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isaactraveler says on Dec 26, 2004, 19:48:

This is actually a good string, stay on topic please I like this string. In this last week that we now KNOW that Angelica is coming, almost all my thoughts are now:

School for 5yr old Danny(ESL vs day care until next fall, then regular school)
Night school for her to take English and basics
Another car
New bed

But mainly, I am cementing relationships with my family and their families, because I don't want her feeling that she is alone here. I am trying to cover all my bases so she can adjust here and be happy. I will change my habits so that we spend more time with family. I can see from what I read here, and what I know about her, that this is important.

maybe I just need stuff to stress over.

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 26, 2004, 22:53:

I hope you are not doing anything based on any opinions you have received from this site. You could go to the nearest mental hospital and get better advice. Of course you should know by now that anyone who married a woman who doesn't speak English is a complete moron. Let's hope Angelica learns fast to satisfy the PBH imposter posters. Otherwise you're dead meat, dude. You'll have to adopt some kind of goofy disclaimer and go underground. You may end up with an inflatable doll and a slightly used photo of Monica Belluci.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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isaactraveler says on Dec 27, 2004, 05:08:

not true Gringo and I am not trying to "change her mind" I am trying to make the change less stressful by anticipating some problems.

What I said was I am painfully aware that I am less social than she is and "I" need to change. However I am social, and just have to play less on the computer. The holidays were perfect to mend fences, eat food with family and talk about the future to come.

People change when they really want something. And I will do what it takes. As to getting advice here, It was because of people like Utopia that I learned about the Fiancee visa and how to get it. Also how to fill it out, who to see, and time frame. along the way, I also learned about relationships, failed and successful. It is more a question of realistic changes, and not setting impossible goals.

Also, I have learned to weed out the imbeciles on this site that like to antagonize people -from the ones that really care.

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RolaParaTodaLaVida says on Dec 27, 2004, 09:21:

stay to the topic why do you come in to this topic if you think its a waste?
im trully interested in showing my family different scenarios. good or bad about life in the U.S
but if you think giving you opinion or your input is a waste then dont write anything.
but if someone out there truly has something to contribute i would like to listen.

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isaactraveler says on Dec 27, 2004, 10:29:

while you stand there and wave the american flag while the Star Spangled Banner is playing in the back ground. PLEASE dont confuse patriotism with bigotry. I love the USA, but I do not agree with many of its policies. That aside, I am realistic as well.

I really hate when someone spews garbage then hides behind "patriotism" or religion.

America is a hard place to come to ON YOUR OWN. It is a great place to learn new things and create a new life. There is more money here, that is true, but I firmly believe that Colombia is unspoiled and probably a better place to raise children. If it was possible for me to earn a decent living there, I would probably move there today.

Gringo, why do over half of all your posts eschew racism, bigotry or just anarchy in general? I was actually thinking you had some interesting things to say for a while there.

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ColombianoX says on Dec 27, 2004, 10:31:

"For example learning English, 40% of Miami's population does not speak English. How would you Colombians feel if a bunch of Gringo's, 40% of the population of Bogota for example spoke only English and expected you to speak it here. I think you would not like this? "

Spanish was spoken in Miami (and Florida for that matter) long before any english, so why should it surprise you that so many people speak spanish there? If this is a problem for you, the solution is simple, just don't come to Miami!

CX

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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isaactraveler says on Dec 27, 2004, 11:01:

racist, insane, just plain batty maybe you are seriously a kook.

I suspect you must argue with yourself when your dial-up goes down.

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RolaParaTodaLaVida says on Dec 27, 2004, 17:29:

Learning Ingles I agree foreigners should learn English. BUT Americans should understand the reason why many have a hard time learning it.
I moved to N.Y in 1982 at that time I was one of 5 students in my E.S.L class. The American kids were intrigued by us. They spoke to us loud and would repeat their sentences to "help" us understand. Soon I would write out sentences and soon after I was able to communicate in fluent English. I was nine then. That is the perfect age to learn a different language.
On the other hand my parents, aunts/uncles and older cousins they had a very tough time learning. The jobs they found were in house keeping in offices/hospitals, or factories. At the jobs my family held everyone there spoke Spanish. I remember my E.S.L teacher coming to my house to teach my family. My family did take the initiative to learn but it was much harder for them as adults. (These are the stories I tell my cousins back in Colombia about America, and the immigrants that come here with out being legal or able to speak the language.)
Now living in the U.S as a foreigner...you have to learn the culture, the holidays. You have to understand why people in New York are tougher and fast pace and so on. In other states there must be some of similarities. My family came to the U.S at a time that the population of Colombian's was low. Today Latino population is rapidly growing with many agencies to help with in our community along with college and night schools to offer English classes. Even so, life can still be lonely and hard to adjust.

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JamieJ says on Dec 27, 2004, 18:37:

"Can someone please point out to me how my post above was racist?"

Well in your post you say if you work hard you can make it in America. This implies that you think all immigrants are dogs who want to do your wife when they should be cleaning the pool while you do your neighbors wife.
Let me break it down for you. "Work hard" means "work hard as a dog" so you think immigrants should be like dogs. "Cleaning" is work, which means you believe in hardship for immigrants that they should actually work, not play work, but do real work. Everyone knows work is a four letter word, so you just insulted every immigrant with a foul insistence that they should work to be successful. We know you are talking about immigrants because you use the word "Americ"� which is a secret code to exclude non-Americans, the immigrant. Since immigrants are not white this means you hate non-whites. Since it is your pool you want cleaned than that must make you the Master. Everyone knows the Master is racist. Doing your neighbors wife is just phony machismo on your part because we all know the white man would rather eat a second helping of steak than do a woman, in fact you would rather watch the immigrant do your wife while eating that steak but you can’t let that on which is where the phony machismo comes in you don’t really want to do your neighbor’s wife do you?
You know guys like you make me sick.

"This is indicative of a weak mind and the mindless seem to rule here."
It is worse than mindlessness. Some of these people actually went to college or read a book and they have just enough in their mind to give them the false impression to be adamant that they know of what they speak.

"See how if you post anything different on here you are labeled a racist!"
Well if you eliminate their means to insult than you rob them of the only way they know how to communicate.

Grinobogota
Nothing you said was out of place, bigoted or racist. You should know better to have a discussion with Colombianox (The Shame of Colombia) who is not fit to defend himself with his bizarre obsession for Colombian nationalism. The guy thinks in red, yellow and blue when the world is a spectrum of colors.

"Gringo, why do over half of all your posts eschew racism, bigotry or just anarchy in general?"
Isaactraveler, specifically what did he say that was racist?
What did he say that was bigoted?
What did he say that was anarchist?
I won’t expect 3 examples because his post was void of all three.I am not sure why you would say somthing so out of the blue.

"...but I firmly believe that Colombia is unspoiled and probably a better place to raise children. If it was possible for me to earn a decent living there, I would probably move there today."

I am not sure how anyone could say something so wrong. This is not a mater of opinion. You are contrasting the U.S with Colombia and saying Colombia is a better place to raise children.

The number one ingredient needed for raising children is having the economic means of caring for the survival necessities of life for your child. You said it was not possible for you to earn a decent living there. Doesn’t that alone make it a worse place to raise children? It is sort of like saying if the Artic was a tropical paradise I would live there. Well it is not so the idea of saying "if" does not make any sense. With 50% of Colombians living in poverty is it not difficult for them to raise children? Do you think they are saying to themselves Colombia is a great place to raise children, I just wish I could feed them?
To say what you did you must think Colombia has a better education system than the U.S. so your children can better compete with the rest of the world.
You must think Colombia has better Universities than the U.S. so your children can go as far as they like.
You must think Colombia is cleaner than the U.S. and they have better healthier standards for food and water and better medical care because you would want your child not to get sick and be properly cared for by the best if taken ill.
You must think a drive out to the country side is less risky in Colombia than the U.S. because a drive to the Amazon has less criminal risk to your children than a drive to sin city.
You must think the roads are safer in Colombia even though Colombia shows a much higher death rate per mile driven from accidents than the U.S. because you would not want you child hit by a car that did not stop at a red light.
You must think having children play in your present neighborhood at night is more dangerous than a like neighborhood in Colombia because you would not want to worry about their safety.
You must think that Colombia has much greater opportunities than the U.S because you would want your child to have as many opportunities for a bright future as possible and Colombia wins hands down.
You must think Colombia has less crime than the U.S. and you and your family are safer.
You would have to think all these things which are all ingredients in the child’s best interest.

I am not a love it or leave it as much as a love it or change it. I could care less how many people only speak Spanish in the U.S. What I don’t like is the U.S Government accommodating such choices. If business or individuals want to this that’s fine but the Government assisting the process I find incredible. It is sort of like our prisons allowing criminals to work out and become stronger in jail by lifting weights and learning how to box so they will have greater skills at intimating, hurting and avoiding capture in the future. Government’s interference just perpetuates the need not to learn.

Not everyone can make it in the U.S because it does require work and change but for those willing and able the sky is the limit.
Jamie
Engage The Exotic - Colombian Women

Jamie

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RolaParaTodaLaVida says on Dec 27, 2004, 20:37:

you are so lost i have to say ... when posting a comment...try to stay in the topic.
and you JamieJ ...you have lost the idea of this topic

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 27, 2004, 21:28:

What was the idea of the this What was the idea of this thread? Oh yeah, now I remember, it was about the 3 million Mexicans with their parrots and cheap lawn furniture.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Lionheart says on Dec 27, 2004, 21:35:

Rola I am not sure where to start, I have a different background, but it adds up to the same results. The USA is not piece of cake for foreigners.

My ex is German and we lived in Germany for quite a while together. We took a 3 month trip to the USA in 1990 and got married in Las Vegas. During that trip she got bit by the USA virus and kept hounding me to move to the USA. I have both citizenships, so it was no problem. I warned her about the challenges she would encounter once actually living and working there. But she would not listen. You need to understand that Germany has a very good social network with decent medical insurance etc. She wanted to give all up for the American Dream. This dream turned into a nightmare.

After a few years she was americanized and changed her ways completely. Then the high-tech fall-out hit us several times in a row. Then divorce hit with all its side-effects. All security was gone with the wind. I won't go into the grisly details here. Just as a dish washer can become millionaire here, it is even easier for a manager to become a hamburger flipper in a fast food chain within a few months.

These past 5 years have shown that the USA is not the country of golden opportunities anymore. It has become a country of bitter survival. What makes it worse than in other countries is that the close family ties ceased to exist in the past 20-30 years. All was all about making money and self-finding egoism. Personal wealth and independence from anything was the key. Now that this world is crumbling there is nobody left to turn to ... the families ceased to exist and do not provide fallback. Of course there are exceptions, but in general this is my observation.

With so many US Americans desperate for 2nd and 3rd jobs now I also notice a new racism growing against those holding the jobs nobody used to want to work in. I hear angry comments about damn Mexicans, Koreans, Chinese, Cubans occupying these jobs ... send them all home! Plus they are the fault for all the terrorist attacks. Pure ignorance.

This is not an environment I would encourage to bring any foreigner to. I wish I had good resources on all this in Spanish, maybe somebody else can help.

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miamimike says on Dec 29, 2004, 09:22:

Immigrating outside of Colombia If I were coming from the south looking to immigrate to the North I would Bypass the USA and go to Canada. They offer more of a security net-medial insurance,ect. I see the family breakdown here amongst immigrant families bigtime as both family members have to work, at least two jobs to make it financially and as a result, very little time for the family and kids. Here in Miami, we sadly have an extremely high rate of Juvenile Delinquincy in the Latino neighborhoods. Many of these folks do speak passable english and with work consuming all their time and energy there is little time to study and learn. Even the Cuban Immigrants, with all the Benefits they recieve above the other immigrant families, have a difficult time. Single friends of mine here seem to faring much better as they have the time to pursue various langauge and retraining options. We also have an agency here in South Miami that translates and evaluates college credits conferred from universities outside the US. Also the Miami dade school system has a dept. for evaluating high credits earned from secondary scholls outside the US. In this respect, alarge city like miami can be of great assistance to an immigrant.

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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